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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 253574 times)

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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #200 on: October 09, 2015, 10:05:24 AM »
Reasonable, but we will never know because it is Russia whose level of transparency as well as restraint is far different from the America's.   We will admit the tragic mistake of blasting a Doctors Without Borders hospital and apologize.  In contrast, consider MH17.

True. As far as the Russians are concerned it was a brilliant operation with stunning results...as usual. ;)

Another point I was going to mention is that this 26 missile barrage might well have been the 'money shot' for the Russian Navy's latest generation cruise missile. More a PR campaign like "See what we got" stunt. I doubt they have many more in reserve.

That Doctor's Without Borders incident...It smells to high heaven. It's already been established there were Taliban in the building....

..."In a news conference here in the Afghan capital, Doctors Without Borders officials reiterated that they think the hospital’s main building was “deliberately” targeted because it was the only structure hit during the bombardment. They denied that any Taliban fighters in the hospital were armed or using it as a base."...

..."In the aftermath of the bombing, which killed at least 22 people, some Afghan leaders have suggested that the hospital had become a command center for Taliban fighters who seized control of Kunduz on Sept. 28."...

..."Hospital officials denied that assertion Thursday, although they conceded that they had been treating wounded Taliban fighters, some of whom probably were in the building at the time of the attack. They said Taliban fighters were cared for in the same manner as other patients in accordance with international law designating hospitals as “noncombatant” zones."...

http://news.nationalpost.com/news/world/u-s-gunship-made-five-passes-over-afghan-hospital-despite-9-foot-flags-iding-it-as-a-medical-facility-msf

As usual the apologist-in-chief was quick to accept US culpability for the incident. However, I'm going to reserve judgment until the investigation(s) are complete.

Mistakes do happen but my experience with these organizations (like MSF) tells me they're going to try and blame the US regardless of what the actual circumstances were and they're really pushing this 'war crimes' angle - It's a bit too political in nature and quite frankly OTT. Seems to me this organization is leaning a bit towards sympathy for the Taliban.

Brass
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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #201 on: October 09, 2015, 05:36:49 PM »


As usual the apologist-in-chief was quick to accept US culpability for the incident. However, I'm going to reserve judgment until the investigation(s) are complete.



He damn well should apologize for the bombs killing the doctors....  I don't see a reason why he would apologize unless we did it or had something to do with it.   


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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #202 on: October 09, 2015, 07:32:06 PM »
He damn well should apologize for the bombs killing the doctors....  I don't see a reason why he would apologize unless we did it or had something to do with it.  

Yeah? Well, guess what? I was wrong. Obama didn't apologize. He offered his condolences and also stated exactly what I stated above...He'll wait for the results of the investigation...

..."Statement by the President on the Casualties in Kunduz

On behalf of the American people, I extend my deepest condolences to the medical professionals and other civilians killed and injured in the tragic incident at a Doctors Without Borders hospital in Kunduz.  The Department of Defense has launched a full investigation, and we will await the results of that inquiry before making a definitive judgment as to the circumstances of this tragedy.  I have asked the Department of Defense to keep me apprised of the investigation and expect a full accounting of the facts and circumstances.  Michelle and I offer our thoughts and prayers to all of the civilians affected by this incident, their families, and loved ones.  We will continue to work closely with President Ghani, the Afghan government, and our international partners to support the Afghan National Defense and Security forces as they work to secure their country."...

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2015/10/03/statement-president-casualties-kunduz

So, in light of this revelation, I withdraw my comment that "As usual the apologist-in-chief was quick to accept US culpability for the incident." as incorrect and unwarranted (in this instance).

Brass




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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #203 on: October 10, 2015, 08:41:11 AM »
Yeah? Well, guess what? I was wrong. Obama didn't apologize. He offered his condolences and also stated exactly what I stated above...He'll wait for the results of the investigation...

 
So, in light of this revelation, I withdraw my comment that "As usual the apologist-in-chief was quick to accept US culpability for the incident." as incorrect and unwarranted (in this instance).

