Starting Out

[Elen]

Helena, you have speak yourself about other parameter for the quality of life and you have speak about the UN ranking... and i have make the search for find the fresh information... You accept the rapport of 2000 because he is good for Russia but not these of 2005 because he is not good for Russia... a very strange reaction

That's because I think the West was more obiective to Lukachenko in 2000. Things just changed pricely in "political area" since 2000.


 

[Admin]

he-he-he:D:Psound like you met them all and speaks from your own personal experience

Yes, I do know them from personal experience - just like you know all the girls "at the roadside from Sheremet'evo to Moscow selling themselves."

- Dan

[Elen]

But I did speak about milician chronics while you "visited many parts" after what you could "definitively confirm" whatever-you-have-there:P

[Admin]

But I didspeak about milician chronics while you "visited many parts" after what you could "definitively confirm" whatever-you-have-there:P

Yes, you referenced militsia chronicles (I presume you mean statistics), and claimed that 25% of all crime in Russia is caused by Ukrainians.

Right now, we have your claims of the percentages of Ukrainian criminals - and we have my claims of the proportion of Russian prostitutes - both claimed percentages are equally credible (which is to say - not at all).

- Dan

[Elen]

Phew!:D I DO NOT argue with your numbers at all because they seem for true enough - Ukraine which has population 3 times less than Russia represents only 1,3 times less level of prostitution. One thing of two - either Life in Ukraine twice worse than in Russia (then what's about Ukraine's place number 98 vs Russian 108 one in U.N rate??:? ) or "something is rotten in the state of Danish":P.

Well!. Enough! This theme is closed for me as discussion is sliding dangerously at the personal level. I don't want make you cry about my ban from that board:D

 

Back to the point where all this started at - "Belarus is in deeper hole than Ukraine therefore it would be easy to pick up girl there" (interpretation of mine)

Well if you guys want to fool yourselves then I can do little about that. My business is to warn you - Things in White Russia are not such bad for some girls would try to escape at any possible ways from the country. So you should offer them something different from material stuff

[Bruno]

Elena, Dan ... i think that i have information that who can stop these discussion about crime... and elena, don't worry about be banned from these forum, it is not the style of Dan ...

Everybody speak about % from report but :

"In USA only 38% of all crimes are reported to police, while in Russia that figure is much lower, about 1/5 of all crimes are registered, including 1/3 of homicides, 1/7 of rapes, 1/78 of larceny cases... Moscow police registers about 25% of all crimes committed in the city, predominantly those that they may expect to solve."

"Russia and USA are still on the top of the prison population rating, keeping in the custody about 0.7 per cent of population."

"In spite of this negative development in crime activity during transition period, Russia still has the crime rate below the level in many Western European countries even if we take into account the higher rate of not registered crimes in Russia. On the other hand, the homicide rate in Russia is four-five time higher than in other European countries and approximately at the same level as the homicide rate in USA... it should be noticed that the high homicide rate in Russia corresponds to other high mortality rates, like the suicide rate, which is four time as much as in Europe..."

See the full rapport from Yury Andrienko ( Explaining the crime growth in russia ... economic and criminometric approach ) at :

http://www.love-from-russia.be/forum/cefpub3.pdf[/color][/b]

In short, about crime, no one country is better that other... we speak a lot about crime in Russia now but only because it have grow fast in short time... but the actual level is not more high that in our country.

[Photo Guy]

Elena from Moscow,

I don't want to hear about the inferiority of
Ukrainian women. Tell me something more interesting
and useful about Russian or Ukrainian women.
Share something positive. I appreciate your
unique Russian perspective. What advice can you give?
-doug L.

[Photo Guy]

 Back to the point where all this started at - "Belarus is in deeper hole than Ukraine therefore it would be easy to pick up girl there" (interpretation of mine)
Well if you guys want to fool yourselves then I can do little about that. My business is to warn you - Things in White Russia are not such bad for some girls would try to escape at any possible ways from the country. So you should offer them something different from material stuff

Yes, I see what you mean. You summed it up well.  -doug L.

[Bruno]

Yes, Doug ... Don't ever forget this though, most Russian women would never consider leaving their country, their families and friends, and all they understand and are accustomed to if they could find compatible Russia men. The fact is that it's a numbers game, and there are simply not enough good men to go around.

[Elen]

I don't want to hear about the inferiority of Ukrainian women.

All of this was about  "inferiority" of Ukraine economy they managed to produce by their own after the fall of the USSR. The resuts are just at Moscow streets.

The fact is that it's a numbers game, and there are simply not enough good men to go around.

