How to Visit Many without lying?

[Donna_Pedro]

Sorry, I have not read the 101 lately. I will go back and read it again.  I would love to see one of these RW sites.  This one girl does seem like she’s going by some sort of playbook. I wouldn’t be surprised if she is in one of these FB groups.

Thanks

 This is indeed a basic  rule of thumb.  THese girls might not be rocket scientists, but they are mostly very street smart. See, none of you even  suspects them of being desperate. But they are. Everybody in the situation like that would be desperate. And no, You can  not see these  RW FB groups. THey do not accept men. Thats the whole point of them - to be able to discuss things in private.

[krimster2]

the fact that you feel you need to rely on someone else's "desperation" as a tactic for your search
tells us, that the person who is truly desperate is YOU

based on your track record
something more than desperation is called for here

but you go ahead and spend effort on finding which social media is right for you
i'm sure once you get that one detail established
this'll all immediately turn around for you
good job

[Trenchcoat]

 This is indeed a basic  rule of thumb.  THese girls might not be rocket scientists, but they are mostly very street smart. See, none of you even  suspects them of being desperate. But they are. Everybody in the situation like that would be desperate. And no, You can  not see these  RW FB groups. THey do not accept men. Thats the whole point of them - to be able to discuss things in private.

Hmmm... yeah sounds about right, lol. I wouldn't of course say it for all FSW but for girls like BB states if they seem to be 'going by some sort of playbook' then be real cautious. Not really necessarily talking outright scammers here, they are normally easy to spot but girls willing to play the longer game to see what they can get. Girls like you say Donna that are street smart in that they try to play guys for what they can get. Some can play the game very well and won't be obvious and seem much like the more sincere girls. I would only love to see the inside track on those FB pages, lol though of course can't. I feel it is bad that these girls have been playing WM for fools for years with them unwittingly walking into these situations. Despite differences of opinion there may be with other members some of your contributions are most helpful to us Donna, so thank you for that

[ML]

. . . aren't serious and only looking for sex.

But what if you are seriously looking for sex ??

[msmob]

Moby ridicules Mamba, the place he found his soon to be wife on, simply because he likes disagreeing with me.

Silly BillyB - repeating stuff I've NEVER said proves your 'worth' as a 'reliable' observer..

1/ I  found an ancient, unused profile on Mamba of my fiancee on mamba.ru.. she stopped using it, because of the responses she got .." not serious men"

2/ This was nearly SIX years ago - your experience is nearly a DECADE old

3/ I do not know any of SC's acquaintances that would 'recommend' mamba.ru

4/ When where you last in the FSU and could you 'video-chat' / hold a conversation with an  RU speaking lass?  .

Thank you, over and out !

[rwd123]

But what if you are seriously looking for sex ??

One word - mamba. 

[brownbeard99]

Okay, so things are looking up with my pending trip. I don’t have to worry about the “visit two” thing. The one girl who is practically falling in love with me couldn’t get off work, so she wants to wait in January where she has already planned to take a whole week off.

The other savvy girl now takes the pole position for this trip. She offered to meet me at the airport and I agreed.  She has been a little more available and will video chat and text me every day, but she still acts pretty “busy”. I feel that she really likes me, but isn’t completely sold on me. I casually asked her if she wants to also spend my second day in Ukraine together if we hit it off, and she said “Of course!”

It is unpoken, but clear that I have other plans while I am there and that I will gladly change them if we have a connection.  Based on reading other people’s experiences, I don’t want a situation where she spends the whole week with me out of obligation.  I also don’t want her to be tempted to string me along for days.  She previously told me she will know if she feels a strong enough connection within five hours.  Well, I’m giving her two days (if it is clear there is no chemistry on day one, I will cut her loose)

I am doing a little preparation for my back up “VM” dates if this doesn’t go well.  I have written a handful of ladies and just told them I will be in town and was curious if they would want to meet if I have some free time.  I’m not trying to build much rapport with them, other than permission to call them.  Im hoping to build a big enough list where it won’t be too difficult to secure a couple dates if my VO doesn’t work out.