Brass


Well maybe then the wronged 'apologist-in-chief' deserves an apology from you...since you drew the conclusion without considering the facts, that he might be currently considering or spinning!   :D


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Offline Brasscasing

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #204 on: October 10, 2015, 10:17:01 AM »
Well maybe then the wronged 'apologist-in-chief' deserves an apology from you...since you drew the conclusion without considering the facts, that he might be currently considering or spinning!   :D

Nonsense. I'm retracting my retraction...The only thing I'm guilty of is not being able to keep up with this administration's constant flip flopping...

Obama apologizes to Doctors Without Borders for Kunduz hospital airstrike

"...President Barack Obama apologized to Doctors Without Borders on Wednesday for the U.S. air attack that killed at least 22 people at a medical clinic in Afghanistan, and said the U.S. would examine military procedures to look for better ways to prevent such incidents."...

Liu confirmed the apology and, in a written statement, reiterated her organization's call for the U.S. government to consent to an independent investigation "to establish what happened in Kunduz, how it happened, and why it happened."

"When the United States makes a mistake, we own up to it, we apologize where appropriate, and we are honest about what transpired," Earnest said. He described Obama's apology as "heartfelt."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/obama-apology-dwb-1.3261009

It seems you are also unable to keep up with Obama's flip flopping. Your last two posts show you were just as unaware of the White House not up dating their press release as I was or you would have taken the opportunity to finally get one over on me. ;)



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« Last Edit: October 10, 2015, 10:22:44 AM by Brasscasing »
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #205 on: October 10, 2015, 12:16:11 PM »
Nonsense. I'm retracting my retraction...The only thing I'm guilty of is not being able to keep up with this administration's constant flip flopping...


It seems you are also unable to keep up with Obama's flip flopping. Your last two posts show you were just as unaware of the White House not up dating their press release as I was or you would have taken the opportunity to finally get one over on me. ;)

Lets just hope you don't retract the retraction of the retraction...or we will have to start calling you the "Retractor at arms". 


I wasn't keeping up on the statements, or really even focusing on what Obama says every minute...but it seems our error did indeed kill all those doctors, so an apology is in order, I don't see why that makes Obama the 'apologizer and chief' though...It should be obvious it is right to start with an apology.  Why would that be grumble-worthy?


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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #206 on: October 10, 2015, 03:13:46 PM »
Obama on Putin's military mission in Syria
Russia's move into Syria is a sign of weakness, not strength,
President Obama tells 60 Minutes


President Vladimir Putin's military mission in Syria is a sign of Russia's weakness,
not a show of its leadership, says President Obama. Russia has been forced to
prop up a teetering Assad regime, he maintains, Russia's only ally in the region.
Mr. Obama speaks at length to Kroft about the situation in Syria and about domestic
politics, including his opinions on Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server,
whether his vice president, Joe Biden, will run for president, and his take on
Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump. The interview will be broadcast on
60 Minutes Sunday, October 11 at 7:30 p.m ET/PT.

An excerpt from the 60 Minutes interview was broadcast on CBS This Morning. A
transcript of that excerpt is below:

Steve Kroft: A year ago when we did this interview, there was some saber-rattling
between the United States and Russia on the Ukrainian border. Now it's also going
on in Syria. You said a year ago that the United States-- America leads. We're the
indispensable nation. Mr. Putin seems to be challenging that leadership.

President Barack Obama: In what way? Let-- let's think about this-- let-- let--

Steve Kroft: Well, he's moved troops into Syria, for one. He's got people on the ground.
Two, the Russians are conducting military operations in the Middle East for the first time
since World War II.

President Barack Obama: So that's-- so that's --

Steve Kroft: bombing the people-- that we are supporting.

President Barack Obama: So that's leading, Steve? Let me ask you this question.
When I came into office-- Ukraine was governed by a corrupt ruler who was a
stooge of Mr. Putin.

Steve Kroft: Right, right, right.

President Barack Obama: Syria was Russia's only ally in the region. And today,
rather than being able to count on their support and maintain the base they had
in Syria, which they've had for a long time. Mr. Putin now is devoting- his own
troops, his own military, just to barely hold together by a thread his sole ally.
And in Ukraine--

Steve Kroft: He's challenging your leadership, Mr. President. He's challenging
your leadership-

President Barack Obama: Well-- Steve, I got to tell you, if you think that running
your economy into the ground and having to send troops in, in order to prop up
your only ally is leadership, then we've got a different definition of leadership.

read all about it here
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/obama-on-putins-military-mission-in-syria/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #207 on: October 10, 2015, 03:19:11 PM »
NOTE these are Unconfirmed reports of a Russian jet getting shot down in Turkey.


