For the time being the photos stay. For those of you who oppose the story and/or the photos I would suggest you start a thread for that discussion. In the mean time, please stop polluting this thread with your repeated objections. Most by now understand you object. Your point is made. The OP has a story to share, allow him the latitude and the opportunity to get the thread back on topicYes, maybe sans response, and putting all of this crap in a second thread. I wish everyone would examine the title of his thread
This thread definitely needs to go in the sans response section. I would really like to read this story without all the garbage added in!!!!!
Class action happening here? Jumping to conclusions again people - he may not be keeping any photos, he did mention a thread on another site from years ago - perhaps he just copied the photos in from there?
Sorry that some are offended by that first picture.
For the rest of the pictures I really don't understand it, as they are harmless pictures of my lovely wife in public places.
No, he tested it first. Yesterday or a while this thread contained only first woman's photo with the words "test" :-)
As I understand it northkape, all the pictures except the first are of your wife.
Is that true?
Did not anyone else catch this?
But northkape, if the pictures are of your wife, why did you scatter them among the stories of the other women, which you surely knew would confuse readers?
No. The first two are women he'd known previously to his wife. One pic is of himself and another is of energetic MIL. Did you just look at the pictures and not read the post?
“All happy families are alike; each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way.” Leo Tolstoy
A bit boring, IMHO
I've always said that the most wonderful woman in the world has kindness and wisdom. Some would think me old fashioned but I still feel that those traits hold true today.
-j
Lol, ok, I will keep that in mind. Again, the story is boring, there are thousands of similar stories, however, millions of people in the world prefer to read about unfortunate Anna Karenina.
Lol, ok, I will keep that in mind. Again, the story is boring, there are thousands of similar stories, however, millions of people in the world prefer to read about unfortunate Anna Karenina.
Don't be such a wet blanket! Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about. As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)! It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.
I've always said that the most wonderful woman in the world has kindness and wisdom. Some would think me old fashioned but I still feel that those traits hold true today.
-j
Is Patrick still the planet love admin [does anybody know?]Patrick retired a long time ago.
Don't be such a wet blanket! Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about. As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)! It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.
I had told her earlier that I was writing with women from FSU for finding a wife.
...what I had fallen in love with.
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"
English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.
Jan
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"
English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.
Jan
Thanks for questioning my choice of words Mies.
I think I understand what you are thinking.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.
Think about it more like: "what is great about that person"
English is not my native language and I'm certainly not above making mistakes.
So if you or anyone else can convince me I'm wrong, I'm willing to listen.
Jan
Before we left for the long drive to Kiev we stopped at the top of the hill and looked back at Lena's hometown.
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R033.jpg)
This was what we were leaving behind.
The industrial town at the end of the road.
A meeting not recommended for your new RW
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/R044.jpg)
The girl I had been dating the year before marrying with Lena invited us to a party in Oslo.
A beautiful aircraft pilot three years older than Lena.
I had told her earlier that I was writing with women from FSU for finding a wife.
She never believed I would actually find one, and now she was curious to see what I had fallen in love with.
In the first years after marrying we often met former dates of mine and it was obvious to me that it was hard for Lena to hide her displeasure.
Later, when she understood that those were nothing but cold tracks from the past, she no longer cared.
What did you expect? You've married a really beautiful young woman from outside your own culture, who is over the moon to find such a great, caring man...and now you're introducing her to your ex-girlfriends? :cluebat: There are plenty of FSUW (probably even some on this forum ;D ) who would have walked out on you for doing something like this.
Jan,
what made you to post this thread now, 13 years later?
She never believed I would actually find one, and now she was curious to see what I had fallen in love with.
In my opinion however, "what" is correct for what I'm trying to tell.Yes, if your intention was ironic ;), or if "What sort of woman..." or similar was what you had originally in mind.
Beautiful story, beautiful couple, beautiful photos.
Thank you to share your story.
And yes, she is still good looking Mies
About learning the language.
The barrier that can make or brake your marriage.
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...
Don't be such a wet blanket! Of course there are thousands (even millions) of such stories (possibly, even, your own), but very few actually get written about. As an old-fashioned romantic, I would far rather read the occasional story like this than be constantly bombarded with doom, gloom and destruction (and that's only here on RWD)! It's nice to see what might possibly be in my future, even without the kids.
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...
And now on the other site he admits they are getting a divorce and he's in Ukraine looking for a new wife...
Jan,
what made you to post this thread now, 13 years later?
Ranetka;
That is a question I have been waiting for.
Not to be answered now however.
Why Ukraine again?
Because, if he had 13 happy years with the first edition, he will obviously have just as long with the second one...especially if the first one is acting as Quality Controller! :shock:
Because, if he had 13 happy years with the first edition, he will obviously have just as long with the second one...especially if the first one is acting as Quality Controller! :shock:
Are you kidding, Mies?
To go to Ukraine AGAIN and bring a woman of his age?
You're funny. 8)
So any way you cut it, men are pigs, right? .You said it. :D
Ah, I see- the boys are staying with Northkape so he is looking for a woman with a child and his present wife is helping him in it!
(http://s5.rimg.info/fc0b05812dc6528bf2fb94f23c9f690e.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-508138023.html)
Ah, I see- the boys are staying with Northkape so he is looking for a woman with a child and his present wife is helping him in it!
(http://s5.rimg.info/fc0b05812dc6528bf2fb94f23c9f690e.gif) (http://smayliki.ru/smilie-508138023.html)
which only proves Mies (and us) is totally right.
You said it, men are pigs (and women are bitches)
That's about all some are able to read out this tiny glimpse into my life with a "russian" wife………..
What fire,,,,,,,,
...comments from a few "armchair quarterbacks" representing a minuscule percentage of this worlds literate population.
I find some pleasure in writing this, as a way of philosophizing about my life, while memorizing it at the same time.
Also like myself, I think many of those reading here, enjoy reading "true to the life" stories illustrated with authentic photos.
It might, or not, inspire them, but those are my true audience.
Any intelligent woman with children understands immediately the harmony that must be present in a family like this.Sure. An intelligent woman with a child will be trapped (for a while) in this harmony.
Natural,,,,Wow, you even set up an advertisement website! Do all these women you are dating now know that you are a married man and your wife will live with you for the next year? What a bizarre story!
You said it, men are pigs (and women are bitches)
That's about all some are able to read out this tiny glimpse into my life with a "russian" wife………..
What fire,,,,,,,,
...comments from a few "armchair quarterbacks" representing a minuscule percentage of this worlds literate population.
I find some pleasure in writing this, as a way of philosophizing about my life, while memorizing it at the same time.
Also like myself, I think many of those reading here, enjoy reading "true to the life" stories illustrated with authentic photos.
It might, or not, inspire them, but those are my true audience.
I understand the worries about my boys.
They don't know about the divorce yet, and won't for a long time. We will tell it piece by piece in the coming year.
Lena will drive from us to work monday morning and return to us after work thursday evening (working at home one day a week)
My hometown is an hour away from where she works so my boys are glad she no longer needs to drive back and forth every day.
They have actvities after school all week so there won't be any change at all in the first year to come.
We both love our boys above all things, and all decisions were made to not harm them in any way.
Lena was willing to drop her career and find work locally,,,,, splitting custody 50/50.
But knowing how hard she has worked for it, for so many years, I agreed to taking care of them as much as necessary, and she having them as much as possible for her.
This small web page might give some insight into our life with the boys.
http://northkape.com/pictures (http://northkape.com/pictures)
It's a part of the scheme I set up for finding the right woman, (more about that later).
Any intelligent woman with children understands immediately the harmony that must be present in a family like this.
Back to present day realities.
Yesterday I drove all the way from Kremenchug to Kharkov just to meet a single woman.
One I have communicated with somewhat sporadically for the last two months.
Educated with a nice job and a smart son she is very proud of.
I had mailed her this week about coming to visit friday or saturday and she had confirmed.
Before starting to drive I called her on the phone (first time).
She was a little confused, but then with a very happy voice told me she would be glad to meet with me later in the day.
Then an hour later I called again, telling my approximate arrival time in two hours. I was a little confused also from one small detail.
This was a lady who claimed to have only basic understanding
of english, but here she was understanding and answering in english.
Well I called again after Poltava to discuss an "easy to find" place to meet. We agreed upon Mc.Donalds in Prospect Lenina.
Then a few minutes before my expected arrival time she calls (from another phone number), a little irritated, telling me she is waiting in front of Mc.Donalds.
I tell her I'm stuck in heavy traffic inside town but will be there in 10-15 minutes.
15 minutes later I'm unable to find her and she is not answering her phone.
I call the other number and she answers a little surprised,,,,,,,
telling me she had to drive back to her work (at seven saturday evening) and that she will call me within an hour about where to meet.
What a joke,,, feeling very happy that I didn't have to spend an evening of my time fndng it out
(along with a dinner and one of Lena's handpicked perfume bottles, had twenty of them to start with when arriving here)
I jumped into the car and started on the long drive to Kiev, of course she never called.
Driving into the night, I woke up sitting in the car a couple of hours ago.
Now I plan to find a place for a shower and then start calling the list of prospects I have in the Kiev area.
Jan
Пит, мормоны нервно курят в сторонке, так как они хоть жен не выгоняют.
Хотя, я видела эти кинухи про них.
Then, guys, I will never understand this "harmony" when a married man is dating other women being on vacation with his wife and sons.
Is this called "harmony"?
So, somebody "didn't have time to file for the divorce" but has time to date the crowd)) of "new women"?
Lena helps her husband (harmony) to date?
Then the translation of the "harmony" for a "new" wife is- she is going to wrap her (AND her kid's) life around the father and the boys.
История совершенно сюрреилистичная :popcorn:
Looked at the website. Dozens of the kids' photos. Only two photos in the our home section: kitchen and bedroom. I have a caption for North: "and these are the two areas where you will perform most of your job duties". ;D ;D
Anotherkiwi, it is weirdest if you believe North when he says about "13 happy years of marriage".
Don't worry, Doll - I'm most definitely a guy, and even I think this has got to be the weirdest setup I've ever seen. :cluebat:
They are missing but can be easily "guessed".
Poor Lena.
What can make a FSU woman go to Ukraine with her soon-to-be ex husband and help him to date many other Ukrainian women who this "soon-to-be" wants to marry?
My versions:
1) total insanity
2) despair
3) certain promises to let her keep the kids
4) emotional abuse (blackmail)
Agree, girls?
Anotherkiwi, it is weirdest if you believe North when he says about "13 happy years of marriage".
Then he says they've been talking divorce "all the time" (for a while).
But this is nothing. "Something" is that a FSU woman agrees to go to Ukraine and help him to date while still married.
My strongest version- Lena is promised (in exchange) to keep the boys.
And sure- North's dates all know about him being married and intending to live with his wife for another year. >:D
Or is it another form of adultery?
Bingo???????????????? >:D
Why Ukraine again?
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.
. . . Norway is about the most feminine country there is . . .
What happened to the descendants of Erik the Red and Leif?They migrated elsewhere ;):
They are missing but can be easily "guessed".
Poor Lena.
What can make a FSU woman go to Ukraine with her soon-to-be ex husband and help him to date many other Ukrainian women who this "soon-to-be" wants to marry?
My versions:
1) total insanity
2) despair
3) certain promises to let her keep the kids
4) emotional abuse (blackmail)
Agree, girls?
Not sure how it works in Norway but I guess the dovirce with two kids will last for a while.
At least, if I were Lena I would fight till "the last drop of blood" for my kids.
That seems to be you in the picture; so if the other person is your father-in-law as you stated . . . did he go through a sex change operation?
That seems to be you in the picture; so if the other person is your father-in-law as you stated . . . did he go through a sex change operation?
ML, you might want to re-read his post again. He says his Father-in-law snapped the photo!!! ;)
I see you're still afflicted with the Playboy subscription syndrome - the pictures always seem to get in the way in paying proper attention to what were written in the articles, and in this case the post, no?
But yes...the car really is pretty distracting.
Darn . . . now I am up to 2 mistakes in my entire life.
The impression i got when you first came to write your story was about a success story always continuiing. I think that everybody IMHO understands the same.
What I like about Northcape's story though is the fact he was supportive of his wife's life advancement and her personal achievement during their marriage. So I can't be too critical of this guy at all...
...I question though, any woman that would be interested in Northcape, while he is still married, even just to date, that woman would be highly suspect to me. What woman in her "right" mind would get involved with a man that hasn't gotten out of his last marriage? He's carrying way too much baggage to be involved with another IMHO, at least at this juncture, and expect her to be a quality woman...
I question though, any woman that would be interested in Northcape, while he is still married, even just to date, that woman would be highly suspect to me. What woman in her "right" mind would get involved with a man that hasn't gotten out of his last marriage? He's carrying way too much baggage to be involved with another IMHO, at least at this juncture, and expect her to be a quality woman
Im not making a statement of what kind of man the OP is but I read this before. Not exact words but close to what they were trying to say.
Certain woman would rather share or compete on a personal level for a high quality masculine man than have a emasculated nice guy mangina all to herself.
Share the man? Yeah, "certain" women would.)))
No way I would share the man.
Certain? It could be "most" women. If you had a choice between sharing a winner or being in sole possession of a loser, I think you would choose the winner. I can't imagine women dying to make love to homeless men with bad breath.
Due to the fact we have men that are in between the winners and losers gives ladies more options. Many ladies will be satisfied to have a normal guy full time instead of sharing an exceptional man.
Happy marriages don't end in divorce. Hence the word "happy". There must have been some years of unhappiness. Or indifference. In fact, indifference would explain very well this bizarroworld romantic story. I guess the house was pretty big and nobody was in anyone's way, perhaps with a few separate entrances. That's happiness.
I agree that 13 years of an happy marriage is still a success anyway.
Happy marriages don't end in divorce. Hence the word "happy". There must have been some years of unhappiness. Or indifference. In fact, indifference would explain very well this bizarroworld romantic story. I guess the house was pretty big and nobody was in anyone's way, perhaps with a few separate entrances. That's happiness.I do agree. The level of BOTH satisfaction given all along this marriage is not informed as of course one person is missing here. We also guess who puts some distance with the other. However, in the statisticals for a western country, 13 years is not bad at all, especially in the particular conditions we know.
No way I would share the man.
... indifference would explain very well this bizarroworld romantic story.
A prolonged state of indifference sounds so unfulfilling. One wants a companion for the heart, and without a fulfilling companion we look elsewhere. However, is marriage to someone new the answer. Or is it repeating the same mistake?
Maybe the OP and his wife need some marriage therapy to reignite the spark between them. Maybe therapy would help identify some needed personal changes.
Sounds just like BillyB's advice to Aloe! 8)
Any marriage in trouble should consider some form of counseling.
Sounds just like BillyB's advice to Aloe! 8)
I am an old-timer who has seen a lot in life. I believe what you say about you and your wife. So this post is not in disagreement with your situation. In fact, I have seen something similar with a business partner, and I will tell his story.
And what is a happy marriage?
Just all of those not ending in a divorce,,,,, flawed logic, no?
By the same logic, a divorce has to be an unhappy marriage,,, yes?
Looking back we have had some really nice years together, but some things in our lives just changed,,,,,,
Lena --- counseling......... haha x8
Me ----- counseling......... haha x10...
Photos will follow when time allows.....
Jan
The Meetings:
I was able to meet with a total of 14 women aged from 32 to 36 that I had met with on various internet dating sites.
At Kherson marriage agency, I met with an additional four ladies aged from 30 to 41 that they suggested for me.
I knew it from 14 years earlier that I hate having an interpreter in between,,,, so it was a waste of time except for one.
This Kherson lady at age 38 with good English was very nice and of course without interpreter.
We met a second time for a full day, but since she had been with the agency for six years I figured she would never marry and moved on.
Those I had been writing one or more / many letters with:
Two were total failures with a dislike from both sides, (also limited conversation ahead)
One had in my opinion less than honest intentions, unfortunately I didn't listen to my instant intuition and wasted two days with her.
One stayed with me for a full day of interesting conversation even if we both understood immediately that there was no connection.
Out of the remaining I met with four of them twice or more, and there were also three more that I would have liked to meet again.
These seven women were all very attractive as a potensial wife for me, and I would have loved to spend more time with them.
They were incredibly nice and pleasant personalities for me to be with, and each of them made it very difficult for me to continue the search.
Sometimes we continued our meeting into the night till they had to leave for work in the early morning.
There was also an immediate strong physical attraction from both sides with two out of these seven women.
Even if I had promised to myself not to fall in love during the search I couldn't help it.
I canceled the remaining list and lived together with my Lady from Kiev in her flat for the last five days of my trip.
Will try to write a comprehensive summary of my strategy and planning later.
Getting into my boys life, well I'm already close to being their brother more than their father...-
Also I don't know who is out of touch with reality, me and the women I have met with, or some of those commenting here??
In writing and when meeting I have openly explained exactly the truth about my life with Lena and the forthcoming separation and divorce.
And these women understood it all perfectly well after having all of their questions honestly answered.
As far as I could tell they would also be happy to find a friend in Lena if possible.
Exactly what happened this afternoon when my Lady from Kiev chatted with Lena on the phone for almost an hour.
You are not your sons' 58 year old brother. You are their father. As a father, your role is different. Your boys have not yet even reached puberty. You should be nurturing and protecting them, putting their needs ahead of your need for a wife.
You have not yet even told your boys about destroying their family, and, without Mama having even moved from the matrimonial home, you are already on a quest to build a new family, likely, complete with a step sibling.
I find your attitude toward this life altering event in your children's lives incredibly selfish. Have you considered the impact telling your children of your split will have on them before foisting a new woman on them and into their lives?
I wish there was a "Like" button here.
You have not yet even told your boys about destroying their family, and, without Mama having even moved from the matrimonial home, you are already on a quest to build a new family, likely, complete with a step sibling.
I find your attitude toward this life altering event in your children's lives incredibly selfish.
Where can I sign up to be 'shared' ?
There was a case here in USA maybe 15-20 years back where a wealthy 'society gal' along east coast somewhere, paid some money to husband and wife to 'share' the husband a certain number of days per year or some such.
The guy was an uneducated blue collar worker, but he was pretty good at tennis, and this wealthy gal wanted him mainly for that, but there were other services involved also.
