Throw me a floatie!

[EasternSun]

Hi, I am in a bad situation, and doubt anything can be done about it, but figured I'd post here and see what others opinions are.  So I've been married for a year and a half, my wife still hasn't gone through the green card interview process because the date was scheduled after she already made plans to go home for a few months to visit family, and they still haven't sent a new date.  A little history of our relationship: it's been rocky from the start, and to be honest looking back we probably should not have gotten married.  She was very homesick after she moved here, but I assumed this would go away because all the Russian people I've met said it takes about a year to really acclimate.  But it really never got better, and I grew resentful of her always being miserable, and I admit I wasn't the loving husband I should have been.  I wasn't mean or abusive, but I definitely said some things about her behavior that I regret.  I also suspected that maybe she was here just for a green card, and for the future of her daughter, because why else would she be here and not put any effort into enjoying it?  So we had ups and downs (mostly downs) but I thought one day she would snap out of her funk and we could be happy.  That day never really came until she started discussing going home to visit.  I told her that was fine, I figured time away would do us both good and she could come back and we could start everything fresh.  It didn't happen as I thought.  She came back even more miserable than before, barely showed me any affection.  So 3 days after she came back I asked her what the problem was, and she informed me that she had decided to return home...permanently.  She said she realized how much she missed her friends, family, and country, and also realized how little she missed me while she was gone.  Obviously I was shocked, here I am hoping for a renewal of our relationship, while all this time she was plotting to leave.  She told me she just came back to tell me this in person, and is now trying to fund her trip back home.  I tried to get her to give us more time, but she won't hear it.  She's made up her mind, and nothing can change it.  I know it's over, but I suppose the potential exists that it could be salvaged.  Every day is a ticking clock though, I know once she gets the money for tickets there is no turning back, especially because she won't be able to make the interview once they schedule it, and more than likely she will never be allowed in the country again.  It is especially sad because her daughter has blossomed since coming here, she was shy, very small for her age, couldn't hardly speak at all, and very poorly behaved. Now she speaks 2 languages, has grown to normal size, and isn't shy at all!  I fear for her future the most.  It's troublesome how she is looking at this through the Russian "rose colored glasses".  She has no idea how she's going to support herself, let alone her daughter.  She even admitted that a lot of food prices have tripled since she was there last.  I suppose she can live off her parents like many of her siblings already do, but how is that a life to all be stuffed in a small apartment that is undergoing renovation (and has for the last couple of years)??  So if anyone has any advice, I'd be more than glad to hear it.  I wish for things to turn around, but I've exhausted all my available options. 

[ML]

Sorry, but I see no hope here at all.

On the bright side, you will be free from the 10 year support guarantee you gave which could have come into effect had she got Green Card, stayed in USA and separated from you.

I know it's hard to start over, but surely you must see it is for the best to not stay with a person who probably never even really liked you and was unhappy all the time.

I wish the best for your future.

Try Ukrainian next time; much better people.

[Boethius]

Do the right thing and pay for her ticket home.  Be happy she was honest with you.

[Wayne]

You might want to file for a divorce right away before she goes back to Russia. Perhaps the two of you can work it out together?

[Boethius]

Try Ukrainian next time; much better people.

No difference. 

[EasternSun]

Yeah, I figured that would be your answer, and I respect that.  I know if I could do it over again, it would have worked, but you already know what they say about hindsight.  I guess it might be for the better, she always had a dour mood, she says that just how Russians are (which I know is not completely true), and it's really hard to know how you stand with someone like that.  I never knew if I was doing something wrong, if it was her time of the month, it was going to rain, there was a full moon, etc....   I do love her, and especially her daughter though, so it's really difficult and I'll definitely hope for a miracle, even though I know it won't come.  If she does leave, I will try again with someone new, but I think I am better equipped now to know what to look for and what to avoid. 

[jone]

You're not married to her daughter.

When I was in my first marriage, our children always came first.  But I realize that such was wrong.  The relationship between the man and the woman comes first.  That way the children can see the happy relationship their parents have.  Do not torture yourself into thinking you could have done something different.   

This woman will dry up and in ten years go from a plum to a prune.  She will not have suitors in her country because of her daughter and her attitude.  Feel sorry for her, but live your life.

