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Author Topic: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right  (Read 6069 times)

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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2019, 10:26:42 AM »
If you change the words plunder and extortion with the word Taxes
then it sound pretty lefty to me.

And if  you leave it as is, it sounds pretty right wing to me.

Quote
Yet the Chinese have done EXACTLY that, 

They have converted from communism/socialism one step to
the right to fascism. Deng Xiaoping 101

No, they haven't.  The Chinese were truer to Marxism than the Soviets in, for example, allowing private farms when they realized collective farms did not work.  That was under Mao, not Deng.

China is still socialist today, not fascist. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.


« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 10:41:03 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2019, 10:34:14 AM »
Sandro,

The last thing I would do is to ask you to do a lot of needless work just for the sake of arguing a point with me. You might have a point that Italy wasn't AS fascist as say Germany was under Hitler or China is becoming today.

Everything Germany ever did under Hitler is readily available in English and he did EVERYTHING to take his country one step to the right of Socialism. He did take over industries and he did tell others what to build and dictated most everything.

Fascism is to the right of Socialism and communism but not that much.

First, I doubt everything Hitler did is printed in English. 

Second, Nazi economic policies were all over the map.  They rejected capitalism because it was controlled by "Jewish bankers".  However, you are mistaken about Nazi Germany taking over all industry.  They didn't. 

I think economically, Nazi Germany's policies can be defined as "economic nationalism".  That really is one of the keys to fascism - nationalism - it is a core to the ideology, whereas it is anathema to communism.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 10:41:25 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #27 on: June 26, 2019, 04:35:28 AM »
And if  you leave it as is, it sounds pretty right wing to me.

Nope, crony capitalism is a left wing Democrat type thing.
The Democrats politicians want control and a little payola
and they are happy.



No, they haven't.  The Chinese were truer to Marxism than the Soviets in, for example, allowing private farms when they realized collective farms did not work.  That was under Mao, not Deng.

China is still socialist today, not fascist. 

China allows different private companies manufacture and sell things
and not owning the means of production, they just control who does
what. Huawei Technologies is privately owned, they develop their own technologies.

In China they have privately owned supermarkets not government
owned stores. They are the very definition of fascism.

I know you don't want to admit it but it's true.


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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #28 on: June 26, 2019, 08:53:37 AM »
Nope, crony capitalism is a left wing Democrat type thing.
The Democrats politicians want control and a little payola and they are happy.


Which doesn't negate my original point.


BTW, "crony capitalism" didn't exist at the time of Attila.

Quote
China allows different private companies manufacture and sell things and not owning the means of production, they just control who does what. Huawei Technologies is privately owned, they develop their own technologies.

No, they don't.  Huawei is owned by its workers.  That is within the parameters of Marxist thought.
Quote
In China they have privately owned supermarkets not government owned stores. They are the very definition of fascism.

LOL.  I think you're confused.

Marxism allows private ownership.  But that ownership cannot be exploitative, i.e., it can't make profit on the backs of underpaid workers.

I believe China allows what would be labelled "exploitation" in its special economic zones.  However, those industries, when they reach a certain level of success, cannot be privately owned.  Furthermore, if an individual is too successful, his wealth is open to confiscation.  This is why so many Chinese purchase homes in the West, and try to move their money outside the country.

Quote
I know you don't want to admit it but it's true.

Your truth, seen through the prism of your political biases.  It's not an objective truth.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2019, 09:35:11 AM »
Which doesn't negate my original point.

Sure it does



No, they don't.  Huawei is owned by its workers.  That is within the parameters of Marxist thought.

Using Huawei as an example was a mistake on my part. They are controlled
by the Chinese State and they lie and say that it's owned by the workers
when it's not true. Workers aren't allowed to buy or sell their shares.

I was wrong, I thought that Huawei was privately owned. I was correct that
they allow individuals to own factories, and the means of production. That
is inherently anti Marxist and it is totally fascist in how they do it.

http://www.itnews.com.au/news/analysis-who-really-owns-huawei-175946


Marxism allows private ownership.  But that ownership cannot be exploitative, i.e., it can't make profit on the backs of underpaid workers.

I would be happy to quote Karl Marx for you.

"The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

KARL MARX, The Communist Manifesto

« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 09:37:38 AM by 2tallbill »
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Offline mhr7

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #30 on: June 26, 2019, 10:02:01 AM »
"The theory of the Communists may be summed up in the single sentence: Abolition of private property."

