Hello RWD!

[Turboguy]

I just threw out a bunch of my Russian Language learning tools Doug and have more in a box ready to go to the dumpster.  I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet but if you want them you can have them.   I had about 4-6 different ones including Pimslier I II & III and Rosetta Stone along with some others.  I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet though.

[kynrazor]

OK, then you need to work on becoming a more interesting person.
Your education level might be part of the problem.
Fact is the less education a person has, the more they like to talk about things they know little about and it becomes painful for those around him/her (that know better) to listen to.
One tact might be to really, really, really become expert on something of interest to women.
Another tact is to ask questions of the ladies quite a bit.
Not like where are you from, etc., but what they think of some current events.
True women admire physical attractiveness in men, but they admire more intellectual attractiveness.
I have two brothers who are much better looking than myself, but they became wary of bringing gals to the family home . . . because once the gals started talking with me, they were hooked.

  I can totally relate to this ML! I think Intellectual conversations put your foot through the door and then the rest depends on what direction you intend to carry it to.

There have been more than a few occasions when I was having such a fantastic and interesting conversation with the woman whilst her increasingly uneasy "boyfriend" kept giving me looks and kept watch over us from behind the said woman. I don't blame the boys for their insecurity, as I think I might've easily "stolen" these women if I truly intended to. I've never truly run out of topics to discuss (assuming everything's in english ofc) as I'm comfortable with speaking about almost anything with people from all walks of life no matter what age group.

As perhaps previously discussed, practice does make perfect, though it doesn't guarantee the conversations will be of substance.

And substance, is what most conversations lack.

IMO what ML has stated is probably the truth to attracting quality women. Be a quality man yourself  Of course one's definition of a quality woman (smart?  subservient? big breasts?,  petite?, tall?) may vary, and so does the definition of a quality man.

[Trenchcoat]

I agree, good idea. I don't seem to have a problem around women (from my own perspective) but I must admit that it would sometimes appear women have a problem around me (they often try to avoid me when I approach to initiate conversation). My mother has told me she believes I come across rather intimidating, but I disagree. I'm not particularly tall or handsome, I don't have a sophisticated college education or a prestigious job and I try not to dominate the conversation. Perhaps I'm a bit too self-confident, but I really doubt I could be coming across as intimidating. I think it must be my appearance (short stature, my attire, etc.). Lots to work on!   

I think social skills can be a complex field, people often look at it in a singular fashion that it is the individual that needs to improve (often the man, lol). I think we often forget that we need to consider the social skills of the person we are talking to (sometimes they are not that good) and tell type of person they are. In the FSU I think perhaps more of the women there are more after someone who can speak on intellectual matters. Since they tend to do a lot of uni degrees out there and brought up in a more traditional family setting which favours such talk.

In the west I think intellectual oriented people struggle more, particularly men. If you meet a like minded women chances are you tend to be too much of the same. They have been brought up in a different manner more career minded. Western society also seems to favour the 'loud mouths' who are extrovert and talk the hind legs of anyone, i.E the centre of attention at most parties that a lot of women seem to go for.

I think in the west intellectualism is not viewed admirably in terms of social skills. Intellectual men can be viewed as a bore, socially inept, prone to rambling about stuff people already know but don't care to talk about or just don't care, someone introverted, lacking in fun/excitement, getting too bogged down in the ins & outs, lacking vibrancy and charisma.

Quite often it's the non-intellectual crowd that seem to come out on top in the west. They tend to have what is called more 'emotional intelligence' - they naturally know what to say and when to day it, how to act and automatically read and respond to a person by instinct in the most ideal manner. They often seem to amuse others by often the most banal comments that are actu ally almost devoid of substance or thought. Yet it proves remarkably affective in talking to their peers since they know how to relate to others and don't go about conversations I'm the same manner intellectuals do. I'm not sure if they would play well in the FSU because of it being a different society. I  think girls there look for serious guys as they need good providers whether someone has emotional intelligence instead of intelligence may not help their cause.

