Putin is Ruining Russia

[Photo Guy]

'...Putin cannot take this public relations advice. He cannot support an admission that shreds his public statements and contradicts his own propaganda. His public stance has been that Russia has nothing to do with this conflict. His spokespersons have denied that Russia is sponsoring the pro-Russian separatists with mercenaries and heavy equipment, including tanks and missile systems...'
.....from:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/21/if-putin-mans-up-his-regime-will-crumble/

[Boethius]

An article about the flight of Russia's entrepreneurs and middle class -


http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/07/24/under-putin-russia-seeing-an-exodus-of-the-most-educated-most-active-most-entrepreneurial-people/

[Doll]

'...Putin cannot take this public relations advice. He cannot support an admission that shreds his public statements and contradicts his own propaganda. His public stance has been that Russia has nothing to do with this conflict. His spokespersons have denied that Russia is sponsoring the pro-Russian separatists with mercenaries and heavy equipment, including tanks and missile systems...'
.....from:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/paulroderickgregory/2014/07/21/if-putin-mans-up-his-regime-will-crumble/

Did you read the whole article?
He is blaming Russia for supporting  rebels, same time he thinks USA should  supply real military assistance for Ukraine.
How is it possible - to blame with no proof and to intend to do same?
How is Putin "ruining Russia?"

[lonedrake]

Putin’s is a case of a criminal regime where the crime is so bad that the costs of cover up pale by comparison.

 I think it is foolish to expect Putin to admit anything. Honest criminals are few and far between

[Doll]

I think it is foolish to expect Putin to admit anything. Honest criminals are few and far between

Who started ALL THIS in Ukraine long ago? Putin?

[GQBlues]

Whi started ALL THIS in Ukraine long ago? Putin?

*Long ago*, meaning 'recent past'? If so, undeniably EU/USA...

[Boethius]

Doll, are you blaming Ukrainians for not wanting to continue to live with massive corruption?


Suggesting the EU or US started this is a slap in the face to Ukrainians who went to Maidan, and were willing to die there.

[fathertime]

Suggesting the EU or US started this is a slap in the face to Ukrainians who went to Maidan, and were willing to die there.

Oh boy, the 'insult card' has to get played again. 


Fathertime!   

[Gator]

 
Even with the Israeli invasion of Gaza, both Time Magazine and Newsweek have Putin on this week's cover.  .


Cold War II  The West is Losing Putin's Dangerous Game

With an article entitled  "Crime Without Punishment." 


The Pariah - West's Public Enemy Number One


With an article entitled "Behind the Scenes in Putin's Court: The Private Habits of a Latter-Day Dictator."

[Boethius]

Oh boy, the 'insult card' has to get played again. 


Fathertime!   

Yes, Ukrainians are such sheep, they faced police barricades, beatings, and death, all for the EU/US.


Do you believe this guy was on Maidan because of the US?





Gator said it best.  You have virtually no knowledge of what occurred, why people died on Maidan, and why they were willing to continue to protest, knowing they were facing bullets.

[fathertime]

Yes, Ukrainians are such sheep, they faced police barricades, beatings, and death, all for the EU/US.


Do you believe this guy was on Maidan because of the US?

What are you moaning about?
People participating in Maidan could have been there for their earnest beliefs YET they didn't  START this. 

Suggesting the EU or US started this is a slap in the face to Ukrainians who went to Maidan, and were willing to die there.

I just feel this type of post is populist grandstanding and playing the 'i'm insulted card'.  Somebody can imply that the US/EU instigated without it being a 'slap in the face' like you angrily retorted. 


Fathertime! 

[Boethius]

What are you moaning about?
People participating in Maidan could have been there for their earnest beliefs YET they didn't  START this. 

The first protesters were a mix of activists and paid protesters, for both non Yanukovych aligned oligarchs, and Yanukovych aligned oligarchs.  So, uh, yes, they did start this.  Unless you have some information the rest of the world doesn't know about.

I just feel this type of post is populist grandstanding and playing the 'i'm insulted card'.  Somebody can imply that the US/EU instigated without it being a 'slap in the face' like you angrily retorted. 

It is a slap in the face, because it assumes that Ukrainians are stupid sheeple that were manipulated by greater forces.


Ukraine has no strategic importance to the US.  Nor to the EU.  So it defies logic that either would have started the events that unfolded.

[fathertime]

It is a slap in the face, because it assumes that Ukrainians are stupid sheeple that were manipulated by greater forces.

No YOU assumed that Ukrainian people are sheeple...I didn't say or even imply that!   Intelligent and thoughtful people can be manipulated in different ways.  If you feel slapped in the face because quite a few people feel the USA helped instigate the recent events, that is your choice to feel slapped. 