[Boethius]

I'm not certain I agree with anything in your post, jone.    

Relationships have ebbs and flows.  Children require your attention and by necessity, there will be times when they come first.   That's life, and in a mature relationship, partners understand this.

The woman may not have suitors in her country, but she was honest enough to tell him that she didn't miss him when she was away from him.  That's not a bad attitude, it's about marrying someone you're not in love with, probably because you don't want to be alone.

Women are not pieces of fruit.  FSUW may be used to that objectification, they may even enjoy it, but is that how you would like someone to describe your daughter?

[BillyB]

I do love her   

If you love her let her go  to a place she'll be happy.  Don't fool yourself into thinking your wife and her daughter will be better off with you than without you.  If mama is not happy, it won't make for a good situation for the daughter.  You didn't like seeing your wife miserable all the time , her daughter won't like it either.

[jone]

I'm not certain I agree with anything in your post, jone.    

Relationships have ebbs and flows.  Children require your attention and by necessity, there will be times when they come first.   That's life, and in a mature relationship, partners understand this.

The woman may not have suitors in her country, but she was honest enough to tell him that she didn't miss him when she was away from him.  That's not a bad attitude, it's about marrying someone you're not in love with, probably because you don't want to be alone.

Women are not pieces of fruit.  FSUW may be used to that objectification, they may even enjoy it, but is that how you would like someone to describe your daughter?

Hi Boe.

Actually that was mostly the better half talking.  We had a very similar discussion, only this morning.  When she read my response, she said "those are my words".  But I do happen to agree with them about the husband/wife relationship being more important than the children.  You and I both know I put a premium on creating a loving environment for children to thrive in.

As for the lady's opportunities back in Russia, I don't know her age.  But I do know that it is a geometrically unfavorable progression of a woman married (more than once?) and with a growing child as to finding a suitable mate.   Especially one that has attitude problems.  Has our Op asked his wife if she has a relationship back in Russia?

Please, don't get me wrong.  I have nothing but good wishes for  our Op and his Wife.  Unfortunately she sounds to me like someone who believes that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I believe we are approaching the problem from different perspectives.  And I respect yours.

[EasternSun]

Hi Boe.

Actually that was mostly the better half talking.  We had a very similar discussion, only this morning.  When she read my response, she said "those are my words".  But I do happen to agree with them about the husband/wife relationship being more important than the children.  You and I both know I put a premium on creating a loving environment for children to thrive in.

As for the lady's opportunities back in Russia, I don't know her age.  But I do know that it is a geometrically unfavorable progression of a woman married (more than once?) and with a growing child as to finding a suitable mate.   Especially one that has attitude problems.  Has our Op asked his wife if she has a relationship back in Russia?

Please, don't get me wrong.  I have nothing but good wishes for  our Op and his Wife.  Unfortunately she sounds to me like someone who believes that the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.

I believe we are approaching the problem from different perspectives.  And I respect yours.

I think you are right that many Russian women (at least the ones I've known) say the relationship between husband and wife is much more important than that between the children.  And yes, I did ask her if she had run into an old boyfriend, or a friend who she wants a relationship with, and she said no.  I don't have any reason to not believe her as she's never lied to me.  I really can't imagine she'd have an easy time finding a man, especially one to support both her and her daughter.  She's pretty (at least I think so) but she has no breasts, like at all.  Not even an A cup.  I never cared because I'm not that kind of guy, but I think I'm probably in the minority for sure. 

And you are right, I think she the type of person who thinks the grass is greener somewhere other than where she is.  The really odd thing is her stepfather is (or at least was) very abusive to her mother.  In fact my wife ended up in the hospital because of one of his tirades.  That was one of her reasons for wanting to come live with me, to be away from that and to be with someone who'd never do that to her.  So to want to go back to that confirms that she is looking at her life through a filter. 

[Slumba]

She is doing you a big favor, actually. 

Take it, tell her you are grateful for the time together that you did have, and that you really do wish her the best.  And yes, buy her a ticket ASAP.

Be grateful you are not getting divorce-raped, SERIOUSLY I mean that.

[EasternSun]

She is doing you a big favor, actually. 

