Krakow & Lviv tour

[Trenchcoat]

This happens quite a bit.
i.e. We find a mate either when we aren't really looking for one, or they show up in a situation that wasn't pre-planned.

Yeah, that's exactly what I thought, lol. It's strange that it happens that way. If you think about it the odds should be remote but if anything it seems to end up as better odds than roaming around a square packed full of woman all day. Quite how this comes about I do not know.

Still I have the question mark over why she has not contacted me back, it's kind of bizarre.

[2tallbill]

NOTE: I am writing for the newbies here because Trench is incapable of learning by
participating at the forum. I wonder if I need to tell him to zip his fly up after leaving
the toilet or if he can figure that part out himself.

until I started talking about being in Lviv for dating - her demeanour changed and I could see that she was unhappy, even pissed off with my talk on it.     

Seriously you continue to act like a newbie with no experience that doesn't read what
we write here. Sometimes I think that you don't have a chance. You've made what?
3-4 trips and you said that you arrived for dating women.

Here is the future answer for those who can show up with their fly closed.

Part One "I came to meet a girl, but it didn't work out."
Part Two "Then I saw your photo and I had to meet you!"
Part Three "It's been my dream all my life to wake up to a girl with
a sunny smile like yours" (or something similar) 
 

[2tallbill]

I didn't really stare as I know from the past that showing too much interest can put a girl off. It just became evident that she was showing more off, I believe deliberately.

I know you're that I should know not to mention other women, I just did not realise how even a vague talk on being there to date would sou things. I mean I was dating her so I thought it obvious that I am dating (I didn't specifically mention I was dating other women) but it looks like ant brief passing by of the subject causes them to read into it more than there was. So in future I will definately stay clear of the whole mindfield and if conversation moves that way quickly find some other subject to talk about.

Trench,

You need to have an answer for standard questions that every single girl will
ask you.

How will you avoid a minefield pray-tell. Any normal FSUW will interrogate you
like Nazi SS troops if you try to give an answer the slip. What you need is an
answer for ordinary questions that will be asked of you.

Why are you traveling to my city?
BAD ANSWER = To be a sex tourist

Trench start a new thread today called questions and answers. I used to think
that you might be able to work through this but now, I really think you are
hopeless, but it might help others.

How was your morning?
BAD ANSWER = I woke up with a giant erection thinking of hot young girls! 

[Trenchcoat]

Your right Bill, thank you for the input I think I need to consider stuff to say to heat it up a bit insead of just the usual back & forth conversational stuff that becomes a bit of a crutch for me.

The other thing is that I messed up on a couple of questions/areas which like you say I shouldn't off which I should have turned into an advantage like you have put. I had heard about women not taking well to any notion of dating other women but I just didn't realise the extent to which it goes on any slight idea that that may be the case.

I know it may not look like Ilisten here Bill but your input is helping me out a lot and I think slowly but surely it is getting through, so I much appreiciate

[Bee Farmer]

Here is the future answer for those who can show up with their fly closed.

Part One "I came to meet a girl, but it didn't work out."
Part Two "Then I saw your photo and I had to meet you!"
Part Three "It's been my dream all my life to wake up to a girl with
a sunny smile like yours" (or something similar) 

Bill, that's great advice if you are a chump who is trying to hook up with a low class girl.

That's horrible advice if you are a man of integrity who wants a long term relationship with a quality lady.

Any lady with any self-respect is going to see right through that BS.  Yes, flattery will get you places with easy girls, but quality ladies see right through empty flattery.

And what happens if a girl hears empty flattery?  She knows that you will say what you think she wants to hear.  She knows she can never completely trust you, because you are not completely honest.  She will never fully commit to a relationship with you.  There will always be a part of herself that she holds back.  Is this what you want?  (Some people are ok with an arrangement like that.  Look how many divorced people pursue relationships.  Everyone knows you can't trust a divorced person in a relationship, because how can you expect them to keep their promises to you, if they didn't keep their promises to their former spouse?  And people who have been divorced always view divorce as an option, and if you have a backdoor out of a marriage, you will never completely go all in.  If a problem is big enough, you will walk away instead of fixing it.)

If you want a life-long relationship built on trust, it is better to tell a girl that you came to the city to go on dates with multiple women.  She will respect you for being honest.  (And if she is the only girl you choose to continue dating, she will feel special.)

