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Author Topic: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?  (Read 450995 times)

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Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1950 on: August 24, 2014, 01:38:25 PM »
Putin is no Uncle Ho. 



The American Army lost just over 58,000 soldiers. Ho Chi Mihn's north Vietnamese Army lost over 1,000,000 men. Ho Chi Mihn only won the Vietnam war because our politicians held our military back for years. The country is much smaller than Iraq and Afghanistan. Shouldn't have taken long to do the job. Ho Chi Mihn wasn't a great leader but he did benefit from an America at the time that didn't want to win and later didn't want to fight. Ho Chi Mihn was a poor strategist and got a lot of his men killed. Putin is smarter than uncle Ho.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1951 on: August 24, 2014, 05:44:02 PM »
The stuff you mentioned is not irrelevant because you said it which is the de facto response of the Putin trolls.  It is irrelevant because there is no path for victory for Putin.  He knows it.  You say this guy is smart.  You list his accomplishments and you say commanders are accountants too. Yet the only bene out of this is Crimea and it is a tarbaby.

Jone? Anyone else? Putin smart or dumbass?

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1952 on: August 24, 2014, 08:07:54 PM »
It is irrelevant because there is no path for victory for Putin.



If Putin uses guns to settle differences and achieve goals and the West uses sanctions, who do you think will get their way in the end?


Like you, I don't like what Putin is doing but reality is the West isn't willing to go all in to stop him.


You list his accomplishments and you say commanders are accountants too. Yet the only bene out of this is Crimea and it is a tarbaby.



Putin got Crimea without losing a man. With Crimea and millions of people that live there, he also got ownership to a large part of the Black Sea that is storing over a trillion dollars worth of natural resources. More importantly that, on a personal level his popularity in Russia has skyrocketed. That's job security for life.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1953 on: August 24, 2014, 09:01:57 PM »

If Putin uses guns to settle differences and achieve goals and the West uses sanctions, who do you think will get their way in the end?

You know and I know that military solutions at best are limited.  Even if Putin is able to muster his Army and blitzkreig across Ukraine like it's 1939, he will have to contend with 45 million possible insurgents.  This nation will resist.  He will realistically have to start nuking cities like they do in the Polish scenarios that their Belo-russian exercises presume.  Will the world tolerate the use to tactical nukes?  That's the kind of stuff that got MacArthur fired and Ike almost voted out of office. 

I agree with you the Western response has been at best weak.  But this is Putin's problem - this is the problem of anyone in authority.  Your authority is dependent on those you presumably lord over as anyone with teenagers can attest.

Like you, I don't like what Putin is doing but reality is the West isn't willing to go all in to stop him.

We could write long paragraphs of agreement on who castrated the Western response has been.  But it doesn't matter, the Ukrainians are fighting and winning.


Putin got Crimea without losing a man. With Crimea and millions of people that live there, he also got ownership to a large part of the Black Sea that is storing over a trillion dollars worth of natural resources.


He can't hold it.  The population is miserable.  Even those that voted for this lunacy are finding out how Ukrainian they really are.

More importantly that, on a personal level his popularity in Russia has skyrocketed. That's job security for life.

Quote
those who foolishly sought power by riding the back of the tiger ended up inside.

Jone compared Putin to Hitler and concluded that he is not the guy.  I agreed because Hitler was one helluva performance artist.  Putin would have no future in Hollywood.

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1954 on: August 25, 2014, 04:14:22 PM »

Just shooting down some of your wishful silliness.  I don't believe v. Putin will shortly be overthrown like you do. 
Fathertime!


LMFAO


One liners with nothing to say.


Man, you are a peach.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1955 on: August 25, 2014, 05:11:40 PM »

LMFAO


One liners with nothing to say.


Man, you are a peach.
I’ve said plenty regarding the Ukraine/Russia crisis and will continue to voice my opinions.  I’m glad I remain in the forefront of your mind!  I can already sense that you have toned down your posts in response.   :) [size=78%] [/size][/size][size=78%]Maybe you can tell us more stories about how everybody ran when they saw you in elementary school again. [/size] :rolleyes: [/size][size=78%]  [/size]
[/size]
[/size][size=78%]Fathertime!  [/size]


I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1956 on: August 26, 2014, 07:19:14 AM »
I’ve said plenty regarding the Ukraine/Russia crisis and will continue to voice my opinions.  I’m glad I remain in the forefront of your mind!  I can already sense that you have toned down your posts in response.   :) [size=78%]Maybe you can tell us more stories about how everybody ran when they saw you in elementary school again. [/size] :rolleyes: [size=78%]  [/size]

[size=78%]Fathertime!  [/size]


Please, can you give me your opinion on this win-win situation? If I remember correctly, you categorically stated that Russia will not invade Ukraine.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1957 on: August 26, 2014, 03:56:11 PM »

Please, can you give me your opinion on this win-win situation? If I remember correctly, you categorically stated that Russia will not invade Ukraine.