Emotionally, I need some tentative backup dates for this trip.  There is something about this girl that makes me weak in the knees (I’m not showing her my cards).  She digs my confidence (I save my insecurities for this forum).  If I know I have a plan B, I can maintain a higher level of confidence and I won’t act desperate. I need to be able to easily walk away if she tries to toy with me.

In general, I’m feeling a lot of similarities to online dating in the US. The big difference is I feel like so much effort, time and money is riding on a single date.  At home, I never get nervous about a date... the next girl is just a call or a click away... but I feel a lot more pressure when there is so much involved (logistically) for a single date.  Hopefully I will get used to is after a couple trips.... Even better, maybe I’ll meet the right girl sooner rather than later.

[BillyB]

She previously told me she will know if she feels a strong enough connection within five hours. 

It's good she's honest with you. Most guys don't know how fast they could be dumped when they plan to visit a woman for a week or so. Contrary to popular belief that many women are desperate to get out, women there want to find a man they're comfortable and can fall in love with.

I’m giving her two days (if it is clear there is no chemistry on day one, I will cut her loose)

Good policy. Many guys go over there thinking things will end happily ever after. The girl they visit has a bad attitude and takes them shopping often. They refuse to cut the girl loose thinking love will solve all the problems.

I feel a lot more pressure when there is so much involved (logistically) for a single date.

A lot of time, emotions and money is invested before a first date. Many men feel pressure to make something out of a visit to a woman. Don't bend to pressure. You can't make something out of nothing if there's nothing's there.

maybe I’ll meet the right girl sooner rather than later.

An above average, decent guy should have 100% success in this endeavor. It's easy to beat your competition from what I've seen. You may not have success on the first or second trip but it will happen eventually as long as you avoid marrying the wrong girl.

[GQBlues]

Good luck B.B.! I hope you have a nice trip and things work out for both you and the gal.

For someone who have options at home like you, I can’t help but depart with the same sage advice given to me at the same stage you’re at right now.

Tear up your ticket and forget the whole FSU adventure. The MOB isn’t cut for guys like you. Wise words from an old member named ‘jb’.

 

[brownbeard99]

Tear up your ticket and forget the whole FSU adventure. The MOB isn’t cut for guys like you. Wise words from an old member named ‘jb’.

 

Well, your advice is a little deflating, but noted nevertheless.  Maybe I will look back later and wish I took your advice... but some mistakes, a man just has to make for himself.  I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.

I’m not ready to give up before I begin, but I can recognize a losing proposition before long.  Yes, this is an expensive hobby, but it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse... (this is a generalization, please don’t fact check prices, people).

So... I would still appreciate date planning. Typically, I plan my dates, but does anyone here defer to the girl if running around Kiev for a day or two?  After all, I have never been there... but I don’t want to end up on a shopping excursion...

[Davo2]

Brown beard,

Sign up to dmnotify, it's free to join, view the forum and profiles, but you have to pay a monthly fee like local sites to chat.

When you've done that, click the link below. It's a discussion regarding beards. There's many replies from Russian and Ukrainian women.

You can spend days reading the forum. It's one of the best resources I've found so far. There's 100's of FSU women giving their thoughts on many of the questions we ask here and lots of other topics. It's interesting to hear their perspective, thoughts and concerns in  regards to dating foreign men.

It's worthwhile paying the modest fee also. I've found it as good as fdating to meet genuine women.

http://forumhelp.me/social/view_comments/264985e656dfb929d79e6ec0ec2eeba2_1535359885

[krimster2]

ohhhh man

Thanks for the link, amusing to read

these wimmin(?) are "totally" playing you guys...
you guys can't "read through the dialog"?

I am so glad I am "Old Skool"
the kind of person who if he wants to go hunting
takes the old Remington out of the gun safe and drives out to the hills
instead of Playing "Big Game Hunter II" for XBox and THINKING you're a hunter
that ain't hunting Boy!

you're just a VIRTUAL man
instead of being a REAL man

ladies, accept no substitute for the REAL thing (don't worry - they already know!)

[Donna_Pedro]

 The girl they visit has a bad attitude and takes them shopping often.

what is a bad attitude? Why shopping is in the same sentence with bad attitude?

