Russian Women Discussion
RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: 55North on August 18, 2006, 12:05:42 PM
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Without comment. A newspaper article.
Pravda.ru
August 18, 2006
Russian girls abandon their nation in need
The number of Russian women who married foreigners is measured in hundreds of thousands.
A prominent Turkish TV station NTV proudly announced yesterday that in the past 10 years nearly 200 thousand Russian girls had married Turkish men.
The scope of the population loss for our country is naturally close to 800-900 thousand per year as it is, and the amount of women lost to the “bridal export” is causing this number to resemble a Biblical disaster. Politicians familiar with these statistics attempted to react to the mass decrease of reproductive-aged women last spring by updating the Citizenship Law. The lawmakers suggested that young women willingly abandoning their country should have their Russian citizenship revoked. Unfortunately Duma did not support the project as only three people voted “for.”
As the report shows the girls who choose to marry away come from depressed regions of Russia . An ordinary $200 tourist visit to Antalia is usually stated as the reason for departure. After experiencing a two-star hotel these impressionable girls decide to stay in Turkey for good in order that “the holiday may never end.” There are basically no obstacles to their decision since to produce a marriage certificate Turkey only requires the home state’s confirmation that the girl is unmarried and a fee of $40.
There are also hundreds of local marriage agencies that provide service to the girls without potential fiancées. Sadly, life in Turkish provinces radically differs from a life in a recreational hotel, and the pages of women’s magazines are packed with heartbreaking stories of disappointed Russian women. But the marital migration’s coin has another side. Out of the 200 thousand only 60 thousand women remained in their new homeland and the other 140 thousand were used by the Turkish guys as a means of transportation: in order to immigrate and get legalized in Russia.
Komsomolskaya Pravda
Translated by Natalia Vysotskaya
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Yeah, your competitors wetern males ;D
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But not serious competitors. A majority of us don't want emigrate TO Russia.
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Now that depends on how to look at this competition Because in some aspects hot young Turkish boys can be decent competitors to old fat males with green cards prospects :P
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Hey, for sure. Turkey is much better with the archaelogy [sic] when you can stand proudly on the ruins of Troy. Yummy! I can't wait to dig that.
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My (now-wife) Olga, had a Turkish "boyfriend," whom she met while on vacation in the Crimea. (Turkish submarine was in port in Ukraine somewhere. Hot young Turkish sailors everywhere.
And Olga was seriously interested in the guy in terms eventual marriage. She had already decided it was time to find a suitable husband.
Turkish sailor guy dumped her for a Turkish chick. Can you imagine?
My good fortune, of course.
And by the way, as Elen has attested, Russian women love swarthy-looking guys (more so than blondies). (Also my good fortune to be half-Lebanese.) (Other half is Irish, by the way.)
What's also interesting about this article is that the populations of the FSU countries, including the birth rates, are declining. And the locals are getting sensitive as to the "why." It's a bitter-sweet trade-off between the money they make off the MOB "industry" and the price they are paying for it in terms of what is perhaps any country's most precious natural resource. And this is why the guys in the big hats can get nasty about the absence of a PMZ stamp in your Ukrainian wife's passport at Borispol.
DS
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Elen, my fiancee previously had a Turkish boyfriend. It's me she wants to marry. No contest!
Seriously, though, the article does indicate that a significant quantity of RWs are still looking to leave (I'm thinking of discussions around this topic on this site.) Are these the ones that failed to attract appropriate attention with men in the West? I do know of some UWs who, quite frankly, are unlikely to ever score in the West (even though they are with a good agency), and they are pursuing Turkish options as a sort of half-hearted Plan B, especially while the sun's shining.
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Elen, my fiancee previously had a Turkish boyfriend. It's me she wants to marry. No contest!
Seriously, though, the article does indicate that a significant quantity of RWs are still looking to leave (I'm thinking of discussions around this topic on this site.) Are these the ones that failed to attract appropriate attention with men in the West? I do know of some UWs who, quite frankly, are unlikely to ever score in the West (they are with an agency), and the are pursuing Turkish options as a sort of half-hearted Plan B, especially while the sun's shining.
Look I though I was clear with my post that women could look for some other "aspects" in relationship with males but not only for green card ( the main your "advantage" in competition with Turkey guys) So don't be such overweening in your assumeption that Turkey boys are only for those who failed with western males. Better check WHAT exactly western males are searching for women in FSU and WHY big age difference is lovely endless eternal topic at such boards
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Also Turkey is seen culturally as the oddball in the "Islamic" lands. Due to reforms in the 1920's, it has been fairly secular and progressive. Islamic traditions are prominent but learning and education are promoted heavily there. I wouldn't be too surprised to see RW looking to Turkey as a possibility. Most of the guys are friendly and kind.
