Trenchcoat's Further Theories on, and Experiences of, Dating in the FSU

[krimster2]

as Shakespeare said, "be NOT a dumb fornicator of mothers"
 

[2tallbill]

as Shakespeare said, "be NOT a dumb fornicator of mothers"

Hahaha, well said.



Just remember
Oscar Wilde said "But when you do so, don't make silly excuses about it."

[Trenchcoat]

Trench's Tiny Tale of Misfortune Due to Trench's Economic Misunderstanding

one day ole Trench was pondering
and he observed that the more money he makes, the more taxes he pays
however, Trench's goal is to pay as little taxes as possible, so as not to be exploited by the government
and the method he chose for doing that is...
to EARN LESS, thereby paying less taxes
OH, THE CLEVERNESS OF TRENCH!!!
one day, Trench will realize that if he quit his day job all together, and worked for himself, he will pay ZERO TAXES and he can make as much as he wants/can
and do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants
and live where he wants as well

OR

he can be lazy

guess, what Trench chose?

I know clever bear aren't I

You have to be careful with not paying taxes in the UK, you can be taken to the cleaners by the taxman if found out. They'll calculate what they believe they are owed to the most extreme and add a hefty fine. Unless you can prove you didn't avoid so much tax you'll be stuck with a huge bill. The taxman in the UK loves tax dodgers they can use them as a nice source of revenue for the government.

A part time job where you work the minimum hours like I do so you just get paid enough to pay minimal tax isn't a bad idea. For one you pay national insurance stamp so can get the full state pension. Secondly if you're not in paid work and not claiming unemployment benefit long term the tax man will wonder where you are getting your money from to live on.

Commonly the everyday guy who doesn't raise any suspicion isn't going to come to light by the tax man but if he or she does anything to come to light or someone else brings you to light then you don't want to be seen as doing anything that might look like you might potentially be dodging tax.

Working in the trades is a sure fire way to gain the tax man's interest. In the UK the tax man sees the trades as big potential tax dodgers. So trying to dodge tax there is probably the worst place to do it.

If you can use the government's tax break schemes then that's a good way to legally avoid tax and not drop yourself in the sh*t by being stupid. It only takes one slip up and even a small tax dodge and they will try and land the full whammy on you.

So in the UK you can have up to £12.5k income tax free before paying tax. You can have £7.5k on top of that for rent a room allowance. You can have ISA's that are completely tax free in cash for interest or shares. That's essentially the best way to go about it. The moment you do something where you should pay the tax but don't and aren't absolutely definite it won't show up you are leaving yourself liable for the taxman to take you to the cleaners.

Perhaps in the US the tax man is more slack at finding out about non payers but in the UK it's best to be real careful.

[Trenchcoat]

He that is good for making excuses is seldom good for anything else.
Benjamin Franklin

Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.
George Washington Carver

It is wise to direct your anger towards problems - not people; to focus your energies on answers - not excuses. William Arthur Ward

Most people don't have that willingness to break bad habits. They have a lot of excuses and they talk like victims. Carlos Santana

In football, the worst things are excuses. Excuses mean you cannot grow or move forward.
Pep Guardiola

Excuses destroy success every time.
Jon Taffer

It's part of my Special Forces training. You're taught to come up with a solutions, not look for excuses. Nirmal Purja


You can make a million excuses for why something didn't go well, but ultimately, just fix it and get on with it. Be a solutions person. Emily Weiss

If you make no excuses, there's nothing holding you back.
Travis Browne


People want a cop-out, listen I'm a realist and I talk about motivation, talk about all the things it takes to be greater or are important to win and people want to use excuses all the time.
Mike Ditka

I get it Beel You make a good point. It's not like I wish to hide behind excuses. Its really more that I can't do 'B' so well until I finish 'A'. 'A' being my house conversion it's nearly done but I'm going to take another week or so off work to shift it along a bit. But let's face it if I got serious with a girl and she said let's see your abode and you showed her a house in a mess it's not really going to help much now is it?

After all the girls out there in the first instance look at guys abroad as better providers and wealthier. I'm not saying you want one for those reasons but I need to show one of them that might be into me something half decent that she can see that she could have a life with me.