Ukraine has no strategic importance to the US.  Nor to the EU.  So it defies logic that either would have started the events that unfolded.

So by your logic, a nation has to have 'strategic importance' for the the US or EU to commence fomenting.  Well if we go with this logic, then harming Russia's interests is an interest of the USA and creating another less friendly country on Russia's border is of benefit to the USA.  I don't think it is logical for you to think that the US could not have helped start this for strategic interests.   


Fathertime!   

[Doll]

*Long ago*, meaning 'recent past'? If so, undeniably EU/USA...
 

Yes, recent past when all this crysis started in Ukraine.
What does Putin have to do with it?
And still my question- HOW exactly is he ruining Russia? Russia is very strong now.

[Boethius]

No YOU assumed that Ukrainian people are sheeple...I didn't say or even imply that!   Intelligent and thoughtful people can be manipulated in different ways.  If you feel slapped in the face because quite a few people feel the USA helped instigate the recent events, that is your choice to feel slapped. 

There is no evidence, zero, that the USA helped instigate Euormaidan, and they certainly didn't send terrorists to the Donbas.

So by your logic, a nation has to have 'strategic importance' for the the US or EU to commence fomenting.  Well if we go with this logic, then harming Russia's interests is an interest of the USA and creating another less friendly country on Russia's border is of benefit to the USA.  I don't think it is logical for you to think that the US could not have helped start this for strategic interests.   
Fathertime!

Why else would they spend money? 

All Euromaidan was about was ending corruption and signing the EU Association Agreement.  Neither of those things have any benefit to the U.S.  Signing the Association Agreement had no effect on Russia.  After all, Russia's largest trading partner is the EU.

So, how, exactly, were Russia's interests being harmed?

[Doll]

Doll, are you blaming Ukrainians for not wanting to continue to live with massive corruption?


Suggesting the EU or US started this is a slap in the face to Ukrainians who went to Maidan, and were willing to die there.

Bo, look at the title- Puting is ruining Ruissia and read the OP.
What does Putin (again) have  to do with all this shame?
Who started it years ago? Ukrainians. They need to stop "dying".

[GQBlues]

Yes, recent past when all this crysis started in Ukraine. What does Putin have to do with it? And still my question- HOW exactly is he ruining Russia? Russia is very strong now.

Well Doll, of course Putin/Russia is just as guilty for its complicity in this conflict. Just as EU and by proxy the USA. You should read about the context of the YES Summit back in September 2013. Even Russia's small fry delegation forecasted social and civil chaos if Ukraine signed the AA.

As for the *title*, who knows...there are a multitude of reasons why people do what they do. Unfortunately, emotions are always the dominating sense.

[fathertime]

All Euromaidan was about was ending corruption and signing the EU Association Agreement.  Neither of those things have any benefit to the U.S.  Signing the Association Agreement had no effect on Russia.   

So, how, exactly, were Russia's interests being harmed?

You would have to ask Russia.

Whether you feel Russia's is being harmed or not, it is pretty clear that Russia feels it's interests are being harmed! Regarding the US it is silly to think that Russia losing strength isn't a benefit to the US.



Fathertime!   

[Gator]

HOW exactly is he ruining Russia? Russia is very strong now.

Russia's military is strong enough that America would only get involved in a real war as a last resort.  However, the next war will be fought on economic terms, and Putin's actions will hurt Russia economically.

For sure Russia's economy is stronger than it was  5 or 10 years ago.  However, Russia's economy is still only about the size of Italy's (roughly $2 trillon each vs. $16 trillion for the U.S.).  And given that Russia's economy is commodity-driven and not as diversified as the U. S.'s, plus the fact that prices for energy will level off in the near future, Russia is not in the same league as US.  The term Cold War IIthus is misleading as it takes two equal opponents to have a cold war.

[Doll]

Russia's military is strong enough that America would only get involved in a real war as a last resort.  However, the next war will be fought on economic terms, and Putin's actions will hurt Russia economically.

   

Russia in strong economically as well.
Or you with all USA economical problems are going to think that the USA is " heaven"?
Let's be realistic.
I still didn't get the answer how Putin is ruining Russia
 

[The Natural]

Russia in strong economically as well.
Or you with all USA economical problems are going to think that the USA is " heaven"?
Let's be realistic.
I still didn't get the answer how Putin is ruining Russia

In practical terms, in my opinion, Washington is about to declare war on Russia. Not militarily, but economically. It's a small window of opportunity for the crazies in Washington and it's got to do With the New kid on the Block, BRICS.

Putin is not ruining Russia. He tries to save it. If he fails, Russia will go back to being just another country under the command of the Empire. Then Washington goes for the Next big threat to it's hegenomy... China (provided China by then didn't voluntarily drop it's pants and bend over for Washington).

