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Author Topic: Going to Kiev!!!  (Read 8688 times)

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Offline Photo Guy

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Going to Kiev!!!
« on: March 01, 2005, 07:52:19 AM »
Hi all. I TRIED to book a roundtrip ticket to Kiev from Phoenix
last night on the net. After a couple of attempts at filling out
the online forms at NWA/KLM, I ended up phoning their toll free
number instead. Online, I had finished filling out a long form (twice)
and then got the message 'That flight is not available, pick another.'
Crap!! And that came after I had chosen my seating assignments
and everything. Idiotic.

But, now it is all set! ...Am I nuts!? I am going to fly to Kiev in April to
meet a woman I barely know, or do I? I'm not expecting too much.
I've read whiskey's posts. Yikes. I hope Larisa shows up. If not,
I'll just turn it into a unique fun vacation with my trusty Canon 20D.

I actually do think she'll show up. She's all excited that I'm coming.
(Innuendo?) I met her thru AnastasiaWeb, so maybe she'll ask me
for $600 for her transportation to Kiev from Mariupol,  ha, but I'm
not cynical...  Actually, she has NEVER asked or implied that she
needed money from me. And what scammer would send a snapshot
of herself and her mom in front of a church?

In our email exchanges, she has specifically answered most of
my questions - and has done a fine job of making me think SHE
is actually corresponding with me, rather than some agency office
person. If it's deception, she's good at it, -VERY good.

My plan is to rent a two bedroom flat in Kiev for three or four days,
and then if we have chemistry, we'll go to her home town, the
bucolic seaside cute city of Mariupol. (pronounced marry Opal) ..Maybe I'll nick name her 'Opal'.  ..Nah. I like 'Larisa'.

How is Kiev in the middle of April? As for airfare, I ended up paying
$746 total, from Phoenix.

There won't be any problem with bringing a digital camera
through the airports, will there? I'm looking forward to taking
MANY photos while in Ukraine, Kiev and the pretty seaside resort
town of Mariupol. Are oxygen masks allowed through customs?
Should I bring water from home or can I buy it there locally?
What kind of shoes look Ukrainian? Should I wear black socks with sandals like Germans? I'm just thinking out loud here.
              Kiev, here I come!   -doug L.

Offline Elen

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Going to Kiev!!!
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2005, 08:04:20 AM »
Just curiously -  600$ are only for tickets or include the rent price of a flat for her??

(Question is not obligated for answer)

Offline Elen

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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2005, 08:07:55 AM »
Quote
Should I wear black socks with sandals like Germans?

Sandals in middle of April in Kiev??? I don't think we are so far with global warming:?

 

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2005, 08:13:52 AM »
Do not sweat it a bit.  You got a great flight price for travelling off season. What is the downside risk?  The way I see it none except for the pain in the butt flying, delays etc.  Here is why - you are going to a great place you have never been before, Kiev.  You are going to have a phenomenal time!!!   You are meeting a superior woman!!!!!   Even if things do not work out with your girl, you have a back-up plan.  You will have a wonderful time.
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline Albert

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Going to Kiev!!!
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2005, 08:18:07 AM »
To answer some of your questions:

Yes, you are nuts to go . . . . to meet only one woman.  Of course you think she will show up.  Every one thinks that . . . until they don't show up.

If you plan to go to her hometown, be aware that this will take about one day of travel each way.

The weather in Kyiv or anywhere in Ukraine in mid-April can be dicy.  It can even be dicy for the month of May.  June is the earliest  sure fire good month, for warmer weather that is.  But I have had good luck in Crimea during April and Kyiv in May.

No problem with digital camera coming through airport.

I aways carry about 4 bottles of water from USA just to have on hand until I can get settled into apartment, get to grocery store, etc.  Be aware that many of bottles of water sold in Ukraine (and Russia) are carbonated which tastes like crap.  You want to ask for 'biz gasa' which is without gas.  Be sure to double check by squeezing the bottles.  Those without gas will have quite a bit of give to them.  Those with gas will be very stiff to the squeeze.

Sandals would be pretty dumb for April weather in Ukraine.

