Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[GQBlues]

Pathetic. The media already began their aggressive campaign for Obama's re-election. Considering few, if not none, leverage they can throw against the growing dissatisfaction about this idiot's present administration, they resort to the ol' trick in the book, race and class warfare.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/46981884/ns/us_news-christian_science_monitor/
 
So much vital information are kept out missing of this tradegy...for one, had I been a black, hooded, 17 year old walking in a complex and someone approached me and asked what the heck was I doing there, I could've easily told the guy,
 
"Walking to my old man's crib, dawg. What's your cover?"
 
On the flip-side of this, looking at the two subjects involved here, I just can't see Trayvon having his way with George to the point he was bashing his head (George's) against the pavement.
 
This should be a simple case of homicide, or not. Not about race and certainly not about politics.

Bottom line...the media started the frenzy so watch it unfold all the way to November.

[BC]

GQ,

Unfortunately in a 'no tolerance' world, add 'hate crime' aspects, election year antics and it all indeed gets out of whack.

The cops clearly told the hobby cop to back off until the real guys came.  I also doubt the little guy was capable of beating up the big guy with a gun.  Two experts are pretty clear about the help cries.

A lot went wrong here and yes the courts should work it out.

I must admit though that the racial divide in the US is still quite stark.   A few years back was driving with my family to the airport in VA.. got a bit lost without navigator and found myself in a part of town where I felt very alone and vulnerable.  The folks helped me just fine though and gave me good directions.. they did seem to get a chuckle about me appearing though.

I can imagine the divide I felt is shared by quite a few.  The law may proclaim equality, but the common man on either side may not really feel it.

This kid may well be a part of an increase in 'justifiable homicides' noted by some reporters http://www.citybeat.com/cincinnati/blog-3256-analysis_stand_your_ground_states_have_more_shootings.html

I think the pressure from part of the community to investigate these homicides more carefully and thoroughly could well be justified.

[Darth_Budda]

Armed Neo-Nazis Now Patrolling Sanford, Say They Are "Prepared" For Post-Trayvon Martin Violence

http://blogs.miaminewtimes.com/riptide/2012/04/heavily_armed_neo-nazis_patrol.php

George Zimmerman Video Shows Little Evidence of a Broken Nose, Doctor Claims

http://abcnews.go.com/US/trayvon-martin-case-doctor-sees-evidence-george-zimmerman/story?id=16055412#.T4CB7tXy_To

[Darth_Budda]

the lazy people who don't produce stuff. driving our taxes up..

they should just die!  right guys?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=whlEY1DAidw

[BC]

Darth,

you are just as radical as the radicals you complain about.

Think about it.

It's easy to copy and paste from your favorite pundit source.  Learn to think your own thoughts and post them here for discussion.

[Darth_Budda]

Darth,

you are just as radical as the radicals you complain about.

Think about it.

It's easy to copy and paste from your favorite pundit source.  Learn to think your own thoughts and post them here for discussion.

thanks!

well you guys talk about these "non-producers",, so i thought they needed a face...

these are the people they are talking about... right?


Let discusses this this video...

should we tax more to pay for social programs, or should we not?

edit:   i post links to support my ideals.  debating is a processes... some times you got to set the other persons argument up to fail...

[Darth_Budda]

[Darth_Budda]

I think Newt is almost done...
When a 500 dollar check bounces you know you have issues.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-17680254

[Darth_Budda]

The Buffett Rule Explained
What's the deal with our current tax system?

Under the current U.S. tax system, a number of millionaires pay a smaller percentage of their income in taxes than a significant proportion of middle class families. Warren Buffett, for example, pays a lower effective tax rate than his secretary, and that’s not fair.

A full 22,000 households that made more than $1 million in 2009 paid less than 15 percent of their income in income taxes — and 1,470 managed to pay no federal income taxes on their million-plus-dollar incomes, according to the IRS.

And, the very wealthiest American households are paying nearly the lowest tax rate in 50 years— some are paying just half of the federal income tax that top income earners paid in 1960. But the average tax rate for middle class families has barely budged. The middle 20 percent of households paid 14 percent of their incomes in 1960, and 16 percent in 2010.
What is the Buffett Rule?

The Buffett Rule is simple principle that everyone should pay their fair share in taxes. No household making more than a $1 million should pay a smaller share of their income in taxes than middle-class families pay. For the 98 percent of American families who make less than $250,000, taxes should not go up.
How would it make sure everyone pays their fair share?