But again, they win because they got the ruins of Troy. I really want to look at the history and legend of one of the beloved Grecian tales. Plus maybe hit up on a few Hittite sites while I'm at it!
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Aren't the Hittites now in Albania (so to speak)?
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Hi there!
I am exercizing, eating weeds, and trying to lose weight, so that I can compete with young
Turkish boys. What kind of place is Turkey? I have read numerous reports about Turkey and human
trafficing. Slaves for prostitution, etc. I guess that's the dark side of Turkey.
Yes, women leave their homeland in search of economic security and conditions
favorable for creating a strong family. Love and romance do figure into the mix.
Opposing forces include their strong ties with friends, family, and a familiar culture.
Don't undersestimate those connections, ..like I did. Also consider this: if she gets
sick, she may be afraid of 'bad' American doctors and require a doctor in the FSU.
Hey- just food for thought.
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Sorry, but the Hittites are kinda extinct now... about the center of prostitutions, that's way overblown. Again, don't believe the media gravy train. Of course, with all the negative press, I'm surprised that we don't get any positive flak for being here.
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I remember seeing on tv a few weeks ago, an American emigrated from this country and went so a city in Siberia. He started a McDonald's or Burgerks king francheses. He become a mult-millionar. If you are from Minnesota, what differnece would a few degrees make
Beattledog
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Unfortunately, I do think of MacDonalds or Burger King as a positive. In fact, fast food is pretty much the bane of the world.
I prefer a good homecooked meal.
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Yes, women leave their homeland in search of economic security and conditions
favorable for creating a strong family. Love and romance do figure into the mix.
Doug, I'd have endorsed this before I met my fiancee, but now I believe that love and romance are the most important elements of this mix.
If I had to pick a single piece of advice for guys just starting out, it would be never fall for or even consider marrying a girl who is not drop-dead crazy in love with you. I realize my fiancee has yet to step foot in the US and I don't wish to sound smug, but when I think back to the Ukrainian and Russian girls I met earlier, many were much too willing to roll the dice with me. I figured my knowledge of this would help me minimize the risk, but I shudder to think of our chances for success if I'd bought over a girl who genuinely liked me, was attracted to me, and trusted me implicitly -- yet didn't love me.
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Photo-Doug,
I'm not picking on you, but you've got to shed some of this denial.
If a woman really, truly loves you and wants to be your wife, she will deal with her "strong ties with friends, family, and culture," leave them behind, start her new life, and build a suitable bridge later.
"I don't want to leave my mother alone" is almost always code for "I'm not all that crazy about you."
(Even worse, would be "I can't leave my friends." I think the last time a girl used that one to get rid of me was in Junior High.)
Skepticism of Western doctors, Western medicine is just another indicator that their heart's not really into what they are doing. See my thread about RWDMA vs. RW. Heed the advice of the guy who just said don't get involved unless they are drop dead crazy about you.
What kind of weeds are they, anyway?
DS
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Photo-Doug,
I'm not picking on you, but you've got to shed some of this denial.
If a woman really, truly loves you and wants to be your wife, she will deal with her "strong ties with friends, family, and culture," leave them behind, start her new life, and build a suitable bridge later.
"I don't want to leave my mother alone" is almost always code for "I'm not all that crazy about you."
(Even worse, would be "I can't leave my friends." I think the last time a girl used that one to get rid of me was in Junior High.)
Skepticism of Western doctors, Western medicine is just another indicator that their heart's not really into what they are doing. See my thread about RWDMA vs. RW. Heed the advice of the guy who just said don't get involved unless they are drop dead crazy about you.
What kind of weeds are they, anyway?
DS
After her mother told her that her crazy father was refusing to go to work, on a hunger strike, and staring
at the walls because he had 'lost his only daughter', Larisa began to consider returning to Ukraine. This
hit her like an emotional sledgehammer and her decision wavered from day to day, torn between
staying and going back. Add to the mix, the fact that her parents had already lost a young daughter
and you may be able to imagine how emotional the situation was. So sure, she went back home
because ..she was not all that crazy about me, but I do not think that was the reality.
Nice joke about the weed.
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Elen, my fiancee previously had a Turkish boyfriend. It's me she wants to marry. No contest!
Seriously, though, the article does indicate that a significant quantity of RWs are still looking to leave (I'm thinking of discussions around this topic on this site.) Are these the ones that failed to attract appropriate attention with men in the West? I do know of some UWs who, quite frankly, are unlikely to ever score in the West (even though they are with a good agency), and they are pursuing Turkish options as a sort of half-hearted Plan B, especially while the sun's shining.