Offline Bruce

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« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2005, 08:38:02 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/weather/world/city_guides/city.shtml?tt=TT004500

Click the above link for the weather - no problem, bring rain gear, a warm coat, hat and gloves as well as an umbrella since the weather really is variable that time of the year - big deal, you'll handle it and could actually luck out weather wise.  Bring one dark suit with you as well in case you meet her parents / wany to dress well.  Conservative black shoes will be fine.  There is no need to buy a squareish toed variety.  They already know you are a foreigner.  It is best to dress conservative, be well groomed and act politely.  Whatever you do, please do not act like the "ugly American."  That is a sure-fire way for service only to get worse. 

Please have a back-up plan.  At least have some phone numbers of guys like Jack who have an agency / personnel you can rely on in the event of initial problems.  Since a good deal of WOVO's never happen or fizzle out within a couple of days start getting agency numbers, even getting the phone numbers of other girls to call.  Kiev is a big beautiful city.  Bring your digital camera by all means.  You'll get super photo opportunities.  Just do not try to take out "relics" ie. anything older than 1950 for a trinkit, or it will be confiscated (I learned that one the hard way a number of years ago).  One thing I have learned by reading many trip reports is that some guys will go WOVO and hang with a girl they have no physical attraction with for the length of the trip etc.  Do what is best for you.  If things are not working, forget about giving the relationship more time.  Listen to your gut.  Of course I hope it will be positive the whole way, but by all means keep your big head on your shoulders.  It may be tough to do.........................

Best of luck!!!
"A word is dead when it is said, some say.  I say it just begins to live that day."  Emily Dickinson

Offline Michelangelo

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Going to Kiev!!!
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2005, 09:46:01 AM »
No problem with digitial camera

Leave the oxygen mask behind unless you want to spend lots of time being questioned :)

Everyone drinks bottled water there so you don't need to haul it in.   and actually, i like water with gas a lot...so try it.  Lots of Europeans prefer it

forget the sandles and wear boots :)

I will post some backup info you in case your Larrisa does not show...

The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

Offline Michelangelo

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Going to Kiev!!!
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2005, 09:53:50 AM »
When I got stranded in Kiev last week for two days becasue the girl I was meeting had the flu, I contacted Paul and he saved me!  He is a tour guide and intrepeter and is excellent.  He charges $7 per hour.

He took me to a great agency and I met a beautiful girl that night who was perfect.  I spent the rest of my time with her.  Here is the contact info for paul


 paul_na@ukr.net
 +38067--2832468

here is the $60 per night apartment...
« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 09:57:00 AM by Michelangelo »
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

Offline Photo Guy

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Going to Kiev!!!
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2005, 09:57:47 AM »
Quote from: Elen
Just curiously -  600$ are only for tickets or include the rent price of a flat for her??
(Question is not obligated for answer)

How dare you ask that?!  ;-)
That was supposed to be 'dry' humor. A scam price of $600 to
travel from Mariupol to Kiev.

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2005, 10:02:12 AM »
Michael,
Thanks! Interesting flat. Is that 2 bedrooms, in case we want to sleep separately the first night or two?  -doug L.  

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2005, 10:13:14 AM »
Quote from: albert
To answer some of your questions:

Yes, you are nuts to go . . . . to meet only one woman.  Of course you think she will show up.  Every one thinks that . . . until they don't show up.


What are my odds? We've been emailing since the end of November. She seems determined to meet me. She seems serious. I get the impression *I* had better show up, for her sake. Hey, I could be wrong. There are no gurantees in life and sometimes a leap of faith is required. If she thought I was interested in other
specific women, it could easily sabotage our relationship.
I'll have a plan B.  -doug
« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 10:16:00 AM by Photo Guy »

Offline Bruno

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Going to Kiev!!!
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2005, 10:41:18 AM »
Hey Dougs... for you transit from Kiev to Mariupol... don't need a lot of money and time...

You have now promotion by the interne Ukrainian airline...

http://ukraine-international.com/eng/news/lastnews-24

"Special offer from uia
[align=justify]
Enjoy the special fares for UIA flights within Ukraine!

Until 15 April 2005 fly on Ukraine International to Lviv, Simferopol and Donetsk for
ONLY UAH 150 (incl. taxes)!"


You take the plane from Kiev to Donestk... after stay just a little way by train... intern flight trip are very cheap.
[/align]

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2005, 03:33:38 PM »
Very interesting. Thanks.  -doug

Offline Turboguy

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« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2005, 04:15:04 PM »
A little tip on the water.   The caps are color coded.  When you find the water you like remember what the cap color was and it is the fastest way to find the water you want.  Personally I can't handle the stuff with gas.  I like water to taste like water.  I would not worry about taking water with you.   Leave the water, the sandals and the mask at home.

