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Author Topic: New member seeking some guidance  (Read 34356 times)

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Offline John_A

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New member seeking some guidance
« on: October 27, 2015, 10:08:53 AM »
Hello everyone, I'm really glad to have found this forum, and looking for some advice here that would be gratefully received.

I met a Russian lady on Eharmony 2 months ago. I thought maybe she was too young or too far away so I let communication drop off, but a month ago she contacted me again and we hit it off. We have communicated every day since, she is a very decent and sweet girl who lives with her mother, teaches, and goes to school for her masters degree. We have skyped a few times, and she certainly appears to be who she says she is.

She's 27, I'm 42. She lives in Nakhodka (3 hrs south of Vladivostok), and I live in Oxford Mississippi (I'm a university professor originally from Michigan).

We started talking about logistics pretty early, and when it would be possible to meet. I mentioned that I could see her possibly during Spring Break, but I would only be able to stay about 5-6 days max because travel to that area is difficult, and my vacation is only 10 days long total. There' not much to see in her town but it would be to visit her and see her family, etc.

She told me it was very difficult for Russians to get a visa to the US, and I mentioned the possibility of getting a fiancee visa, and I was kind of under the impression that I would meet her, we would get engaged (meeting first is a requirement), and that would facilitate her getting a visa here, where she would come for a few weeks and we could marry. This morning she told me that, after my visit there (in March), she would rather try to get a guest visa so she could come here and visit before we got engaged. . . she wants to see what it is like, meet my family, etc.

Well, the visit there in March will take up a lot of time and energy (and money) on my part (for a very short visit of only 5 days or so), and I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the possibility that she might have a hard time visiting America on a tourist/guest visa. Plus she wants to finish her studies there, which would mean that she would not have a free hand to move here permanently until March of 2017. To me this is a bit irrational seeing she could probably easily get an MA at my institution for free, and are having a slight disagreement about this (without fighting). I support her education (and can deliver for her), its just that her insistence on finishing there . . .  its postponing the time to when we could be together until a year and a half.

Now I'm starting the process by getting my passport renewed, there is still plenty of time until March, and I have a number of questions and I'm hoping someone could help:

1. What type of Visa should I shoot for? She says she asked Russian immigration, and they said a guest visa. I looked at the requirements for this and they look like a bureaucratic nightmare. It appears that a tourist visa would make more sense but she says that's not what immigration told her and that I would have to go through a tourist company that would provide an itinerary, etc. I will be staying at a hotel anyway when I visit there, so I don't see how it would be such a problem to get a letter of invitation from there, etc.

2. After I visit, she wants to visit the US 3 months later on a guest/tourist visa, not a fiancee visa. For how long, I don't know, maybe a few weeks. Does this make sense? Is this what people do? Would it be worth the time and effort to visit in March if, as it appears, these types of visas to the US are very hard for Russians to get?

It could be that she herself is a bit confused and there is a conflict of expectations here. Could anyone please provide advice and perspective? It would be much appreciated.

Thank you.


Offline Nightwish

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2015, 10:19:59 AM »
I'm no american so I cant tell you anything about visa.

But the other question, you think its strange she first wants to visit a country, a man, and see his family before jumping in to a marriage?
Your expectations seems a little out of time. Its not mail-order-bride this anymore.
Of course she wants to know what she would be moving to, she would be completely at your mercy once she got there, so that she wants to get a first hand look at what her life would be I think is very healthy, makes me believe she is very serious about the relationship and not only getting a green card out of it.

my two..., no one cent only, inflation ya know.. :)

Multitasking means screwing up several things at once.

Offline Miquel Westano

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2015, 10:30:07 AM »
Hello everyone, I'm really glad to have found this forum, and looking for some advice here that would be gratefully received.