It was actually taken to court I believe because, after some time and after payment had been already made for the coming year, the wife wanted to back out of the deal and maintain full 'custody' of her husband. The wealthy gal was suing for breach of contract and specific performance.
Anyone else remember that case?
Jan, I hope your deliberations are clear such that you make the best decision. If the decision is a new wife, I hope you find a new woman with whom both of you will be very happy over the decades in front of you. I hope your children will be happy as well and go mostly unaffected by your divorce.Thanks Gator
Not too many men can tell you they can remain civil and caring for the women they choose not to be with, or aren't with any longer. This is definitely something you should be proud of.Thanks,, I never had any bad relationships with women GQ,,,
Very good planning and execution. You have my congratulations on a job well done . . . even if it doesn't work out with the gal you chose.Thanks,,,, Well, I have to admit never reading it ML
Seems like you followed the outline of "Pursuing FSUW 101" in the Starting Out section, even if you never read about it there.
Best to you, your existing family, and your newly emerging family!!
but dropped her a few weeks after returning back home,,, not completely however.
And what is with the chin kisses?
Thanks for correcting the "cheek" part Gator, just a mixup of languages...
And no, Kiev32 isn't a backup,, she is a great woman that I might end up marrying if nothing very special gets a foot into the door opening.
She is totally independent, well educated and able to learn by herself, ambitious, strong and a little too much woman at the same time.
As a mother "stand-in" for my boys she will do very well, I admire the way she has raised her own little boy on her own.
A joy to be around at almost all times, happy and loving her life, even as rough and demanding life can be for a single mother in Ukraine.
But I prefer those with a brain that is wired in a somewhat rational and logical pattern, rather than the "woman logic" pattern.
she lied about smoking in her profile and was able to hide it for two full
days,,,
but it isn't important at all, if I love her enough, I should just accept it, and believe her when she promise to quit at some point in the future.
It's now, half past five in the morning here in Dniepropetrovsk, and I will try to slumber off a little just sitting here in the car,,
. . . I might end up marrying if nothing very special gets a foot into the door opening.
if I love her enough, I should just accept it, and believe her when she promise to quit at some point in the future.
I might have to just accept that, along with several other "important for me" bad traits that she see no reason to try to change.
Jan which car rental company was/is it? You say "trouble again"-- what was previous problems and what is the trouble this time?
After a lot of trouble again, with the car rental company, I was arriving in the center of Kiev at approx. 17 in the evening.
Just in time for a shave and change of clothes at the toilet of a gas station, before picking up Kiev33 after work at 18.00 outside her office.
Interesting names these gals have. I actually never met any who were named after cities!! 8)ML-- I think I have cracked his code !! City & age to identify -avoids confusion in ones mind !!
But I must say, I am pretty lost in trying to figure out where you are at any given point, and how you get from place to place, etc. Yes, I know you are driving a car.
I think others have written about the perils of spending most of the trip traveling from here to there; any relevance here?
Just wondering GQ,,
Why you would think it advisable, to search in my home country at all.
Ukraine has 10 times the population of Norway.
And probably a multiple of 10 times, the number of women in their thirties with a single child looking for a man to marry.
Finding her in Norway is a much larger problem than the additional work of integrating a foreign woman here.
Yes, I did look, but not seriously,, meaning no writing to anyone at all.
I just considered it a waste of time.
Just wondering GQ,,
Why you would think it advisable, to search in my home country at all.
Ukraine has 10 times the population of Norway.
And probably a multiple of 10 times, the number of women in their thirties with a single child looking for a man to marry.
Finding her in Norway is a much larger problem than the additional work of integrating a foreign woman here....
...Yes, I did look, but not seriously,, meaning no writing to anyone at all.
I just considered it a waste of time.
Having been married with a large age gap for the last 13 years, I don't see much of a problem with the age alone, as daily life conflicts, are mostly the same whatever the age.
the guy believes that she finds him sexy when he is out of breath upon reaching the top a staircase.
Ade, you are right and one can see this in "arrangements" with well-to-do Russian businessmen and their much younger partners. Eventually the young lady steps up the frequency of meeting "friends" from Friday nights to several nights each week and over time the old man begins to be attended to by a nurse but the younger partner has left--taking her wardrobe, sports car, electronic gadgets and as many of his assets as she could gather without angering him to the point of arranging a hit on her life.
It is the essence of the "arrangement" and fairly well understood going into the game. That is often what attracts younger hotties to older men despite the fact that the guy believes that she finds him sexy when he is out of breath upon reaching the top a staircase.
Mendy
read above
Well said Northkape, very well said.... :applaud:
Or are you, and some of the other members here, omnipotent in your wisdom to understand relationships between people you know nothing about.
Ade
Was your answer / warning directed at me or for other by-passers to read...
If it was for me, wouldn't it occur to you, that I probably had this same warning repeated over and over, by others who also doesn't know me?
Also your words makes me wonder what kind of a relationship you have with your own wife.
Do you understand when a woman truly loves you? If yes, why don't you grant others the intelligence to understand the same feelings?
Or are you, and some of the other members here, omnipotent in your wisdom to understand relationships between people you know nothing about.
While you insinuate that the same people at the same time don't understand it themselves.
I have been passionately in love with all women in my life that I had a true relationship with, and they were also deeply in love with me.
All normal people I ever met with, understand such feelings, and they also know and understand that these feelings can't be faked over time.
Still Ade,, you think that I would marry a woman that wasn't in love with me, that is attracted to me for some superficial values, and that I'm unable to understand this.
What kind of a man are you Ade?? And how did you get to feel this position of superiority, face to face with another man you know nothing about.
I have been passionately in love with all women in my life that I had a true relationship with, and they were also deeply in love with me.
All normal people I ever met with, understand such feelings, and they also know and understand that these feelings can't be faked over time.
Jone-
As long as everyone understands that there are far more detrimental physiological changes that happens to a man in his 60s, and older, and in a more rapid development - than a man in his 40s.
Sorry to poop on this party of overwhelming all-uniting love, maturity, and understanding, but
I think what the OP is doing is very uncivil and uncool. He is getting under his wife's skin by parading the other women and "potential step-mothers" before her eyes. What a cruel, completely selfish, and childish behavior. He's been doing it all through their marriage too. Always showing off his ex-girlfriends, benchmarking his wife constantly against his long-term and very successful first girlfriend. Etc etc etc.
Yes, perhaps the OP's wife in this relationship is adult and mature, and wise, and understanding and all that good stuff, but the OP isn't. To live with such man is a major PITA.
I agree that the relationship with the mother of his children is indeed odd based on the little we know. Although his behavior as you described it would get under your skin, she for some inexplicable reason helps Northkape find a replacement wife. This suggests that they are indeed friends other than they can not live with each other.
Bo
Maybe we have a different understanding of what love is... I don't know..
Do you mean that all those who divorced, were never truly in love with each other?
Not in the way I understand love. They may have had a romantic, passionate desire for one another, but that is different, is it not?
I assume you have only been in love once. Is this a soul mate type of thing you believe in? That's cool if it is, I don't necessarily believe in soul mates or that you didn't love someone if that relationship ended.
I don't know if I believe in soul mates. I am not trying to criticize this, I just truly don't get it.
Almost all relationships, I assume, start with real passion. But, marriages have ebbs and flows. You may experience money problems, or in law problems, or problems with children, or health, etc. You discover aspects of your partner that are not perfect. You mature, experience the tests of live, and those have an effect on you, and your relationship, over time. My view is, the true test of love is how you handle those changes.
I agree that the relationship with the mother of his children is indeed odd based on the little we know. Although his behavior as you described it would get under your skin, she for some inexplicable reason helps Northkape find a replacement wife. This suggests that they are indeed friends other than they can not live with each other.
Believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things .... as good a description as I have ever heard. I still feel that way about my ex. We are and remain best friends. But life moves on.
I believe you can love more than one person. And be in love with more than one person.
...Come on, guys. In your cheer-leading, imagine the reverse situation: a couple is on the rocks and discusses divorce after 13 years of marriage, there are two teenage sons, husband initiated divorce. Wife tells him: OK, I'll grant you a divorce, but I have my needs, so how about you will help me to find the new husband? Also, I need to let you know that the guys I am shagging now will be calling you at random times to ask for references for me, and also I have prepared the video presentation of our home and our children that I am showing to all the guys I am screwing while traveling through the country. I have several cities in my tour and likely I'll have sex in every one of 3-5 cities I plan to visit, it's possible that I'll have sex with several different people in the same city. Here are the photos of the guys I had sex with, here are the photos of the guys I will have sex with, - as you can see, they are all younger than you and are in a perfect physical shape, also they are very hot in bed. I'm sure you do not mind me telling you all these details because we are such wonderful friends with you and I feel I can share with you everything. Also, since you decided to divorce me, I feel that I am free to do anything I want now, and as woman I have my sexual and other needs, and I need to find a new husband ASAP. That's ok that our divorce is not finalized yet. Oh, wait, we have not even applied for divorce yet. But we are going to file the separation papers soon. Some time soon. Maybe in half a year, perhaps longer....
Who's to say she isn't getting serviced right now? Even by one who knows, or a friend to, the OP?
Maybe a bit off topic but this reminds me of a story some time ago. There was a member at RWG a while back who took pride in declaring how happy his marriage was - ad nauseum - on the board. I think there was a massive (almost 30 years) age disparity between him and his FSUW wife. Anyway, there was a FSUW/WM get together one time and people met, etc...
Long story short, the couple went somewhere for vacation and met the guy in that city, who just 'happened' to be in the same place they were. The guy was also a member at RWG like the husband. He said it was a coincidence. My suspicion is, it was deliberate because the older guy posted pictures of his young wife while patting himself on the back. So things happened during that vacation time....and for the ensuing months, the husband just kept repeating how lucky he is, blah, blah, blah for marrying his wife blah, blah, blah - while the entire time - the guy was screwing the older guy's wife and he just continued to support the older guy's posts on the board and telling him he's so happy for him, yada, yada, yada while constantly boinking his wife, LOL.
>:D
Freaking hysterical, man! When he told me the story, I couldn't wait to get home and read many of the older guy's posts. I guess they got divorced short of a year after the affair got started and poor guy likely never even knew what was happening the entire time.
Point of that story is, like the one were discussing now, sometimes one have to wonder can a wacky thing actually gets wackier?
:P
before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.
I have decided not to answer her calls, before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.
...I have decided not to answer her calls, before I go to visit her on the last one of my remaining days, before going home.
Maybe you should believe in a God. You certainly need someone to atone for your transgressions. Obviously, you don't think you need to do it yourself.
any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,
:cluebat:
Dude, do you honestly think she will welcome such unsolicited calls? Inviting strangers on the net like that on her behalf is just nuts.
And also how it would be better for us to think about all of it, and maybe get in touch again after a month or two.
Mies,
Mies...
What did I ever say to make you want to use such words.....?
I'm sure you have a somewhat nicer personality in real life.
Why then use of your free time to berate someone you have never met and know little or nothing about?
Maybe he is trying to return the favor and set her up with someone from here? :D
Through all my history here I told the truth about everything, verified by photos in such a way that it is easy to find me and my history on Google.
I am not afraid of who I am and my history, in stark contrast to all of those here that hide there names, age, location and so on.
I think that the only person he is deceiving is himself. I would bet that everyone else has him figured out. I don't believe that there is anyone on this forum that feels sorry for you, Northkape. But what a fricking tragedy for your children.
I realize that sport fucking is the craze when a marriage is breaking up, but a real man puts aside his own needs and realizes that the commitment that he made to his family far outweighs any needs that he, personally, might have.
We'll you just incited at least a dozen pensioner members to foam at their mouths at that idea.
It is true that most here reveal little about themselves and even less about their wife or girlfriend. That is their decision. It does concern me that some of these stealth members do not hesitate about sticking their nose in other people's lives and making sweeping sometimes harsh conclusions.True words and I concur. And it really ticks me off receiving harsh judgements from online people without faces. Of the very few on this site that I have seen the face of, I value their input, but the others just makes noise like bad radio interference.
I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.
I will continue searching at least till she makes up her mind about how to proceed with our relationship.
She really want's to be with me, but at the same time she is very afraid of losing all that she has fought so hard for,
taking her boy out of his familiar private school, and also leaving behind all of her family and everything that is familiar to her.
At the same time, she fully understands that I can’t take my boys and come to live with her.
Also she can’t understand herself, why she is so attracted to me, she never had relationships with older men earlier in her life.
There is also one other thing that complicated our relationship, making it even harder for her.
Unfortunately I met with her young boy at the last day of our meeting.
It was instant love,, and this is a young boy that really wants a father, nagging his mother constantly about it.
l always loved children and they love me, it’s sort of a magnetic reaction.
For this reason I tried to avoid meeting a woman’s child whenever possible, because I knew that this would skew her opinion of me.
I wouldn’t want a woman choosing me because of my relationship with her child.
I wonder sometimes when reading the comments....
If it is the vivid imagination of other posters that is commented, or what I have written in my story.
...
There will be no or very little pain for the boys the way me and Lena have arranged it.
I'm together with them several hours every day and know them very well.
I prefer to live in a close family, where we are doing things together. Wether it is household duties or traveling.
In my opinion, I see this as the best solution for my boys also.
A decision Lena fully supports for the sake of the boys, as they will be living more with me than with her.
It is simple- all these "loved ones" at some pont got OUT of Kape's control.
This is meant as a sincere question, as I don't get it. How can you be truly and deeply in love and not have that love last? How does someone who is deeply in love fall out of love to the point of splitting, even breaking a family?
MissAWhat is it? You're telling the board member how to write and what to write?
When reading your words, it makes me wonder about how you are reading my words.
If you are writing those comments for me to take notice, I would kindly suggest a less resenting and hostile attitude in your "well meant" advice.
Same again.
Bo
Not that I read all that is written on this forum, but at times you appear to be somewhat sensible in your way of commenting.
The art of criticizing while gaining respect is difficult enough face to face with people you are familiar with.
On a forum through words alone to persons you know little or nothing about, it is more than just difficult.
IMHO, it suggests that the OP holds their children as hostages in this situation: if the wife doesn't cooperate, the OP has all means to make the divorce and custody process very difficult for her. Also, perhaps she thinks that in this way she can at least have a say in picking the "least evil" as a stepmother for her children. This isn't friendship, this is an extreme egoism on OPs part and inability to see behind his own whims and desires, it's his eagerness to sacrifice anything, including the happiness of his children for satisfying his selfish little egotistic needs. The OP is insensitive to the feelings and needs of everyone else (his wife, his children, the women he is dating), but his own. And he is sugar-coating his egoism and cynical attitude as "friendship" and "perfect relationship."+100
Come on, guys. In your cheer-leading, imagine the reverse situation: a couple is on the rocks and discusses divorce after 13 years of marriage, there are two teenage sons, husband initiated divorce. Wife tells him: OK, I'll grant you a divorce, but I have my needs, so how about you will help me to find the new husband? Also, I need to let you know that the guys I am shagging now will be calling you at random times to ask for references for me, and also I have prepared the video presentation of our home and our children that I am showing to all the guys I am screwing while traveling through the country. I have several cities in my tour and likely I'll have sex in every one of 3-5 cities I plan to visit, it's possible that I'll have sex with several different people in the same city. Here are the photos of the guys I had sex with, here are the photos of the guys I will have sex with, - as you can see, they are all younger than you and are in a perfect physical shape, also they are very hot in bed. I'm sure you do not mind me telling you all these details because we are such wonderful friends with you and I feel I can share with you everything. Also, since you decided to divorce me, I feel that I am free to do anything I want now, and as woman I have my sexual and other needs, and I need to find a new husband ASAP. That's ok that our divorce is not finalized yet. Oh, wait, we have not even applied for divorce yet. But we are going to file the separation papers soon. Some time soon. Maybe in half a year, perhaps longer.
What would you say about such woman?
Now, what makes the OP so much different? The fact that he has balls and thus has some sort of special rights?
Faux
You are reading to much into those words about Lena
There is no romantic love left between us, and hasn't been for a while.
And there are reasons why Lena wanted to divorce.
Reasons we don't fully agree on, but still prefer to keep private between the two of us.
Looking back, I see clearly, that I could have done more to prevent what happened.
As I have probably said before, Lena agrees that she might come knocking on the door at some point in the future.
But, she would regard me as foolish, and also hurting the boys unnecessarily, to wait for that to happen.
I was worried about my boys to start with, but no longer, we have been able to keep our friendly "family spirit" alive through all of this.
And I don't see that changing with a new wife having a friendly relationship with Lena.
Yes, there will be large changes in our family, but they will be prepared for it, and we are moving slowly.
They fully understand so far, that when Lena moves more permanently out of our house, they will be seeing her slightly less.
There is an incredible amount of very good women above 35 with children, that would make for great partners to a lot of divorced lonely men in the western world.
They fully understand so far, that when Lena moves more permanently out of our house, they will be seeing her slightly less.This tricky English! "Slightly less" when the mother lives 100 km away?
Seriously- I have same question)) I actually know the answer- she HAS to move away, she was forced.
Here is the critical fact: The children remain with Northkape. How many women move away from their children and leave them with the father? This fact is fundamental to understanding the relationship dynamics taking place. - .
I have a new picture of how things are really happening. Maybe it's not correct,but I will say it anyways. Maybe others see this also. Lena has moved on. She may have a new love in her live. She knows you are a good person and wants to see you happy. She also knows your happiness is better for the children. The sooner she can help you find love the easier her life will be. I also suspect there is some depression on your part and she is aware of this. It is in her best interest and the interest of her children to help you find a new love.I disagree.
Seriously- I have same question)) I actually know the answer- she HAS to move away, she was forced.
Do we know why they are divorcing other than "we're different"?
I forgot.
She was forced? No way Doll. You are grasping for straws, and I understand the need to say this because abandoning the children seems so unnatural for a FSUW.What "no way"? Lena willingly left her sons? BS. It is 0.0000000% chance.
I recall that Northkape wrote Lena is moving to facilitate her professional career (evidently Oslo has better career opportunities for her than Northkape's city).
What "no way"? Lena willingly left her sons? BS. It is 0.0000000% chance.
Stuff in bold font is sugar coating or *&#$%$.
I've learned to comprehend what people imply behind they words.
Look at the ACTIONS not words!
Kape is misbehaving as a married man and Lena is slaving for him out of fear.
A married man is dating tens of women? Give me a brake.
