Paul Manafort- Destroyer of Ukrainian Democracy

[Gator]

Simultaneously, Manafort has been replaced as the chief campaign manager.  Is this a shakeup because of Trump's sagging poll numbers?  Is this merely an enhancement (Manafort was not terminated, and one new person was added) for the final wave of campaigning?  Is this because of the Ukrainian reports that Manafort may have been paid $12.5 million for something, such as campaign consulting services (ads, focus groups, etc.) 

[Brasscasing]

Here's a piece in May of this year from a Ukrainian paper.  It states quite clearly that the Ukrainian view is that Manafort undermined Ukrainian democracy.

http://antikor.com.ua/articles/102808-manafort_zrobiv_prezidentom_janukovicha_rozduv_v_ukrajini_movne_pitannja_druhitj_z_rosijsjkimi_oliga

Which in turn is sourced to this article...

texty.org.ua

...That is using material from this American article...

www.slate.com

So at best the article is a retread from an opinion piece written by this guy who  op-eds a number of opinions like this...

Putin’s Puppet

If the Russian president could design a candidate to undermine American interests—and advance his own—he’d look a lot like Donald Trump.

By Franklin Foer

www.slate.com

So no you don't have a Ukraine article stating Manafort undermined Ukraine democracy...You have an American sourced anti Manafort op-ed stating Manafort undermined Ukraine democracy.

Pretty well all roads lead back to the anti Trump crowd.

Brass

[Brasscasing]

There are two separate ledgers.  The $12.7 million came directly from the Party of Regions.  Where the funds came from is unclear, but the payments were hidden, which is illegal.  I don't have much of an issue with that, as it is internal to Ukrainian political laws.  A second ledger was for disbursements for various things from a slush fund.  Those payments were physically signed for as they were disbursed, and were for small amounts, $100 here and there.   Mr. Manafort's name appears as the recipient of some of those payments, but prosecutors are not certain that he ever received them, or that he signed for those payments.  The reason names would be hidden is because typically, such payments are made for nefarious purposes. 


However, what struck me the most was the attempt to privatize state assets for his own personal benefit, at far less than fair market value.  That is common among Ukrainian politicians and their hangers on, but it is still theft.

Links? Substantiation? Press release? Anything?

Brass

[Brasscasing]

Simultaneously, Manafort has been replaced as the chief campaign manager.  Is this a shakeup because of Trump's sagging poll numbers?  Is this merely an enhancement (Manafort was not terminated, and one new person was added) for the final wave of campaigning?  Is this because of the Ukrainian reports that Manafort may have been paid $12.5 million for something, such as campaign consulting services (ads, focus groups, etc.)

I don't think Manafort was ever the Campaign Chairman or Manager, Gator. He was the Top Advisor. Apparently he still retains that position. So I don't think he's been replaced although the media are trying to spin it as such.

Brass

[Boethius]

Which in turn is sourced to this article...

texty.org.ua

...That is using material from this American article...

www.slate.com

So at best the article is a retread from an opinion piece written by this guy who  op-eds a number of opinions like this...

Putin’s Puppet

If the Russian president could design a candidate to undermine American interests—and advance his own—he’d look a lot like Donald Trump.

By Franklin Foer

www.slate.com

So no you don't have a Ukraine article stating Manafort undermined Ukraine democracy...You have an American sourced anti Manafort op-ed stating Manafort undermined Ukraine democracy.

Pretty well all roads lead back to the anti Trump crowd.

Brass

All irrelevant to my point.  This was printed in a Ukrainian newspaper for a reason.


I don't understand why you defend Paul Manafort, whose client list is a who's who of the most odious authoritarian leaders in the world.  His connections to tyrants, and profiting from working with the most corrupt leaders in the world is well documented, and predates any association with Donald Trump.  Ukraine was just the latest stop in a never ending quest to destroy the world for the benefit of a corrupt elite.

[Boethius]

I don't think Manafort was ever the Campaign Chairman or Manager, Gator. He was the Top Advisor. Apparently he still retains that position. So I don't think he's been replaced although the media are trying to spin it as such.
Brass

No, he is the campaign chair, and will retain that position. 


http://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-reshapes-campaign-organization-in-his-own-image-1471456052

[BillyB]

I don't understand why you defend Paul Manafort, whose client list is a who's who of the most odious authoritarian leaders in the world.  His connections to tyrants, and profiting from working with the most corrupt leaders in the world is well documented, and predates any association with Donald Trump.  Ukraine was just the latest stop in a never ending quest to destroy the world for the benefit of a corrupt elite.

