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Author Topic: Update - 13 years later  (Read 212917 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #350 on: December 17, 2013, 08:07:43 PM »

Involving yourself in a stranger's relationship is rather pathetic.  Maybe it is time you get a more productive hobby Doll.




[size=78%] [/size] SOME of these women get pretty emotional and upset and let their imagination run wild…yeah LFU  it is rather pathetic to start trying to contact posters wives or ex wives…the beauty of it is when the ex wife tells them to go fly a kite or ignores them. 
 
I find the man’s story interesting, and he appears to be doing a reasonably good job to this point despite the overly emotional outcry from a few that are getting a little too emotionally invested into this man's life.     


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Gator

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #351 on: December 17, 2013, 09:05:29 PM »


If this was the first time, I could see your point of view.  However it isn't.  We will just have to disagree, but don't worry, I won't call your husband.  ;)



 :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL:

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #352 on: December 17, 2013, 09:20:28 PM »
Why would you care who I contact to?
I am connected with hundreds of people though Internet- dare to judge too?
Posting on this board is NOT a productive hobby as well.
(забыла спросить, с кем мне общаться)))


Voicing my opinion about particular behavior isn't the same thing as caring.   Nah, no need for more judging, you seem to have it handled.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #353 on: December 17, 2013, 09:22:58 PM »

Voicing my opinion about particular behavior isn't the same thing as caring.   Nah, no need for more judging, you seem to have it handled.


The funniest part is that she is whining about you judging...when that is precisely what she has done, and more....isn't that the type of behaviour a hypocrite engages in?


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #354 on: December 17, 2013, 09:24:40 PM »



 SOME of these women get pretty emotional and upset and let their imagination run wild…yeah LFU  it is rather pathetic to start trying to contact posters wives or ex wives…the beauty of it is when the ex wife tells them to go fly a kite or ignores them. 
 
I find the man’s story interesting, and he appears to be doing a reasonably good job to this point despite the overly emotional outcry from a few that are getting a little too emotionally invested into this man's life.     


Fathertime!


Unfortunately, this kind of behavior is more and more common.  People don't like what is written and end up getting people fired or trying to mettle in relationships.


I have seen a few cases where a guy has been fired because people didn't like what he wrote online.  It's cowardly behavior.



Offline missAmeno

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #355 on: December 17, 2013, 09:25:44 PM »
The reality however will be very different,,, as boys are getting older,
they certainly don't want to spend every weekend in Oslo the next five years.
I believe that Lena will be very frustrated when she realizes how difficult this will be.
My repeated warnings about the large holes in her plans doesn't get through to her at all.

Northkape, am I right in thinking Lena believes that by having boys on weekends she will have more time with them? Also have Lena thought about alternative arrangements if the ones that planned now will not work for whatever reason?
Are you open to the possibility that with time she could change mind and asks for boys to stay with her through the week?

Quote
Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.
Speak to mods about it now as later it could be not that easy to remove anything as you may think.



Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #356 on: December 17, 2013, 09:32:07 PM »

The funniest part is that she is whining about you judging...when that is precisely what she has done, and more....isn't that the type of behaviour a hypocrite engages in?


Fathertime!


We all judge.  Some moreso than others.   We are all human after all even though some people think they are above human.  The problem is when people escalate these disagreements to a point that could screw up lives. 


This isn't normal behavior.


As I said to GQ, I would be pissed off if some stranger started contacting me.  I don't want unstable people contacting me because they don't like what someone said online. 


 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2013, 09:33:42 PM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline Gator

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #357 on: December 17, 2013, 09:39:48 PM »

The fact that these people are utterly afraid of revealing even the tiniest slice of their own identity,
on the dangerous "open" Internet couldn't bother me less.
But wanting to save total strangers they will never meet, from having their family photos on the "open" Internet,
I have no words for it.
 
Well, Lena hardly believed it either, before I read it aloud for her.
On the other side, she see no reason for me to have her photos in my postings on the net after we are divorced.


Which I totally agree with, I will have that part removed when I remarry and finish my story.
A decision that was perfectly acceptable for her also.


I hope that satisfies all those worried about Lena.  I thought Lena would be too busy to spend time adding to the story.   

Most of you will probably think of another reason to criticize Northkape. 


Quote
That part about bragging, for me I would like to see a lot more "bragging".
Personally I would like to see more trip stories that are illustrated with photos of the women they met with.
This is after all "Russian Women Discussion" so what is up with this seemingly strange aversion to showing photos of Russian Women?

A few tasteful photos are splendid.  OTOH a parade of photos of many different women makes it seem IMO as if women are being objectified.  That is disrespectful. 

