Did you help to her financially?

[Jumper]

it's nice to live in a black and white world..
and its good to see a man of conviction.

For myself, the more i see in the life,especially regarding human hardships,  the larger the gray areas become.What i once firmly believed to be b/w ,
changes with seeing situations that alter my perception of how things were, are, or should be.

Since you were stateing you had never sent any of the RW you were involved with money:

you avoided my questions of wether you were engaged to any of them -
what this post started about..
 or
 if they were struggling - my personal gray area.. *shrugs*

so no, i dont really know i thing about you Peewee.. LOL
and nothing pertinant to this thread..
and dont know if you such a strong man of your convictions,
 that if you were to by fate,
fall in love with a less well off RW, 
that after engagement, you would rather watch your intended wife truly struggle, rather than risk "buying " her love?

afterall by the time you are engaged , it would hopefully already be known that you care about and love each other,and why.
I wouldnt think couples at that point would be pondering the 'whys"
 they were involved with each other?
 
isnt that the crux of this whole matter?
if men KNEW for sure , they wouldnt sweat it?
so why propose, until sure its someone who shares your views on such important things as family finances?
hopefully you are asking somone to marry you, and share the rest of your lives together, that you can trust with such a simple thing as regular and exopected expences??

*buying* her love, would seem more of an issue during the meeting and dating period?

the thread starter was asking about engagement.. so all along that is where i was coming from.

I do believe that by me not offering to send her money that I avoid having to ever wonder if I have a woman who loves me for who I am or is she a woman that I bought and paid for?

well like i started,time frame is important ?
 i thought we were all talking about after engagement.
(maybe you are)

 If we are talking girlfriends , i would certainly agree about not supporting her in some lifestyle? you are looking for a wife, not a mistress or *kept " g/f.

if engaged and intending to marry..
and a man of any means, was to  sit back and watched as somone he cared about struggled to scrap buy,without even an offer to assist,, wether it is accepted or not,
 i would say shame on him. (but wish them both luck)

as far as buying a womans love,  Luckily I dont have to worry about such, I dont have enough to *buy* even the poorest village girls *true love* 
most certainly not if she has any character or convictions of her own..

[PeeWee]

it's nice to live in a black and white world..
and its good to see a man of conviction.

For myself, the more i see in the life,especially regarding human hardships,  the larger the gray areas become.What i once firmly believed to be b/w ,
changes with seeing situations that alter my perception of how things were, are, or should be.

Since you were stateing you had never sent any of the RW you were involved with money:

you avoided my questions of wether you were engaged to any of them -
what this post started about..
 or
 if they were struggling - my personal gray area.. *shrugs*

so no, i dont really know i thing about you Peewee.. LOL
and nothing pertinant to this thread..
and dont know if you such a strong man of your convictions,
 that if you were to by fate,
fall in love with a less well off RW, 
that after engagement, you would rather watch your intended wife truly struggle, rather than risk "buying " her love?

afterall by the time you are engaged , it would hopefully already be known that you care about and love each other,and why.
I wouldnt think couples at that point would be pondering the 'whys"
 they were involved with each other?
 
isnt that the crux of this whole matter?
if men KNEW for sure , they wouldnt sweat it?
so why propose, until sure its someone who shares your views on such important things as family finances?
hopefully you are asking somone to marry you, and share the rest of your lives together, that you can trust with such a simple thing as regular and exopected expences??

*buying* her love, would seem more of an issue during the meeting and dating period?

the thread starter was asking about engagement.. so all along that is where i was coming from.


well like i started,time frame is important ?
 i thought we were all talking about after engagement.
(maybe you are)

 If we are talking girlfriends , i would certainly agree about not supporting her in some lifestyle? you are looking for a wife, not a mistress or *kept " g/f.

if engaged and intending to marry..
and a man of any means, was to  sit back and watched as somone he cared about struggled to scrap buy,without even an offer to assist,, wether it is accepted or not,
 i would say shame on him. (but wish them both luck)

as far as buying a womans love,  Luckily I dont have to worry about such, I dont have enough to *buy* even the poorest village girls *true love* 
most certainly not if she has any character or convictions of her own..

