Ukraine Appoints Former NATO Secretary-General as Special Advisor

[Boethius]

Russia criticizes the appointment -

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/28/russia-ukraine-hires-ex-nato-chief-anders-fogh-rasmussen

[Boethius]

Here's one of Anders Fogh Rasmussen's first press conferences since being appointed an adviser to President Poroshenko -


http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-ukraine-crisis-rasmussen-idUKKCN0YJ0L9

[JayH]

More happening--not much doubt what some think.

At NATO summit 'package of consistent support for Ukraine' will be adopted

Vinnikov has said that NATO “has supported Ukraine more and more politically and practically over these last years. Our commitment to support the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine is reinforced by the fact that the decision to hold a Ukraine-NATO meeting at the summit in Warsaw was made at the highest level," he said.

http://uawire.org/news/at-nato-summit-package-of-consistent-support-for-ukraine-will-be-adopted

[JayH]

The Russians are now following the North Korean line, saying the expansion of NATO Missile Defence Shield capabilities is an “emerging threat” to its national security, and that U.S. claims that the most recent shield in Romania is to deflect Iran missiles, has been adamantly dismissed by President Vladimir Putin as a cover-up.

NATO Missile Sites, Russian Troops: The Cold War is Thawing at a Quickening Pace, But Who will Back Down First?
According to Putin, “They aren’t defensive systems, they are part of the U.S. strategic nuclear potential deployed on the periphery, in eastern Europe,” Putin said. “Now, after the deployment of those missile defense elements, we will have to think about how we can fend off the threats to the Russian Federation’s security.”

http://anonhq.com/nato-missile-sites-russian-troops-cold-war-thawing-quickening-pace-will-back-first/

[JayH]

“We need to judge President Putin by his deeds not his words,” he added. “He has invaded Georgia, he has invaded the Crimea, he has invaded Ukraine. He has used force and got away with it.

Nato risks nuclear war with Russia 'within a year', warns senior general

General Shirreff said that Mr Putin could be persuaded into an intervention in the Baltic by a “perception” of weakness in Nato, and predicted that, as in Crimea, the Russian president would present his actions as an act of defence to protect the large Russian-speaking minorities in those countries.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/nato-risks-nuclear-war-with-russia-within-a-year-senior-general-warns-a7035141.html

[BillyB]

The Russians are now following the North Korean line, saying the expansion of NATO Missile Defence Shield capabilities is an “emerging threat” to its national security, and that U.S. claims that the most recent shield in Romania is to deflect Iran missiles, has been adamantly dismissed by President Vladimir Putin as a cover-up.

America's and Europe's position is that the missile shield is to defend against attacks from Iran. They want us to believe they made a good nuke deal but the missile shield shows how much faith they have in Iran keeping promises. Of course it's also to help stop incoming missiles from Russia but they won't say that because they don't want to hurt Putin's feelings.

[JayH]

America's and Europe's position is that the missile shield is to defend against attacks from Iran. They want us to believe they made a good nuke deal but the missile shield shows how much faith they have in Iran keeping promises. Of course it's also to help stop incoming missiles from Russia but they won't say that because they don't want to hurt Putin's feelings.

That line about Iran stuck out. If I had my way I would be happy to include that line to  Ukraine-from Mariupol  to Kharkiv   !!  And then put in place the capacity to defend it--the ethnic Americans there minding their own business. !
Now that would call all of Putin's bluffing-- and show him and Russia for what they are.

[mendeleyev]

This is long, but very important. It is very accurate.

To understand how dangerous it is to the Kremlin for Ukraine to succeed as an independent nation, one should listen to the entirety.

[JayH]

If Ukraine submits bid for membership in NATO, the Alliance will have to consider it, in accordance with existing procedures. Nobody can block this process.

NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg said this --while delivering his speech at the University of Warsaw on Tuesday.

NATO TO CONSIDER  UKRAINE FOR MEMBERSHIP

"Nobody has the right to interfere in or to veto this process. It is a very important principle. Each country, including Ukraine, has the sovereign right to choose its own path ... If Ukraine submits bid, it will be considered," Stoltenberg said.

http://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-politics/2026654-stoltenberg-nato-to-consider-ukraines-bid-for-membership.html

[JayH]

A staple of Russian, pro-Russian, and so-called realist narratives is that NATO not only reneged on its promises to not enlarge after German reunification, it also rebuffed all Russian efforts to integrate with the organization. To paraphrase Ernest Hemingway, it is pretty to think so—but that is not the truth.