[2tallbill]

I get it Beel You make a good point. It's not like I wish to hide behind excuses. Its really more that I can't do 'B' so well until I finish 'A'. 'A' being my house conversion it's nearly done but I'm going to take another week or so off work to shift it along a bit. But let's face it if I got serious with a girl and she said let's see your abode and you showed her a house in a mess it's not really going to help much now is it?

You are not going to be done in a week (or a month)

[krimster2]

His Magesty's Revenue and Customs....
LOL!

fortune favors the bold, and not the timid
I am a ghost in the machine
how the sherriff gonna even see me?
he can't

I trust in my ability to always stay several steps "ahead of the man"
whether he's russian or american

risk is an essential element of reward
no risk, no reward

the only threat I faced in Russia was other gangstas
and not the gummit

I am light years ahead of the civil servants who'd be lookin for me
ain't no telescope big enuff for them to see me

it's why i'd be REAL good at trackin Russian assets in the west
criminals always know more about crime than the cops
laws make us criminals
and we become experts at the law much better than any "advocat"
and we know where the holes in the fences are, they don't

i'm done with that life

[2tallbill]

'A' being my house conversion it's nearly done but I'm going to take another week or so off work to shift it along a bit.

Surely your house conversion is finished by now.

[Bee Farmer]

Surely your house conversion is finished by now.

Didn't you see what he posted in another thread?

So managed to fish out a bargain last night and got an Armani casual/fashion shirt in the sale half price on the net, was £120 I got it for £60.

That shirt set his home project back about 3 months.

[Trenchcoat]

Surely your house conversion is finished by now.

I basically set myself up for a project that would prove way more long-winded than I had hoped. Time over again I would just really cut down on it all. I should have partitioned of the space, into 3 small bedrooms, done a quick cosmetic makeover, paved over front & back outside, removed the chimney breast and add a conservatory extension out back.

Instead I did ensuite toilets to every bedroom, reconfigured all the spaces, did a proper masonry extension, put in new stairs, went up into the loft, did a bit of a fancy garden out back and re-did the entranceway for nicer function & appeal.

So while I get a lot better building out of it all which is good long term it took way too long. At the moment just some bits inside to finish off and finish off in the upstairs loft room. So getting towards the end of it but stuff all takes longer than what you might first think. Nearly every job takes longer and everything gets set back. I'm not really one to skimp on jobs as it can bite you in the rear later, not always but I just like knowing the job has been done well and don't look shoddy or going to come back to haunt me.

So just the way it is in life really, to get anything decent can take a lot of effort and time input. It will look more substantial to a FSW at least. I can about get going soon getting over there as the remaining stuff on the house is small stuff and so altogether will be looking decent enough as sometimes it had looked like a bomb had hit the place.

Some people are fortunate in life to be born into very wealthy situations. While my family isn't poor it's not as wealthy as the very wealthy. A very wealthy dude can get looking abroad when he's quite young, spend much time looking and basically have a free hand at it. Kind of wish I had been in that situation but you are where you are in life and just have to go about the best you can.

[Trenchcoat]

Just kind of thinking tonight. Considering getting out to the FSU/messaging women. Not an easy one as the girl you choose would kind of decide the future and what you want it to be. On top of that there's no indication of chemistry in messaging so kind of like shooting in the dark

The usual, if I message too early I get a woman who wants to spend a week with me whether or not there is attraction, lol. I could ditch her if not as Bill suggests but can be a bit awkward.

I think I'll just have to do this on my terms and not get to bogged down in tying myself to certainties.

[Trenchcoat]

Ok, I've written to four girls tonight, all in Ukraine. A couple have one child, that's not too bad if they are open to having more, any more and it would kind of feel like bringing up someone else's family so a no go for me.

Decided I just need to go for girls where I think they look my type, where the look fits, or could fit. Kind of if I could see them the type of girl I could feel content waking up every morning and feeling content with. At the moment it's just to get some communication going so nothing serious. Just kind of see which if any I can get on with a bit over a bit of messaging then we'll see.

Always kind of have a thing for Ukrainian girls so although they aren't that easy to get to these days its kind of what I'm comfortable with at the moment.

[2tallbill]

Didn't you see what he posted in another thread?

That shirt set his home project back about 3 months.

hahaha

[rwd123]

Paul Perkenstein has more hope than Trench.