You don't remember correctly.  My belief was that AT THE TIME, Russia would not be invading with the massive troops at the border...because it was too obvious and they would have moved quicker if that was the plan...  YOU are the one who as you said 'screamed from the rooftops' that Russia wouldn't invade Crimea...obviously you were mistaken.
 I'd say what they are doing now is accomplishing their goals for now. 
The two leaders met today, which means there is still the possibility of both nations gaining something in the end here, whether YOU like it or not. 
Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1958 on: August 26, 2014, 05:36:29 PM »

To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline jone

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1959 on: August 26, 2014, 06:37:01 PM »
Muzh,

Regarding your post yesterday:

Here, again, is one who didn't come home:

http://m.riavrn.ru/society/news/v-voronezhskoy-oblasti-pokhoronili-komvzvoda-pskovskoy-divizii-/

Obviously, this is the same paratrooper unit that was caught in Lugansk and eaten up piecemeal.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1960 on: August 27, 2014, 08:36:48 AM »
Another one that Lavarov has categorically disavowed.


Heh heh heh
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline southernX

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1961 on: August 27, 2014, 06:45:04 PM »
given how the terrorists have not been able to get support within ukraine sufficient enough with the local population to grow their ranks , it now seesm putin has decided to use his military to push his objectives along the coast to crimea

i have thought from the begining this was a logical strategic aim if i had of been putin
given the weak response by the EU/US/NATO , it now seesm more inevitable he will push for his land bridge to crimea /moldova
Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in a garage makes you a car.

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1962 on: September 23, 2014, 07:18:00 PM »

Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1963 on: September 25, 2014, 08:53:52 AM »
I was wondering why the stock market had dropped today for no particular reason. The article I read stated that Russia is now considering seizing foreign assets, many of which are US owned.  It seems obvious this would be in response to the sanctions.

Perhaps coincidentally I read elsewhere that Obama is considering loosening the sanctions if Russia cooperates with the latest peace proposal.

Fathertime!

Fathertime!
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline AC

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1964 on: September 25, 2014, 01:50:37 PM »
I was wondering why the stock market had dropped today for no particular reason. The article I read stated that Russia is now considering seizing foreign assets, many of which are US owned.  It seems obvious this would be in response to the sanctions.

Perhaps coincidentally I read elsewhere that Obama is considering loosening the sanctions if Russia cooperates with the latest peace proposal.

Fathertime!

Fathertime!

It is far more likely that the air campaign against ISIS has to do with this.  Any major unrest in the Middle East often causes financial volatility.  They just bombed oil refineries under the control of ISIS.  There is talk of ISIS and other groups wanting to get "revenge" of some sort against the USA. 

Offline Gator

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1965 on: September 25, 2014, 03:22:02 PM »
I was wondering why the stock market had dropped today for no particular reason. The article I read stated that Russia is now considering seizing foreign assets, many of which are US owned.  It seems obvious this would be in response to the sanctions.




Technical trading after hitting the Death Cross.     http://www.businessinsider.com/the-death-cross-foretold-everything-2014-9


Russia had a role in getting to the Death Cross because the conflict in Ukraine and sanctions will slow further an an already slowing European economy.


There should be some good buys if this continues.   




Offline fathertime

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1966 on: September 25, 2014, 08:07:18 PM »



Technical trading after hitting the Death Cross.     http://www.businessinsider.com/the-death-cross-foretold-everything-2014-9


Russia had a role in getting to the Death Cross because the conflict in Ukraine and sanctions will slow further an an already slowing European economy.


There should be some good buys if this continues.


I noticed about 8 different theories on why the market has been a little weird lately.  It perked my interest when I read the one regarding Russia moving towards seizing american assets.   I would not like to see that happen. 


Yeah, if you have money sitting out maybe something will pop up....Myself I'd rather not see a large drop at all right now, as I can get stung by that. 


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1967 on: September 26, 2014, 03:46:58 AM »
Is Russian seizure of Foreign assets a justified response to sanctions?