Manafort didn't put all that money in his pocket. It was used for lobbying purposes. Did you read the other thread where he gave the Democrats millions through the brother of Hillary's campaign manager? Think Hillary is going to return that money?

[Brasscasing]

No, he is the campaign chair, and will retain that position. 

Apparently so, at least that's what the media are calling him today. I'm sure they'll invent some new titles and whether he's been demoted, fired, employed or not as time goes on. Serves to confuse the voting public with false scandal..

Trump shakes up campaign, demotes top adviser

www.washingtonpost.com

Where's Kiwi's outrage now, eh?

Brass

[Boethius]

He was referred to as Trump's campaign chairman before this "demotion".


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html?_r=0


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/lewandowski-calls-for-manafort-resignation-225801


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html

[Brasscasing]

All irrelevant to my point.  This was printed in a Ukrainian newspaper for a reason.

Uh, no. It's precisely relevant to your point. You stated...

Here's a piece in May of this year from a Ukrainian paper. It states quite clearly that the Ukrainian view is that Manafort undermined Ukrainian democracy.

It is not 'the Ukrainian view'. It is an American by the name of Franklin Foer's view re posted as an op-ed article on a Ukrainian news website.

I don't understand why you defend Paul Manafort, whose client list is a who's who of the most odious authoritarian leaders in the world.  His connections to tyrants, and profiting from working with the most corrupt leaders in the world is well documented, and predates any association with Donald Trump. Ukraine was just the latest stop in a never ending quest to destroy the world for the benefit of a corrupt elite.

1) Because there's nothing to show Manafort did anything wrong.

2) Destroy the world? LOL...This guy wouldn't even be on your radar if he didn't work for Trump. You even referred to him defending an earlier position (posted up thread).

Like Kiwi you both seem to have difficulty understanding that I'm not just going to fall into line with what you decide your position is on whatever your flavor of the day is...Not without substantiation or evidence of some sort which you haven't provided.

Brass

[Brasscasing]

He was referred to as Trump's campaign chairman before this "demotion".


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/20/magazine/how-donald-trump-picked-his-running-mate.html?_r=0


http://www.politico.com/story/2016/07/lewandowski-calls-for-manafort-resignation-225801


http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/02/us/politics/donald-trump-women.html

And yet when Trump hires more staff Manafort is fired, demoted, a top aid or whatever else best serves the left wing false scandal rhetoric.

Brass

[Boethius]

The opening paragraphs of the text in Ukrainian suggest this is, in fact, the Ukrainian perspective.

Manafort was on the radar of organizations such as The Center for Public Integrity long before Donald Trump demonstrated any interest in politics. 

http://cloudfront-files-1.publicintegrity.org/legacy_projects/pdf_reports/THETORTURERSLOBBY.pdf

[Brasscasing]

The opening paragraphs of the text in Ukrainian suggest this is, in fact, the Ukrainian perspective.

Manafort was on the radar of organizations such as The Center for Public Integrity long before Donald Trump demonstrated any interest in politics. 

http://cloudfront-files-1.publicintegrity.org/legacy_projects/pdf_reports/THETORTURERSLOBBY.pdf

I can pretty well suggest anything I want in my written submissions as well. It doesn't make it accurate or correct. A lot of people think that because they think it's so, it's so.

Riiiight...Another Pulitzer prize winning non partisan investigative body. Isn't that right?

..." the Los Angeles Times and the New York Times editorial referred to the CPI as a "liberal group."...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Public_Integrity

If NYT is referring to them as a "liberal group" they must be pretty darn liberal.

Brass

[Boethius]

But Manafort has, in fact, represented the who's who of sleaze, and profited handsomely from those associations.  He's made personal business deals with oligarchs who have stolen the wealth of their countries (all former commie nomenklatura, BTW, which includes Yanukovych) at the expense of the average citizens.  And he does so with no conscience.  Hmm, how do we usually describe such individuals?


I don't really care if the attack is coming from the left or the right.  What I look at is the act itself, and its consequences.  No matter what lipstick you put on this pig, Manafort is profiting personally by helping authoritarian leaders and robber barons. 