Trust me- I am smelling the blackmail big time.
How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?They don't know.
Here is an alternate theory. Lena gets work in Oslo. She falls in love with another man. Northkape is depressed and expresses suicidal thoughts. He constantly begs for her to come back. She feels guilt and looks for the best way to move on.Possible.
How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?
Possible.
You're right- the facts are not presented.
Facts are presented about Northkape's explanation, omitting the personal reasons for a divorce (which we do not need to know, do we). However, you present no reasons much less facts to explain that she was forced, other than your intuition and your opinion that no FSUW moves away from her children.
Doll, you have given a good demonstration today of one aspect of RW mentality.
Doll, We are all speculating as all the facts are not present.
Here is an alternate theory. Lena gets work in Oslo. She falls in love with another man. Northkape is depressed and expresses suicidal thoughts. He constantly begs for her to come back. She feels guilt and looks for the best way to move on.
How do you explain that he was welcomed by her parents?
I doubt it's RW mentality. It is more like WW feminist mentality. Attack the men regardless of the facts. ;D
Doll, you have given a good demonstration today of one aspect of RW mentality.Sure, this is who I am- RW 8)
Faux, can you please explain a dumb Russian woman (me) what lesson he is teaching his sons?
Any real man would put years into raising his children instead of being so obsessed with finding his next temporary love interest.Hey, you, Russian feminist! HAHA
Seriously? I would think it is pretty obvious but, built on pure speculation like every other post here. He's teaching his sons that the family unit is quite expendable based on the needs and desires of the mother and father. Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents.
Seriously? I would think it is pretty obvious but, built on pure speculation like every other post here. He's teaching his sons that the family unit is quite expendable based on the needs and desires of the mother and father. Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents. This is assuming that the split is 50/50 fault of them both. Wrong lesson for such young impressionable minds. The family unit, the love of the parents for each other and for them is all the kids know. NorthKape is destroying that albeit, as gently as he possibly can but the end result is the same.
What "no way"? Lena willingly left her sons? BS. It is 0.0000000% chance.
Only something horrible can force the FSU woman out of her family and away from her kids.
Basically, the kids well-being is secondary to the whines of the parents.
The family unit, the love of the parents for each other and for them is all the kids know.
NorthKape is destroying that albeit, as gently as he possibly can but the end result is the same.
Any real man would put years into raising his children instead of being so obsessed with finding his next temporary love interest.
Because he is keeping the kids at his home!
To be fair to Northcape, he is taking care of his kids more often than divorced men with less custody.
Because he is keeping the kids at his home!
To be fair to Northcape, he is taking care of his kids more often than divorced men with less custody. His kids should be his #1 priority but his #2 priority should be taken care of too whether it be love or sex and it's better to get that from a wife than a rent a woman.
Northkape, I find it unusual that you come back 13 years later to post all of these details of you and your wife after you profess that it is over between you. Certainly, you don't need encouragement that you are doing the right thing. Relationships end all the time for many different reasons and you are clearly a man who is confident he knows best how to live his own life. But I believe that your wife might value her privacy more than you value her privacy during this difficult time. I want to be clear, after 13 years, this break up is more difficult on her than you. Even if there is fault on both sides, she might see this as a much more significant failure than you. So why drag her through the mud in a seemingly positive post from your perspective?
I am not sure from where started comments about abandoning children. Northkape was clear kids will be with mum on weekends and holidays but due to her work through school weekdays will be with him.
I am not sure either why custody was mentioned. From Northkape comments it is obvious neither of them planning (or even considering) this, they have found amicable solution.
Don't worry, Norway is about the most feminine country there is and if it's a battle between the parents, the mother would be pretty messed up on drugs or something not to get the children. "My kids"? It's their kids together if I understand it correctly.
Divorce proceedings are pretty straightforward and the authorities does not meddle unless there is a conflict. It's a mandatory 1-year "separation" time though. The idea is, I guess, to facilitate some time that hopefully the couple might decide to continue the marriage.
For me to have an abundance of energy, joy and happiness available for my boys to share, I need to feel happiness myself also,
and this is where a new woman in my life can fill the void left in my soul.
I wish someone would have told me to do this six or seven years ago. I'm an intelligent guy. And fairly sensitive. But even with the amicable split that I had with my wife, my kids still went through hell.
And you haven't (according to you) even disclosed to them what is in the offing.
You make it seem as if you feel full responsibility for the divorce. If in hindsight you believe your marriage was really worth salvaging 6 years ago, what is preventing you today form renewing the relationship?
If OTOH you and your wife were miserable years ago, you should have divorced if indeed you had taken reasonable steps then to reconcile. I say that because I am sure you would be just as miserable today unless there is more to the story.
Jone, it is over. You can not turn back the clock. I am sure you learned from the experience. Onward and upward!
Are you ready to have a relationship with a RW who will need 150% from you if she marries you?
And given their age they should not know while everything is in limbo.
I know that sounds cliche, but until a marriage is over, it is still salvageable. There have been no documents signed. There is no legal separation. There are only children and a wife. If my mother were alive today and reading this, she would be boxing your ears, NorthKape and telling you to have a couple of glasses of wine, get down on your knees, and find a way to make it work with your current wife. Notice I said on your knees. Because only their can you truly find the humility that I believe you lack in addressing your current situation.
Boe, Northkape postedQuoteFor me to have an abundance of energy, joy and happiness available for my boys to share, I need to feel happiness myself also, and this is where a new woman in my life can fill the void left in my soul.I am on the fence about it. If it would have came from the guy who divorced some time ago it would have been different picture. As it coming from someone who is still sharing the roof with his wife it is open to different interpretations and must of them to be honest are not very nice. Whatever it is, I think Northkape should slow down and figure out his own feelings first. He shouldn't jump into new relationship to prove anything to anyone including himself. And if he believes he is doing what he is doing for the right reasons then he at least should be more considerate to the feelings of those who surround him including his wife.
One thing I would recommend to better understand a Russian person - don't cling to legal aspects. The marriage can be over long before any papers are signed, who cares about papers anyway. Not in Russia.
And therein lies the crux. She's (seemingly) moved on or at least well into the process. He hasn't.
No, she isn't. She still drives 100km to be with them as much as possible. Perhaps Northkape could say how many weekends so far she spend with boys in Oslo (without him)?
To be with their kids. Otherwise, she's playing a manipulation game with him as well - change and maybe I'll come back.
The simplest explanation is still the most viable. She want's a different life. He doesn't.
To be with their kids. Otherwise, she's playing a manipulation game with him as well - change and maybe I'll come back.
If she hadn't started working in Oslo, we would still be married, in my opinion.
It's not much different from your story is it...?
One thing I would recommend to better understand a Russian person - don't cling to legal aspects. The marriage can be over long before any papers are signed, who cares about papers anyway. Not in Russia.
DollYou mean "expect"?
I don't get it...
If you are writing for you own pleasure, and don't except me to answer..... well ....
You mean "expect"?
Gator
Your layout is as close to the truth as it could possibly be, based on my written story.
There is of course a lot more to it, that would take forever to explain in detail, but I will fill in some of the missing pieces....
But the simple fact is that a marriage that is breaking up is a train wreck. There is no 'good' answer. I know that sounds cliche, but until a marriage is over, it is still salvageable. There have been no documents signed. There is no legal separation. There are only children and a wife. If my mother were alive today and reading this, she would be boxing your ears, NorthKape and telling you to have a couple of glasses of wine, get down on your knees, and find a way to make it work with your current wife. Notice I said on your knees. Because only their can you truly find the humility that I believe you lack in addressing your current situation.
This is, after all, a forum. There are reasons why we all contribute to it. I wish someone would have told me to do this six or seven years ago. I'm an intelligent guy. And fairly sensitive. But even with the amicable split that I had with my wife, my kids still went through hell. And you haven't (according to you) even disclosed to them what is in the offing.
Mies, Miss Ameno, and Doll:
The three of you (and some men) state that Northkape is "tormenting" his UW wife Lena. I believe Lena did as much as Norhkape in creating this odd situation.
My opinion is based on my very similar experience with the mother of my sons. This will take some explanation.
Here is the critical fact: The children remain with Northkape.
How many women move away from their children and leave them with the father? This fact is fundamental to understanding the relationship dynamics taking place. This was the same as my divorce. Based on my experiences and what I read from Northkape, it is apparent to me that:>>> trusting the father and leaving children behind are not synonyms, we cannot put an equal sign between them.
- Lena trusts Northkape to take responsibility for 90% of the parental duties.
- Thus, we can assume that Northkape is a family man, something he has stated repeatedly.>>> yeah, a good family man usually travels on sex tours picking new wife before he filed the divorce documents. A good family man also parades his past and future women before his (15-20 or so years younger) wife, as a constant reminder to her what a desirable catch he is.
- Being a family man with teenagers who could use some maternal nurturing, Northkape wants to remarry rather than become a committed bachelor dating many, many women.>>> do you somehow imply that the mother role is easily substitutable by ANY reasonably normal woman?
- Lena feels some guilt about abandoning Northkape, and she wants him to find a good wife so that he will be happy, stable, etc. (all important to being a good father).>>> this is waaaay too much of an assumption about Lena feeling guilt and her motives.
- Because of the exemplary qualities of Lena, Northkape is interested in marrying a UW.>>> I would dare to make an assumption that perhaps Norwegian women (unlike the UW's OP is meeting) would not be too open to go out and discuss marriage plans with a man who is 20+ years older than them, and who is still married, and who has two 10yo sons living with him. But that's just me.
- Lena is in a good position to judge whether a particular UW would be good for Northkape, and Lena does not want the turmoil of a bad second marriage in the Northkape household where her children will reside.>>> I think Lena would prefer the boys to live with her and spare them the turmoil of dealing with a Ukrainian step-mother all together. But is she given such an option - we don't know.
- Thus, she feels the need to help Northkape find a UW, she wants the opportunity to express her opinion, and she even welcomes the opportunity to meet prime candidates.>>> pardon me for asking, did you, while going through your divorce, welcome the opportunity to meet prime candidates and sex-partners of your soon-to-be-ex wife and mother of your children? How would you feel about such situation?
The situation mirrors my divorce from the mother of my sons.>>> not necessarily, because you are you, and the OP can be completely different from you. Also your wife was American, and Lena is Ukrainian. Not the same deal, Ukrainians and Russians have very different family dynamics and relationships between children and parents.
Northkape needs to find a new wife without Lena's assistance. For sure, he needs to proceed slowly. >>> what Northkape needs is to divorce his current wife, or at least to start the divorce with his current wife, before looking for a new wife.
They don't know.
And I can't see much in the way of personal details about Lena and my boys,,
that is much different from what she used to have on her open Facebook page.
But she is no longer allowed to have personal info about her family on the Internet,
because of her starting to work in the justice department.
She is working with uncovering organized economical crime, done by illegal immigrants into Norway.
Maybe this is an exception to the expect idea.:D
Expect acceptances except when you have no reason to accept the other's expectation of whether you accept their exceptions of your expectations.
OK, time to get back to Sunday night football.
That's absolutely right, I was always a "one woman man" and short time relationships are not for me.
Well I got my feet wet on that one.
In the following year I wrote with many and travelled to meet with some. Inviting those I really liked to come live with me for a couple of weeks while continuing to write all the time.
Felt like an asshole dropping these beautiful, sincere young ladies off at the airport with a final goodbye, after having lived together with them for weeks. At least one was deeply hurt.
Took this 25 year old beauty along for a vacation in southern France. Sorry she was, when leaving for home after a month together.
Mies, Northkape is funny (not). If you click on his "nickname" you will find his website with his REAL name, then change Jan into Lena and you see the infor about her (with her pics).
(I invited her to RW forum BTW))))))).
Mies, Northkape is funny (not). If you click on his "nickname" you will find his website with his REAL name, then change Jan into Lena and you see the infor about her (with her pics).
(I invited her to RW forum BTW))))))).
Doll,
I too disagree with your contact of the man's wife.
It was specifically important to avoid having sex as that would most certainly ruin my plans.
So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? All arseholes united no matter what I guess.
Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.
>>>> The fact is critical, but this is the fact we are hearing from the Northkape, we do not know how did they arrive at that decision, and even if the OP told us about it, it would be only his side of the story.
>>> trusting the father and leaving children behind are not synonyms, we cannot put an equal sign between them.
>>> yeah, a good family man usually travels on sex tours picking new wife before he filed the divorce documents. A good family man also parades his past and future women before his (15-20 or so years younger) wife, as a constant reminder to her what a desirable catch he is.
>>> do you somehow imply that the mother role is easily substitutable by ANY reasonably normal woman?
>>> this is waaaay too much of an assumption about Lena feeling guilt and her motives.
>>> I would dare to make an assumption that perhaps Norwegian women (unlike the UW's OP is meeting) would not be too open to go out and discuss marriage plans with a man who is 20+ years older than them, and who is still married, and who has two 10yo sons living with him. But that's just me.
>>> I think Lena would prefer the boys to live with her and spare them the turmoil of dealing with a Ukrainian step-mother all together. But is she given such an option - we don't know.
>>> pardon me for asking, did you, while going through your divorce, welcome the opportunity to meet prime candidates and sex-partners of your soon-to-be-ex wife and mother of your children? How would you feel about such situation?
>>> not necessarily, because you are you, and the OP can be completely different from you. Also your wife was American, and Lena is Ukrainian. Not the same deal, Ukrainians and Russians have very different family dynamics and relationships between children and parents.
So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? ...
Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.
Hello Ladies,
I am impressed by the degree of interest you have in this story. Each of you raise valid points. Do you believe your criticism of Northkape is totally accurate?
My ex-wife was not open, and would never have done it. She suffers from clinical depression (strong meds and therapy).
She found a better caregiver than me (if you want to belittle me, read first about people married to depressed spouses). However, I never wanted to meet the son-of-a-bitch. As her caregiver, he felt it important to use her money (previously my hard earned money) to retain attorneys to go after my ass for issues we had previously agreed to (she never won a case). BTW, the son-of-a-bitch was older than me, in bad health and died a few years ago. Her formerly best friend will not talk with her and in fact is now a friend of my Cossack wife. Jesus, you hit a nerve.
So you don't agree that a woman with two young sons should be told her ex-husband is spreading her personal history around the net? Let's just leave a colleague of hers to stumble upon it one day, right? Not my problem, right? All arseholes united no matter what I guess.
Good for you Doll. No matter if this story is exactly like Jan states, his ex should be told that he's being free and easy with their story on an open forum.
And here is what I think about this. I presume you, as most of American posters on this site know that working for the Federal Government in DC is sort of a big deal: the job is very secure, great social benefits, very interesting, high responsibility, good comfortable salary, very difficult to get. So imagine, for a moment, that you are 36, and after long path you finally got your dream job. You also bought a new apartment, expecting to pay the mortgage from the salary this dream job would pay. So basically all your planning, life and finances are tied to this job. Now you are passing security clearance. The process is lengthy, every detail of your biography is checked and cross-checked, and you are asked to remove personal information from the web. So you do. And then your wife - maybe the same wife with whom you have amicably divorced, creates on the web several very revealing and extensive information sources about you, your private and family life, while knowing that your employer specifically requested to remove this type information from the web. What is your reaction? What are you going to do? Will you think that your wife is your friend?
This is just mind-boggling how some people act.
Some men might express something negative, e. g., an example of a husband paying for the education of a young woman and now that he approaches his decrepit pension years, she leaves him to earn BIG MONEY. Heck, that is part and parcel of marrying a much younger woman.
I've seen people using this line of argument on this board and elsewhere, and I do not think age difference plays a big role in the argument/claim. Remove the age difference and you will receive the normal family, where one spouse works to support the other spouse through college years, and then switch/take turns. I know quite a few people in USA, local Americans, who had done that. They are still married, but making an argument "the wife used her husband to pay for her education and now when she earns big money she leaves" is a big in far-fetched. Especially in the case when couple have been married for 13 years and have 2 children. There are easier ways to get education rather than marry someone for 13 years and give birth to 2 sons for him. I vaguely remember the prices for surrogate parenting, and I vaguely remember cost of university education in Norway, and I think that if doing strict math "2 children vs. college education" - the OP still owes his wife quite a bit. But no, when we talk about children no one raises a question that the woman was used by the OP to produce two beautiful children. But when we are talking about woman's career, suddenly we start saying "perhaps she used her husband to get education." Why?
It is the same as women complaining their men left after they finished law/medical school and built up their careers.
ne
Similar, yes. But not the same. Because while men do their law/medical school - it takes a toll on family finances and on the family in general, as they are never around. I saw no facts in this story showing that OPs wife drained money from the family and was never around. She did raise their children and took care of the home, didn't she?
They were married and had some kids. The marriage didn't work out and now it is over. It sounds like they both got married for the right reason so I fail to see why there would be questionable intent on her part.
You did not have two kids going through their adolescence at the time your marriage was breaking up.
His course of action can only end in severe trauma for these children, no matter how lovingly he plays it.
He should obtain counseling from a qualified marital counselor - not from this bunch of Armchair Quarterbacks.
You really expect us to believe this reasoning. Trying to save her from colleagues finding out is pretty funny reasoning but anyone with half a brain can see right through it.
Some of you guys display narcissistic behavior thinking your opinions are gospel. Typically people getting involved in others affairs are the people who should be working on their own shortcomings.
I am generally opposed to seeking out anonymous individuals. However, in this case, Lena is not a participant on this forum, yet, her full name is tied to this forum, photos from her past presented. She may very well be fine with this. But, she may not be. We do not know if she granted her permission. This is why, when posters such as CalgaryCowboy come here and post a woman's full name, and she is not here, we delete that name. Same when allegations are made that a particular woman is a scammer, if there is nothing online to support that claim.
Personally, I would not be okay with my kids' photos being displayed, together with their full names, so, were I contacted by someone in such circumstances, I would be grateful. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with contacting Lena. If she does not want strangers on a forum seeing her photos, or those of her children, or reading about her, she will have the information to take action. If she has no issue with it, at least she is aware.
About my life with Lena and our divorce,,
any sane and polite person here, is free to call her and ask her directly,, I will not give the number, but where in the justice department she works, then it is possible to call there and ask for her by name. She speaks fluent Russian, Ukrainian, Norwegian and good English also.
a
Personally, I would not be okay with my kids' photos being displayed, together with their full names, so, were I contacted by someone in such circumstances, I would be grateful. Therefore, I see nothing wrong with contacting Lena. If she does not want strangers on a forum seeing her photos, or those of her children, or reading about her, she will have the information to take action. If she has no issue with it, at least she is aware.
