Does the ring matter?

[tfcrew]

Why would she immediately assume it is diamond, she might, but unless I tell her its diamond and it is otherwise then it is just her misbelief and I can hardly be blamed for that if I made no statement as to the type of stones.

That was told like a true politician.

 
 

[tfcrew]

How about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-00-CTW-Emerald-Cut-GIA-Certified-Halo-Diamond-Engagement-Platinum-950-Ring-/192023433780?hash=item2cb57d1234:g:rqQAAOSw4DJYkh41



It says "make offer"
So offer say $50


 

[HoundDaddyLee]

How about this one?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/15-00-CTW-Emerald-Cut-GIA-Certified-Halo-Diamond-Engagement-Platinum-950-Ring-/192023433780?hash=item2cb57d1234:g:rqQAAOSw4DJYkh41



It says "make offer"
So offer say $50

Trench: "Can I get that in a cubic zirconia?"

[northkape]

I am siding with ML,,,,
But even more so, as I never even got to the point of buying wedding rings at all.
Not that Tanya didn't want it,,,, she absolutely did (and probably still do).
But on that evening, the day before marrying at Zaks, the juveler shops closed before we got there, so we married without rings, wedding dress, ceremony and so on.
And me being both unromantic and pragmatic, never gave this a second thought ever after that.
I hate, and would never wear anything, be it a ring, watch, necklace or whatever,,,,

Tanya has ever since, threatened me about finding a real man, and having a real wedding, with rings, ceremony, party and all.
Well, I tell her, she is free to do, her life - her decision.... 
 

[ML]

I am siding with ML,,,,

Shows a man with good decision making skills !!

[BillyB]

an expensive one may put the woman's life in danger if living in a poor area of Russia or Ukraine.

Does your girl live in a poor and dangerous area? Your belief about buying her a Zirconia to keep her safe is wrong. A thief who sees a ring isn't going to take the time to investigate what stone a woman is wearing.

You're increasing your chances to fail with this woman if you give her Zirconia. She will be happy as if you give her a diamond. You will reap the benefits of her happiness although you wouldn't deserve it. The day she learns it's not real loses you points in the respect department. A woman can love a man she doesn't respect.

There is a tool that is applied to the stone to tell if it's a real diamond or not. Your lady may take the ring to the jeweler to learn about the stone in the ring. Or she may learn about the stone at a pawn shop.

Diamond are overpriced and they are not rare. Go to any jewelry stone and what is the most common gem in there? I've got power tools with blades full of diamonds to cut metal and concrete.

Unfortunately DeBeers had a monopoly on diamonds which pushed up the price. They also had a good campaign slogan. Diamonds are a girls best friend and pushed their products in movies such as the 007 film Diamonds are Forever.

tfcrew had a good suggestion of buying her a small diamond ring like the one on Ebay for $300. A jeweler can polish it up to look new. Ebay has a good policy to prevent scams. If the product isn't real, you return it and Ebay will pull the money out of their account and refund it back to you.

Like ML's wife, my wife doesn't always wear her wedding ring. I've never wore a wedding ring. Everybody is different so it's safe to assume your girl does care about a ring. Her first ring is supposed to be special and memorable. Zirconia isn't special although she may have memories of it, bad ones..

[Trenchcoat]

Trench: "Can I get that in a cubic zirconia?"

LOL Funny you say that HDL the ring in question looks very much like that one but with Zirconia stones is affordable at just over £300 Like I say you can get a nicer style in Zirconia that you often can't get (afford) in diamond.

[Trenchcoat]

I am siding with ML,,,,
But even more so, as I never even got to the point of buying wedding rings at all.
Not that Tanya didn't want it,,,, she absolutely did (and probably still do).
But on that evening, the day before marrying at Zaks, the juveler shops closed before we got there, so we married without rings, wedding dress, ceremony and so on.
And me being both unromantic and pragmatic, never gave this a second thought ever after that.
I hate, and would never wear anything, be it a ring, watch, necklace or whatever,,,,

Tanya has ever since, threatened me about finding a real man, and having a real wedding, with rings, ceremony, party and all.
Well, I tell her, she is free to do, her life - her decision.... 

