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Author Topic: The Netflix Documentary Love Me  (Read 27781 times)

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Offline LiveFromUkraine

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The Netflix Documentary Love Me
« Reply #25 on: April 30, 2015, 09:49:34 PM »
Miquel, why don't you and the missus start traveling to other countries and experiencing the differences.  Much better to learn about these wonderful cultures in person.   :D

Offline RoboCop

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« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2015, 12:38:39 AM »
Just saw the trailer for the documentary, it looks intersting. Going to try to watch it by the end of the week.

I don't want to form any preconceived notions before watching it, but I will say based on what I've seen so far, most of the guys strike me as either naive, or just plain desperate.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 12:45:11 AM by RoboCop »
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Offline cc3

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« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2015, 02:38:33 AM »

 If you believe taking a chance on finding love is brave, then virtually everyone, world over, who is not in an arranged marriage, is brave.  Most people world over who marry take the chance that love won't fade.

+100!

Offline Miquel Westano

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« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2015, 07:22:40 AM »

First, sorry for the loss of your daughter.  I cannot think of anything more painful than losing a child.




If you believe taking a chance on finding love is brave, then virtually everyone, world over, who is not in an arranged marriage, is brave.  Most people world over who marry take the chance that love won't fade.

Thanks for the thoughts on my daughter.  Her name was Sarah and she was 23.  I don't want to get to far into this.  Even 9 years later it hurts.  But just so you know, we took her off a respirator, I held her in my lap and she passed after almost an hour of holding her.  Still to this day I can't forget that feeling when the life left her body.  That was a tough year dealing with whether we should have kept her on that machine and in pain or not.  Playing God is something I never want to do again.  I probably will not discuss her anymore. 

I am not the best at written communications, so maybe I am not making clear the second point. 

I understand your side, but somewhat disagree.  These guys are not for the most part people who have succeeded at romance, or are able to just approach someone in a club or other social event.  Most of them lay awake at night and dream of love but are too afraid to act on this desire.  To finally step up and go abroad looking for love is brave for them. 

I think it is harder for people here to appreciate this since they either have already done it, are in the process of doing it or are seriously planning it.  The average poster here is not the average heavy guy setting at home playing video games and dreaming of love.  Most people here are more of action types and less of the dreaming type.  That's all I am saying.  I am not comparing these guys to EMT's or firefighters.  Certainly not to soldiers or especially to the guys here who have already done it.  But in their world what they did was brave. 

A friend of mine is 62.  That is two years older than me.  He would cut off his leg for a good relationship with a good lady.  But he is overweight, under funded and like me barely got out of high school.  We both went straight to the military. 

He was with me when I asked my wife on our first date in '79.  We were at a restaurant and she was a waitress.  He has never been able to ask a girl out.  I had my date before the burgers came.  I think I could get on that plane tomorrow, meet a nice lady and ask her out with no agency involvement.  I don't think if Elena herself was holding his hand, and hand picked the lady, my friend could mumble the words to ask her out.

I don't think those guys are super heroes, but I think in their world they stepped up and I admire them for it.  There are tons of other things that scare the hell out of me.  I try to face them, but the guys who are afraid of rejection have a harder time than you may think.  Twice I set my buddy up to meet a nice girl.  Twice he got sick and cancelled.  As the old saying goes, I know he was scared-he knows-and he knows I know.  But we just don't talk about it and I don't match make anymore.

Sorry for the blabbing.  I will try to read more and post less.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 08:11:22 AM by Miquel Westano »

Offline Miquel Westano

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« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2015, 07:25:35 AM »
Miquel, why don't you and the missus start traveling to other countries and experiencing the differences.  Much better to learn about these wonderful cultures in person.   :D

I own a small shop and have zero employees.  My goal is to sell it in a few years and the Eastern Europe trip is something we are talking about.  That is why I am trying to learn Russian, studying the culture and trying to broaden my knowledge of the area. 