Over the years I have learnt particularly with the more low brow crowd that not talking too much tends to play better, not elaborating on what you say. The more simple minded folk tend to get lost on it all to easy and you don't come across well to them. Elaborate talk to them does not go down well, they are used to short punchy one liners and I think view people who elaborate as odd as of from another planet, a freak at best. To them I think it is the mark of someone who is not socially skilled if they elaborate since they have not picked up on the covert social cue of that societal group to not elaborate - what is sometimes called a low social monitor (someone who does not pick up well on the social environment, people's disposition towards them). So you need to quickly weigh up and judge your audience and see if you can adjust accordingly - sometimes easier said than done. A low social monitor will often not tune into whether something he or she is saying is the right thing to say in a given situation. The higher functioning social monitors will normally and often naturally do this.

[msmob]

Trench

Do you write utter bollox hoping for a 'rise' .. ?

Wishing you'd stop 'theorising' as a New Year's Resolution

[Trenchcoat]

Trench

Do you write utter bollox hoping for a 'rise' .. ?

Wishing you'd stop 'theorising' as a New Year's Resolution

I am not hoping for a 'rise' I am discussing what I have found to OP in order to help him out. Some may disagree with what I say, OP may find it useful or not. Many of ghe concepts here are from physiological studies and the like and my own learning and observation of people in real life. Judging from your video Moby and your failed marriages you hardly seem to have mastered social skills yourself even at your ripe old age. Happy New Year Mobers

[kynrazor]

Many of ghe concepts here are from physiological studies and the like and my own learning and observation of people in real life.

Erm, forgive my intrusion Trench, I guess you meant "psychological studies"? Not "physiological studies" that deal with the more physical side of things?

[msmob]

Kyn

Hence the 'bollox' comment - but I doubt Trench knew he was making such a funny mistake

[kynrazor]

Kyn

Hence the 'bollox' comment - but I doubt Trench knew he was making such a funny mistake

To be fair, that specific comment by Trench came after yours. 

[Trenchcoat]

To be fair, that specific comment by Trench came after yours. 

Funny as the predictive text mobile phone typo is the essense of what I am saying is true. To add to this Phycologists/scientists have found that there is a distinct difference in the eye alertness of extroverts compared to introverts. People are apparently attracted to those that are emotionally intelligent - generally the more extrovert, through their eyes being brighter and more stimulating to the recipients brain. Introverts tend to be more duller and a turn off for many apart from those matched by chemistry. So in some ways there's only so much you can do. It like the comet you get from women sometimes when a woman gives birth that the kid has 'bright eyes' so bright with intelligence, it is not intelligence though but emotional intelligence they ate reacting to - the kid may literally prove to be as thick as sh*t intellectually at least.

This relates back to the article BillyB put up that those with strong emotional intelligence - i.e those with strong social skills often get on very well not because they are particularly good at anything but because they always play well with people. Think of the number of times you have seen or had a mangers who was as thick as sh*t the and new little of their subject compared to the underlings who he/she got doing their work because they knew more but lacked the social skills to be attractive to those they would need to convince in order to attain that management position. Hell there are even very intelligent and talented people that spend years unemployed/underemployed since they come across so dismally in interview even though they are probably by far the best candidate for the job all the interviewrest see is someone who does not shine socially and be able to convince them of their skills and abilities.

[kynrazor]

People are apparently attracted to those that are emotionally intelligent - generally the more extrovert, through their eyes being brighter and more stimulating to the recipients brain. Introverts tend to be more duller and a turn off for many apart from those matched by chemistry. So in some ways there's only so much you can do. It like the comet you get from women sometimes when a woman gives birth that the kid has 'bright eyes' so bright with intelligence, it is not intelligence though but emotional intelligence they ate reacting to - the kid may literally prove to be as thick as sh*t intellectually at least.

Hmm, so many generalisations, so subjective.  Who is to say emotional intelligence can't be taught?

Naturally, going by those foregone conclusions, I would possess one of the most un-sexiest, dullest set of eyes then, since I am of Asian ethnic stock with very dark brown eyes 

[Trenchcoat]

Hmm, so many generalisations, so subjective.  Who is to say emotional intelligence can't be taught?