Are you crazy to go all that way to meet one gal.  Yep.  But you never know.  I have made trips to meet a lot of gals and come back thinking I should have lined up more.   I decided I wanted to meet one gal before I even saw a photo of her or even had any idea how old she was.  I did see the photo before I bought the ticket but I did just what you are doing, made a long trip to meet one gal.   When it was all said and done, I ended up engaged. 

Sometimes these gals can end up a lot different when you meet them.   I made a trip to Kiev in December primarily to meet one gal but I was meeting another while I was going.   The # 1 gal was wanting vodka at 11 am and $ 400.00 boots within a few hours of our meeting.   The one that I met just cause I was going and she happened to write when I was trying to figure out what to do with a few extra days turned out to be pretty nice.   You will know more in a few hours with her than you will in months of e-mails but if you decide she is not right just send her on her way and there are lots of ways to meet other gals while you are there. 

 

 

 

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2005, 05:43:47 PM »
Doug,

I think the general concensus is that us guys are required to pay for our ladies transportation and for the apartment. Since the women generally earn $60.00 a month I don't think she can afford train tickets and $30.00 a night for her half of the apartment. So your mentioning $600.00 is not completely off the mark except it will be more like $250.00 for her. Maybe I'm just a nice guy but I always pay 100% of her expenses.

I agree with Michael that Paul (Pavel) is a great help and the one to see while in Kiev. We have become good friends and I can honestly say Pavel is a great guy.

« Last Edit: March 01, 2005, 05:46:00 PM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2005, 09:45:09 AM »
What are you talking about?
I was joking that she's a scammer who theoretically will want
$600 for traveling from Mariupol to Kiev.

The apartment has nothing to do with that joke. I'll pay
for the flat, gifts, dinners, and the usual dating stuff.
Of course!!!  (and her travelling expenses, -which won't
amount to $600)   -doug

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2005, 09:52:12 AM »
And for myself, i go pay the money she loose at his work during my 20 days stay ( +- 200$ )... i wish her only for me during my stay, i don't wish she work... is boss agree but he don't pay her... it is normal to pay for this... she have always is monthly bill to pay !!!

Offline Son of Clyde

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« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2005, 12:01:13 PM »
Doug, I was joking too but it may not have sounded that way.

I apologize if it came off that way.

Dating someone 4,000 miles away does have some different rules that we must follow.

Hope you have a great, safe trip.
« Last Edit: March 02, 2005, 12:02:00 PM by Son of Clyde »

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2005, 07:04:35 PM »
Son of Clyde,
Hey, no problemo!
I guess I will think about reimbursing her for
her time away from work, but I'll be very careful not
to open a 'can of worms'.

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2005, 07:51:54 PM »

[line]
I guess I will think about reimbursing her for her time away from work, but I'll be very careful not to open a 'can of worms'.
[line]


Doug, pay back the lady for money used or loose is very good but don't inform them before about this... make this like a surprise at the end of trip...

And it is not sure that she loose money from his work... they have holliday pay by the boss... In my case, with Galina, it is a little other case... she have already use 3 week holliday in January for her examination at university, for the course of manager...

Normally, she have wish pay the appartment for my stay ( 200$ for 20 days )... but she have ask me if i can pay myself for the appartment... and i have agree... and at the end of the stay, i go give her some money more for the loose of work but i have never inform her about this before...

And this is certainly true for a first meeting... she need to think that you go only give her love... without money, no scammer... give her money if you wish but never inform about this before the first meeting...

Offline jb

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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2005, 07:10:32 AM »
Judging from past experience, I'd say the notion of sending *something* to the fiancée is self inflicted by most men.  After the man has actually met the girl of his dreams, and seen first hand how they live, how frugal they must be to make ends meet, and how very little extra it would cost him to make her life soooooo much better while she sits there cooling her heels awaiting the visa approval.  He generally takes it upon himself to provide some support for the girl he loves.  I believe it is also part of the courtship ritual in the FSU, boyfriends buy presents and give gifts to girls, so some of it is expected.  This is not out of the ordinary and the girls love to brag on their men.  Having something to show off to the girls is important, a new pair of shoes, boots, coat, etc., will go a long ways towards cementing the relationship.

