Relationship is on edge right now...How do I save it?

[Avatar72]

Hello everyone. I'm new to the board here and unfortunately my topic is not a positive one...but I need some advise or answers.
I'll make my question first and then briefly describe the situation.

What do you feel are the financial responsibilities of the husband when your Bride To Be arrives in the US?
Is he expected to pay for everything for the wife and child? Including leasing/buying her a car, paying for her re-education, daycare for child, gymnastics for daughter, hair appointments, manicures, all entertainment 100% of groceries etc.?

I imagine most people who marry immigrant wives cant do ALL of this. This shouldn't be a "for the wealthy" endeavor. I have money but so does she (more on that later).

My situation is this...Right now I've estimated to be putting in about 13K for everything from trips to see her, all Visa documentation, status changes, travel for her and her daughter to come here and some other short term costs.
Here's the rub...she's not rich but she does own an apartment which she is going to sell and probably get about 85K for....I asked her to help out for some longer term stuff, like some education/classes, helping with a car, new clothes for hot Texas weather., beauty stuff, whatever... I can't do everything. I have two kids myself I need to take care of and of course they come first.

she wants to save all of this money for her daughter for College/University (she turns 6 this month!). I simply asked her to put a portion aside for her own spending and put most of it into a education investment plan. real simple....she's having difficulty accepting this. I dont think she wants to pay a dime. She only wants to help financially after she finds a job which could be months for something low paying and years for something career related.

Am I out of line here? I think she should have some skin in the game. Our relationship and love is real otherwise. She's not a scammer. I asked her if she thought I was selfish or cheap. she said "no". BUT  she's coming off as selfish to me. I need some fairness here. i'm not asking her to pay 50%

Thoughts?

[jone]

Okay, imagine, six months from now, it doesn't work out.  She has moved to your country, and her only safety net is the money that she accumulated from the sale of her property.  She has liquidated everything to be with you.  It is safe to say, she probably will not be working right away.  My response to you is that you ARE responsible for everything until she gets her feet under her in a new country.

I can't believe you said that she doesn't have any skin in the game.  Put your thinking cap on.  She has ALL of her skin in the game.  She is leaving her home, liquidating everything she has, and getting on a plane to an unknown situation.  If I were her and we were having this conversation, you would be scaring the hell out of me.

Having said that, does she drive in her old home?  I would assume not, since she is not selling a car.  Get her a cheap car to begin with.  Understand that she will probably have an accident in the first two years here. 

What makes you think your kids come first?  You are marrying this woman.  You are writing like she is domestic help coming to clean your house in Texas.  Your job is to take care of your WHOLE family, not just the kids from your first marriage. 

There are SO many things that you haven't thought through.  Get yourself together.  I'm sure other forum members can elaborate on things to do to make the transition go smoothly, but, Remember!  Up till now is the easy part.  What happens over the next couple of years is the tough part. 

Oh, and that $13,000 you said you spent?  Well, that was OPPORTUNITY COST.  It has nothing to do with your future relationship.  FSUW expect their men to take care of them.  They will work their fingers to the bone to create a good life for their family.   Should you succeed in creating a family with this woman, at some time into the future, you might want to revisit her reserves from when she sold her apartment.  But right now, that money is and should remain hers.

[Larry1]

Other members will weigh in on your post, but you should be aware that $13,000 is very much on the low side for a fsuw search.

[2tallbill]

Am I out of line here? I think she should have some skin in the game. Our relationship and love is real otherwise. She's not a scammer. I asked her if she thought I was selfish or cheap. she said "no". BUT  she's coming off as selfish to me. I need some fairness here. i'm not asking her to pay 50%

Thoughts?

My thoughts are that you should have at least 45 to 50 conversations about this
before becoming engaged. It appears that you didn't do this until now. She doesn't
have any skin to put into the game. She is going to be 100% dependent on you for
quite a while. Whatever you do don't ask her about putting skin in the game.

She is leaving everything behind, everyone she knows and every safety net that
she knows. She has no backup plan, no fall back option. She is coming to you based
entirely on faith. 

I guarantee that she is scared. It's terrifying for her to do this. Your job is to tell her
that everything is going to be ok. She needs to be reassured, she needs to know that
you will swim the alligator filled moat and slay the dragons and protect her from
whatever happens.

