WMVM Love by conveyor???

[2tallbill]

I have seen many arguements regarding the WMVM approach vs other approaches. Unfortuanately I have also seen a number of trip reports hijacked to argue this point. I have started this thread to argue the various merits and demerits of the  WMVM approach.

Bill

[DKMM]

Having just come back from one, I actually do not support the WMVM approach.  I think the WFVF with few being 2 or 3 is the best way to go.  Just based on my own experiences.

[WmGO]

Let me quote myself from the other thread: WM need to quit judging other WM over their differing methods and strategies for meeting FSUW.

To do so is illogical.  There are as many different ways for a WM to go about pursuing FSUW relationships as there are people. Everyone is different. WM should just offer encouragement, not judgment. If that is all a WM is going to get, why should he post anything about anything that he is up to re FSUW???

[I/O]

WmGO: I think for the first time I have seen someone come close to the mark with your comment about NOT posting what a guy is up to with women.  You know there is an old saying, "Discretion is the better part of valour" and I'm afraid I see a distinct lack of that discretion in far too many trip reports.

It is in fact numbers on a conveyor for many.  That's their choice, but is surely does amuse me how many get their "Knickers in a twist" when someone comes out and points out that many of the "Decent" women don't like it.

If one is going to date/meet, whatever you like to call it, a number of women, then the good sense thing is to shut up about the fact and just get on and do it.  A goodly number of these trip reports are NOT enhancing the reputation of western guys at all. 

Of course any decent woman who attracts the attention of a foreign suitor is not likely to be short of male attention at home, but how many of them do you see spruking it all over the internet or some other public information medium?

"Discretion is the better part of valour".  If you don't want to be judged, don't say it.

I/O

[Daveman]

If I ever have to do the search thing again, and I hope I don't, and if I were to decide to go the FSU route again, I will pick a cool city I want to visit and just go hang out there for a while and meet and 'date'. 

I see no real need for me to give a play by play of each woman in a t/r. I will know if we hit it off or not and will quietly continue the search until I find what I'm looking for.  I might mention "Hey, I met a great girl.. sheesh, it took me 3,864,357 tries to find her, but she's wonderful and worth it - here's how I met her..."

I think play by play approach in the t/r's is what gives the conveyor belt impression. It doesn't bother me if others write that way because it can be very interesting reading.  It's just not my style.

I'm not much for the WMVM approach, but to just go to a city and date different ladies would be fine with me.

Dave

[Lily]

I don't think the word 'love' is appropriate in the heading. No love here. Just personal introductions.

One very blatant way of conveyer-like personal introduction is shown in the movie 'Hitch' (2005), when single men rotate through the tables occupied by single women. I guess the scene might even be the climax of the movie. The interaction of prospects across the tables looks really unnatural and pathetic. I have no idea about how popular are such arrangements in the U.S. in real. 

The WMVM appears to be a rather mild form of introduction, when at least the women prospects are not in obvious visible competition. On the other hand, a woman can also arrange her vacations in some nice european town and combine sightseeing with arranging personal meetings with some men whom she has met online during last months. A woman can do it, too. Of course, in this case she will have a burden of arrangements and tactful manoevering between the men, who'd probably think that she came for him only..

[groovlstk]

When I started my search I was meeting one woman at a time, when I didn't find success I changed my strategy to meet multiple women each trip, only to change yet again on the fateful trip when I met my wife. It's been said many times before, but each man has to decide what method(s) he's most comfortable with.

In my mind, regardless of what approach a guy chooses, the most important thing is that he accepts the consequences of his decision. If he commits to visiting a single woman, he'd better know that despite six months of emails and phone calls the relationship can fall apart 10 minutes into the first meeting. If this happens, he's stuck in what's probably an inhospitable city (by Western standards), friendless, and without a plan. Or his babe might not be interested in him at all but in her vanity she refuses to release him until the morning he's ready to return home, thus blowing any chance he has of meeting anyone else. Given that he's maybe got three weeks of vacation each year, is this a risk he's ready to take if he hopes to find a wife sometime in the next decade?

Similarly, the WMVM guy faces his own debacles. He spends time between dates wondering if the previous girl he met was simply tired or disinterested in him. He makes decisions by the seat of his pants, always the clock is ticking towards the next date and he runs the risk of alienating the woman of his dreams because in the back of his mind he's always thinking that maybe the next one is even better. The biggest danger of WMVM, I believe (outside of being nibbled to death by the AD harpies), is feeling like a kid in a candy store or, even worse, becoming a monstrous loser of excess like Winny Wu. I've met a few guys who seem stuck in the WMVM pattern, they chuck seemingly good women aside for the most mundane reasons, always moving on to the next.

[Kuna]

Excellent post Groov...

[Leslie]

My own experience concurs with your comment Groov,

"The biggest danger of WMVM, I believe (snip), is feeling like a kid in a candy store"

Once a guy has learnt to date in FSU he needs to stay focused.  It is all to easy to drift from one good looking girl to the next if you don't know what you are looking for.  You can get to enjoy just dating.  If your current squeeze gets awkward she is soon replaced.  No worries.  Commitment?  No chance ! Years slip by...