[BillyB]

Manafort was on the radar of organizations

Hillary was on a lot of people's radar. Isn't stopping her from being president so Manafort deserves a prize too. There's nothing Manafort can to that Hillary can do worse. Democrats took Yanukovych's lobby money through people associated with Hillary. Democrats make deals with terrorist sponsor states such as Iran. Yanukovych has killed much less people than Iran has.

[Brasscasing]

But Manafort has, in fact, represented the who's who of sleaze, and profited handsomely from those associations.  He's made personal business deals with oligarchs who have stolen the wealth of their countries (all former commie nomenklatura, BTW, which includes Yanukovych) at the expense of the average citizens.  And he does so with no conscience.  Hmm, how do we usually describe such individuals?


I don't really care if the attack is coming from the left or the right.  What I look at is the act itself, and its consequences.  No matter what lipstick you put on this pig, Manafort is profiting personally by helping authoritarian leaders and robber barons.

Wow! What an amazing display of unmitigated BS.

I've been asking for some form of substantiation backing up this fantastical vitriol of yours and I'm still waiting.

So far all I'm reading in this topic of yours is "I'm with her".

Brass

[Anotherkiwi]

Where's Kiwi's outrage now, eh?

Outrage at what?  At the fact that Trump has changed some of his campaign staff?

Like Kiwi you both seem to have difficulty understanding that I'm not just going to fall into line with what you decide your position is on whatever your flavor of the day is...Not without substantiation or evidence of some sort which you haven't provided.

You're getting as bad as some others here at not reading what I actually post.  I don't care what position you take on anything - I just want you to acknowledge the truth of the fact that Trump lied about Obama being the founder of ISIS.  If he was stupid enough to say it on live television, and repeat it, it's a bit bloody difficult to deny it - which is what you continue to do.  I don't care if you're actually his lovechild and worship him like a God - just take off your blinkers in this ONE instance.

[Slumba]

Manafort was working with ... Podesta Group, i.e. Jon Podesta, big time ... DEMOCRAT. Am I wrong about this connection?

[Boethius]

Wow! What an amazing display of unmitigated BS.

I've been asking for some form of substantiation backing up this fantastical vitriol of yours and I'm still waiting.

So far all I'm reading in this topic of yours is "I'm with her".

Brass

The odious clients are confirmed, based on lobbyist filings.


I am certain the Party of Regions, some half decade ago, faked their illegal slush fund payments at the behest of Democrat psychics, who predicted Manafort's high profile turn in the Trump campaign.


Really, if it walks like a duck,

[Brasscasing]

Outrage at what?  At the fact that Trump has changed some of his campaign staff?

The general misrepresentation that Manafort was demoted by the media to create false scandal...You have a problem even acknowledging the hypocrisy if it's originating on your team.

You're getting as bad as some others here at not reading what I actually post.  I don't care what position you take on anything - I just want you to acknowledge the truth of the fact that Trump lied about Obama being the founder of ISIS.  If he was stupid enough to say it on live television, and repeat it, it's a bit bloody difficult to deny it - which is what you continue to do.  I don't care if you're actually his lovechild and worship him like a God - just take off your blinkers in this ONE instance.

I highly doubt you read what you actually post or you wouldn't be posting it.

Again, Trump did not lie. He may have been somewhat ambitious with the word "founded" but the historical accuracy, perception and generally accepted sentiment that Obama is responsible for the rise of IS is factual.

You're kinda making a fool of yourself trying to convince me to agree with you when your premise is simply untrue.

Brass

[Brasscasing]

The odious clients are confirmed, based on lobbyist filings.


I am certain the Party of Regions, some half decade ago, faked their illegal slush fund payments at the behest of Democrat psychics, who predicted Manafort's high profile turn in the Trump campaign.


Really, if it walks like a duck,

And even with all your hatred focused on him. You have not produced anything to connect Manafort to any wrong doing.

Brass

[BC]

And even with all your hatred focused on him. You have not produced anything to connect Manafort to any wrong doing.

Brass

Well maybe no wrongdoing but I guess he felt his circumstances were becoming too much of a distraction for Trump and officially resigned today.

[Brasscasing]

Well maybe no wrongdoing but I guess he felt his circumstances were becoming too much of a distraction for Trump and officially resigned today.