Just in case some miss this comment ...
BTW I believe Northkape should not have ever said anything like that as well as his wife more likely knows about this thread without anyone contacting her.
This type of behavior isn't an isolated occurrence. If someone has to stalk family members to contact because they can't deal with internet disagreements, well, there is something very wrong with those people.
He is their father and has every right to post pictures of his children if he wants. Heck, people posts their entire lives on the internet now. No one here has any right to tell the guy what to do or meddle in his relationship with his ex wife because they don't agree with him.
As long as he isn't doing anything illegal of course.
If this was the first time, I could see your point of view. However it isn't. We will just have to disagree, but don't worry, I won't call your husband. ;)
I would think the person was crazy if they contacted me because of an online argument.
Yeah, call her at work so she can discuss something on a forum with a complete stranger. There is a whole lot of strange going around in this thread.
It does not matter whether or not it is legal to post the information, it is still a breach of Lena's privacy. As I noted, she may be okay with it.
...Whack job confirmed.
IMO, it isn't about 'any argument' from my POV.
The wife works for Norway's DOJ and according to even the OP, there are protocol for every employees to adhere to as a condition of employment i.e. privacy. Even her social media was apparently closed down....how is that any different than what had already been posted here and/or is available for everyone to see..more over, with 'private' information about their marriage/relationship affairs.
Plus, considering she's suppose to seek a 'new life and beginning' on her own, you don't see any of this as being silly? She can come here on her own, by virtue of Northkape's bidding and assistance, and tell everyone everything is just fine with her. Nothing wrong with that, no?
If not, as the ladies here contend, then the site or the mods can take them all down...
Sure, there will always be an excuse besides "argument". I wonder what excuse someone had to contact Riv's girl in Ukraine. I am sure the were trying to save her...
....That is still between her and her husband or ex or whatever they are...
...This whole thread is silly....
.... That is why I stayed out of this thread up until someone decided to cross the line again....
...The last thing she should do is come here and create more theater....
...and lastly, the OP himself already GAVE the permission to make contact with Lena. So this isn't like anyone will be doing anything counter to the OP's wishes, no?
Like those lookey-lous on the other side of the freeways slowing to a stop to gawk at the carnage on the other side of the freeway. C'mon, Live...it's human nature. Why else has most everyone stuck in this thread all through the weekend? Folks love theaters and train wrecks.
Riv's situation is relevant because it shows this behavior isn't a one time deal. There will always be an excuse to cross that line. Ade trying to find Billy's girl so he can point her to a thread. You don't really see this type of behavior unsavory?...
...It is already clear the OP doesn't care about his family's privacy but that doesn't mean she would want strangers contacting her. I would be offended if anyone stuck their nose into my relationship even if it is to point out what is being said online....
...Hell, I would think they were crazy to feel the need to contact me....
...I am starting to wonder if this is normal behavior and it's common to contact strangers on the internet because of online discussions....
Understood clearly! And it goes without saying, that you'd like to know if anyone violated your right of privacy, don't you? Especially if you're so guarded with it because not least of which is your employment protocol and agreement and your future along with it, NO?
Ask yourself if you were in the same situation where the ex husband gets the kids and living in Norway. You would fight for your kids and I'm sure in Norway you would win and put a restraining order on your ex if he did do something horrible. I'll bet you're a lady with a passion for your kids and would never give up.....but FSU women aren't the same when it comes to kids. Some kids are well taken care of, some spoiled, some neglected and some put in orphanages and unless things have changed in the last few years, most kids are aborted.
If I had to guess with the story presented, I would say Northcape's ex is less into kids than most women because she's not putting up much of a fight for custody.
So on this thread, there is too much information (for some posters' satisfaction) leading to an all-too-easy way to verify what NorthKape writes--something for which NorthKape is criticized.
On the BillyB thread, there is not enough proof of the marriage or other way to verify if the marriage took place (to some posters' satisfaction)--something for which BillyB is criticized.
Got it ... :wallbash:
Sure, there will always be an excuse besides "argument". I wonder what excuse someone had to contact Riv's girl in Ukraine. I am sure the were trying to save her.
Why would you care who I contact to?
Involving yourself in a stranger's relationship is rather pathetic. Maybe it is time you get a more productive hobby Doll.
Doll,You too please send me your official approval. Can't wait. 8)
I too disagree with your contact of the man's wife.
Involving yourself in a stranger's relationship is rather pathetic. Maybe it is time you get a more productive hobby Doll.
If this was the first time, I could see your point of view. However it isn't. We will just have to disagree, but don't worry, I won't call your husband. ;)
Why would you care who I contact to?
I am connected with hundreds of people though Internet- dare to judge too?
Posting on this board is NOT a productive hobby as well.
(забыла спросить, с кем мне общаться)))
Voicing my opinion about particular behavior isn't the same thing as caring. Nah, no need for more judging, you seem to have it handled.
SOME of these women get pretty emotional and upset and let their imagination run wild…yeah LFU it is rather pathetic to start trying to contact posters wives or ex wives…the beauty of it is when the ex wife tells them to go fly a kite or ignores them.
I find the man’s story interesting, and he appears to be doing a reasonably good job to this point despite the overly emotional outcry from a few that are getting a little too emotionally invested into this man's life.
Fathertime!
The reality however will be very different,,, as boys are getting older,
they certainly don't want to spend every weekend in Oslo the next five years.
I believe that Lena will be very frustrated when she realizes how difficult this will be.
My repeated warnings about the large holes in her plans doesn't get through to her at all.
Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.Speak to mods about it now as later it could be not that easy to remove anything as you may think.
The funniest part is that she is whining about you judging...when that is precisely what she has done, and more....isn't that the type of behaviour a hypocrite engages in?
Fathertime!
The fact that these people are utterly afraid of revealing even the tiniest slice of their own identity,
on the dangerous "open" Internet couldn't bother me less.
But wanting to save total strangers they will never meet, from having their family photos on the "open" Internet,
I have no words for it.
Well, Lena hardly believed it either, before I read it aloud for her.
On the other side, she see no reason for me to have her photos in my postings on the net after we are divorced.
Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.
A decision that was perfectly acceptable for her also.
That part about bragging, for me I would like to see a lot more "bragging".
Personally I would like to see more trip stories that are illustrated with photos of the women they met with.
This is after all "Russian Women Discussion" so what is up with this seemingly strange aversion to showing photos of Russian Women?
yet the mere listing of many different women will make some overreact and scream "sex tourist."
We all judge. Some moreso than others. We are all human after all even though some people think they are above human. The problem is when people escalate these disagreements to a point that could screw up lives.
This isn't normal behavior.
Hmmmm, let's think back now . . . have you ever been one of the first in a thread to scream 'sex tourist.' 8)
These forums where the posts exist for eons are a bitch!! :o
Where else did I utter such words, oh great scribe in the sky? :D
I find it odd that few RWD members expressed their appreciation. Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing. I guess that is the way some people are.
I have to get to bed; but I will find tomorrow (maybe) and post.
What wine to you want with the words you will eat? :D
A very cheap meal, so perhaps a Merlot?
Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing. I guess that is the way some people are.
Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and cut all connections with this person. If the person will keep jeopardizing my success and happiness - I will go after this person ruthlessly, will explore all legal means, and will find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible. And when doing this, I won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.
Oh yeah baby. Right on!!!
Been there and done that.
None of that "that was then, this is now" bullshevik that prevails in this country.
Yeah, I modified my post not to ignite the sacred battle >:D
Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing. Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target.
Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing. Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target.
LMFAO
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.
I am not certain I would classify that as revenge. I think I would call it sticking up for yourself.
find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible
LMFAO
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.
Gator, I did compliment OP in the past on the good things he did to help his wife adjust in the new society. I don't know how good of a father he is because the only thing I know is that his words ("I am a good father") do not match his actions (he seeks the new wife actively before he is divorced or separated, and doesn't not take his children into account). Actions speak louder than words.
In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable.
Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person.
find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible
...This isn't normal behavior.
As I said to GQ, I would be pissed off if some stranger started contacting me. I don't want unstable people contacting me because they don't like what someone said online.
Actually, Northkape's overall actions make complete sense to me now after his recent elaborations.
Hence, Northkape had to travel early as part of the succession plan. And his wife Lena not only agreed, she helped him in almost every aspect of his trip and meetings with UW. So where does my logic come asunder.
After being besieged by the RWD Protect Lena Committee, Northkape clarified this yesterday. He says everything is kosher. And Lena did not cut all connections, so it seems that either Northkape is correct, or Lena is very understanding and forgiving.
Just because you feel Northkape is morally abusive does not mean the mother of his children feels the same.
Are you accusing Northkape of this? If so, this is not the Mies I know, as this IMO is purely an emotional response.Me? No, why?
I'm not so sure.
Gears are not meshing here. We have been painted a picture of an Ukrainian woman who is...[cold as ice].
Two clues: She has lived with the Norse for 13 years and she chose to become a tax auditor.
Maybe you know some hot-blooded tax auditors who by comparison make PR women seem like dowdy, matronly English ladies having afternoon tea. I don't.
QuoteAre you accusing Northkape of this?
Me? No, why?
But if my close friend (it doesn't matter if this is spouse or just a friend) betrayed me and used my trust to jeopardized my career.....There is a protocol for dealing with the terrorists.....
As a warning to those who may tread upon thee, please change your signature to read,
Having witnessed some instances of revenge, I do not believe revenge is good for anyone. It is an ugly emotion, requiring much negative energy. If "love and forgiveness" don't work, forget about it. If it continues, move on to more positive pursuits. If you are stalked, call law enforcement or get an attorney.
You say you do not accuse Northkape of such yet you discuss betrayal and terrorism at length in a thread all about Northkape. It is difficult for me (and probably other readers) to not infer you are talking about Northkape.It was a sarcasm.
It was a sarcasm.
I'm not so sure.
Gears are not meshing here. We have been painted a picture of an Ukrainian woman who is...[cold as ice].
Two clues: She has lived with the Norse for 13 years and she chose to become a tax auditor.
Maybe you know some hot-blooded tax auditors who by comparison make PR women seem like dowdy, matronly English ladies having afternoon tea. I don't.
Please, do answer me what will be your actions in such case. In simple language, just list steps what would you do.
As in:
- roll my eyes
- sigh and say "Oh, God"
- forget about the story and start looking for new job
or perhaps something else.
So you ARE saying the woman has coldly calculated this whole thing and Northkape is just an innocent bystander.
Objection Your Honor. The Proscecutor is leading the witness.
Innocent? Using the word innocent means you believe there is wrongdoing.
Northkape's revelations about Lena and her job came only after nosy people (I being one) wanted to know more about why they were divorcing because Lena seemed far better to me than any other possible candidate he could find, and they were already good friends.
He answered our questions, withholding the obviously personal stuff (and I hope no one feels that they have a right to know Northkape's and Lena's personal matters). He disclosed Lena is a tax auditor. His critics accepted his answer yet used it as fuel to criticize him even more. And when he answered the accusation about jeopardizing Lena's career, his critics did not accept his answer because it would make them shut up.
Okay, so you are infering that this is all Lena's doing.
Maybe you will be and maybe you won't. Maybe you'd look at it as abnormal behavior, maybe you won't. It may have to do with what information you may deem vital in the future. But that's speculation regarding YOUR personal outlook and situation.
No, it isn't speculation on my part...
...Yes, I consider someone getting so wrapped up in an online message board to the point they feel the need to intervene is abnormal...
...It doesn't matter if it was invited or not.
Good. So that part is taken care of and out of the equation...
Which, in the subject context, is exactly what you're doing since the OP gave his permission for others to do so, and the OP's wife acceptance to being contacted by strangers despite your opposition to it. Which, btw, is really none of your business what the OP and others feel normal behavior with them.
In this context and subject, it does matter. You may not agree to it but it doesn't mean you need to get so wrapped up in an online message board that you feel compelled to intervene based solely on your own personal perspective.
:-\
I don't see why having permission negates what I am talking about.
... It still is abnormal regardless if permission is given or not. People just didn't like what he posted.
Permission is just another excuse as is her job and whatever excuses was made for contacting Riv's girl and trying to hunt down Billy's woman.
Regarding it not being my business, I am voicing my opinion such as you and other members here. As long as I stay within the rules of this forum, I am entitled to do so.
You can hunt my family members down and show them our disagreement or just accept we don't agree.
If you don't see why one of those decisions would be strange, then I don't know what to say. Maybe you can sugar coat it and start making up more excuses like a job is a jeopardy, or a woman needs to be saved from an internet bad man.
Deep down, it really is about not liking what someone said online and people can't deal with it. I have seen this type of behavior online before and seen jobs lost all because people can't deal with disagreements....
...Even if someone gave me the permission to kill them, I wouldn't feel the need to do that...
...The OP didn't have the right to give anyone permission to contact his ex wife. It is only hers to give. Regardless, it is just another excuse to take disagreements too far and is abnormal.
One had nothing to do with the other. Not sure why you seem fixated with what is written. OP stated anyone is welcome to contact his wife. His wife apparently is open to getting contacts from strangers. It is not binding to whatever else YOU think s right/wrong, normal/abnormal.
Argument non-sequitur.
Oh so now you're taking the position like the others you villified. So the point really is *_______*?
This coming from a guy who routinely trashes this forum with his opinions about the mob'ers. TFF!...
...I made my point many times. You just don't like it....
... Too bad, and you can try and twist it all you want but in the end it is abnormal behavior to contact strangers because you don't like what someone wrote....
Again planting words in my mouth.
Lena and Northkape share responsibility for what happened to their marriage. Both share parental responsibility for their two sons.
I will summarize it with the term "Irreconcilable differences."
If you belive there has been wrongdoing, both are complicit. Frankly, I do not see any wrongdoing. Northkape married a very young woman and had two delightful children whom they love very much.
Lena married so young that she had never accomplished much in the way of professional achievement or the like. She would like to know the joy of success so she made the effort to educate herself in a demanding profession. As it developed, she has much talent and it caught the eye of people with the big interesting jobs. She is taking such a position even though it requires her to move. End of marriage.
I left out the part where somehow Lena and Northkape stopped loving each other. I can't wait to hear the imagined reasons for that. Most will say it will be Northkape's fault even though we know nothing about Lena and she will not testify. I doubt she will testify as she seems too classy for such pettiness.
I ask that if anyone has a reason for why the two lost their romantic feelings, please tell me the reasons why they fell in love. One answer would be just as much a speculation as the other. Developing feelings of love is just as complicated as losing feelings of love. I defy anyone here to say otherwise.
To completely eliminate was is otherwise a given factual statement of invitation to contact someone, which in your need to intervene because you feel it isn't right for anyone to abide within those terms, somehow separate you from what you believe as abnormal folks.
LOL.
Dude, you pretty much made the same argument the mob'ers made towards you.
Maybe my opinions are hitting too close to home.
I don't need to separate myself from anyone. I just believe it is abnormal to take this to that level. I couldn't use big words if I wanted so if you don't get where I am coming from you simply don't get it.
Hell, maybe I am the abnormal guy here who isn't interested in contacting strangers because I don't like what is posted online.
...Yes, I consider someone getting so wrapped up in an online message board to the point they feel the need to intervene is abnormal...
WWAMD? (What would a MoBer Do)
Since you persist ignoring what is being said to you ad nauseum, I will quote your very own statement and hopefully the familiarity to it will hit home with you and with better clarity.
Dude, you pretty much made the same argument the mob'ers made towards you.
Which part are you having a problem understanding?
The problem to comprehend is with you. As I stated on the edit above is, and likely since you responded while I edited/add to the previous post...I'll say so again here.
...the OP invited anyone to contact his wife. The wife welcomes contact from strangers dealing with her hubby's wife-seeking adventures. Many of the folks expressed acting and abiding within what is already a known context....
Which part of this you DO NOT UNDERSTAND?
I understand all of it and I have addressed it a few times in response to you. Which part of my response if giving you a tough time?
LOL. Oh Okay, then...so you do admit to the fact YOU are the one who is intervening, right?
I didn't contact anyone. So how would I be intervening?
...and thus I shall rather leave you to yourself to ponder such query on your own...
Ha-hah! Batman still luvs you, man... :P
WWAMD? (What would a MoBer Do)
FT, now you are being a tad melodramatic, complete with the 16 point font.
mies stated if someone jeopardized her future and her happiness, she would teach them a lesson. Nothing about divorce in that statement.
If a husband "beats the crap" (here, me cursing) out of his wife occasionally, or endangers her health/life/well-being it is irrelevant how generous he is, whether he paid for her college education, and whether he is a good father for their joint child. He is a bad husband, and he is bad for his wife. There are no excuses for such behavior.If a husband regularly and consistently abuses his wife emotionally, it doesn't matter that he helped her to get a degree and is a good father for their two young children, he is still a bad husband and he is bad for her. (Imho, not a good person too.)In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable. Unlike physical violence, this is, also imho, a forgivable offense, but not and excusable one. If he corrected his behavior and were eager to "walk in his wife's shoes" - I think she would have forgave him and would say "our past mishaps are water under the bridge." But he isn't doing anything like that. On the contrary, i see a specific and consistent pattern in his behavior.Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/herprivileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness - I would go after this person and won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.
But if my close friend (it doesn't matter if this is spouse or just a friend) betrayed me and used my trust to jeopardized my career and my well-being for some unclear selfish motives, - this is how it would make me feel, and this is it how I would proceed. Perhaps you don't see it this way, but for me this is a very serious matter. If the person have done something wrong once and it's over/already a sunk cost - sure, it's cheaper to let it go. If he/she continues to do it, and does it - then reaction is not a revenge, it's the mean to stop bad actions against yourself.
Per the quoted post, mies stated "in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness."
It's not about the divorce, or how to handle it. It is about interfering in future happiness. Whether or not this is the case in the OP's situation is not relevant to the point made above.
In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable. Unlike physical violence, this is, also imho, a forgivable offense, but not and excusable one. If he corrected his behavior and were eager to "walk in his wife's shoes" - I think she would have forgave him and would say "our past mishaps are water under the bridge." But he isn't doing anything like that. On the contrary, i see a specific and consistent pattern in his behavior.