[ScottinCrimea]

groov, you nailed it!

[Nat]

A goodly number of these trip reports are NOT enhancing the reputation of western guys at all. 

I think all kinds of posts should be posted (if they don’t violate others’ rights containing unwanted pictures, others’ personal info, insults and so on, of course). All the posts help to understand the essence of the international dating. And it’s very good that we have an opportunity to read not only about WOVO (or WFVF) men and their gentlemen behavior, but about all kings of men, their attitudes, comments on the process and so on. It’s really valuable for those women who are going to participate, because they can understand which types of attitudes they can face during the process and be ready to decline or accept them.
As for the reputation, can it really suffer? Don’t forget, that each person has his/her own terms of “acceptable” and “not acceptable”.

[I/O]

As for the reputation, can it really suffer? Don’t forget, that each person has his/her own terms of “acceptable” and “not acceptable”.

Rather too liberal for my taste.  "Don't forget", there is also that little thing called "Common Decency" which we see sadly missing in a current trip report.

I/O

[Kuna]

Rather too liberal for my taste.  "Don't forget", there is also that little thing called "Common Decency" which we see sadly missing in a current trip report.

I/O

I/O,

We agree on the current trip report but I think what Nat is saying is that she'd rather see the full spectrum of TR's and differing behaviours so she's not only seeing the glossy stuff.

One would hope only decent men go to FSU to meet his future bride but of course that isn't true.

On one hand I really don't like trash posted in here... but then again at least some ladies will see that they should be very cautious when dating a Western Man.

I think the best thing we can do (members) is take those acting inappropriately to task when they brag about their bad behaviour.

Kuna

[ScottinCrimea]

But then it all boils down to each individual's definition of bad behavior, and what we are seeing here is that there is a wide specrtum on this board, both on the defintions of bad behavior by the man and by the woman.  In some cases we see a double standard displayed.  What many men here consider perfectly appropriate for them they would not tolerate in the woman and vis versa.

[Sohkay]

So, let me ask a question. When you have some experience under your belt in this pursuit, and someone posts information on themselves that you believe will either hinder them in their search or pose a threat to their relationship happiness, should you speak up if you see this? Or, should you just read it, not comment and just make sure you aren't making the same mistake. Doesn't the latter approach reduce the potential good that can come from this forum?

One more question...what percentage of the posts at RWD do you believe are less than truthful, whether it is someone feeding posts to the board, someone who just wants to write a romantic fantasy,
or any number of other lies.

My guess is 10%.

[Nat]

We agree on the current trip report but I think what Nat is saying is that she'd rather see the full spectrum of TR's and differing behaviours so she's not only seeing the glossy stuff.

Yep, absolutely true. If I wanted to say something about Pike's topic, I'd write it in that topic But I'm saying it in general about all the topics on this forum, which can seem not very correct, but still are very informational.

[catzenmouse]

So, let me ask a question. When you have some experience under your belt in this pursuit, and someone posts information on themselves that you believe will either hinder them in their search or pose a threat to their relationship happiness, should you speak up if you see this? Or, should you just read it, not comment and just make sure you aren't making the same mistake. Doesn't the latter approach reduce the potential good that can come from this forum?

I believe that you have to speak up and refute the BS. Of course quite often that makes you a bad guy and a big meanie (which I seem to be quite good at lately... ??? ). RWD will have no value if it is filled with half truths and idiotic rubbish.

One more question...what percentage of the posts at RWD do you believe are less than truthful, whether it is someone feeding posts to the board, someone who just wants to write a romantic fantasy,
or any number of other lies.

My guess is 10%.

That may be a reasonable figure for all the posts but it seems that there are times where the inmates take over the asylum and the guards get tired of jumping from thread to thread trying to lock them back up again. We've got a few here who remind me of the neighbors dog who just comes around to crap on your lawn then they go back to hide under the shed again. And there are also times where I just don't know if it is worth trying to keep some  people from stepping in their own $hit.

Ken

[Nat]

So, let me ask a question. When you have some experience under your belt in this pursuit, and someone posts information on themselves that you believe will either hinder them in their search or pose a threat to their relationship happiness, should you speak up if you see this? Or, should you just read it, not comment and just make sure you aren't making the same mistake. Doesn't the latter approach reduce the potential good that can come from this forum?

Very wise remark, Sohkay. But I can’t help being nasty here Well, imagine there is Mister X and Mister Y on the forum. Mister X visited one and got married, Mister Y visited many and got married. Both believe that the opposite behavior “hinder them in their search or pose a threat to their relationship happiness”. How much use would it be if they simultaneously decided to persuaded a newbie that only their way is correct?
Well, I'm not saying that there is no use of giving advices and sharing your own experience, visa versa, but may be only marital status and it's term (I mean, how many years is the person happily married already) can prove that he actually chose the right way and his advices are really worth listening.