You have not done this, yet the mere listing of many different women will make some overreact and scream "sex tourist." 

Personally, I thank you for your update and trip report.  IMO we do not get enough T/Rs, and not only have you given us one, it is a very interesting story, an Old Norse Saga.   :D  And your photos add immeasurably to the saga.   

I find it odd that few RWD members expressed their appreciation.  Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing.   I guess that is the way some people are. 

Offline ML

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #358 on: December 17, 2013, 09:47:02 PM »
yet the mere listing of many different women will make some overreact and scream "sex tourist." 

Hmmmm, let's think back now . . . have you ever been one of the first in a thread to scream 'sex tourist.'    8)

These forums where the posts exist for eons are a bitch!!   :o
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #359 on: December 17, 2013, 09:47:37 PM »

We all judge.  Some moreso than others.   We are all human after all even though some people think they are above human.  The problem is when people escalate these disagreements to a point that could screw up lives. 


This isn't normal behavior.


Agreed...those that go around making harsh judgments should keep still, and not complain when they have someone judge their judgments! In addition those that start pulling stuff outta of thin air should not be whiny when the same thing happens to them. 


Let the man tell HIS VERSION of the story, and be reasonable but firm in assessing as posters like Faux Pas was in this instance.  There was no need to imply he was abusive/domineering or sex tourist.


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Gator

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #360 on: December 17, 2013, 10:00:47 PM »
Hmmmm, let's think back now . . . have you ever been one of the first in a thread to scream 'sex tourist.'    8)

These forums where the posts exist for eons are a bitch!!   :o

I believe Kuna preceded me in suggesting Pike a sex tourist.  Do not forget that Pike's writings in that thread and elsewhere (including his prior identity) were more than listings. 


Where else did I utter such words, oh great scribe in the sky? :D

Offline ML

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #361 on: December 17, 2013, 10:07:23 PM »
Where else did I utter such words, oh great scribe in the sky? :D

I have to get to bed; but I will find tomorrow (maybe) and post.

What wine to you want with the words you will eat?   :D
A very cheap meal, so perhaps a Merlot?
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline fathertime

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #362 on: December 17, 2013, 10:09:15 PM »


I find it odd that few RWD members expressed their appreciation.  Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing.   I guess that is the way some people are.


You got that right Gator...now imagine living for a long period of time with someone like this...I'd last about a week...this sorta behaviour needs to be dealt with in some form or it only gets worse and worse....


I liked the pictures this man showed us, and his story was unfolding..he wasn't perfect...but he gave no indication of being an abusive sex tourist like a few were implying/saying.


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Gator

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #363 on: December 17, 2013, 10:14:31 PM »
I have to get to bed; but I will find tomorrow (maybe) and post.

What wine to you want with the words you will eat?   :D
A very cheap meal, so perhaps a Merlot?

When you find something, try to evaluate the effect that outside forces may have had on me.   :D

Online northkape

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #364 on: December 18, 2013, 01:24:02 AM »
Fathertime & Gator
Thanks for the friendly words...

MissA
Have you forgot what I told about our boys daily life.. smile

Taking our boys away from their private school, their piano teacher, paint teacher and gymnastics teacher would be over Lena's dead body.
These teachers are all personal friends of us, and have been together with our boys since they were four years old.
It's impossible for an outsider to understand our relationship with them, and their love for our boys.
So let this be very clear, she wants the boys to stay here in my hometown with me, whatever happens in the future.


It took us years to find and build a relationship with these gifted persons.
And they have used years, building a loving relationship with our boys.
It is not allowed and not advisable to take the boys out of school and we would never, ever allow it.
So they couldn't stay in Oslo on weekdays, it's quite simply not possible.

Lena loves all of what I'm giving of my life to her sons, she see and understand my position in their lives.
I'm learning and teaching them about all possible things young boys could find interesting in our "universe"
They are bright and multi talented boys with a never ending desire for exploring and learning,
so we do our very best for providing a rich and saturated environment for their life's in all of it's aspects.
As much as she loves her boys, she truly wants them to be with me, as their best friend and father, always available for them.

Offline mies

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #365 on: December 18, 2013, 08:55:08 AM »
   
Several criticized you, yet said nothing commendable about the good things you are doing.   I guess that is the way some people are.

Gator, I did compliment OP in the past on the good things he did to help his wife adjust in the new society. I don't know how good of a father he is because the only thing I know is that his words ("I am a good father") do not match his actions (he seeks the new wife actively before he is divorced or separated, and doesn't not take his children into account). Actions speak louder than words.

