Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[BC]

guess which one of them would raise more eye brows if both released ALL of their records from highschool till now.... I don't believe we'd have Obama as a president if that happened.

http://www.factcheck.org/2012/07/obamas-sealed-records/

Claims #1, 2 and 4, college records. Obama’s college records are not “sealed” by a court order, as this graphic would have you believe. It would be illegal under federal law (the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act of 1974) for Occidental, Columbia or Harvard Law School to give any former student’s records to reporters or members of the public without that person’s specific, written permission. Obama hasn’t released them, but neither have other presidential candidates released their college records. George W. Bush’s grades at Yale eventually became public, but only because somebody leaked them to the New Yorker magazine. Bush himself refused to release them, according to a 1999 profile in the Washington Post.

But yeah.. this site is also some commie socialist dem propaganda site.

[Gator]

He was quite open about his tax returns wasn't he?

He was.  Just another example of diversions by the Democrats knowing their own man is questionable.   Please name one instance of when Romney lied.   
 

[Gator]

Yes, the simplest rule for sure.  But where's compromise in Congress when the Republican ruled House simply say 'No taxes'?  Compromise is different from being stubborn as a rock by principle..

Obviously, you did not read Woodward's book.

 

divisiveness?  the basic problem of the Republican party is divisiveness.... that's why Romney did not get elected.. he was not inclusive enough.

Based on the 50-49 vote, both parties are equally divisive.  One party aligns itself with the middle class, white, married group (which used to be the American ethic).   The other party...
 
When I mentioned divisiveness, I was talking about our President, not the political parties.  Once elected, the President's governance should build relationships.  He did not do that, and instead ignored if not upset half of his constituents.    BC, you live too far away to understand the deep-seated animosity if not hatred expressed everyday about Obama.  I hope Obama succeeds in bringing us together.  I fear he will fail again.


 

[BC]

He was.  Just another example of diversions by the Democrats knowing their own man is questionable.   Please name one instance of when Romney lied.

Gator,

respectfully, it's not about whether one candidate has a 'Persilschein' or not.. (I did not bring the subject up as it has been discussed in detail waaay upthread)  It's more about inevitable changes in a nation with one party not adequately addressing the desires of the constituency, thus loosing an election.

I can imagine you are a bit sour right now.. but what I am hearing from many disgruntled is something like this:

[happyandstable]

So I guess we have our answer to this question, and for all those who did not get the answer it is:
NO
 Good thing the right guy won. How hopefully we can move on to something more intelligent then talking to republicans. 

[Eduard]

But first, they will have to find a better place when you consider the entire package.

Yes, I agree our country is in trouble and with Obama's plans we will decline further.

Our children and grandchildren are not going to enjoy the life that we have.

However, really; where is a better place right now?

With the demographic and political changes in the US, Russia may not look too bad...

[BC]

Obviously, you did not read Woodward's book.

I did not.

   
Based on the 50-49 vote, both parties are equally divisive.  One party aligns itself with the middle class, white, married group (which used to be the American ethic).   The other party...
 
When I mentioned divisiveness, I was talking about our President, not the political parties.  Once elected, the President's governance should build relationships.  He did not do that, and instead ignored if not upset half of his constituents.    BC, you live too far away to understand the deep-seated animosity if not hatred expressed everyday about Obama. I hope Obama succeeds in bringing us together.  I fear he will fail again.

Gator,

I did feel a bit of animosity during my visit, but you are right I am remote.  But does that really matter?  The Constitution can be amended to allow only he 'middle class, white, married group' to vote.. cold exclude Americans living overseas as well since they number far more than the difference in the popular vote this election.  Until then though why not just accept things as they are and yes, hope, and work for the best.. Insha'Allāh

[LAman]

Obviously, you did not read Woodward's book.

   
Based on the 50-49 vote, both parties are equally divisive.  One party aligns itself with the middle class, white, married group (which used to be the American ethic).   The other party...
 