I am a little scared of the Ukraine girls though.  John Lennon said they really knocked him out.  Sounds like they must have a great left hook.  Or, a big frying pan! 

Offline Anotherkiwi

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« Reply #30 on: May 02, 2015, 10:31:31 PM »
I am a little scared of the Ukraine girls though.  John Lennon said they really knocked him out.  Sounds like they must have a great left hook.  Or, a big frying pan!

Lennon and McCartney did "Back in the USSR" almost as a homage to the Beach Boys and their "California Girls."

"And the Southern girls with the way they talk
 They knock me out when I'm down there"

Offline RoboCop

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« Reply #31 on: May 03, 2015, 06:47:56 AM »
I own a small shop and have zero employees.  My goal is to sell it in a few years and the Eastern Europe trip is something we are talking about.  That is why I am trying to learn Russian, studying the culture and trying to broaden my knowledge of the area. 

I am a little scared of the Ukraine girls though.  John Lennon said they really knocked him out.  Sounds like they must have a great left hook.  Or, a big frying pan!

I am curious Miquel, what is up with the sudden interest in the FSU? Understandable most men on this forum are either looking for, or have a wife/fiance/girlfriend from the FSU. It does strike me as somewhat odd for a 60 year old male with a family, to develop a sudden interest in this region.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm probably asking myself the same question most men are asking about when they read your posts: Are you hoping to get some FSU tail? There is nothing wrong with that, or at least allowing your imagination to run wild.
Married 3 years now, with a 2 year old son. Wife is from Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan.

Offline Miquel Westano

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« Reply #32 on: May 03, 2015, 07:19:47 AM »
I am curious Miquel, what is up with the sudden interest in the FSU? Understandable most men on this forum are either looking for, or have a wife/fiance/girlfriend from the FSU. It does strike me as somewhat odd for a 60 year old male with a family, to develop a sudden interest in this region.

I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I'm probably asking myself the same question most men are asking about when they read your posts: Are you hoping to get some FSU tail? There is nothing wrong with that, or at least allowing your imagination to run wild.

I am not offended at all.  I actually am not as fascinated with the FSU women as with the idea of people searching the world for love, taking big risk and making huge lifestyle changes.  But obviously they wouldn't be doing it if FSU women didn't have a lot to offer.  Remember though, I am just as in awe of the woman leaving her world as I am in the man.  In many ways despite the implications  by the media that the man is taking all the risk, I think the woman is risking more.  These women are very brave in my opinion.

This all started when I begin to try to understand what was going on in Russia and Ukraine and what the fighting was about.  I am a history addict, but always interested in American history and almost exclusively from the Civil War to present.  I realized I didn't even know where Ukraine was.  I had to look on a world map.  Then I started reading articles about the war and found out more and more about the fighting.  My wife and I were watching a YouTube video about MOB's with Lisa Ling and we thought it was interesting.  I think that one was Columbia and some guy named David and a lady named Maria. 

We watched some more and that of course quickly led to Ukraine and soon we were hooked on 90 Day Fiancé. 

I realized I don't know any foreign language which got me started studying Russian and that eventually led me to this and one other site while surfing.  I enjoy this site.  I like to interact with people and think I can learn a lot from folks who have actually been there.  In Missouri, at least where I live, the number of Russian or Ukrainian people is limited.

Hopefully I will not be a pest.  As to the tail question .  I am telling the complete truth when I say sexual fantasies are not on the agenda.  I am quite sure I will be with my wife until one of us passes and that divorce and or flings are not going to be part of my life.  At this point in my life, I have all the complications and challenges I need plus I am quite happy in my marriage. 

If you have more questions, PM me or put them up.  As long as I don't bore people I will be happy to answer. 


Offline BdHvA

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« Reply #33 on: May 03, 2015, 10:46:10 AM »
MW, Rarely are people so lucid about there loss, my condolences for your loss.