Russian jet SHOT DOWN by Turkey after it flew into their airspace, according to reports

read the story here
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/611157/Russia-Turkey-jet-plane-shot-down-airspace-Syria-ISIS-Islamic-State


Russian jet 'shot down by Turkish forces after planes violated country's airspace on Syrian bombing run'

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3267595/Russian-jet-shot-Turkish-forces-flew-country-s-airspace.html#ixzz3oCpyNcaE

Unconfirmed Reports: Russian Aircraft Shot Down After It Violated Turkish Airspace
Tyler Rogoway

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/unconfirmed-reports-russian-aircraft-shot-down-after-i-1735844395
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #208 on: October 10, 2015, 03:33:12 PM »
How Russia Is Already Scuttling U.S. Plans in Syria
By Joshua Keating Slate.com

In July, Turkey and Jordan agreed to cooperate with the U.S. to set up and enforce
aerial safe zones to protect civilians and rebels in the north and south of Syria. But
the Financial Times suggested on Sunday that Russia’s new air campaign in Syria
has effectively scuttled that plan. As analyst Justin Bronk of the Royal United Service
Institute told the Financial Times, “The Russian forces now in place make it very, very
obvious that any kind of no-fly zone … is now impossible, unless the coalition is actually
willing to shoot down Russian aircraft.”

If you’re wondering what that means, you’re not alone. Civilians in the area were
pretty confused too. No-fly zones, which the U.S. has previous helped enforce in
Iraq under Saddam Hussein, and the Balkans as well as in Libya, are, in effect, a
warning to another country’s air force that it will be engaged if it operates in a given
area. But it was never exactly clear what the U.S. would do if Assad tried to drop
bombs inside the safe zone, not a far-fetched scenario given his penchant for testing
U.S. red lines.

The deployment of Russian jets and anti-aircraft systems to Syria makes it much less
likely that anything resembling a no-fly zone will be established. If U.S. jets wouldn’t
attack Syrian helicopters carrying barrels full of dynamite and nails, they certainly
aren’t going to attack Russian Sukhois. Instead, the administration’s new plan in Syria,
according to the New York Times, involves concentrating on the northeast of the country,
around the ISIS capital, Raqqa, far from where Russia has been aiming its airstrikes.

This new offensive could involve providing ammunition to rebel groups for the first time
and ramping up the air campaign in the northeast. The Times notes that  the “United States
and Turkey continue detailed planning to use Arab militias to close a 60-mile stretch of
border from the Euphrates River west to Kilis,” but it’s not clear if that still involves
establishing a buffer zone or how it would be enforced.

read the entire story here
http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2015/10/05/russia_has_scuttled_plans_for_a_no_fly_zone_in_syria.html
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #209 on: October 10, 2015, 03:36:27 PM »
Looking for anything that doesn't make Obama look like an indecisive, inept  buffoon,
CNN wonders if maybe the US Turkey relationship might be improved on Obama's
watch.

Will Russian airstrikes in Syria derail Turkey relationship?
By Natasha Ezro CNN

(CNN)Tensions are rising fast between Turkey and Russia after Russian jets apparently
violated Turkey's airspace twice, leading to heated exchanges between Ankara and Moscow. Russia claimed that an SU-30 warplane had entered Turkish airspace by accident due to
bad weather conditions and navigational error -- an explanation that was dismissed by
Turkish President Recep Erdogan who said that Russia risked losing a friend and warned
of possible NATO involvement.

There is a lot more read all about it here
http://www.cnn.com/2015/10/08/opinions/syria-airstrikes-russia-turkey-opinion/
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #210 on: October 10, 2015, 03:40:45 PM »


Russian Missile Strikes in Syria Trigger European Alert to Airlines
Long-range missiles prompt safety bulletin to airlines flying in Iraq,
Iran and over the Caspian Sea By ROBERT WALL Wall Street Journal


LONDON—Russia’s long-range missile strikes against targets in Syria have prompted aviation safety authorities to issue a safety alert to airlines flying in Iraq, Iran, and over the Caspian Sea amid growing concerns about the risk to commercial flying near conflict zones.