Some things are unacceptable and inexcusable. Physical abuse, emotional abuse, financial abuse, putting your partner/spouse at risk, intentionally and knowingly putting spouse's career and well-being at risk, and some other - are examples of unacceptable and inexcusable behavior. 
If a husband "beats the crap" (here, me cursing) out of his wife occasionally, or endangers her health/life/well-being it is irrelevant how generous he is, whether he paid for her college education, and whether he is a good father for their joint child. He is a bad husband, and he is bad for his wife. There are no excuses for such behavior.
If a husband regularly and consistently abuses his wife emotionally, it doesn't matter that he helped her to get a degree and is a good father for  their two young children, he is still a bad husband and he is bad for her. (Imho, not a good person too.)

In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable. Unlike physical violence, this is, also  imho, a forgivable offense, but not and excusable one. If he corrected his behavior and were eager to "walk in his wife's shoes" - I think she would have forgave him and would say "our past mishaps are water under the bridge." But he isn't doing anything like that. On the contrary, i see a specific and consistent pattern in his behavior.

Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person. If the person kept jeopardizing my success and happiness - I would go after this person and won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.

And as an additional remark. Right now a couple of our friends are battling for custody for their child after they split up 2 years ago. They were never married, although lived together for 10+ years and he is listed in the child's documents as her father. Mother was very cooperating all the time through their separation, and suggested her ex joint custody. She earns about x3 times more than the guy, so she always paid for everything and never asked for any money. Since they separated she paid for her ex's and child's trips (East <-> West coast) and gave him money to help with his expenses. When they lived together she paid for apartment and all their bills, and she understood that the split has been difficult for him financially. Do you know how the guy paid her back? After he brought the child to her, and when he saw that his ex-girlfriend is pregnant from another man, he returned home, found the lawyer and sued her for "abduction of their child." He timed the lawsuit to the week she was due delivering the baby, and collected all information secretly, while talking to her friendly on skype and learned when she was scheduled to "deliver" second baby. Since she had C-section the day before the court hearing was scheduled, she could not fly to a different state. Since she was not present in the court, the court in the husband's state ruled that the child should be returned to father immediately and until the next hearing father received temporary 100% custody. The judge in mother's state ruled that the child should stay with mother, but that decision has been overruled by the decision in father's state, because the mother's state gave decision about custody split, and father's state gave decision about child abduction. In the past 6 month poor woman, while taking care of an infant and working full-time, and paying her ex for child expenses, also spent 20K for lawyers and this is only the beginning. And now goes the most interesting part. The husband's version of the events, that he eagerly shares with people who do not know his wife or the whole story, and the version that he tells to their child "the mother found another man and ran away to a different state, abandoning her child. She also immediately got pregnant again, and she doesn't want to do anything with her first child, therefore I should have full custody." I know the guy really well, and he used to be our friend. Had we not known his wife, and had we not observed this story from a close distance, we would have easily believed the guy, that his ex indeed decided to move on for her career, or for another man, and abandoned her child and doesn't care about her child too much. I do not draw any parallels to the OP's story, but since observing this case, I am very cautious when forming an opinion about  who is the good parent and who is the bad parent, and whether mother is a career-oriented woman who abandoned her children or picked her job over her children.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 09:30:13 AM by mies »

Offline Muzh

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #366 on: December 18, 2013, 09:21:15 AM »
   

Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and cut all connections with this person. If the person will keep jeopardizing my success and happiness - I will go after this person ruthlessly, will explore all legal means, and will find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible. And when doing this, I won't feel a slightest hint of remorse. I am very kind, gentle, loving, friendly person, but the broken trust has to be atoned for.


Oh yeah baby. Right on!!!
 
Been there and done that.
 
None of that "that was then, this is now" bullshevik that prevails in this country.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline mies

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #367 on: December 18, 2013, 09:24:18 AM »

Oh yeah baby. Right on!!!
 
Been there and done that.
 
None of that "that was then, this is now" bullshevik that prevails in this country.

Yeah, I modified my post not to ignite the sacred battle  >:D

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #368 on: December 18, 2013, 09:25:43 AM »
Yeah, I modified my post not to ignite the sacred battle  >:D


Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing.  Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target. 

Offline Muzh

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #369 on: December 18, 2013, 09:29:30 AM »

Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing.  Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target.

LMFAO
 
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.
 
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline mies

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #370 on: December 18, 2013, 09:35:54 AM »

Doing what you have to do in order to be happy is a good thing.  Revenge, on the other hand, will end up hurting you more than the target.