I met a Russian lady on Eharmony 2 months ago. I thought maybe she was too young or too far away so I let communication drop off, but a month ago she contacted me again and we hit it off. We have communicated every day since, she is a very decent and sweet girl who lives with her mother, teaches, and goes to school for her masters degree. We have skyped a few times, and she certainly appears to be who she says she is.

She's 27, I'm 42. She lives in Nakhodka (3 hrs south of Vladivostok), and I live in Oxford Mississippi (I'm a university professor originally from Michigan).

We started talking about logistics pretty early, and when it would be possible to meet. I mentioned that I could see her possibly during Spring Break, but I would only be able to stay about 5-6 days max because travel to that area is difficult, and my vacation is only 10 days long total. There' not much to see in her town but it would be to visit her and see her family, etc.

She told me it was very difficult for Russians to get a visa to the US, and I mentioned the possibility of getting a fiancee visa, and I was kind of under the impression that I would meet her, we would get engaged (meeting first is a requirement), and that would facilitate her getting a visa here, where she would come for a few weeks and we could marry. This morning she told me that, after my visit there (in March), she would rather try to get a guest visa so she could come here and visit before we got engaged. . . she wants to see what it is like, meet my family, etc.

Well, the visit there in March will take up a lot of time and energy (and money) on my part (for a very short visit of only 5 days or so), and I'm having a hard time wrapping my mind around the possibility that she might have a hard time visiting America on a tourist/guest visa. Plus she wants to finish her studies there, which would mean that she would not have a free hand to move here permanently until March of 2017. To me this is a bit irrational seeing she could probably easily get an MA at my institution for free, and are having a slight disagreement about this (without fighting). I support her education (and can deliver for her), its just that her insistence on finishing there . . .  its postponing the time to when we could be together until a year and a half.

Now I'm starting the process by getting my passport renewed, there is still plenty of time until March, and I have a number of questions and I'm hoping someone could help:

1. What type of Visa should I shoot for? She says she asked Russian immigration, and they said a guest visa. I looked at the requirements for this and they look like a bureaucratic nightmare. It appears that a tourist visa would make more sense but she says that's not what immigration told her and that I would have to go through a tourist company that would provide an itinerary, etc. I will be staying at a hotel anyway when I visit there, so I don't see how it would be such a problem to get a letter of invitation from there, etc.

2. After I visit, she wants to visit the US 3 months later on a guest/tourist visa, not a fiancee visa. For how long, I don't know, maybe a few weeks. Does this make sense? Is this what people do? Would it be worth the time and effort to visit in March if, as it appears, these types of visas to the US are very hard for Russians to get?

It could be that she herself is a bit confused and there is a conflict of expectations here. Could anyone please provide advice and perspective? It would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

Who knows?  But if she starts asking for money, then it would be a red flag.  Up until then, she may just have a lot of concerns that are pretty legit.  I have read a lot of stories of guys telling girls all kinds of tall tales about their jobs, lifestyles and living arrangements.  If she takes the plunge on a fiancé visa and you are not what you say, my understanding is she may not be able to apply for another one.  I would never move to another country without knowing what I was getting in to.  It sounds like she may just be smart and practical.

Offline 2tallbill

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New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2015, 10:42:10 AM »
Hello everyone, I'm really glad to have found this forum, and looking for some advice here that would be gratefully received.

I met a Russian lady on Eharmony 2 months ago. I thought maybe she was too young or too far away so I let communication drop off, but a month ago she contacted me again and we hit it off. We have communicated every day since, she is a very decent and sweet girl who lives with her mother, teaches, and goes to school for her masters degree. We have skyped a few times, and she certainly appears to be who she says she is.

She's 27, I'm 42. She lives in Nakhodka (3 hrs south of Vladivostok), and I live in Oxford Mississippi (I'm a university professor originally from Michigan).

You need to get on a plane and meet the girl. I sure wouldn't wait until Spring Break to go see her.
You surely have off time for Christmas. A 17 year age gap is pushing the envelope a bit.