As long as a man keeps his head and doesn't get the notion that he can buy love with his money, I don't think this is a bad thing.  Over doing things will cause a lot of problems down the road when she comes to expect a level of affluence that he may not be able to provide once she arrives in his home town.  Guys should think carefully about what amount of money he sends to his fiancée

Personally I don't see the harm in this as long as he doesn't gerd his loins with shinning armour and mount his trusty white steed and become a rescuer.  These women do not need rescuing, they really just need to see some tangible proof of your affection, something to remind them that you are real during those months between visits.

Simple as that.

Offline Photo Guy

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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2005, 09:35:37 AM »
Yes, I see what you mean. It blows my mind to see these
posts from guys who have spent thousands of dollars
on their RW/UW. It really comes across to me as 'buying love'.
Then they have to live with the idea that just maybe she's
with them, just for financial reasons. And there are lots of guys
here who think that is the main motivating factor in all cases.
Is it?   -doug
« Last Edit: March 03, 2005, 09:36:00 AM by Photo Guy »

Offline Bruno

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« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2005, 10:28:12 AM »

[line]
Then they have to live with the idea that just maybe she's with them, just for financial reasons. And there are lots of guys here who think that is the main motivating factor in all cases. Is it?
[line]


No, it is not the main factor... usually, on forum, you read bad experience... it is like newspaper... the share of these bad experience help newbies to not know the same but these bad experience are not the rule... and some guys are responsible of his own misluck....

"Don't think that just because you have a US passport, all the Russian women will be falling at your feet, just thru the virtue of your citizenship. In most cases your foreign citizenship is exactly what they do not want. A Russian woman WANTS to live in Russia, in most cases she will not want to leave. She will leave, but not because of your citizenship. She is Russian, she is proud of that fact! She is a citizen of the largest country in the world. She only knows as much about our world as her friends have written back and told her, or she has gotten through their grapevine. She will have absolutely no concept of our way of life, and what little she does know is probably tainted, but she will think she knows as much as you do about our lifestyle. Don't question this, just let it ride, otherwise you will be opening a can of worms. You see, she learned about our world from other Russians, and you are not a Russian. I never met any Russian who did not have a severe inferiority complex. In their mind anyone or anything that is not Russian is stupid, cheap, and of poor quality, once again, let it ride. If you find your wife in Russia, she will learn about the west soon enough, then she will experience what is known as 'cultural shock', after that she will not be able to go back and live with what she was satisfied with before. But, she will still be Russian. Why would she want you? In my research I found only one universal answer, she must feel that it is her destiny, that she loves and is loved, that is the most important thing possible in her life, she will follow it anywhere. That is overwhelmingly the answer I got to the question; What would persuade you to live outside of Russia? I am often told women look for financial security, or maturity, but that was never the answer to my question, so, I would consider that to be a secondary issue, though, not being an exact science, anything can be considered a possibility." Winston 


 

Offline jb

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« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2005, 12:47:28 PM »
Quote
<snip>,,there are lots of guys here who think that <(money)>is the main motivating factor in all cases.
Is it?


Yeah,,, we tend to see that more than we'd like.  Stories of scammers, dishonest agencies, and generally poor choices made by otherwise intelligent men who seem to lose their ability to think clearly in the presence of a pretty face, ruin the mystique of the process.

Ideally, every relationship would be a fairy tale with a "happily ever after" ending.  Unfortunately that isn't always the case, on another thread we see Michael struggling with the possibility that all may not be sugar and spice, that there may be a spoonful of greed and deceit spoiling the mix.  But he seems to have caught a sniff of trouble now, perhaps it's not too late to bail and get a new perspective on things.  

Offline Michelangelo

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« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2005, 01:16:22 PM »
Quote from: jb
<snip>,,Ideally, every relationship would be a fairy tale with a "happily ever after" ending.  Unfortunately that isn't always the case, on another thread we see Michael struggling with the possibility that all may not be sugar and spice, that there may be a spoonful of greed and deceit spoiling the mix.  But he seems to have caught a sniff of trouble now, perhaps it's not too late to bail and get a new perspective on things.  [/quote?


Right, if I do this again, I will hold back a little more on gifts.  I do know that the girl whom I visited last week (who is in a bad agency) turned me down when I offered to put a computer in her home and internet service so we could be in better contact.  She said it was too much.  I think I like that:)
« Last Edit: March 03, 2005, 01:19:00 PM by Michelangelo »
The greater danger for most of us lies not in setting our aim too high and falling short; but in setting our aim too low, and achieving our mark.  michelangelo

 

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