They don't leave. Of the 200k mentioned, 140k ended up in Russia with their guys.
Basically this is the same game as you lot are playing. Russian women get younger and prettier guys becasue many Turkish guys are very poor and see Russia as an opportunity.
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hot young Turkish boys can be decent competitors to old fat males with green cards prospects :P
Russian women get younger and prettier guys becasue many Turkish guys are very poor and see Russia as an opportunity.
So Turk scammers may be the new, upcoming trend.
Imagine the poetic justice of FSU scammers becoming entangled with them ;D.
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Russian woman killed, Turkish man wounded in Turkey bar
RIA NOVOSTI. August 18, 2006, 8:49 PM
ANKARA, August 18 (RIA Novosti) - A Russian female tourist died of a gunshot wound and a Turkish citizen was badly hurt after a masked man opened fire in a bar in a Turkish resort, the Russian consul said Friday.
Sergei Alifanov said the 36-year-old woman was from Lipetsk, 500 km southeast of Moscow, and had traveled to Antalya on a package tour.
Local police said the shots had been fired from an automatic hunting weapon. The search for the assailant is continuing, the consul said.
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If I had to pick a single piece of advice for guys just starting out, it would be never fall for or even consider marrying a girl who is not drop-dead crazy in love with you.
Amen to that. It is damn good insurance as long as she isn't drop-dead crazy.
Maxx
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Why would any intelligent RW go to Turkey? That country is known to have sex slave rings exporting girls out to other countries.
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Why would any intelligent RW go to Turkey? That country is known to have sex slave rings exporting girls out to other countries.
Mainly because there are no strict visa requirements. A few dollars or euro at the border and that's it. Second, because it is still relatively cheap to vacation there. Third, a lot of travellers to Turkey are stocking up with items to sell back home.
The adult entertainment industry there will never go away but hopefully will recede a bit as the economic situation in FSU improves.
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Why would any intelligent RW go to Turkey? That country is known to have sex slave rings exporting girls out to other countries.
Why do you presume that it's all about sex "slavery" for female? Times change, males ;)
What if there are enough intelligent RW who can't get that sex ( well it's even not about only sex but about males attention in general) from Russian males and Turkey guy are rather good in that ?
And it's not about improving economic situation in FSU - it's otherwise about bad economy in Turkey :P And some ( well rather many) RW go to Turkey like German women go there and like American women go to Cuba ( or other latin contry) because back in home their "intelligence" could help little to get that attetion they wish from local males ( for various reasons)
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PS don't take me wrong Turkey is first of all a place for just vacations at a sea beach with rather good service for little money and a place for trading business It's just this topic started with "that" side of travelling to Turkey wich dose exist as well
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And it's not about improving economic situation in FSU - it's otherwise about bad economy in Turkey :P
Somehow I knew that was coming Elen! ;D
I'm sure FSU countries have a good pool of skilled workers that could probably produce quality consumer goods at a reasonable price.. Why is this not happening? It would be really refreshing to go down to a local store here and see some RU products mixed in with Chineese, Korean, Turkish, Japaneese etc..
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Somehow I knew that was coming Elen! ;D
I'm sure FSU countries have a good pool of skilled workers that could probably produce quality consumer goods at a reasonable price.. Why is this not happening? It would be really refreshing to go down to a local store here and see some RU products mixed in with Chineese, Korean, Turkish, Japaneese etc..
Ah males ::) I'm about craving of RW ( as well as German American anr etc Women ) for males' attention and you are about economy in return ::) - just right like our governmet wich does not see where is the problem with "Turkey's guys" lays
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Ah males ::) I'm about craving of RW ( as well as German American anr etc Women ) for males' attention and you are about economy in return ::)
Is a good part of the 'craving' not linked to economy?
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Is a good part of the 'craving' not linked to economy?
Well of course because in majority cases if you can't get what you want at your place ( for free) you should go overseas to get it (for money) And what exactly would be that place you are moving to in your searching depends on economy
But 'craving" itself does not linked to exactly economy because America ( for example) and Russia have different economies, but Women now are searching for males' attention abroad in both countries.
Ok I can presume both cases have differen reasons May be it's our economy is such bad that turns males itno lazy drankards or may be your western economy is too good that allows women to be too independent due to wich they lose males' attention - don;t know But all after all there is a lack of that attention because of what women go to "Turkeys" all round the world now.
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When I kicked off this thread, it was partly out of boredom. Here was a news article that would start up some sort of discussion, who knows where it would lead.
Partly because of Elen's comments, I have since refered back to my UW. She tells me that many of her colleagues have had bad liaisons with visiting western men, and have found much better treatment with Turkish men. And they are accessible by them on their own terms as the visiting partner, in a good climate, and beautiful locations. A permanent relationship is not assumed, or indeed sought.