Russia this week said it fired cruise missiles from the Caspian Sea against Syrian targets—nearly 1,000 miles away—as Moscow steps up its support of Syrian President Bashar al-Assad. The U.S. and other Western countries have denounced the strikes. Russia denies U.S. assertions that some of the missiles fell short, landing in Iran.

The International Civil Aviation Organization, the United Nations’ air-safety arm, on Oct. 9 warned of “the possible existence of serious risks to the safety of international civil flights” flying in the wider airspace around Baghdad, Damascus and Tehran.

The European Aviation Safety Agency said it issued a safety information bulletin to airlines on Oct. 9 in response to the missile strikes. “Before reaching Syria, such missiles are necessarily crossing the airspace above Caspian Sea, Iran and Iraq, below flight routes which are used by commercial transport aeroplanes,” said the organization, which is based in Cologne, Germany.

read all about it here
http://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-missile-strikes-in-syria-trigger-european-alert-to-airlines-1444473837
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #211 on: October 10, 2015, 03:46:25 PM »


Russian warplanes strike Syria; U.S., Russian officials talk
Doug Stanglin, USA TODAY

The offensive by Syrian troops marked the first major air-and-ground assault since Moscow began its military campaign in Syria on Sept. 30. Russian officials insisted the airstrikes were targeting mainly Islamic State militants, but most strikes hit areas where the extremist group is not present, according to reports on the ground.

The fighting is concentrated in Hama and the northern Idlib provinces, where a consortium of mainstream rebels opposed to Syrian President Bashar Assad are operating along with al-Qaeda’s branch in Syria, the Nusra Front.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, which relies on a network of activists across Syria, said government troops seized control of Atshan on Friday amid intense Russian airstrikes in the area. It said troops also seized the nearby Um Hartein village.

The rebels have put up stiff resistance by using advanced, U.S.-made TOW missiles to attack Syrian tanks and armored vehicles.

The Russian defense ministry said its planes flew 64 sorties and targeted 54 sites in the past 24 hours, without elaborating, Russian government-owned ITAR-TASS news agency reports. Among the sites attacked, it said, were militant command outposts in Aleppo and Idlib provinces.

Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, spokesperson for the Russian defense ministry, said Russian aircraft also destroyed 29 field camps of Islamic State militants, along with an ammunition depot in Hama Province.
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #212 on: October 10, 2015, 03:52:29 PM »
There is a video on the link below, which has both John Kerry and John McCain
jockeying for the position of least relevant opinion regarding the Russia/Syrian
connection.


Russia transfers Ukraine war doctrine to Syria
Oren Dorell, USA TODAY

If its role in fomenting conflict in eastern Ukraine is a guide, Russia has some
new tricks in store for Syrian rebels and their allies.

Russia's recent involvement in Syria's civil war is similar in some ways to its intervention
in eastern Ukraine, where it exploited ethnic conflict, provided weapons, employed
volunteers and irregular forces and tried to deceive the West about its intentions.

That approach is what Russia's chief of the general staff, Gen. Valery Gerasimov, calls
"new generation warfare."

The Russian military doctrine "combines low-end, hidden state involvement with
high-end, direct, even braggadocio, superpower involvement," said Phillip Karber,
president of the Potomac Foundation military consultancy. Karber has briefed U.S.
military leaders on Russia's military behavior in the Ukraine conflict, based on
observations during more than a dozen field visits.

Despite evidence of direct Russian participation in the revolt by separatists in eastern
Ukraine provided by NATO, the U.S. military, international observers and many news
outlets, Russia continues to deny it. "The number of times this question is asked will
not affect the answer that (the) Kremlin has," Ilya Timokhov, a Ukraine analyst at the
Russian Embassy in Washington, said in an interview.

The role of deceit and subterfuge in the new Russian way of war means opponents don't
always know when Russia has entered a conflict, how many resources are involved or
what its goal is, Karber said.

Russia's military buildup in Syria and its first airstrikes last week were met with confusion
in the USA. Secretary of State John Kerry called Russia's foreign minister several times
to seek clarity on Russia's plans and goals, which became clear only as Russian strikes
began hitting U.S.-backed rebel groups fighting the regime of Syrian President Bashar
Assad, a close Russian ally.