I expect that 95% of the men here have provided 100% of everything. Some guys make
some serious money but others don't and need to prioritize things.

Now you need to get out some paper and pens and have a frank conversation.
Write everything down that needs to be done. Include everything. I did this at
least a dozen times with Angel Eyes. Explain how much money is available and
when it will be available. Keep some money in reserve for an emergency.

Tell her Rome wasn't built in a day but together that you can do anything.
Get her to buy into the plan that the two of you put together. She doesn't
know what she doesn't know.

There will be many more stressed filled conversations in the days to come
and when she arrives it will multiply ten fold. She needs reassured now and
many times in the future that everything will be ok. You won't live like oligarchs
but you will be ok.

Lastly the money you spent winning her heart is irrelevant. That's money that
you've spent, it would be silly for you to expect her to answer for it.

Udachi!

Bill

[fathertime]

 I have two kids myself I need to take care of and of course they come first.

Yeah, I'd agree with you here....I'd say the priorities are 1. your own kids 2. your new wife/child 3. yourself.

Here's the rub...she's not rich but she does own an apartment which she is going to sell and probably get about 85K for....I asked her to help out for some longer term stuff, like some education/classes, helping with a car, new clothes for hot Texas weather., beauty stuff, whatever... I can't do everything. I have two kids myself I need to take care of and of course they come first.

she wants to save all of this money for her daughter for College/University (she turns 6 this month!). I simply asked her to put a portion aside for her own spending and put most of it into a education investment plan. real simple....she's having difficulty accepting this. I dont think she wants to pay a dime. She only wants to help financially after she finds a job which could be months for something low paying and years for something career related.

Am I out of line here? I think she should have some skin in the game. Our relationship and love is real otherwise. She's not a scammer. I asked her if she thought I was selfish or cheap. she said "no". BUT  she's coming off as selfish to me. I need some fairness here. i'm not asking her to pay 50%

Thoughts?

I'd try to consider that she is making a big change in her own life and that 85k may be all she has ever had and may not have an easy time ever accumulating it again...  You mentioned that she is willing to help financially once she finds employment, that is good.  I think if it were me, I just wouldn't go too nuts on the spending in the first few months.  Buying some warm clothes  and beauty products is not a big deal.  I'd say an economical car is also on you, it goes with the territory sometimes.  You have to bet on the come more than you may like, but there are limits, and presumably she will be working as soon as is feasible, and then her pitching in is totally reasonable.


Fathertime! 

[2tallbill]

Other members will weigh in on your post, but you should be aware that $13,000 is very much on the low side for a fsuw search.

I spent at least ten times that amount.

[dragonkid]

I spent at least ten times that amount.

High class escorts, or have you got a sex drive and stamina of a 20 year old?

[Avatar72]

This is probably irrelevant but she does have a sister in the US. She has a family she can fall back on if it doesnt work out. Her sister is her best friend.
 Im a future tripper. I worry about these things.
Maybe i do need help with long term plans. But my kids education is important too.  My divorce is recent. I was stupid for starting this early but it is what it is now.

I have money in mutual funds. But to meet some people point here i cant liquidate everything for the same point of it possibly not working out.

[ML]

I spent at least ten times that amount.

Why were you so cheap then when we were dating ?

[jone]

I would amend my post.  FT does have a point.  While you are trying to create a new family, you must insure that your own children are taken care of... and to that point understand that she needs to take care of her daughter. 

I waited until my kids were out of school before I embarked on this endeavor.

[Avatar72]

I would amend my post.  FT does have a point.  While you are trying to create a new family, you must insure that your own children are taken care of... and to that point understand that she needs to take care of her daughter. 

I waited until my kids were out of school before I embarked on this endeavor.

Thank you for understanding. That was a little hard to absorb.
I sent her an appology. We're at the 5 month mark here. I visited her once already. I dont want to lose this.
I still need to make her understand this very point.

[jone]

My thoughts are that you should have at least 45 to 50 conversations about this
before becoming engaged. It appears that you didn't do this until now. She doesn't
have any skin to put into the game. She is going to be 100% dependent on you for
quite a while. Whatever you do don't ask her about putting skin in the game.

She is leaving everything behind, everyone she knows and every safety net that
she knows. She has no backup plan, no fall back option. She is coming to you based
entirely on faith. 