This sounds very sensible. They are, in effect, adopting the behaviour of free women in the west, which is the very thing that women from the FSU do share with women in the west, freedom to choose their own life style and destiny, albeit under greater financial restraints. I suspect some western men forget a woman's choice is to be respected, and export the bad habits that did them no good in their own home countries.
I guess to some (arrogant) western men, this might be a bit of a shock, assuming that men from developing nations, possibly of Islam even, can offer all that a free woman might require.
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But 'craving" itself does not linked to exactly economy because America (for example) and Russia have different economies, but Women now are searching for males' attention abroad in both countries.....May be it's our economy is such bad that turns males into lazy drankards...
Since the numbers of FSUW "searching for males' attention abroad" seem to be proportionally MUCH higher than elsewhere, may we conclude that the ROOT of the problem lies in FSU males and their attitude/behaviour to their female compatriots ? (I am just trying to come to some tangible conclusion, based on your "insider's" view).
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Russian woman killed, Turkish man wounded in Turkey bar
I don't know about any of you but I wouldn't be caught dead in a bar full of turkeys! All those feathers, crap everywhere, the gobbling noise! No Way.... ;D
Ken
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Gobbling noises?
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Gobbling noises?
Turkeys make gobbling noises: "Gobble Gobble Gobble"
Thanksgiving cartoons and shows... turkeys..... noises..... ::)
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"Gobbling" has a particular, slang, meaning in UK English. ;) If you wish/need to know more, I'll message you, for the sake of common decency.
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"Gobbling" has a particular, slang, meaning in UK English. ;) If you wish/need to know more, I'll message you, for the sake of common decency.
Oooooh . . . I bet I can guess. ::)
Heh. Good to know.
~Boar
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Yeah, there is a slang meaning here too.
Was (for one of the very few times in my life) not speaking from the "gutter"... Amazing how many simple sayings have multiple cross-over meanings... ;D
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Partly because of Elen's comments, I have since refered back to my UW. She tells me that many of her colleagues have had bad liaisons with visiting western men, and have found much better treatment with Turkish men. And they are accessible by them on their own terms as the visiting partner, in a good climate, and beautiful locations. A permanent relationship is not assumed, or indeed sought.
This sounds very sensible. They are, in effect, adopting the behaviour of free women in the west, which is the very thing that women from the FSU do share with women in the west, freedom to choose their own life style and destiny, albeit under greater financial restraints. I suspect some western men forget a woman's choice is to be respected, and export the bad habits that did them no good in their own home countries.
I guess to some (arrogant) western men, this might be a bit of a shock, assuming that men from developing nations, possibly of Islam even, can offer all that a free woman might require.
Anyone that has been to Turkey for any amount of time can probably attest that they are a proud and even beautiful folk. Although I look mostly at women when I'm there (and there are very many beautiful Turkish women), I can imagine that the men are also considered quite good looking. Must be that swarthy med look and maybe the moustache that 'so tickles' ;D
Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain.. heck any country along the Med are nice playgrounds for men and women alike. It's not only physical looks but a very open 'easy come-easy go' mentality that contributes as well. Deadlines, schedules, project timelines.. who needs 'em? There's always 'Tomorrow'. LOL
That's why I love living here and probably a factor that my wife found attractive.
BTW I wouldn't classify Turkey as a 'developing nation'.. they have a very vibrant economy and can offer just about anything you will ever need. Yes 98% of the population is Muslim but you will hardly notice it among the mini-skirts in the larger cities and tourist areas.
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and there are very many beautiful Turkish women
Best example was Azra Akin, miss world in 2002...
http://www.turkjapan2003.org/pride3.asp
For these who have interest in Turkish women, take a look at http://hosmubosmu.net/
Sample of a 19 year old turkish woman :
(http://hosmubosmu.net/images/pictures/7004-9275.jpg)
A little older, 30 year old turkish woman :
(http://hosmubosmu.net/images/pictures/5440-7202.jpg)
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Why would any intelligent RW go to Turkey? That country is known to have sex slave rings exporting girls out to other countries.
Because they share the same religion and family values for example? Why would intelligent woman will go to US?
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Perhaps I am wrong but isn't Turkey mostly Muslim and isn't Russia mostly Orthodox. I have heard some women saying that Russian men don't treat their women well and are not faithful. (I know some are not that way at all) I have heard Turkish men are worse and treat their women like property and have little respect for woman.) Why would an intelligent woman go to the US. Because she is intelligent. ;D
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The Turkish women are stunning. I pulled up the webstie and looked at it. is there a website in English?