Exposing Russia’s False NATO Narrative

It also means not falling prey to narratives that seek to blame the victims of Russian threats, subversion, and aggression for said threats and aggression. Russia’s phony, self-serving narrative, like its overall information war, represents an assault on the very notion of objective truth. The integrity of the historical record is under attack, and defending it will help strengthen the foundations of European security. The false narrative peddled by Moscow and its supporters is not only factually wrong, it is morally and strategically corrosive. It is high time we defend that record and expose this deceitful narrative for the fraud it is.

http://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/new-atlanticist/exposing-russia-s-false-nato-narrative

[JayH]

More confirmation of details.

Ukraine, NATO Confirm Military Roadmap Approved
"The sides discussed the provisions of the State target defense program on weapons and military equipment development for the period till 2020, implementation of projects in the framework of the NATO Trust Funds for Ukraine and the reform of the national defense industry. During the meeting the Roadmap on NATO-Ukraine Defence Technical Cooperation was approved. It is going to be signed at the NATO Summit in Warsaw,"

http://sputniknews.com/europe/20160603/1040731747/ukraine-nato-cooperation.html#ixzz4AWMbr7yW

[JayH]

The level of irrationality is dangerous-if- the Russians start believing their own bs.


RUSSIA FEARS NATO 'GLOBAL STRIKE' FROM EASTERN EUROPE

NATO is laying the groundwork in Eastern Europe for a “global strike” against Russia, the deputy head of the Defense Council in Russia’s upper house of parliament has declared.

http://europe.newsweek.com/russia-fears-nato-global-strike-eastern-europe-senator-466853?rm=eu

[calmissile]

The level of irrationality is dangerous-if- the Russians start believing their own bs.


RUSSIA FEARS NATO 'GLOBAL STRIKE' FROM EASTERN EUROPE

NATO is laying the groundwork in Eastern Europe for a “global strike” against Russia, the deputy head of the Defense Council in Russia’s upper house of parliament has declared.

http://europe.newsweek.com/russia-fears-nato-global-strike-eastern-europe-senator-466853?rm=eu

What stupidity!!  It would appear that the Russian's are aware that the media and general public does not realize that a defensive weapon system is not an offensive threat.  It is in the nature of the design.   Just more Russian propaganda for the uninformed.

[ML]

. . . a defensive weapon system is not an offensive threat.  It is in the nature of the design. 

I thought you could just flip a switch and defense would become offense, and vice versa.  But just avoid the 'reverse' setting.

[JayH]

Speaking several weeks ahead of a key NATO summit in Warsaw where the alliance will evaluate the two countries' membership prospects, Georgian Defense Minister Tina Khidasheli said that the United States has a strong interest in helping Georgia join NATO as a way of deterring Russia.

GEORGIAN, UKRAINIAN OFFICIALS PUSH FOR NATO MEMBERSHIP
 Senior officials from Georgia and Ukraine on Wednesday exhorted NATO members to bring the two nations into the alliance in order to protect them from Russia and cement ties with the West.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NATO_GEORGIA_UKRAINE?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[JayH]

A path is being followed !

Defense reform in Ukraine to be based on NATO standards

The document provides for the active participation in the implementation of the Common Security and Defense Policy of the European Union and active cooperation with NATO in the achievement of criteria necessary for the full membership in NATO.


http://www.unian.info/politics/1367522-defense-bulletin-defense-reform-in-ukraine-to-be-based-on-nato-standards.html

[JayH]

Many in NATO felt the alliance had become complacent in the years after the fall of Communism and was caught napping by the speed and effectiveness of Russia's intervention in Ukraine.


NATO demands Russia withdraw from Ukraine

Brussels (AFP) - NATO chief Jens Stoltenberg on Wednesday demanded that Russia withdraw its forces and military hardware from Ukraine, and halt its support for pro-Moscow separatists battling Kiev.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/nato-demands-russia-withdraw-forces-equipment-ukraine-091052496.html?nhp=1

[JayH]

All NATO countries are clearly not going to put up with the Russian occupation of Crimea "how to come true fact." On this, as reported by "Radio Liberty", said the chairman of the NATO Military Committee, Gen. Peter Paul.
l

NATO General: normal relations with Russia will not be until the restoration of the integrity of Ukraine

"NATO clearly declares the continued support of Ukraine in the political field, that is clearly stated that a return to normal relations with Russia will not be possible until the restoration of the territorial integrity of Ukraine in its current borders," - he said.


http://zn.ua/WORLD/general-nato-normalnyh-otnosheniy-s-rf-ne-budet-do-vosstanovleniya-celostnosti-ukrainy-216670_.html

[Darth_Budda]

NATO is useless.....
A huge waste of money....