Three something else's:
1. Ask her to remove it.
2. If someone in management started to ask questions, I would say "That is my crazy wife. She is upset over my divorcing her and moving here to take this important position working for you. Much of what he wrote is his wild imagination. He will soon tire of this."
3. If management listens to the above and deems it harmful to my job,I would obtain an injunction (I am not an attorney but this should compel Northkape to cease and desist, remove everything). If that did not work, sue for malice. This is not the Wild, Wild West. We have rule of law.
I see the point you are making...but don't agree with it in this case.
Below, mies has made a ridiculous accusation, one that is beyond the pale: Some vicarious 'revenge' for something or another is my educated guess.
If somebody can extrapolate that northkape was abusing his wife for the last 13 years, based on the information we have...then she is apt to make up any old excuse to 'exact revenge', cloaked as self protection of course for justification purposes.
Just conjure up a few extra facts to insure the woman is being victimized and the man is the abusing villain.
Fathertime!
Didn't the OP told us early on that Lena was a department head back in Ukraine, in her early 20s, a successful career woman, smart and focused with (don't remember how many people exactly, but more than 2) working under her?. And she already had education back in Ukraine. To me this sounded quite an accomplishment for a young Ukrainian girl.
Lena married so young that she had never accomplished much in the way of professional achievement or the like. She would like to know the joy of success so she made the effort to educate herself in a demanding profession. As it developed, she has much talent and it caught the eye of people with the big interesting jobs. She is taking such a position even though it requires her to move.
Sure 'mies's imagination is fairly robust, as I too, do not believe NK is/was 'abusing, or abused, his wife during their marriage. The fact they shared two lovely children, coupled with the fact she was allowed to pursue her identity and career while married, speaks volume of their relationship to me.
But nowhere in mies' post you quoted denoted any idea or attempt to 'exact revenge' to me. Care to point that out in case I missed it? You mentioned you're making a 'guess' that that's what her intent is. If so, then how are you any better with your equally robust imagination?
You want to argue points…no problem…As far as you telling me to give it a rest…hahah… forgettaboutit …you are not my leader or boss of the website….you need to be clear on that point, and we will argue respectfully if that becomes necessary...I'd wager that several posters don't feel enough has been said.
Give it a rest.
You are preaching to the choir here regarding NK and mies imagination....and up to now you have tacitly approved of the creative imagination and accusations by not calling it out while calling out less egregious points by others....
...And show me where did I say that the post I quoted was going to show mies was exacting revenge?
...Below, mies has made a ridiculous accusation, one that is beyond the pale: Some vicarious 'revenge' for something or another is my educated guess....
...Show me where I said I was any better than mies?...
.... I’m using my imagination and filling in the blanks just the same as she has been doing to NK…If it is ok for one and nobody wants to hold her to account..then I figured it was ok for others....
.... As you well know, you do it all the time too....
...You want to argue points…no problem…As far as you telling me to give it a rest…hahah… forgettaboutit …you are not my leader or boss of the website….you need to be clear on that point, and we will argue respectfully if that becomes necessary...I'd wager that several posters don't feel enough has been said....
Since when do others need to move on YOUR cue? Now the brown nose brigae maybe marhcing to your tune soon, but never moi. Different generation, man.
Is implication enough with you?
Surely, based on how you wrote that, didn't imply you mean anyone else other than the handle quoted within.
Ahhh! It's one of those 'show me' fart fest, LOL. OK, well show me where I said 'you said you were better than mies. chrissakes!
Ahh, so I was right with my post to you. Then why the heck even try to argue the 'point'? Must be the Howdy-doody time is over and the ol' pot-kettle love fest revival is in the offering.
No I don't. Elaborate please.
Oh I was VERY clear. So clear in fact you already admitted fault from my initial statement to you. Must I re-quote?
As for the rest of your silly remarks shown above, CLEARLY tells me you have neither the clue nor the direction to your silly diatribe other than to portray yourself as someone of significance. You ain't. Besides, based on your riposte, it tells me you haven't the ware to even argue with yourself.
Not today. But keep trying.
Fathertime!
haha, it is nice to see I got the site fool to try a 'point by point' that didn't show a thing! I figured your emotional immaturity would dictate a response but at least I thought it would make sense..
and YOU actually thought you were somebody important... :D
Fathertime!
Now go change your diapers.
The man was quite older, much older than her. He knew exactly what he was doing......Please tell me she had the savvy of this man who was around her father's age........You want some candy little girl, heh, heh, heh.
I mention there was no wrongdoing and you reply as follows:
Muzh,
Such statements reveal your belief that a marriage with an age gap is WRONG because the older man is savvy enough to connive a young inexperienced woman to enter marriage she should never consider. BTW, he was 44, she was 22 when they met, and his photos show him to be a handsome, fit man.
Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue. It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.
I guess your wife is your age. Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.
Funny how Doll dissapeared right after she said she had invited Lena to the forum?
I wonder if Lena confirmed what NK is saying?
The collective imagination of this RWD group is going to waste......should be writting "who done its".
;)
MissA
Have you forgot what I told about our boys daily life.. smile
Taking our boys away from their private school, their piano teacher, paint teacher and gymnastics teacher would be over Lena's dead body.
These teachers are all personal friends of us, and have been together with our boys since they were four years old.
It's impossible for an outsider to understand our relationship with them, and their love for our boys.
So let this be very clear, she wants the boys to stay here in my hometown with me, whatever happens in the future.
It took us years to find and build a relationship with these gifted persons.
And they have used years, building a loving relationship with our boys.
It is not allowed and not advisable to take the boys out of school and we would never, ever allow it.
So they couldn't stay in Oslo on weekdays, it's quite simply not possible.
Lena loves all of what I'm giving of my life to her sons, she see and understand my position in their lives.
I'm learning and teaching them about all possible things young boys could find interesting in our "universe"
They are bright and multi talented boys with a never ending desire for exploring and learning,
so we do our very best for providing a rich and saturated environment for their life's in all of it's aspects.
As much as she loves her boys, she truly wants them to be with me, as their best friend and father, always available for them.
I mention there was no wrongdoing and you reply as follows:
Muzh,
Such statements reveal your belief that a marriage with an age gap is WRONG because the older man is savvy enough to connive a young inexperienced woman to enter marriage she should never consider. BTW, he was 44, she was 22 when they met, and his photos show him to be a handsome, fit man.
Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue. It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.
I guess your wife is your age. Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.
Funny how Doll dissapeared right after she said she had invited Lena to the forum?
I wonder if Lena confirmed what NK is saying?
The collective imagination of this RWD group is going to waste......should be writting "who done its".
;)
Given your belief, there is no need to discuss the issue. It is like discussing Obamacare, Benghazi, IRS, wire taps, Rosengate, Fast and Furious, etc. with someone who believes Republicans are racists and liars and that Obama is being prevented by Congress from making America better.
I guess your wife is your age. Ideally she should be a few years older than you given the mortality differences between men and women.
Could be, it is also funny how when another female poster got called out and criticized for her nasty insinuations about NK, she got so upset that she refuses to 'talk' to me anymore....now she has the site munchkin speaking for her. haha
Fathertime!
That is not what he is saying. It's not the age gap per se, but her relative youth vs his middle age.
I believe what Muzh is saying is, there is a huge difference between knowing what you want at age 45, and knowing what you want at age 22. So, from that perspective, there is not equal culpability, as this was not a marriage of equals. When it became a marriage of equals, she said she wanted changes in the marriage. You, OTOH, focused on northkape's physical attributes, rather than what really matters in a marriage. This misses the boat. It's not even in the same ocean.
Were you the same person at 45 that you were at 22? At 35?
Very few of the comments here would have been voiced in such a resenting and berating manner, face to face by the same people.
Life would be unbearable for them, if they behaved like this with all people they disagree with in their daily life.
But when anonymous, they feel free to let go of all their manners, and release all of their trapped aggression towards those they feel entitled to correcting.
This is a sad fact of most forums, whatever the topics being discussed.
The only forums that I have seen with a friendly and civil tone, where those were you had to verify your identity and sign with you real name.
If you'd stop being so angry at her maybe she'll resume her dialogue with you.
But Lena is going to miss them terribly and most of all, feel very frustrated about being unable to take care of every little detail in their life.
What will be the outcome of this is anybody's guess, but I know there will be some tough conflicts for me to handle at some points in the future.
Hopefully she will be so busy with her new career starting next year, that she will be unable to worry too much about us....
And if she could be so lucky to find a nice man also, it would probably help a lot, for her to be able to concentrate on her new life.
Gator
You know from my history here, that I don't care about drivel from people who haven't yet learned how to behave, when communicating on a forum.
When do you meet more women? :D :D :D :D :D I imagine your hands are full with the holidays and two young sons without Lena being there every day to help.
and I don't need to go further at this time if she gets the point...
....But GQ and Muzh, you have said one thing I heartily agree with. This thread is now many pages long and the OP hears what he wants to hear and dismisses everything else. We are no longer writing for the OP's behalf, but telling the rest of the world that we are understanding enough that we do not fall for his bullshit....
...I still say he's an internet whack job...
Bo
You can say that in general,, "a person at 45, probably knows more about what he wants from life than one at 22", and it might be true.
But you can't do this on an individual level.
I'm sure there are persons at 45 that have no idea about what they want from life and those at 22 that knows perfectly well what they want from life.
And a phrase like: "knowing what you want" can't be objectively verified as true or false by someone looking in, from the outside either.
Was it a marriage of equals in all aspects according to your scale?
I don't know and will never know either, because I don't know your definition of "equal" in such a context.
And even if you specified it for me now, it wouldn't help, as I can't return and check with your yardstick.
But does it matter at all, after the fact,, is it really preferable for everyone to marry their "equal"?
if so, where in personality and qualities do they need to be equal.
For me I know what equals I am looking for,,, always knew, and will of course choose by the same scale again, this time around.
Mies
Please let it go,,,
In my opinion, it's just littering this thread with "nonsense" of no value to any of us.
I'm sure both you and Fathertime are able to say "Sorry" and move on to something worthwhile using your free time for.
Mies
THANKS,,,,, smiles
You can say that in general,, "a person at 45, probably knows more about what he wants from life than one at 22", and it might be true.
But you can't do this on an individual level.
I'm sure there are persons at 45 that have no idea about what they want from life and those at 22 that knows perfectly well what they want from life.
And a phrase like: "knowing what you want" can't be objectively verified as true or false by someone looking in, from the outside either.
Was it a marriage of equals in all aspects according to your scale?
I don't know and will never know either, because I don't know your definition of "equal" in such a context.
And even if you specified it for me now, it wouldn't help, as I can't return and check with your yardstick.
But does it matter at all, after the fact,, is it really preferable for everyone to marry their "equal"?
if so, where in personality and qualities do they need to be equal.
For me I know what equals I am looking for,,, always knew, and will of course choose by the same scale again, this time around.
Unless the person is a blithering idiot, with no ability to learn, or no introspection, or has lived in a monastery or cave with relatively little contact with the world at large, it is absolutely true.
You missed the point.
Bo
Thanks for your long and detailed answer...
But I think we are talking about entirely different things.
I see from your answer that you are talking about equality in a social context.
Equality for me, is more related to what we have inside our minds,,,
like: outlook on life, ambitions, courage, strength, creativity, intelligence, empathy, happiness, energy and so on.
You can of course apply a general rule to an individual, but it still has no value doing so.
It's like saying 2+2 = 3..... Even if you can say it, it's still wrong.
Please, don't ever tell people from FSU that they live in something close to a third world country.
It just isn't true,, and offending in such a way, I can't understand the reason for writing it in a forum like this.
I can agree about rating it as "second world" countries between us,
but I would never say that openly to anyone living there.
A large amount of the people living in Moscow or Kiev,
can't really see any difference between their life there, and our life in the west.
Even if it easily visible to me and many others living in some parts of the western world.
And really, I have hard time understanding the difference in personal satisfaction,
from great achievements in your career based on whether you are living in Dnieprodzerzhinsk or in Oslo.
If I didn't have the opportunity of searching for "such a woman" in Ukraine, I would of course try to find her here at home.
Not impossible, but I would have to use a very different strategy, and as of today, I have no idea about how hard it would be.
It was difficult 15 years ago, but I was very close to finding her at home at that time.
Bo,, don't ever worry about criticizing me,, I'm not easily offended.... smile
Bo
Thanks for your long and detailed answer...
But I think we are talking about entirely different things.
I see from your answer that you are talking about equality in a social context.
Equality for me, is more related to what we have inside our minds,,,
like: outlook on life, ambitions, courage, strength, creativity, intelligence, empathy, happiness, energy and so on.
You can of course apply a general rule to an individual, but it still has no value doing so.
It's like saying 2+2 = 3..... Even if you can say it, it's still wrong.
Please, don't ever tell people from FSU that they live in something close to a third world country.
It just isn't true,, and offending in such a way, I can't understand the reason for writing it in a forum like this. I can agree about rating it as "second world" countries between us,
but I would never say that openly to anyone living there.
A large amount of the people living in Moscow or Kiev,
can't really see any difference between their life there, and our life in the west.
Even if it easily visible to me and many others living in some parts of the western world.
And really, I have hard time understanding the difference in personal satisfaction,
from great achievements in your career based on whether you are living in Dnieprodzerzhinsk or in Oslo.
Under that definition, many eight year olds are equal to adults.
Everyone, including me, assumes they are the exception to the general rule.
I speak to Ukrainians who left the country to settle here every week. I have just now asked my Ukrainian citizen husband, if, in his opinion, Ukraine is a third world country. We had watched the programme Lily posted, about a chef who went to work in Lugansk. He responded "Didn't you see it yourself yesterday?"
Ukraine has a per capita GDP of under US$8,000, lower than Namibia, Turkmenistan, Jamaica, Tonga, Albania, and Bosnia and Herzogovina. In some towns in Ukraine, people hook their homes up to city lights to obtain electricity. Every level of government is ruled by corrupt politicians who get rich from their offices, more often than not, by theft.
The glitz and glamour of Kyiv is evident in the city centre, and there is more money because everyone who stole money elsewhere in the country (other than Odessa) moved to Kyiv. However, go out to a neighbourhood 10 minutes by tram from Khreshchatik, such as where my MIL has lived for over forty years (now a desirable area based on its central location), and you will witness a very different world. Unemployed young men loiter outside all day, smoking and playing dominoes. Stray dogs, known on occasion to attack people, particularly children, roam the streets. So, let's not kid ourselves. If the country were not in misery, young women would not be on ADate, earning a few pennies for each WM they speak with, and no one would be fleecing these men for $2 a day.
It is not the personal achievements I was referring to. One can be happy wherever one lives. I was referring to the difficulty of life. A woman's life, in particular, in Ukraine is far more difficult than it is in the West, and even more so in comparison to egalitarian Scandinavian nations. If your ex had the same position in Ukraine she does now, she would have to worry about crossing a powerful politician (a de facto mobster) in any investigation or prosecution she was involved in. She would run into a police system in which most officers have abused their positions for personal gain, and the majority take bribes. She would have no ability to do anything to change this, at least, not if she wanted to remain alive. How likely is that to occur in Norway?
It gives me, as a diaspora Ukrainian, no pleasure in stating any of the above. Ukrainians are well educated, certainly as well, if not better educated, than many of their Western counterparts. I had hoped, on the collapse of communism, that the country would flourish, with a rule of law by now, and a standard of living similar to that of some Western countries. I also assumed, after the collapse, that the suppressed arts would flourish, that there would be a burst of artistic creativity in all spheres. Instead, I read newspapers full of basic grammatical errors, suggesting the reporters' and editors' diplomas were purchased rather than earned, no interesting authors have emerged, and most of the musical artists are churning out rehashed Soviet pop tunes, or the same Europop. The country is ruled by the former ruling class who now, instead of being committed to communism, are corrupt oligarchs who live with no rule of law, not a care about how the populace they are elected to serve live, and no Moscow to control the worst of their avaricious impulses.
northkape, you don't speak Russian or Ukrainian. Both mies and I do, and we have both lived in Ukraine. I am fairly confident our views of Ukraine are more accurate than is yours.
I agree with Boethius.This post and MrsB's that Mies is referring to cover a lot of real issues.My only word of caution is that it is not necessary to be condescending and dismissive of those who do not speak the language and /or are late to taking an interest in Ukraine. I am sure that both NorthKape and I can tell you things Ukraine related that neither MrsB or Mies knows about!! :)
I have visited Ukraine past spring, after 6 years of not seeing it. While living in USA I've heard both good things and bad things about changes/evolution of Ukraine. In my hometown roads and anything related to public infrastructure are in worse shape than they were in early 1990s, following the collapse of USSR, hyperinflation and extreme deficit, when municipal budgets had no money and people were not paid salary for a year or more. I visited few more small towns, along with various districts in Kyiv, and cannot understand how the country can be living better if every public good is so neglected and not cared for. The state collects money from citizens, but the money get lost in deep pockets of many state employees and politicians, only to be found later in off-shores and in Swiss and Austrian banks. The century-old buildings in Kyiv, which are designated as historical heritage and supposedly are protected by state, are instead methodically destroyed by neglect and arson. While the majority of the country becomes poorer by the day, our politicians and state officials use their political power to gain competitive advantage for their business enterprises, to get contracts for their sons, daughters, and in-laws. General attitude to women in Ukraine is so upsetting that I do not even want to start talking about it.
I am sure that both NorthKape and I can tell you things Ukraine related that neither MrsB or Mies knows about!! :)
Now I am curious to know such things ;D
Funny thing is I nearly included you when I said that!! :popcorn:
That doesn't help my curiosity. Go on, tell those things about Ukraine. You know you want to ;D]
Thanks FatherTimeWell NK, I sorta lost track of this aspect of your story through all the other garbage. So it appears you are meeting some ladies now...what have you thought of some of the other ladies you met such as kiev 32 and kiev33....did they appear to be interested in you...did you have much interest in any of them?
Now getting back to my story,,,
A short summarry of what happened so far:
Met with Kiev33 and then Kiev32 when arriving in Kiev.
After a business meeting in Kharkov I met with Kharkov32
Have arrived at Lena's parents in Dnieprodzherzhinsk, where I will be staying for a few days.
We are finished with dinner, and I will drive to Dniepropetrovsk for a date in the evening.