KARL MARX, The Communist Manifesto



China isn't communist they're socialist and use a socialist market economy. They allow for for private ownership but the government takes any residual profits. Most western experts, from what I've seen, consider China a capitalist country but China denies this.

You need ultranationalism for fascism to exist and China lacks this.
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #31 on: June 26, 2019, 10:05:29 AM »
First, I doubt everything Hitler did is printed in English. 

Second, Nazi economic policies were all over the map.  They rejected capitalism because it was controlled by "Jewish bankers".  However, you are mistaken about Nazi Germany taking over all industry.  They didn't. 

I think economically, Nazi Germany's policies can be defined as "economic nationalism".  That really is one of the keys to fascism - nationalism - it is a core to the ideology, whereas it is anathema to communism.


First, there are adequate history books and texts in English of Hitlers
writings, beliefs and history as to not require any translation for the
sake of arguments here on RWD.

Second, I never said that Hitler took over all industries because he
didn't. I didn't say that Hitler took over most industries either because
he didn't I said that they took over industries because they did. They
also formed a few state-run firms either and example would be the 
Reichswerke Hermann Göring which was founded in 1937 for the
exploitation of the German iron ore deposits.

The Nazi's also set wages and prices, which is a totally lefty thing.

This is from an economic study by The Yale Economic Department.

"The Nazi regime did not have any scruples to apply force and terror, if that was judged useful to attain its aims. And in economic policy it did not abstain from numerous regulations and interventions in markets, in order to further rearmament and autarky as far as possible. Thus the regime, by promulgating Schacht’s so-called “New Plan” in 1934, very much strengthened its influence on foreign exchange as well as on raw materials’ allocation, in order to enforce state priorities. Wage-setting became a task of public officials, the capital market was reserved for state demand, a general price stop decreed in 1936.1 In addition state demand expanded without precedent. Between 1932 and 1938 it increased with an average annual rate of 26 per cent; its share in GNP exploded in these years from 13.6 to 30.5 per cent.2 As a consequence private consumption as well as exports were largely crowded out. 

http://economics.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Workshops-Seminars/Economic-History/buchheim-041020.pdf

There are countless economic studies that show the parallels
between Socialism and fascism and I know where to find them. 

Quote from Hitler

Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that

"we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic
system",[16] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of
socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that
"Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."
 
http://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany.html


I can do this all day, (actually I can't I need to go to work right now).
I know you don't want this to be true, but it is and it's provable.


Udachi!

Bill
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #32 on: June 26, 2019, 10:09:04 AM »
China isn't communist they're socialist and use a socialist market economy. They allow for for private ownership but the government takes any residual profits. Most western experts, from what I've seen, consider China a capitalist country but China denies this.

China allows for private ownership of the means of production. They are fascists


You need ultranationalism for fascism to exist and China lacks this.

No, you don't. 

China is fairly nationalist and they have patriotic and national songs
and themes, they have a social reward system for exactly that which
measures every single Chinese private life.

I'll get back to this soon, I have to run.

We should put this into a new thread.
 
« Last Edit: June 26, 2019, 10:14:05 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline mhr7

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #33 on: June 26, 2019, 10:38:02 AM »
China allows for private ownership of the means of production. They are fascists

If this is the case then the US is also fascist.
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #34 on: June 26, 2019, 11:54:55 AM »
First, there are adequate history books and texts in English of Hitlers writings, beliefs and history as to not require any translation for the sake of arguments here on RWD.

Second, I never said that Hitler took over all industries because he didn't. I didn't say that Hitler took over most industries either because he didn't I said that they took over industries because they did. They also formed a few state-run firms either and example would be the Reichswerke Hermann Göring which was founded in 1937 for the exploitation of the German iron ore deposits.


But they didn't do so for ideological reasons.

Quote
The Nazi's also set wages and prices, which is a totally lefty thing.


Hmm.  Sol Theodore Roosevelt and Richard Nixon were "lefties"?
Quote
This is from an economic study by The Yale Economic Department.