[Trenchcoat]

Bill, that's great advice if you are a chump who is trying to hook up with a low class girl.

That's horrible advice if you are a man of integrity who wants a long term relationship with a quality lady.

Any lady with any self-respect is going to see right through that BS.  Yes, flattery will get you places with easy girls, but quality ladies see right through empty flattery.

And what happens if a girl hears empty flattery?  She knows that you will say what you think she wants to hear.  She knows she can never completely trust you, because you are not completely honest.  She will never fully commit to a relationship with you.  There will always be a part of herself that she holds back.  Is this what you want?  (Some people are ok with an arrangement like that.  Look how many divorced people pursue relationships.  Everyone knows you can't trust a divorced person in a relationship, because how can you expect them to keep their promises to you, if they didn't keep their promises to their former spouse?  And people who have been divorced always view divorce as an option, and if you have a backdoor out of a marriage, you will never completely go all in.  If a problem is big enough, you will walk away instead of fixing it.)

If you want a life-long relationship built on trust, it is better to tell a girl that you came to the city to go on dates with multiple women.  She will respect you for being honest.  (And if she is the only girl you choose to continue dating, she will feel special.)

I think you may have some valid points here Beefarmer. I would need to make sure I deliver any flattery or complimentso so they don't fall flat and appear empty. I do think though I could do with hearing up th situation/discussion a bit though when deeper into the conversation.

I think your point with divorced women is a valid point also that they may best be avoided or at least concerned about if looking for a long term affair.

I'm still not sure any talk if meeting many will go down well, that even if coming out with it straight it will be a big downer. After all how does she not know you are telling many of the girls that they are the 'chosen one' and you are not just being a player?

[krimster2]

you poor guys
so focused on details
that you overlook the big picture
if it takes you this much effort
then you’re doing it wrong

generally, you want to make a woman your “friend” first
BEFORE you move on to romance
this will allow her to be comfortable with you
and then if she’s interested SHE will send romantic signals to YOU
if, after a few days you don’t get the signals, then you still had a nice time
move on, and you learned more for next time

Trench, not seeing any progress here,
repeating the same thing but expecting better results
is not a good strategy

I can only conclude that your ability to establish a close rapport
with a Ukrainian woman is not something that you can easily achieve
if this was the right choice for you, you already would’ve succeeded
so I conclude this is NOT the right choice for you
so much easier for you to make Trench more interesting
take your home renovation project
and make a comical but interesting youtube video of it
you could even make local presentations, etc in nearby cities
and meet people who share your interest
on home renovation, or anything else you choose
as I said before, turn yourself into a flag
run it up a flag pole
and look around and see who salutes it
so much simpler this way
they come to you

[Trenchcoat]

you poor guys
so focused on details
that you overlook the big picture
if it takes you this much effort
then you’re doing it wrong

generally, you want to make a woman your “friend” first
BEFORE you move on to romance
this will allow her to be comfortable with you
and then if she’s interested SHE will send romantic signals to YOU
if, after a few days you don’t get the signals, then you still had a nice time
move on, and you learned more for next time

Trench, not seeing any progress here,
repeating the same thing but expecting better results
is not a good strategy

I can only conclude that your ability to establish a close rapport
with a Ukrainian woman is not something that you can easily achieve
if this was the right choice for you, you already would’ve succeeded
so I conclude this is NOT the right choice for you
so much easier for you to make Trench more interesting
take your home renovation project
and make a comical but interesting youtube video of it
you could even make local presentations, etc in nearby cities
and meet people who share your interest
on home renovation, or anything else you choose
as I said before, turn yourself into a flag
run it up a flag pole
and look around and see who salutes it
so much simpler this way
they come to you

Krimster you're back!!!  

What happened I thought you were on a do or die mission from the last message you left?

Well yes I think also you have a point. I tried with both train girl & last meet girl to build a rapport but I guess I didn't go far enough. The girl dud not speak good English so that hampered progress. The last meet girl I went onto do dinner to try & build better rapport. We did build more rapport by carrying onto dinner but I think perhaps not enough plus the dating talk mistake etc was made on my part.

I think for me the visit many doesn't give me the time I need to build rapport. For me I am not quick at building a lot of rapport on a short space of time. If she was steaming hot into me then that might not matter but I don't think even train girl was as strongly into me as that.

Your idea of 'raising the flag' is a very good one. I often struggle to think of stuff like that so thank you I am still interested in foreign women so for me it's something to think about.