His resigning may not have been a result of any circumstances. He simply may not have liked the new hires or the way the campaign was going.

I'm sure the media (and your ilk) will try and spin it as such though.

Brass

[fathertime]

And they will continue to ask how many angels dance on the head of a pin, as evidenced above.


Manafort worked with the Putin regime to elect Yanukovych.  But it was what he did later that matters.  He helped oligarchs buy up Ukrainian assets.  He called in favours to have the Yanukovych regime drop tariffs, important tax revenue for the Ukrainian government, for the benefit of U.S. multinationals.  Together with Ukrainian oligarchs, he laundered money in Ukraine, which was then used to corrupt Ukraine's judicial system, which had been cleaned up significantly under Yushchenko (I state this as one who is not a Yushchenko fan, particularly).

It certainly appears you were correct.  Isn't it ironic with all the grumbling about 'hillary scandal's' and her having to drop out, it winds up being one of Trump's top guys who is now in hot water!  All in all, the whole thing looks bad for the USA....a little like when Victoria Nuland made her 'fvuk EU' comments!   So I wonder how much US money is being used to try to influence the politics abroad...
Manafort’s Ukraine ties being probed by FBI


The Justice Department and the FBI are conducting a wide-ranging investigation into allegations of corrupt dealings by the government of former Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovych, including the hiring of Washington lobbyists for the regime by former Donald Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, a senior law enforcement official confirmed to Yahoo News.

The investigation, which was first reported by CNN, began two years ago after Yanukovych fled Kiev to Moscow and was replaced by the current government of Petro Poroshenko, the official said. But the inquiry has expanded in recent weeks in the wake of the discovery of documents showing $12.7 million in payments to Manafort by Yanukovych’s Party of Regions political party. Investigators are also....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/manaforts-ukraine-ties-being-probed-by-fbi-013933245.html


Fathertime!

[Brasscasing]

It certainly appears you were correct.  Isn't it ironic with all the grumbling about 'hillary scandal's' and her having to drop out, it winds up being one of Trump's top guys who is now in hot water!  All in all, the whole thing looks bad for the USA....a little like when Victoria Nuland made her 'fvuk EU' comments!   So I wonder how much US money is being used to try to influence the politics abroad...
Manafort’s Ukraine ties being probed by FBI


The Justice Department and the FBI are conducting a wide-ranging investigation into allegations of corrupt dealings by the government of former Ukrainian president Victor Yanukovych, including the hiring of Washington lobbyists for the regime by former Donald Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, a senior law enforcement official confirmed to Yahoo News.

The investigation, which was first reported by CNN, began two years ago after Yanukovych fled Kiev to Moscow and was replaced by the current government of Petro Poroshenko, the official said. But the inquiry has expanded in recent weeks in the wake of the discovery of documents showing $12.7 million in payments to Manafort by Yanukovych’s Party of Regions political party. Investigators are also....

http://www.yahoo.com/news/manaforts-ukraine-ties-being-probed-by-fbi-013933245.html

No Boethius is not correct and your article is just another example of the left wing media, in this case CNN, continuing their hatchet job on Manafort...

Report: FBI, DOJ looking at Manafort in Ukraine investigation

..."The Department of Justice and the FBI are looking at Paul Manafort as part of a broad investigation into alleged corruption in Ukraine, according to CNN."...

..."The investigation is instead broadly examining whether U.S. corporations and financial institutions had been used to aid former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, who was driven out of office, CNN reports."...

This is the real story buried in amongst the CNN bullsh*t...

..."The CNN report says that other firms that had been involved with Manafort have also been caught up in the Justice Department investigation, including the Podesta Group. However, the report does not list Mercury as being part of the probe.

CNN cites law enforcement officials saying that prosecutors “haven’t ruled anything out.” ...

The two companies that are actually the focus of your article's so called expanded FBI probe had already addressed the issue prior to CNN continuing their smear campaign against Manafort...

..."The two firms made the statements about outside hires prior to the CNN report on Friday evening."...

So CNN are unapologetically reporting a deflecting story. As the probe starts to link organizations like the Podesta Group and the Clinton foundation to Yanukovych, you'll see the left wing and their news organizations drowning that story out by substituting Manafort for names like Podesta and Clinton in their reporting even if his (Manafort's) association is peripheral to the event.

thehill.com

Brass