[krimster2]

do NOT reach for the wooden speck in Trench's eye
when YOU got a whole freakin tree trunk stuck in your own eye (gospel of Thomas, but there ain't no koine greek. ahramaic, or hebrew word for freakin)

given a choice, id rather be Trench than be you
however poorly Trench's vision is
he can always get glasses
ain't  no body gonna help you  cobber
least of all YOU

best to remain silent, and be thought a fool
than to "sheet post" about someone else
and remove any and all doubt about it

at least he is personable
you ain't

you wanna poke fun at somebody?
well, I'm your huckleberry...
go ahead swagman

[Trenchcoat]

do NOT reach for the wooden speck in Trench's eye
when YOU got a whole freakin tree trunk stuck in your own eye (gospel of Thomas, but there ain't no koine greek. ahramaic, or hebrew word for freakin)

given a choice, id rather be Trench than be you
however poorly Trench's vision is
he can always get glasses
ain't  no body gonna help you  cobber
least of all YOU

best to remain silent, and be thought a fool
than to "sheet post" about someone else
and remove any and all doubt about it

at least he is personable
you ain't

you wanna poke fun at somebody?
well, I'm your huckleberry...
go ahead swagman

Great to see you back Krim and alive! I had feared the worst when you suddenly disappeared. This forum certainly wasn't the same without you, in fact it was pretty much dead, on its knees.

[krimster2]

no one else thinks about your personal failures as much as you do so yourself, and that as long as you don't give up, you can always try again

[krimster2]

http://www.thefp.com/p/young-men-who-dropped-out-of-dating-pool

good article for you Trench
but their analysis is incomplete
they don't discuss the topic of mental "strength"

a lotta people face an uphill struggle just tryin to be happy
your struggle is a small hill compared to the mountains that many others face
everyone who quits the race looks the same
but those who climb to the peak all look different

real mental strength is not measured by controlling others
instead, it's how you control yourself
world class athletes put a lot of work into training which requires self control
you're the guy trying to run a marathon, who didn't pay the price it takes to be a winner
so you pay the price for it by losing

you can only get a gold medal by outcompeting your competitors
very few people are "naturals" as-is
everyone else has to work hard to get there
yeah, it's a struggle....

 

[Trenchcoat]

http://www.thefp.com/p/young-men-who-dropped-out-of-dating-pool

good article for you Trench
but their analysis is incomplete
they don't discuss the topic of mental "strength"

a lotta people face an uphill struggle just tryin to be happy
your struggle is a small hill compared to the mountains that many others face
everyone who quits the race looks the same
but those who climb to the peak all look different

real mental strength is not measured by controlling others
instead, it's how you control yourself
world class athletes put a lot of work into training which requires self control
you're the guy trying to run a marathon, who didn't pay the price it takes to be a winner
so you pay the price for it by losing

you can only get a gold medal by outcompeting your competitors
very few people are "naturals" as-is
everyone else has to work hard to get there
yeah, it's a struggle....

Thanks Krim, an interesting article. Well I have two of the 666 so 66, six foot and six inches down below

I also have a couple of College degrees. Would live in the US if I could maybe my chances would be better there than the UK.

The article kind of says what I've been saying for a long while now, that people aren't getting together like they used to and that it's all skewed these days. The guys at the top, much if what might be genetic are getting it all and even some of them apparently stress over it.

So a lot can be pre-determined. The 5'5" Security Guard can't grow an extra few inches. And height as the article shows can be a real bug bear with women. Though even for a taller guy like me I only get a look in with women that are undesirable, mostly. In essence Feminism has screwed up relationships & dating in the west. Sure we can talk about climbing the mountain but the cliff face was never as sheer as it is now, it's was more like a gentle slope before.

I think technology has made a lot of feminism desired possible also. Before we had nukes how many women would be happy to upset the balance. If they did men would likely turn around like I do now and say fine you go off to the front and get a sword, bullet, artillery shell, land mine go into you depending upon the era. I think most women used to shudder at that and be happy for the men to feel obligated to do so to defend what they had. Now so many men don't have anything much to defend as the women have taken it they are more likely to tell the women, screw you, you want it all there you go, I'm off, hasta la vista baby.