Dniepropetrovsk36 is supposed to meet with me at the French Carousel in the European Square at 19.00
I park my car in the parking lot across Prospect Karl Marx, a few minutes to 19.00 and walk over to the French Carousel.
Picking up my phone, I call her,,,, she speaks no English, but I do understand this at least: ya budu tam cherez djecit minut.
Meaning,,, she will be here in 10 minutes, (or usually within 10 - 50 min. for a Ukraine woman)
Then I feel it safe to turn on my "number 2" phone and make a call to my long time favorite Kirhovorad32.
I was unable to get in touch with her while driving here, and she is waiting for my call about our meeting tomorrow.
Heaven might fall down in hell, if I'm unable to get hold of her before Dniepropetrovsk36 arrives here.
More later.....
My only word of caution is that it is not necessary to be condescending and dismissive of those who do not speak the language and /or are late to taking an interest in Ukraine. I am sure that both NorthKape and I can tell you things Ukraine related that neither MrsB or Mies knows about!! :)
kiev 32 and kiev33....did they appear to be interested in you...did you have much interest in any of them?
I am sorry father time....but you make me laugh :welcome:
Did you not read what northkape wrote in previous posts?
Thanks again for taking your time Bo
Under that definition, many eight year olds are equal to adults.
Yes, and if you belived in that, you would prefer to choose your own partner by the scale of social equality,
and vote for an eight year old running for president.
You clearly do understand Bo, that the traits alone doesn't a personality make.
So, no need to belittle what qualities I'm looking for, in the woman I want to have beside me.
Whatever amount of ambitions an eight year old might have,,
he still hasn't acquired the necessary knowledge and reason for building an abstract platform, where to envision his future achievements.
Even though he is equally ambitious there in't much of value for an adult to discuss with him.
Everyone, including me, assumes they are the exception to the general rule.
Not everyone Bo, only those willing to forfeit reason and logic in the face of feelings.
However populated mankind's history is with such people, you will not find my name in there.
Whatever you tell me Bo, I will not agree about Ukraine being even close to the level of third world countries, as in Africa.
In countries where a substantial and unknown amount of the economy goes below the radar, the Official GDP numbers have less than artificial value.
The glitz and glamour of Kyiv
No way do I want a pissing match about who knows the most about Ukraine so I will only state my opinion once.
In my opinion, I know as much about Ukraine as almost anyone living there,
having been together with people from the Elite level corrupts in the main cities,
down to the poorest of the poor living in the most remote villages of Ukraine.
And driving myself, across almost every part of Ukraine numerous times in the last 13 years.
I was referring to the difficulty of life
You know what Bo,,, I really don't believe in that when placing it in this context.
If you are fighting for a position when climbing the ladder, no one are going to step aside and offer you the place.
You will have to fight to the absolute ability of every nerve in your body as long as you are awake.
And you are fighting with other humans that will do exactly the same, using every trick ever invented by mankind, to make you slip and fall.
Wether you are in Los Angeles, in Oslo or in Kiev the game is the same, there are similar written and unwritten rules for all players to follow.
All participants are still only humans that have the same 24 hours a day available for using as fit.
I sat at the sidelines 30 years ago watching my lady fighting her way from serving coffee to become "Business Woman Of The Year" in Norway.
And I have Lena sleeping in the bed beside me, totally exhausted every day of the week from fighting the same game on her way up.
But in general, I truly admire the women I meet with in Ukraine for being able to support a family on their own, working almost constantly every single hour of their life.
Ukrainians are well educated, certainly as well, if not better educated, than many of their Western counterparts. I had hoped, on the collapse of communism, that the country would flourish, with a rule of law by now, and a standard of living similar to that of some Western countries. I also assumed, after the collapse, that the suppressed arts would flourish, that there would be a burst of artistic creativity in all spheres. Instead, I read newspapers full of basic grammatical errors, suggesting the reporters' and editors' diplomas were purchased rather than earned, no interesting authors have emerged, and most of the musical artists are churning out rehashed Soviet pop tunes, or the same Europop. The country is ruled by the former ruling class who now, instead of being committed to communism, are corrupt oligarchs who live with no rule of law, not a care about how the populace they are elected to serve live, and no Moscow to control the worst of their avaricious impulses.
Bo,,, these are similar to my own thoughts 13 years ago, sitting behind the steering wheel of my own car, watching thousands of kilometers disappear at my side.
I remember very well, telling Lena to look closely at her own Ukraine, when passing by, because in a few years time it would all change it's face.
Looking back, I was quite a bit too optimistic about that.... smile
]
For the sake of others-- I will repeat what I have said previously and alluded to above. There are specific things Ukraine within my exposure that you know--or knew very little of -eg the mob and agency business-reference you agreeing with unesteemed member resident in Estonia and being prepared to dispute it with others on forum -some who were referencing first hand anecdotes from now wives-- who had in fact lived in Ukraine far more recently than you.
Let me give another example --- in response to a forum question( by LT as it it happens) as to how to get from a Ukraine city ( not far from where you came from :) ) -- a lady member!! advised a convoluted cross country route of bus and train connections to Kharkov.It was in winter and would have involved considerable time waiting around etc.
I suggested--the best and EASIEST way was to train/bus direct back to Kiev and catch express train to Kharkov.
For that simple common sense advice (which I stand by until this day) I was assailed by forum fools and bag carriers whose assertion was I would not have a clue etc and that "lady" had far more knowledge of Ukraine than me etc
Of course-- you still think I have never been there so not much I can say about that.
Your question is answered- please do not divert this thread. :)
I read the beginning of this post. I'm surprised to read this. I do not think that would be one of your list ... What do you think about the fact that someone from the women on your list, she will come to meet you and to meet again with 20 men in your city? It is possible that I either obsolete or I just do not understand something.
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post. Sorry. I'm not as computer literate as many on this forum.
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post.
Could you also show me how to get full size pictures to appear in the middle of the post.Supplementing what Muzh wrote, those must be stored ANYWHERE on the 'Net:
Elena:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:
I'm not going to elaborate on all the intricacies of long distance Internet dating here.
As I am sure it has been covered in great detail, over and over, earlier at this site.
Some of it, most recently in Pat's posting that was split out of this thread.
For me, I have a decided upon a method of writing as many as possible that are within my search parameters.
Then filtering these for whom to answer and continue writing with.
To weed out the non serious, I submit a link in the first intro letter to a web page made for this purpose.
Integrated into the code of this web page, I have a tracker that lets me see all info on those who visit my link.
With the help of different such web pages with trackers, I can monitor a woman's interest in my personal life.
Non serious women almost never visit's my links, but also some of the serious have a lack of interest initially.
The tracker tells me how many seconds a woman is using for studying a nice photo of Lena,
what she finds interesting to watch about our family life, and what photos of me or the boys she likes the most.
It also provides me with an open window to see what interest she has in my financial position.
Some of the women visited my links again and again, spending hours viewing photos and videos of my family.
A tool like this needs some evaluation from the user, for being able to connect the right leads when reading the results.
But it has proven itself invaluable for me, in understanding early on, who is genuinely interested in me and my boys.
And most of all showing me directly, whom to stop writing with immediately.
I used the same technique in one my business ventures earlier, by sending the prospective customer various links.
From what he used the most time watching in the links, I knew how to make my sale when calling him later.
Later on, I try to limit writing, Skype, messaging and phone to what is necessary for keeping in touch.
As much as possible, I try to keep any romance out of it till after our meeting.
All meetings are planned as an initial one hour meeting, in a ordinary restaurant over a cup of coffee / tea.
Making it very easy and non committing to find out we like each other, and if there is any kind of physical attraction.
This one hour meeting usually extended itself to the time of the restaurant closing, and sometimes into the wee hours.
All plans were initially made with an option for a second longer meeting, which I tried to carry through whenever possible.
Even in the second meetings I tried to avoid any romance in the sense of touching or kissing.
more later....
Fathertime and others...
start with post 142 back on page 6 and you can read all about it
That's it for today... folks
I will try to make a comprehensive guide to these and other techniques I used for finding my prospective women later.
It's Christmas day and I will go make my special Waldorf Salad
Lena is almost finished with the traditional Norwegian Christmas "Ribbe"
Wikipedia:
Ribbe = Roasted pork belly, usually served with sauerkraut and boiled potatoes, Christmas sausages, meat balls and gravy. A clear favourite, eaten by six out of ten households, mainly in Trøndelag and Eastern Norway.
A Waldorf salad is a salad traditionally made of fresh apples, celery and walnuts, dressed in mayonnaise, and usually served on a bed of lettuce as an appetizer or a light meal.
Thanks PatHey NK, I'm pretty surprised that the ability to track viewers of your profile exists in such detail...I wouldn't bother to do all this, but I can respect that it works for you...I just checked out the latest album...great photos...heck you can probably tell me which photos I liked best with that software of yours! hahah
You apparently understood the point of my writings,,,, smile
Here is an example from earlier this year
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Rstats1.jpg)
The lady on the top from Khmelnitskiy is clearly seriously interested, in me and my boys.
Having viewed 170 pages during 14 separate visits.
Spending all of 40 minutes on the last one of her 14 visits.
I could also study in detail what she looked at, and for how long.
Wow, NK and Pat. You guys raise this quest to a whole new Level of professionalism. Very good idea to monitor level of interest from ladies by watching traffic data. I never thought about that possibility back when I was "active". You two should get together and make a company offering services, you already have valuable tools.
Hey NK, Pat, GQ, Gator and other (me, me . . . don't forget me!! 8) )good planners . . . you know there are very few of us who have high abilities in planning and executing anything.
Most here have trouble even carrying out correspondence and meeting with one woman.
They hide behind this - - - concentrate on developing true love with the one and only . . . before the first meeting.
However, don't lose sight of the fact that it is still a crap shoot.
Planning and execution skills can increase the probability of success in any endeavor; but, in the end, there will still be an element of luck and we cannot delude ourselves that we have really found a 'till death do us part' mate.
But still, life is great with a person when you are both enjoying it to the MAX, are optimistic, and don't see an end in sight.
Pat
Yes, we used a somewhat different map for finding the way to Rome............
With much more than a hundred thousand Ukraine women, having profiles on dating sites now,
I figured I could afford a very narrow set of search criteria, and still find prospects.
By registering on almost every dating site available with Ukraine women, free and paid.
Yes, it was extremely time consuming, being close to a full time occupation for almost a year now.
But it did work, I did find young attractive mothers that passed through my small window,
and also showed a great interest in me and my boys, through writing and when meeting.
I was sending somewhere between one and two hundred intro letters for each prospect I ended up meeting with.
90% of all letters I wrote, ended in nothing, mostly because I didn't find it worthwhile to continue for some reason.
The tracking software for my web pages, was instrumental in getting rid of these "not 100% interested" women.
My intro letter was identical for everyone, a brief summary of my history and explaining why she was receiving it.
Consisting of 18 lines, neatly arranged in several paragraphs, and containing a link to my main intro webpage.
It was in Russian language, but clearly not written by a native, and at the same time, above Google translate.
My reasoning was that a perfect translation looked "bought", and Google translate, cheap and easy.
I tried to show my personal effort in providing a good Russian letter, by tweaking the result from Google translate
with the help of my own limited knowledge, and using a dictionary together with numerous back translations.
In the end Lena helped me a little also,, to get that special touch I wanted..
Result was that a lot of those answering, commented me also on my Russian writing skills,
I asked everyone the reason why they decided to answer my intro letter.
From their answers, I concluded that my intro letter was far above what they generally received from men.
Except for the intro, each and every one of my letters were personalized, and tailored to that individual woman.
Every single letter contained at least one new photo, from the present daily life of me and my boys.
As time passed by, I built a large matrix of reusable text blocks and photos, along with a database,
showing the history of all communication, with every woman I ever were in touch with...
Verbal communication on Skype, was much more difficult to keep track of and remember,,,
it's rather embarrassing, when you ask a woman the same question for the third time in six weeks,,,, smile
As a rule, I never mentioned anything that has monetary value, and can be touched by hand,,,
I was rather trying to focus on things we would have a common interest in.
Like: values, preferences, feelings, ideas, beliefs, thoughts, likes, dislikes, tastes, music, philosophy ++
And also activities you can enjoy wherever you are and whatever economic means you have available.
Like: family, children, animals, reading, being outdoor in nature, walks in the park, swimming, photography ++
Whenever they complained about life in Ukraine, I countered with positives about being alive in general.
And to look in the history books, to see how lucky we are, compared to those living in the centuries behind us.
The value of seeing and enjoying the positives of being alive and present, in what is, after all a wonderful world.
Values in my life, that were influenced also, by reading great Russian writers like Dostoyevsky.
And no Pat,, I never cared about the word "generous" it can mean a lot of different things for a woman,,, smile
More tricky, is meeting multiple women at the same time without lying.
I tried to avoid it, telling them that I was visiting for business, and only had a few hours available, for meeting over a cup of coffee.
Some of them still understood, but with a smile, others also understood, while being hurt and losing interest.
For me, I would rather choose the one that understood with a smile,,,,,
Gator
Almost no one asked me directly if I were meeting other women at the same time, but several of them were able to twist,
our conversation into a track where I had to admit something like:
"there was one other interesting woman I met with almost a week ago" instead of having to resort to an obvious lie.
I was telling the truth, but only a small and rather innocent part of it.
And the more advanced minds among them, probably filled in the missing pieces themselves, whether smiling or not....
Chicago
Yes, it is often easier to simply tell the truth.
But even in situations where you want to tell the truth, it is sometimes preferable to tell as little of it as possible,
to avoid hurting someone that will have a hard time accepting the bitter realities.
Further out in this trip report is Zap32, that became very sad, when understanding that I had been writing with,
and probably also meeting with other women than her,, after deciding to divorce.
Having no Internet dating experience, when she got started a few months earlier, she had been writing with me only.
Yes, let's get back to the trip report....
Meeting with lovely Kirhovorad32
The door on my passenger side opened abruptly,,,,
when turning around, I was looking directly into the face of a frustrated young woman, trying forcefully to smile at the same time.
"Ahh,, so this is were you had parked, I was thinking you were outside that supermarket on the other side of the road,
closer to the city limits,, you should have explained it more clearly for me, Jan... It is Ok,, I will drive in front of you, can you follow me?"
A little perplexed I stuttered,, "yes, my dear, I can"
Such was the beginning of my adventure with this mysterious "amazone", that I had been writing and Skyping with for months.
When calling her half an hour before arriving, it became clear to me, that I had been driving here much faster than what she had expected.
She told me to find a place for parking my car just after passing the city limits, and then to call her on the phone.
I had been sitting there, in my car, for almost an hour after calling her,
strategically parked outside a small supermarket, in case I wanted something to eat or drink while waiting.
I had agreed to meet with Kirhovorad32 from noon till evening, and then after work the following day,
which was more of a commitment than I would usually want to agree on.
But this was a woman I should have met with in the summer, if our schedules had matched at that time.
Even so, she was still kind of an unsolvable mystery to me, being very active on two different dating sites,
with a different name, location and photo for each of them, and being completely open about it, when I asked her.
Every now and then, she would ask what other women I was writing with, and what I didn't like about those I had met with.
(Much like Kiev32, who wanted me to show her the profiles, of all those I had met with, when staying with her in the summer)
As such, I was having some doubts about my position in her mind, not really understanding what she found interesting in me.
What got me,, was the attention she gave me before my trip, there was to be no doubt at all about her wanting to meet with me.
And we had such a great time together, whenever we were talking on Skype, that our meeting couldn't possibly be a total failure.
Following after Kirhovorad32's car, with her driving in front of me, proved to be an adventure in itself,
she was obviously familiar with every single pothole in the road, pedal to the floor like a Kiev cab driver about to miss an appointment .
After an eternity in time, spent driving behind her, she finally stopped her car outside an apartment block.
It had taken us almost 20 minutes, to drive across her city, to what I figured was the opposite side of it.
She got out of her car, locked it, and started walking towards me, while I was on my way out to open the door for her.
Did I ever have any doubts about my "amazone» being beautiful, they were definitely blown away at this moment.
She stopped in front of me with an inviting smile and opened her arms, showing me that she was ready to be hugged.
Returning her smile, I stretched my arms out and hugged her gently, before looking into her lovely smiling face again,
instant attraction it was……
more to come when time allows.....
Nooooh, don't stop!!! Lol
As far as telling a woman you are visiting many women, the last strategy I used turned out to be the best for me. I simply said I was on vacation and wanted to meet a lot of interesting people and was not on a mission to specifically find a wife. Also, I wanted to visit many of the historical sites (all true).
Larissa must have figured it out on her own, because she latched onto me and tracked me all over Ukraine. Like they say, if a FSU woman wants you.... there will be no doubt in your mind.....and you would have trouble escaping even if you wanted to. ;D
Thanks for that, Mr. Cal. Quite a goldmine of knowledge there!
I notice "watched" below your avatar. What is that supposed to mean?
Means I was a bad boy and am on probation for a while. ;D
jazztropy::ROFL:
I notice "watched" below your avatar. What is that supposed to mean?
It means Larissa is watching him here too :P
Here is a typical comic book expression of an amazon,,,
(Kirhovorad32 wouldn't need to feel the slightest bit ashamed, standing next to her either),,,,,, smile
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Raz1.jpg)
Thanks for the clarification of terms and the visual. it sounds like quite an amazone woman you have found! Hopefully things continue to move forward positively,,,,
FT
Amazon = Classical Myth & Legend,, Greek myth, a race of women warriors of Scythia near the Black Sea
They were supposed to be close to 2 meters high and very strong and dangerous women,,
and more of a legend than myth as they did exist, close to the Black Sea (in Ukraine also)
Todays myths, often portrays an "Amazon" as some kind of "ultra sexy, super feminist" (eating men for breakfast)
Amazone = an old French word, meaning among other things: a horseback riding woman, strong enough to ride alone without escort...
In todays world, sometimes used in the meaning of a strong beautiful woman "galleon figure",
And when portraying a more sexy, womanly variant of that 2 meter high woman warrior.........
A mix of these attributes befits Kirhovorad32 quite good, as she is an excellent horseback rider also......
