The Struggle For Ukraine

[Trenchcoat]

Had to chuckle to myself at this little story:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/mums-life-shattered-after-partner-27030547?int_source=mantis_rec&int_medium=web&int_campaign=more_like_this

Don't think it shows a pic of his wife, odds are nothing glamourous. My guess is Ukrainian girl will marry the dude to get a visa for a permanent stay then ditch him and go for an upgrade to a more wealthier guy. A case of Ukrainian girl grasping to get up the pole.

[krimster2]

"You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!"

Then the French will eat cake
and it will taste much better than the vegamite and dingo burgers you eat

look, we here on RWD, all understand
that your ancestors were kicked out of the UK and sent to a penal colony and became sheep herders
and you couldn’t get laid in Ukraine if your freakin life depended on it
however, none of us feel any sympathy towards you
nope, we all find you irritating, like a bad rash, that needs some ointment applied

instead of working towards overcoming your many obvious issues
you instead want to annoy US with them, like your Putin fetish for example
I mean, seriously?  What kind of borderline homoerotic adolescent hero worship is this?
Sounds like the kind that’s derived from complete and total sexual frustration

Confucious said, “man who has sex problem, will have solution in hand”
so perhaps that may give you some insight into solving your conundrum
unless that hasn’t worked for you either
sad...

[Grumpy]

 YouTube has taken down more than 70,000 videos and 9,000 channels related to the war in Ukraine for violating content guidelines, including removal of videos that referred to the invasion as a “liberation mission”.

YouTube did not provide a breakdown of the taken-down content and channels but Mohan said much of it represented Kremlin narratives about the invasion. “I don’t have the specific numbers, but you can imagine a lot of it being the narratives that are coming from Russian government, or Russian actors on behalf of the Russian government,” he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals

[Jumper1]

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!

Turkey wants everyone to let them.kill their kurds wihout anyone saying* that's not nice*

They will get over it. There is good reason they joined in 1952 ,and they have remained.
Their continued transparent operation of the straights is crucial to their own security as well.

[Boethius]

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!

So what's your proposed solution?   For Ukrainians to lay down arms and let Russians come in and summarily execute civilians, and rape women and children into submission? If they refuse, they can just be shot, or removed to "filtration camps" for "reconditioning".  To let them ban the Ukrainian language (as has been done in the past by Russia), because botox addict Putin doesn't believe Ukrainians exist?  Heck, why stop there?  Let them reestablish Russian preeminence in the Baltics, the "stans", Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.  Let them redeploy Russian troops all the way to the middle of Berlin.  That will surely result in peace!  Let's hand all the farmlands in Ukraine over to Putin's inner circle.  I am certain that once Russian oligarchs control the most fertile land in the world, they will feed the world, benevolently.  We can build a shrine to Putin, and worship daily.  All news, from Vladivostok to Lisbon, can be provided by Russia Today.  No need for other press sources, when Mother Russia is capable of keeping the masses properly informed. 

[ML]

Boe, stop holding back !!

[Patagonie]

OMG.

The delusion is strong. I know you don't like Russian military actions but stay in touch with reality.



Apparently ALL of them have now surrendered (in Azovstal).

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!
 

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!

 
Concerning cereals France is the first producer in the UE. 
Even if Ukraine is exporting 40% fewer cereals than it's used to doing, it's around 4% of the world's production. 
Concerning the french revolution, it could be, but that's not new it started before the Covid with the yellow jackets.
You will be surprised but the main reasons were 1/ the prices of oil 2/ the 80 km/h (the speed was 90 km/h before on most French roads).
 
Of course, nowadays the purchase power problem is more present than 4 years ago.
But the destruction of the middle class is an ongoing process for 40 years and it's not happening in France only.

