How to deal with the language barrier ?

[Anotherkiwi]

Like, she sounds very good.

Yup...she's adapted VERY well!

[JR]

How to deal with the language barrier ?
 
Learn to laugh, A LOT ))

[ghost of moon goddess]

Like, she sounds very good.

Now that she is her third year of total immersion language schooling she sounds fine, but who knows, maybe two years ago she sounded like Tania from Zhytomyr - who's just started to learn English



It's never too late to start learning!

[Gator]

Now that she is her third year of total immersion language schooling she sounds fine, but who knows, maybe two years ago she sounded like Tania from Zhytomyr - who's just started to learn English.

With her free spirit, Tania will do just fine.
In fact, she seems like a lot of fun now. 

[mendeleyev]

Mendeleyev, How long have you been studying Russian? I'm trying to figure out how long it really takes to get to the B level on the CEFR, with disciplined study and exposure to the language, of course. I've studied Russian for about 3 months and I am close to the A level. I note that some of the Ukrainian girls I've spoken with on the phone tell me that they have been studying English for, say, 3 years, then they neglect to mention that they learned basic English as a child in school. That is a huge advantage! Here I am starting from scratch-I only knew two words in Russian "vodka" and "borsch" before I started studying. When I studied cognitive science at college, one evolutionary psychologist Steven Pinker wrote that after age 15 it is very difficult to become bi-lingual, because those areas of the brain have been devoted to other tasks (use it or lose it). So maybe a realistic approach is, if learning a second language late in life, the motivation must be really strong. Just curious what your thoughts are...

Noelscott, thanks for the compliment. I do feel that several others, Rasputin and Ed being just two examples, along with the esteemed Russian ladies who truly grace a forum consisting of mainly guys, are much more qualified than myself.

First, let me congratulate you on your dedicated study. This is so difficult in our daily lives and requires a great deal of personal commitment. There is no shortcut however and it is so true that the ladies in our lives appreciate every effort we make to learn because it indicates a desire to understand her at the heart level. We show her respect and draw her closer when even some basic phrases are learned and practiced.

Real fluency is often never achieved but the attempt requires time living in the culture in which the language is used. Some so-called experts say 5-8 years depending on the individual. To illustrate how long it takes to be "fluent" please allow me to give an example. Recently Mrs M and I were hosting an art exhibition of her work and a small group of German speaking businessmen came by. She had studied German years ago in school and while she isn't fluent she is able to carry on a basic conversation.
 
 Later that evening after they had left she said that these gentlemen "had very much appreciate my speaking German." My smile must have clued her in because even though she has studied English many years, it is difficult to completely master the grammar of yet another language (she converses in several). So we had an enjoyable conversation and chuckled our way thru some ways to incorporate "appreciative" and "had appreciated" into her English usage. For some reason any word ending in "ed" seems difficult for her to form and pronounce. In fact, the word "ending" was a challenge for a long time.
 

 

My motivation is cool points. I think you get automatic cool points when one makes an honest effort to learn about another person's culture and language, and it can help bring you into their inner circle.

 Absolutely! Mrs M often helps me because she sees my interest as part of understanding her life. Your lady will help you as well and if you find a gal who isn't interested in helping you when you're clearly trying to learn her language, that would be a big red flag in my book. Were the shoe on the other foot I think a gal should be concerned if a guy isn't trying to learn at least some of the basics.

Some years ago I decided to learn how to make love "in Russian." Experts who deal with human emotions often say that one's native language is the language of the heart. To use the language of her heart in tender expressions and the most intimate moments of love has yielded great relationship rewards. I have found that Mrs Mendeleyeva greatly respects my efforts even though it could be argued that a general understanding of Russian is necessary for the work I do daily.

Most of us who learn later in life tend to think in our native language and then translate. The girl Tanya in the video did just that several times. It was fun watching express "You are very best man. Boys" as this is a great example of any of us when we haven't yet learned the definite articles and the struggle we face when translating as we speak--she had to think about using "man" or whatever word might be correct for "young man" or "guy" and blurted out "boys." That is us as we learn too!