The Buffett Rule would limit the degree to which the best-off can take advantage of loopholes and tax rates that allow them to pay less of their income in taxes than middle-class families.

Anyone who does well for themselves should do their fair share in return, so that more people have the opportunity to get ahead—not just a few. And at time when we need to pay down our deficit and invest in the things that help our economy grow and keep our country safe—education, research and technology, a strong military, Medicare and Social Security—giving tax breaks to millionaires simply doesn’t make sense.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/economy/buffett-rule?utm_source=email152c&utm_medium=graphic&utm_campaign=taxes

[Gator]

Darth,
 
I thought you were smarter and would see that this is a political gimmick.   
 
I asked you before to take a few minutes and to examine facts and not listen to the political rhetoric of our leader.  Quickly, I will do it for you.  Last year the deficit was about $1.3 trillion.  The Buffet rule would raise an additional $5 billion of tax revenue per year.  So it represents a 0.4% improvement.  That is the same as telling an obese person that all they have to is leave each day is leave three french fries uneaten on their plate.
 
I will explain it for the last time.  Democrats want to tax more so that they can spend more.  Republicans want to save the country from bankruptcy.  Wealthy people will be proud to pay more taxes once they see the nation taking a positive direction to restrain spending.  If you do not understand this, I see no reason to read your posts  any more. 
 
There are "growth incentive" reasons why the Buffet rule is not good.  And this is Obama's best answer for the nation's budget deficit?  It must be considering how many times he has proposed it in his speeches.   The simple math should be enough to show you that Nero Obama is just playing his fiddle.  If you fall for this, you are being duped.
 
 

[Darth_Budda]

Darth,
 
I thought you were smarter and would see that this is a political gimmick.   
 
I asked you before to take a few minutes and to examine facts and not listen to the political rhetoric of our leader.  Quickly, I will do it for you.  Last year the deficit was about $1.3 trillion.  The Buffet rule would raise an additional $5 billion of tax revenue per year.  So it represents a 0.4% improvement.  That is the same as telling an obese person that all they have to is leave each day is leave three french fries uneaten on their plate.
 
I will explain it for the last time.  Democrats want to tax more so that they can spend more.  Republicans want to save the country from bankruptcy.  Wealthy people will be proud to pay more taxes once they see the nation taking a positive direction to restrain spending.  If you do not understand this, I see no reason to read your posts  any more. 
 
There are "growth incentive" reasons why the Buffet rule is not good.  And this is Obama's best answer for the nation's budget deficit?  It must be considering how many times he has proposed it in his speeches.   The simple math should be enough to show you that Nero Obama is just playing his fiddle.  If you fall for this, you are being duped.

Gator we are already bankrupt,, that's why we run massive deficits every year...

It's not about balancing the budget,,, It's about fairness...
Why should you pay less of a percentage of your income when you make 1,000,000 than when you do at 100,000??

50K = 16% of income taxed
100K = 19%
175K = 23%
1,000,000 + = 18%
In fact some pay no federal income tax at all!!!
Basic Math Gator, That is my point...


People don't hire people because their taxes are lower, They hire people when they have a job that needs to be done...

We will balance the budget by Raising taxes on everyone and slashing the military...


Basic Capitalism,,,,,

Lets play monopoly!!!!

we start with 10 poor player all equal...

let the game play for a bit...

you now have 2 rich players 3 middle class players and 7 poor players...

the poor players cant afford to stay at your hotel so their wealth/capital is transferred to the middle class and rich players...

let the game play for a bit...

you now have 1 super rich player 2 rich players 4 middle players and 3 people out of the game....

Now the middle class players can't afford to stay at your hotel,,, the wealth/capital is transferred to the rich and super rich...

Let the game play some more...

you now have 1 super rich and 3 rich players.. every one else is out.. lets call them the poor.. so we now have 4 players of wealth and 6 poor players...

Now the the rich battle it out until their is one player who owns every thing...

Game over.. we end the game with 1 mega rich and 9 poor....

Now if we only had a progressive income tax to redistribute wealth...
It's the only way to keep the game going or it ends... That's real life. 

If we are to give tax breaks for the rich it should be only for creating American jobs in this country,,, That's it!!!

[Boethius]

For Muzh, who shares my political leanings -

[calmissile]

Boethius
 You gotta be kidding me!

[Boethius]

No, Muzh and I are political kindred spirits.

[GQBlues]

LOL Boethius!
 
Considering the Democrats had held office almost 12 of the 20 years on that silly sign, I say yeah she had some bitchin' to do....
 