[Jet]

And there are also times where I just don't know if it is worth trying to keep some  people from stepping in their own $hit.

Well, at least I'm not alone  :selfharm:

[Jet]

Mister X visited one and got married, Mister Y visited many and got married. Both believe that the opposite behavior “hinder them in their search or pose a threat to their relationship happiness”. How much use would it be if they simultaneously decided to persuaded a newbie that only their way is correct?

It's been brought up often enough that one should take the opinion they find valuable and leave the rest behind. If we look at your scenario, the guy can see that both methods work, so really it is his choice to use the method he is most comfortable with. (FWIW there are a few of us who went to visit and marry one, but generally advise the other method now  )

Sohkay's question is valid. I am usually the type to speak up, phrasing it as respectfully as I can, but I also fully understand that the person who initially posted the scary info is more likely to do whatever they originally planned rather than listen to what I tell them. Most who post the scary stuff are not really looking for advice or opinion, but rather validation or sympathy.

[WmGO]

WmGO: I think for the first time I have seen someone come close to the mark with your comment about NOT posting what a guy is up to with women.  You know there is an old saying, "Discretion is the better part of valour" and I'm afraid I see a distinct lack of that discretion in far too many trip reports.

I/O - agree completely. That is why you will never see me post any details about myself or my FSU activity. Just isn't my style, don't think it is wise, and really don't care what other people think anyways. However, re: judging I generally agree BUT *not* when it comes to *methodology* for simply meeting FSUW. In all seriousness, it is really silly for WM to do so.

Groov, you hit the nail on the head for the whole *methodology* issue. Good post. Let each man digest it and proceed according to his own desires, preferences and risk assessments.

I don't think the word 'love' is appropriate in the heading. No love here. Just personal introductions....The WMVM appears to be a rather mild form of introduction...

Good observation Lily.

I think all kinds of posts should be posted (if they don’t violate others’ rights containing unwanted pictures, others’ personal info, insults and so on, of course). All the posts help to understand the essence of the international dating. And it’s very good that we have an opportunity to read not only about WOVO (or WFVF) men and their gentlemen behavior, but about all kings of men, their attitudes, comments on the process and so on. It’s really valuable for those women who are going to participate, because they can understand which types of attitudes they can face during the process and be ready to decline or accept them.
As for the reputation, can it really suffer? Don’t forget, that each person has his/her own terms of “acceptable” and “not acceptable”.

Good points Nat.

When you have some experience under your belt in this pursuit, and someone posts information on themselves that you believe will either hinder them in their search or pose a threat to their relationship happiness, should you speak up if you see this? Or, should you just read it, not comment and just make sure you aren't making the same mistake. Doesn't the latter approach reduce the potential good that can come from this forum?

Agree 100% Sohkay, but not as it relates to *methodology* (WOVO vs. WFVF vs. WMVM vs. ads vs. socials, etc.).

Very wise remark, Sohkay....But....[h]ow much use would it be if they simultaneously decided to persuaded a newbie that only their way is correct?  

Exactly Nat.

Peace be unto Everyone!!

[ScottinCrimea]

We all agree that there are many methods that can be used to meet RW.  I disagree that there shouldn't be criticisms of methodology because all methods have their flaws.  Only by reading the ciriticisms can a newbie make an educated decision about what will work best for him or someone with experience figure out why one way isn't working for him.

[2tallbill]

We all agree that there are many methods that can be used to meet RW.  I disagree that there shouldn't be criticisms of methodology because all methods have their flaws.  Only by reading the ciriticisms can a newbie make an educated decision about what will work best for him or someone with experience figure out why one way isn't working for him.

I agree Scott there are a million ways to meet a woman RW or otherwise. My Father jumped into the backseat of my Mothers car (she still tells everyone she should have locked her doors) I met my ex wife at a garage sale. (I wished I just bought the skis). You can meet a woman, at church, in a bar, in a line in a grocery store, through friends, on the internet, through a meeting with an agency really a million different ways. So for anyone out there I am not saying that if you jump in the backseat of a woman's car you will find your wife of several decades like my Dad did. (You might get tazered and maced). What I am saying is that a guy has to make his way through this in his own way.

I think this board can be helpful by saying hey maybe you can try this, or pointing out various ideas for another member.

Just my two kopecks

Bill

PS how do you spell tazer it doesn't look right

[Mir]

Taser

[WmGO]

I disagree that there shouldn't be criticisms of methodology because all methods have their flaws.  Only by reading the ciriticisms can a newbie make an educated decision about what will work best for him or someone with experience figure out why one way isn't working for him.

There is NO problem with discussing/analyzing/assessing/evalutating methodlogy for meeting FSUW. That is good and wise to do for the reason that you mentioned.

There *is* a problem with condemning in a judgmental way methodology. It is illogical to do so because there is no "best" or "only right" way, in addition to the even worse error of someone subtly suggesting that there is only one *morally* correct way, i.e. "WOVO is the only moral way" and "WMVM is immoral". Too many people do that - in addition to arrogantly and close mindedly claiming their way is the "best" and "only" right way.