A more international U.N. Controlled alliance should be formed...


NATO,, is basically a huge TAX. Applied to Poor citizens in those countries....
It is only used to enforce the will of larger more powerful countries. against smaller weak countries..
for corporate, capitalist and imperialist goals..

NATO is a Joke,, if we are to believe it is an alliance of equals with the goal of improving the lives of the people on earth..

NATO is a institution used by neo-Cons and neo -liberals to bypass the Democratic will of the citizens of it's member states...

NATO has no reason to exist...
They can't even destroy ISIS....
In fact several NATO members are openly supporting Religious extremists in Syria and Iraq..

I think if NATO "American and Europen Neo-Cons-Libs "  really wanted to help the Average Ukrainian...
They would help destroy the oligarch Class that is destroying the lives of normal working class people...

Let's be honest... They " Oligarchs and NATO " don't care about the average Ukrainian...
The oligarchs continue to steal from average citizens...
enriching their families wealth... while they ask poor Ukrainians to die....

NATO speaks words of support.... but in reality...
What has NATO done for Ukraine???

So the USA and UK sent them old military hardware.. 
That is not being used by it's own forces,, because they will not protect the soldiers..
But they look good for the camera... 


The only thing that NATO has done..
Is helped destroy life for the average working class person in Ukraine...
Destroying what little economic power they had...
While the economic power of the oligarchs has increased...

These same oligarchs who see their personal wealth increase...
are also the same people taking the loans from the IMF...
Placing the country further in debt.
A debt that the future generation of poor working class Ukrainians
will be forced to pay...

 






   

[Anotherkiwi]

I think if NATO "American and Europen Neo-Cons-Libs "  really wanted to help the Average Ukrainian...
They would help destroy the oligarch Class that is destroying the lives of normal working class people...

Let's be honest... They " Oligarchs and NATO " don't care about the average Ukrainian...
The oligarchs continue to steal from average citizens...
enriching their families wealth... while they ask poor Ukrainians to die....

NATO speaks words of support.... but in reality...
What has NATO done for Ukraine???

The only thing that NATO has done..
Is helped destroy life for the average working class person in Ukraine...
Destroying what little economic power they had...
While the economic power of the oligarchs has increased...

These same oligarchs who see their personal wealth increase...
are also the same people taking the loans from the IMF...
Placing the country further in debt.
A debt that the future generation of poor working class Ukrainians
will be forced to pay...

Darth, what have you been smoking?  While I agree that most of the oligarchs appear to have no love for the "common people," it seems a bit of a stretch to blame NATO for any of their ills.  Ukraine is not a member of NATO, and there is therefore no obligation on the organisation to do anything at all for Ukraine.  The fact that they HAVE provided some assistance should be something that's praised, not derided.

Could they do more?  Of course they could - if the individual member states voted to allow it.  However, your statement of "The only thing that NATO has done.. Is helped destroy life for the average working class person in Ukraine..." is utter nonsense.

Any and all destruction that has been wreaked upon Ukraine can be clearly laid at the feet of the Russian invaders.

[Darth_Budda]

No,,,

The oligarchs,, blame Russia,,,
Because it takes the blame away from them,,,
and puts money in their pocket..

each oligarch seems to control their own Militia or Mafia...
which in turn,, run all sorts of illegal activities...

Internet cam girls... Prostitutes...
Marriage agency scams...
Counterfeiting any thing they can...


Why do I place some blame on NATO and the EU? 

because they promised the world...
Encouraging the Neo-Con oligarchs.. to push for war...

The USA and NATO should be honest..

They should of told the rulers of Ukraine..
They will never be admitted to either NATO or the EU... " at least not until the country economy is turned in to Greece."




Who is pushing for war in Ukraine?

A small group of Neo-Nazi thugs...
With little support from normal people...
And western War Hawks...


Who does not want war?

