Newt or Mitt VS Obama. Can either of 'em beat him?

[LAman]

I only joined into this discussion around page 60, never read anything said here but knew it was mostly men bumping chests, complaining about politics with little information , which to me is just boring. But just one question.....
How many here on RWD has spent time in recent elections on campaigns whether it be calling on phones, going dooor to door.....explaining your candidates postion in trying to help elect him? I hope so, based on the amount of complaining venting about this government and the direction of the country!!!
If not, then you can now see the reason Obama was elected. He had an excellant grass roots efforts in northern Ohio and northeast Virginia.

[Gator]

Interesting questions Gator!  I like it!

I also think the majority would vote for Obama. 

So they would choose a career politician with a less than satisfactory economic record to manage their money vs. a proven businessman who can grow a small amount of assets into something sizable.  OK!    It explains much, especially why our economy is where it is now with 51% of the people not as concerned about the direction.

Bill Gates is pretty right for his position and wealth..  but that does not necessarily mean it applies to the rest of us.

I disagree.  One of the reasons for not having money is not looking 10 years down the road, e. g., dropping out of school.   Bill's opinion applies to much of life and not just about money.   For example, politics is driven by staying in power, i. e. reelection or two years down the road, not 10 years.    While having children unlike politics is a long term view, many of us underestimate what the responsibility entails and how quickly it proceeds (I did, but my sons have done well despite me).

[calmissile]

SFandEE,

So that we can put your views into perspective please tell us:

Your age.

Your occupation.

Are you a Berkley graduate?

[GoodOlBoy]

An entitled 65 year-old white man is just as big a problem for me as an entitled 25 year-old black female.

How is Sculpto doing?
 
What's up with this "Old Whitey" stuff anyway?
 
You come across as militant dude.
 
GOB
 
BTW... Those 65 yr old white men that your referring to, have been paying into SS for the last 45+ years..... just some food for thought and that 25 yo Black woman on welfare with 3 kids?

[SFandEE]

I have no association with Sculpto


I'm not militant, just have an opinion different than you, and I am strong enough to have gotten there through reasoning it out. Is there anything the people who have issues with me are saying that are different from Rush Limbaugh? It's a great chance to talk politics with Rush.


The old whitey stuff is an analysis of the demographics of the election. If listening is a valuable skill that party needs to do listen to the demographics.  2012 should have easily gotten rid of Obama, I would be just fine with that, but the choices were clearly inferior to Obama and biased towards one group. I am not in that group. Many of you are and have been posting for months amongst yourselves. Look at the title Mitt or Newt, really the best the GOP could offer?


As to not properly educating kids, again that is just a generational thing I think. Maybe moral. Kids shouldn't go hungry in America. Best to have their parents care for them, even ideal to have a nation that provides an environment for work that sustains life.


I really don't want to have n argument with people about your stuff and that it's yours. If you don't have any sense by now that you promised yourselves more than you funded, I don't care. That is what the election said to you too.


Do 65 year olds care about unemployment, no, they want their retirement benefits and Medicare. Can we take away all MediCare right now, anyone? That will save trillions, is that agreeable, seniors? Welfare, you did not fund MediCare adequately. If it goes away you can take care of yourselves, just like the rest of us. You had your whole lives to make political and financial decisions to provide for your health. Why didn't you? Why are you counting on the government to pay your bills?

[calmissile]

I have no association with Sculpto


I'm not militant, just have an opinion different than you, and I am strong enough to have gotten there through reasoning it out. Is there anything the people who have issues with me that are different from Rush Limaugh?


As to not properly educating kids, again that is just a generational thing I think. Maybe moral. Kids shouldn't go hungry in America.

What is your age?

What is your occupation?

Are you a Berkley grad?

Come on, these are relatively simple questions!  As strong as your views are, I would think you don't mind giving us an answer to them.

[pokerintherear]

Here is a county by county map of election results. For the non US residents....... Red is Romney and Blue is Obama. This makes things look different.

[GoodOlBoy]

Are you a Berkley grad?

He could be a Berkley handwringer, but my best guess is Grambling or Norfolk State.
 
GOB

[SFandEE]

That's almost he same map of states that take more federal funds than they give and states that give more federal funds than they take


The key


Red--takers
Blue--givers


Why do people post this map? To show the people who like the GOP live in remote, barren parts of the US with few major universities and industry pretty much in oil, coal, and agriculture.


I like the South, just not its history of bigotry.

[BC]

So they would choose a career politician with a less than satisfactory economic record to manage their money vs. a proven businessman who can grow a small amount of assets into something sizable.  OK!    It explains much, especially why our economy is where it is now with 51% of the people not as concerned about the direction.

Romney would say let businesses fend for themselves.. they will take care of whatever ail's them.  I have agreed with this in the past and still do today.  Problem is that in the aftermath of the financial crisis, business did not step up to the plate and instead waited for Govt to chip in.  By then the damage was done and the responsibility of repair handed over.  The interests of the Govt at that point rules.