There is more read all about it here
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/10/10/russia-transfers-ukraine-war-doctrine-syria/73595252/
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #213 on: October 10, 2015, 09:17:10 PM »
NOTE these are Unconfirmed reports of a Russian jet getting shot down in Turkey.


Russian jet SHOT DOWN by Turkey after it flew into their airspace, according to reports

Maybe it was the portable GPS units gone awry?




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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #214 on: October 10, 2015, 09:41:50 PM »
Maybe someone more in the know can shed light on this, but isn't ISIS operating in Dagestan and Chechnya? Wouldn't Russia interfering in Syria cause a possible flare up in those regions as well?

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #215 on: October 10, 2015, 10:46:12 PM »
Russian strikes began hitting U.S.-backed rebel groups fighting the regime of Syrian President Bashar
Assad, a close Russian ally.



American backed rebel groups? The media has it all wrong. Anti gun Obama would never promote gun  violence because it doesn't solve problems. He didn't give guns to Mexican drug cartels during operation Fast and Furious and he didn't give guns to rebels in Syria because he cares about people.


Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #216 on: October 10, 2015, 11:17:22 PM »
Maybe someone more in the know can shed light on this, but isn't ISIS operating in Dagestan and Chechnya? Wouldn't Russia interfering in Syria cause a possible flare up in those regions as well?


I doubt Kadyrov would allow ISIS to operate in Chechnya.  But Chechens are fighting with them, Russia even cleared a corridor for fighters to join ISIS.  Less problems for them.


http://europe.newsweek.com/chechen-leader-says-three-isis-members-have-been-killed-russia-334395
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #217 on: October 11, 2015, 07:38:15 AM »
I doubt Kadyrov would allow ISIS to operate in Chechnya.  But Chechens are fighting with them, Russia even cleared a corridor for fighters to join ISIS.  Less problems for them.

An article I read the other day mentioned several leaders had switched allegiance to ISIS in the area so I was curious.

"In November 2014, the leader of the Caucasus Emirate terror group was ousted from his position when mid-level commanders switched their allegiance to Islamic State leader Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi"

http://www.ibtimes.com/islamic-state-group-attacks-russian-military-base-dagestan-region-northern-caucasus-2079485

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #218 on: October 11, 2015, 07:50:18 AM »
Lets just hope you don't retract the retraction of the retraction...or we will have to start calling you the "Retractor at arms". 


I wasn't keeping up on the statements, or really even focusing on what Obama says every minute...but it seems our error did indeed kill all those doctors, so an apology is in order, I don't see why that makes Obama the 'apologizer and chief' though...It should be obvious it is right to start with an apology.  Why would that be grumble-worthy?

Because an apology implies culpability. At this point I'm not convinced this was a mistake in that the pilot bombed/strafed the building without cause.

There were Taliban in the building and hospital compound. If the pilot was taking small arms fire from the building/compound he would have been justified in returning fire.

Doctors Without Borders have admitted there were Taliban fighters in the building but state they weren't armed. I find this hard to believe. Taliban don't just surrender their weapons in a building also occupied with Government soldiers in the middle of a firefight (that took Kunduz). It smells.

It would not be in DWB's best interest to admit they were allowing Taliban use of their compound/building as a safe haven to conduct military operations. That's why we have conflicting reports as to what actually happened.

I note that everyone talking about this incident refer to 'all those Doctors killed' (including yourself), in fact, there were no actual DWB 'Doctors' in the building at the time, they were all 'local' staffers. Edit: This is relevant in that anyone who's served in the Middle East knows that the 'locals' will not enforce the 'Regs', so to speak, when they're confronted with an armed terrorist who's also local and knows where you and your family live. Hell, they might even be related.

Not that I believe someone's profession or where they were born makes their lives any less/more important but there are a lot of assumptions being made by the media as to who exactly the casualties were, what the Taliban were doing in the building in the first place and whether or not it was nine casualties, 37 casualties, staffers, patients etc.

Apparently the Pentagon/Administration has already authorized "condolence payments" even though the investigations are still underway. That's just plain wrong.