When I mentioned divisiveness, I was talking about our President, not the political parties.  Once elected, the President's governance should build relationships.  He did not do that, and instead ignored if not upset half of his constituents.    BC, you live too far away to understand the deep-seated animosity if not hatred expressed everyday about Obama.  I hope Obama succeeds in bringing us together.  I fear he will fail again.

It is the american way now. In fact, all recent presidents going back several decades. The 'other side' just throws shit and hope it sticks. Hell, just look here.....a microcosm of this nation. Lot of haters here!!!!

[BC]

snopes IMHO isn't the end all/tell all either BC. If you wish to accept that explanation, knock yourself out. I did sift through the net some time back before BO was elected the first time. There has been some serious scrubbing of all information relating to BO and Michelle. Much information that was previously on the net just simply isn't there to be found any longer. Conspiracy, who knows? What I did read before was she knowingly participated in an insurance fraud and was allowed to surrender her license to avoid prosecution. The Bar of Illinois lists her license voluntarily surrendered, not inactive. Good luck finding much more on the incident on the net other than emails and snopes

FP,

just received a link from someone in the legal field that might help you and others better understand the situation with Michelle's license to practice law...  -nothing amiss...

http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/105998/

[Turboguy]

  It's more about inevitable changes in a nation with one party not adequately addressing the desires of the constituency, thus loosing an election.

I don't think that is the case at all.  Most American's don't like the way Obama has governed, some do however.


I was looking at some demographics from the exit polls earlier and going from memory.   Romney got 58% of the white vote to Obama's 40%.   Obama got 95% of the black vote.  Obama got 65% of the hispanic vote.  Obama got around 58% of the women's vote.   


I think it was that many didn't like either choice but Obama was the devil they know.
Romney lost a little credibility when he hemmed and hawed about releasing his tax returns.
Romney came off as being a little aloof and didn't relate well to working people and of course Obama's strong area, the welfare people
Romney's pro life stance hurt some with women
Romney's religion bothered some.
Romney spent too much time defending himself against Obama claims and not enough outlining his programs and plans to be a better president.


No one issue was to blame.  If you lose one vote out of a hundred because of the abortion stance, one vote out of a hundred to the religion, one vote out of a hundred to his aloofness, one vote out of a hundred to his failure to clearly outline his plans, one vote out of a hundred over his stubbornness concerning the tax returns then you have lost enough votes unnecessarily to cost him the election.

[BC]

I don't think that is the case at all.  Most American's don't like the way Obama has governed, some do however.

Yeah, the majority, in popular and electoral vote.. obviously.

I was looking at some demographics from the exit polls earlier and going from memory.   Romney got 58% of the white vote to Obama's 40%.   Obama got 95% of the black vote.  Obama got 65% of the hispanic vote.  Obama got around 58% of the women's vote.   

I cringe at such demographic analysis... they are all Americans..  Maybe the bus should be divided into sections again?.. first white men, then white women, then in the middle Hispanic and then Blacks at the back? Maybe we should disenfranchise women and minorities again?.. maybe add the unemployed and disabled?

Absolutely nothing personal Turbo, but this is one of my 'pet peeves' about the election process.. I view it as absolutely divisive.

I think it was that many didn't like either choice but Obama was the devil they know.
Romney lost a little credibility when he hemmed and hawed about releasing his tax returns.
Romney came off as being a little aloof and didn't relate well to working people and of course Obama's strong area, the welfare people
Romney's pro life stance hurt some with women
Romney's religion bothered some.
Romney spent too much time defending himself against Obama claims and not enough outlining his programs and plans to be a better president.

No one issue was to blame.  If you lose one vote out of a hundred because of the abortion stance, one vote out of a hundred to the religion, one vote out of a hundred to his aloofness, one vote out of a hundred to his failure to clearly outline his plans, one vote out of a hundred over his stubbornness concerning the tax returns then you have lost enough votes unnecessarily to cost him the election.

I think voters cast their ballots for who they felt is 'right' and not as who presents the smallest 'evil'.. the Republican Party and Romney did not screw up.. they just did not represent the views of of the majority.... that's it.