"The Nazi regime did not have any scruples to apply force and terror, if that was judged useful to attain its aims. And in economic policy it did not abstain from numerous regulations and interventions in markets, in order to further rearmament and autarky as far as possible. Thus the regime, by promulgating Schacht’s so-called “New Plan” in 1934, very much strengthened its influence on foreign exchange as well as on raw materials’ allocation, in order to enforce state priorities. Wage-setting became a task of public officials, the capital market was reserved for state demand, a general price stop decreed in 1936.1 In addition state demand expanded without precedent. Between 1932 and 1938 it increased with an average annual rate of 26 per cent; its share in GNP exploded in these years from 13.6 to 30.5 per cent.2 As a consequence private consumption as well as exports were largely crowded out. 

http://economics.yale.edu/sites/default/files/files/Workshops-Seminars/Economic-History/buchheim-041020.pdf

There are countless economic studies that show the parallels between Socialism and fascism and I know where to find them.


Quote from Hitler

Hitler's views on economics, beyond his early belief that the economy was of secondary importance, are a matter of debate. On the one hand, he proclaimed in one of his speeches that

"we are socialists, we are enemies of today's capitalistic economic system",[16] but he was clear to point out that his interpretation of socialism "has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism," saying that "Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not."
 
http://ipfs.io/ipfs/QmXoypizjW3WknFiJnKLwHCnL72vedxjQkDDP1mXWo6uco/wiki/Economy_of_Nazi_Germany.html

I can do this all day, (actually I can't I need to go to work right now).


The "right" generally has no issue with inequalities in wealth, status, and privilege.  The "left" does.  The Nazis had no issue with the former.


Quote
I know you don't want this to be true, but it is and it's provable.


You assume too much.  If the Nazis were, objectively, socialists, I would have no issue with that.  As you know, I am not a believer in communism.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #35 on: June 26, 2019, 12:26:32 PM »
China allows for private ownership of the means of production. They are fascists


Socialism allows for private ownership of the means of production.  Even Marxism does, however, Marxists only allow private ownership by groups - trade unions, cooperatives, etc.  This is what China is doing today.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2019, 11:26:00 AM »
If this is the case then the US is also fascist.

Partially as the US Government heavily regulates all sorts of industries
but nothing like the the Nazi's or the Socialists or the Commies because
they are further to the left.

Tell me which of the two main parties in the USA wish to regulate industries,
businesses and outcomes more?

Fascism is a far left wing. I realize that it's embarrassing to admit after arguing
that it's not, but it is. It's the lefts big lie right after racists are on the right,
when it was them who were the original racists.   

Left is more government control: Totalitarian communists at the furthest
left. Right is for less control: Anarchy being the furthest to the right.

Nothing is right wing about Nazism or fascism, nothing. All their founding
concepts came from blending socialism with something they thought was
more workable.

 
« Last Edit: June 29, 2019, 11:30:11 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline mhr7

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2019, 05:02:20 PM »
Partially as the US Government heavily regulates all sorts of industries
but nothing like the the Nazi's or the Socialists or the Commies because
they are further to the left.

Tell me which of the two main parties in the USA wish to regulate industries,
businesses and outcomes more?

Fascism is a far left wing. I realize that it's embarrassing to admit after arguing
that it's not, but it is. It's the lefts big lie right after racists are on the right,
when it was them who were the original racists.   

Left is more government control: Totalitarian communists at the furthest
left. Right is for less control: Anarchy being the furthest to the right.

Nothing is right wing about Nazism or fascism, nothing. All their founding
concepts came from blending socialism with something they thought was
more workable.

Nazism is more than economics, it is ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, fascist and anti-egalitarian. All right wing.
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2019, 11:24:38 AM »
Nazism is more than economics, it is ultra-nationalist, socially conservative, fascist and anti-egalitarian. All right wing.

You are repeating yourself. NONE of those things are right wing.

The USSR was ultra nationalist, they had military parades with their tanks
and missiles (sorta like Hitler did with his goose stepping armies). They had
the "GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR" they had years and years and years of war
hero patriotic movies. They were socially conservative.

The Soviet Union had some official even announce that they didn't have sex
in Russia! Is that socially conservative enough for you?

They were all about the Olympics. They juiced up their athletes to win
various competitions. They were ultra nationalists. So are and were the
Chinese.

Anti-egalitarian: contrary to principles of social equality and fairness

Do you think that the show trials of the Soviet Union were about equality
and fairness? How about the Gulags for saying the wrong thing?