I'll reflect a bit before addressing Bill.

[BC]

Here is a county by county map of election results. For the non US residents....... Red is Romney and Blue is Obama. This makes things look different.

The map also clearly shows population density.

Is the map not an example of democracy at work?... or do weeds, cows and ears of corn also have a vote?

[calmissile]

He could be a Berkley handwringer, but my best guess is Grambling or Norfolk State.
 
GOB

His bio indicates that he is in California that's why I wondered about Berkley, the bastion of socialism/liberalism.

He claims to come to his beliefs using reasoning.  Like many liberals, he must have no sense of history.  He is pissing on the boomer generation, yet it is the generation that made the US the greatest nation on earth.  How does he reconcile that?

His views on the boomers and SS is interesting.  He seems to forget (or not know) that it was the great liberal LBJ that took SS from the trust fund and transfered it to the General Fund so that it could be pissed away with government spending.  The 'Great Society' programs of LBJ is what got us the welfare state we now have.

Resistribution of the wealth has never worked to prop up the underachievers.  If they taxed the rich 100%, it would not produce enough money to meet the appetite for the liberal/socialist programs.  Only a very motivated, hard working middle class will restore us to greatness again.  When there is no requirement or motivation to work hard (welfare) we will not get out of this rut.

[Gator]

We need ecomic heroes, enough with the war heroes. Let them come home and work with the rest of us to heal this country so that being American will mean something special again.

The Republicans nominated an economic hero, a business specialist at turnarounds, with an admirable personal character regarding honesty and integrity.   51% of America did not want him.
 
I never hear viable proposals from the Democrats.  Today the President proposed as part of the fiscal cliff to keep the same tax measures for people earning less than than $250k pa.  That seems reasonable.  I believe the extra revenue from those earning over $250k will keep the government running for a couple of days.   In other words, the extra tax revenue is peanuts.  Its a start, but where were the President's words about cutting government spending?   The Democrat's history (and Republicans at times) raise taxes not to reduce the deficit but to support more spending.
 
More than that, where are the initiatives to deal with what is really wrong with America.   Here is a clear example of what's wrong (and no candidate talked about it).  For each engineer the US graduates, smaller South Korea graduates 17.  For each lawyer South Korea graduates, America graduates 40.  Which country is focused on wealth creation and which on wealth redistribution?   
 
Yes, America has problems but a President who is a career politician and a Congress composed mostly of lawyers is not going to fix it.   Do you recall your Biology 101?  Lag pase, growth phase, etc.?  If something is not growing, it is dying.  We need growth, not redistribution.
 

   
Also learn to say "thank you" and "please" as we pay for your entitlements you failed to fund, but you insist on receiving.   

"Thank you."    Again, those of us who worked paid more than we will ever receive.   Repeat,  those who worked paid more than we will ever receive.     (Hint:  Consider investment of those payments with compounded returns).
 
Maybe you should move and start your own country.  Us old dudes don't have that option; however, I am moving my money.  Completely legal, and not done to escape higher taxes.  Simply moving to emerging markets to obtain better returns than possible with American companies constrained by government initiatives.  You will now respond with something about unequal work conditions, etc.   Maybe your President will correct it.
 
 
 

[SFandEE]

His bio indicates that he is in California that's why I wondered about Berkley, the bastion of socialism/liberalism.

He claims to come to his beliefs using reasoning.  Like many liberals, he must have no sense of history.  He is pissing the boomer generation, yet it is the generation that made the US the greatest nation on earth.  How does he reconcile that?

His views on the boomers and SS is interesting.  He seems to forget (or not know) that it was the great liberal LBJ that took SS from the trust fund and transfered it to the General Fund so that it could be pissed away with government spending.  The 'Great Society' programs of LBJ is what got us the welfare state we now have.

Resistribution of the wealth has never worked to prop up the underachievers.  If they taxed the rich 100%, it would not produce enough money to meet the appetite for the liberal/socialist programs.  Only a very motivated, hard working middile class will restore us to greatness again.  When there is no requirement or motivation to work hard (welfare) we will not get out of this rut.

It wasn't Boomers that made this the greatest nation, what parrotry.


Their parents built, fought, and died for what you call the greatest nation. The boomers were given a golden ticket by birth. A decimated Europe and Asia, institutionalized bigotry, birth control without AIDS......and a credit card, an unfunded credit card. Boomers created the debt. They voted for it, or failed o defeat the politicians that did.

[calmissile]

It wasn't Boomers that made this the greatest nation, what parrotry.


Their parents built, fought, and died for what you call the greatest nation. The boomers were given a golden ticket by birth. A decimated Europe and Asia, institutionalized bigotry, birth control without AIDS......and a credit card, an unfunded credit card. Boomers created the debt. They voted for it, or failed o defeat the politicians that did.