Offline Drew

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1968 on: September 26, 2014, 09:27:10 AM »
Is Russian seizure of Foreign assets a justified response to sanctions?

I would like to see it happen.

Nothing would harm Russia's future quite as much as the long run consequences for their seizure of assets owned by foreigners.

The cutback in FDI (foreign direct investment) in Russia would be tremendous and retard their growth of GNP much more than the current sanctions are doing.

So go for it a$$holes.

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1969 on: September 26, 2014, 11:29:05 AM »
Is Russian seizure of Foreign assets a justified response to sanctions?


According to Russia, the sanctions aren't justified because they never invaded Ukraine so they feel tit for tat economic warfare is fair game.



EU Rejects Putin Demand For Ukraine Deal Changes. Putin doesn't want the EU-Ukraine accord to be signed until 2016. I think Putin has changed course and wait to rig some elections instead of taking Ukraine by force right now.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/26/eu-putin-ukraine-deal_n_5888562.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Gator

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1970 on: September 26, 2014, 03:00:19 PM »
I would like to see it happen.

Nothing would harm Russia's future quite as much as the long run consequences for their seizure of assets owned by foreigners.

The cutback in FDI (foreign direct investment) in Russia would be tremendous and retard their growth of GNP much more than the current sanctions are doing.

So go for it a$$holes.


You speak PRAVDA.  I would say that Russia will come to its senses and not seize foreign assets, except I did not believe that Putin would ever do what he has done in Ukraine.   


Do American companies, other than Big Oil,  have large investments in Russia?  Energy companies are still investing in Russia, although the sanctions make it difficult:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/06/10/business/international/for-western-oil-companies-expanding-in-russia-is-a-dance-around-sanctions.html?_r=0


Russia's incursion in Ukraine is hurting the Russian economy.  For a quick summary of the obvious, without any analysis, this CNN report today covers the 16% YTD plunge of the ruble (the Euro has declined about 6% over the same period as the EU economy slackens.  This will eventually affect the American economy if money supply is not stimulated (Europe is talking QE as in quantitative easing).


http://money.cnn.com/2014/09/26/investing/russia-ruble-fall/index.html?iid=HP_LN

Any rumors regarding Vladimir Evtushenkov, the next Mikhail Khodorkovsky?    What did he do?
« Last Edit: September 26, 2014, 03:02:21 PM by Gator »

Offline Brasscasing

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1971 on: September 26, 2014, 03:53:57 PM »
As an aside; For anyone who's interested here's some biographic information on the new Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg...

http://www.rferl.org/content/nato-profile-jens-stoltenberg/25313513.html

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/who_is_who_49999.htm

Brass
...Build the wall. Even Heaven has a gate...

"Because without America there is no free world" ~ Canada Free Press

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1972 on: September 26, 2014, 04:52:28 PM »

According to Russia, the sanctions aren't justified because they never invaded Ukraine so they feel tit for tat economic warfare is fair game.



EU Rejects Putin Demand For Ukraine Deal Changes. Putin doesn't want the EU-Ukraine accord to be signed until 2016. I think Putin has changed course and wait to rig some elections instead of taking Ukraine by force right now.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/09/26/eu-putin-ukraine-deal_n_5888562.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592

So is that a yes justified or no, not justified?

lordtiberius

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1973 on: September 26, 2014, 04:55:25 PM »
As an aside; For anyone who's interested here's some biographic information on the new Secretary General of NATO, Jens Stoltenberg...

http://www.rferl.org/content/nato-profile-jens-stoltenberg/25313513.html

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/who_is_who_49999.htm

Brass

 :applause:

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #1974 on: September 26, 2014, 08:14:18 PM »
Any rumors regarding Vladimir Evtushenkov, the next Mikhail Khodorkovsky?    What did he do?



Money laundering. Oligarchs in Russia usually get arrested for getting into politics. As long as they stay out, their safe. This is the first case an oligarch got arrested even though he didn't poke his head into politics. My guess is those guys have their phones tapped and Evtushenkov said something Putin didn't like.


So is that a yes justified or no, not justified?


I don't think Russia should seize Western companies doing business in their country over the sanctions applied as punishment for their involvement in Ukraine. What really got Russia going on this is Italy seizing the assets of one of Putin's friends. If Russia proceeds, I suspect they will be hurt for a very long time. It will take years before foreign investors trust Russia again who will be earning a reputation for stealing companies whenever they feel like.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

 

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