What I realize about this, AJ, is that all of the women that I have been involved with were established in their careers. Two doctors, one flight attendant, one government admistrator. All of them had secure jobs, some had a car, one had two cars, one had two homes, one vacationed throughout Europe for 2 months every year. In otherwords they were all women with some means. But that was a part of my selection process. I did not write if I suspected that they might not be well established ladies. That is why I did not get involved with sending any of them money. I do believe, however, that even if I had been engaged to any of them I still would have not sent money. Unless it were a emergency.

I have several times asked the question about whether or not some of these ladies, knowing full well they are going to relocate, have not socked some cash away in expectation of the move. My friend Julia did that. She had enough money saved for both her and her son to live on for two years and to pay her tuition to get her Master's Degree at a Boston college. I cannot see any reason I would send any of the women that I had mention, money. Especially the one who had enough cash to live on in the US for two years.

The other thing I think about is how do I know for sure that the woman that I am dating or engaged to does not have a few other guys on the hook who are also sending her money? It happens as we have so painfully read. One of the women that I had been dating was doing just that and she was the one with two cars and a high income! Good that I did not send the money to her and it is not hard to realize why she had such a good income and had two cars either. Perhaps one of the dangers to dating a woman that has so little is the same danger as  dating one that has so much.

Peewee 

[Jumper]

My friend Julia did that. She had enough money saved for both her and her son to live on for two years and to pay her tuition to get her Master's Degree at a Boston college. I cannot see any reason I would send any of the women that I had mention, money. Especially the one who had enough cash to live on in the US for two years.

obviuosly.
i wouldnt either,, my point was ,
if you were indeed engaged ,and if she was struggling ,
would you sit by and watch?

because that is far more common than the scenerio you are coming across?
what you are describing  is not the average RW most guys will be engaged to ?
Most manage to survive,, or to do ok..?
but generally they cant fund relocation expenses!
(yes of course there are exceptions)
but most havnt the time or funds to have a good fluency in english..
(or italian, or german)
which is going to be fairly important in initial relocation troubles?

The other thing I think about is how do I know for sure that the woman that I am dating or engaged to does not have a few other guys on the hook who are also sending her money?

dating is one thing ,
engaged is entirely another..
hopefully you would know her , her family, and her situation well enough at the point of asking her to marry..
and trust her enough to not be that kind of person!!

IF you have been duped to the point you are engaged to a scammer..
then wether you send her money or not is hardly the pressing issue?

it seems a strange case to make for not sending money to your fiancee.. LOL
*umm well she MIGHT be a scammer..*

umm well if she is, and you asked her to marry you..
odds are things wont go well, and it will have very little to do with
if you do ,or dont, send money after engagement..

It happens as we have so painfully read. One of the women that I had been dating was doing just that and she was the one with two cars and a high income! Good that I did not send the money to her and it is not hard to realize why she had such a good income and had two cars either.

well you wernt engaged?
 just dating..
it takes all kinds in this world, odds are you would have spotted this in any woman before proposing?

Perhaps one of the dangers to dating a woman that has so little is the same danger as  dating one that has so much.

from your experience it certainly seems so?
by targeting *only* women of means, you run the risk of meeting successful scammers gifted at thier trade?
 but it would seem a very good idea on the surface..
and i still think it would generally be far less risky ,
and certainly not a bad plan.

its also *safer* to target  women who dont want to leave thier country..
but then that brings up another whole ball of wax doesnt it?

I still feel that  time is the best ally and friend.
in either case time will generally reveal the truth of the situations?
Things general come to the surface given a bit of time?

 I guess i was certainly assuming a man proposing, knows or at least thinks, and really BELIEVES, that his fiancee is of good character.
 Holding back after engagement , (of course within reason)
for fear of spoiling her, or her being a scammer,
 still smells of not really knowing or trusting her.. or her character.
To me thats odd for someone you have proposed to spend the rest of your days with.
and an odd justification for man to not help his fiancee ,
if she's in relative need
maybe SHE should be thinking *huge read flag* , *run forestkova run* 

[Zhena]

obviuosly.
i wouldnt either,, my point was ,
if you were indeed engaged ,and if she was struggling ,
would you sit by and watch?

