Parables to describe FSU countries

[LiveFromUkraine]

But where does it end?  If I am an anti Semite, do I get to deny service to Jews?


I'm not certain non discrimination laws are the answer.  Education is.

Eggsactly!  It will only open up to more discrimination and this will just be a tool to do so.

[Boethius]

You examples of muslims serving pork and alcohol do not make sense to me.  I doubt that would be a service they offer to begin with.  Now, if they did offer that service, but only to fellow muslims, then that would be discrimination.

Exactly. 

[Boethius]

HAHA.  Cross post.

[LiveFromUkraine]

HAHA.  Cross post.

ha  I believe we are in the minority on this issue.  Luckily we can still stay and post.   

[Larry1]

ha  I believe we are in the minority on this issue.  Luckily we can still stay and post.   

You may be in the minority here, and probably even in the rest of society, but not among the pezzonovante of the judiciary, politics, and the media.  And they usually prevail no matter what public opinion is.

[LiveFromUkraine]

You may be in the minority here, and probably even in the rest of society, but not among the pezzonovante of the judiciary, politics, and the media.  And they usually prevail no matter what public opinion is.

Unfortunately, I think the media has way more influence over popular opinion than it should. 

[calmissile]

Unfortunately, I think the media has way more influence over popular opinion than it should.

Especially in America!  Those without critical thinking skills will still not bother to look beyond Network Media for corroboration of news stories.

[Anathema]

But where does it end?  If I am an anti Semite, do I get to deny service to Jews?


I'm not certain non discrimination laws are the answer.  Education is.

Um, yes.  Their establishment, their rules.  Don't like it?  Too bad, GTFO.  Go find somewhere else to serve you.  It's not that difficult to comprehend. 

[Larry1]

A guy went into a number of Muslim bakeries in Dearborn, Michigan (or, as we call it here, Dearbornistan) and asked if they would make a wedding cake for him and his homosexual partner.  Many of them turned him down. One told him that he could get one down the street at Kroger.  The video is below. The action doesn't start until the 1:48 mark.

But I don't see homosexual activists going after Muslims for this sort of thing. I wonder why?

[Boethius]

Um, yes.  Their establishment, their rules.  Don't like it?  Too bad, GTFO.  Go find somewhere else to serve you.  It's not that difficult to comprehend. 

So you don't find any of these offensive?

[Boethius]

But I don't see homosexual activists going after Muslims for this sort of thing. I wonder why?

Because no self respecting gay man would live in Dearborn?

Seriously, here is one gay activist's response -

Honestly, this is so stupid I'm not even sure where to start.

Rush Limbaugh had a rant about how the LGBT community is afraid of "battling" Muslims over wedding cakes, because our real goal is an "all-out assault on Christianity." His single point of reference? A heavily edited video in Dearborn, Mich. which also is my hometown. The video is complete bull.

In the video, some conservative Faux News wannabe called Steven Crowder acts out a bunch of flaming-gay stereotypes while asking for offensive and silly titles to be put on a wedding cake. This included asking for "Same Sex 4ever" to be emblazoned on his cake because, you know, someone would actually pay for that.

Amazingly, none of his requests are refused. Heck, I would've turned him away just for being such an idiot. What he's asking for is also fair game for refusal because, uh, the word "sex." These guys know what kind of game they're playing.

In one scene, a woman wearing a hijab is handling his order. She asks him, "Wedding?" Crowder replies, "Yeah."

She asks, "Who's the wedding for?"

Crowder jumps back in shock from the counter and practically shouts, "It's for, uh, two people getting married."

She's just trying to be conversational, bro. Wallah. You want a gay wedding cake made by Muslims? Dearborn's gonna bake it for you. Hamdullah.

In another scene, the guy goes to a bread bakery where they're churning out fresh pita in a brick oven. It's obvious there are no cakes or sweets in the bakery. The place just makes bread. Despite not being able to take an order for a wedding cake, the men behind the counter still refer him to a place where he can get wedding photographs across the street, inshallah.

The only person who answers negatively to Crowder is a fellow who works at Hallab bakery on Warren road. I've gotten Nammoura there before -- it's pretty damn good. Unfortunately, there's one minor issue: Hallab doesn't bake wedding cakes. At all. Hallab does cater for weddings if you want a nice assortment of Lebanese sweets -- but they don't bake wedding cakes. You can even look on their website.