Here is a typical comic book expression of an amazon,,,
(Kirhovorad32 wouldn't need to feel the slightest bit ashamed, standing next to her either),,,,,, smile
Gator
Almost no one asked me directly if I were meeting other women at the same time, but several of them were able to twist,
our conversation into a track where I had to admit something like:
"there was one other interesting woman I met with almost a week ago" instead of having to resort to an obvious lie.
I was telling the truth, but only a small and rather innocent part of it.
And the more advanced minds among them, probably filled in the missing pieces themselves, whether smiling or not....
I doubt the less advanced minds missed it either, without any extra pieces. Pretty much if she knows you are in the country, and not visiting with "her", she will think you are meeting with other women. Whether any of them steer the conversation that way or not, they know.The issue is one of the most important to get clear in your head.One of the biggest hurdles that has to be jumped is for her to know you are serious-both about her and in your search.If a girl knows you plan to see others-it will never be forgotten !! ;D
The 'best' women are those who:+2
* know (without being told) that you are on a WMVM,
* don't ask about it,
* don't care about it as they are confident in themselves and are not afraid of a competition.
I doubt the less advanced minds missed it either, without any extra pieces. Pretty much if she knows you are in the country, and not visiting with "her", she will think you are meeting with other women. Whether any of them steer the conversation that way or not, they know.+1
The 'best' women are those who:
* know (without being told) that you are on a WMVM,
* don't ask about it,
* don't care about it as they are confident in themselves and are not afraid of a competition.
A true Ukraine amazone
(http://www.northkape.com/R-web/Raz2.jpg)
Meeting more than one....
I agree with ML
Best are those who understands all of it by themselves,, and do exactly the same on their own.
Dave,, I did meet with a few that didn't understand.....
Like I wrote above:
Further out in this trip report is Zap32, that became very sad, when understanding that I had been writing with,
and probably also meeting with other women than her,, after deciding to divorce.
Having no Internet dating experience, when she got started a few months earlier, she had been writing with me only.
ShadowNK, the post was a reply in jest, as there are men who expect the women to sit and wait until they arrive. There are unrealistic expectations on both sides, and for both sides the key is to find someone who matches in expectations and character.
Why so,, I would consider the first two, to be the best women, doing exactly what I consider to be the smart way to find your one and only.
The third are the largest majority of women, they prefer a man of their own nationality, for a lot of different reason.
Better, in what context,,, ?? I can't actually remember any woman using that word when telling me, that I wasn't the one for her.
But whatever the context, i am fully aware that there are men better than me in all possible ways, wherever the geographical place.
It doesn't matter as long as I find the one I'm looking for. And whatever "worst" she might be for another man, she can still be my "best",,,,, smile
The "worst"women are those who:
* are corresponding with and meeting other men while they are corresponding with you
* do not tell you about it
* tell you the other guy they met was better than you.... and he is RUSSIAN.
QuoteThe "worst"women are those who:
* are corresponding with and meeting other men while they are corresponding with you
* do not tell you about it
* tell you the other guy they met was better than you.... and he is RUSSIAN.
I wouldn't agree with this.
Anyway, I believe its best to not date women who make an issue about a man traveling 7000 miles and possibly meeting other women. I took it as a sign of a desperate woman, a woman with no dating life, or a woman with some issues (e. g. controlling, highly emotional, no self-esteem, etc.).
IMO most of the better women were not staying home alone before a Western man got on a plane to meet her.
Why straight away think women have issues and not to consider those women believe guys who travel to meet many women have issues? Which actually closer to the way they look on the matter.
Of course those women are not staying at home alone without any kind of personal life.
It is one thing to meet someone special and decide to go meet that particular person even if that person is abroad and other thing to think guy in order to meet women have to go abroad therefore has some issues with meeting women locally. 8)
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.
So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not?
And if there is some chemistry but she wishes to proceed with her meetings schedule as planned just in case she meets better candidate. Also in meantime she wishes to keep contact (you know in case there is no better option).
Gator/Mish, you both commented only that you would meet but said nothing if you would question (even if at least in your mind) why she has to travel so far for dating. Good looking woman without issues should not have a trouble finding someone locally and here you are meeting good looking girl who instead of dating locally setting up number of dates abroad. Your mind will just blank out that fact?
The only aspect that gives me cause MissAmeno is the fact she is evaluating everyone as a husband rather than dating, having fun, and seeing what develops.
No! It certainly would be a point of discussion sometime at our meeting. I would not phrase it as "There must be something wrong with you." I would try to be subtle.
missA,
I mean, if you've seen my mug, there are some much better looking guys out there. Why can't she land one of them? Why does she have to settle for me?
Gator :blowkiss:
I never understood 'I am looking for wife/husband'. In my mind you meet someone first, then build relationship to the point when you want to spend the rest of your life with that person and only then think about marriage. When I found these forums I was shocked there are people who decide to marry first and only then start to search whom they should marry. This concept for me is backwards from what I see as natural process.
But the OP in this thread had made meeting many women (and sleeping with some) a journey to many kingdoms. ::)
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.
So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not? Will you think she could be the one for you or you would wonder why on earth she needs to get on the plane to have a cup of tea with random guys? Would your mind do not play with idea she has some issues otherwise she would not have trouble to date in her own country?
>:D >:D >:D
... If she doesn't like men in her own country, that in itself would not be a problem for me...but I would try to ascertain what it was that left her feeling that way and decide if I am pretty much the same thing she doesn't like...
Even if you do not say to her anything at all about it, it is something that you will think about and try to understand the reasons behind her actions.
Same with FSUW when guys offer them meeting for cup of tea while they are in the country to meet as many women as possible. Some FSUW will agree to meet and ask more questions, some will decide it is waste of time because more likely something is wrong with a guy in a first place.
Let's add one more twist ... :devil:
She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?
Let's add one more twist ... >:D
She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?
Sleeping with some or one? Northkape is discrete about sex and what little he has revealed suggests very little sex.
And if he had sex with more than one woman, so what. He is a grownup as are the women he meets. Sex is wonderful with the right person at the right time.
Gator/Mish, you both commented only that you would meet but said nothing if you would question (even if at least in your mind) why she has to travel so far for dating. Good looking woman without issues should not have a trouble finding someone locally and here you are meeting good looking girl who instead of dating locally setting up number of dates abroad. Your mind will just blank out that fact?
Let's add one more twist ... >:D
She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?
Let's add one more twist ... :devil:
She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.
Well, I confess, I will be like most men and will decide within ten seconds of seeing her photo ;) If I get a continuous stream of attractive women asking me for dates, then, yes, I would certainly try to meet them all as I know dating is a numbers game.
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.
AND, quite a bit older 12-15+ in yearsBut looking much younger.. well... only in their own mind. ;D
Let's see, had I met such a woman in my twenties, would I have been willing to consider the option to be a kept man, perhaps going to Harvard, Yale or Oxford for example as the husband of of the daughter of an oligarch and then staying at home to raise children and dedicate myself to my personal and professional fulfilment... Hmmm, let me think. To answer the question, I will cite Sarah Palin: "You betcha!" ;D So, yes, I would still have met these sweet daughters of oligarchs and gone on a date with them ;)
I am actually quiet intrigued now about what would have been your thoughts, guys, if you would have ended up being put in same position.
So ... you met online woman from different country who informs you she is seeking husband. She for one or another reason doesn't like men from her own country and wants to find husband from your country. She is planning to visit your country shortly and offers you meet for cup of tea to see if there is any chemistry between you two. While she is visiting your country she is planning to do such meetings as with you as with many men as possible in order for her to find the best potential husband. Do you meet her or not? Will you think she could be the one for you or you would wonder why on earth she needs to get on the plane to have a cup of tea with random guys? Would your mind do not play with idea she has some issues otherwise she would not have trouble to date in her own country?
:devil: :devil: :devil:
To be comparable, one needs to add still another twist. Marriage would require you to move to Moscow on a permanent basis. Instead of Harvard, Yale or Oxford you would go to Moscow State University.
Now adding still another twist, assume America had become a place whose socioeconomic situation inhibited my ability to accomplish something in my professional life. If so, I would probably move.
Now lets add another twist. The women are not attractive, but very sweet and can offer you a better lifestyle due to them being daughter of an olicharch.
Gator :blowkiss:
I never understood 'I am looking for wife/husband'. In my mind you meet someone first, then build relationship to the point when you want to spend the rest of your life with that person and only then think about marriage. When I found these forums I was shocked there are people who decide to marry first and only then start to search whom they should marry. This concept for me is backwards from what I see as natural process.
Let's add one more twist ... >:D
She is not the only one. You get such request regularly from various women from abroad. Do you go meet every one of them? Or you do not bother wasting your time and try to find someone who interested just in you instead of all those who inviting you for cup of tea in order that they could evaluate you in comparison with all other their dates?
What I would NOT do is schedule a set of meetings with a lot of women. That is like hoping there will be a much better one right around the corner. Basically, that would say I'm not sure of what I want or I'm not confident in my own judgement.
What I would NOT do is schedule a set of meetings with a lot of women.
Sure, perhaps scheduling in advance is not something that I would want to do, but conversely, I do not see the need to screen candidates for a simply date with such precision to ensure perfection. Sometimes, it can be fun and interesting to meet new people even if their eyes are not quite the right shade or shape or they may even have different interests and do not agree with you on each and every point. Sometimes, surprises can be fun, and meeting people simply because you enjoy people can also have its rewards. That is precisely what I liked about dating in Russia way back in the day: women were much more willing to meet with men if if they did not seem perfect.
Thank god for choices, eh?
.....I feel like I'm doing exactly that,
meeting a number of women that I have some knowledge about, to see if there is a feeling of attraction with some of them.
For then to choose the one where there is mutual interest in going forward with more meetings, to see what happens.
And finally when both feel comfortable to do so, make a decision about marrying at some point in the future.
Do I detect a note of irony for emphatic effect, the irony that WM have choices and FSUW do not? The unchosen turn to the unchosen, the woman reluctantly, the man enthusiastically.
Dog with a bone, eh, as that was another thread, now defunct?
May we please allow Northkape to continue his story. I believe the man is close to revealing a major step in his chosen path.
Well, Misha had his choice and I had mine. Simple.
Chill.
It seems to me he is in the process of doing the eenie meenie miney moe, which would be the best one to...
Or, I wish I lived in Utah and be a Mormon.
Alas, what was my choice?
She proved to be a bit over the hill for me, so I dropped her.
At the moment I'm waiting outside the flat of my "Cyprus darling" to meet with her again
She proved to be a bit over the hill for me, so I dropped her.
No problems at all with driving,,
level of traffic on roads outside cities however,
seems to be back to what it was 10-14 years ago....
And flights less than half full,,,,
Same flights a year ago was always full two to three weeks in advance
I don't see any degree holders in history, Russian or English literature, or musical talents such as pianists or violinists, etc. among your list of favorites so far, am I right about that?
Have you considered explicitly looking for a woman who embodies more of the "softer, feminine" traits which such studies usually attract? Like say, a pediatric nurse instead of a doctor; a history or literature professor; an accomplished musician who now teaches music?
Can I ask you NorthKape, it seems to me, that you go for the "hard charging" or what we call "Type A" personality girls.
I mean, a girl that is accomplished at a difficult course of intellectual study, one that is logical / precise instead of literary/artistic. Even to the point of dating a "stubborn" girl :D
I don't see any degree holders in history, Russian or English literature, or musical talents such as pianists or violinists, etc. among your list of favorites so far, am I right about that?
Have you considered explicitly looking for a woman who embodies more of the "softer, feminine" traits which such studies usually attract? Like say, a pediatric nurse instead of a doctor; a history or literature professor; an accomplished musician who now teaches music?
I can't really say Slumba
My selection is limited to those mothers who answers my intro letter and pass my web test.
At her present home, she has few boundaries,
and mostly respect for her own decisions, only.
This will not roll smoothly with me, but I see no problems,,, smile..
...Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...
Actually, I hate cellphone, and use it only when there is no alternative...
What a beauty! There is something romantic in her looks.
Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?
NK,
Both you and ML seem to have an inordinate amount of free time to invest in this venture. Do you have any recommendations for the average-Joe-worker with 3 or 4 weeks vacation each year?
Do you feel like your lady selections and your processs got better tuned-in as time goes on and the number of ladies met increases? As for myself, 2 or 3 ladies I met on my 1st trip were probably better than almost all the others that I met later.
Most of them seem to be recommending "don't do it" as Choice No. 1!Not sure who "them" is. I would estimate 98% of the ladies would say "do it". Most would prefer a younger working professional to a age 65 retired person with a lot of time on his hands. I will pass on your 2nd question. Difficult to
So, is your wife one of those "2 or 3" from the first trip? Or is she the exception in your "almost?"
a young woman will likely become westernized at some point. At first, my ex developed friendships with other RUW's married to Americans (all of whom by the way divorced sooner or later). After she went back to college in the states, she started developing friendships with local women and this is when the changes began. By the time she got her first full-time job, the changeover was complete.
A common refrain here; she became westernized, or was influenced by other FSUW, and she changed. People generally are who they are. Their core personalities don't change much over time, but they do grow. Single young women, and particularly teens, generally don't dream of marrying men their fathers' ages, or, sometimes, older. Most age disparate WM/FSUW matches are not love matches. So, it is not a surprise that as a young woman's opportunities and choices expand, the corresponding expansion in what she can now achieve on her own, and what she can find in a mate, have an effect on her as well.
Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with :rolleyes:
I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.
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[/size]The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself
Yup. In essence, those 18-24 year old women eventually grow up. So, rather than work on the marriage to the woman one was supposedly in love with, time to turn her out and go find another hot body I can impress my friends with. This is so much easier than finding the actual life partner to begin with :rolleyes:
I think as long as the old dude understands the deal, like "notforene" (A number of years. How many? It depends.), and sticks to his part of the deal, like pay for her education and help her establish herself in the new country, it can be an okay arrangement.
The risk is all on the girl, particularly if she 1) sticks to such a marriage for longer than necessary 2) doesn't use the marriage time to better and establish herself
I have to agree with Fathertime about impressing friends. I think in a few cases some of the motivation for a younger, beautiful wife may be to impress friends. The type of person who feels he must drive a Mercedes that he can't quite afford and live in a house he can't quite afford is probably the type that wan'ts an impressive woman on his arm. For me I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.
I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.
Oh . . . bla, bla, bla.There wasn't a dishonest word in my post ML. I couldn't care less what my friends think. My wife never ceases to amaze and impress me and that is all I care about but I look at her beauty as just a plus.
We don't have to be dishonest here.
Of course we guys want to impress friends.
A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.
I always thought it was likely that someone who "needs" to impress others with the car in their driveway, their house, or the beauty queen on their arm must suffer from low self esteem.
I have just never felt a need to make my friends jealous.
. . . . . .
I am sure if needing to make friends jealous . . .
Here are my original words:
"Of course we guys want to impress friends. A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.
I guess I must have a psychological problem then, probably worse than low self esteem. I do not have a "want" to impress my friends.
I like to fly the cheapest way because I am a cheapskate not that I need to brag about it to impress anyone.
Ah, so I am not the only one playing amateur psychologist. You seem to be doing a good job of analyzing the motives of Hunt and Buffet.
I would think that most men would NOT marry a young woman IN ORDER TO IMPRESS FRIENDS, but rather because they just simply like younger women for other reasons.
Fathertime!
I am with Turbo. Everyone is different. I have never been a showoff. I try to understate my accomplishments, my signs of success. E. g., I drive a 17-yo SUV, but that is fine because I drive only 3-4k per year because the golf course is next door. My wife refuses to ride in my truck.
Confession: I will admit that in a large social gathering, I enjoy seeing my woman all dressed up, looking fabulous. I marvel at her glamour, not the reactions of others.
Ot is silly for you to go chasing a guy around on other theads and speak of his wife. It sounds like u are condemning guys who marry younger women because they like em. That is nice you married a woman your own age. Who cares?
Bullshevik!!
Now I know you live in a parallel universe. OR are trying to justify marrying someone who could be your daughter's age.
Ot is silly for you to go chasing a guy around on other theads and speak of his wife. It sounds like u are condemning guys who marry younger women because they like em. That is nice you married a woman your own age. Who cares?
Fathertime!
Of course she is. What action are you grumbling about. My wife is 17.5 years younger than me and gorgeous (to me) and a very good mother.What difference does it make if somebody else is envious or not? I see no benefit either way.
Get a hold of your self-adulating self.
I'm not talking ABOUT your wife at all. I'm referring to your actions. Nothing else.
As far as I'm concerned your wife is an angel and an innocent by-stander.
Weren't you on record here boasting about comparing "Johnsons" with I/O and being proud of your "achievement?"
. . . the blower fan on my unit has been making a little noise for awhile, and now has turned to a 'whump, whump'
I sort of like sleek and modern and dislike antiques but my wife collects antiques. She only has one antique in her collection, Me.
I collect antiques, dislike sleek modern,
So, in the end, if age disparity was not a consideration, then Baba wants to know why no one ever wrote to her considering she's a bit younger than most of our members here.
I also admit that the number of pretty faces prompted me to take the first trip, yet it was NOT to bring one back to showoff to my friends.
...He said: "Why? . . . I wouldn't be able to later tell my friends about her!"
He said: "Why? . . . I wouldn't be able to later tell my friends about her!"
I drive a beat up pickup with 162,000 miles on it and live in a house that is 114 years old and quite average or less.
I drive a 17-yo SUV, but that is fine because I drive only 3-4k per year because the golf course is next door. My wife refuses to ride in my truck.
I have sometimes had the feeling that some of the members here get loaded once in a while as well.
We all know you're both loaded
And of course, for me and Tanya being at the beginning of a new and exciting love affair,,,,
we have the wonderful "rabbit period" that most couples goes through in the first 1-2 years of a new relationship.......
I'm still lost. Is that last pic of female helping boy with sunglasses the mother or the daughter?
OMG- Tanya is 27 years younger!
OMG- Tanya is 27 years younger!
Ade,,,Yes, a common misconception among mankind throughout the history books,, to think that everyone else is limited to live and find happiness within one's own restricted boundaries of understanding.(and it's also not easy to comment intelligently on something one didn't fully read or comprehend,,,, it was always her single daughter, not kids,,, smile)
I will have to disagree with you here. She was looking for a foreign man, was she not? Why is that?
Scandinavian countries (and Western countries, in general) do have many more opportunities for advancement, self fulfillment, even material well being, than does Ukraine. Why do you think Ukrainian emigration is so high? Why do you think UW advertise themselves across the globe?