Naturally, going by those foregone conclusions, I would possess one of the most un-sexiest, dullest set of eyes then, since I am of Asian ethnic stock with very dark brown eyes 

I think there is some scope for learning the natural skills of those with 'emotional intelligence' but you won't have it naturally unthinkingly as a gut reaction response rather you will analyse what you see around you and recognize the signs, eg. if you are sat on a table opposite a girl you could learn that you need to analyse her facial expressions rather than just sit there rambling on, if you notice she looks bored you try talking of something else, if you use humour and she looks unimpressed then you either try a different type of humour or move onto something more serious, intellectual even, etc. A low social monitor would just ramble on not even noticing if she is looking more and more bored or just not partaking a roughly equal contribution to the conversation.

You will never be able to learn to become someone with emotional intelligence though, it is a different way of recognizing what those with emotional intelligence do by instinct and doing the same or similar. You will be learning their skills rather being naturally skilled and you will be going through a different brain thought pattern as I've just explained. It is well known that the introvert brain has a far more complex set of pathways than an extrovert brain, an extrovert's brain pathways are more direct and their brain works in a completely different manner. They tend to quickly see a situation and respond, thinking time is minimal, they don't always get it right and sometimes say inappropriate things but most of the time they are right on cue. If they wrong foot themselves they normally quickly know how to adjust and recover the situation.

Some people have greater ability to learn emotional intelligent skills than others I think, some are such low social monitors that they refuse to accept or even realize they fall woefully short on the socializing front. Some no matter how much you tell them how they should react just don't get it, their mind is pre-programmed and conditioned so much to react the same way every time no matter what anyone says.

If by saying Asian you are telling us you're Chinese well that is know to be one of the most introverted country/peoples on the planet. I used to work in a Uni with a lot of Chinese and while I found them very humble, decent, courteous, nice and studious people they were pretty much all introverts, quiet, nerdy even and of unaware of their environmental surroundings, two left feet as the saying goes. The African crowd was often at the other extreme, vocal, passionate, animated - seeing them two groups of people together doing group work could be hilarious, complete counterpoints to each other, lol.     

p.s dull eyes have nothing to do with eye colour, those with bright gleaming eyes are often perceived as more intelligent but the reverse is usually true.

[msmob]

To be fair, that specific comment by Trench came after yours. 

?? Not according to my chronological records

[msmob]

Funny as the predictive text mobile phone typo is the essense of what I am saying is true.

I rather doubt it - I'm sure you meant to type physiological - when the word you were looking for was psychological ...but this is so typical of you refusing to accept and learn

[msmob]

If by saying Asian you are telling us you're Chinese

As I recall, Singaporean .....  ?  Trench, keep up

[kynrazor]

?? Not according to my chronological records

Trench wrote "physiological studies" on Reply #79, right after the "bollox" comment on Reply #78 on this thread.

So if there were no misunderstandings, Trench's typo came after the "bollox" comment. 

[msmob]

Trench wrote "physiological studies" on Reply #79, right after the "bollox" comment on Reply #78 on this thread.

So if there were no misunderstandings, Trench's typo came after the "bollox" comment. 

You are QUITE correct, Kyn ...   My 'excuse'  (weak though it is ) is that I read Trench's 77 -  total bollox 'theorising' - of course - and then he compounded his stupidity in 79....

Well-spotted

[msmob]

I am not hoping for a 'rise' I am discussing what I have found to OP in order to help him out.

Exactly the problem - you are 'doing it again' ...your advice ( (based on the conclusions you draw to get there )  SUCKS ... !

Some may disagree with what I say, OP may find it useful or not.

That would be most of us more experienced members.....

Many of ghe concepts here are from physiological studies and the like and my own learning and observation of people in real life. Judging from your video Moby and your failed marriages you hardly seem to have mastered social skills yourself even at your ripe old age.