I guarantee that she is scared. It's terrifying for her to do this. Your job is to tell her
that everything is going to be ok. She needs to be reassured, she needs to know that
you will swim the alligator filled moat and slay the dragons and protect her from
whatever happens.

I expect that 95% of the men here have provided 100% of everything. Some guys make
some serious money but others don't and need to prioritize things.

Now you need to get out some paper and pens and have a frank conversation.
Write everything down that needs to be done. Include everything. I did this at
least a dozen times with Angel Eyes. Explain how much money is available and
when it will be available. Keep some money in reserve for an emergency.

Tell her Rome wasn't built in a day but together that you can do anything.
Get her to buy into the plan that the two of you put together. She doesn't
know what she doesn't know.

There will be many more stressed filled conversations in the days to come
and when she arrives it will multiply ten fold. She needs reassured now and
many times in the future that everything will be ok. You won't live like oligarchs
but you will be ok.

Lastly the money you spent winning her heart is irrelevant. That's money that
you've spent, it would be silly for you to expect her to answer for it.

Udachi!

Bill

Bill that was a fantastic post. 

[Boethius]

This is probably irrelevant but she does have a sister in the US. She has a family she can fall back on if it doesnt work out. Her sister is her best friend.
 Im a future tripper. I worry about these things.
Maybe i do need help with long term plans. But my kids education is important too.  My divorce is recent. I was stupid for starting this early but it is what it is now.

Even if she has a sister in the US, I assume you are required to sign an obligation on immigration that you will provide a minimum level of support, even if you separate. 

[BillyB]

I need to take care of and of course they come first.

You sound about as selfish as your wife. MY kids come first!

Life isn't always fair but if you're a man and want a family, you need to feed, house, and clothe everybody. If you can't provide, you don't deserve a family.

You need to pay for everything for your wife and daughter. You decided to marry a woman with a child. You chose the package deal and the package deal cost more.

Don't ask anything from your wife. Like others said, if things don't work out, she needs something to go back to. After a few years pass by when trust between you two is greater making the marriage solid, only then your and her money should be pooled together.

[jone]

Thank you for understanding. That was a little hard to absorb.
I sent her an appology. We're at the 5 month mark here. I visited her once already. I dont want to lose this.
I still need to make her understand this very point.

Do I understand that you have only visited her once?  My god man, go back over and spend some time getting to know her.  Until you have lived with someone, you will have no idea how you will mesh as a couple.  Please tell me you've spent more than a quick week in her company prior to your scheduling her to come to the US.

Bill was right.  You give her a clear understanding of your income and write down things she would want to know before she comes.  It should be written out so both of you know what to expect.

I think the cart is a little before the horse.  You say that you have just completed your divorce, yet here you are moving very quickly into a relationship that is much more complicated and unknown than that with an American woman.

Move slowly.

[Avatar72]

Do I understand that you have only visited her once?  My god man, go back over and spend some time getting to know her.  Until you have lived with someone, you will have no idea how you will mesh as a couple.  Please tell me you've spent more than a quick week in her company prior to your scheduling her to come to the US.

 Yes,  I've met her once.  I was already going down the path of meeting her again for an extended period of time.   But  nowhere do I say we are committed at this point.  We are not engaged nor have we filled out a k1 visa. Just because I talked about finances does not mean we are ready to get married.
She wants to get married but I haven't asked yet. She might have been a little worried I haven't asked... But she understands my need to hang out more.

[Apash]

You have to treat her child as they are yours. If you really love her. Russian women will be appreciate it and be grateful, because Russian men do not like  to care for children if they are not their own. Such men she could be found in Russia, why she will go so far, in the United States and to have such risks?

[oso]

i never understood a guy that puts a price tag on love.....

Yes, you should pay for everything! You like the way she looked.....The beauty maintenance should not even be a factor. If she feels beautiful and you show appreciation she will be happy.....and you know what the saying is about a happy wife.

She had a certain level of life before she came to the US.....you should at least maintain that level. She may not understand your home budget....As mentioned above, sit down with her and explain it. Ask for her to give input to fulfill all your family needs. Make her feel as if she matters and you are trying to work this out. These women are great in finding solutions to problems.