[Donna_Pedro]

The other savvy girl now takes the pole position for this trip. She offered to meet me at the airport and I agreed.  She has been a little more available and will video chat and text me every day, but she still acts pretty “busy”.

Interesting.. one of my friends in Russia does it to me.  We are not romantically involved obviousely. She talks a lot how she misses me not being there, but  whenever I tell her I am coming to visit,  she is busy all of a sudden, can not take a single day off work to hang out with me. The game is called "Dont think you are so important just because you show up  from America". I like this game. I  know the rules and I am good at playing. At the end my trip works out exactly as I wanted it to be - all of my friends show up at places I  picked out of MY convinience  and get my attention based on mutual interest: sometimes its a 1 hour lunch, or a shopping trip or even a trip to St.Peterburg overnight.My advise - even if you do not like head games, learn how to play this one.

[brownbeard99]

Interesting.. one of my friends in Russia does it to me.  We are not romantically involved obviousely. She talks a lot how she misses me not being there, but  whenever I tell her I am coming to visit,  she is busy all of a sudden, can not take a single day off work to hang out with me. The game is called "Dont think you are so important just because you show up  from America". I like this game. I  know the rules and I am good at playing. At the end my trip works out exactly as I wanted it to be - all of my friends show up at places I  picked out of MY convinience  and get my attention based on mutual interest: sometimes its a 1 hour lunch, or a shopping trip or even a trip to St.Peterburg overnight.My advise - even if you do not like head games, learn how to play this one.

Okay, I’m intrigued... do you care to share a little more on how the game is played in FSU? Normally, when a girl starts to put me off, I will act like I don’t care and say, “That’s too bad. Let me know if you are available some other time and I’ll see if we can work something out”.  Usually, they come around because they sense they may lose me.  This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

I was thinking about just calling her out and saying, “You seem pretty busy lately. I don’t want you to feel pressured to spend time with me when I come. Maybe we can spend time together when I come visit in January.”

The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up and I am not desperate. I want to subtly communicate this.  She is still my #1 choice, but she is falling...  I feel she needs to know that I’m ready to walk away if she continues to be so hot and cold with her interest... but I don’t want to do it in such a way that it CAUSES her to walk away.

How do you manage your friends to get what you want?

[2tallbill]

This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me
and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up

The problem is that you are using visit one tactics with a visit many strategy.

A girl will usually be happy to meet a man for tea to see if she likes him.
However, you spent extensive time getting to know this girl so you already
know you like her, she already knows she likes you.

You just don't know if there is any chemistry until you meet face to face.
Getting to know a girl is a visit ONE tactic. If you want to do that you need
to find the best girl and visit ONLY her.

If things don't work out you can go meet others but NOT the second place girl
in your original screening. There was a reason she was the second place girl.
You don't want a second place girl and she certainly doesn't want second prize
either.

If you want to meet many girls you don't get to know them first. You meet
them for tea to see if you have mutual chemistry.

YOU DON'T MEET THEM TWICE UNLESS YOU THINK SHE IS THE ONE

This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me
and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

Now she is offended and frustrated and probably you've spoiled your chances with her.
If she was your first choice you should have went to see her exclusively and if things
didn't work out only then you could go meet others.

The truth is, I already have plan b, c, d, e... lined up and I am not desperate. I want to subtly
communicate this. 

The truth is that you have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place girls. Forget about those girls and pursue
the first place girl. If it doesn't work out with the first place girl then go meet new girls and find a
new first place girl.

DON'T RECYCLE GIRLS

Going with girl d or girl e is recycling. You've already made a decision about who is girl number
one.

I want to subtly communicate this. 

DON'T BE SUBTLE AND DON'T BE VAGUE. RUSSIAN WOMEN DON'T DO VAGUE.

Tell her that she is the very best girl, that you want her! That's what she wants and
that's what she needs. Seriously, if you meet and everything clicks and you have
great chemistry and a great connection, do you really want to go see if girl b is
close to as good or better? If you still want to go see girl be then you didn't
really have a great connection with girl a.