By the way, watching videos is one of our favourite learning tools. Start watching Russian movies with English subtitles (YouTube has hundreds) and watch/listen to Russian music videos. These activities teach us to recognize words and to learn how those unique sounds are formed. This delightful young lady's short video was very instructive because it taught us how to she pronounces the name of her city, Zhitomir (Житомир). Listen carefully as just 12 seconds in she says Zhitomir (Житомир).

(I've thought zhiTO but it sounded like she spoke zhiTA so maybe it is the difference in Ukrainian vs Russian or just my ears playing tricks again. Perhaps one of ladies can set us straight.)

   

[ghost of moon goddess]

(I've thought zhiTO but it sounded like she spoke zhiTA so maybe it is the difference in Ukrainian vs Russian or just my ears playing tricks again. Perhaps one of ladies can set us straight.)
 

There is no difference, it must sound the same - [ʒɪˈtɔ] -  in Russian and Ukrainian.
FYI, Zhitomir is  the transliteration of the town name in Russian, the Ukrainian transliteration is Zhytomyr

Clearly she "anglicizes" the pronunciation of her name     Таня: the vowel Я  should really be pronounced like YA in the word "yard". In fact it sounds like she speaks TA-NI-YA  (or just my ears are playing tricks on me  )

[SANDRO43]

...how to she pronounces the name of her city, Zhitomir (Житомир). Listen carefully as just 12 seconds in she says Zhitomir (Житомир). (I've thought zhiTO but it sounded like she spoke zhiTA so maybe it is the difference in Ukrainian vs Russian or just my ears playing tricks again. Perhaps one of ladies can set us straight.)

Clearly she "anglicizes" the pronunciation of her name     Таня: the vowel Я  should really be pronounced like YA in the word "yard". In fact it sounds like she speaks TA-NI-YA  (or just my ears are playing tricks on me  )

My unladylike ears hear zhi-TO and TA-nya .

[mendeleyev]

There is no difference, it must sound the same - [ʒɪˈtɔ] -  in Russian and Ukrainian.

Thank you, Ghost!

 

FYI, Zhitomir is  the transliteration of the town name in Russian, the Ukrainian transliteration is Zhytomyr

(bold added)

Yes, and thanks again. I commonly use the Russian on Житомир as it's just easier for me to keep straight since the y causes my brain to want to come up with a "u" sound.

[ghost of moon goddess]

My unladylike ears hear zhi-TO ...

I would venture to bet that the unladylike ears owner possesses perfect pitch ! 

My unladylike ears hear  TA-nya

Try again 

Thank you, Ghost!

My pleasure

[SANDRO43]

 

I would venture to bet that the unladylike ears owner possesses perfect pitch ! 

Unfortunately not, as a young man I considered myself hopelessly off-key in music, but when I started playing the guitar as a self-study at about 30, I noticed that having a harmonic background helped me considerably. Then in 1998 I joined an amateur a cappella choir for 13 years:

...and discovered that over time my intonation improved dramatically, albeit NOT to perfect-pitch level - our choirmaster maintained that totally tone-deaf people do not exist, it's a matter of training and exercise and one'll eventually get (some) pearls out of sows' ears, too . 

An interesting study conducted years ago showed that about 40+% of music students in China possessed perfect pitch, as opposed to about 20+% in a comparable US group, and attributed the difference to the fact that Chinese languages are tonal, hence aural discrimination is exercised quite early in life.

Try again

Is that video supposed to show how to pronounce TANYA correctly ? People don't sing in the same way they speak .

[Gator]

Then in 1998 I joined an amateur a cappella choir for 13 years:

Sandro,  I believe I have told you before that I know a 46-yo beauty who sings in a travelling cappella choir.  Sky blue eyes, naturally curly blond hair, and a happy warm personality."  She sincerely likes men in our age group, and she can travel to Italy   You are in your golden years - enjoy them.

[chivo]

I have a hard time dealing with this as i always have many things to say. What does everyone recommend? The girl i'm talking to is great in emails when she has the time to understand everything. But, when its comes to skype it hits a wall but, the conversation was still enjoyable. I've got some ideas but, i'd love to here what everyone else says. In the meantime i'm going to get a dictionary and do some learning. Maybe we can help each other out with learning in the process.

One thing you should know is that over time she will adapt to your tone and cadence and understand you better. Give it time. Maybe you've read somewhere else on this forum that patience is key in developing a relationship with someone from Eastern Europe. Don't get discourage so quickly.
 