Brass



« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 08:00:12 AM by Brasscasing »
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #219 on: October 11, 2015, 08:41:47 AM »

Syrian, Hezbollah, Iranian, and Russian forces have made major advancements the past few days. Obama's policies in the Middle East is in shambles and he abandoned the policy of training moderate rebels hostile to Assad and ISIS. Obama tried to solve the problems in the Middle East with doing as little as possible. Too little, too late. Russia saw an opening and they are fully committed in protecting Assad. Obama should either get tougher or get out of Syria entirely because going into this supporting rebels half heartedly are going to get them killed and waste our money.


My guess is Obama is going to lose this battle and the American backed rebels are going to be liquidated and headless. Assad may try to negotiate with ISIS giving them a safe place to operate in Syria as long as they don't touch him or Russia and continue to be a thorn in the West's side. Anybody see this thing turning out differently?


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-army-advances-west-russian-strikes-monitor-072722104.html
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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #220 on: October 11, 2015, 08:56:20 AM »
Syrian, Hezbollah, Iranian, and Russian forces have made major advancements the past few days. Obama's policies in the Middle East is in shambles and he abandoned the policy of training moderate rebels hostile to Assad and ISIS. Obama tried to solve the problems in the Middle East with doing as little as possible. Too little, too late. Russia saw an opening and they are fully committed in protecting Assad. Obama should either get tougher or get out of Syria entirely because going into this supporting rebels half heartedly are going to get them killed and waste our money.


My guess is Obama is going to lose this battle and the American backed rebels are going to be liquidated and headless.
Assad may try to negotiate with ISIS giving them a safe place to operate in Syria as long as they don't touch him or Russia and continue to be a thorn in the West's side. Anybody see this thing turning out differently?


http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-army-advances-west-russian-strikes-monitor-072722104.html

The formerly US backed freedom fighter leaders will negotiate and switch sides if they can, either joining IS or Assad, imo. They've no choice.  For all practical purposes they've been abandoned (thrown away).

Brass
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 08:59:37 AM by Brasscasing »
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #221 on: October 11, 2015, 09:26:30 AM »
Because an apology implies culpability. At this point I'm not convinced this was a mistake in that the pilot bombed/strafed the building without cause.

There were Taliban in the building and hospital compound. If the pilot was taking small arms fire from the building/compound he would have been justified in returning fire.

 
We are culpable. 

Bombing the hospital is a little more than 'returning fire'.   It should have been obvious that the building was a hospital..  It is also obvious if the pilot gets close enough he will be shot at.    Another case where no options were good, so leave the scene and wait for a better opportunity.  This outcome is going to be costly in many respects.   Why exactly are we there now? Anybody?  We aren't going to 'win' any war there, that is for certain.

[/size]


Apparently the Pentagon/Administration has already authorized "condolence payments" even though the investigations are still underway. That's just plain wrong.

Brass

[/size]
 


The payments are probably just a way to brown nose before the local public ire escalates, but it is probably futile. 


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I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #222 on: October 11, 2015, 09:51:49 AM »
This article could be a bunch of trumped up baloney, but it states that China is stepping into the conflict on Russia's side to apparently destroy ISIS and the other US backed 'rebels', and keep the current elected leader Assad in power.    Sounds good to me. Many, if not most here in the states don't support the current US policies in the middle east anyway.   We never should have involved ourselves in trying to take out Assad, now we are either going to appear impotent or get involved in a larger war.  In my opinion, this is called getting our comeuppance.   


[size=78%]http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/100915-774990-china-joining-russia-to-humiliate-us-weakened-by-obama.htm?ref=yfp[/size]





[/size]China Joining Russia In Syria Brings Risks Of World War[size=78%]







American Decline: Chinese forces head to Syria to join with Russia in filling Obama's power vacuum and purportedly fight the Islamic State. A false move involving NATO member Turkey could mean world war.
Russian and Chinese military sources now confirm that Chinese warships are en route to the Middle East to get in on some of the action of humiliating the U.S.
In just a week and a half, Moscow has upended the dynamics of power in the Mideast by taking on the role that....





Fathertime!



I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #223 on: October 11, 2015, 10:43:33 AM »
We are culpable. 