How do you manage your friends to get what you want?

You don't manage your friends you manage yourself. If a friend turns out to be flaky
then how good of a friend are they? You manage yourself and don't meet the flake.

[krimster2]

"Dont think you are so important just because you show up  from America". I like this game."

Newsflash: You like this game, because you're the ONLY ONE PLAYING IT!!!!
Damn! I'd sleep with one eye open if I was her spouse, and keep my own toothpaste in a locked drawer!
Wow! when you see what's out there it can get rough...

[GQBlues]

Well, your advice is a little deflating, but noted nevertheless.  Maybe I will look back later and wish I took your advice... but some mistakes, a man just has to make for himself.  I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.

I’m not ready to give up before I begin, but I can recognize a losing proposition before long.  Yes, this is an expensive hobby, but it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse... (this is a generalization, please don’t fact check prices, people).

BB-

Women are women. I married a woman from Russia and have no regrets. However, I would not do this over again, nor have I ever recommended it to any of my friends, or to those who asked me about it. Nothing against any women outside our borders, MOB or not.

There is more than 'something' to be said in having a relationship with someone from your own environment. I will speak only of me...even today when I break a conversation with any gal, regardless of age, status, attractiveness, etc..I always find the comfort in having 'commonalities' with much of most things we talk about. They can do almost all I like to do in terms of life outside the home and work. I took all of these for granted before and blamed most of it to life being so easy with these gals. Anytime something becomes 'easy', it loses it's value, its luster, its mystic and all the excitement and enjoyment - the challenge dies along with it. No one here during those times was ever 'good' enough, exciting enough, etc...to keep me in a relationship for more than a month. I have this nasty feeling bedding someone for the third time was a major waste of time because I could be bedding someone else new just as easily.

But relationships are a lot more than that. The very mundane parts and association of any relations are as vital to the integrity of your intimacy as the most basic interactive behaviors with each other. I never spent the time to appreciate the former and solely drowned myself to the latter. It always got boring too fast. Never knowing then that problem wasn't the gals, the problem was always 'me'.

Life in the fast lane, man. You always get to the other side too fast..There's part of me that misses the 'american' in a woman despite of me being so happy with the Russian in my wife.

I would have you also know this is not a one way street. Women, likely even with my wife, regardless of nationality will subconsciously feel the same sentiment. Russian/Ukrainian whatever...there's something to be said in marrying someone from your own..

I do feel incredibly fortunate to have met and married my wife. But....

This is what I took from what 'jb' threw at me. If you have the 'option' - I suggest to choose wisely.

Have a great time in your pending trip. Give yourself, and the gal, the very best of yourself. Be true to yourself and you'd be true to her automatically. You will be out of your comfort and element, so keep a great presence of mind and don't lose yourself. That's the key...

You don't need to understand what I'm telling you now, nor what 'jb' advised me before - someday, regardless what path you take from here on in - you will undoubtedly understand and appreciate it then.

Good luck!

~ an aside: >>it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse<<

Funny. I actually 'bought' and had a horse before. Big quarterhorse - 15 hands. Great looking Red Dun. Pastured him in Malibu for a couple of years until I gave him up to an avid horse rancher from Montana as he would've been better off in horse country than be neighbors with the Kardashians et al..

[Donna_Pedro]

 


Y

ou just don't know if there is any chemistry until you meet face to face.
Getting to know a girl is a visit ONE tactic. If you want to do that you need
to find the best girl and visit ONLY her.

 True. And make sure your trip happens at the day and time previousely discussed and agreed upon in conversations with the girl.  You start with talking about your plans to visit, say in April and ask her if she is interested and available in April. Then, closer to purchase of plane ticket  - verify one more time what dates in April  would work better for her and if she has any ideas what she would like to do together. At the moment when you are ready to hit the "Buy it now" box - ask her one more time, stating that you are about to complete your ticket purchase and would like to verify one last time since you wouldnt want to waste the money you spent for the ticket. Tell her that you would not be able to change your ticket to a different date. Still, there is a chance she would want to play a game and tell you later that she is busy. And at this case, regardless how you feel about this girl, immediately close all communications with her  and get what you can out of your unused ticket.  Chances are - she will come back stating that she is waiting for you, but then - too bad - your trip has been canceled.