For the moment I am going to go back to visit one and do weekend visits as Nightwish suggests. I think it probably suits my personality more. I can take the experience gained from this trip though as it all helps even though it was not a success I learnt a fair bit. I want to get better at this and I think gradually I'm getting there

I think your idea has real merit though, I kind of think if you can be seen as a leader even on a small scale, even if somewhat comical then that can be very attractive to women and like you say see who salutes. So yes potentially easier perhaps.

[Bee Farmer]

I'm still not sure any talk if meeting many will go down well, that even if coming out with it straight it will be a big downer. After all how does she not know you are telling many of the girls that they are the 'chosen one' and you are not just being a player?

You need 3 things to get a woman.  Time, money, and effort.  If you are lacking in any one of those 3, you will have to make up for it with extra of the other things.

Talk of meeting many may not go down well, initially, but it doesn't have to go down bad either.  Just understand that the girl will be guarded, and may feel like she is being treated as a job interview.  (Or as a piece of meat if you are grabby, or focused on sex, in which case it will likely go down badly unless she is just looking for a hookup.)

It is on the next visit that you make the girl feel special, because you returned just to see her.  She knows you had many options, but you liked her best.

How do you convince her that she is the chosen one and you are not being a player?  Simple - don't be or act like a player.

Make sure you show her that she is your number one priority for the return trip.  You want to spend every available moment you have with her.
Let her know when your plane arrives and leaves.  Invite her to meet you at the airport.
Ask her to take off work to spend time with you.  Reimburse her for whatever pay she loses.  Insist at least 3 times that she take the money.  If she still refuses after you have insisted 3 times, slip it in her purse or jacket pocket when she isn't looking.
If she can't take off work, text her a couple times a day letting her know you are thinking of her.  Ask her how her day is going, or let her know what interesting things you are doing.
If she can't get off work, be in the area she works, and text her a little before lunch offering to meet for lunch.
If she is able to get off work early, drop everything you are doing so you can spend time together.  If you are "busy," she may suspect you are out on a date with someone else.
Give her the same level of communication about your schedule that you would if you were married.  Don't be secretive.  It will only build mistrust.
Don't give her any reason to suspect you being insincere.  Don't go to a bar or club without her, or any places guys commonly go trying to pick up women.
Don't make sex your primary focus.  Make getting to know her and becoming friends your primary focus.  If you marry her, you'll get tons of sex.
Don't lie to her at all.  Give her the same level of openness and honesty you would give your wife.  After all, dating is just a trial run at being married.
Always try to make her feel important.

Krimster does bring up a good point.  Be the kind of man good girls are looking for.  Put yourself where you can be seen by them.  They will notice you.

[krimster2]

"What happened I thought you were on a do or die mission from the last message you left?"

returned from Amsterdam yesterday....
smoked way too many "splifs"
two weeks from now I leave for Crimea
in Russia, splifs smoke you

[krimster2]

it's important to put a woman in the "friend zone" first
and THEN jump to the "bone zone"
but it looks to me that whatever approach you're utilizing
for meeting women
is not getting you the right woman
and needs to be changed

[krimster2]

Oh Canada!!!

[Trenchcoat]

"What happened I thought you were on a do or die mission from the last message you left?"

returned from Amsterdam yesterday....
smoked way too many "splifs"
two weeks from now I leave for Crimea
in Russia, splifs smoke you

Ah, thought you might be on your way to assassinate Trump by the way it was sounding, lol.

So instead off to prove your point about Crimean villages then

[Boethius]

If you want a life-long relationship built on trust, it is better to tell a girl that you came to the city to go on dates with multiple women.

Not in Ukraine.  She can get that with local men, who aren't cheap when they date.  No meeting merely for "drinks".


I read to the better half Trench's post about saying he was in Ukraine to date.  His reaction was to  laugh out loud at how the woman would react to that, and how stupid a man has to be to say that to an FSUW.

[Trenchcoat]

"She can get that with local men, who aren't cheap when they date."

ohhhh yes they are!!!
incredibly so!!!
local dating is pretty tough for Ukrainian women
I've heard ALL the stories
I laugh when you accuse us of making a making a misogynistic mole hill
but ignore the Russian mountain
 

I get the impression it's a bit of a game out there then. The woman pushing for what she can get and the guy pushing back to give as little as possible. Though I guess the best girls getting more than the not so good ones perhaps?