Yes thats what I wonder about. Will you observe how she surviving? Wont you interfere?

Holding back after engagement , (of course within reason)
for fear of spoiling her, or her being a scammer,
 still smells of not really knowing or trusting her.. or her character.
To me thats odd for someone you have proposed to spend the rest of your days with.
and an odd justification for man to not help his fiancee ,
if she's in relative need
maybe SHE should be thinking *huge read flag* , *run forestkova run*  Grin

Excellent said...

[PeeWee]

Yes thats what I wonder about. Will you observe how she surviving? Wont you interfere?

Excellent said...

AJ and Fiancee, you both almost sound like this will be an eventuallity rather then an occasional occurance. I do not think anyone would not help but they way I hear it is that it almost always happens. I see so many posts where guys will admit to sending the money. Why? Have that many guys chosen that many destitute women that the money sending is almost a foregone conclusion?

I would think in the rare instance where she might need some financial help then that is warranted but I sense that most of these guys do it because either she really did need it, a rare occurance, or because the are men and because men like to help it empowers them when the send the money, or she is flat out scamming him, or he is try to impress her. Any other reasons for him to send money? I'd surmise that if we eliminate the occasional real need reason then all else that remains falls into my premise that "If she has made it to this point in life without your financial help then why does she need it now...and from  you?'

Peewee

[Muj]

Ok Shadow, my confusion.

Pee Wee, basically a matter of trust.  You have to go with your comfort level.  Of course if you think every woman is a scammer then your loss.  Some cynical women think every man is a player.

[Jumper]

I would think in the rare instance where she might need some financial help

peewee-
You are either the luckiest man to ever date RW and dated only ogilarchs ex's ..or you havnt dated many RW.

your Russian lady friend that had 2 years US salary saved up to relocate for example..

Peewee, stop and think about it.with some reality mixed in ok?

how many US citizens have jobs they can afford to put aside 2 years salary for relocation to anywhere?? what % of the population can do this?

and if they could, why would they want to relocate?
 obviuosly thier career is pretty good for them,
 right where they are??

now lets say this RW was from Moscow, where salaries are far far better than anywhere else in the FSU.. still they seldom match US salaries.
but ok ,some do match in top corprations and postitions.
but Moscow is also one of the most expensive cities to live in the world..
and how many, even with matching US salary structure can SAVE an additional two years salary?


you truly found a needle in the haystack,
or she had other means of income you probably dont want to delve into.
thats the reality.

Most RUSSIAN men wont be marrying Moscovitchkas with 2 years US salary saved up.
much fewer western men will find this anomoly!

The normal guy will be marrying an average salary woman.. the statistical odds are overwhelming,.

I would hope on your trips you saw the average salary and lifestyle..
people get by, but it is indeed difficult.

this whole Western man /RW situation would not even exist with out the economic inbalance? right?
if MOST RW could save up even 1 years US salary ,
then they wouldnt be listed with a marriage agency for a foriegn man...
yes most list for economic reasons..thats the truth..

you are big on googling..google the average salary in Russia or Ukraine,
and remember that it drops substantially outside the capitol cities of Moscow and Kiev..


sorry but yes, it is a forgione conclusion, that in the average case,,
a man engaed to an average salaried  RW,
that it will be an incerdible financial hardshiop for her to afford the added expensies and time off of work, for  travel to kiew, warsaw etc for visa purposes,  for english lessons , or driving lessons,
ANY additional expence will be a hardship as her salary is strecthed to the maximun already.

you can let her fumble thru it, and not come here(USA) as prepared as she could be, because she couldnt afford the time off to study english etc..
and you were afraid she might scam you or not study..

or you can man up, stop worrying about being hurt or scammed
and recognize you ALREADY asked this woman to marry
you,
 and recognize that it wouldnt be a rare occurance in her country to need financial assistence to make these visa plans, and be better prepared to adjust to life here.

if you know your case to be different,, and if you proposed you SHOULD know? then of course act accordingly..