[krimster2]

Good solution BO,
but do you think Putin’s statue should be larger than “The Motherland Calls” statue in Volgograd, or the same size?  And also don’t forget renaming St. Petersburg as Putinpolskiberg

Pat, sorry about the decline of France’s middle class, it’s all CLEARLY Biden’s fault, too bad you do’t get Fox News in France to hear the pravda, er I mean truth, instead of Le Figaro or whatever

PS
bonus read about Putin's EARLY cocaine smuggling days, before it evolved into its current form which I can't comment on
http://www.rferl.org/a/putin-cocaine-connection/31855099.html

[Boethius]

Good solution BO,
but do you think Putin’s statue should be larger than “The Motherland Calls” statue in Volgograd, or the same size?  And also don’t forget renaming St. Petersburg as Putinpolskiberg.

Of course, the statue should be larger.  There would also be smaller versions, so that individuals can have replicas in their mandatory home shrines, with three candles always lit, and frankincense, myrrh, and rose incense burned 24/7.

[krimster2]

hopefully it's not done in Greco-Roman nude style, otherwise they'd have to put fake owls on his willy, so the pigeons don't perch there, geeezzz

[Patagonie]

hopefully it's not done in Greco-Roman nude style, otherwise they'd have to put fake owls on his willy, so the pigeons don't perch there, geeezzz

 

[Chelseaboy]

YouTube has taken down more than 70,000 videos and 9,000 channels related to the war in Ukraine for violating content guidelines, including removal of videos that referred to the invasion as a “liberation mission”.

YouTube did not provide a breakdown of the taken-down content and channels but Mohan said much of it represented Kremlin narratives about the invasion. “I don’t have the specific numbers, but you can imagine a lot of it being the narratives that are coming from Russian government, or Russian actors on behalf of the Russian government,” he said.

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/may/22/youtube-ukraine-invasion-russia-video-removals

Oh dear..what will rwd123 watch now ?

[Chelseaboy]

OMG.

The delusion is strong. I know you don't like Russian military actions but stay in touch with reality.



Apparently ALL of them have now surrendered (in Azovstal).

The food crisis is heating up globally. Europe is attempting to starve the Ukrainians as much as the Russians by emptying UA food stores. Small problem for the Europeans - it has to be transported via Belarus, and the Baltic ports aren't designed for such exports... so may need to be exported via... Saint Petersburg!
 

The European leaders are utterly clueless. Just about fell out of my chair laughing at Turkey and Croatia's responses to Sweden and Finland's applications for NATO membership. Pat - I hope you're ready for the next French revolution! You'll own/eat/have nothing and like it!

If you read what i said .. i said "quite possible".


You do realize that possible isn't the same as saying they would not ?


Having said that i am surprised the Azov Battalion surrendered..orders or not...because there's a high chance they'll be tortured and executed by the Russians...with the Russian Parliament calling for them to be designated as terrorists.


As i posted before they surrendered if it was me i'd have gone down fighting orders or not..not because i'm particularly heroic,but i'd rather that than let the innocent women and children raping, then executing ,Russian Orcs get their hands on me.


By the way,regarding staying in touch with reality and delusion.... how's your "the war will be over in days" prediction back in February working out for you ?

[Chelseaboy]

So what's your proposed solution?   For Ukrainians to lay down arms and let Russians come in and summarily execute civilians, and rape women and children into submission? If they refuse, they can just be shot, or removed to "filtration camps" for "reconditioning".  To let them ban the Ukrainian language (as has been done in the past by Russia), because botox addict Putin doesn't believe Ukrainians exist?  Heck, why stop there?  Let them reestablish Russian preeminence in the Baltics, the "stans", Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Armenia.  Let them redeploy Russian troops all the way to the middle of Berlin.  That will surely result in peace!  Let's hand all the farmlands in Ukraine over to Putin's inner circle.  I am certain that once Russian oligarchs control the most fertile land in the world, they will feed the world, benevolently.  We can build a shrine to Putin, and worship daily.  All news, from Vladivostok to Lisbon, can be provided by Russia Today.  No need for other press sources, when Mother Russia is capable of keeping the masses properly informed.

You shouldn't have posted this Boe...rwd123 will be getting all excited at the thought of what you posted happening.

