How to proceed?

[Faux Pas]

I do not want to imply or recommend doing an AOS rather than the conventional Fiance Visa or Spousal Visa.  Circumstances and requirements are different for each of us.  The traditional K-1/CR-1 visas are the most documented and may well be the best option for the largest number of members.  Getting married outside the country and immigrating as a married spouse is just one of many, many ways to immigrate.

It is also usually the quickest and path of least resistance.

I know a RW who was in the U.S. on a 3 month tourist visa. While here she met a man (eventually married) and overstayed her visa to explore a relationship with him. She was out of status and stayed out of status for almost 4 years. They knew where she was the entire time as she was in constant contact with USCIS as she was trying to get AOS for obvious reasons. She eventually married (and divorced) the man and had a baby during that time. She was finally approved and they sent her a 10 year green card. She even skipped all of the steps up to and after the 2 year green card. My point here is, nothing is cut and dried no matter how much we as forum debaters and lawyers discuss it here 

[BillyB]

I cannot rationalize the apparent large differences in immigration policies between applying from a foreign country and those already on US soil.

Those already on US soil have been screened which saves a step that Immigration would have to do to those trying to get on US soil. Those on US soil have some knowledge how America works and after experiencing it, they desire to stay. America needs immigrants to help run our industrial machine since citizens are having less children. Green Card Lottery is still available to those from the FSU. It helps bring in immigrants and diversity to our nation. Making it simpler for those on US soil to get a green card makes it simpler for Immigration to get immigrants into this nation.

[ML]

Some are  still confusing the issue.

There is no question that a person can come on K-1 visa, get married and then AOS.

There is no question that a person can get married overseas and come on CR or IR visa and then AOS.

There is no question that a person can come into USA on student, work or tourist visa, marry a USA citizen and then AOS.

There is no question than people can come into USA on various humanitarian visas and then AOS.

There is no question that a person can come on various types of H visas for skilled professionals and then AOS.

There is no question that people can come into USA on various types of E visas which requires an investment of X dollars into USA to start a business employing Y number of people and then AOS.

But look at Part 2 of I-485.

There are listed categories (a) through (h) of persons eligible to AOS.

None of them apply to a person who comes into USA on student, work or tourist visa and simply applies for AOS . . . without having already married a USA citizen.

The gal in the current discussion could not have applied for AOS (given her circumstance she told the OP) because she couldn't even have found a block to check from the categories a through f.  You don't check a block, they send back your application.  You check a block that is not true; then it's immigration fraud which leads to permanent bar, etc.

Yes, we can say that we heard X,Y, Z say they did this; but don't believe it for a minute.  Persons who claim such are merely trying to hide something related to the real method they used to AOS . . . or are hiding the fact they did not AOS and are still here illegally.

[BillyB]

None of them apply to a person who comes into USA on student, work or tourist visa and simply applies for AOS . . . without having already married a USA citizen.

People who come to the US on any type of visa can qualify for AOS. They don't have to get married, they simply need to have family members living in America. Karl's lady's family are American citizens and they can start the paperwork to AOS.


http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/adjustmentofstatus/


http://www.hooyou.com/i-485/eligible.html


http://www.hooyou.com/i-485/vwp-filing-memo.html

[ML]

Not true Billy.

Read the references you posted.

"Immediate relatives" of a U.S. citizen refers to the parents, spouses, widows, and unmarried, minor (under 21 years of age) children of a U.S. citizen. Immediate relatives of a U.S. citizen can immigrate to the United States without being subject to any numerical restrictions, unlike other close family members of U.S. citizens or permanent residents.

Sure, other family categories can apply IN THEIR HOME COUNTRY, and be put on waiting lists of 10 years or more.


Further:

Unauthorized Employment, Unlawful Status or Failure to Maintain Status -- Aliens who have engaged in unauthorized employment, or who were not in lawful status at the time of filing the adjustment application, or who have failed to continuously maintain status for even a single day since their entry into the United States are barred from adjustment of status.

Exceptions -- This rule has several exceptions, which include:

        Immediate relatives (spouses, parents and unmarried children under 21-years of age) of U.S. citizens are still eligible to adjust their status;

= = = = =

The woman referred to by OP was not in legal status, thus could not apply for AOS.  The only exceptions are as listed above.

[BillyB]

ML, it's clear based on the link below that Karl's lady or her family isn't doing anything illegal. The lady doesn't have to be in legal status as long as our government has her paperwork and cashed her payment. Besides, when it doubt, there is a waiver for everything. When getting a tourist visa for my MIL, I was thinking of extending the time she could stay and changing the ticket. I was told by Homeland security she can overstay her visa as long as her paperwork was getting processed. If by a small chance they denied a tourist visa extension, she would then be illegally in America. Because Karl's lady has parents and siblings as American citizens, there's almost a zero chance she will be denied a green card. If our government doesn't do much to return illegal immigrants to their country after they crossed the border without paying for a tourist visa, what chance will they return home those that do pay?


http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/familybasedimmigration/categories.html

[ML]

Billy, you are not reading what you are referencing.