Beattledog
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Maybe you can start your own site Beattle, TWD, Turkish women discussion. Yes, they are very beautiful, at least the ones pictured here. I was in Baku early this summer and a lot of the women there are Turkish by nationality. There are some stunners.
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Perhaps I am wrong but isn't Turkey mostly Muslim and isn't Russia mostly Orthodox.
The Patriarch of Constantinople is the Ecumenical Patriarch, ranking as the "first among equals" - primus inter pares in Latin - in the Eastern Orthodox communion, which is seen by followers as the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church.
In addition to being the spiritual leader of 300 million Orthodox Christians worldwide, he is the direct administrative superior of diocese and archdioceses serving millions of Greek, Ukrainian, Carpatho-Russian, and Albanian Orthodox in North and South America, and Western Europe (where his flock consists mainly of the Greek, Slavic and other Balkanic diaspora), Australia and New Zealand, Hong Kong, Southeast Asia, and Korea, as well as portions of modern Greece.
Actual Patriarch : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_Bartholomew_I_of_Constantinople
For information, Constantinople is Istambul in Turkey !!! Maybe this explain the link between Turkey and orthodox from FSU
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The Turkish women are stunning. I pulled up the webstie and looked at it. is there a website in English?
Beattledog
Try http://turkishpersonals.com/ ... a lot of lady from Turkish origine... some living already in US or Europe...
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Wow, Turkish women look stunning. Thanks for the linkup there. Of course, if you get a Russian Turkish lady (e.g. Armenian or Uzbek), you can get the best of both worlds.
Then again, I can reserve my judgment otherwise for another day of rest perhaps?
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Wow, Turkish women look stunning.
You have stunning women everywhere in the world... same in USA... the main problem is find a women who is stunning on the outside and inside, and who accept to be your wife...
These forum is related to FSU women but i don't see any valid reason to limit your choice to FSU country... Simply make some selection in the begin related to color of skin, physical ( a men of 1m60 will probably not seek a woman of 2m ), religion, etc... Once you know what you wish, seek in every country where it is possible to find the desired woman...
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You are most correct. There are woman in all countries, that are beautiful both inside and outside. a man should take his time to find such a woman
beattledog
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Perhaps I am wrong but isn't Turkey mostly Muslim and isn't Russia mostly Orthodox. I have heard some women saying that Russian men don't treat their women well and are not faithful. (I know some are not that way at all) I have heard Turkish men are worse and treat their women like property and have little respect for woman.) Why would an intelligent woman go to the US. Because she is intelligent. ;D
Russia mostly atheistic. I was living in Muslim region, so there were a lot of girls who married men -Turks
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You have stunning women everywhere in the world... same in USA... the main problem is find a women who is stunning on the outside and inside, and who accept to be your wife...
These forum is related to FSU women but i don't see any valid reason to limit your choice to FSU country... Simply make some selection in the begin related to color of skin, physical ( a men of 1m60 will probably not seek a woman of 2m ), religion, etc... Once you know what you wish, seek in every country where it is possible to find the desired woman...
However trying to find a woman in Brazil, FSU and Turkey and Australia at the same time is impossible.
Find a place where there are a pool of potential women, and search there. After much thought I choosed FSU and not Brazil.
I agre with your first paragraph completely, however...most of us just want...well...everything!
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Perhaps I am wrong but isn't Turkey mostly Muslim and isn't Russia mostly Orthodox.
I just looked up the official statistic. Here is the summary.
"although modern Turkey is a secular republic, Islam is the religion of 98% of the population of Turkey"
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Indeed, but one needs to keep in mind that Turkey's Muslim ideas are different than say, a more fundamentalistic type of Islam in Iran or Pakistan. Most of the women don't wear the veil and in fact, the fez and veil are pretty much banned under Turkish law.
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Indeed, but one needs to keep in mind that Turkey's Muslim ideas are different than say, a more fundamentalistic type of Islam in Iran or Pakistan. Most of the women don't wear the veil and in fact, the fez and veil are pretty much banned under Turkish law.
Muslim in Turkey are the almost perfect example of moderm Muslim... Yes, women don't wear the veil ( except some very old women ) and wear the mini-skirt... on the beach, mono-kini or fully naked is not rare...
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Bruno,
As far as the major cities go and tourist areas you are quite right. As you go into the smaller rural towns and villages this changes quite a bit tending more towards traditional dress. I've been right up to the Syrian border and it's a world apart from Istanbul. Modern dress is tolerated even in the 'boonies' but I don't know if I would walk around nude.. especially if not circumcised.. they are experts there.
hmm.. just a thought but maybe circumcision plays a small role when it comes to preferences?