She told me it was very difficult for Russians to get a visa to the US, and I mentioned the possibility of getting a fiancee visa, and I was kind of under the impression that I would meet her, we would get engaged (meeting first is a requirement), and that would facilitate her getting a visa here, where she would come for a few weeks and we could marry. This morning she told me that, after my visit there (in March), she would rather try to get a guest visa so she could come here and visit before we got engaged. . . she wants to see what it is like, meet my family, etc.


1. Get on a plane to see her as soon as possible.
2. Everything else is cRaZy talk
3. Be cautiously optimistic

You are talking about getting engaged with a woman you haven't met in person. STOP,
you don't even know if you have any mutual chemistry. You won't know until you see
each other face to face. I know, it's happened to me more than once. You can read about
my experience here http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=3432.0

Go see her and then if you like each other go see her again in the Spring. Until you meet you
are pen pals. It's not that difficult to get a tourist visa to the USA for a Russian. However, you
might have to put a few thousand bucks into her bank account. DO NOT do this before meeting
her.

Whatever you do, don't marry a girl that you don't know. I made 4 trips to meet my now wife
and she made two trips to visit me.

Udachi!

Bill
« Last Edit: October 27, 2015, 10:44:13 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Muzh

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2015, 10:46:14 AM »
Hi John,


Let's answer your questions.


1) If you are staying at a hotel get a tourist visa. She can send you a letter inviting you to come visit her. The hotel should be able to register you with the proper authorities.
2) That is subjective. Does it make sense? My BS sensor is telling me no.


Now, here is some unsolicited advise.


If you don't have the money to do the initial process, please stay home and concentrate on the graduate student babes.
That she will not come to the US until after 2017 is BS, especially when she is getting her diploma for free. There is an old Russian saying: "You never decline a free meal."


You have until March to make a decision. Please hone your BS sensor and play along. Time will tell.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline John_A

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2015, 10:49:42 AM »
Thank you all very much. I'm soaking this up like a sponge!

John

Offline cc3

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2015, 06:23:51 PM »
John, welcome to the RWD forum.

Informationally, Transaero has ceased operations to Vladivostok. Airfares between there and Moscow are skyrocketing to the point that most residents feel totally cutoff from the rest of the nation.

Offline Gator

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #7 on: October 27, 2015, 07:48:17 PM »
John, welcome.

Sincere Russian women would never talk about marriage prior to meeting you.  In fact, she may think your finacee visa talk is both premature and silly (as in "unserious").

You need to meet this woman before making huge plans.  A couple of times I spent months conversing with a RW and then traveling with high expectations to her city only to crash in less than a  day after meeting.  It has happened to many men.     

As a professor, don't you have two weeks off at Christmas?   She will have much time off too.  The two of you could meet in Thailand or some other place warm.  Flights are expensive then, yet traveling to Thailand is much quicker  than to Nakhodka. 

If the Thailand holiday goes well, you should consider facilitating for her a student visa to come to Oxford and study English for a semester.  Your university perhaps has such a program for international students.   If you want to take a risk without meeting her, you should start applying now for the spring semester. 

It delays her completion of her Russian university studies, yet she should benefit from the intensive classes in English. 

Again, no talk of marriage. 

There is an excellent 2006 Vladivostok  trip report in the archives by Muckracker describing his fairy tale that came true:

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=1976.0

Offline BillyB

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2015, 10:14:58 PM »
But if she starts asking for money, then it would be a red flag. 



There are costs to the tourist visa to America she wants to apply for and the trip to America if she's accepted. Guess who has to pay for that? Money may have already been asked for in an indirect way.