A USA citizen can get their parents into USA.

But a USA citizen cannot get their child into USA if they are over a certain age or are married.

Yes, anyone (brother, sister, child, cousin, non-relative) can apply for immigration FROM THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

Yes, if USCIS accepts your I-130 and I-485 and sends you NOA . . . then you can stay until case is decided.

But USCIS won't accept or send you NOA if you don't qualify under one of the categories (a) through (h) listed on the I-485.

And yes, it is a terrible mis-justice that people can come illegally and perhaps be allowed to stay under amnesty . . . while at the same time others are waiting years and years to immigrate legally.

But none of the current amnesty programs apply to the OP's woman.  She came from the wrong country.

Oh, I just noticed that the last reference you posted has completely false info.  And it is even contradictory, so a bad typo situation in its entirety.

See if you can notice the absurdity of the wording as to who is eligible.  Hint:  What is difference between son or daughter . . . and child?  And what person is not either over 21 or under 21?

[calmissile]

I don't see this as cut and dried on either side of the argument.  This is probably a case for an immigration attorney to work.  There are many exceptions and immigration has a lot of leeway besides what is codified into law as depicted on the web site.  Several months ago while researching this topic, I followed some immigration attorney's cases which got into case law and court rulings.  It's amazing how much more there is to law than reading the code.

For example there is the battered spouse avenue.  It is possible her husband was here on a legit work visa like so many in our city working for ESRI.  Perhaps he left and she stayed behind and became out of status because she did not follow him.  If she claims it was a result of domestic violence, she clearly has an avenue to seek a green card.  There are many exceptions to the 'rules' we read about.   Do we even know if they got legally divorced?

Here is a link to some of the exceptions.  We don't know enough to speculate on her circumstances but it would appear to me that she may have retained an attorney to work her immigration issues.

http://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/battered-spouse-children-parents

In any case, I would be suspicious of her motives to want to marry quickly since it would assist her in getting a green card with a lot less hassle than using an attorney.  If the OP is able to delve deeper into the specifics of her case, he would be better informed to evaluate her motives which could be innocent or worse case, someone trying to avoid deportation.

[BillyB]

Billy, you are not reading what you are referencing.

A USA citizen can get their parents into USA.

But a USA citizen cannot get their child into USA if they are over a certain age or are married.

Yes, anyone (brother, sister, child, cousin, non-relative) can apply for immigration FROM THEIR HOME COUNTRY.

Please read my last link. It clearly states US citizens can petition their relatives. Sons and daughters can be ANY age over 21. They don't have to leave America to do so. My mom sponsored her siblings and parents from Vietnam and she did it from right here in America.


The link says a US citizen can sponsor their siblings as long as the sponsor is age 21+. Karl's lady has a sibling that is an American citizen.


The link also says a US citizen can sponsor their unmarried child over 21. Karl's lady, unmarried and over 21, has parents that are American citizens that can do so.


I'm not sure how you think they're breaking the law with those facts but immigration knows where she's living and if they want to deport her, they can do so. My guess is that she will be granted a green card and she will be legal here with or without Karl's help.

[Steamer]

Please read my last link. It clearly states US citizens can petition their relatives. Sons and daughters can be ANY age over 21. They don't have to leave America to do so. My mom sponsored her siblings and parents from Vietnam and she did it from right here in America.


The link says a US citizen can sponsor their siblings as long as the sponsor is age 21+. Karl's lady has a sibling that is an American citizen.


The link also says a US citizen can sponsor their unmarried child over 21. Karl's lady, unmarried and over 21, has parents that are American citizens that can do so.


I'm not sure how you think they're breaking the law with those facts but immigration knows where she's living and if they want to deport her, they can do so. My guess is that she will be granted a green card and she will be legal here with or without Karl's help.

Save your breath Billy. Nothing is going to change peoples preconceived notions, not experience or examples.

[calmissile]

Billy,

You are correct in that the parents can sponsor their daughter, however you are failing to read the priority system for those relatives.  As ML pointed out, since the daughter is over 21 she does not fall into the unlimited category and must have obtain a priority date based upon the quotas that are issued.  As ML indicated, this can take years to successfully immigrate.  If she were under 21, she would fall into the unlimited category.

These links farther down in your reference explain the differences between limited and unlimited categories...

http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/familybasedimmigration/immediate-relatives-us-citizens.html

http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/familybasedimmigration/preference-categories.html

There are other methods for her to legally get a green card.  Check these out for example.  As I indicated earlier, there is a great deal of flexibility available to immigration authorities and as you can read, it is not cut and dried.  No doubt these are categories that the immigration attorneys use to earn their fees.

http://www.immihelp.com/greencard/familybasedimmigration/extreme-hardship-waiver.html

[ML]

Instructions for I-485

Who Is Not Eligible to Adjust Status:

You are out of status . . . with exceptions for Immediate Relative of US Citizen (parent, spouse, widow, widower, or unmarried child under 21 years old).