[Trenchcoat]

Again, a gopnik attitude.  Didn't you interact with any normal Ukrainians?

Well for me there was the train girl she actually paid for me, she was a Ukrainian police officer, she never asked for a bribe either

Other than that some of the people I interacted in and around the old town in Lviv & people in general seemed normal enough. However, I think I know Krimster means when it comes to dating & relationships in general I get the impression it's best to sound out the ground first and wait and see if I have what you call a gopnik first (what I call a chav ) or a girl that has learnt to be more refined.

I think though with the last meet girl she knew her value was not high because of her age from local dating even though she looked pretty fit. I think she was somewhat refined so not so gopnik perhaps.

[rwd123]

Not Ukrainian, it is Russian, but this forum has some hilarious content (use google translate if you don't know Russian). You'll get a better idea of some of the dating experience of women in Eastern Europe. I assume the women there talk about the horror stories more than the good dates, but not every guy there is a chivalrous knight in shining armour.

http://www.woman.ru/forum/

[Boethius]

Not Ukrainian, it is Russian, but this forum has some hilarious content (use google translate if you don't know Russian). You'll get a better idea of some of the dating experience of women in Eastern Europe. I assume the women there talk about the horror stories more than the good dates, but not every guy there is a chivalrous knight in shining armour.

http://www.woman.ru/forum/

One can find tons of similar, or effects worse stories written by American women.

[Bee Farmer]

Not in Ukraine.  She can get that with local men, who aren't cheap when they date.  No meeting merely for "drinks".


I read to the better half Trench's post about saying he was in Ukraine to date.  His reaction was to  laugh out loud at how the woman would react to that, and how stupid a man has to be to say that to an FSUW.

I'm not saying that saying you are there to date several women is a good choice, but compared to the other suggested option of empty flattery (a lie) I think honesty is still a better choice.  Not good, but better than a lie.

Probably a safer, and truthful, reason would be to say vacation/tourism.
The best reason would be a WOVO trip.

[Trenchcoat]

Funny thing about Russia

No-one wants to live in a ground floor apartment

If you live in a house, they often put a high fence around it

Yet, I have found any neighbour to be caring- trustworthy and they pay bills for us and we them if away

That's the funny thing I've always found on my few trips over there to Ukraine. The people seem very freindly and hospitable, helpful even and I never got the impression it was done to dupe me for financial gain.

People on here have said about how tough it is out there. I see very few though if any that look like they have the outward viciousness to directly challenge in a violent confrontation like you might find in the rougher parts or even not so rougher parts of the UK (not talking those of African decent either). Most Ukrainians I think don't have the backbone for direct violent confrontation. Not as a first response at any rate. Even the concept of bribes out there I think is probably put across in as friendly non hostile way as possible so that it isn't seen as a bribe and more of an informal business exchange to which the one giving the bribe has voluntarily chosen to do so. So not really a demand upon which animosity is drived but a voluntary social interaction rather than the old US gangsters of 'pay up or else'.

I think Ukrainians have grown up learning that it doesn't help them to be seen as overtly hostile, thieving, etc. That they have the most to gain by projecting a friendly outlook and indeed most genuinely being so. I think that on the quiet though that if they think they can get away with nicking this or that without much likely hood of being found out/anyone knowing thy will do so, not all but many. I don't think as in a break in mentality, at leat not ad a first response but opportunism to take whatever is more or less laying around for easy taking on the quiet, even if the have to dig it up I think this is probably seen as the least risky and most easiest way to bring in a few extra bucks to survive. That's what I make out of it.

[krimster2]

you have to trust me on this one Trench
living there will give you a completely different perspective than visiting
this is what happened to me
my eyes were opened but only after I lived there
then I couldn't get out fast enough

[Trenchcoat]

you have to trust me on this one Trench
living there will give you a completely different perspective than visiting
this is what happened to me
my eyes were opened but only after I lived there
then I couldn't get out fast enough

I kind of get the impression it's an old skool, 'don't  take anything valuable' with you over there. This is going to be my approach from now on as a result of a minor incident over there (yet to findo the time to tell you guys about that). Essentially my Samsung mobile (worth around £280 or so) went temporarily missing I got it back but in future have bought a cheap Moto C dual sim phone I'll just use for travelling over there. Just too much risk & bother otherwise. So now I have an expensive Home mobile and a cheap Travel mobile I get the impression getting organised on this front and being as independent as possible so not to be seen as weak is the way to go.