You have a very distorted view of history.  Please consult with your parents or grandparents.
Our nations achievements after WWII were a result of a hard working middle class, almost no welfare programs, and a balance between labor and business power.  We also had anti-trust laws that broke up monopolies and ensured competition.  We also used tarrifs to protect our industries.

What is your age?

What is your occupation?

[SFandEE]

Guys there's like five of you stop asking me questions, you're old it's old. Listen to the results or don't. I don't care.


Gator, last budget surplus. Democratic president, Republican Congress. Tax rates were higher than they are now. The train wreck came in 2000. Republicans had it in their control and they screwed us all, including the elderly, although they comped you some unfunded drugs and a few nfunded war if you own oil and Halliburton stocks.


I resolved to stay away from this group of politics until after the election. There is nothing but bickering here, I do not care if you are unhappy, worried, or angry. The demographics voting in such harmony to overcome Boomers was amazing. I think it's funny that this group exists and I wonder how FSUW know about this attitude of their older suitors. In general. I wish compromise had been made available, but ou refused.




I know our history. Do you know hat a windfall is? Downhill running? Wind-assisted race? No Boomers died in WWII, not a one. They were our heroes, Boomers were present. Boomers were the hippies of the sixties, the Vietnam fiasco (both sides, what a horribly run war)


It has become a tedious exercise, I will stay out of politics here and contribute and enjoy posts about FSUW. Read the results. I'm not telling ou anything that isn't there.

[pokerintherear]

The map also clearly shows population density.

Is the map not an example of democracy at work?... or do weeds, cows and ears of corn also have a vote?

Your answer is in your question. When the financial system crashes to the ground (I.E. Greece) and it will. Who has all the assets for survival and to maintain the same lifestyle? Where will the inner city masses flock?

[calmissile]

Your answer is in your question. When the financial system crashes to the ground (I.E. Greece) and it will. Who has all the assets for survival and to maintain the same lifestyle? Where will the inner city masses flock?

Excellent point.  The masses will be flocking to rural areas trying to take what YOU have provided for your family (after looting the local stores).

That is why it is important for fiscal conservatives to transer their wealth into something of intrinsic value, or move it to a safe haven.

[Gator]

I know our history. Do you know hat a windfall is? Downhill running? Wind-assisted race? No Boomers died in WWII, not a one. They were our heroes, Boomers were present. Boomers were the hippies of the sixties, the Vietnam fiasco (both sides, what a horribly run war)
 

I like your passion, so keep going.  But please temper your thesis with consistent examples.   Vietnam was created by the same people who fought WWII.  And Vietnam did change remarkably the Boomers' sentiment about war, peace, prosperity, etc.   
 
Very few of us went though the days wasted.   I assert that there is much more drug us today that when I was in my 30s and 40s.   Maybe on Saturday evening while watching SNL we would smoke weed.   Almost all of us worked our ass off, just as strident as the dedicated young people do today.  That's a fact, so get off that horse.

[Gator]

Excellent point.  The masses will be flocking to rural areas trying to take what YOU have provided for your family (after looting the local stores).

That is why it is important for fiscal conservatives to transer their wealth into something of intrinsic value, or move it to a safe haven.

AK-47 assault rifles or whatever they are called have intrinsic value.   Where are you Ecocks?   I am a Republican and own only a 20 ga. shotgun (and haven't touched it in 5-7 years).

[Daveman]

...
That is why it is important for [anyone who sees what is coming] to transfer their wealth into something of intrinsic value, or move it to a safe haven.

[size=78%]  [/size]


I chose to invest in Bullets.. and Rice..  so, when the looters head my way, there'll be plenty of fresh meat to go with the Rice..

[calmissile]

AK-47 assault rifles or whatever they are called have intrinsic value.   Where are you Ecocks?   I am a Republican and own only a 20 ga. shotgun (and haven't touched it in 5-7 years).

I hope it's a 5-7 shot auto.
You better oil it up, you want it to work when you need it.

[calmissile]

[size=78%]  [/size]


I chose to invest in Bullets.. and Rice..  so, when the looters head my way, there'll be plenty of fresh meat to go with the Rice..

+1  Funny.

[LAman]

This is what happens when men get emotional..............

[Gator]

Problem is that in the aftermath of the financial crisis, business did not step up to the plate and instead waited for Govt to chip in.  By then the damage was done and the responsibility of repair handed over.  The interests of the Govt at that point rules.

Quickly.  95% of the businesses kept working, business as usual. 
 
For those taking TARP, TARP was repaid.  What emerged?   Because of Dodd-Frank, the big banks no longer lend, instead taking QE money and buying treasuries. 
 
Ford did not take Fed money but got saddled with the same pro-union deal as GM and Chrysler ($6,000 cost per car just for unfunded pensions, something no other car company pays).  The Big Three will never be competitive.  They will die a slow death.  The next time maybe they will go through bankruptcy and a viable entity emerge.  However, the plan worked as it gave Ohio's electoral votes to Obama (in effect, us taxpayers paid for his reelection even though half of do not like the man).