Not just nukes though, also stuff like microwaves, they came along and great, full dinners can be cooked in minutes. That liberated women to do other things. Might sound good but it breaks the cycle of mutual reliance between men and women. For men we have the problem of You Tube, back in the day a guy who was knowledgeable on DIY was worth his weight in gold now that knowledge can be had on You Tube for free. No more are men pestered by women in DIY stores wanting how to do something lol. Again it breaks the cycle of dependence between man and woman.

So on the one hand Feminism is upending the dating scene and on the other the co-dependency between men and women is breaking down.

Ukraine of course has microwaves but of course they no longer have nukes

As the article points out though in the west it's not just the men that are losing our but the women. That's something I have been keen to voice early on as it's something that is often missed. Everyday looking women have stupidly high expectations and seem to want a lot compared to what they are. Not only does the deal not live up for the guys they are aiming for it means as a result they just end up getting used for sex and left eventually disappointed.

Before we had a system that suited most and worked. Now we have a system that suits only too few and doesn't work. Why so many have to live a miserable life and even take the sad bs of 'virtual girlfriends' as a way to live life I don't know. The article detailed the weird hanging by a thread way these guys were working out their existence relying on such stuff, none of it was anywhere near a real life like people used to have. The women though are all trying to cram into trying to get hold of the same guys and that's never going to work out, the maths is pretty straightforward on that one lol. Worst still it kind of exposes women's values for what they are - they are really interested in the best providers and will shun those that aren't and that is really unfortunately all that most of them really care about.

The west is not a happy place to be and when the strife from all this properly follows through wait for society to start falling apart fast and for everything to stop working. Unhappy people don't make good workers or good anything else for that matter.

[Trenchcoat]

Thing is a lot of women tend to be real status snobs, most men don't care that much, only if it falls into their lap or is seen as needed to get the woman. Problem is they think that if they get a high status they deserve a guy that is even more so or at the very least (not so desirable) the same. Guys though don't care how high status a woman is, very few and not much at all. Guys just care about how pretty a girl is, it's how we're wired. Fortunately for them clothing and make up can help out a little to an extent but can't do it all. The gym can help also. So funny thing is, is when they get bamboozled wondering why the top guys take no interest in them lol. They think guys at the top would value them for their status

[krimster2]

only a single guy would consider multiple wives a desirable thing...
it ain't in reality

you are hard-wired to want what you want
maybe women are as well

whenever a new socio-economic trend arises
it effects people lower down the economic ladder first...
I think eventually every pretty woman, will be like Anna Nicole Smith
who was a fast food worker who was snapped up by a geriatric billionaire who liked pretty women as much as you do,

i've dealt with a LOT of entitled female narcissisitic behavior
they fit the definition of a parasite looking for a host
that's all they really are
is THAT what you want?

you need to act counter to your hard-wired instinct
and find a compatible woman to have a symbiotic relationship with
keep looks out of the picture
and just look at the person
it's far more important to live with a woman who doesn't feel entitled, cuz she's so danged pretty
stop thinking with your wee little we-we (six inches?)

do you judge your male friends on their looks?
no, then don't do it with women either
choosing a partner for their sex appeal is a bad idea
for many, many reasons
choose a partner who grows attached to you
rather than one you think is "hot"
so if you look at what your options are
you can find age and socio-economic similarity better in the UK than in Ukraine
but you'll have to give up on the idea of having kids and having a porn star wife
somethin' is always better than nothing

if I were you, it wouldn't be the lack of sex i'd miss the most due to being partnerless
but the companionship
it'd really be sad to be old and alone

if you know your ancestor's name, search ancestry.com for him
and you can trace his progeny to the current time
I'd be quite pleased to hear from a long lost relative from the UK
could be a good contact for you, ya never know

[Trenchcoat]

only a single guy would consider multiple wives a desirable thing...
it ain't in reality

you are hard-wired to want what you want
maybe women are as well

whenever a new socio-economic trend arises
it effects people lower down the economic ladder first...
I think eventually every pretty woman, will be like Anna Nicole Smith
who was a fast food worker who was snapped up by a geriatric billionaire who liked pretty women as much as you do,

i've dealt with a LOT of entitled female narcissisitic behavior
they fit the definition of a parasite looking for a host
that's all they really are
is THAT what you want?

you need to act counter to your hard-wired instinct
and find a compatible woman to have a symbiotic relationship with
keep looks out of the picture
and just look at the person
it's far more important to live with a woman who doesn't feel entitled, cuz she's so danged pretty
stop thinking with your wee little we-we (six inches?)