Take it, tell her you are grateful for the time together that you did have, and that you really do wish her the best.  And yes, buy her a ticket ASAP.

Be grateful you are not getting divorce-raped, SERIOUSLY I mean that.

Oh I know, and that was one thing I feared.  We did have a prenup, but I know that I'd still end up paying for her had we gotten divorced later in life.  I'm actually kind of looking forward to meeting someone that shows me some affection, that is one thing that has been missing from my marriage from the beginning.  I am not really looking forward to starting that whole process over, but I guess I have no choice.  I doubt that I will bother dating locally, the thought of dating an American chick these days scares the hell out of me.  I'm around a lot of women and they are so far from what I'd ever want to be with. 

[Boethius]

No offence intended, but you're already thinking about a new wife before your current wife has even left your home.  What does that tell you about you?

A failed relationship is almost never 100% one party's fault, and were your wife to post here, I would hazard a guess she would have a very different take.  Look at your own role in the demise of your marriage.  Because if you don't, chances are your next relationship will fare no better.

[EasternSun]

No offense intended, but you're already thinking about a new wife before the current one has even left your home.  What does that tell you about you?

A failed relationship is almost never 100% one party's fault, and were your wife to post here, I would hazard a guess she would have a very different take.  Look at your own role in the demise of your marriage.  Because if you don't, chances are your next relationship will fare no better.

No, that is not what I was saying, all I was saying is that this marriage has been devoid of affection and if it ends (which seems 100% certain) it is probably for the best and I can move on to finding someone that I fit with better.  I never blamed my wife for what happened, I just wish she would have put more effort into the relationship.  It was my fault for resenting her for that.  We were both to blame for the current state.  I would like to think I've learned my lesson from this.

[BillyB]

you're already thinking about a new wife before your current wife has even left your home.  What does that tell you about you?

 A lot of men and women have looked towards the future before their marriages end. Easternsun  deep down knows the truth that his wife already checked out of the marriage long ago  before he did.

[2tallbill]

she informed me that she had decided to return home...permanently. 

EasternSun, sorry to hear your story but it doesn't sound like she wants to harvest
your organs or use your family jewels for target practice. I would advise five things.

1. Don't argue with her and get a quickie divorce
2. Get her on a plane back home and give her whatever money
 you can spare to get her settled back in the FSU.
3. Step back and analyze what you did right and wrong and what
you will do in the future to make sure that you don't repeat this.   
4. Never marry a girl you don't know
5. Make sure a girl is madly in love with you before marriage.

Udachi!

Bill

[Noch1]

If she wants to leave and she has been honest, not only would I pay the ticket,
I would help her out a little. You did marry her and she left her home.
Regardless of the reasons she is going back. Considering the laws, your are fortunate. Time to do what is right. Buy her the tickets, start the healing process.

[jone]

Geez, buddy,

She's pretty, but without an  attractive body (your words).  She has an inability to show affection.  You had a rocky relationship from the start. (Again, your words.)  And you've only been married a year and a half and your soon to be ex has made multiple trips back to Russia without you. 

It sounds like she cares for you and certainly is not heartless, but it also sounds to me like she never made the commitment to you in the first place.  We say it often here.  When a woman is into you ........

[Faux Pas]

You're hoping for it to heal but you know that it will not and, you are likely right. There seems to be a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking but it won't change a thing. You can try to maintain a relationship with the daughter and you should, if allowed.

Buy her return tickets for her to go home. Making her a prisoner isn't going to improve her feelings for you. It would appear she lost her respect for you if, she ever had it. The brass tacks are, some folks aren't able or capable of making such a move. She might be one of them despite her trying. By your own admission you likely wasn't as helpful in the transition as you could have been. It takes two to both make a relationship and break it up.

If you do love her, send her home but keep the communication open. Even then I would suggest you move on with your life. This relationship sounds completely beyond repair. Yet, stranger things have happened.

[ML]

Not related to OP, but just saw this when I was skimming Kyiv Post.

Dear Carolyn:  (Carolyn Hax started her advice column in 1997, after five years as a copy editor and news editor in Style and appears in over 200 newspapers.)

My honeymoon and marriage are in tatters because of two words I said on my wedding night. A few years ago, I was in a very intense relationship with “Rick.” When it ended, I swore I wouldn’t become so intimately involved with someone unless it was for life.