Besides of course when she changes the sign, or was she using invisible ink? This stupid OWS crowd is a great example when you do silly policies like unemployment compensation extension. People would rather sit at home and not seek work since they get $450/wk doing stupid things. Like photo-shopping rally signs so other folks actually starts using them to promote their agenda. LOL, pretty funny if you think about it....
 

Doped and Chained, baby!
 
 

     

[Boethius]

It took Clinton two terms to balance the budget, and Bush less than one to put it back into deficit.  So, I don't think you can blame the Democrats.

But, I'm glad you like the sign.

[GQBlues]

It took Clinton two terms to balance the budget, and Bush less than one to put it back into deficit.  So, I don't think you can blame the Democrats.

But, I'm glad you like the sign.

Clinton, the moderate that he is/was did exactly what we need to do to balance the budget today like he did during his administration...abolish social welfare and giveaways, big government.... Even he was fully aware what was wrong in his own party line's agenda.
 
 

[ML]

It took Clinton two terms to balance the budget, and Bush less than one to put it back into deficit.

Don't think this is the way it works in USA.

Something about only Congress can establish fiscal policy, etc.

Presidents can only try  to veto.

[Darth_Budda]

End welfare!!!

Provide jobs,, plenty of stuff that needs to be done...

Why pay unemployment or welfare when every single town/city needs work done..
infrastructure and beautification projects .....

[calmissile]

End welfare!!!

Provide jobs,, plenty of stuff that needs to be done...

Why pay unemployment or welfare when every single town/city needs work done..
infrastructure and beautification projects .....

It's below their dignity, just like menial jobs are for FSUW.   

[calmissile]

Darth,

Can you believe it?  Here we are at opposite ends of the political spectrum and we agree on something.  However, I beat you to it.  I wrote and editorial in the local newspaper saying the exact same thing about 30 years ago.   You would not believe the uproar it caused and the name calling that resulted!   

[Kokopelli]

Gator we are already bankrupt,, that's why we run massive deficits every year...

It's not about balancing the budget,,, It's about fairness...
Why should you pay less of a percentage of your income when you make 1,000,000 than when you do at 100,000??

50K = 16% of income taxed
100K = 19%
175K = 23%
1,000,000 + = 18%
In fact some pay no federal income tax at all!!!
Basic Math Gator, That is my point...


People don't hire people because their taxes are lower, They hire people when they have a job that needs to be done...

We will balance the budget by Raising taxes on everyone and slashing the military...


Basic Capitalism,,,,,

Lets play monopoly!!!!

we start with 10 poor player all equal...

let the game play for a bit...

you now have 2 rich players 3 middle class players and 7 poor players...

the poor players cant afford to stay at your hotel so their wealth/capital is transferred to the middle class and rich players...

let the game play for a bit...

you now have 1 super rich player 2 rich players 4 middle players and 3 people out of the game....

Now the middle class players can't afford to stay at your hotel,,, the wealth/capital is transferred to the rich and super rich...

Let the game play some more...

you now have 1 super rich and 3 rich players.. every one else is out.. lets call them the poor.. so we now have 4 players of wealth and 6 poor players...

Now the the rich battle it out until their is one player who owns every thing...

Game over.. we end the game with 1 mega rich and 9 poor....

Now if we only had a progressive income tax to redistribute wealth...
It's the only way to keep the game going or it ends... That's real life. 

If we are to give tax breaks for the rich it should be only for creating American jobs in this country,,, That's it!!!

Do I really want to get involved in this?
OK, let's talk shop. No political BS.

The 18% you are referring to is income from dividends and capital gains – both of which were previously taxed as corporate income. Half-truth at best, disingenuous at the other end.
The current federal and state combined is 39.2%.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-corporate-tax-rate-poised-171800370.html
So, let's find the real rate that WB pays.
Basic math, how much does a corporation have to earn to pay WB a $100 dividend?

Business people also do not hire when they have no clue what their tax rates will be in the short term. By short term I mean 2-3 years. It is impossible to plan in some industries, some require even longer.
Meanwhile, the "Prez" has not only villainized business, he has created an environment of uncertainity. View it from a business owners standpoint and you will understand.

Raising taxes would be like offering a "junkie" more dope.
Why the military and what parts need to be cut?

You know Capitalism and Monopoly have different meanings?

Interesting game.
That's why it's called Monopoly and not Capitalism.
You believe the government would make better choices than you?
Maybe they will invest your money in another Solyndra; the game's over real quick. Or, perhaps, invest in off-shore drilling in Brazil, that sure created a lot of jobs in America.