After a month or two she will become much more comfortable not only with how you sound, but won't be so self conscious about her mistakes. I haven't met a Russian yet who didn't understand me better, much better after a month or two.
 
So, things will be a little uneasy like many a relationship at first. Add to the fact the language barrier and I feel your pain. But, one of my favorite people here could barely communicate with me at first and now, well she's one of my favorite people to be around. Hang in there.
 
 

[chivo]

and just as a follow up; always speak slowly, ditch the slang and cutesy BS and be sure to always fully pronounce every work you're saying.

[acctBill]

Follow the narrators who speak in Special English:
http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish

Check this story http://www.voanews.com/learningenglish/home/american-life/What-Moves-America-Transportation-Trends-in-the-United-States-137859433.html
You can definitely hear the difference between the perfect speech of the narrators who speak in Special English and the sloppy speech of the real people.

The narrators of the program have had special training and probably done several practice runs to get their dialogue just right.  They're speaking far slower than regular speech and enunciating far clearer than any native English speaker. 

[ghost of moon goddess]

People don't sing in the same way they speak .

Well, it's true sometimes... 

[SANDRO43]

Barbra has superb control of her singing voice, though. Here...

...she holds a pure note (A5, IINM) for 4 seconds from 2'27" to 2'31", before 'degrading' to vibrato until 2'37"- a solo of 10 seconds on the same note, remarkable .

[Faux Pas]

One thing you should know is that over time she will adapt to your tone and cadence and understand you better. Give it time. Maybe you've read somewhere else on this forum that patience is key in developing a relationship with someone from Eastern Europe. Don't get discourage so quickly.
 
After a month or two she will become much more comfortable not only with how you sound, but won't be so self conscious about her mistakes. I haven't met a Russian yet who didn't understand me better, much better after a month or two.
 
So, things will be a little uneasy like many a relationship at first. Add to the fact the language barrier and I feel your pain. But, one of my favorite people here could barely communicate with me at first and now, well she's one of my favorite people to be around. Hang in there.

+1 Good post chivo. I only add, patience. If you don't have any, get some or get out. In most instances, she's working much harder to communicate with you than you with her. Help her as much as you can with patience.

[Chicagoguy]

I only add, patience.

For me,aka Mr. Patience, that has been what I HAD to learn.
But only for my wife 

[Faux Pas]

For me,aka Mr. Patience, that has been what I HAD to learn.
But only for my wife 

It's much better to learn it early on because you're going to need a hellva lot more as it as the relationship progresses 

[ghost of moon goddess]

...she holds a pure note (A5, IINM) for 4 seconds from 2'27" to 2'31", before 'degrading' to vibrato until 2'37"- a solo of 10 seconds on the same note, remarkable .

That's nothing! 
She would go to all lengths; she would move like a heat-seeking missile honing in on its target and recognizing NO barriers! 
Because... She is a Woman in Love!
And this is truly amazing and inspiring,
IMO 

[noelscot]

Noelscott, thanks for the compliment. I do feel that several others, Rasputin and Ed being just two examples, along with the esteemed Russian ladies who truly grace a forum consisting of mainly guys, are much more qualified than myself.

First, let me congratulate you on your dedicated study. This is so difficult in our daily lives and requires a great deal of personal commitment. There is no shortcut however and it is so true that the ladies in our lives appreciate every effort we make to learn because it indicates a desire to understand her at the heart level. We show her respect and draw her closer when even some basic phrases are learned and practiced.

Real fluency is often never achieved but the attempt requires time living in the culture in which the language is used. Some so-called experts say 5-8 years depending on the individual. To illustrate how long it takes to be "fluent" please allow me to give an example. Recently Mrs M and I were hosting an art exhibition of her work and a small group of German speaking businessmen came by. She had studied German years ago in school and while she isn't fluent she is able to carry on a basic conversation.
 
 Later that evening after they had left she said that these gentlemen "had very much appreciate my speaking German." My smile must have clued her in because even though she has studied English many years, it is difficult to completely master the grammar of yet another language (she converses in several). So we had an enjoyable conversation and chuckled our way thru some ways to incorporate "appreciative" and "had appreciated" into her English usage. For some reason any word ending in "ed" seems difficult for her to form and pronounce. In fact, the word "ending" was a challenge for a long time.
 