I met “Tom” shortly afterward, and knew he was “the one.” I shared with him my views on premarital sex but didn’t explain what happened or why. He completely supported me. We just married and had a beautiful reception, spending the night at a hotel near the airport because we were going to Europe for our honeymoon.

As things heated up between us, I accidentally said, “Oh, Rick.” I realized my mistake immediately, and the look of horror on my face was met by the look of hatred on his.

“Who’s Rick?!? Why are you thinking about Rick when you just married me?!?” It got really vicious. He called his parents and told them to set up a divorce attorney when he returned. Then he called my parents and introduced himself as “your future ex-son-in-law.” He asked them who Rick was and why I was moaning about him!

I pleaded with him for a chance to set things straight, but he quickly got dressed and took his suitcase and my passport with him, and told me not to follow him to Europe. The airlines couldn’t help because I didn’t have my passport, and when they tried to page him, he refused to talk to me. He’s not answering my calls, and the only text he answered was one where I suggested couples’ counseling. He said he’s not the one fantasizing about an old flame on our wedding night.

I’m trying to get a new passport, and wondering if I should get on a plane as soon as I can to try to salvage this. What should I do?

Wedding Night Disaster

Your honeymoon and marriage are in tatters because Tom reacted with absolutely stunning hostility to a quirk of the human brain.

Yes, his pain is understandable. Yes, yours was a huge mistake — and not just the fateful “two words,” which I’ll get to in a second. A person’s sense of self — or humor — would have to be formidable to take a slip like yours in stride.

But. For this to obliterate all of his supposed love and trust, plus any inner mandate to be kind? His commitment to you — as a human being, vs. as a bride or presumed virgin — can’t have been deep.

He didn’t just get sad or angry, or yell, or cancel the honeymoon — he went for your emotional jugular and hasn’t let go. He called your parents to shame you. Making mistakes, that’s life. Living in fear of his reaction to your next mistake, that’s hell.

This glimpse of his true character is a gift. Accept it and annul the marriage.

Take time to think before acting, sure. Get counseling, solo, with someone good. Heal. Forgive yourself.

And make a note for next time: Telling people the what (in this case, no premarital sex) without any hint at the why invites misunderstandings. The best way to know people is to let them know you, and better upfront than the morning after. I’m so sorry.

[JayH]

E Sun-- thread has offered good advice-- accept  and respect the reality and honesty  shown.Face your own failings and learn.

Most of the comments in thread are of the very sensible category--but a few need repeating to you--

EasternSun, sorry to hear your story but it doesn't sound like she wants to harvest
your organs or use your family jewels for target practice. I would advise five things.

1. Don't argue with her and get a quickie divorce
2. Get her on a plane back home and give her whatever money
 you can spare to get her settled back in the FSU.
3. Step back and analyze what you did right and wrong and what
you will do in the future to make sure that you don't repeat this.   
4. Never marry a girl you don't know
5. Make sure a girl is madly in love with you before marriage.

Udachi!

Bill

If she wants to leave and she has been honest, not only would I pay the ticket,
I would help her out a little. You did marry her and she left her home.
Regardless of the reasons she is going back. Considering the laws, your are fortunate. Time to do what is right. Buy her the tickets, start the healing process.

She is doing you a big favor, actually. 

Take it, tell her you are grateful for the time together that you did have, and that you really do wish her the best.  And yes, buy her a ticket ASAP.

Be grateful you are not getting divorce-raped, SERIOUSLY I mean that.

I'm not certain I agree with anything in your post, jone.    

Relationships have ebbs and flows.  Children require your attention and by necessity, there will be times when they come first.   That's life, and in a mature relationship, partners understand this.

The woman may not have suitors in her country, but she was honest enough to tell him that she didn't miss him when she was away from him.  That's not a bad attitude, it's about marrying someone you're not in love with, probably because you don't want to be alone.

Women are not pieces of fruit.  FSUW may be used to that objectification, they may even enjoy it, but is that how you would like someone to describe your daughter?

Do the right thing and pay for her ticket home.  Be happy she was honest with you.

Sorry, but I see no hope here at all.