For what it is worth, there is a minor French documentary~humour film from I think the end of the 90's

It regarded a suave French man who meets I think on line a Russian woman, living in I want to say Siberia, he travels to meet her and she is in fact a pro-dater and it seems he makes every mistake he can (argues with a policeman, gets drunk, loses his baggage, etc.)

In the end as I remember he meets an honest woman and I think they move to his chateau in France. It was half Woody Allen and half Michael Moore. I saw it so long ago and I only remember a few sections.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2015, 11:44:16 AM by BdHvA »
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #34 on: May 03, 2015, 11:15:07 AM »
I am not offended at all.  I actually am not as fascinated with the FSU women as with the idea of people searching the world for love, taking big risk and making huge lifestyle changes.  But obviously they wouldn't be doing it if FSU women didn't have a lot to offer. 


That's a nice way to state it, but I don't think it is accurate.  It's about economic disparity, mostly.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Miquel Westano

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« Reply #35 on: May 03, 2015, 02:14:03 PM »
MW, Rarely are people so lucid about there loss, my condolences for your loss.

For what it is worth, there is a minor French documentary~humour film from I think the end of the 90's

It regarded a suave French man who meets I think on line a Russian woman, living in I want to say Siberia, he travels to meet her and she is in fact a pro-dater and it seems he makes every mistake he can (argues with a policeman, gets drunk, loses his baggage, etc.)

In the end as I remember he meets an honest woman and I think they move to his chateau in France. It was half Woody Allen and half Michael Moore. I saw it so long ago and I only remember a few sections.

First thank you for your thoughts.  I appreciate them.

Second I will try to hunt that down and see if I can find it available to watch.  it sounds good and like something my wife and I would enjoy.




Offline LiveFromUkraine

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« Reply #36 on: May 03, 2015, 02:52:15 PM »

That's a nice way to state it, but I don't think it is accurate.  It's about economic disparity, mostly.


This is more the reality of the situation, Miquel.


Many of the guys, in this adventure, are marrying women that don't even speak English.  I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be able to fall in love if I couldn't have conversations with the woman.  Lust, sure, love, nope.  Yet this is very common.  No doubt some of these arrangements can turn into love once meaningful conversations start to occur.  Many of the guys are simply happy enough for their women to understand simple words like vacuum, dinner, and/or sexy time.   :P

Offline Steamer

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« Reply #37 on: May 03, 2015, 08:06:30 PM »

That's a nice way to state it, but I don't think it is accurate.  It's about economic disparity, mostly.




If it was about economic disparity (mostly) we'd only need to hang around some bar near a trailer park to find a woman. No, there's a lot more going on than that.
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #38 on: May 03, 2015, 09:21:18 PM »
You're not going to Poland, or the Czech Republic, or the Baltic Republics, or Slovenia.  You (meaning a general "you", not you in particular) started in Russia, then, when things improved there economically, you moved to Ukraine and the "stans".   So of course it is about economic disparity. 


AW in trailer parks won't generally entertain the thought of marrying men 15, 20, or 30 years older than they are. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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« Reply #39 on: May 03, 2015, 09:54:39 PM »
AW in trailer parks won't generally entertain the thought of marrying men 15, 20, or 30 years older than they are.



If men are going to the FSU for much younger and attractive women as you imply, then economic disparity isn't their #1 reason to marry an FSU woman. Most men who go to the FSU come home empty handed. We just discussed this in another thread. Women there aren't so willing to jump into marriage with a man simply because he's got more money than they and living in a country with more financial security. The odds of a Western man marrying an FSU woman are dismal. FSU women want love, financial security, and a healthy future for their kids in a marriage the same as Western women, not more, not less. I think Slavic women are the most attractive in the world. That's why I went there. Had nothing to do with them being poorer than I. Not every man can afford to find a woman overseas. For those who can, we have more options to find a superior woman and it's not wise not to take advantage of those options.