That's true but only for older ages groups. And majority of you is looking for 20-30 years old women, But there is all Ok (almost) with numbers

"Almost" is for small towns where there may be nothing men even for 20 y.o. girl.

What advice can you give?

Advice?? What about?? (Oops :?sorry I already forgot what we were discussing:D)

Ok Let's ask my advice about anything you want just keep in your minds it would be an advice from MOSKOVITE (such "spoiled" persones as we are )

 

[Admin]

Well!. Enough! This theme is closed for me as discussion is sliding dangerously at the personal level. I don't want make you cry about my ban from that board:D

Elen,

No need to even think about a "ban." There has been only one person banned from the board and that was for behavior that was totally disruptive - he never posted a single productive message and sought only to create chaos. In addition there have been 2 or 3 other people who have announced their own decisions to leave the board - but they were not banned.

Actually, much of what you offer to the board I agree with.

It is the zenophobic and arrogant Muscovite attitude that hit my 'hot button.' It is certainly not the first time I have heard it - and I respond to it the same way each time because I consider it unfounded criticism of another populace in a feeble attempt to feel better about oneself.

And BTW -I also think a large percentage of Americans do the same thing - was well as people from many other countries (French and Germans, among them).

Anyway, we can lay the topic to rest.

Regards,

- Dan

[Elen]

Ah, females can never held theirs mouths close for long enough.

It is the zenophobic and arrogant Muscovite attitude that hit my 'hot button.' It is certainly not the first time I have heard it - and I respond to it the same way each time because I consider it unfounded criticism of another populace in a feeble attempt to feel better about oneself.

 

Did you never think about why that xenophobia is mostly oriented at Ukraines but not at White Russians? May be it's not such "unfounded" like it seems for you?

[Admin]

Did you never think about why that xenophobiaÂis mostly oriented at Ukraines but not at White Russians? May be it's not such "unfounded" like it seems for you?

Ok Elena, I'll bite. Why is the xenophobia directed primarily at Ukrainians and not White Russians?

- Dan

PS - We may have to move this to the Cultural section. Either that, or the 'Nasty mean Russians Hate all Ukrainians section'  :cool: [just joking]

[Elen]

 Because it's a reaction at Ukraine's nacionalism (wich some time takes very odd forms of mixture of Megalomania and inferiority complex:P) {Joke too}

Now it's a turn for your virsion (influented by hohluska-wife:D)

As for Culture section it would be interesting to know for me one thing.

You do see differences between Russian women and American ones, but can you see the same among three slavic nations - Russians, White Russians and Ukraines.?

For example there are no such word constrations in Russian langage like "quiet Ukraine woman" or "lavish(generouse with money) Ukraines". It's nonsense  like "black russian" Of course it's all generalisation but nevertheless ... may be you should keep that in your minds;)

[Bruno]

Helena, don't need see difference between slavic nation... i have already see difference between Moscow and Lipetsk... Moscow is like a country in a other country... the life and mentality in Moscow is not the same that other city... Russia is so big, it is dificult to say something general... By example, when i have visit St-Petersburg, i have think that i was always in Europa...

[Elen]

Helena, don't need see difference between slavic nation...

Well, like you wish... We do see.

 

[Bud With AFA]

This is Bud from A Foreign Affair...this thread started out great and went south in a hurry... let's all work together to help the guy asking the original question in the first place... PhotoGuy, I like your posts...

For those who don't know - I am a Romance Tour Director, have been to Russia 5 times ( not nearly enough, can't wait to go back, what a beautiful culture!) and married a wonderful and lovely girl from St Petersburg. I am not the owners of AFA, rather an Employee in the Tour Department - with lots of (hopefully) useful information to offer.

If you are just beginning this process the most important thing for you to know is that it is a prcoess filled with wonderful people along the way, and success is the norm. However you need to have a few things in place before you get started, and here thety are:

 

1. YOU HAVE TO BE A TRULY NICE GUY. Most men know if they are nice or not. You need to be sincere, considerate and family-oriented. You will need to not hold the women to a standard other than your own - in other words, you can't expect that their needs, wants desires and feelings are going to be any less in this process than yours, just because your the man - and a foreign man at that. You will need to convince someone to give up everyting that is familiar to her, to leave her family and firends, job if she has one, and homeland of which she is most proud - to come half way around the world to live with you in aplace where she cannot speak the language proficiently (in most cases,) cannot work or drive right away, cannot open a bank account and do the things that people do to make their lives functional. You will be the absolute center of her world as she puts her life in your hands. You will need to put your needs aside after she arrives, to support her through the transition of leaving one life behind to begin another. If you can do all this, you are ready to succeed.