My wife worked thru our engagement period, but after marriage,
(she was still living in Ukraine for about one year)
She got fired when her boss realized she would be leaving anyway..

now peewee that is far more common ,,
a far far more common occurance,,
than a RW having enough money saved up to relocate.


These are some very basics of dating a RW..
you guys need to get out more.lol

[Zhena]

Yes,a life is unpredictable and today you can have a well-paid job,and tomorrow you can loose it only because of a companys existing end.
Also,guys,I will tell a thing many of you wont like(prepared for tomatoes-need some to make a salad). Many girls know that you wont like her money asking or hinting,so they dont. But they would need it,if really. A girl may be very modest until she becomes a wife. Then you will find out an another side of her and will be disappointed. I dont believe any normal woman like a situation when she cant buy anything extra(of course,not extremely expensive things),something she likes very much. All women need this,believe me.So maybe she will be quite and patient a first time,but then her irritation by your attitude may cause the problems.

[BC]

Fiancee,

Yeah being a 'scrooge' seems to be much worse than hanging noodles.. 

[catzenmouse]

 Excellent post AJ. Does seem to be a lot of twists and turns here. Might also be a turnip truck parked in the middle of the road around the next bend....

 Ken (off to see if the noodles are soft enough to hang yet)

[BC]

Ken (off to see if the noodles are soft enough to hang yet)

'al dente' please..

[Goldtop]

My wife had a good job in St Petersburg. So she never needed or asked for any financial help. Of course I paid for everything during my three visits. But she bought her own airline ticket to the US and brought a sizeable amount of money with her. 

[docetae]

I help the woman I'm dating only for all fees she would not have if we were not corresponding and traveling together.
This is not a strict rule : She stays during one month without a job and I helped her during this time. We have talken a lot about money and difference of revenues and she told me she does not want I help her. She is very proud regarding her ability to provide everything to her and her son alone and does not want to feel assisted.

But at the end, when I feel she is really struggling, I prefer to send her some money( 200 or 300$ max). I told her this is not pity or compassion, just the fact that I want no material factors that will make her worried.

[PeeWee]

My wife had a good job in St Petersburg. So she never needed or asked for any financial help. Of course I paid for everything during my three visits. But she bought her own airline ticket to the US and brought a sizeable amount of money with her. 

That is much like I was saying. One can find the ones that are not so desperate and in need of money. I agree that the extra expenses such as driving lessons, visa, and travel expenses. But not certainly day to day living expenses. Like I said, how was she living before you came along and if nothing else changes after you meet her then why are you suddenly compelled to send money.

I had understood, and correct me if I am wrong, that the tradtion of engagement is a Western idea and not an Eastern one. It does not seem like a necessary step in the progression of the relationship if the engagement is not a part of her culture.

PeeWee

[Shadow]

But at the end, when I feel she is really struggling, I prefer to send her some money( 200 or 300$ max). I told her this is not pity or compassion, just the fact that I want no material factors that will make her worried.

While this is coming from your basic feelings, make sure that she is not going to depend on your money. Watch for signs that may indicate she is extending the time until a final decision is made. Money can make it difficult for a woman to tell you she changed her mind.

[PeeWee]

While this is coming from your basic feelings, make sure that she is not going to depend on your money. Watch for signs that may indicate she is extending the time until a final decision is made. Money can make it difficult for a woman to tell you she changed her mind.

Good point, Shadow Man. You might even be setting your self up for a con that would not have been there had you not stopped your self styled foreign aid program when it came time to wean her from cash cow's teat. So what did you set up this program to begin with? She was struggling. That's right and I would feel compeled to do the same but like those US citizens who have chosen the Welfare apple and unemployement, sometimes the insentive to regain employment is lost because the idea of free money overpowers one desire to work for it.