If it was about economic disparity (mostly) we'd only need to hang around some bar near a trailer park to find a woman.



I've seen women in trailer parks and if they were as attractive as Slavic women, I'd be hanging around there instead of the FSU.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

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« Reply #40 on: May 03, 2015, 11:02:51 PM »
The Love Me show was an amazing insight into the other side of this process.  Most of those guys were doomed to failure from the start.  They were mostly out of their league, out of their comfort zone, relying on someone to do the work for them, expecting to buy a bride, thinking they were the saviors of poor ignorant women and totally unaware of how to read the interest of the ladies they were meeting.  I have a better chemistry with women I see in grocery store checkout lines than these guys do with their "dates".


I've never been to a social, but you could still probably classify me as a vet
regarding pursuing an FSUW. I watched a little over half of the movie on
Netflix but I couldn't finish it. There were several total train wrecks in the
making.

FSU women are not for entry level daters or for people without social skills,
and not for the gullible.

I think that if anyone could learn something from the documentary it's that
you shouldn't marry somebody you don't know hoping that all the stars will
align at some future date.
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

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« Reply #41 on: May 04, 2015, 07:35:45 AM »
I've seen women in trailer parks and if they were as attractive as Slavic women, I'd be hanging around there instead of the FSU.

You won't find a single + educated + attractive + intelligent woman in a trailer park.
You can find them all over the FSU.
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline RoboCop

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« Reply #42 on: May 04, 2015, 08:37:18 AM »
You're not going to Poland, or the Czech Republic, or the Baltic Republics, or Slovenia.  You (meaning a general "you", not you in particular) started in Russia, then, when things improved there economically, you moved to Ukraine and the "stans".   So of course it is about economic disparity. 


AW in trailer parks won't generally entertain the thought of marrying men 15, 20, or 30 years older than they are.

I'm willing to concede there is an element of economic disparity amongst men who pursue women from the FSU, whether or not the intention of most men travelling overseas is to take advantage of this when pursuing a girl, is a different thing all together. The truth is, when it comes to courtship and dating, men are nearly always expected to have a higher earning capacity than the girl. This economic disparity--where the man is expected to be wealthier than the girl--exists in nearly all cultures, and why should it be any different in the FSU?

To imply that it is only about economic disparity, is to insinuate that FSU women are gold diggers, willing to do an Anna Nicole Smith on unsuspecting WM; and that all WM are suckers lacking social acuity.

The picture you paint makes it sound like both parties lack scurples.

FSU women = Gold digger willing to marry man 20 years her senior.

Western Male = Desperate loser who can't get laid, taking advantage of impoverished women from some dilapidated third world country.
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Offline Boethius

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« Reply #43 on: May 04, 2015, 08:42:58 AM »
No, not that they are golddiggers.  You have probably never been poor, with no hope of escaping an environment where your life choices will always be limited by the society you live in.  So, she trades what she has - youth and beauty - to further her station in life. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Miquel Westano

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« Reply #44 on: May 04, 2015, 09:48:53 AM »
I'm willing to concede there is an element of economic disparity amongst men who pursue women from the FSU, whether or not the intention of most men travelling overseas is to take advantage of this when pursuing a girl, is a different thing all together. The truth is, when it comes to courtship and dating, men are nearly always expected to have a higher earning capacity than the girl. This economic disparity--where the man is expected to be wealthier than the girl--exists in nearly all cultures, and why should it be any different in the FSU?

To imply that it is only about economic disparity, is to insinuate that FSU women are gold diggers, willing to do an Anna Nicole Smith on unsuspecting WM; and that all WM are suckers lacking social acuity.

The picture you paint makes it sound like both parties lack scurples.

FSU women = Gold digger willing to marry man 20 years her senior.

Western Male = Desperate loser who can't get laid, taking advantage of impoverished women from some dilapidated third world country.