Good Man I find all of these things terribly stifling like you are kind of forced into going through a set routine which is very stodgy on a mass production basis where it becomes impersonal and no one really enjoys themselves that much because its all become formality. Of course people want a celebration but I think here in the west its become so formal and expected (though fortunately not everyone follows the bog standard path) that it is a detrimental imposition on the couple more than anything.

[Trenchcoat]

I mean the main thing guys is that some of you on here are calling me a liar that I am not going to immediately declare the stones are not diamond - I think you are starting from the position of being entrenched with the idea of a diamond being supreme. It costs more for sure but I don't see it as being supreme merely another option. The given ring is given and it is how it is, either she likes it or not regardless of its make up. I can see how not telling her its not diamonds is an omission, I never started out from the position that they were diamonds, there should be no expectation they are diamonds. So long as the ring looks quality I now don't see the big hang up, Zirconia stones are essentially made as good as perfect with no imperfections unlike diamonds, sparkles just as much so is as good in my book. Though of course this may upset Debeers 

[jone]

I mean the main thing guys is that some of you on here are calling me a liar that I am not going to immediately declare the stones are not diamond - I think you are starting from the position of being entrenched with the idea of a diamond being supreme. It costs more for sure but I don't see it as being supreme merely another option. The given ring is given and it is how it is, either she likes it or not regardless of its make up. I can see how not telling her its not diamonds is an omission, I never started out from the position that they were diamonds, there should be no expectation they are diamonds. So long as the ring looks quality I now don't see the big hang up, Zirconia stones are essentially made as good as perfect with no imperfections unlike diamonds, sparkles just as much so is as good in my book. Though of course this may upset Debeers 

I could care less what you get her for a ring.  You have demonstrated, time and again, on this forum, that your understanding of relationships and women is insubstantial.  And when people on this forum respond to your requests for advice, you tell them why you are right and they are wrong. 

You are so out front of yourself.  Instead of what ring you are buying (or thinking about buying) you have not even started the process of integrating into her life - with the exception of a visit and some Skype calls.  HDL was absolutely right.  This is a marathon, not a sprint to the marriage finish line. 

You are on step 15 of a relationship.  And you are contemplating step 122.  Back off on the engagement ring. 

[Trenchcoat]

I could care less what you get her for a ring.  You have demonstrated, time and again, on this forum, that your understanding of relationships and women is insubstantial.  And when people on this forum respond to your requests for advice, you tell them why you are right and they are wrong. 

You are so out front of yourself.  Instead of what ring you are buying (or thinking about buying) you have not even started the process of integrating into her life - with the exception of a visit and some Skype calls.  HDL was absolutely right.  This is a marathon, not a sprint to the marriage finish line. 

You are on step 15 of a relationship.  And you are contemplating step 122.  Back off on the engagement ring.

Many of you thought I would not get a relationship & this venture was not for me, yet here I am. I am in the process of integrating girl into my life though this is best left to when we meet. A possible engagement at some point in the future is likely to be part of that. She has already stayed how serious she is to me and I am to her. Added to that she's definitely into me. The point is unless I wish to live a meagre life in Ukraine at some point we will have to get married in order to live together in UK or whatever other country. That or suffer the long term paralysis of a long term almost make believe relationship. I do not believe my girl wants a when the sailor is next in port type of relationship and neither do I. Essentially I'll do whatever it takes to be where I want to be. I'm not going to quibble at marriage if that is what's needed to be with her.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Many of you thought I would not get a relationship & this venture was not for me, yet here I am. I am in the process of integrating girl into my life though this is best left to when we meet. A possible engagement at some point in the future is likely to be part of that. She has already stayed how serious she is to me and I am to her. Added to that she's definitely into me. The point is unless I wish to live a meagre life in Ukraine at some point we will have to get married in order to live together in UK or whatever other country. That or suffer the long term paralysis of a long term almost make believe relationship. I do not believe my girl wants a when the sailor is next in port type of relationship and neither do I. Essentially I'll do whatever it takes to be where I want to be. I'm not going to quibble at marriage if that is what's needed to be with her.

[Boethius]

Many of you thought I would not get a relationship

You are still thinking of the "self", which means that no, you're not in a "relationship".

[msmob]

Many of you thought I would not get a relationship & this venture was not for me, yet here I am.