2. BE FINANCIALLY STABLE ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN. That doesn't mean being Bill Gates. It does mean having about $5000 to $6000 to invest in this process over the next 6 - 9 months, which will go toward your correspondance, travel (possibly a tour package with AFA:D...worked very well for me indeed!) help her thorugh the Fiancee Visa Process (highly recommended over the Spousal Visa process,) and airfare for her trip here. These women typically don't ask for much, but we can;t expect them to come here and live less successfully than they did in Russia or Ukraine. So be able to pay the bills on a monthly basis, put some aside each month and budget for having fun. Russian women love gifts, but usually don't require very expensive things, more they appreciate the generosity of their man. I buy my wife flowers, cosmetics, jewelry and clothes all which look great on her, but don't break the bank.

 

3. BE READY TO TRAVEL. There are thousands of men who write to Russian and Ukrainian women, and fewer than 3% of these men will actually get on aplane and go. Russian and Ukrainian women know this, so they will screen out the less than sincere guys, and you can't blame them. They don't like games any more than we do, and they can't complete this process and find their happiness if a guy isn't willing to get on the plane and go to her.  This is also a prerequisite for the Finacee Visa approval - you will have to document that you two actually met and fell in love.

4. BE SERIOUS BEFORE YOU GET STARTED. When a NICE Russian or Ukrainian woman meets a NICE foreign man, who is ready to love her, to bring her to his home and to make her wolrd secure, happy amd filled with happiness - it's a great event for both their lives. Not following through with your promises to travel, to file for the Fiancee Visa, to bring her here and to be a good husband are heart-breaking for these girls. Be ready to succeed and be ready for the commitment thatsuccess will bring.

5. BE REALISTIC. This is so important. Keep the age difference to no more than 12 - 15 years to give yourself the best shot at long-term compatibility, though I know many happy couples who have a greater age span than that. Don't limit yourself to 19 year old, English speaking super-model wannabe's...and definitely don't limit yourself to women who only speak English. Be willing to put some effort into the ladies who need an interpreter, and learn a little of the language yourself to show your support and good intentions. The most wonderful thing you can say to a Russian Girl? "Y tebya lublu syem sertsem say doshoyu..." (I love you with all my heart and soul...) Remember: the ladies who are over the age of 30, and / or who do not speak perfect English are very overlooked in this process, and you can win the heart of a beautiful lady if you don't limit your options. My wife learned conversational English in about 4 months.

 

I would try correspondence through a reputable agency, especially one that conducts romance tours because they will know many of the ladies. (Not all certainly, but many.) I would avoid posting a profile on free sites because the would be scammers who will write to you, profess their love after a few weeks and ask for money for a Visa to come and visit you - are constantly combing through these in search of victims. NEVER SEND MONEY TO SOMEONE YOU HAVEN'T MET!!! Russain and Ukrainian women are very decent and would not consider asking a stranger for money, it's taboo in their culture. Yet, after you become engaged, some money will be necessary for things like English lessons, the US Embassy interview, etc...

It's a wonderful and rewarding process! There are some men who have no business looking for a wife from any culture - because of their negative attitudes toward women in general, and their desire to sensationalize their bad experiences. They tend to permeate these discussion boards so- be careful.  I find that the small percentage of scamming wenches and unrealistic men make alot more noise than the majority of successful couples who have met thorugh this process. COUPLES - WE NEED YOU!

If I can offer you referrals, or any other information please let me know. Moderator, I understand if you wish to delete my phone number - not sure it's allowed but if it is - (800 576-3367 ext 220.

Good Luck Everyone!

 

 

[Bruno]

Whooowwww.... What a good post... not a lot of complement to say of something to change... only

[line]
BE FINANCIALLY STABLE ENOUGH TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN...It does mean having about $5000 to $6000 to invest in this process over the next 6 - 9 months, ...
[line]
 
Stable is the keyword... not need to be rich... myself, i have not the $5000 for the next six month... but my stability allow me the full procedure in the year... and the stability is a plus punt for the life after... i have a advantage, FSU is not fare from Europa and the administrative procedure is more simple that for US... For people who are short in money with the expense of agency, don't begin, the expense for marriage, and take care of your wife the first year are more high...