= = = =

And, I already stated there are many loopholes, mainly related to humanitarian issues.

I was talking with driver taking me from airport to hotel once.  He was from Pakistan.  Said he had worked in house of US Ambassador, and when Ambassador went back to USA, he arranged for immigration of this man and his family to USA.

Ambassadors work for US Secretary of State, so I am sure there is power there to do something that doesn't fit the blocks.

[BillyB]

however you are failing to read the priority system for those relatives.

Karl isn't asking how long it'll take for his lady to get a green card. I'm not debating how long it takes either. Karl is wondering whether or not she's doing things legal or illegally and we at the forum need to give him peace of mind his lady isn't doing anything wrong and he can proceed with this relationship knowing he's not going to get used as a green card mule.

[ML]

Instructions for I-485

Who Is Not Eligible to Adjust Status:

You are out of status . . . with exceptions for Immediate Relative of US Citizen (parent, spouse, widow, widower, or unmarried child under 21 years old).

= = = = = =

I didn't go far enough apparently.  The above persons are the only ones who can adjust their status while residing in the USA.

Yes, others can get a number and wait in line for possible immigration into USA . . . but this waiting in line is done OUTSIDE THE USA.

Karl's gal is not a parent of a legal age USA citizen, she is not the widow of a USA citizen, she is not the unmarried child under age 21 of a USA citizen.

The only way she can AOS while remaining in USA is to have a USA citizen spouse.

Yes, her USA citizen parent can sponsor her under the limited quota category for immigration into USA . . . WHILE SHE IS LIVING OUTSIDE USA.  It will be a very long wait.

[BillyB]

The only way she can AOS while remaining in USA is to have a USA citizen spouse.

People can stay in America as long as the visa they entered here by says so and there are extensions and waivers out there to bypass the expiration dates.. I checked back Karl's posts and he said "She did mention that neither she nor the kids can leave the US until she gains said status, lest she not be readmitted, but she also said there's a waiver of some sort that will allow international travel while she's waiting on her green card. He also said she came here 2 years ago on a tourist visa and she is in no danger of being deported. That's believable. Our government rarely deports illegals, they definitely won't be wasting money deporting people that are family to US citizens and are pumping money into the system.


If by for some reason her visa is expired and/or extensions denied and living here illegally, the site below recommends people to stay in America while waiting for AOS. Visa expired or not, our government will eventually grant her the right to legally live in America.


http://www.alllaw.com/articles/nolo/us-immigration/visa-expires-leave-wait-for-green-card.html


"What If You Stay in the United States Illegally?

To further add to the confusion, there are a few categories of people who, if they manage to stay in the U.S. illegally without getting caught, can still apply for adjustment of status here. Many people have done this while either waiting to finish preparing their Adjustment of Status application or while waiting for a visa to become available to them (otherwise known as waiting for your Priority Date -- the date on which your visa petition was first filed -- to become current).

People who can apply to adjust status even after living in the U.S. without valid visa status include some who qualify under an old law called Section 245(i), as well as immediate relatives of U.S. citizens who entered the U.S. legally. In fact, if such people have already stayed in the U.S. unlawfully for several months, they're better off trying to stay around and adjust status rather than leaving the U.S. for consular processing, because it's only during consular processing that an immigrant can be penalized for an overstay by being prevented from returning to the U.S. for a period of years."

[Lily]

Back to Karl's initial question on whether he would be okay if he marries her.

We know that this lady is probably into Karl from the fact that she moved closer to his place. We know that she wants to become his wife.

On another note, would she still be with Karl if he says that he will not marry her on whatever reason? He could work out explanations like possible issues of inheritance, previous bad experience, etc. Would she be willing to stay with Karl without becoming his wedded wife, or would she leave him in a hope to find someone who would be willing to marry her?

[BillyB]

Since I last posted in this thread, I talked to my wife and another FSU woman who is currently trying to bring her family to America. They both agreed that it's fastest to get their family a tourist visa and keep them in America to AOS than to send them back home and do it the normal way such as them getting citizenship and sponsoring them. The FSU woman said most people in the local FSU community know this. If my MIL want to live in America someday, if it's faster and cheaper to do it by way of tourist visa, I'd consider the method.

Would she be willing to stay with Karl without becoming his wedded wife, or would she leave him in a hope to find someone who would be willing to marry her?

Most FSU ladies I've dated locally said they would like to find a man to marry. They didn't need me to stay in America. I assume they don't want to be in a friends with benefits or short term relationship or they simply believe in marriage as the right thing to do if a man and woman is to live together forever. A man asking a woman to marry may signal he's willing to make the ultimate commitment for life which may not be the case when a man asks a woman to simply to live with him. Edited to add that lady with a child doesn't want to give her child a bad example of living with a man before marriage.