The very young men... you would send to the grinder.

I can honestly say.. I just don't see the support for these wars..

most Russian people do not want war..
most American people do not want war.
most Ukrainian people do not want war..

it is a small group of very loud ultra nationalists.. pushing for war.. in all 3 camps..

Just because you scream... does not give you the authority to speak for all people..

[Marriedman]

NATO is just an organization to help USA and other foreign companies sell more military products. 

American company I work for sells the same under water defense (really attack) products to Saudia Arabia, USA, Turkey, Russia, and China.  Any American company can setup a company in Iceland and make / design in USA and ship to Iceland and into Russia no issue. 

Great business sell newest model to USA Navy and they always buy more than needed.  Then sell  better model to Russia, China, etc.  Then USA Navy buys upgrade.  We do majority of the imaging, wiring, small vehicle, sensing, guiding, software.  Business is booming right now.  Some real cool products. 

New Aircraft carrier the USA spent like $5 billion plus developing and making can be easily sunk with a $1M product we make now. Upgrade for USA Navy to protect it is $50M from this. Which will last 1 year as new products will make it obsolete.  Under water war technology is very interesting.  They even have global under water war conferences.

The USA should really stop investing in aircraft carriers and submarines as very expensive and obsolete. Easy to destroy them with technology in todays age. 

[calmissile]

NATO is just an organization to help USA and other foreign companies sell more military products. 

American company I work for sells the same under water defense (really attack) products to Saudia Arabia, USA, Turkey, Russia, and China.  Any American company can setup a company in Iceland and make / design in USA and ship to Iceland and into Russia no issue. 

Great business sell newest model to USA Navy and they always buy more than needed.  Then sell  better model to Russia, China, etc.  Then USA Navy buys upgrade.  We do majority of the imaging, wiring, small vehicle, sensing, guiding, software.  Business is booming right now.  Some real cool products. 

New Aircraft carrier the USA spent like $5 billion plus developing and making can be easily sunk with a $1M product we make now. Upgrade for USA Navy to protect it is $50M from this. Which will last 1 year as new products will make it obsolete.  Under water war technology is very interesting.  They even have global under water war conferences.

The USA should really stop investing in aircraft carriers and submarines as very expensive and obsolete. Easy to destroy them with technology in todays age.

Wow, five posts and your already sounding like a Russian troll.  Your Russian (like) comment about NATO is the first tip-off.  Typical anti-western propaganda.  Secondly, your illiterate comments about defense hardware are a dead giveaway as well.  A number of us on the forum have been in technical positions in the defense industry for many years.  It's easy to spot someone that doesn't have a clue what their talking about.  Hopefully, you will take your trolling elsewhere  before you reach post #10.

[fathertime]

Wow, five posts and your already sounding like a Russian troll.  Your Russian (like) comment about NATO is the first tip-off.  Typical anti-western propaganda.

What about what Trump said about NATO?  You chastise this guy, while Trump is getting your vote, but isn't he a Russian troll too?



On Saturday, as he did in an interview with The New York Times last week, Mr. Trump painted the organization as old and out of date.

“It was really designed for the Soviet Union, which doesn’t exist anymore,” Mr. Trump said. “It wasn’t designed for terrorism.”

“I said here’s the problem with NATO: it’s obsolete,” Mr. Trump said, recounting his comments.


Fathertime! 

[Hammer2722]

NATO is just an organization to help USA and other foreign companies sell more military products. 

American company I work for sells the same under water defense (really attack) products to Saudia Arabia, USA, Turkey, Russia, and China.  Any American company can setup a company in Iceland and make / design in USA and ship to Iceland and into Russia no issue. 

Great business sell newest model to USA Navy and they always buy more than needed.  Then sell  better model to Russia, China, etc.  Then USA Navy buys upgrade.  We do majority of the imaging, wiring, small vehicle, sensing, guiding, software.  Business is booming right now.  Some real cool products. 

New Aircraft carrier the USA spent like $5 billion plus developing and making can be easily sunk with a $1M product we make now. Upgrade for USA Navy to protect it is $50M from this. Which will last 1 year as new products will make it obsolete.  Under water war technology is very interesting.  They even have global under water war conferences.

The USA should really stop investing in aircraft carriers and submarines as very expensive and obsolete. Easy to destroy them with technology in todays age.

Nice grammar there Ivan. Where did you learn English? Moscow?