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Author Topic: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?  (Read 450997 times)

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Offline Gator

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #950 on: April 23, 2014, 06:59:10 AM »
missAmeno,

I am sad to report that Google Maps in its version for Russia now shows Crimea as part of Russia.  The US version does not. 

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #951 on: April 23, 2014, 07:19:35 AM »
"The ethnic composition of the population there [southeast Ukraine] is approximately 50-50. I have already mentioned that the final decision to return Crimea to the Russian Federation was only based on the results of the referendum. When I saw these results, and saw for myself that almost all residents voted for joining Russia, I repeat, we had no other choice and there could have been no other decision."



"The essential issue is how to ensure the legitimate rights and interests of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in the southeast of Ukraine. I would like to remind you that what was called Novorossiya (New Russia) back in the tsarist days – Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa – were not part of Ukraine back then. These territories were given to Ukraine in the 1920s by the Soviet government. Why? Who knows. They were won by Potyomkin and Catherine the Great in a series of well-known wars. The centre of that territory was Novorossiysk, so the region is called Novorossiya. Russia lost these territories for various reasons, but the people remained."

Putin is a liar yet, I am sure none of the callers referenced that one little eventuality?

Offline Gator

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #952 on: April 23, 2014, 07:42:25 AM »
Putin is a liar yet, I am sure none of the callers referenced that one little eventuality?

In the conference Putin summarized the Crimea accession. 

"The most obvious risk was that the Russian speaking population was threatened and that the threats were absolutely specific and tangible. This is what made Crimean residents, the people who live there, think about their future and ask Russia for help. This is what guided our decision….. Russia had never intended to annex any territories, or planned any military operations there, never."

"Our task was not to conduct a full-fledged military operation there, but it was to ensure people’s safety and security and a comfortable environment to express their will. We did that. But it would not have been possible without the Crimeans’ own strong resolution."

He acknowledged that the "little green men" were Russian. 

"I did not hide the fact that our goal was to ensure proper conditions for the people of Crimea to be able to freely express their will. And so we had to take the necessary measures in order to prevent the situation in Crimea unfolding the way it is now unfolding in southeastern Ukraine. We didn’t want any tanks, any nationalist combat units or people with extreme views armed with automatic weapons. Of course, the Russian servicemen did back the Crimean self-defence forces. They acted in a civil but a decisive and professional manner, as I’ve already said."

"It was impossible to hold an open, honest, and dignified referendum and help people express their opinion in any other way. Still, bear in mind that there were more than 20,000 well-armed soldiers stationed in Crimea.  In addition, there were 38 S-300 missile launchers, weapons depots and rounds of ammunition. It was imperative to prevent even the possibility of someone using these weapons against civilians."


FP, you may want to look at the lengthy transcript of the conference.  One is available from the Washington Post, and it leads with a clip showing the American turncoat Edward Snowden asking him a question, and then pointing out that Putin lied with his answer to Snowden. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/transcript-vladimir-putins-april-17-qanda/2014/04/17/ff77b4a2-c635-11e3-8b9a-8e0977a24aeb_story.html

Offline Gator

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #953 on: April 23, 2014, 07:43:36 AM »

Yup.  If he's not there to act as President, it's not surprising that the Rada decided that they needed someone in charge.  Again, to repeat what I wrote earlier, there doesn't even seem to be the need for a vote in such a case.  The fact that the Rada DID bother to vote (and had no dissenters) is significant to me - it shows that everyone there had had enough of the mess that they were in.



Putin gave a different version in the 4-hour conference I referenced above.     

"I’d like to go back a little to review recent events in Ukraine. As you know, President Yanukovych refused to sign the Association Agreement with the EU. No, he did not refuse to sign it, but said that he could not sign it on the EU conditions, because it would dramatically worsen the socioeconomic situation in Ukraine and affect Ukrainians. Yanukovych said that he needed more time to analyse the document and to discuss it together with Europeans. This provoked public unrest that eventually culminated in an unconstitutional coup, an armed seizure of power."

One person asked Putin, “.... while the President of Ukraine fled his country. Would you fight to the bitter end for your country’s independence?” 

Putin:   "First, I don’t agree that Yanukovych fled. He had to leave, but he did not flee from Kiev; he was on a regional trip while the presidential administration and government buildings were taken over in Kiev in breach of a signed agreement.
When Yanukovych signed the agreement on February 21, which was guaranteed by three European foreign ministers from Poland, France and Germany, he believed that this agreement would be honoured. Under it, Yanukovych pledged not to use the army or other armed force against protesters and to pull the Interior Ministry units, including the Berkut, out of Kiev, while the opposition was to withdraw from the occupied administrative buildings, dismantle the barricades and disarm its fighters. Yanukovych agreed to hold early parliamentary elections, to return to the 2004 constitution and to hold presidential elections in December 2014. Had they wanted it, he would have agreed to hold presidential elections in a month or a month and a half, because he was ready to agree to anything. But as soon as he left Kiev and pulled the Interior Ministry units out of the city, the opposition renewed its attacks, seizing the presidential administration building, among other government buildings and accomplishing a coup d’état in the full and classical meaning of the word."