This is the kind of insight I came here to hear.  See there are two sides to this.

I agree with almost all of this.  There are guys looking to buy a bride, there are women looking to sell themselves, there are good guys looking for good girls and there are naïve people on both sides looking to improve their position in life and assuming the love will develop later.

That is the point I have feebly been trying to make.  I just am not good at putting it in writing.  But there are many girls I believe go into this for economic reasons but still believing they will legitimately fall in love later with their husband.  Some do and some don't, but that doesn't make them scammers.

Whether male or female, rich or poor, smart or stupid; all people go into a relationship looking for something they don't already have.  What they are looking for is as varied as snowflakes.  Sometimes even the people looking don't know what they were really after.  That's why labels rarely fit all packages.

I still think there are more good people following their heart than there are bad people following their lust or greed.  But maybe that is just how I want to think of people, more good than bad.

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« Reply #45 on: May 04, 2015, 10:00:50 AM »
No, they are hoping they will fall in love.  But if you have read many of these stories, or met many so called "MOB", you would see a pattern.  That "love" exists until some calamity occurs - he loses his job and doesn't find a new one soon enough, or he loses his health, or he loses his money.  The "love" that then bound them together disappears, unless he is able to turn things around quickly.  That happens in Western marriages as well, no doubt, but I suppose I am jaded by having seen it much more in FSUW married to WM here.  The marriages that have lasted that I have personally observed are ones where the men were working abroad and met the woman while living there.  Also, almost all the FSUW married to FSUM that I know (there is a large community here) are still married.  I can think of only two that are divorced, in one case, she dumped him and a pre teen son, and he is now married to a WW who raised his son, and in the second, their kids were late teens, and he decided he deserved a younger model.
 
You have to differentiate, as well, between women who have never married and those that are older and divorced, or single with children.  In the latter cases, their options of remarriage in the FSU are generally limited, and that is why they look abroad.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline Miquel Westano

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« Reply #46 on: May 04, 2015, 10:29:32 AM »
No, they are hoping they will fall in love.  But if you have read many of these stories, or met many so called "MOB", you would see a pattern.  That "love" exists until some calamity occurs - he loses his job and doesn't find a new one soon enough, or he loses his health, or he loses his money.  The "love" that then bound them together disappears, unless he is able to turn things around quickly.  That happens in Western marriages as well, no doubt, but I suppose I am jaded by having seen it much more in FSUW married to WM here.  The marriages that have lasted that I have personally observed are ones where the men were working abroad and met the woman while living there.  Also, almost all the FSUW married to FSUM that I know (there is a large community here) are still married.  I can think of only two that are divorced, in one case, she dumped him and a pre teen son, and he is now married to a WW who raised his son, and in the second, their kids were late teens, and he decided he deserved a younger model.
 
You have to differentiate, as well, between women who have never married and those that are older and divorced, or single with children.  In the latter cases, their options of remarriage in the FSU are generally limited, and that is why they look abroad.

Maybe your right.  You have experience and I don't.  I am not sure I even know one single couple where either one is FSU. 

But, even with both people being American and living here, second marriages are much more likely to end in divorce.  I think first marriages are close to a 50% divorce rate nowadays.  So a lot of the divorces probably would have happened whether the guy married a FSU or AW bride.

Anyway, I will just concede the point, but reserve the right to keep my idealistic and somewhat naïve opinion.  Since I am not bride shopping anyway, it really isn't going to hurt me to think well of those who do and those they find.

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« Reply #47 on: May 04, 2015, 11:00:20 AM »
I still think there are more good people following their heart than there are bad people following their lust or greed.  But maybe that is just how I want to think of people, more good than bad.

I think there are more good people than bad too. Watching the video however, most of
the men had no business pursuing the girl that they did. The age and beauty disparity
were far too great. The guy who picked at this toes oblivious that he was being filmed
and didn't have sex with his fiance before getting married was totally crazy.