The Left wing is about the State and control of the people by the State
and the good of the state. That describes the Commies, the Nazi's the
socialists and the far out wacko Democrats. Far out right wing are
the anarchists wanting no laws or government.

I know that you want to deny this but that's the facts.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 11:27:18 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #39 on: June 30, 2019, 11:59:44 AM »
The USSR was ultra nationalist, they had military parades with their tanks and missiles (sorta like Hitler did with his goose stepping armies). They had the "GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR" they had years and years and years of war hero patriotic movies. They were socially conservative.
WRONG!!!

Nationalists were routinely arrested and thrown in gulags.  There was a provision in the Soviet Criminal Code about nationalism.  Whole tomes were written, up to the late 1980's, about "bourgeois nationalism", and to be accused of being a "bourgeois nationalist" was indeed a serious accusation.  You can research every republic, and you will find lists of individuals who were sentenced to gulags, usually for between 10 and 25 years, for expressing nationalist sentiment.  I can name the majority of those either executed, or sentenced, in Ukraine for "bourgeois nationalism", not so much the other republics, but I do know that the Soviet system was the same in this regard, regardless of republic.  Ukrainian nationalists were the first in the USSR to be arrested and executed.  The better half's paternal family all could speak Ukrainian fluently, but never did publicly, for fear of being labelled nationalists, which, as I noted, was a crime in the USSR.  When we married, the better half was called to a meeting at work, where everyone at his workplace was present, and where he was denounced as a "bourgeois nationalist" - and this was during so called "glasnost'".

The Soviets stated the proletariat doesn't need nationalism.  Nationalism was created by the bourgeoisie to divide the proletariat.  Have you ever heard the slogan, "proletariat of the world, unite!"  If you'd visited the USSR, you'd see posters with this slogan all over.  It was on Soviet money.  There was never a "Soviet" nationality.

The parades were about the proletariat, not nationalism or national identity.  As I have posted in the past, because no one wanted to fight for the USSR in WWII, Stalin brought back Tsar trained generals, and was advised by them to release priests from jail, open churches, and appeal to save "Mother Russia", not the Soviet Union.  Winning in sports was about the superiority of the socialist system over the rotten bourgeoisie, not national identity or sentiment. 

The suppression of nationalism is exactly why there were skirmishes (and still are) in former Soviet lands.  The peoples of the USSR never had a chance to work out nationalism, the way Western Europeans did in the aftermath of WWII.

As for conservatism, how many conservatives destroy the places of worship of the majority of the population, and ensure for those few places of worship remaining, that anyone attending will never succeed in their work life?  In how many conservative countries are those worshipping on the holiest day of the religious year rounded up and driven 20 km from the city, forced to walk back, or find rides along the way back, solely because they dared to worship? How many conservatives allow abortion on demand at any stage of a pregnancy?  In what conservative countries can you go to a district in a city to find any sort of sexual deviancy you desire, free, for a night, or a week?  In what conservative countries can workers show up so drunk they pass out curled around a toilet?  In what conservative countries would people be lined up in front of a store in the morning, cursing the women who work there to open it, so that they can buy cheap alcohol?

I come from a relatively conservative part of Canada.  The things I saw in the USSR as a young woman were shocking to me.  The better half's grandmother, who attended the Smolny Institute, and never adjusted to the degeneracy of the USSR, approved of me when she met me precisely because I was unlike Soviet Ukrainian girls - I didn't smoke, didn't drink, did not dress provocatively, I wasn't painted like a doll (though I do wear make up).

No, the USSR was never either nationalist or conservative.  It was exactly what it stated it was - a proletarian dictatorship. 

Quote
The Soviet Union had some official even announce that they didn't have sex in Russia! Is that socially conservative enough for you?
That was during a telemost, and the woman who made that pronouncement meant pornography, though her wording was bad.  Even the Russian audience laughed.The Soviets stated pornography was created by the Western bourgeoisie.  The reason for its creation, according to the Soviets, was to appeal to the lowest of human instincts, in order to distract the international proletariat from the vital fight against the bourgeoisie. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 02:26:52 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline mhr7

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2019, 12:04:26 PM »
You are repeating yourself. NONE of those things are right wing.

The USSR was ultra nationalist, they had military parades with their tanks
and missiles (sorta like Hitler did with his goose stepping armies). They had
the "GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR" they had years and years and years of war
hero patriotic movies. They were socially conservative.