We have a progressive income tax, simple math.
We also have something called anti-trust laws to prevent monopolies.
Let's start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act
Those evil Republicans.
The conflict between Teddy Roosevelt, another evil Republican, and J.P. Morgan is also worth noting.

Tax breaks if the rich create jobs....
Now we're cooking with heat.
How about we start with the Corporate Tax rate as my first year accounting instructor said in 1980?
Why would Obama want to lower the rate to 28%?
What would that do to WB's dividends? Increase? Decrease?
Beware of Buffett's buffet, if it smells like sh!t don't eat there.

[Kokopelli]

For Muzh, who shares my political leanings -

Another satisfied customer from the Barney Frankth school of Fannie and Freddie.

[Darth_Budda]

Do I really want to get involved in this?
OK, let's talk shop. No political BS.

The 18% you are referring to is income from dividends and capital gains – both of which were previously taxed as corporate income. Half-truth at best, disingenuous at the other end.
The current federal and state combined is 39.2%.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-corporate-tax-rate-poised-171800370.html
So, let's find the real rate that WB pays.
Basic math, how much does a corporation have to earn to pay WB a $100 dividend?

Business people also do not hire when they have no clue what their tax rates will be in the short term. By short term I mean 2-3 years. It is impossible to plan in some industries, some require even longer.
Meanwhile, the "Prez" has not only villainized business, he has created an environment of uncertainity. View it from a business owners standpoint and you will understand.

Raising taxes would be like offering a "junkie" more dope.
Why the military and what parts need to be cut?

You know Capitalism and Monopoly have different meanings?

Interesting game.
That's why it's called Monopoly and not Capitalism.
You believe the government would make better choices than you?
Maybe they will invest your money in another Solyndra; the game's over real quick. Or, perhaps, invest in off-shore drilling in Brazil, that sure created a lot of jobs in America.

We have a progressive income tax, simple math.
We also have something called anti-trust laws to prevent monopolies.
Let's start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act
Those evil Republicans.
The conflict between Teddy Roosevelt, another evil Republican, and J.P. Morgan is also worth noting.

Tax breaks if the rich create jobs....
Now we're cooking with heat.
How about we start with the Corporate Tax rate as my first year accounting instructor said in 1980?
Why would Obama want to lower the rate to 28%?
What would that do to WB's dividends? Increase? Decrease?
Beware of Buffett's buffet, if it smells like sh!t don't eat there.

1) I am really against Large corporations... I think we would be better of with more small business, I also think they would produce more jobs than corporations can... Sure one small business's does not add 1,000 jobs but 100 small business will...

2) TR would consider most of the large corporations trusts these days. No business should be to large to fail, except the government...

3) People who make all their money from stocks need to pay more.. I really dislike that the stock market is a for of legalized gambling. Gambling could be considered a Social evil...

to calmissile

We should not force people to work, but unless they produce something of value to society than why should we support them?


The way I see it we have a surplus of labor in this country that is not working..
We also have a surplus of Capital in this country in the hands to rich Americans that is not working...

So we either get rid of the labor.. Death camps.  very bad idea!!
or
We redistribute the wealth to get more people working. this could be done through a progressive tax system. It's fair and does not require open class war. But we just can't do that. We must build factories to produce more goods so the capital does not simply end up in china.. Since it is not profitable to do this in many industries we need to use government backed worker cooperatives to fund and build these factories.

We need to hold our high labor standards to the countries we do business with.
If they use child labor we need to stop doing business with them. We must make sure their companies play by the same rules as ours.. 

EDIT:
Corporate tax rate is different than personal income tax..
Remember after citizen united corporations are people!!
they get their own taxes.. My family business is a corporation which my dad owns 100% of the stock.
The yearly board meetings that are required by law are very short!! lol

[Turboguy]

Clinton, the moderate that he is/was did exactly what we need to do to balance the budget today like he did during his administration...abolish social welfare and giveaways, big government.... Even he was fully aware what was wrong in his own party line's agenda.
 
 

I guess I must be like Rip VanWinkle and slept through his administration.  I totally missed him abolishing welfare, giveaways and ending big government.   I sure never knew we didn't have any big government during his administration.    Although I think the good things that happened then were more a product of a robust economy based on the growth of computers and the changes that microprocessors enabled that increased product demand, I do think he did a pretty good job and I would be honored to smoke his used cigars whereever they had been.  If I had to list good Presidents over the last half century Reagan would be at the top of my list followed by Clinton.