do you judge your male friends on their looks?
no, then don't do it with women either
choosing a partner for their sex appeal is a bad idea
for many, many reasons
choose a partner who grows attached to you
rather than one you think is "hot"
so if you look at what your options are
you can find age and socio-economic similarity better in the UK than in Ukraine
but you'll have to give up on the idea of having kids and having a porn star wife
somethin' is always better than nothing

if I were you, it wouldn't be the lack of sex i'd miss the most due to being partnerless
but the companionship
it'd really be sad to be old and alone

if you know your ancestor's name, search ancestry.com for him
and you can trace his progeny to the current time
I'd be quite pleased to hear from a long lost relative from the UK
could be a good contact for you, ya never know

When fully extended. Much more than that isn't much help to a girl as it keep hitting the back of the inside of her apparently which is apparently uncomfortable for her.

Partly it's down to how I naturally feel about a girl when I see her. If she seems into me and vice versa then I would be happy to go ahead. In the past it has tended to be fairly pretty girls but not exclusively, but of course they usually have loads of interest from other guys as well.

I don't think I'm alone in this, rarely is a phenomena just experienced by one individual. Many other guys are probably the same as me they get turned on by the hotter girls as a natural response, stands to reason. I think that's the problem with the system being changed that men are turned on by the hotter girls and more men consider they are eligible for them. In the past the guy would probably do the job he does and while finding the hotter girls attractive would know that what he has access too is all tied to the job he does (his social status). So reality would set in and it would be like, 'ok so I can only really realistically expect these girls' but now I think while women still think of social status in going out to get social status themselves, in competing against men, in wanting and getting equal pay, etc then the are rubbishing the old hierarchy system and with it the value system guys held with it. So now it's like, ok the girls didn't want that system so what's the game now? Men just don't know what females want anymore they just know they didn't like the old stratification system as it was so its an all to play for event with whoever you wish to have a stab at going for as far as men see. Men just aren't directed by the system as they used to be.

Then add to that online dating where the picture is the first thing you see, sometimes not even a profile write up. So there's often only the picture to go by. So do you go for a chick that you find ugly? That you don't think fits with you? Or one you find attractive, that also feels fits with you, that you feel comfortable choosing. If out there of course you could message girls all day for meet up and the longer out there the odds are that you might just call up the less attractive girls just to see what they are like.

Main thing is that the system in the west is just fucked up. So many people, men and women that are having their attention misdirected in the wrong way by a system feminism has brought about that just doesn't work. I guess it cuts down on the population though so perhaps that's what they wanted, the governments that brought in equal pay etc. Shame India didn't do anything about their population, it's mega huge in comparison to the western world.

[Trenchcoat]

I mean are pretty women even in the FSU good people to date? Well for sure like you point out Krim they can have the worst personality traits and so it can be that they never get to anything like a decent long term relationship, kids, etc. I don't know why apart from the above but it's that I just end up with hoping against it all, silly I guess it sounds but I just hope for a win through with a girl that I feel good about looks  wise and that a good relationship could develop on socialiably as well. Lining myself up for punishment for being in a dream world probably when such a girl becomes trouble but it's just what my mind fires away that it wants lol.

I think that's the thing, changing the system in the west has led to women's and men's basic instincts to be unleashed. Women are increasingly only caring about social status and a few other vain matters. Men are only caring about the vain matter of how pretty a woman is and possibly her tits and bum. All the stuff about whether he/she is a decent person has kind if been rendered almost negligible.

In the FSU most men there probably still concern themselves with whether a girl is a decent person and the pretty bad girls get left aside. Then again they still have the outlook of staying with them for life even if it doesn't always work out because if high divorce rate. Here the for life deal went decades ago, so you're no longer locked in hell with a bad girl whether you like it or not lol.

[Trenchcoat]

So I have come to a decision if a girl wanted me for character, the way I am, etc I would have gotten with a girl years ago. The only girls that showed interest and were serious were desperate girls, those a little overweight & underpar looks or girls who had baggage, etc. None of that ever excited me enough to date them. The society that once was that my parents had grown up in was passing as I got to my teenage years so I missed out there but no points lamenting that which now won't help me.