;D
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Well, it would be nearly impossible to find me naked in public. It's not my style. Plus there isn't any advantages for me in any dept. there ;D ;D ;D
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Yes, I have found that they are all different kinds of Muslin's. I had always thought that most of them were like the Muslin's of Iraq, Iran, etc. I was wrong, but not about the fanatics.
beattledog
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And the worst thing is that the nutcases always have good PR so they get more attention.
It was like the crazy militia guys back in the 1990's I remember as a kid. Timmy McVeigh, Nichols, and the crazy kids stuck in the Montana forest.
Fanatics are everywhere. They want attention for their ideas so they get it by doing something extreme. Quite pitiful.
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Sorry to change the subject but what happened to all the churches during communism? They were just left standing for their beauty? I have heard that religion was frowned upon during the cold war era.
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some of them were destroyed some turned into storages, some were and are churches
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Thank you, it is a pity that these beautiful churches were mostly dormant for many years. I am very thankful they were left standing because there is so much beauty to be seen.
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Perhaps, these churches will start to be used again.
Beattledog
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Indeed, I think that religion is a growing phenom in Russia and other republics. With glasnost in full effect. It will be tough to shake off the secularism however. I wonder how the religion will differ from the days of the tsar...
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The churches of Kyiv, with a little history.
http://www.on-the-matrix.com/europe/ukr_kiev_churches.asp
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Indeed, I think that religion is a growing phenom in Russia and other republics. With glasnost in full effect. It will be tough to shake off the secularism however. I wonder how the religion will differ from the days of the tsar...
phenomen yeah ::) indeed. Religion returnes - and morality droppes ::)
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Perhaps, these churches will start to be used again.
Beattledog
What do you mean by will start? What could be saved was under restoration ages ago. We had very nice cathedral in the center of city which was abandoned for years, then they decided to make a music hall out of it and place organ in it, but with the change of times it became cathedral again. It happened almost 20 years ago and it was quite common at that time..
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What do you mean by will start? What could be saved was under restoration ages ago. We had very nice cathedral in the center of city which was abandoned for years, then they decided to make a music hall out of it and place organ in it, but with the change of times it became cathedral again. It happened almost 20 years ago and it was quite common at that time..
Not more than two hours ago I watched a program on The History Channel. Something about religion, and the believe in a heaven and a hell. The stat that they threw out was that there are over 1 billion people today who do not claim to have a religion, practice one, or have a religious belief. The majority of those 1 billion are now living in either the FSU and China.
Peevee
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The majority of those 1 billion are now living in either the FSU and China.
.........and approaching 50% of the UK and Western Europe. 2 things that separate the UK and US (apart from population, dentistry and a common language) are the love of God (or otherwise) and social democracy.
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.........and approaching 50% of the UK and Western Europe. 2 things that separate the UK and US (apart from population, dentistry and a common language) are the love of God (or otherwise) and social democracy.
Off topic but I spotted that arch that is depicted in your avitar when one of my flights was on approach into Heathrow the other day? What is that? It seemed that it was located near to a stadium of some sort.
Peevee
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Approach to Heathrow??? It's 300 miles away!
http://www.gateshead.gov.uk/Leisure%20and%20Culture/bridge/Background.aspx
In the year of it's construction, it won the UK's premier architecture prize. (and I've just found a new avitar).
Stadium to the North, the home of one of England's greatest soccer (to you) clubs....
http://www.stadiumguide.com/saintjamespark.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.
Stadium to the South..athletics, home of a number of national and world records over the years. Take a vitual tour....
http://online.gateshead.gov.uk/virtualtours/gis_java.aspx
Enjoy.
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Who let a geordie in? ;D
But I did once have a very foxy girlfriend from West Denton! - but the drive from Manchester was a killer!
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Read my reply to you on another thread.
Me a Geordie? Born Kingston-upon-Thames, raised London and Somerset. Lived/worked in Wiltshire/Southampton/Denmark/Spain/Cumbria before moving to Newcastle aged 29. That makes me........confused!
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Manchester, please tell me you're a Man U fan. It will easier to dislike you. ;)
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Approach to Heathrow??? It's 300 miles away!
http://www.gateshead.gov.uk/Leisure%20and%20Culture/bridge/Background.aspx
In the year of it's construction, it won the UK's premier architecture prize. (and I've just found a new avitar).
Stadium to the North, the home of one of England's greatest soccer (to you) clubs....
http://www.stadiumguide.com/saintjamespark.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newcastle_United_F.C.
Stadium to the South..athletics, home of a number of national and world records over the years. Take a vitual tour....
http://online.gateshead.gov.uk/virtualtours/gis_java.aspx
Enjoy.
Hmmm, I suspect that I have good eyes then. I was just about over that ferriswheel which located on the Thames. I looked across the river and spotted an arch, simular to that, about 2 miles distance.