The Soviet Union had some official even announce that they didn't have sex
in Russia! Is that socially conservative enough for you?

They were all about the Olympics. They juiced up their athletes to win
various competitions. They were ultra nationalists. So are and were the
Chinese.

Anti-egalitarian: contrary to principles of social equality and fairness

Do you think that the show trials of the Soviet Union were about equality
and fairness? How about the Gulags for saying the wrong thing?

The Left wing is about the State and control of the people by the State
and the good of the state. That describes the Commies, the Nazi's the
socialists and the far out wacko Democrats. Far out right wing are
the anarchists wanting no laws or government.

I know that you want to deny this but that's the facts.

You're selling out the truth to protect the right wing. The Soviets were ultra nationalists?  :wallbash:
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #41 on: June 30, 2019, 12:17:44 PM »
Now to fascism - socialism, and communism, in theory, look to equalize individuals, the first being economic equality, and most "leftist" ideologies support such values, not only economically, but social and political equality, although even Marx did not call for this result.  Fascism does not call for equality in any way whatsoever.

If you look at the rise of fascism, you will see that where it occurred, it was a reaction against the communists.  Fascist leaders were supported by industrialists who feared a communist revolution.  Once fascists gained power, one of the first things they did was sell off state industries to private industry.  They encouraged private ownership, big business, and profit.  However, all industry had to serve the national interest, i.e., the state.  Trade unions, a stalwart of socialist states, were smashed by fascists, and replaced with state unions that served major business owners.  These things hardly sound "left" to me.


This post was composed without the aid of google.



After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Online krimster2

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #42 on: June 30, 2019, 04:21:15 PM »
Russians of all “flavors” love their rodina
fields of grain for wild horses to run
polushka pole

Sovietska nationalizma eta horrosho
Ukrainia nationalizma eta plohoi
because the state won’t benefit
and that’s what patriotism is all about
quo bono?
always ask this question...

Russian kino is an endless loop
of great patriotic war nostalgie
to remind the masses
that their suffering could be worse
and it’s proud Russia standing up to the outside world
on to victory tovarische with our great leader!

create the illusion,
that the present
is a reflection of the past...

this is all the Russian political elites gotta do to fool Russians!
In America, it’s race...
pit one race against the other...

divide and conquer
is the oldest political strategy in the books

BO,
question for you!

when you were living in the good ole CCCP
did you have a job?

could someone ever level the accusation against you
that you were someone who "aided and abetted" the Soviet Union
a country that was in ideological and military opposition to the whole western world
a country who was considered to be an enemy of your own country at the time...
by helping the Soviet Union, did you end up hurting Canada and other Western democracies by some measure

I'm not suggesting that you worked as a technician in a nuclear warhead assembly facility
but did you have a job that would be considered supporting the Soviet Union?









« Last Edit: June 30, 2019, 04:28:52 PM by krimster2 »

Online 2tallbill

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #43 on: June 30, 2019, 05:25:20 PM »
But they didn't do so for ideological reasons.

"Hitler's second volume, entitled Die Nationalsozialistische Bewegung
(“The National Socialist Movement”), written after Hitler’s release from
prison in December 1924, outlines the political program, including the
terrorist methods, that National Socialism must pursue both in gaining
power and in exercising it thereafter in the new Germany."

http://www.britannica.com/topic/Mein-Kampf

Hmm.  Sol Theodore Roosevelt and Richard Nixon were "lefties"?

When they used wage and price controls absolutely. The commies
did it too.


The "right" generally has no issue with inequalities in wealth, status, and
privilege.  The "left" does.  The Nazis had no issue with the former.

The Nazi's were to the right of the Socialists. They were socialist light. 


You assume too much.  If the Nazis were, objectively, socialists, I would have no issue with that.  As you know, I am not a believer in communism.

The Nazi's were socialist light, they were to the right of socialists but
to the left of America's market capitalist economy and America's
Constitutional Republic.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #44 on: June 30, 2019, 05:28:56 PM »
Now to fascism - socialism, and communism, in theory, look to equalize individuals, the first being economic equality, and most "leftist" ideologies support such values, not only economically, but social and political equality, although even Marx did not call for this result.  Fascism does not call for equality in any way whatsoever.