[krimster2]

now yur learnin and getting smarter!

here's one of the tricks I picked up...

carrying any kind of concealed weapon is a big legal no no in ukraine
so I carried a massive steel padlock that fit PERFECTLY in my clenched fist
nothing illegal about carrying a padlock
but put that massive Chinese steel padlock in your fist
and let loose with full force on someone's jaw
and GAME OVER MAN!
it was my security blanket

you have to have every kind of skill there

iphones have a feature for tracking if stolen
used it to keep track of daughters locations in Amsterdam
in case THEY were stolen

in Amsterdam, also good for finding nearest "coffeeshop" to my current location, for like coffee
you never know when you might need a quick "pick-me-up" in Amsterdam
oh the baristas there are sweet, be sure to leave your barista a good tip
so next time when she weighs out 5 grams for you you get choice buds and no stems
just sayin
now that ukrchicks can get shenghen visa to Europe
you COULD take them to Amsterdam
back in the day, if I coulda done that
I would've been able to completely savage
the delicate flower of Ukrainian womanhood
to my heart's delight

oh my just thinkin about it
and I did see a few elite western players there with their Ukrainian trophies doing just that
had a major envy attack

[Davo2]

Not Ukrainian, it is Russian, but this forum has some hilarious content (use google translate if you don't know Russian). You'll get a better idea of some of the dating experience of women in Eastern Europe. I assume the women there talk about the horror stories more than the good dates, but not every guy there is a chivalrous knight in shining armour.

http://www.woman.ru/forum/

Thanks for the link.... I've been laughing, cringing and changing my opinion of FSU women after an hour reading on this site.

Some sing the praises of foreign men, their personalities and sexual performance in comparison to Russian men, but others are brutal in their opinions of us.

"Nonsense! Our men are the best, sincere and caring. I understood it when I worked in Leningrad in a hotel for foreigners. Foreigners are hard-core individualists, greedy and calculating, with very limited horizons, who know little beyond their work. Selfishness from them and pret. Women in general have nothing to put, the manner of politeness is zero, treated on an equal footing as a man. And not all handsome. There are also bald, and fat, and sluts. And many more foul-smelling gases can be released from the back seat, as if necessary"

[Trenchcoat]

now yur learnin and getting smarter!

here's one of the tricks I picked up...

carrying any kind of concealed weapon is a big legal no no in ukraine
so I carried a massive steel padlock that fit PERFECTLY in my clenched fist
nothing illegal about carrying a padlock
but put that massive Chinese steel padlock in your fist
and let loose with full force on someone's jaw
and GAME OVER MAN!
it was my security blanket

you have to have every kind of skill there

iphones have a feature for tracking if stolen
used it to keep track of daughters locations in Amsterdam
in case THEY were stolen

in Amsterdam, also good for finding nearest "coffeeshop" to my current location, for like coffee
you never know when you might need a quick "pick-me-up" in Amsterdam
oh the baristas there are sweet, be sure to leave your barista a good tip
so next time when she weighs out 5 grams for you you get choice buds and no stems
just sayin
now that ukrchicks can get shenghen visa to Europe
you COULD take them to Amsterdam
back in the day, if I coulda done that
I would've been able to completely savage
the delicate flower of Ukrainian womanhood
to my heart's delight

oh my just thinkin about it
and I did see a few elite western players there with their Ukrainian trophies doing just that
had a major envy attack

Yeah, I wondered what the situation was in Ukraine with concealed weapons, much the same as the UK really by the sounds of it. Padlock idea a good one. Like I say I've never felt a full on confrontation is often their style over there but handy to know you've got a backup just in case.

Well my Samsung had an app on it to track it down. Unfortunately though as it had no GPS signal as not a local sim in it I could not track it down from my tablet. The tablet I had also had the obvious drawback of once moving out if wifi range I would no longer be able to track it even if I had a local sim.

So I actually bought 2 Moto C dual sim phones over there. Seemed a kind of crazy thing to do as people would probably ask why. It means though I can track on down with the other plus I can still make calls & receive sms text, etc. So I can put one in my luggage switched on and keep one me. If mu luggage goes astray it helps me to track it down, if my phone on me goes astray I get the one out of my luggage to track it down

They cost me each just a bit over £60 each so pretty cheap safety safeguard really as losing that stuff can cause real problems when abroad I think.