Peevee
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Was it this PeeWee..........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Millennium_Bridge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/millennium_bridge/default.stm
(The other 'inferior' Millenium Bridge) ::)
....or could it have been a conventional bridge. (The 'arch' was across the river?)
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Off topic but I spotted that arch that is depicted in your avitar when one of my flights was on approach into Heathrow the other day? What is that? It seemed that it was located near to a stadium of some sort.
Peevee
Peewee,
Didn't you notice that your flight was being diverted to St. Louis?
;D
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Manchester, please tell me you're a Man U fan. It will easier to dislike you. ;)
I dont do football! - I prefer women! ;D (and women prefer men who dont do football)
I didnt follow the link but saw "gateshead" and assumed it was tyne & wear in Geordie Land, thus I assumed that you were a Geordie! (which for the bemused US reader is an inhabitant of Newcastle Upon Tyne and surrounding area)
Now I know what thought did! ;D
Kenny Everet once said about thought - It tripped over a milk crate and thought it has found a cows nest!
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Manchester is back? :D
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Who is manchester?
beattledog
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No idea. A guy from England I believe. The Manchster region perhaps?
He is the sort to enjoy needling moi :)
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Not more than two hours ago I watched a program on The History Channel. Something about religion, and the believe in a heaven and a hell. The stat that they threw out was that there are over 1 billion people today who do not claim to have a religion, practice one, or have a religious belief. The majority of those 1 billion are now living in either the FSU and China.
Peevee
Why did you quote my post? I don’t see any connection. Yes, they rebuild or renovate churches and cathedrals, but it has nothing to do with religious believes of the people, mostly they were atheistic and they still are.
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Why did you quote my post? I don’t see any connection. Yes, they rebuild or renovate churches and cathedrals, but it has nothing to do with religious believes of the people, mostly they were atheistic and they still are.
Then why were the churches rebuilt if most are atheistic? Acutally that is what I said. The majority of non belivers live in the FSU countries and in China.
Peevee
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Then why were the churches rebuilt if most are atheistic?
So curches are historical monument, building who attract tourist... and tourism is a income of money ( for believer or atheist ).
Nobody believe in the numerous egyptian Gods, but some atheist renovate the old egyptian temple to allow you to spend money when you are visiting them... do you have visit egypt during you last stay ? :P
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So curches are historical monument, building who attract tourist... and tourism is a income of money ( for believer or atheist ).
Nobody believe in the numerous egyptian Gods, but some atheist renovate the old egyptian temple to allow you to spend money when you are visiting them... do you have visit egypt during you last stay ? :P
I don't completely follow your logic there, Bruno. What I read into the statistic that over 1 billion souls do not have or believe in a religion with the majority of those people living in the FSU and China is that communisim devistated religion in those countries. The anti-Christ. Chruches are built for those few who do believe and wish to have a place to worship. With regard to Egypt. Most of the antiquites there have not been restored by anyone. More like dystroyed by everyone.
I told my friend Aymen, an Egyptian businessman friend of mine, that the Pharohs had left a great legacy for the people of Egypt. Those monuments, artifacts and tombs will provide a weath of income to the present day and future Egyptians in far greater amounts than even the Pharohs themselves could have hoped to accumulate.
Peevee
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I don't completely follow your logic there, Bruno...
It is not a logic but more a fact...
By example, take the moscow St Basil on the red square :
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?ind=gallery&op=foto_show&ida=27
You have more tourist who visit it that believer...
I see the same in the Ghent cathedral in Belgium :
(http://www.1800getryan.com/uploads/gent/P9050035.JPG)
Place for several thounsand of believer... but ceremony are make in the catacombe, in a little place, if you find 50 believer for ceremony, it is a lot... but in the cathedral itself, you can find several hundred of tourist...
Take a look at http://www.law.ugent.be/pub/iuap/c_images.html ... several of these monument was from religious origine... but it is the city administration ( non believer ) who pay for the restauration... and the tourist business who earn a lot...
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Turkey, Greece, Italy, Spain.. heck any country along the Med are nice playgrounds for men and women alike. It's not only physical looks but a very open 'easy come-easy go' mentality that contributes as well. Deadlines, schedules, project timelines.. who needs 'em? There's always 'Tomorrow'. LOL
That's why I love living here and probably a factor that my wife found attractive.
BC
Give me Greece any time......I love it there.........and the Greeks say of course:
"there is nothing that important that can't wait for tommorrow!"
Just looking to go back there next month AGAIN......
PS:
In reply to a previous comment, many Russian and Ukrainian women go to Turkey because they do not need a VISA and of course then they cross illegally to Greece to work.