 
 Absolutely! Mrs M often helps me because she sees my interest as part of understanding her life. Your lady will help you as well and if you find a gal who isn't interested in helping you when you're clearly trying to learn her language, that would be a big red flag in my book. Were the shoe on the other foot I think a gal should be concerned if a guy isn't trying to learn at least some of the basics.

Some years ago I decided to learn how to make love "in Russian." Experts who deal with human emotions often say that one's native language is the language of the heart. To use the language of her heart in tender expressions and the most intimate moments of love has yielded great relationship rewards. I have found that Mrs Mendeleyeva greatly respects my efforts even though it could be argued that a general understanding of Russian is necessary for the work I do daily.

Most of us who learn later in life tend to think in our native language and then translate. The girl Tanya in the video did just that several times. It was fun watching express "You are very best man. Boys" as this is a great example of any of us when we haven't yet learned the definite articles and the struggle we face when translating as we speak--she had to think about using "man" or whatever word might be correct for "young man" or "guy" and blurted out "boys." That is us as we learn too!

By the way, watching videos is one of our favourite learning tools. Start watching Russian movies with English subtitles (YouTube has hundreds) and watch/listen to Russian music videos. These activities teach us to recognize words and to learn how those unique sounds are formed. This delightful young lady's short video was very instructive because it taught us how to she pronounces the name of her city, Zhitomir (Житомир). Listen carefully as just 12 seconds in she says Zhitomir (Житомир).

(I've thought zhiTO but it sounded like she spoke zhiTA so maybe it is the difference in Ukrainian vs Russian or just my ears playing tricks again. Perhaps one of ladies can set us straight.)

 

Yep, I just got a big green flag due in part to my language studies. I go to Kyiv-Odessa-Sevastopol in June, so I'll post a trip report. Speaking of women posters on RWD, are the Ukrainian women numerically stronger than the Russian women, or what?
::steps back if a flame war starts over who has claim to Sevastopol--the Ukrainians or Russians::

[onus]

Oh gosh, maybe i should have checked back to this thread sooner. Looks like i'm a little behind. Quite the conversation went on without me. Sorry if i missed some points so many posts to read. 

Patience is something i surly have and need a lot of already. In some ways i appreciate the slower pace. Plus, i'm not getting anything that is discouraging me. The opposite is happening so i'll keep trying and moving along.

I guess i should say i didn't start this endeavor purposely to find someone so far away it kinda just worked out that way. I was just trolling sites as i do normally. I ran across her and i just knew i had to talk to her. Now i'm here.

 I haven't talked on skype with her since last weekend. I have just about the worst schedule known to man. I usually don't get home until 9pm on most nights sometimes ten, lucky if i get home earlier. I think that a tad bit too early for her.  Hopefully we can talk this weekend.

I think i'm gonna learn the Cyrillic alphabet first so i can at least transliterate the words / or hopefully get them so i can at least understand what the sounds should be in my mind.  Seems this is the starting point from the links anyway. She said she would love to help me with learning the language.

To go off topic and quite random. She said she would bake me a cake after i was being sweet. Can't say anyone has offered that before unless its my birthday or some event but, i do enjoy fresh baked goods.

[chivo]

+1 Good post chivo.

Thanks, but...
 
 

I only add, patience. If you don't have any, get some or get out. In most instances, she's working much harder to communicate with you than you with her. Help her as much as you can with patience.

Maybe I didn't make in clear enough here?
 

One thing you should know is that over time she will adapt to your tone and cadence and understand you better. Give it time. Maybe you've read somewhere else on this forum that patience is key in developing a relationship with someone from Eastern Europe. Don't get discourage so quickly.

[chivo]

That's nothing! 
She would go to all lengths; she would move like a heat-seeking missile honing in on its target and recognizing NO barriers! 
Because... She is a Woman in Love!
And this is truly amazing and inspiring,
IMO 

Or maybe she's just had the best sex ever  .
 
Barbara has arguably the sweetest sounding voice ever to grace the ears, that's for sure.

[Anotherkiwi]

...Barbara has arguably the sweetest sounding voice ever to grace the ears, that's for sure.

No way - Judith Durham (The Seekers) has, for me and many others, the greatest (and sweetest) pop voice ever.