Instead, I'm decided upon the decision that some here will see as a bad move but I think is the best move for me. I don't think I would ever be happy with a girl who I didn't feel into or liked looks wise. I don't think a pretty girl or possibly most any girl would ever be interested in me for who I am in a natural attraction sort of way. Sure some out there have greater clout but me it's never sealed it for me.

So I've decided that I just want to reach a deal with a girl I find attractive looks wise, etc. and the FSU seems the best place to do that. It just makes most sense to me as searching for a girl who goes with me for me is a kind of aimless long trek going nowhere as I can see it. Better to put that time and effort to getting to a deal with a girl. I'm not so bothered if a girl cares that much for me, I'm not a child so it's not a big issue for me. If the girl is materialistic but reasonable demands then I would rather just satisfy that and get what I want, intimate times and kids and gain happiness out if that. To me as a western dude I can find that easier to satisfy than a load of guff about how to be, what approach to make, how to act with a girl etc, etc, yada, yada, yada, ad nauseam....

Materialistic girls at least I know their deal and how they function. All this others stuff just doesn't really line up with what I want. For me I think it could be that me and the materialistic girls are at both extreme ends that we actually may suit each other. Once we accept what the deal is and come to an understanding in that I think that is better than a lot of misunderstanding and jostling in a relationship.

I may not be the richest guy around but for a girl who is a bit above average in looks and is reasonable in what she wants it may be the best way forward. The relationship would be best kicked off in the FSU as my Great British Pound goes further out there, then see how it goes, but for me I am now definitely thinking that this is the way to head.

[krimster2]

LIFE is just a giant casino
you take the hand you're dealt and play it the best you can
sometimes ya win, but most of the time you're gonna lose

don't let the "perfect" be the enemy of the good (hope and change!!!)
to the point you ignore the good
cuz ya wanna ONLY get the big jackpot

you are on the age curve's downward slope
the odds of you hitting the jackpot. get less with each passing day
you need to recalibrate your expectations

in a couple of more years, AI will be generating most of the porn
ya'll gonna be worshipping a completly fabricated ideal depiction of a beautiful woman
that doesn't exist in "real life"

not too different from today's "natural" version
think about how a blind man would feel in your position
what good is a woman's hotness to him?
that which is below that thin veneer is WAY more important to him

Trench, you seem to get locked in to perceptions
that don't WORK for you
but you're too stubborn to let go of them
it's like you have some form of OCD
you HATE change to your life, instead of embracing it

if you don't change yourself, you'll never be lucky enuff to find ANYONE
who will help ya climb outta the hole you dug for yourself
you are totally focued on the wrong thing, and because of that you're gonna die in this hole
fantasizing the whole time you're down there, that a beautiful princess will help you out
stop believing in fairy tales, cuz only YOU will getcha outta that hole

in a sense, young man, you need to "wise-up" and stop pursuing a fantasy
and deal with reality


the direction the future is taking
makes it benefical to have a partner
instead of going solo
this is the problem you have
not the "gee-whiz" I wanna have my very own porn star problem

now go, and sin no more...

[Trenchcoat]

if you know your ancestor's name, search ancestry.com for him
and you can trace his progeny to the current time
I'd be quite pleased to hear from a long lost relative from the UK
could be a good contact for you, ya never know

Think I recall as its a few years ago that we discovered the link that the last records that we could look up took it up to around the 1950s then that was it due to privacy restrictions. I think they might have been done kids, some of the lives seem to have ended as sone if their offspring didn't have any kids and some did. Possibly might be able to trace a bit further on I don't know. Cross checking on the Ancestry site is a good idea, not sure if we tried that or if it didn't show anything up or a bit clunky at the time, that or just the UK version we could get up, etc

The records we looked up was from the Church of the Latter Day Saints (The Mormons) as they hold they're own records. A bit of a strange lot from looking online, I looked up the regular Mormons online. They seem attached to their polyester etc, lol. Usually always look a certain way, prim & proper like. Never been to Salt Lake City myself (or Utah) so don't know if they are all a bit like that there. I think you're right it might be interesting so might have another look sometimes and see what I can turf up. I know some genealogy tests also provide links though some may be dubious as to whether they are correct or not. Never done a genealogy test, I know some have hangs ups about who has access to records of your DNA but I'm not so sure it bothers me that much as I don't really have any issues as to why anyone, police etc would want to know.