If you look at the rise of fascism, you will see that where it occurred, it was a reaction against the communists.  Fascist leaders were supported by industrialists who feared a communist revolution.  Once fascists gained power, one of the first things they did was sell off state industries to private industry.  They encouraged private ownership, big business, and profit.  However, all industry had to serve the national interest, i.e., the state.  Trade unions, a stalwart of socialist states, were smashed by fascists, and replaced with state unions that served major business owners.  These things hardly sound "left" to me.

They didn't allow trade unions in the Soviet Union either. The Soviets nearly
reinvaded Poland because of their union(s)

The part that makes it all lefty is that they had to serve the national interest
of the State, by the State, for the State as determined by the State.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline mhr7

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #45 on: June 30, 2019, 06:13:50 PM »
The part that makes it all lefty is that they had to serve the national interest
of the State, by the State, for the State as determined by the State.

"They" could be citizens of any state.
"After your death, you will be what you were before your birth." - Schopenhauer

Offline tfcrew

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #46 on: June 30, 2019, 06:33:32 PM »
Who wants the government to control the people and who wants the people to control the government?
~There is no one more blind than those who refuse to see and none more deaf as those who will not listen~
~Think about the intelligence of the average person and then realize that half of the people are even more stupid than that~

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2019, 02:11:53 AM »
Russians of all “flavors” love their rodina
fields of grain for wild horses to run
polushka pole

Sovietska nationalizma eta horrosho

Evidently not.  Had they loved it so much, it would not have collapsed.

Quote
BO,
question for you!

when you were living in the good ole CCCP
did you have a job?

could someone ever level the accusation against you
that you were someone who "aided and abetted" the Soviet Union
a country that was in ideological and military opposition to the whole western world
a country who was considered to be an enemy of your own country at the time...
by helping the Soviet Union, did you end up hurting Canada and other Western democracies by some measure

I'm not suggesting that you worked as a technician in a nuclear warhead assembly facility
but did you have a job that would be considered supporting the Soviet Union?

No, I never worked there.  I could not work there, legally.  Westerners could not work there unless they were specifically invited (usually technical people with special skills related to industries for which the USSR had purchased foreign - usually German - equipment), or if they defected.

Canada was not particularly anti Soviet at that time.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
« Last Edit: July 01, 2019, 02:14:42 AM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2019, 04:41:49 AM »
"Evidently not.  Had they loved it so much, it would not have collapsed."

how could they have prevented it from collapsing?
America will go the same way in a few more decades, I ALREADY know this...

if America was smart, and we both know that's not true
but if it was
it would prepare for a "soft landing"
by being THE regional power in an American Union of nations in the western hemisphere
not the EU
the AU

but politically we are light years away from doing that
but America's future will be entirely 100% in the Western Hemisphere

and remember folks

A man a plan, Panama!

Panama canal is using temporary shutdowns to conserve the water that operates the locks due to a drought
in a few years the panama canal will likely be shutdown on a regular basis because of the global warming caused drought
unless it is retrofitted to use water from a different source to operate the locks

China wants to build a new canal to the north that doesn't use locks
anyone home in Washington, hello...hello...???
where? mar-a-largo?




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Re: The Politics of the Far Left and Far Right
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2019, 09:52:21 AM »
WRONG!!!

Nationalists were routinely arrested and thrown in gulags.  There was a provision in the Soviet Criminal Code about nationalism. 

Sure, if you were a Ukrainian/Belarussian nationalist you were in big trouble,
but if you were a "Soviet Union nationalist" you were in on the correct side.

They had campaigns on the New Soviet man, the Soviet Olympians, the
Soviet space program, the Soviet military, blah, blah, etc a million times
over. Their superior Soviet man or athlete or even system of government
were superior to all others, it was Nationalistic.


As for conservatism, how many conservatives destroy the places of worship
of the majority of the population, and ensure for those few places of worship remaining, that anyone attending will never succeed in their work life? 

Zero? I don't understand what point you are trying to make. I never tried
to call the USSR conservative. They had these socially conservative goals. 
The new Soviet man wasn't supposed to be a drinker, a womanizer, etc.
They were abject failures at achieving these goals (and most everything
else they tried to accomplish).

They had Soviet missiles in their parades. They said they weren't
Soviet nationalists but they were.

FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

 

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