JohnA, welcome to the forum. There are some unknowns in your situation that would make me hesitate to visit the woman. Her living off the beaten path isn't a big concern. Cost and the hassle to get to her will be worth it if she's a quality woman. The unknown is that she will not be able to decide to marry you based off your visits to Russia. It seems she needs to see your lifestyle and living conditions before being able to decide on marrying you. Chances are she's not going to get a tourist visa to America. Then what? Can she make a decision on marriage based on you alone or will you have wasted valuable time pursing this woman?
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline whynotme

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2015, 03:52:44 AM »
If you have kids and ex-wives and make less then 100K per year, better stay home and don’t read my answer.  :D
Judging by your post, you are very far even from USA reality not only Russian.
Firstly, if you’ll drive 3 hours south of Vladivostok, it will be Japan not Nakhodka. May be it is not much to see here for your girl, but I bet not much to see in your place also. I completely agree before making decision she need to visit your small town on tourist visa. I agreed to marry my husband when I saw his place and didn’t like it at all.  :D USA is not the best place in the world for living for many people, especially Missisippi for Russians. If she’ll agree it might mean more than just greencard girl.
B1/B2 visa is possible to obtain if she’ll show enough evidence that she’ll be back. She is a student continuing her education, so it may work. She just need not to mention about her boyfriend in USA and may be choose another destination with more tourist attractions. There is American consulate in Vladivostok, just 160$ fee for interview. Student visa is an option if she or you have 20,000$ on your bank account (it is how much a year of intensive English will cost), but nobody guarantee she'll get it. I'm grateful that my daughter was denied a student visa and she is getting her MA in biotechnology at the Moscow University for free now, not taking English classes in unknown CC in WA for big money.
Btw, I would like to know how you are planning to get her MA diploma for free; is it mean you have such a low income to apply for financial aid? Let her finish her education in Russia because 1,5 years are really nothing in international dating. Nobody will approve your K1 petition without meetings in real life. Now you know how to spend that time if you have serious plans. Take a plane and visit her first. March might be not the best time, but it will be just a short trip. Get tourist visa. I don’t recommend your girl to organize guest visa for you, probably she can’t do it herself anyway if she lives with mother and has no income. I did it once but for person I knew well enough before. Tourist visas are easy to get for Americans, hotel where you’ll stay does all paperwork you need. Btw, they are planning to make Vladivostok visa free zone from January,1, foreigners can stay here without visas for 8 days, so you can wait for more information.

Miquel Westano, girl may apply for another K1 visa without problem if her case will be closed and of course not in next few weeks.
 
Airfares between there and Moscow are skyrocketing to the point that most residents feel totally cutoff from the rest of the nation <<< bulshit, there was a temporary problem. Aeroflot has their usual prices, I just checked. Transaero was not the only company doing flights in the area, and our guy has a great choice going through Korea, Japan or China to Vladivostok.

Before you'll confuse the girl's head, think well especially about your finances. I can give some advices about trip if you need any via private messages, I'm from Vladivostok myself. Just curious what degree your girl is getting in Nakhodka, I thought all MA programs are in Vladivostok. It is not for doubts in your girl, I'm just wondering.

Offline John_A

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2015, 10:20:47 AM »
Hi there, thank you all for the replies!

"If you have kids and ex-wives and make less then 100K per year, better stay home and don’t read my answer."

I don't have kids or ex-wives. I don't make that but I make close.

True, I do live in a small town, but it is the seat of the most important state university, is very diverse, and only 1 hr away from a large metropolitan area. This has been explained to her. There are happy Russians living in this town.

Her MA diploma would be free if she entered graduate school here and received a fellowship that would pay for her tuition and a living stipend. I'm quite confident that with her talent, she could do it. Research or teaching assistantships are common. She is very adamant, however, about finishing the MA degree she started there. She travels 3 hrs on the weekends from Nakhodka to go to Ussarisk for classes. To me it is a bit frustrating as it would create complications regarding when she could live permanently in the US. . . she absolutely refuses to entertain the idea of starting over here, and is very sensitive when I bring up the option. When we look at the earliest she could stay here (in March 2017), she says and absolutely insists she would have to go back to Russia a few months later anyway to defend her thesis, and seems to imply that we should wait until that process is complete before she would live here permanently.