Peewee

[Jet]

Completely OFF-TOPIC but...

but like those US citizens who have chosen the Welfare apple and unemployement, sometimes the insentive to regain employment is lost because the idea of free money overpowers one desire to work for it.

Me thinks you need to look into the welfare system a little more closely, because it ain't even close to the situation described further down the thread. In most states the welfare system is structured that even if one WANTED to get "off", in most cases it's virtually impossible, due to the fact that there is no grace period to allow one to get on their feet and have an actual shot at "making it" on their own.

[curmudgeon]

If a woman is successful in the business,this means she has some points in her character which makes her a leader. Otherwise she wont survive in a business world. I dont believe she changes radically when she comes from her work at home. Also I dont believe she will be a good mother-no time for such things. She is not soft exactly,life taught her to be strong and tough. And now lets see what happens when a leader-man becoming to live with a such kind of woman?

Great. More ridiculous generalizations. Why will someone with business experience not make a good mother?

I have no comment on what other people do or have done (or believe), but I will answer the question for myself.

My wife had a good job. She had started taking English lessons a few months before I started writing, and continued them during that time. She paid for all of her own internet access (we just found all of the used up internet cards - about 8000 rubles worth). She had enough money to give her mother a hundred dollars every month (which she still does).

I never sent her any money for expenses. In fact, I kept "borrowing" money from her every time I visited, as she bought all of the Russian domestic airline and train tickets in advance (I reimbursed her for those, and paid for all expenses during my visits). I just asked "do you have enough money to buy those tickets, or do you need me to send some?" and she answered that she had enough (same thing when she bought the ticket to come to the United States), so I accepted that and didn't think any more about it.

[PeeWee]

Completely OFF-TOPIC but...Me thinks you need to look into the welfare system a little more closely, because it ain't even close to the situation described further down the thread. In most states the welfare system is structured that even if one WANTED to get "off", in most cases it's virtually impossible, due to the fact that there is no grace period to allow one to get on their feet and have an actual shot at "making it" on their own.

It's a screwed up system. My point is that if you begin giving anyone money what is their insentive to stop taking it? Be they a welfare recipient or your FSU lady.

Peewee

[PeeWee]

Great. More ridiculous generalizations. Why will someone with business experience not make a good mother?

I have no comment on what other people do or have done (or believe), but I will answer the question for myself.

My wife had a good job. She had started taking English lessons a few months before I started writing, and continued them during that time. She paid for all of her own internet access (we just found all of the used up internet cards - about 8000 rubles worth). She had enough money to give her mother a hundred dollars every month (which she still does).

I never sent her any money for expenses. In fact, I kept "borrowing" money from her every time I visited, as she bought all of the Russian domestic airline and train tickets in advance (I reimbursed her for those, and paid for all expenses during my visits). I just asked "do you have enough money to buy those tickets, or do you need me to send some?" and she answered that she had enough (same thing when she bought the ticket to come to the United States), so I accepted that and didn't think any more about it.

Someone with business experience can and will make a good mother. Someone who is currently a businesswoman can't make a good mother. This because she has chosen to devote 40 to 50 hours of each of her weeks to be pursue her career and not mother her childern. She has shorted each child on the average of 2,100 hours each year of her much needed mothering. While she might be a good mother when she is a mother what she really is is a parttime mother at best.

Peewee

[Jumper]

Good point, Shadow Man. You might even be setting your self up for a con that would not have been there had you not stopped your self styled foreign aid program when it came time to wean her from cash cow's teat. So what did you set up this program to begin with? She was struggling. That's right and I would feel compeled to do the same but like those US citizens who have chosen the Welfare apple and unemployement, sometimes the insentive to regain employment is lost because the idea of free money overpowers one desire to work for it.

I do think Shadow has a good point.
However you can extrapulate that to any situation , any where?

Peewee- you are talking about the possibilty. of creating a situation of needing to ween a spouse off the *cash cows* teat?
or compare it to being trapped in the weldfare system..
common man..lol

I dont know about you , but in my experience,
 i know a large percentage of women in marriages they would NOT
stay in, if  not for the financial security..