[Donna_Pedro]

Okay, I’m intrigued... do you care to share a little more on how the game is played in FSU? Normally, when a girl starts to put me off, I will act like I don’t care and say, “That’s too bad. Let me know if you are available some other time and I’ll see if we can work something out”.  Usually, they come around because they sense they may lose me.  This girl is like, “okay, thanks, bye for now”.  Just when I am about to give up, she calls me and makes time for me out of nowhere, then she gets busy again.

when I am about to give up


[/size]"when I am about to give up, she calls back and makes time" -  the girl knows how to keep you interested!! It works, dont you think?  She understands that there is always risk to lose you, but she is willing to take it. I say - make her live with consequences: Next time she does this, tell her that now you are so busy, you can not meet her, your schedule is so full. There is a big chance you may lose her, but its better to do it this early in the process, rather than  being  deeply invested.  I might be mistaken, but it feels like you are already falling for this girl, which means the game is effective.

[brownbeard99]

BB-

Women are women. I married a woman from Russia and have no regrets. However, I would not do this over again, nor have I ever recommended it to any of my friends, or to those who asked me about it. Nothing against any women outside our borders, MOB or not.

There is more than 'something' to be said in having a relationship with someone from your own environment. I will speak only of me...even today when I break a conversation with any gal, regardless of age, status, attractiveness, etc..I always find the comfort in having 'commonalities' with much of most things we talk about. They can do almost all I like to do in terms of life outside the home and work. I took all of these for granted before and blamed most of it to life being so easy with these gals. Anytime something becomes 'easy', it loses it's value, its luster, its mystic and all the excitement and enjoyment - the challenge dies along with it. No one here during those times was ever 'good' enough, exciting enough, etc...to keep me in a relationship for more than a month. I have this nasty feeling bedding someone for the third time was a major waste of time because I could be bedding someone else new just as easily.

But relationships are a lot more than that. The very mundane parts and association of any relations are as vital to the integrity of your intimacy as the most basic interactive behaviors with each other. I never spent the time to appreciate the former and solely drowned myself to the latter. It always got boring too fast. Never knowing then that problem wasn't the gals, the problem was always 'me'.

Life in the fast lane, man. You always get to the other side too fast..There's part of me that misses the 'american' in a woman despite of me being so happy with the Russian in my wife.

I would have you also know this is not a one way street. Women, likely even with my wife, regardless of nationality will subconsciously feel the same sentiment. Russian/Ukrainian whatever...there's something to be said in marrying someone from your own..

I do feel incredibly fortunate to have met and married my wife. But....

This is what I took from what 'jb' threw at me. If you have the 'option' - I suggest to choose wisely.

Have a great time in your pending trip. Give yourself, and the gal, the very best of yourself. Be true to yourself and you'd be true to her automatically. You will be out of your comfort and element, so keep a great presence of mind and don't lose yourself. That's the key...

You don't need to understand what I'm telling you now, nor what 'jb' advised me before - someday, regardless what path you take from here on in - you will undoubtedly understand and appreciate it then.

Good luck!

~ an aside: >>it’s still cheaper than flying lessons or buying a horse<<

Funny. I actually 'bought' and had a horse before. Big quarterhorse - 15 hands. Great looking Red Dun. Pastured him in Malibu for a couple of years until I gave him up to an avid horse rancher from Montana as he would've been better off in horse country than be neighbors with the Kardashians et al..

Thanks for sharing more of your wisdom.  This will all take me some time to digest.  I have some scary similarities with your past... that’s why I really try and give thought to your words.  I was definitely caught in the “rut” of looking for excitement and chasing girls.  This year, I got bored with being bored with women.  I want something deeper.  Your reply made me think of a girl I dated last year. She was a professional with a masters degree, smart, 12 years younger than me and eating out of my hand.  After four months, I found myself completely bored with her. She was sweet, loyal and nice.  She never did a thing wrong.  If I could, I would trade the boring life I had with her for a whole pile of excitement.