So please, don't listen to Rush Limbaugh or the guy who made this video. Dearborn's a diverse, wonderful city. It's the hometown of Henry Ford, the headquarters for Ford Motors Company and my family's lived here since they settled in 1803. We love everybody here: gay, straight, Christian or Muslim. Dearborn is what the rest of the world would look like if people learned how to get along.

Oh, and, uh... if all this is giving you a hankering for sweets, you're missing out if you don't order from Shatila. One tray of their assorted baklava and you'll never be the same. Allahu Akbar!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-stone/rush-limbaugh-dearborn-an_b_7002854.html

[LiveFromUkraine]

Um, yes.  Their establishment, their rules.  Don't like it?  Too bad, GTFO.  Go find somewhere else to serve you.  It's not that difficult to comprehend. 

Um, no.  Those are the laws so it doesn't matter what their rules are.  Don't like it?  Too bad, GTFO.  Go find somewhere else to start a business.  It's not that difficult to comprehend.   

[Muzh]

Because no self respecting gay man would live in Dearborn?

Seriously, here is one gay activist's response -

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brian-stone/rush-limbaugh-dearborn-an_b_7002854.html

Oh, you mean facts were gathered from radio talk shows?


How typical.

[calmissile]

But where does it end?  If I am an anti Semite, do I get to deny service to Jews?


I'm not certain non discrimination laws are the answer.  Education is.

We agree on that.  However the left chooses to use government regulations to try to FORCE us to think in their 'politically correct' manner.  Seems to me there is an inherent property of the human mind that causes people to want to think for themselves and not have governments or religions do the thinking for us.

[Muzh]

But where does it end?  If I am an anti Semite, do I get to deny service to Jews?


I'm not certain non discrimination laws are the answer.  Education is.

Have you ever stop to think why there are discrimination laws?

[jone]

Donknow, Muzhy.  Can't see out of these eyeholes the Missus cut in our sheets.  Lemme get this fixed and I'll give an answer.

[AC]

I agree.  It is absurd that an agency of the government can levy large fines and/or attorneys fees on people who, because of their religious convictions, do not want to sell a wedding cake for a same sex wedding or take photographs of that wedding.  This has already happened. The photographer was in New Mexico and the bakery was in Oregon.

It's also happened to a florist in Richland, Washington state.  We've all also heard about the Pizzeria who was asked a hypothetical question by a "liberal" reporter and due to the avalanche of hate-speech against them they initially went into hiding. 

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/04/19/us-usa-gaymarriage-washington-idUSBRE93I08820130419

[AC]

A guy went into a number of Muslim bakeries in Dearborn, Michigan (or, as we call it here, Dearbornistan) and asked if they would make a wedding cake for him and his homosexual partner.  Many of them turned him down. One told him that he could get one down the street at Kroger.  The video is below. The action doesn't start until the 1:48 mark.

But I don't see homosexual activists going after Muslims for this sort of thing. I wonder why?

The clear and obvious answer Larry is the "liberal" double-standard.  Just like Tim Cook, the gay CEO of Apple is not going to refuse to do business with Saudi Arabia and other countries where there is real discrimination as opposed to common sense discretion, the elite liberal media in the USA always gives Muslims a pass but actively goes after Christians.

[AC]

Especially in America!  Those without critical thinking skills will still not bother to look beyond Network Media for corroboration of news stories.

   Too bad that zinger went right over his head, Cal.

[AC]

So you don't find any of these offensive?

You are committing the usual logical fallacy of equating real discrimination to not giving a blessing to an unusual sexual practice.  Ones sexuality is entirely different then ones skin color, ancestry, religion, etc. 

[AC]

I think that in America the general public has lost any remaining shred of common sense. It would be just plain stupid of me to walk into a bakery and threaten that they if they refuse to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist event, then I'll sue for discrimination. It is dumb to say that "well, they shouldn't be allowed to be in business" just because my request goes against the religious views of another. That is not discrimination, it is a situation that calls for mutual respect.

A gay photographer might not feel comfortable photographing a conference at certain conservative and/or religious functions. It would be just as disrespectful to demand that he do so in violation of his/her views. Get a clue--there are lots of photographers from which to choose. It seems that the only diversity allowed in some societies is the diversity that is acceptable to certain groups.

Diversity works both ways. Mutual respect is a two-way street.