[Turboguy]

I think voters cast their ballots for who they felt is 'right' and not as who presents the smallest 'evil'.. the Republican Party and Romney did not screw up.. they just did not represent the views of of the majority.... that's it.

Well since the majority of the people voted for Obama I can't totally disagree with you but I do think there is one other factor that was the real thing.


People vote for people as much or more than they vote for views.   Obama is very likable.   He is an excellent speaker and comes of as a nice person.  He is easy to like.  Romney was far less likable.  People voting for Romney voted for the views.   People voting for Obama voted for the person.   If people voted for views then one party would dominate but in most states one party can carry the presidency, another the governorship,  the legislative winners are often split.   I will agree that people are very greedy.  They will vote for the person who will help them even if they think he is not the best choice for the country.   Welfare recipients will vote overwhelmingly for the person who they think will give them the most benefits regardless of what the cost to the country is.   

[Faux Pas]

FP,

just received a link from someone in the legal field that might help you and others better understand the situation with Michelle's license to practice law...  -nothing amiss...

http://www.wnd.com/2009/08/105998/

I've seen it before. It is well after the period to which I refer

[BC]

Well since the majority of the people voted for Obama I can't totally disagree with you but I do think there is one other factor that was the real thing.


People vote for people as much or more than they vote for views.   Obama is very likable.   He is an excellent speaker and comes of as a nice person.  He is easy to like.  Romney was far less likable.  People voting for Romney voted for the views.   People voting for Obama voted for the person.   If people voted for views then one party would dominate but in most states one party can carry the presidency, another the governorship,  the legislative winners are often split.   I will agree that people are very greedy.  They will vote for the person who will help them even if they think he is not the best choice for the country.   Welfare recipients will vote overwhelmingly for the person who they think will give them the most benefits regardless of what the cost to the country is.

All this is really quite democrtatic...  Some women might think Obama is sexy and vote for him because of that.. a quite valid vote IMHO in a democracy.   Interesting you mention welfare recipients.. sometimes referred to as 'bottom feeders'..  Just realize that there are also 'top feeders' as well so things indeed remain quite democratic in nature.

[Shadow]

It seems that my prediction about Obama being destined to win was true.
As mentioned, it is incredible that he even had a chance at being elected again if judges to how his popularity has sank since his first election.

Republicans should start thinking of finding a candidate that does not come over to the world as a living dinosaur, with all respect for Romney.

[Gator]

Good thing the right guy won. How hopefully we can move on to something more intelligent then talking to republicans.

Based on this post and your most recent post before it,  I infer that you have stopped your personal growth.
 

We only become better people by being willing to hear and try to understand points of view that are very different then our own. It is through this kind of personal growth that we can become the kind of people that we ourselves can be proud of.

 

[Gator]

I can imagine you are a bit sour right now.. but what I am hearing from many disgruntled is something like this

BC, I had long ago resigned to the likelihood that Obama would prevail (read the first few pages of this thread).  My concern is that if Obama could win given his record, how could the social agenda not win every election!    The American economy will endure four years of Obama thanks to the counterbalance of the House of Reps; however,  the direction we are headed really concerns me.
 
I will admit that after the first debate, I was energized into thinking that Romney could pull this off.  My hopes were buoyed only to come crashing down while watching the Florida and Virginia voting returns. I assert that my feelings today are more than disappointment.

[Gator]

I cringe at such demographic analysis... they are all Americans..  Absolutely nothing personal Turbo, but this is one of my 'pet peeves' about the election process.. I view it as absolutely divisive.

The voting results, not the mere mentioning of demographics, illustrates racism IMO.   
 
 
 
 

[Shadow]

BC, I had long ago resigned to the likelihood that Obama would prevail (read the first few pages of this thread).  My concern is that if Obama could win given his record, how could the social agenda not win every election!    The American economy will endure four years of Obama thanks to the counterbalance of the House of Reps; however,  the direction we are headed really concerns me.
 
I will admit that after the first debate, I was energized into thinking that Romney could pull this off.  My hopes were buoyed only to come crashing down while watching the Florida and Virginia voting returns. I assert that my feelings today are more than disappointment.