 

Another example of why you need to make a new years resolution ..  you simply haven't got a clue what you are writing about [ and - unlike you I've posted 50+ vids on here and I'm not frightened by a camera - so which one brought about the 'wisdom' of your conclusions;) ]

You've certainly not studied my physiology 

Unlike you, I HAVE learnt from the failed marriage I didn't want to end ...   You would be wiser to listen and learn - instead of trying to 'score points' ..

 Happy New Year Mobers

Indeed, Trench .. work on that 'sense of humour' of yours and you might even have one !

This is one of the saddest new years I've experienced....    I miss SC ...   LOTs..

[kynrazor]

You are QUITE correct, Kyn ...   My 'excuse'  (weak though it is ) is that I read Trench's 77 -  total bollox 'theorising' - of course - and then he compounded his stupidity in 79....

Well-spotted

Thanks for being a good sport msmob. I very much concur it could have meant either way. I was afraid I'lld misunderstood.

Off topic: Blimey! Fireworks are now flying all around my neighbourhood! With best wishes from Oxford, Happy New Year everybody!   

[Maxx2]

This is one of the saddest new years I've experienced....    I miss SC ...   LOTs..

I can imagine. You are a good couple.

[Lord of the Dance]

It appears that you want to get away from where you live, which is understandable given the comments above.  However, when you talk about "prospective cities," are you referring to (for example) Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, New York and others reasonably close to where you are now, or the whole of the USA, or the whole world (even the whole English-speaking world)?

Which is a very good reason for NOT learning Russian as a complete language - it would take years to become fluent, and you still won't pick up elements of humour or other "native speaker only" elements which you simply don't recognise as such in English.  Added to which, of course, is that there's no guarantee that you would end up with a Russian-speaking girlfriend/partner/wife anyway.    And, even if you did, she will have learnt English at school - how much she remembers is another matter, but there are MANY FSU women on dating websites whose English level is listed as "Fluent" or "Very Good."  If you restrict yourself to searching amongst this group you will, of course, be eliminating many others who might include the best choice for you - but everyone in this venture appears to agree that communication is the absolute number one priority for making a relationship work.  The better your prospective wife's English, the better your chances.  Of course there are many exceptions (Chicagoguy on here is one obvious example).

If you intend to visit Ukraine or Russia, you most certainly need to learn the Cyrillic alphabet.  Get a good phrasebook (Lonely Planet's is superb), study it before you go (you don't have to learn everything off by heart, though!), and don't be afraid to refer to it when you're on the ground.  Of course, the advances in apps these days mean that you can probably get by with just your smartphone, but it doesn't hurt to have a written backup in case your phone dies unexpectedly (or your beloved lives in the middle of the Siberian tundra with no cellphone coverage  ).

Whatever you decide, I wish you the best of luck. 

Thanks for the wish of good luck Anotherkiwi, it's appreciated.

As to my comment on prospective cities, I was actually referring specifically to cities within the FSU (primarily Russia and Ukraine, but I might broaden my horizons later, circumstances depending).

Thanks for the suggestion on a phrase book (never heard of 'Lonely Planet' before, but I'll look into it). I understand exactly what you're saying about the language barrier. Not that I could even learn to speak fluently if I tried, but I can definitely understand how it might actually be 'more dangerous' to think you can speak fluently than to not know a single phrase.

I'm C&Ping a comment here that I had originally posted over on RUA about such matters:

"And therein lies my biggest fear of the foreign language barrier: even when you hold a basic understanding of any given language, there are still plenty of opportunities for minute (but egregious) errors in communication.

As an example of this issue in the converse, I was recently reviewing a learn-to-speak Russian type webpage, authored by an ostensibly well-intentioned native Russian speaker. In English, he had endeavored to explain the advantage of utilizing index (flash) cards to improve rote vocabulary. In describing his suggestions, he mentioned distributing the vocabulary cards about your dwelling: at the kitchen table, on the bedroom nightstand and 'in the toilet!' "No," I thought, "that's where you put your cards for a swift and sanitary disposal upon the discouraging realization that there's no chance in hell you're going to learn the Russian language!" 