In the real world there is no culpability until guilt is assigned. That's done through proper investigation. As I've already stated if the pilot was taking fire from that building, even if it was a hospital, he would be justified in returning fire. NATO, US ROEs make that clear.

Bombing the hospital is a little more than 'returning fire'.   It should have been obvious that the building was a hospital..  It is also obvious if the pilot gets close enough he will be shot at.    Another case where no options were good, so leave the scene and wait for a better opportunity.  This outcome is going to be costly in many respects.   Why exactly are we there now? Anybody?  We aren't going to 'win' any war there, that is for certain.

[/size] 

No, it was exactly 'returning fire' (if that's in fact what happened). If the Taliban were using the hospital as a shield thinking that they could target US planes/Government/Coalition forces with impunity then they were sadly mistaken. It is the equivalent of the Palestinians using school yards to launch missiles into Israel. At that point the hospital ceased being a humanitarian refuge and became a legitimate combat target. Terrorists don't get to blast away unimpeded just because they're shooting from behind a red cross flag.

You state "It is also obvious if the pilot gets close enough he will be shot at.    Another case where no options were good, so leave the scene and wait for a better opportunity."

This is false. If the pilot is conducting air strikes as part of a sanctioned combat mission and comes under fire from the very enemy faction he is suppressing then he/she will engage. Pilots do not simply abandon their mission because they're flying too close to the enemy in a fire fight and are getting shot at.

Quote
Why exactly are we there now? Anybody?  We aren't going to 'win' any war there, that is for certain.

We've already won the war. It's a matter of keeping the Taliban from retaking the country. We (NATO/Coalition) still have a presence there in support of the legitimate Afghani government. That's exactly why we are still there now. If NATO leaves, the same thing that happened in Iraq, will happen in Afghanistan.

The payments are probably just a way to brown nose before the local public ire escalates, but it is probably futile. 

Whatever the reasoning, Kunduz is currently under Taliban control. When/if the condolence payments are handed out. There will be a Taliban representative also right there with their hand out demanding and accepting the local population's US funded contribution to the Taliban cause. In return the Taliban won't throw acid into their daughters faces, blow up their houses, or murder their sons/brothers/fathers...this week.

Brass
« Last Edit: October 11, 2015, 10:45:39 AM by Brasscasing »
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The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #224 on: October 11, 2015, 11:07:45 AM »
Obama will be the only person sticking to Iran deal
By Amir Taheri New York Post

Sometime this week, President Obama is scheduled to sign an executive order to
meet the Oct. 15 “adoption day” he has set for the nuclear deal he says he has
made with Iran. According to the president’s timetable the next step would be
“the start day of implementation,” fixed for Dec. 15.

But as things now stand, Obama may end up being the only person in the world
to sign his much-wanted deal, in effect making a treaty with himself.

The Iranians have signed nothing and have no plans for doing so. The so-called
Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) has not even been discussed at the
Islamic Republic’s Council of Ministers. Nor has the Tehran government bothered
to even provide an official Persian translation of the 159-page text.

The Islamic Majlis, the ersatz parliament, is examining an unofficial text and is due
to express its views at an unspecified date in a document “running into more than
1,000 pages,” according to Mohsen Zakani, who heads the “examining committee.”
“The changes we seek would require substantial rewriting of the text,” he adds
enigmatically.

Nor have Britain, China, Germany, France and Russia, who were involved in the so-called
P5+1 talks that produced the JCPOA, deemed it necessary to provide the Obama “deal”
with any legal basis of their own. Obama’s partners have simply decided that the deal
he is promoting is really about lifting sanctions against Iran and nothing else.

So they have started doing just that without bothering about JCPOA’s other provisions.
Britain has lifted the ban on 22 Iranian banks and companies blacklisted because of alleged involvement in deals linked to the nuclear issue.

German trade with Iran has risen by 33 percent, making it the Islamic Republic’s
third-largest partner after China.

China has signed preliminary accords to help Iran build five more nuclear reactors.
Russia has started delivering S300 anti-aircraft missile systems and is engaged in
talks to sell Sukhoi planes to the Islamic Republic.

There is more read all about it here
http://nypost.com/2015/10/11/obama-will-be-the-only-person-sticking-to-iran-deal/
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