The far too fat insecure guy who got stood up on the first date but then she showed
up on a later day and he proposed!?!? What an idiot. He was a hundred miles out of
his league.

The guy who never had a girl before!?!? what was he doing in the FSU? that's like
finding a beginning boxer with 2 lessons a nice little fight to the death with Mike Tyson.
Why wouldn't they try blindfolded knife fighting? or maybe roller skating down an
escalator? it's probably not as dangerous. 

The guys in the film pushed the envelope far too far. That's why they were going to find
insincere women.

Here are the main problems that the men made as I see it.
1. They bought into the agency hype.
2. They used a pay by the letter agency
3. They had little dating experience and lacked basic social skills
4. They pursued women far out of their league in both age and beauty 
5. They asked strangers to marry them.
6. They didn't know a single word of Russian
7. They were underfunded
8. They ignored red flags
9. They allowed themselves and their private lives to be filmed. Who
would really want that kind of intrusion/distraction in such a serious
life changing situation?
10. They don't know any of the basics.

If I knew that somebody was going to step on a banana peel, fall and
crack their head open, but I couldn't do anything to stop it, I certainly
wouldn't watch it. The same with this documentary/movie. I am curious
did any of the relationships work out? My guess is that possibly one of
them did, but I would easily believe that none of them did.

« Last Edit: May 04, 2015, 11:02:46 AM by 2tallbill »
FSUW are not for entry level daters
FSUW don't do vague
FSUW like a man of action. Be a man of action 
If you find a promising girl, get your butt on a plane.
There are a hundred ways to be successful and a thousand ways to f#ck it up
Just kiss the girl, don't ask her first. Tolerate NO excuses!

Offline Miquel Westano

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The Netflix Documentary Love Me
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2015, 11:48:37 AM »
I think there are more good people than bad too. Watching the video however, most of
the men had no business pursuing the girl that they did. The age and beauty disparity
were far too great. The guy who picked at this toes oblivious that he was being filmed
and didn't have sex with his fiance before getting married was totally crazy.

*****snipped the middle for space*****

If I knew that somebody was going to step on a banana peel, fall and
crack their head open, but I couldn't do anything to stop it, I certainly
wouldn't watch it. The same with this documentary/movie. I am curious
did any of the relationships work out? My guess is that possibly one of
them did, but I would easily believe that none of them did.

Now I am in total agreement on what you said here.  These guys were heat seeking missiles in search of a burning and most of them found it.  In all of the cases you mentioned the guys were just delusional.  But I still don't think these reflect the average cases.  But maybe they do with agencies like Love Me, aka AFA.

I think these guys were going to fail no matter where or who they pursued.  The foot picking guy was the most funny, gross and pathetic sight. 

I do think the super thin blonde and the Texan may work out, but who knows?  She was way out of his league and I kept looking for scam signs.  But she seemed to really love him.  The other marriage is possibly solid too, but she was an average looking girl in the marriage game and above average here.  He is just the opposite in my book and I think she may tire of him.  Although she did a lot of work by herself and sure seemed into him when she got here.

The space cowboy needs to buy a dog and start going to the park.  He still won't get a girl, but he will get out, lose some weight walking the dog and have a friend.  He was the ultimate chump.  He said he was suspicious?  Wow!

 

Offline BdHvA

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The Netflix Documentary Love Me
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2015, 07:15:22 PM »
. . . You have experience and I don't.  I am not sure I even know one single couple where either one is FSU. . . 

My opinion Boethuis is making a couple good points as does 2tallBill.

What perhaps you should consider doing before crossing an ocean is meet some of those who in this generation who have moved from the former Soviet Union to North America. Seek and you shall find. Speak with them and hear there stories. Some of the preceptions will surprise you others will confirm what has already been written. I suspect they will be willing to share it with you, if you are honest and sincere.
Experierence is not what happens to you. It is what you do with what happens to you. A. Huxley

 

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