Greece is full everywhere with working girls (prostitutes)..............mostly from the above two nations and also Romania, Bulgaria, Moldova etc. Bodrum in Turkey is well known transport centre.
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Was it this PeeWee..........
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Millennium_Bridge
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/uk/2000/millennium_bridge/default.stm
(The other 'inferior' Millenium Bridge) ::)
....or could it have been a conventional bridge. (The 'arch' was across the river?)
PEEWEE is right
What he saw was the NEW Wembley stadium arch.........
http://www.luzonet.com/magazine/mag12/beststadiums.htm
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That arch looks very interesting. Makes me want to go over there and visit for sure!
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PEEWEE is right
What he saw was the NEW Wembley stadium arch.........
http://www.luzonet.com/magazine/mag12/beststadiums.htm
Thanks, Wizer. That is what I spotted.
Peevee
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Talking about destroyng antiquites. My understanding is this is true. Back 100 years ago or so there were so many mummys that they were used to as fuel in some of the trains.
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Talking about destroyng antiquites. My understanding is this is true. Back 100 years ago or so there were so many mummys that they were used to as fuel in some of the trains.
Maybe, but I think they were just using dead people. The city is populated by 18 million people. There is a section of Cairo called "The City of the Dead." There are a lot of old graveyards there that have been paved over for streets and freeways and office building and homes have been built over them all. We might find that unusual here in the US but because we are a new country and there seems to be plenty of space for graveyards then we may never see the day when we find the need to pave over a cemetary.
Here is the real story regarding mummys and train fuel. http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020222.html
Peevee
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Thanks for the "Straight Dope" PeeVee. I could swear that what ever I read or saw on the subject had photos of mummys used for fuel or perhaps even a grainy black and white movie of it, like maybe the history channel of something but the memory is way back in my memory bank along with other obsure memories like what I had for breakfast today.
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We spent time in Germany, and they were great to us...
Spent a while in France....and well the French are French.. what can you say?
Spent time in the UK... Bowden near Altringhan (Cheshire) lived on the old Roman Road! and a year in wellingboro, Nothants....and these people adopted us.... They showed us their country and taught us their history....All those wonderful neighbors are long gone.. but not forgotten.
I wasn't at all ready to come home! :) I have a big heart full of great memories....
Mamma D
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PEEWEE is right
What he saw was the NEW Wembley stadium arch.........
http://www.luzonet.com/magazine/mag12/beststadiums.htm
Well, there you go. It is so long since I left, or even visited London, that this wonder is not even on my radar.
At the risk of being boring, but with an mind to the topic, this explains well why I have had a 'negative' attitude to Turkey, which I have had to contain in the company of my UW (Kurdish bomb attacks I can live with.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5285726.stm
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http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/terror/29-08-2006/84133-explosions_turkey-0
http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/28-08-2006/84112-marmaris-0
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http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/terror/29-08-2006/84133-explosions_turkey-0
http://english.pravda.ru/news/hotspots/28-08-2006/84112-marmaris-0
This reminded me of the airport like security proceedures now in place at Cairo's Grand Hyatt. Xray, metal detectors, and pat downs all are a part of gaining access to the hotel lobby. I do believe that the city of Cairo has more visible policemen than any other city in the world.
Peevee
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Peewee, if you had traveled to other parts of Egypt you'd see the same metal detectors outside many of the hotels, most are not in use. Of course they aren't useful in detecting explosives so they're more for show. It's also common to have heavily armed "tourist police" at all significant tourist areas. We stayed on the Red sea and any excursions (we went to both Cairo and Luxor) were done convoy style with 50 or more busses and several pickup trucks full of armed "police" with automatic weapons.
Of course considering that bribery is widespead, I'm not sure I feel that safe.
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Spent time in the UK... Bowden near Altringhan (Cheshire) lived on the old Roman Road!
That is Altrincham, (20 mins from me) and that is a very expensive district now (probably then too?) - If you live on Bowden, you have serious cash! ;D
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Whoa, he's back!?! ::)
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Whoa, he's back!?! ::)
You just noticed Alfie? I had to come back to do some troll chasing! :D
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Sweet, however, you aren't going to get any trolling here. This is a serious forum you know.
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Sweet, however, you aren't going to get any trolling here. This is a serious forum you know.
Well I see your behaviour is quite constructive (at times!) on here rather than that other place that shall remain nameless. I am glad you have re thought your modus operandi. Perhaps we shall make more of an effort on here with each other eh Alfie? ;D - Heres the deal, dont troll and I wont be able to highlight it eh? :D
However, that said, the topic up for discussion is not where I may or may not be, it is "Russian girls abandon their nation in need?"