Matey, you met a gal once, got on and have second meeting 'planned' - a holiday ( vacation ) in a third country.  A relationship - yet - this is not

[Wayne]

Half of the largest diamond mines are in Russian Federation.
Could be that a real diamond purchased there would not cost that much more that the fake.

There are many electronic devices that can check for a real diamond.

Russian gold is a different color than gold in the west. It depends upon the other elements alloyed with the gold. The lighter color gold is not popular for FSU.

A traditional engagement of a year or more before getting married does not work well with a long distance relationship. Better to skip the engagement period and get live together for a few months instead.

My wife is a goldsmith and knows a lot about gems. Perhaps you would ask her opinion about receiving a fake ring!

[BillyB]

My wife is a goldsmith and knows a lot about gems. Perhaps you would ask her opinion about receiving a fake ring!

It's pretty simply. A fake ring can't help the relationship, only hurt it. Best not to buy a ring at all instead of buying fake.

Half of the largest diamond mines are in Russian Federation.
Could be that a real diamond purchased there would not cost that much more that the fake.

Not too sure Russia wants to rock the boat of inflated prices. They enjoy high profits. Better not flood the market with heavily discounted diamonds.

[ML]

I think it is a mistake to be referring to 'fake' stones.

Here are gemstones most commonly used as diamond substitutes:

White Sapphire. The white variety of sapphire is used not only because of this gemstone's diamond-like appearance but also due to its relative durability. ...
White Topaz. ...
Moissanite. ...
Cubic Zirconia. ...
Garnet. ...
Spinel. ...
Rutile.

Any and all of these should make nice rings for any occasion including engagement.

As others have pointed out this whole thingy with diamonds is mostly due to the great marketing campaign by the diamond industry.

This is similar to other campaigns which have brainwashed the public into following certain 'rules.'

Examples: 
Christmas extravagant gifts which have nothing to do with the true meaning of Christmas.
Valentines day:  Must do the roses and chocolates.
Funerals:  Must do the expensive flowers.  Note:  Most sensible relatives in charge of funeral arrangements have now started asking that people not send flowers, instead contributing to some medical cause.

So try to avoid the silliness with engagement rings similar to the new trend with avoiding flowers at funerals.

That is . . . chose a more sensibly priced stone.  Don't call it 'fake,' it is an actual specific stone.

Yes, I fell for the pressure of tradition and bought the diamond engagement ring for my first marriage; but I wouldn't do it today with my more sensible maturity.  And yes, I have and might again buy diamonds for Ochka; but not because of any 'standard procedure' I felt pressured into following.  With engagement rings, it is too early in the relationship to be putting out big bucks.

I  remember talking last summer or so with a neighbor woman who has two early teenage boys.
Somehow the ring topic came up; and she said: "I think it is totally unfair that my boys at some point will feel the pressure to buy a diamond ring for some gal."

[Boethius]

Cubic zirconias are not stones, they are synthesized, which is why they are not rare.


I think the issue is in not letting her choose, based on "traditional values" which really means "I'm cheap and want to put one over on her."  When she finds out, he will fall in esteem in her eyes. 

[Trenchcoat]

Cubic zirconias are not stones, they are synthesized, which is why they are not rare.


I think the issue is in not letting her choose, based on "traditional values" which really means "I'm cheap and want to put one over on her."  When she finds out, he will fall in esteem in her eyes.

Boethius the man is supposed to chose the engagement ring that's the whole point of it otherwise it is just like buying a wedding ring twice 

[Boethius]

There is no tradition of engagement rings in Ukrainian culture.  In Western culture, men can choose the ring, but the tradition is to purchase a gemstone, not a synthetic stone that you're selling as something else because you're too cheap to spring for the real thing.


ETA - If you were really such a "traditionalist", you wouldn't be having sex before marriage, and you certainly wouldn't be disclosing it online.

[BillyB]

I think it is a mistake to be referring to 'fake' stones.

Here are gemstones most commonly used as diamond substitutes:

White Sapphire. The white variety of sapphire is used not only because of this gemstone's diamond-like appearance but also due to its relative durability. ...
White Topaz. ...
Moissanite. ...
Cubic Zirconia. ...
Garnet. ...
Spinel. ...
Rutile.