I would say a decent percentage of American women remain married because of , fear of the unknown out on thier own,, or they perceived difficuloty of doing so,... or the fear of leaving a "comfort zone" ..
They just dont have the confidence to leave , or they would.

(yes many AW , love thier husbands, and are happily married)

but this other situation exists, and often..
i see it every day.dont you?
I will be at someones house today in EXACTLY that situation,
They were once very much in love,,
but now its a grey marriage neither really enjoys any longer,, plus he is a bit abusive.. (yes physically )
but she stays for fear of going it alone financially.(and perhaps emotionally) He is fairly well off..

isnt that the same thing you are worried about?
you REALLY think you will avoid it by wether you do or dont help a RW fiancee out before her arrival ?

lets say you dont help her at all, she had a GREAT job in Russia,
dint need a thing from you.
awesome.

once here, is she going to jump back in that great job? maybe yes maybe no.
 
in any case long term realistically in your life is she going to be the breadwinner in the family?
lets say in the first 4  years of marriage -
are you telling me she  wont be financially dependent on you in some significant way ?
are not most wives? regardless of nationality?

( yes ,i know thousands of exceptions ! but whats the GENERALITY as thats all a forum can hope to address)

In light of the fact she will *generally*  be financially dependent on her husband within thier marriage..
 to extrapulate wether to help or not a woman you plan to marry,
 off of the fear you will make her somehow finacially dependent,  is a bit odd?

I just dont get it.. this logic.. lol

if you plan to marry a woman who is better off than you,, or can carry the finances just fine,, thats ok too?
and yea it happens ! but its not the RW guys will meet in general

i DO understand the cases where the woman has a great job and doesnt need any assistence.
as i said when marrying someone, surely you should know if she does or does not need such assistance , and for what.  
 

as far as targeting better off, "less desparate women"
sure good plan.
in my case i married a RW that did not want to relocate at all.

you could always target wealthy Moscavitchkas ,
that dont want to leave Moscow, to increase your realitive safety or alleave your worry of being conned or used fiancially ?
but generally, youll have to expand your search far beyond the way most
couples meet

This whole businesss and situation  of WM/RW would not exist with out the economic desparity between the culture in the average case.
Why ignore that, within the context of the original question?

it wasnt asking should you help your fiancee in LA ,or Houston,  thats your economic equal..or at least in decent finacial shape?

  

[PeeWee]

I do think Shadow has a good point.
However you can extrapulate that to any situation , any where?

Peewee- you are talking about the possibilty. of creating a situation of needing to ween a spouse off the *cash cows* teat?
or compare it to being trapped in the weldfare system..
common man..lol

I dont know about you , but in my experience,
 i know a large percentage of women in marriages they would NOT
stay in, if  not for the financial security..

I would say a decent percentage of American women remain married because of , fear of the unknown out on thier own,, or they perceived difficuloty of doing so,... or the fear of leaving a "comfort zone" ..
They just dont have the confidence to leave , or they would.

(yes many AW , love thier husbands, and are happily married)

but this other situation exists, and often..
i see it every day.dont you?
I will be at someones house today in EXACTLY that situation,
They were once very much in love,,
but now its a grey marriage neither really enjoys any longer,, plus he is a bit abusive.. (yes physically )
but she stays for fear of going it alone financially.(and perhaps emotionally) He is fairly well off..

isnt that the same thing you are worried about?
you REALLY think you will avoid it by wether you do or dont help a RW fiancee out before her arrival ?

lets say you dont help her at all, she had a GREAT job in Russia,
dint need a thing from you.
awesome.

once here, is she going to jump back in that great job? maybe yes maybe no.
 
in any case long term realistically in your life is she going to be the breadwinner in the family?
lets say in the first 4  years of marriage -
are you telling me she  wont be financially dependent on you in some significant way ?
are not most wives? regardless of nationality?

( yes ,i know thousands of exceptions ! but whats the GENERALITY as thats all a forum can hope to address)

In light of the fact she will *generally*  be financially dependent on her husband within thier marriage..
 to extrapulate wether to help or not a woman you plan to marry,
 off of the fear you will make her somehow finacially dependent,  is a bit odd?