I always balance my response and weigh it's cost to me and the impact on another person. Being a pedantic and boring person as I am - has benefits too. When planned methodically, it's not a revenge, it's a lesson to show a person that what they did was wrong, and that they should not be doing it again, and definitely not to me. Plus, since I am lazy and soft person and not prone to aggression, if I am forced to go through the trouble of some unusual activity, and forced to experience severe negative emotions, take my time and attention from happy and pleasant activities and spend them on something less pleasant - I need to make sure that my "transaction costs" are also covered "виновником торжества." That's all.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 09:38:52 AM by mies »

Offline Boethius

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #371 on: December 18, 2013, 10:02:42 AM »

LMFAO
 
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.


I am not certain I would classify that as revenge.  I think I would call it sticking up for yourself.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #372 on: December 18, 2013, 10:09:10 AM »

I am not certain I would classify that as revenge.  I think I would call it sticking up for yourself.


No, I would say stopping the person through lawful ways was sticking up for yourself.  Not allowing him/her to push you around and showing you won't be pushed around.


Quote
find the way to give this person a reciprocal lesson, as painful (emotionally and financially) as possible


This would be more of a revenge thing, imo.  It is understandable to want to lash out at someone who caused you pain, but that is not good for your own healing.  I have a family member who has that type of approach.  She if a very giving person but has a very hateful side if she feels you crossed her.  It ends up hurting herself more than anyone because she can't let go of the bad feelings.


Trying to make someone pay won't help those bad feeling go away. 


Mies, please see my response in response to your post in response to mine.  :P
« Last Edit: December 18, 2013, 10:13:58 AM by LiveFromUkraine »

Offline LiveFromUkraine

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #373 on: December 18, 2013, 10:11:53 AM »

LMFAO
 
Boy, I heard that so long ago and listened. It was not until my back looked like a sieve that I said "the hell with this, hit her as hard as you can." Guess what? Tame as a lamb and no more holes in my back.


I didn't say be a pushover.  Sometimes you have to fight the good fight.  I am saying revenge isn't the answer.

Offline Gator

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Re: Update - 13 years later
« Reply #374 on: December 18, 2013, 10:20:42 AM »
Mies, I will address the vengeful angel  ;)later, but first Northkape.

   
Gator, I did compliment OP in the past on the good things he did to help his wife adjust in the new society. I don't know how good of a father he is because the only thing I know is that his words ("I am a good father") do not match his actions (he seeks the new wife actively before he is divorced or separated, and doesn't not take his children into account). Actions speak louder than words.

Actually, Northkape's overall actions make complete sense to me now after his recent elaborations.

My summary: 

1.  Lena made the decision to divorce and move to Oslo.  And so far, their divorce is very orderly.  This enables both of them to develop and implement  a "succession plan" as in good business.   This is far better than reacting to aggressive attorneys. 

2.  Surely you agree that Northkape is entitled to pursue his personal happiness. 

      a.  His happiness plan is to be a good father by being the primary caregiver and not moving the boys,  thus minimizing disruption to their lives.   

      b.  He is a family man and does not want to be a wild bachelor chasing the local women and enjoying tons of free sex (and I guarantee you this is real easy at his age, been there, done that).  Thus, his happiness plan is  to remarry (a successor). 

      c.  The new wife must have some special qualities given he has two young sons living with him, and this will require that he proceed carefully.

      d.  He has the highest regard for Lena, and this makes him think highly of UW.   So he thought he would again explore the romantic possibilities of Ukraine. 

3.   One problem with meeting UW is that he must travel to Ukraine.  Part of the overall plan is for Lena to move to Oslo, and after that she will not be around to parent the boys while he is on a trip. 

Hence, Northkape had to travel early as part of the succession plan.  And his wife Lena not only agreed, she helped him in almost every aspect of his trip and meetings with UW.  So where does my logic come asunder.   



Quote
In my eyes, what the OP was doing all along throughout the 13 years of his marriage, and what he keeps doing now - constitutes a moral abuse and is inexcusable.

Just because you feel Northkape is morally abusive does not mean the mother of his children feels the same.  Obviously Lena stopped loving him.  We do not know the reasons, and maybe Lena can not definitively state them.  Regardless, the marriage is dead.   


Quote
Finally, if a person whom I trust wholeheartedly suddenly started behaving unethically, if he or she used his/her close knowledge of me and his/her privileged access to my life, in order to jeopardize my well-being, my future, my reputation or/and my career, - that would terminate our friendship immediately and I would cut all connections with this person.

Are you accusing Northkape of this?  If so, this is not the Mies I know, as this IMO is purely an emotional response. 

After being besieged by the RWD Protect Lena Committee, Northkape clarified this yesterday.  He says everything is kosher.     And Lena did not cut all connections, so it seems that either Northkape is correct, or Lena is very understanding and forgiving.


 

 

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