Any and all of these should make nice rings for any occasion including engagement.

As long as those stones are announced when presenting the ring, it's not fake. "Honey, I want to give you a Zirconia engagement ring." Otherwise most women assume the man they are going to live their life with is presenting his first ring to her with a diamond.

Regardless of the advertising campaign and inflated prices, it worked and women bought into that diamonds are the thing to have.

Trench, I found a slightly larger diamond that is cheaper than the one tfcrew posted earlier. You can get it resized later. I can't imagine $250 is going to break the bank.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zales-3-8CT-Marquise-Diamond-Solitaire-Engagement-Wedding-Ring-14K-Yellow-Gold/292139153443?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D0d10271cc2fc4081b1d0796a04a11dfa%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D263018507161

[Trenchcoat]

There is no tradition of engagement rings in Ukrainian culture.  In Western culture, men can choose the ring, but the tradition is to purchase a gemstone, not a synthetic stone that you're selling as something else because you're too cheap to spring for the real thing.


ETA - If you were really such a "traditionalist", you wouldn't be having sex before marriage, and you certainly wouldn't be disclosing it online.

I different stone is not that much of a deviation, at least one that's not visible to the naked eye. No Ukrainian culture has no tradition of it but my culture does so I think it is nice to have a fusion between two cultures for on to share what the other has. I not getting synthetic stone for cheapness, I would be purchasing the ring for the beauty of the ring and how I think it would go with my girl, if in that situation aside of course from being an engagement ring.

If your going through a ceremony type of event then of course there is usually a tradition to it and while some things may be altered others that have a deep meaning to one or either side would take away from the meaning for that person if left out.

I don't see why you are so pent up about this Beothius, particularly as you are a woman, is the fact that you get to be with the person you love as a wedded couple not more important than what materials constitute the engagement ring? 

[Boethius]

In your culture, presenting a zirconia is an absolute no no, so you lose by presenting a cultural argument.  You know what the reaction of a WW would be if she assumed she'd been given a diamond, and found out it was a cubic zirconia.

[Trenchcoat]

As long as those stones are announced when presenting the ring, it's not fake. "Honey, I want to give you a Zirconia engagement ring." Otherwise most women assume the man they are going to live their life with is presenting his first ring to her with a diamond.

Regardless of the advertising campaign and inflated prices, it worked and women bought into that diamonds are the thing to have.

Trench, I found a slightly larger diamond that is cheaper than the one tfcrew posted earlier. You can get it resized later. I can't imagine $250 is going to break the bank.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zales-3-8CT-Marquise-Diamond-Solitaire-Engagement-Wedding-Ring-14K-Yellow-Gold/292139153443?_trksid=p2047675.c100009.m1982&_trkparms=aid%3D888007%26algo%3DDISC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D41375%26meid%3D0d10271cc2fc4081b1d0796a04a11dfa%26pid%3D100009%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D2%26sd%3D263018507161

Thanks BillyB, that's actually quite a nice one and I suppose it would be possible to get it resized to the right size, but I still prefer the Zirconia ring that I have seen. I have decided now that a diamond ring is not what I want to buy for an engagement ring, not due to being cheap but because I simply wish for a different type of ring should I go through with this, I don't want to be one of many, another in the crowd with no individuality like we have been branded all with the same iron. I don't think my girl is either even though our tastes aren't always the same. I'm sure this is the decision I wish to make here, visualizing it just feels right with this ring, with the other rings they just don't sit well with me.

[Trenchcoat]

In your culture, presenting a zirconia is an absolute no no, so you lose by presenting a cultural argument.  You know what the reaction of a WW would be if she assumed she'd been given a diamond, and found out it was a cubic zirconia.

That is why I don't want a Western Woman I don't want a woman that is more interested in materialism than in me its a path to disaster if you ask me and why so many marriages fail in the west - the US & UK have the highest divorce rate. I'm surprised the church still supports all this diamond ring setup its just setting married couple of down the wrong path by putting materialism as prime concern in a marriage.

I'm pretty sure those from working class backgrounds in the UK going back mid 20th century or before often didn't used to buy a diamond engagement ring for the sheer fact they couldn't afford one or felt it necessary. In fact I'm pretty sure my mother doesn't have one.