Bo,,What exactly do you disagree with?My reference to a statement about mankind's generally limited ability, to understand and accept other priorities in life, than those tolerated inside their own restricted minds.Well there is a reason we still have wars.........
"Scandinavian countries (and Western countries, in general do have many more opportunities and so on"Yes, I would consider this to be true in general,, but wether you accept it or not, I don't think it's fully applicable on an individual level.
Most of the women I met with had good jobs with many opportunities for advancement and self fulfillment if they wanted it, What they were missing in their lives was a man, and many (including Tanya) were looking first and foremost for a Ukraine or Russian man.
And I don't consider my non native English,, as being a reason for reading a "too literal" meaning, into Ade's faulty use of the plural "kids". I let it slip by in his previous posting without commenting,, but referring to "kids" twice,, was a valid reason for me to correct it.For me, it shows me a person, who didn't fully read what I was writing before commenting.
North this, as you posted seemed like a good avenue.ML, Northkape can answer it better but I presume he was caught out by Norway not being a member of the EU, even is they are member of Schengen. Within the EU she would have been able to remain as spouse while the paperwork was processed, however for Norway other rules may apply.
"If she and her daughter came here on a Schengen Visa, they would be allowed to stay in Norway, while their applications would be processed in parallel."
So is that the part of the plan that didn't work out, for one reason or another?
Thanks for all the nice words,, smilesHey NK your post is a little confusing.
I will try to explain a little….
What follows is only a small start, on a summary of the troubles we had to go through in the last two months of 2014.
"If she and her daughter came here on a Schengen Visa, they would be allowed to stay in Norway, while their applications would be processed in parallel."
Problem was that I mentioned a future family reunion in the Schengen Tourist Visa application.
Then of course, it was automatically rejected,, because they need to be sure she would return to Ukraine
We appealed, and discussed the case at length with the head of the visa section in the Norwegian Embassy in Kiev.
After 7 days of us waiting, they decided to let the Norwegian Immigration Department make the final decision.
At that time, I had no choice but to go home,,,,
because of all the difficulties I had made for Lena and my boys at home, by being away longer than we had agreed about.
On top of this, I had created a very unpleasant situation for Tanya and her young daughter.
Tanya had moved out of her apartment with all her belongings, taken her daughter out of school and activities, and ended the relationship with her partners at AngelFactory.
I felt like leaving her and her daughter stranded on a barren island with nowhere to go.
And our plan to marry had failed also, in the days before applying for the visa,,,
More to follow later......
This story reads like Swiss Cheese - way way too many holes in it. :wallbash:
Hey NK your post is a little confusing.
Fathertime!
FT, please try to stay in context with North's story. English isn't his first language although he does speak it very well. Even though his syntax sounds correct if you've followed the post, it isn't what he meant. Perhaps "I felt like I was leaving them"
you're welcome ;)
Welcome the forum Seekrr. Don't believe what you're reading is possible?
You tell me.
Sorry for not updating,,,,,,,,,
Tanya and Sofia (her daughter) have been here in Norway with me for almost two weeks now.
My house is only halfway finished on the inside, with tools and building materials everywhere, buried in dust and spiderweb. While I have been doing most of the cooking, she has been cleaning every inch of the house. Everything that can be cleaned, all clothes, cabinets, windows, and even the building materials / tools......
Last weekend, Lena called Tanya, and asked to stay with us and boys from Saturday morning till evening. Tanya said yes, and we all had a nice day together, with them chatting and laughing together several times during her stay with us. Maybe exchanging jokes about me,,,,, smile.
With both of us being so fortunate,, to once again live and feel like rabbits, I can just hope for it to be a long lasting experience :-)
Oh . . . bla, bla, bla.
We don't have to be dishonest here.
Of course we guys want to impress friends.
A big satisfaction for me is knowing how jealous other guys are.
I know they are saying . . . how the he!! did he get her; and why can't I have someone like her. I know because the truthful ones tell me.
And the honest gal's know what the plan is also.
The honest gals will say: Everything we do (in terms of appearance) is for men.
Come on men . . . man up here. A feminine side may be OK, but let's don't overdo it.
We are leaving Melitopol now,, driving to Kiev during the night, have appointment at dentist there tomorrow….
More to follow,,,
The relationship between Tanya and my boys is still more than difficult. She consider them to be "Lena’s children”, and as such don’t want to be a “nanny" for her children.
She is so easily irritated and upset at whatever minor “wrongdoing” she finds in my boys behavior. While she sees straight through whatever faults are present in her own daughter.
With two sets of rules within our family, one for me and boys and another for Tanya and her daughter, my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.
...and you have decided to stay with her apparently.
In spite of these problems, Tanya has apparently decided to stay with me for years to come,,,
The relationship between Tanya and my boys is still more than difficult. She consider them to be "Lena’s children”, and as such don’t want to be a “nanny" for her children.
She is so easily irritated and upset at whatever minor “wrongdoing” she finds in my boys behavior. While she sees straight through whatever faults are present in her own daughter.
With two sets of rules within our family, one for me and boys and another for Tanya and her daughter, my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.
On top of this, my ongoing economic problems has added a lot of strain on our relationship,
Tanya is doing well with her business, but wants to use more money for herself and helping her family in Ukraine, instead of helping me pay our bills.
In spite of these problems, Tanya has apparently decided to stay with me for years to come,,,
Will add more shortly....
Jan -- nice to read the update -- not so nice to read of potential problems.
On top of this, my ongoing economic problems has added a lot of strain on our relationship,
..
my relationship with her daughter has slowly deteriorated also.
Tanya can't help being controlled by her feelings when upset, even though she knows it's not always a rational reaction.
I have learned to let her endless criticizing of me, pass through my ears.
Natural, FT, Bo, Jay, Billy,
Thanks a lot for your comments,,,,,
I will try make a short answer before I continue the update.
No red flags as such in my opinion, but a difficult family situation, where I'm continually balancing on an edge, trying to keep conflicts to a minimum.
Kicking Tanya out is not an option at all :-)
I know very well that Tanya's attitude is one that is common in Ukraine, and totally foreseeable as such in general,,,
But I'm always optimistic, and on an individual level, generalities might not apply.
When reading Norwegian / Swedish forums about split family problems, it sometimes makes me feel quite comfortable with our relatively minor conflicts.
My relationship with Tanya's daughter is often hit by the difficult situation I'm in, when pressed into a corner,,, to side with my boys or with her in a conflict.
Being totally neutral isn't always an option. She is always siding with her mother, often against my boys.
These are mostly silly conflicts, often about minor things like; who forgot: to clean, close a cabinet, leave last piece of pie, feed animals, put shoes in correct place, and so on.
Sofia gets very upset when Tanya is criticizing her, and for me to criticize her, about anything at all, is never accepted,,,
so butthurt,,, that I consider it not worth doing.
On the other side, me and boys are talking about these situations, being totally aware of the realities in these conflicts and trying to avoid any escalating at all costs.
But it sure feels like walking on needles every now and then.
Tanya on her side is criticizing me for splitting our family,, and has her own opinion of me being responsible for most of the conflicts :-)
Me and especially Lena should have learned boys how to do, and remember all of this and that.....
In reality a normal week is like this, me and boys leave for school / work 7.30, when Tanya and Sofia gets out of bed.
Sofia goes to training all weekdays in a neighbor city, Tanya and me are at work together, till Sofia is finished between seven and eight in the evening.
Boys goes to home after school / activities, and are at home in their room when we arrive at nine or so.
I will then make some food and we eat together, usually without Sofia, as she is keeping her special diet most days.
After eating, boys returns to their room, going to bed an hour or so earlier than Sofia/
Counseling wouldn't ever help for us at all,,
Tanya can't help being controlled by her feelings when upset, even though she knows it's not always a rational reaction.
I have learned to let her endless criticizing of me, pass through my ears.
Tanya is controlling every part of her economy all the time, and I have no problems with that.
I never ask how much she has in her account or what she made last month.
She contributes what she thinks is fair, and usually accepts my request for help with this or that bill to be payed.
Having a common economy is not an option at this time, as my economy is a bottomless pit, that is drained for every penny the moment it arrives.
But for me it would be nicer for her to have the passport sooner,,, for traveling especially.
The boys just couldn't stand the "replacement" of their mother.
Boethius , NK doesn't tells us even half of what really is happening.
Yet, my posting was NOT about how each of them act- I can imagine how hurtful their mom and dad's divorce was for them when their mother had to leave the house .Why? Why did the boys stay with NK? Do you really know?
For a FSU woman to have to leave two young children is horrible. It's a huge drama for both boys and Lena.
Doesn't matter who eats what and at what time with them- they will never forgive.
that was my leniency, my husband would have taken it much longer-he gave them one warning, and that was it. He once stopped driving, took a toy they were arguing about which he'd told them to stop arguing about, and ran it over.
On a similar note, is this a joyful marriage? Why would you want to be with someone who criticizes you endlessly?
Jay, you are referring to NK's writing here but let's look at the situation: the mother of two young children is forced out the house and the family when she has to leave two boys to live with their father. Lena is FSU woman, remember? For us, this is the worst drama. Divorce is divorce but to have to leave two children is horrible. I can't see anything amicable in it.
If I recall correctly --this was an amiable parting of the ways with previous wife -- and an ongoing amiable relationship.
That would help the sons-- correct?
Again, I am writing all this knowing FSU women mentality.
Jay, you are referring to NK's writing here but let's look at the situation: the mother of two young children is forced out the house and the family when she has to leave two boys to live with their father. Lena is FSU woman, remember? For us, this is the worst drama. Divorce is divorce but to have to leave two children is horrible. I can't see anything amicable in it.
What made it worse- a "new" wife with a teen girl.
The chances that this new marriage could work were slim to nothing.
Again, I am writing all this knowing FSU women mentality.
You have the story completely wrong.Then she is crazy. Anyway, my major point is that the boys didn't accept the "new mother". I don't blame them.
It was Lena who wanted to end the marriage, Lena who wanted to leave the home and make a career in Oslo, Lena who wanted the boys to stay with their father, Lena who helped him find the new wife Tanya.
the boys didn't accept the "new mother". I don't blame them.
Of cource, it is not their task.
To create peace and quiet in the family - it is the duty of a wise woman.
Only woman creates climate in the family, but not husband and children.
I know why Tanya is doing this. Actually Jan said it already.
I've seen hundreds stories like this.
I've seen this story with WM's step-kids and RW's kids play out on russian-fiancee over and over again - all along the same lines as Tanya and Jan's story. Very typical.
I assumed the delay was so that they could eat together as a family.
Hi Jan, thanks for extensive update. Happy for the good news, sad for your bad news.
1) Why didn't you immediately switch to Norwegian when she first arrived?
2) You said: "Tanya and me are at work together."
Do you mean at the same work location . . . or do you just mean you two are at work during same time period?
3) You are eating large meal after 9 in evenings??
4) How does this work out logistically . . . living mostly in Sweden and partly in Norway.
You have 2 different actual homes? And how far apart are these homes?
And why isn't the Swedish language also part of the necessity for all of you??
How do the children attend school in Norway, if they live mostly in Sweden?
5) Children start college in Norway at age 15 ???
Is this really a college like children in USA start at age 18-19 after 13 years of secondary schooling (Kindergarten + 12th grade)?
But your optimism has real effects on your sons, who had no say in bringing Tanya into their lives, or how she relates to them.
I have often said that parents should not remarry while they have the responsibility of children, and this, and the split family problems, is the reason why. Children have no say in the step parent brought into their lives, which is why they often act out. And then, people are upset at the deterioration of "family values".
The daughter should have ZERO say in this. You and Tanya need to resolve this, and the children need to be told that their views on the matter are not required.
Our children are all close in age, only a year between our two oldest, 3 years between the oldest and youngest. IMHO, growing up in a family of girls, and having an oldest girl and then two boys, girls are far more vicious, difficult, and bossy. At the ages of your children, when there was a conflict (almost always involving our daughter and one of our sons, our sons never fought), the solution was simple. If they were fighting over something, none of them had access to it. It was removed because they couldn't resolve the issue. We never had issues with them arguing over chores, it was always over the x-box, or control of the tv remote. Solution? It's gone for a day (and to be honest, that was my leniency, my husband would have taken it much longer-he gave them one warning, and that was it. He once stopped driving, took a toy they were arguing about which he'd told them to stop arguing about, and ran it over. So, from very early childhood, they learned how to resolve their conflicts before appealing to him. I was the "soft" one, and their conflicts were always when my husband was at work). So I suggest if there is an argument over chores, each of them be given a task that must be completed by X day, all on the same schedule. When the consequences are less pleasant than the argument, the arguments will, eventually, stop.
I don't know how you can argue over who forgot to do chores, either they are assigned or they are not, and in the latter case, what good is the finger pointing? Just call them all in, have them all do the chore together, and suggest they all try to remember their duties.
Why are you avoiding this? It should be resolved, not avoided. Avoidance eventually creates resentment. Also, why is this even an issue for Tanya? She is coming home late, they are away all weekend, so it seems she barely interacts with them.
From your description, it appears she is correct on the split, though if Tanya doesn't like it, she needs to be training them to do these things with patience. It sounds as if she doesn't have patience and has a "my way or the highway" attitude. It doesn't matter if you didn't teach them, complaining about it is non productive.
This to me, is especially sad. Your boys are really raising themselves. Do they ever hear a positive word from Tanya? When you look back at this time, will you honestly be able to say you spent quality time with your sons? It seems to be a significant change from their life prior to your marriage. Why not just let them move to Oslo now? None of their activities or school work will suffer, long term, assuming their mother is home in the evenings. Wouldn't that be better for them than being on pins and needles in their own home, and spending a majority of their evenings alone? What kind of family life is this for them? If payments are the issue, ask Lena if she can forgo some of that while you get back on your feet, with help from you as you can manage.
On a similar note, is this a joyful marriage? Why would you want to be with someone who criticizes you endlessly?
The majority of women in Scandinavia has a different opinion on mixed families.
it's not always working good, same as in many struggling marriages where they stay together.
Other families manage well, and then everything in between.
Children have no say in what parents they are born with either.
Have no idea what you are talking about here.
In my home, children have the right to voice their opinion about things related to them.
Not relevant here at all. There are no fighting between boys and Sofia about any physical object ever. First priority for most children this age today, seems to be social media.
Not relevant, misunderstanding.
No arguing, but Tanya criticizing boys, and Sofia agreeing, even though she might be as guilty as boys.
Escalating a conflict is like adding fuel to fire, might take days to overcome.
Keeping mouth shut and more or less ignoring the critic, or just agreeing, means no conflict, and all forgotten ten minutes later.
Really Bo, you have no idea what you are talking about,,,
I have told earlier in this thread about twins, and how they can create their own little family inside a family.
My boys have this, along with the good and the bad effects related to it.
Anyway it makes them very robust for handling external family situations.
They are home after school and activities, if you didn't notice. Boys always had a lot of activities after school.
Nowadays: Piano lessons two times a week (one classic the other modern) same teacher for almost ten years, chess evening once a week, gym center two - three times a week, sometimes painting & drawing where they also have been with the same teacher for almost ten years.
And they voluntarily participate in the homework club at their school, at least once a week after school. The brightest students, along with teachers, are helping the less talented students do their homework.
Sometimes they are barely home before us, other days an hour or two before. They usually make a quick meal when coming home, at the same time they are doing their homework.
And of course Tanya is saying positive things to my boys, she has a good relationship with Mikael, and he likes her.
Daniel is a very bright, intelligent boy, but introvert and difficult to get close to, for me and Lena also, even though he like Lena more than me.
It's easy for Tanya also, to see, that many times, Mikael would prefer to stay with us instead of going to Lena in the weekend.
Yes, no problems,, needing a visa for going a weekend to London,,,, USA, just forget it, on an Ukrainian passport.
Ouch half past five,,,,
More to follow when time allows..
Hi Jan. Great pics; thanks for posting them and the updates.
In pic where the gals are dancing . . . what happened to the bottom of Tanya's dress that previously dragged on the floor?
Well *I* can see it rucked up behind her knees - if you can't )
Recently took 2 Scandinavian Ferries ( The Finns aren't Scandanavian, btw ?!) and these discos are manic
Scandinavia - Sweden, Norway and Denmark
even though its possible for an outsider to diagnose and criticize my family life in such a way, it's mostly non relevant noise in my ears.
So the purpose of your sharing all this is...?
Or the question could be - why would you feel the need to comment ? ...;)
Thank goodness folks do post the things that are happening in their lives / good or bad ... there's SO many on here who just snipe and contribute NOTHING other than political nonsense that has nought to do with the FSU ..
Thanks but I didn't ask you any questions so "why did you feel the need to comment"?
What is you name again? northkape?
Perhaps bite the bullet and hire a person or two....I know easier said then done.
As usual I'm still struggling with the same troubles I always had in life,
never enough hours in a day, or days in a week.
Always far behind schedule, because my innovative & creative self, is occupying too large a part of my daily life.
Often hurting my economy badly at the same time.
However, it's what makes, and always made life exiting, and worth living for me. But of course, not so much for Tanya.
So many times, Tanya wants me to take photos of her and her creations.
I'm usually reluctant to this, as it so easily ends up with her being upset with me.
She is an accomplished photographer herself, but has this distorted idea,
that I should somehow be mentally connected to her mind, when taking photos of her.
What I do, or my ideas, are always wrong,,,, I should have done like this or that instead of what I was doing.
This session was finished in ten minutes, with her upset, and we didn't talk with each other for the next hour or two.
So many times, Tanya wants me to take photos of her and her creations.
I'm usually reluctant to this, as it so easily ends up with her being upset with me.
She is an accomplished photographer herself, but has this distorted idea,
that I should somehow be mentally connected to her mind, when taking photos of her.
What I do, or my ideas, are always wrong,,,, I should have done like this or that instead of what I was doing.
This session was finished in ten minutes, with her upset, and we didn't talk with each other for the next hour or two.
Thanks for the update, and like everything it seems you got to do it your own way. Lovely photos as usual.
Yes, FT,,,, I had employees in many of my earlier business ventures, between 10 and 20 at the most.
Really the main reason, I want to go alone as far as I can get, this time around.
Awesome pics. You should be a photographer.(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/icon_thumleft.gif)