[line]
The most wonderful thing you can say to a Russian Girl? "Y tebya lublu syem sertsem say doshoyu..." (I love you with all my heart and soul...)
[line]

"Я очень люблю тебя и прошу стать моей женой" ( I love you very much and ask you to be my wife ) , "Я вверяю тебе своё сердце и прошу твоего согласия" ( I consign you my heart and ask for your consent ), of "Моё сердце принадлежит тебе навеки. Будь моей женою!" ( My heart belongs to you evermore. Be my wife! ) are better

[line]
I would avoid posting a profile on free sites because the would be scammers who will write to you, profess their love after a few weeks and ask for money for a Visa to come and visit you - are constantly combing through these in search of victims.
[line]
 
Some free site have not problem with scammer .... only agency like you can offer side service that free agency can give... if a man need translation, need tour, juridical advice... it is better use your service... but if they can find her way itself, free site is a alternative...

[Elen]

The most wonderful thing you can say to a Russian Girl? "Y tebya lublu Vsyem sertsem Vsay dushoyu..." (I love you with all my heart and soul...)

 

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[Bud With AFA]

Thanks Elen! And Bruno - I stand corrected! It is wrong for me to stereotype all free service just as it is wrong for anyone to stereotype agencies..some guys want to get started before they have the full money for a tour or a trip - and why shouldn't they!

 

Everyone keep up the good work!

[Bruno]

[line]
some guys want to get started before they have the full money for a tour or a trip - and why shouldn't they!
[line]

Of course, it is possible... myself, i have make my plan in function of what i can spare each month... but for this, it is need like you have write a stable financial situation. Don't begin when you are without work, don't begin use credit card...

[Admin]

You do see differences between Russian women and American ones, but can you see the same among three slavic nations - Russians, White Russians and Ukraines.?

For example thereare no such word constrations in Russian langage like "quiet Ukraine woman" or "lavish(generouse with money) Ukraines". It's nonsense like "black russian" Of course it's all generalisation but nevertheless ... may be you should keep that in your minds;)

Why Elen? Why should we keep this generalization in mind?

Please explain, very explicitly, what it is you are implying. Rather then deal in veiled implication, please just be direct with your accusations.

Also, please describe YOUR understanding of the definition of a "black Russian" and a "white Russian".

I look forward to FINALLY seeing what you are trying to say in all this.

- Dan

[Elen]

Also, please describe YOUR understanding of the definition of a "black Russian" and a "white Russian

Stop suspect me in all possible sins, for God sake!

"BLACK RUSSIAN" - is a saying described not existing thing.

Hello, bo-o-o-y, it's  JUST SAYING. Nothing more (and some drink also if I remeber correctly)

"WHITE RUSSIANs" - are those who live in White Russia (the name of Belarus - BELAYA RUS' - in Russian)

And what's wrong with my wish you would see THREE nations instead of one. If you are not abble to determinate more than 200 nationalities at former USSR's area ( I see you can't do it even for three of us) then stop name them all RUSSIAN. We are tired to be responsible for all our former baddies who speak Russian do all round the world.  

And what is wrong with my generalisation?? I thought all guys here were right because of they have done some сonclusions about American women IN GENERAL! Am I wrong?

If I'm right then may be it would be useful for them to know about our "generelisations" as well, and be prepared to face silence response from White russaian wife,( don't fool yourself she fogot what you have done),  grumbling up to the last days of your life from Russian one and a strike right in your forehead from Ukraine wife in a same conflict situation?( in general:D)

I look forward to FINALLY seeing what you are trying to say in all this.

The same about you. What do you suspect me in?

[Bruce]

http://www.infoukes.com/history/chornobyl/gregorovich/

 

The above link and other links giving information about the Chernobyl nuclear accident should not be taken lightly by a man looking for a potential wife from the FSU, especially parts of Belarus and the regions in Ukraine hit hardest by the radioactive fallout pattern.  There are many similar links talking about and showing both regional and world wide fallout patterns over time.  

It is always great to get a Russian woman's perspective on things and the posts have been quite interesting, though somewhat off topic. 

[Bruno]

Sorry Bruce... i need against show some information against America... when you write :

[line]
the Chernobyl nuclear accident should not be taken lightly by a man looking for a potential wife from the FSU, especially parts of Belarus and the regions in Ukraine hit hardest by the radioactive fallout pattern.
[line]

Now for all Russian woman who wish marry a american man, see the link below ( american man can see it too... ) :

http://www.downwinders.org/nci.html

These map show the remaining of the atomic fallow in US from the nuclear test in the year 50... only the blue regio are recommended... and don't forget to ask where he have life before...

Now, i hope that these paronoia stop... all the world is a big garbage and no one country is better that the other...