This is why I am really atttacted to one of these girls I have been talking to. She is smart, kind and humble.  I have been with many women more physically attractive than her, but there is something about her calm inner beauty and lack of excitement that I like.  Since I tend to get bored, the long visa process is to my advantage.  If I’m still feeling the same way after a long engagement, it will be unlike any relationship I have ever had.

[brownbeard99]

The truth is that you have 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th place girls. Forget about those girls and pursue
the first place girl. If it doesn't work out with the first place girl then go meet new girls and find a
new first place girl.

DON'T RECYCLE GIRLS

Going with girl d or girl e is recycling. You've already made a decision about who is girl number
one.

I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).  I think I understand the thinking behind not recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.

Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.  I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I haven’t met them yet.  Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A.  When I take her out to eat, she is a hot mess.  She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc.  If I had access to this information previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along.  After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice. She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information.  Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?

[BillyB]

I just had a girl here ask me out yesterday... it did make me pause and think.

On that situation, don't think, just do. You are not committed to anybody so you're a free man. When I was single, I dated a lot at home and would only visit a woman overseas if she was exceptional. You have an obligation to yourself to bring the best people into your life so don't pass up opportunity.

what is a bad attitude? Why shopping is in the same sentence with bad attitude?

Maybe I should've said "or" instead of "and". Usually girls that lure men to visit them so they can get free stuff on shopping excursions have a pleasant attitude up until the guy stops buying, then the bad attitude appears. Some girls are nice with the men that are visiting them but have bad attitudes with strangers or their family members. I've read too many trip reports with guys putting up with temper tantrums. Everybody should be on their best behavior on a first trip.

[2tallbill]

I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).  I think I understand the thinking behind not
recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.

Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.

I have always been able to decide that one is better for me than another.
Many guys decide to include girl b because she is really hot, but actually 
know which girl is better if they try to be brutally honest with themselves.

I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).  I think I understand the thinking behind not
recycling girls or going back to girl “B”, but I see it differently in some cases.

Let’s say girl A and girl B are a tie.  I base this “scoring” off of incomplete information because I
haven’t met them yet.  Let’s say I flip a coin and go with girl A.  When I take her out to eat, she
is a hot mess.  She has no table manners, is rude to the waiter, etc.  If I had access to this information
previously, girl B would have been the clear winner all along.  After dating girl A, girl B is now my first choice.
She would have been my first choice from the beginning if I had more complete information. 

Why should I start from scratch if I already found a girl I think would be great for me?

I really doubt that you would really flip a coin to decide, you would make a decision on who
to see. Your hypothetical situation seems unlikely but I am just giving you my advice many
others have tried your approach and often times the girls get wind of the situation and wreck
the very situation that you are trying achieve. These girls are usually excellent investigators.

My advice is to make a decision, if you really, really believe strongly that you should see girl
b IF girl a doesn't work out then go do it, that's not how I would do it. I'm just giving you and
the newbies reading this thread my opinion. 

If things don't work out with Girl A, you aren't really starting from scratch. You are on the ground
in country and there is no reason not to meet other girls for tea or coffee to see if you have chemistry.
That's exactly how I met my wife Angel Eyes. Once I met her I pursued her exclusively.

I always appreciate your advice (not just this thread).

Thank you for saying that 

Udachi!

[GenMish]

  I have been with many women more physically attractive than her, but there is something about her calm inner beauty and lack of excitement that I like.  Since I tend to get bored, the long visa process is to my advantage.  If I’m still feeling the same way after a long engagement, it will be unlike any relationship I have ever had.

We had someone abruptly end a K1 Visa process post here recently. He seemed like a nice guy . On his last trip out, things didn't go as well as he expected. The lady he met had already planned to leave after her approved interview and even lost her job because she thought she was going to the USA . He felt like garbage, but continuing would be worse. I agree, but I do believe he had good intentions from the beginning

I mention this because you are coming across as someone that wants to put another notch in your belt. I hope I am wrong.  I also hope you don't take the visa process lightly, and leave yourself an out if you get 'bored' or meet other women. Remember, these women are real people