[rwd123]

So what's your proposed solution?   

Negotiate a settlement. Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people there was a settlement that was ignored (Minsk Agreement), the US/UK 'advised' the Ukrainians in March not to negotiate, and the longer the conflict prevails the less bargaining power Elensky and co. will have.

Your post was an emotional outburst. Emotions won't resolve this conflict.

Putin wasn't lying when he said he didn't want to occupy Ukraine. It's simply being erased. Kherson is already Russia-d. Where next, Odesa? Dnipro? Kharkov? The Poles may pick up an eraser too and what will be left of Ukraine will resemble Moldova - a small, corrupt impoverished backwater in Eastern Europe.

I'm not advocating this - I'm simply the messenger.

As for Putin's mob controlling farmland... do you think the average Ukrainian benefits now? How much of it, and industrial production, is owned or controlled by Ukrainian oligarchs and foreign actors? One set of thieves replaced by another set of thieves.

[rwd123]

Of course, nowadays the purchase power problem is more present than 4 years ago.
But the destruction of the middle class is an ongoing process for 40 years and it's not happening in France only.

I agree, but the process is accelerating. I am more concerned for Europeans than other places. I think they will be hit harder than other parts of the OECD.

[Boethius]

Negotiate a settlement. Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people there was a settlement that was ignored (Minsk Agreement), the US/UK 'advised' the Ukrainians in March not to negotiate, and the longer the conflict prevails the less bargaining power Elensky and co. will have.

The failure of Minsk lies at the feet of first, the DPR and second, Russia.  Not Ukraine.  Not the EU.  Not the US. 

Here is what the US stated:

US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday that the United States and Ukraine are "united" in supporting the Minsk agreements as the way forward to resolve the conflict. But he also hinted that the agreement alone isn't a one-stop solution, highlighting the challenges that the agreement presents.

"Minsk does not spell out some issues of sequencing when it comes to the steps that the parties need to take," Blinken said, adding: "Ukraine's been approaching this in good faith. We have not to date seen Russia do the same."

Duncan Allan, associate fellow of the Russia and Eurasia Program at London's Chatham House think tank, wrote that ultimately the argument about Minsk is this: "Is Ukraine sovereign, as Ukrainians insist, or should its sovereignty be limited, as Russia demands?"

http://www.cnn.com/2022/02/09/europe/minsk-agreement-ukraine-russia-explainer-intl/index.html

That is hardly "advising Ukraine not to settle". 

You should try getting your information from sources other than Russia Today.

Your post was an emotional outburst. Emotions won't resolve this conflict.

Putin wasn't lying when he said he didn't want to occupy Ukraine. It's simply being erased. Kherson is already Russia-d. Where next, Odesa? Dnipro? Kharkov? The Poles may pick up an eraser too and what will be left of Ukraine will resemble Moldova - a small, corrupt impoverished backwater in Eastern Europe.

I'm not advocating this - I'm simply the messenger.

As for Putin's mob controlling farmland... do you think the average Ukrainian benefits now? How much of it, and industrial production, is owned or controlled by Ukrainian oligarchs and foreign actors? One set of thieves replaced by another set of thieves.

Uh, no.  It was sarcasm.

Yes, Putin wasn't lying about occupying Ukraine directly.  Rather, he wished to install a puppet regime.  Which is, de facto, the same thing. 

48% of Ukraine's farmland is farmed by individual Ukrainians.  There are two or three oligarchs who farm large tracts of land, and the rest is leased to foreign corporations.  Ukraine has had moratoriums on land devolution since 2001.  It can't be purchased, banks won’t lend on lands because they can't be seized, and there is no way to purchase land outright.  Foreign entities and a few oligarchs lease large tracts of land.

The restriction on land ownership (meaning it is leased from the state) was ruled illegal by the EU Court on Human Rights.  Land ownership reform was implemented July 1, 2021, and all purchases were tracked, to ensure oligarchs could not purchase lands.  Foreigners are not entitled to purchase lands.  That may change in 2024, subject to a national referendum on the issue. 