 
It boils down to common sense.  Unfortunately when the government gets involved, common sense usually goes out the window.  I found this interesting article which goes similar to what you were presenting above.

excerpt
A black man shouldn’t be forced to bake a cake for a KKK party. A Jew shouldn’t be forced to bake a cake for a Nazi shindig.  A Muslim shouldn’t be forced to bake a cake with pork. A gay man shouldn’t be forced to bake a cake for a Westboro Baptist Church’s “God hates F@gs” party and a Christian business should not be forced to participate in a gay marriage. For that matter, a Christian shouldn’t be forced to bake a cake for an orgy, a Satanist mass or an atheist meeting either.

When you say that a Christian shouldn’t become a baker, florist or wedding photographer unless he’s willing to violate his religious beliefs, you’re directly contradicting the First Amendment which “prohibits the making of any law…impeding the free exercise of religion.” When you make it impossible for a Christian to enter a profession without violating his faith, then you are violating the First Amendment. That should make Freedom of Religion laws completely unnecessary and if that doesn’t do the trick, then common sense should do the job because businesses already refuse to serve customers for every reason under the sun.

Here at the beach, many businesses have a “No Shoes, No Shirt, No Service” sign. In certain areas, bars and restaurants will ask you to leave if you’re wearing gang colors. If you make too much noise in a movie theater or even try to take in your own food, you will be told to leave. If a liberal atheist gives speeches for pay, you can’t legally force him to give a conservative speech to a group of Christians. For that matter, even Apple, which attacked Christians in Indiana and Arkansas who don’t want to violate their religious beliefs, can and does reject applications it finds offensive. Apple also does business with nations like Saudi Arabia, Nigeria, Iran and Qatar that despicably murder their own citizens for being gay — but that’s a different column.

http://rightwingnews.com/john-hawkins/i-am-not-going-to-your-gay-wedding-please-protest-so-i-can-set-up-a-gofundme-account/

[Boethius]

You are committing the usual logical fallacy of equating real discrimination to not giving a blessing to an unusual sexual practice.  Ones sexuality is entirely different then ones skin color, ancestry, religion, etc.

I don't think so.  I don't think most people choose to be gay. 

[AC]

I don't think so.  I don't think most people choose to be gay.

It doesn't matter.  The majority of Americans need not cater their lives to weird practices of 5% of the population, not per the Constitution of the USA.

One could just as easily argue that conservative Religious persons do not choose believe in God, they just do.

More importantly what is being missed by you and others is that the reporter who questioned the lady at the Pizzeria in Indiana committed entrapment and then sensationalized the story.  The Pizzeria never refused anyone service.  They hypothetically refused to cater a gay wedding.  That is the distinction that you and some others are ignoring.

[AC]

I agree.  It is absurd that an agency of the government can levy large fines and/or attorneys fees on people who, because of their religious convictions, do not want to sell a wedding cake for a same sex wedding or take photographs of that wedding.  This has already happened. The photographer was in New Mexico and the bakery was in Oregon.

This was the response of the Christian baker out of Oregon.  Sadly those without critical thinking skills cannot seem to recognize and comprehend the obvious, but here it is:

quote
"Our culture has accepted 2 huge lies. The first is that if you disagree with someone's lifestyle, you must fear or hate them. Second is that to love someone means that you must agree with everything they believe or do. Both are nonsense. You don't have to compromise convictions to be compassionate."  (quotation is from Rick Warren, however she posted it on her twitter feed)

[Boethius]

It doesn't matter.  The majority of Americans need not cater their lives to weird practices of 5% of the population, not per the Constitution of the USA.

One could just as easily argue that conservative Religious persons do not choose believe in God, they just do.

More importantly what is being missed by you and others is that the reporter who questioned the lady at the Pizzeria in Indiana committed entrapment and then sensationalized the story.  The Pizzeria never refused anyone service.  They hypothetically refused to cater a gay wedding.  That is the distinction that you and some others are ignoring.

I never mentioned the pizzeria.  Further, any gay couple that would have their wedding catered by a pizzeria would have to turn in their gay card.  Finally, that "entrapment" made that woman over $867,000, so she should be thanking the reporter.

Who is to say homosexual practices are "weird"?  There are many gay couples that love each other, that stay together their whole lives, that raise children, and take care of their parents.  Isn't love the reason for living?  Further, straight couples exist who don't have children, or who are on their second, third, or fourth marriages, or who are swingers, or who are into other non practices.  Some would find those practices weird.  Should they be denied service because they don't conform to someone else's idea of what is "normal"?


The average person would consider a man in his forties who has never been married, and not actively seeking a wife as a closet gay or somehow weird.  Should he be denied service because he doesn't conform to society's definition of normality?


I doubt God would condone the visceral hatred that is disguised as some sort of "love" of God.  The Pharisees still live.