I just dont get it.. this logic.. lol

if you plan to marry a woman who is better off than you,, or can carry the finances just fine,, thats ok too?
and yea it happens ! but its not the RW guys will meet in general

i DO understand the cases where the woman has a great job and doesnt need any assistence.
as i said when marrying someone, surely you should know if she does or does not need such assistance , and for what.  
 

as far as targeting better off, "less desparate women"
sure good plan.
in my case i married a RW that did not want to relocate at all.

you could always target wealthy Moscavitchkas ,
that dont want to leave Moscow, to increase your realitive safety or alleave your worry of being conned or used fiancially ?
but generally, youll have to expand your search far beyond the way most
couples meet

This whole businesss and situation  of WM/RW would not exist with out the economic desparity between the culture in the average case.
Why ignore that, within the context of the original question?

it wasnt asking should you help your fiancee in LA ,or Houston,  thats your economic equal..or at least in decent finacial shape?

  

True, women are by in large insecure creatures. I often tell little peewee that when it comes to security women are like monkeys. They have to know that they have a firm grap on one branch with one hand before they feel safe to let loose with the other. Men, on the other hand are leapers. They feel confident in letting go with one hand inorder to leep further and with more daring to graps the next branch.


I think way back to the original question was do we send money for financial help. Some do whether she needs it or not, some don't unless there is a crisis. Questions posed were; why send unless you have to? and When do you turn off the financial aid fawcett?

Peewee
Peewee

[docetae]

During our few days together, she makes it clear that she does not want to have help. Before sending money to her, I told her that I do not expect nothing back and this happen two times only (for her passport and to help her the month she was without a job).

Why I do that ? If she is really struggling and honest (I get some good signs that was true when I was in Ukraine with her) , what I believe, I don't want her to be totally exhausted by work hours  when we will be in vacation together. I don't want her to worry how she will do to pay her flat when she will be back to Ukraine. We will have 10 days together and each one needs to be available for the other one if we want to be able to know if there is something after our first impressions.

And in the worst case, if she is not honest, this is just a part of the story and I will learn from that. Season 2006 will be closed, I will take the time to learn russian better and will resume search activities in 2007. I'm not looking desesperately to find someone, I want to find the right one. I have my budget and will not spend more than planned.

[Wild Orchid*]

I agree that the extra expenses such as driving lessons, visa, and travel expenses. But not certainly day to day living expenses. Like I said, how was she living before you came along and if nothing else changes after you meet her then why are you suddenly compelled to send money.

PeeWee

I was asking the same question time after time, but nobody wants to answer.
I do understand DonaZ case, who spent a lot of time with his girlfriend and asked her to quit, because he wanted her to be with him bot working somewhere for peanuts.... But this sort of situation doesn't hapen too often. Why does she have to quit her job months and months before her departure to prepare herself for trip to another country? Pteparing how? Doing what?

[Mamma D]

I will tell you how one man did it....

He wrote many emails to several women... then he visited. After the first visit he paid for her emails...

One lady stole his heart and after 3-4 more visits he asked her to marry him, and her sons opinion and position...(Basil says he fell in love with his dad first).He left an old lap top and had it connected to the internet...She had a telephone.

From that day .... Dick supported his new family, and asked her to stop work and prepare to come here. After months of frustration, and several more visits ... he was in Moscow for the interview and brought our new family home. They were married on Valentines day 2000.

At our first Thanksgiving family dinner, Basil said he was most Thankful for his dad ( he had never had one) and to be in America.

We expect to see this boy into MIT or at the least one of the Ivy League schools. He is awesome!

Both are now American citizens and Basil will not travel to Russia until he is 25 years old. His grandmother that co-raised him will come here.

NOW.. Dick had to attend business meeting 4 times a year in Denmark and the side trip was doable.
His position was that how would he answer if she someday ask... why he Had let them struggle, when he didn't need to.

And yes, they contribute to Svetas income....How could he not?