Quite the jester of myself I'd create in a foreign tongue! These concerns aside, I'm afraid I've got to try."

[Lord of the Dance]

You would be correct as a generalization. This is how my wife and most of the FSUW we know are. They want to live life to it's fullest and love adventure. If you are into these types of activities I believe it also gives you a huge advantage over other men searching.

I'm encouraged by reading your thoughts alex330, thanks for sharing this sentiment.

[Lord of the Dance]

OK, then you need to work on becoming a more interesting person.
Your education level might be part of the problem.
Fact is the less education a person has, the more they like to talk about things they know little about and it becomes painful for those around him/her (that know better) to listen to.
One tact might be to really, really, really become expert on something of interest to women.
Another tact is to ask questions of the ladies quite a bit.
Not like where are you from, etc., but what they think of some current events.
True women admire physical attractiveness in men, but they admire more intellectual attractiveness.
I have two brothers who are much better looking than myself, but they became wary of bringing gals to the family home . . . because once the gals started talking with me, they were hooked.

Thanks for the thoughts and advice ML, I appreciate it.

I feel that I'm actually quite the interesting person just as I am now, but I guess one of the issues I run into is the fear that I will come across as boastful if I talk too much about my life... my interests and hobbies, the things I own, the places I travel (or want to travel), etc.

I can understand how your brothers might be wary of doing all the work for you! 

[Lord of the Dance]

I have a copy of 'The New Penguin Russian Course' it under a pile of stuff on my desk. Never really hado the time to look at it much. To be honest despite good reviews on Amazon it really does seem more of a course text book, something you use alongside or after a formal claas room course with a tutor. No doubt it can be useful if you want/can get down to several hours of hard study a day. I don't think it really for an absolute beginner though as I think you need some basic grounding in Russian for it to be useful. The most useful learning tool I have used to learn Russian is the computer programe 'Before You Know It' - BYKI. It's free to download & use (I just use the free version ) You'll only be able to learn a few basic words & become familiar with a few Russian words but I think it's your best bet if you are due to visit in the near future and can't fit in a whole course. I've also used Rosetta Stone but it costs and again to be honest I don't think it's as good for someone without a real world classroom course - it's learning curve is a bit steep. I can also recommend a copy of the lonely planet phrase book as a back up, even a learning reference. I've never used it on the street but I can see how it would be handy to have as a back up. There pocket size travel guides are also handy.

Thanks for these tips Trenchcoat, I'll check out 'Before You Know It.'

[Lord of the Dance]

I just threw out a bunch of my Russian Language learning tools Doug and have more in a box ready to go to the dumpster.  I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet but if you want them you can have them.   I had about 4-6 different ones including Pimslier I II & III and Rosetta Stone along with some others.  I am not sure what I haven't thrown out yet though.

Hey thanks Ray, I appreciate it. Don't inconvenience yourself, but anything you have in-hand at the moment and want rid of I'll accept graciously. Perhaps I could pick up said materials when I come down to check out your shop / business!

[Lord of the Dance]

I can totally relate to this ML! I think Intellectual conversations put your foot through the door and then the rest depends on what direction you intend to carry it to.

There have been more than a few occasions when I was having such a fantastic and interesting conversation with the woman whilst her increasingly uneasy "boyfriend" kept giving me looks and kept watch over us from behind the said woman. I don't blame the boys for their insecurity, as I think I might've easily "stolen" these women if I truly intended to. I've never truly run out of topics to discuss (assuming everything's in english ofc) as I'm comfortable with speaking about almost anything with people from all walks of life no matter what age group.

As perhaps previously discussed, practice does make perfect, though it doesn't guarantee the conversations will be of substance.

And substance, is what most conversations lack.

IMO what ML has stated is probably the truth to attracting quality women. Be a quality man yourself  Of course one's definition of a quality woman (smart?  subservient? big breasts?,  petite?, tall?) may vary, and so does the definition of a quality man.

I concur kynrazor, quality conversation is the key to quality women! The finesse of carrying on small talk truly is a form of artistry... those who master it don't seem to have much issue meeting awesome people.