The Republicans will have to modernize and perhaps look at a company as Apple to reform their image. Apple did not deliver many innovarions during their rise to power, but they did a great job at packaging them, essentially hiding their weak points under a glamour package. They should find a candidate that on charisma alone can outshine all others, for substance they can always give a running mate. Above all other things, elections are won on show.

[BC]

BC, I had long ago resigned to the likelihood that Obama would prevail (read the first few pages of this thread).  My concern is that if Obama could win given his record, how could the social agenda not win every election!    The American economy will endure four years of Obama thanks to the counterbalance of the House of Reps; however,  the direction we are headed really concerns me.
 
I will admit that after the first debate, I was energized into thinking that Romney could pull this off.  My hopes were buoyed only to come crashing down while watching the Florida and Virginia voting returns. I assert that my feelings today are more than disappointment.

Gator,

we both voted.. and that in itself is a privilege that even those elected cannot take away. 

Romney 'took it like a man' IMHO..  Constituents devoted to him should too.

[BC]

The voting results, not the mere mentioning of demographics, illustrates racism IMO.

I disagree.  The results show democracy at work and it's evolution.

I do agree though that it is often hard to keep up with the times..

[ECOCKS]

Interesting that so few can get away from rehashing campaigns, mouthing denials and bringing up the conspiracies and unsettled controversies. He won, get over it and begin implementing your Backup Plan. Don't have one? Better go back over the most consistent advice on this forum.....next thing you know, you'll be sending money.

The country will suffer through four more years without leadership, go deeper into debt, drive away still more business and deal with increasing unemployment (watch what happens when they downsize the military, local government payrolls and reduce defense contract spending). Oh yeah, taxes are going up, the Obamacare tax alone will weaken the spending power of the economy, then there's the expiring tax cuts. Guess we will see how long the working people agree to pay others not to work.

This election came down too close (51.2% to 48.8%) to lay blame on any one factor. Many variables could have changed slightly and delivered the necessary number of votes - media bias, voter ignorance, outright lies and misrepresentations and so on. Yet, it really boils down to one simple fact:

A slight majority were content to maintain the status quo.

Over the next four years, we will see whether "the best is yet to come" or "REVENGE" gets played out. More divisiveness, a misperceived mandate or possibly a recognition of problems and assmbly of a qualified group of people to deal with them? Many are betting on more golfing and leaving it up to Leon and Hillary to run things as best they can until the cameras arrive.

In the meantime, remember that you can live outside the US, keep your passport, collect your SS and earn income up to $92,900/year tax-free (unless they cut that exemption and try to collect taxes across international lines).

Lotsa' Luck!

It's a certainty that there will be plenty of folks (about 48.8%) who will be reminding the other 51.2% that this was a choice made by the blues. Someone said we could survive a bad President but should be far more concerned about how he managed to get elected.

[BC]

In the meantime, remember that you can live outside the US, keep your passport, collect your SS and earn income up to $92,900/year tax-free (unless they cut that exemption and try to collect taxes across international lines).

92K exempt from US taxes.... but not local taxes which in most cases are higher than in the US.  Other credits apply, housing credit, overseas taxe credit etc so the 92K can be quite a bit higher before having to owe Uncle Sam.

[happyandstable]

Good thing the right guy won. How hopefully we can move on to something more intelligent then talking to republicans.

Based on this post and your most recent post before it,  I infer that you have stopped your personal growth.

We only become better people by being willing to hear and try to understand points of view that are very different then our own. It is through this kind of personal growth that we can become the kind of people that we ourselves can be proud of.

 
 

    It is not a cessation of personal growth to learn that it is a waste of time to try and convince some people of the truth when they want to live in a fantasy world that does not exist. It is actual personal growth to learn not to waste one’s time in such efforts. Once you have listen to someone and know that they will never grow themselves because they have chosen to cease all personal growth in favor of clinging to out dated ways of looking at the world.

[SFandEE]

 


I enjoy sunsets.