I don't see an issue with large scale farm operations.  Foreign ownership of farmland is restricted in most of Canada, but there is no restriction on foreign corporations leasing farmland, and that does occur.

[krimster2]

Karl Marx said over 150 years ago

that the dynamics of private capital accumulation inevitably lead to the concentration of wealth in ever fewer hands

we live in era of ever increasing income income inequality, and this is why socialism is the subject of such negativity in right wing media

but the class war is being perverted into a cultural war, based on race and religion by the upper class to exert political control over the lower classes

agree or disagree?
Discuss amongst yourselves

[Bee Farmer]

Negotiate a settlement. Unfortunately for the Ukrainian people there was a settlement that was ignored (Minsk Agreement)

But there was already a negotiated settlement.  The Belovezh Accords.  This settlement was ignored by Russia.

There was another negotiated settlement.  The Budapest Memorandum.  This settlement was ignored by Russia.

Russia keeps negotiating settlements with Ukraine, and agrees to respect Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity (as it was at the date of the agreements) and Russia keeps ignoring the agreements they have made.

It is not the US/UK fault that Ukraine doesn't want to negotiate a settlement with Russia.  This is 100% Russia's fault, as they have shown time and time again that they will not honor any agreement they make.

[Grumpy]

Of course, the statue should be larger.  There would also be smaller versions, so that individuals can have replicas in their mandatory home shrines, with three candles always lit, and frankincense, myrrh, and rose incense burned 24/7.

Please don't infringe on my patent for the urinal freshener version.

[krimster2]

I have a patent for an electrified Putin urinal idol
one transformer lead goes to the idol, and the other to a metal plate on the floor
it has a voltage adjustment dial
I set mine to “stun” and find its effects to be very therapeutic
although it does throw off my aim

[Trenchcoat]

Karl Marx said over 150 years ago

that the dynamics of private capital accumulation inevitably lead to the concentration of wealth in ever fewer hands

we live in era of ever increasing income income inequality, and this is why socialism is the subject of such negativity in right wing media

but the class war is being perverted into a cultural war, based on race and religion by the upper class to exert political control over the lower classes

agree or disagree?
Discuss amongst yourselves

I wouldn't disagree that some of that may be true, I think that  the rich often put a lot of their money into efforts to support the continuation of their privileged position. This may take place through the media, government/political parties, etc.

I think though that there is a more basic undercurrent to the issue of wealth also. Basically the dynamic of supply and demand most notably in relation to supply of labour and the demand for it but also for housing and for food. Population is a big issue here as the greater and greater population that has come about on this planet the more resources are split between an ever greater population. So housing tends to get more dense, more compact and less pleasant for most as a result. I think ever growing populations is the biggest problem here. Big supply of labour means that, that labour can be bought very cheaply. That means a lot of people having to work for very low wages and hence attain very low wealth.

[Chelseaboy]

Russia has now suffered more military losses in three months in Ukraine than the Soviet Union did in nine years in Afghanistan.


Apparently Russia has now deployed ALL it's forces to Ukraine ..there are no reserves left.


All combat-ready units of the Russian Army are taking part in the war in Ukraine.


Even the only special peacekeeping brigade in Russia has already been sent to the war.


Moscow and other large cities of Russia are protected only by the police and Rossgvardia.


Meanwhile nearly 50 Defence leaders from around the World met today and agreed to send more advanced weapons to Ukraine...they see the opportunity to destroy Russia's military i suspect.

[Boethius]

This is a good article about the Russian economy-

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/paul-krugman-how-the-west-is-strangling-putin-s-economy/ar-AAXBj8P?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7e792cea6ae947bfb90f110008e7708e

[ML]

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/paul-krugman-how-the-west-is-strangling-putin-s-economy/ar-AAXBj8P?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=7e792cea6ae947bfb90f110008e7708e

Could be; but I don't see it (strangling) yet.
A billion dollars a day coming in from oil and gas.