You have a young relationship here.....give it some time and learn to trust each other. When she feels more adjusted in her new life she will have no problems to roll up her sleeves to get the job done. She will pitch in and contribute.....it is just too early for her to do that yet.

Have some understanding for her....and show her! If you get past the little bumps and she starts to feel comfortable in her new life, she will amaze you. You will be the "head of the house" but she will be the neck that supports that head. You will notice changes....Your family will look and be the best...Your home will be beyond beautiful and you will be successful at your profession. All of this will give her status and shows others that she is a good woman that takes care of her family...So quit complaining how much this is costing you now.....treat it like an investment...it will come back to you a 100 fold. You are just not seeing the return yet on your new investment.

Her sister in the US is good for her....she has someone that she trust and can confide in....ask for advice....speak her native language with, and many other things.....

Try putting yourself in her shoes.....it is very difficult for her. By helping her, is actually helping yourself.....If she gets to unhappy your life will be miserable....

Best of luck to you...

[Apash]

  oso, you are right !! I agree with you! With your every word that you wrote! A man pays for all the period. Because he is a man! You and I have the same mentality, so we think alike. American men-other. Consider and calculate that it is more profitable. Price for love. A shame! Love has no price! You take the best women  of the country's, so be prepared to pay for it. You will have more from her. Her dedication, her care, her love, her gratitude. She will appreciate and respect you and all that you do for her! Her child will do the same. You will swim in the care and love. And all this you will give from your woman. How can we talk about the price? We need to appreciate what we have. Next a woman could be worse.))

[calmissile]

 Yes,  I've met her once.  I was already going down the path of meeting her again for an extended period of time.   But  nowhere do I say we are committed at this point.  We are not engaged nor have we filled out a k1 visa. Just because I talked about finances does not mean we are ready to get married.
She wants to get married but I haven't asked yet. She might have been a little worried I haven't asked... But she understands my need to hang out more.

Avatar 72,

I am planning on responding to your thread only once.  I do not desire to get into the pissing contests over who's advice is the best.  Some points I think worthy of you consideration:

1.  I think you, like many of us are swept into a fantasy about marrying a foreign bride quickly and your emotional and psychological needs are going to be met soon and life will be a bowl of cherries.

2.  Most marriages (foreign or domestic) either do not happen or end in tragedy for both parties soon later.

3.  You are in a special circumstance that takes even more reasoning and thought than the average bride seeker.   You have children which are your primary responsibility.  A potential marriage is going to have an impact on YOUR children as well as hers.  There is a huge amount of interaction and deep discussions that need to happen between you two before either of you should enter into a marriage.  If everything is perfect, then clearly I think a 2 parent family is preferable to two single parent families.  Nevertheless, it takes a huge amount of interaction between you and your prospective wife concerning not only finances, but raising the children that needs to be fully discussed before any union should be considered.

4.  The financial burden is much greater than most on the forum will admit.  My recent estimates arrived at between $50-,000 to $75,000 expenditures since the beginning of my search until the present status of being happily married to a Ukraine women.  This included one failed engagement and many trips to Ukraine.

5.  Even after all the due diligence, there is no guarantee that once she (and her children) arrive in America, she will be comfortable in her new surroundings and culture.  We have some close friends that went through this process and decided to separate soon after arriving in the USA.  You will not know the answer to this until it actually happens.

6.  There are gong to be MANY surprises after she arrives!  The biggest one, which probably started long  before she arrived; is the language barrier.  I have changed my earlier opinions made on old posts on this topic.  We got by with electronic translators and a forum member that we could trust (now deceased) to translate important discussions between us.  We were lucky to have found a forum member we could trust to discuss our most private conversations with.  You are gong to find  yourself in this same dilemma.  What you thought about the future and shared finances are not anything like what is in your finace's mind!   It is no different in this respect, than chasing an American woman.  You want to resolve all of these issues before you get married, yet you can't do so without direct communications and unambiguous understanding of all of the issues.  It should be no different with a FSUW.

7.Since you both have children, it is most important that you take the time to investigate and understand the Ukraine culture and it's impact on the mothers role and attitude toward her own children.  I am probably not exaggerating too much to say that a FSUW would lay down in the road to protect her children from a threat.  In order to maintain a balance of attention the children, the two of you will need to have extensive conversations about who is the disciplinarian, and how you are going to make a level playing field for the children to feel loved by both parents.