This all arose unexpectedly and it is just sinking in what the process would entail. Basically it appears that I would spend 5-6 days in nakhodka in March, she would come here on a tourist Visa in the Summer, and if everything appeared hunky-dorey we would get married and start a spousal visa process. This would take 8 months, but she wouldn't be completely free until she defends and completes her degree, which would be May/June 2017.

It is very clear that she will not let anything get in the way of finishing the degree she started. It is likely that she foresaw how long this process would take (she assists people who have these types of relationships with translation expertise) and decided to pursue a degree anyway because she knew how long it would take to have the visas cleared and all.

I know so much of this is jumping the gun but, as I said, this arose unexpectedly. I just decided to change my Eharmony search setting parameters on a whim and she came up. She initiated contact and re-initiated it a month later after I had let communication lapse.

So this option is completely new to me. . . its not like I went looking for a Russian lady to marry.

As I see what it entails, its hard to accept, and when she sees that, her feelings get hurt.

I like to look down the road at what this would all entail. It appears that in the 2 year or so process of completing everything, I would only have about a month or two of being with this person (assuming I visited her in December/January after her summer visit) before she would come to the US to live permanently. All told it would probably cost $15,000 or more, probably more. I mentioned the possibility of us meeting in Korea or something first and her response was that she would not be able to afford school if that were the case, so it appears I will probably be footing the majority of the bill here.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 10:33:17 AM by John_A »

Offline Muzh

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2015, 10:27:32 AM »
Keep looking down the road.  ;)
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline jone

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2015, 10:44:18 AM »
Get on a plane.  Nothing is even contemplated until the first meeting.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Gator

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2015, 01:46:03 PM »
....so it appears I will probably be footing the majority of the bill here.

Welcome to dating RW.  A strong man will take care of his woman.  While RW are long on pride and planning and other things, they are short on cash. 

If you want to go "Dutch," date your faculty. 

Offline John_A

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2015, 03:37:44 PM »
I'm having a bit of a negative experience here. She seems to be quite comfortable with the idea of waiting a long time to be with me permanently. When I told her it was likely we could be together by March 2017 and that really wasn't too long, she shot back defensively that she would need to be in Russia by May or June of that year to defend her Master's thesis. Now while I can understand that, she seems to be adamantly putting her foot down with little disappointment that it would keep us apart longer. I also told her how old I would be then and that we would need to start a family pretty soon after that and she was pretty offended at that too. . . like I wanted to rush her into having kids on a "bus" schedule. Man I'm stepping in it all over. Trying to come to some kind of understanding with this lady and feeling a bit walked over. She gets defensive any time I try to diffuse anything. She seems pretty comfortable with the idea of telling me to sit on it. I'm just reacting to the  realities that are sinking in and she takes it as criticism.


Offline jone

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2015, 03:50:53 PM »
It is important that you not be too invested in any one woman, especially someone you have not met in person.  Here you are proposing to take a good portion of your income for, essentially, one blind date.  If you can't see that such is a big risk, then you need to have someone kick you in the pants.

Until you have held her hand, kissed her, looked her in the eye and lived together for a bit, she is just an extended pen pal.  She is NOT someone to invest money into until you have.  Find the cheapest flight possible.  Fly to see her over the holidays.  And put off any judgement or decision making or cash spending until you do.

The pointers are mostly pointing down at this time.  There are so many women out there who would enjoy your company.   
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline John_A

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2015, 04:05:03 PM »
Ya got that one right. Been in the game long enough know that!

Offline Noch1

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #17 on: October 28, 2015, 04:33:53 PM »
Hi and welcome. Let me understand this, you have been talking on computer with a girl for a couple of months? you have marriage plans and timeline for kids?
Oh wait you haven't even met her yet :clue bat:
I do agree with covering major issues so both people are clear.
But that is wanting kids and marriage and cosy home.
But dates, timelines before meeting is crazy.
If your not prepared for a couple of years and many trips then your in the wrong game. Thats if your lucky and everything falls in place and you both have a real
life connection. You have heard of the putting the cart before the horse?
Well not only is your cart in front, its gone out of site. Back up and complete one step before planning 27 more.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2015, 10:30:24 PM by Noch1 »
Common sense, Is not so common!