On the bright side, you will be free from the 10 year support guarantee you gave which could have come into effect had she got Green Card, stayed in USA and separated from you.

I know it's hard to start over, but surely you must see it is for the best to not stay with a person who probably never even really liked you and was unhappy all the time.

I wish the best for your future.

Try Ukrainian next time; much better people.

[fathertime]

  She came back even more miserable than before, barely showed me any affection.  So 3 days after she came back I asked her what the problem was, and she informed me that she had decided to return home...permanently.  She said she realized how much she missed her friends, family, and country, and also realized how little she missed me while she was gone.  Obviously I was shocked, here I am hoping for a renewal of our relationship, while all this time she was plotting to leave.  She told me she just came back to tell me this in person, and is now trying to fund her trip back home.  I tried to get her to give us more time, but she won't hear it.  She's made up her mind, and nothing can change it.  I know it's over, but I suppose the potential exists that it could be salvaged. 

She told you want she wanted to do, you have given it a decent try, and she doesn't appreciate or love you enough to want to stay.  No shame in letting her go.  Then you can get back to your life, and she can get back to her's.   I'd recommend you get her that ticket back as soon as you commence divorce paperwork and get her signatures.  It shouldn't be long before you feel like a 200 pound weight is off your chest. 


Fathertime! 

[BillyB]

No shame in letting her go. 

And live a life single men would envy. Divorce isn't the end of the world and could lead to bigger and better things. If Easternsun doesn't make the same mistakes in evaluating women, he may find a winner.

her stepfather is (or at least was) very abusive to her mother.  In fact my wife ended up in the hospital because of one of his tirades.  That was one of her reasons for wanting to come live with me, to be away from that and to be with someone who'd never do that to her.  So to want to go back to that confirms that she is looking at her life through a filter. 

Don't try to rescue women and then marry them. Find a woman who has her life in order that's not trying to run away from problems. Finding a woman that wants you is better than finding a woman that needs you.

[southernX]

eastern sun

you have been given some good advice by BO & FP

my reading of this is along with theirs ,

 no 1 priority first , let this woman return home with her daughter as soon as possible , buy the tickets ,  give her some money to keep them both ok until they settle back in again

for you my friend , id suggest you sit down  and have along hard think about how ''YOU ' contributed to this break down between you both

this lady does not sound like any type of green card girl ,from what you have written , yet it seems you had that mind set going as a possible along with being her white knight and rescuing her

i may be wrong here , apologies if  so but it seems to me you made some rather big screw ups

you needed to be the solid one here in this relationship , put them first at all costs once you committed to this marriage , YOU needed to give them both [especially your wife ] time and emotional space to acclimatise to the new life they had moved into , not everyone makes the transition easily or seemlessly , its all very variable    ..   you expected to have an instant smiling happy wife who was all good and settled within 6- 12 months , somtimes that just does not happen ,

you role as the male was to keep the security , support and love big enough for all of them while they needed it most , now others may disagree , but imo you failed in this, and your wife quickly believed she had no reason to respect you or trust you let alone love you as you expected ,

so given that,    you in your tunnel vison pushed your expectations on her anyway , she never really had a chance to settle in & let her initial love for you grow as she would have been confronted by your insecuritys and set view of how the marriage must be ..  that then lead into disagreements with her  completly all wrong imo


you might think im being harsh , well maybe so , but my feelings are shaped by what you have told us so far
you need to understand its the man who must often stand and be strong during this new phase for your wife and child , support , love , committ to her and the child in all ways at all times ..all her instincts would have been confused by your actions , some good  [ in her mind  some bad ,]

that fact that she came back to settle with you and advise you she was leaving tells me she is upfront and honest and really has tried to her best with what you presented to her as you and the life she could expect with you

you need to seriously reflect on that , and try to do it from her perspective , as you really have failed them imo , not intentionaly, most likly due to not understanding what you had bought into and the role you needed to fill in that relationship ,

remember once you lost her respect , you lost any chance of her love , there was not enough glue to keep her with you , even though she and your tried , you where not all pulling in the same direction , merely pulling the relationship apart

i know you & others may not agree with me , but thats my honest feelings on what you have told us ,
she did what many of her peers probably would have done much quicker 

please reflect on this and take time to consider what you need to take away from this experience

SX