8.  The personalities of both of you are paramont in determining whether a marriage will last beyond a few months at best.  I am extremely fortunate.  My FSU wife has one of the best FSU personalities of anyone I met in Ukraine.  In spite of our language barriers early on, we both are able to joke and laugh at ourselves and each other and maintain harmony in our home.  You may find that this happy-go-lucky personality is not the norm for FSUW.  In my opinion it has a lot to do with the age of the women.

9.  The cost for language training for a FSUW can be much larger than you might expect.  I am sure that others here have found more cost effective solutions, but let me describe our experience....   My wife enrolled in an adult education ESL class (English Second Language) about 2 years ago.  The class is inexpensive and she attended two nights a week.  The class is mostly Mexicans wanting to learn English, but there is a sprinkling of other nationalities in the class as well.  After two years in this class, I came to the conclusion that I will be dead before she will become fluent in English.  She has all the nice graduation certificates, etc for each level but as far as I was concerned the classes are a rip off, even though they are very inexpensive.  I guess there is truth to the phrase that "You get what you pay for".

We consulted one of my wife's new girlfriends in the community (a physician) that told us when she came to the USA on a Student Visa, she had to take a concentrated English Language Program at the university and pass the TOEFL exam before she could enroll in the medical school.  We investigated and found the program at UC San Bernardino.  It was exactly what she had described.  There are about 6 levels of the class and each level is a quarter of the academic year.  Assuming worse case, it means going to college for a year and one half before you can enroll in regular college classes.  Fortunately, she was entered at level 2 and has a 'A' grade and will be entering level 3 for the summer session.  What is crazy about our college programs is that it costs about $3500 - $3800 for each QUARTER for the classes.  The only reason I bring this up is because the expense of learning English well enough to become gainfully employed might be much more than one would anticipate early on.  For some, it might not be that important.  My wife plans to reenter a professional career and needs to become fluent in English as well as to get her master degrees recognized.  No doubt she will need to take additional classes to make that happen.

10.  The issue now, is that you are infatuated with the idea of having a beautiful FSUW as your wife.   I don't know how many men fail in this dream, but I can tell you from experience;  if you have a great deal of determination, drive, financial resources, and a good stock of common sense, you might be one of the fortunate ones to pull it off successfully.    I have never been happier in my life.  I feel very lucky.  My wife and stepdaughter are my life!  I am also not insecure.  My wife has many friends on the forum and we sometimes chat in the chat room and also have fantastic Skype sessions with up to 6-8 members at a time.  Making friends with PM's and moving offline can result in making friendships that can last a lifetime.

11.  You came to the right place to inquire, now you need to do some self reflection and decide if your up to the task!   

[oso]

Wonderful post Doug ^^^^^

To the OP, I would like to throw in a few more ideas or comments.

Your wife right now is very scared, and probably does not see the brightness in her future. There are little things that can help merge your families into a happy unit. Yes, your kids come first.

Sometimes talk is exactly that...talk. Show her how special she is....She had to be special for you to travel to the other side of the world to find her....Let her know that....make her feel that.

Have you come home from work and brought your new step-daughter a soft stuffed animal just for her to cuddle with?(5 bucks at Kmart) and not bring home something for your own kids.....that will also score big points. Try downloading Masha and the Bear cartoons for her daughter in native language....another big score

Start a college fund for all the children. Start with a minunim and put 10 bucks a month in each of accounts (the cost of two 12 packs).....Actions speak louder than words, another big score

I agree with Doug about the language issues and the misunderstandings that can arise. Why put all the changes on her....Why don't you try to learn her language....you will score big points

This endeavor is not all up to her to change...you have to change also. Think of it as she landed on a new planet...You have to help her with EVERYTHING because she doesn't know life in Texas as you do.

She is a real person that gave up everything to be with you. She is not a puppy that you kick outside for peeing on the carpet. Show her that bright future....