Offline John_A

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #18 on: October 28, 2015, 04:45:44 PM »
Yeah, I may have inadvertently burned this one. . . lets see.

Offline Gator

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #19 on: October 28, 2015, 04:59:05 PM »
John,

This woman is not ready to move to America.  Currently there is some anti-America sentiment in Russia due to propaganda news.   If she wants to live in America, her Master's degree from Russia will not carry the same weight as a Master's Degree from America.  She is smart enough to realize that.   

And she certainly is not ready for children with you.   You keep tilting the conversations as if you are on a fast track, and she instead wants to get to know you in the same manner as if you resided in her city.

Who knows?  Maybe if you met, she would become more eager about considering marriage and completing her studies in the USA.  Currently, there seem to be too many unknowns to invest your time and money in her.  I say that not just because of timing issues, but because the two of you seem incompatible in an important part of a relationship - namely, conflict resolution.  Conflicts are inevitable, and whether a couple can resolve them pragmatically and achieve a win-win solution is so important in an enduring relationship. 

What is so special about this woman?  There are many sincere RW and UW with a high education who are interested in meeting someone like you.  You can find very intelligent women.  For example, I met through the marriage agencies a 43-yo IT professor.  I could barely stay up with her intellectual curiosity and the depth of her research of new subjects. 

So if this woman from the East has piqued your interest in RW, consider other RW.  Don't go to eharmony.   Instead go to the marriage agencies and examine the profiles.  It has been 10 years since I last studied profiles, and some of the other RWD members could direct you to the better sites.  You can find FSUW living in places with simpler travel connections, and some will be motivated to move to America. 

Offline Larry1

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #20 on: October 28, 2015, 05:35:11 PM »
Quote
All told it would probably cost $15,000 or more, probably more. I mentioned the possibility of us meeting in Korea or something first and her response was that she would not be able to afford school if that were the case, so it appears I will probably be footing the majority of the bill here.

1. Some guys have succeeded in this search having spent only $15,000 from beginning to getting the FSUW to the US, but I believe this is rare. you will probably have to spend considerably more than this figure. And that brings us to the next point:

2. As Gator mentioned above, the guy almost always foots the bill.

Offline Darth_Budda

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #21 on: October 28, 2015, 05:48:12 PM »
15,000 would be cheap... But it is not impossible.. I have not spent that much myself...
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Offline Larry1

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #22 on: October 28, 2015, 06:00:03 PM »
15,000 would be cheap... But it is not impossible.. I have not spent that much myself...

In my first FSUW relationship I had spent well under $15,000. We were engaged and I filed a K1 visa application, but we broke up only a few months before she would have arrived here. There's many a slip twixt cup and lip. And I maintain that international relationships are inherently fragile.

That said, I do know a guy who I'm fairly sure spent no more than 15,000 from the beginning of his search until he married the FSUW. If I remember correctly she was the first and only FSUW he ever visited.

Offline Betelgeuse

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #23 on: October 28, 2015, 06:11:38 PM »
You know her only two moths and alerady talking about marriage before you have met her?
Would make me feel conscious.
And of course it's normal she'd like to visit you before marriage. I'd say it would be strange if she didn't want to, then she must be desperate or just a green card girl :)

Anyway, good luck  :popcorn:

Offline alex330

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Re: New member seeking some guidance
« Reply #24 on: October 28, 2015, 06:15:47 PM »
I am friends with a guy that spent less than 5k. Total cost for him was two plane tickets to the US and an attorney.

I probably spent around 15-20k, most of that in trips to see her every few months or meet someone in the middle to keep the relationship going.

 

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