[Boethius]

Bo, look at the title- Puting is ruining Ruissia and read the OP.
What does Putin (again) have  to do with all this shame?
Who started it years ago? Ukrainians. They need to stop "dying".

The annexation of Crimea was done by Russia.  The support the terrorists currently are receiving is also from Russia.  Putin has told the EU he has influence with the terrorists.


Sorry, but I can't believe that Muscovites with FSB/GRU connections just coincidentally landed in Donetsk, proclaimed an independent republic, and proclaimed themselves leaders of that republic.  According to Strelkov, less than 1,000 natives were willing to fight for this "independent republic".  So, what does that tell you?


Do I believe Putin is ruining Russia?  No, I don't demonize him.  But I do think he is partly responsible for the bloodshed in Ukraine.

[Boethius]

Russia's military is strong enough that America would only get involved in a real war as a last resort.  However, the next war will be fought on economic terms, and Putin's actions will hurt Russia economically.

For sure Russia's economy is stronger than it was  5 or 10 years ago.  However, Russia's economy is still only about the size of Italy's (roughly $2 trillon each vs. $16 trillion for the U.S.).  And given that Russia's economy is commodity-driven and not as diversified as the U. S.'s, plus the fact that prices for energy will level off in the near future, Russia is not in the same league as US.  The term Cold War IIthus is misleading as it takes two equal opponents to have a cold war.

Some Russian economists agree.  From a piece in the Washington Post today, summarizing various opinions in Russia

The economists, including and especially Alexei Kudrin, are saying that sanctions would wreak havoc on economic growth in Russia from its already low point of 1.3 percent to 1 percent.   

Lest that seem too abstract, he has also said, in terms that should be comprehensible to most Russians, that if the country has to re-arm to keep up with NATO, they could see a 15-20 percent decline in their standard of living.   

Both of these arguments were published in the official news agency ITAR-TASS, suggesting that they have the support of at least some major players in the Kremlin.

http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/wp/2014/07/25/putin-in-july-or-the-fight-for-russias-soul/

[fathertime]

In practical terms, in my opinion, Washington is about to declare war on Russia. Not militarily, but economically. It's a small window of opportunity for the crazies in Washington and it's got to do With the New kid on the Block, BRICS.

Putin is not ruining Russia. He tries to save it. If he fails, Russia will go back to being just another country under the command of the Empire. Then Washington goes for the Next big threat to it's hegenomy... China (provided China by then didn't voluntarily drop it's pants and bend over for Washington).

Now that BRICS is getting off the ground, it can do nothing but lesson the influence of the western powers.    If that alliance continues to grow in membership and scope such things as western sanctions will have a lot less impact.  China has been courting interested potential members all over S. America and Africa, while the USA is jerking around making enemies by droning, spying,  and 'spreading democracy' in places such as Iraq, Afghanistan, and Libya..among others.  Time for the US to rethink things maybe?


Fathertime! 

[Photo Guy]

How is Putin hurting Russia?

There are exceptions, but the general consensus is that Putin's extreme statements are all untrue. The world sees it that way, so that undermines the degree that the world trusts him and his government.

Anyone who has followed the events of the Maidan, the 'Revolution of Dignity' cannot conclude that the revolution was caused by the EU or the USA.

Few people believe that Putin's Russia has not been involved militarily in eastern Ukraine. Few people believe that Russia did not supply BUK missile systems to separatists in eastern Ukraine. Most people saw how Putin called the events in Crimea, a grass-roots revolt by the locals. Putin said those army uniforms in Crimea could be bought in any military store. Later Putin admitted that Russian military was sent to Crimea. And this was done using a military that had no markings, no insignias. that shows the world Putin's mindset.

In other words, most of the world sees that Putin cannot be trusted. Putin tells us that the MA17 disaster had nothing to do with weapons supplied by Russia and yet we have recordings of separatists talking about the BUK and we have a video of the BUK leaving the scene. What does Putin tell us about those blatant recordings of his insurgents- like Girkin?

And when Putin refers to Ukraine as 'New Russia' what does that tell us?
Does it tell us to please invest in Russia? No. I don't think so.

The list of Putin's statements and actions are long and the big conclusion:
We cannot trust him. This has a huge consequence for the people of Russia who deserve to have a leader that can be a friend of the EU and the rest of the world. Russian media is constantly slamming the US and the EU, yet look at where Russia's elite go: the EU. Putin's daughter in the Netherlands?? Lavrov's daughter at Columbia University?? That tells us a lot.

And look at what is happening in Crimea. More examples of an ethnic nationalism that will hurt Russia's reputation.