I am telling you this from my own experience.....I gave up everything to live with my wife in Ukraine.
At first it was pure hell for me, and many times I had my bags packed ready to go home. I didn't know the language, I didn't know how to shop, I didn't know how to use transportation....I didn't know $hit and I was home-sick. She also did everything in her power to make me feel comfortable and a part of her family. I am glad I stuck it out I have been here just past a couple of years and life is great Also just a side note: My wife pays for EVERYTHING and won't allow me to spend USD's. She pays for language lessons, food, entertainment, travel, my international phone card, my health insurance and makes sure my wallet has UAH in it.....She does this for me, because of the love and commitment she has for our relationship and never once did she ever say "this cost XXX dollars"

[msmobyone]

High class escorts, or have you got a sex drive and stamina of a 20 year old?

DK once again demonstrates he has no experience of bringing a FSU and extended family or the costs involved...

[dragonkid]

DK once again demonstrates he has no experience of bringing a FSU and extended family or the costs involved...

You are one grumpy sod, are you sure you are british? Never heard of banter?

[Faux Pas]

 Yes,  I've met her once.  I was already going down the path of meeting her again for an extended period of time.   But  nowhere do I say we are committed at this point.  We are not engaged nor have we filled out a k1 visa. Just because I talked about finances does not mean we are ready to get married.
She wants to get married but I haven't asked yet. She might have been a little worried I haven't asked... But she understands my need to hang out more.

That's a relief. It previously sounded as if you were already going the K-1 route and she was on her way.

1 - Slow way da'fcvk down.  You seem to be counting the dollars as an investment. I'll dispense some investment advice. You need to invest $13K in a few more trips to get to know this lady. I would recommend you get to know the child as well. You "might" not like either one of them. After one trip you can't possibly know one way or the other.

2 - Yes, you are expected to pay for everything for both woman and child. Everything. Leave her money alone. Don't question it, don't think about it and certainly don't count on using it to finance your marriage or her assimilation to her new country. When it's time and you have proven to be a good worthy husband she might hand it over to you.

3 - Is this venture exclusively for the wealthy? No, I am proof of that but make no mistake. It is very expensive. The money you spend during the courting and dating process doesn't even begin to scratch the surface. $13K is nothing and if you are lucky will represent maybe 25% of your initial expenses. A woman and another child inserted into your household is expensive. Count on it and prepare for it or back away now. Money is just a tool to accomplish. Some need $20K, some need $100K. How much you need is determined by your own personal path. However, keep in mind, nothing about marrying a foreign woman is to be done on the cheap and you are on the hook for everything.

[2tallbill]

 Yes,  I've met her once.  I was already going down the path of meeting her again for an extended period of time.   But  nowhere do I say we are committed at this point.  We are not engaged nor have we filled out a k1 visa. Just because I talked about finances does not mean we are ready to get married.
She wants to get married but I haven't asked yet. She might have been a little worried I haven't asked... But she understands my need to hang out more.

I misunderstood your OP. I was under the impression that she was arriving any day.

So as I now understand it you've visited her, consider her an excellent candidate for
marriage and are now getting to know her better. You need to have a conversation
about every topic under the sun. You want to know her opinion on everything from
what goes into the refrigerator vs the cabinets to best temperature for sleeping, to
who empties the garbage, to what clothes get ironed and which ones don't need it
to how children are disciplined, to how much money to save for a rainy day and
what constitutes a rainy day.

You need to know her opinion on
The rules are on arguing,
What is the optimal sex frequency?   
What are the rules on personal space?
What things are husbands forbidden to do?
How does the husband discipline her child when she is elsewhere
What are her dreams?
What are her expectations?
What would she want to do if you won the lottery?
What if the lottery win was only $50K?
Does anybody else in her family rely on her? what will they do if she moves to
be with you?
What will you use for birth control?
What jobs around the house are you expected to do?
What is she expected to do?
What is her opinion on the grooming of the bikini area? what about your bikini area?
Is she ticklish?
What food does she hate?
What are her pet peeves?
Does she want pets? a catbox?
Which hand does she masturbate with?
What about a garden? who tends it?
What are chores that children should do?
Whats her favorite thing to do after sex? before?
Does she want more children? how many? how far apart?
What people does she find annoying?
What bothers her at work? at home?
What side of the bed does she like to sleep on?
What is the best temperature for sleep?
What does she like to wear to bed?
What scares her?
Does she cry during movies? what kind? when was the last time?
These questions are just the tip of the iceberg. You get the idea.

Lastly schedule a trip soon to see her again. This is an exciting time, talk to her on
Skype every day.


Udachi!

Bill