Another asked, "Has he always been such a wimp and a turncoat?"

Putin:  "You know, there is a Russian saying: “Heavy lies the crown.” The burden of responsibility on the shoulders of a head of state, whether large or small, is great. In critical moments, one relies on his or her own personal experience and moral values.

As for Mr Yanukovych, he fulfilled his duty in the way he considered possible and appropriate.  Certainly, I spoke with him many times during the crisis and after he arrived in the Russian Federation. We talked about the possibility of using force, among other things. There can be different attitudes to this, but the essence of his answer was that he thought of using force many times but he said that he did not have the heart to sign the order to use force against his citizens."

Warms your heart knowing Yanukovych cared so much for his people.  BTW, Putin seems to have slipped when he referred to him as Mr. Yanukovych, rather than President Yanukovych.

In that conference Putin did say that while Russia is not communicating with the interim President of Ukraine, the "ministers" of Ukraine remain unchanged and there is dialogue between them and Russian counterparts.   

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #954 on: April 23, 2014, 08:25:34 AM »
BTW, Putin seems to have slipped when he referred to him as Mr. Yanukovych, rather than President Yanukovych.



Good catch and maybe not a slip. Putin thinks his strategy in east Ukraine is working which means the option of reinstalling Yanukovych as Ukraine's president by using military force is off the table for now.

Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #955 on: April 23, 2014, 09:28:53 AM »

Since Ukraine resumed it's recent crackdown on militants, Russia has now issued an official warning if their interests in Ukraine are attacked, they will have the legal right to do the same thing they did in Georgia, which of course translates to an invasion. If one has friends and family in east Ukraine, tell them to brace themselves. If Ukraine is successful in pushing back the Russian backed militants, I believe Russia will find an excuse to send their army into Ukraine to protect their interests.


http://news.yahoo.com/biden-pledges-support-ukraines-pro-western-leaders-094545214.html
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Chelseaboy

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #956 on: April 23, 2014, 09:58:18 AM »
RAF  Typhoon scrambled today after two Russian planes strayed close to UK airspace off North-east Scotland today.

If the Russians start threatening us..they'll regret it...the Brits know how to fight a war.

« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 10:01:49 AM by Chelseaboy »
Just saying it like it is.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #957 on: April 23, 2014, 10:46:09 AM »
It's not just MY interpretation - try asking a constitutional lawyer how they would interpret it.  As far as I'm aware, there is not one constitutional democracy in the world that allows a President to act without the authority of his Parliament/Congress/whatever....

Nice try but no cigar...

This is what I said: ..Considering he's the duly elected president, the power was given to him to decide for the people by proxy... - on the subject of foreign negotiations.

In which, you asked: "...Where's your proof (citation please) that this is legal?  Is it written in the Ukrainian constitution (the earlier version - 2004? - not the one that Yanukovych rewrote himself) that the President may make totally unilateral decisions, without reference to the actual Government?  This is the action of a dictator, not a "duly elected" President...."

So I then gave you the 'exact' citation accordingly with a quote: "...The President represents the country and government as a whole in international affairs. The President has the authority to conduct negotiations and sign treaties on behalf of the Ukrainian government. The right to recognize foreign nations rests solely with the President..... "

Having realized this exchange, instead of acknowledging I didn't make that sh!t up you instead decided to 'fudge' around based in how YOU interpret the words explained in the citation as though somehow what YOU think versus what was inscribed in their constitution matters more. LOL.

Did anyone say 'Fudging'?

Quote
...I DID click on your link - where do you think I found the English translation?

Then why the hell even bitch about anything if you found it in the provided citation I gave you to begin with?

Quote
...Why couldn't you be bothered including both versions in your original quote?  It's important enough to be worth publishing within your post.  The only one "fudging" here is you....

LOL. Couldn't be bothered? Are you this dense? I gave you the citation and everything you asked for and challenged PLUS even more (Oath). Lack of diligence on your part is your problem, not mine kiddo.

Did anyone say fudging'?

Quote
...Had not Yanukovych already left Kyiv before this happened?  In any case, it would be naïve to expect the members of the Rada itself to provide any physical protection - surely this is the responsibility of the Police, or whoever is in charge of national security.  If Yanukovych was so sure of his popularity he would have no need of personal bodyguards....

Supposition. Hyperbole. Speculations.

Quote
..Which Article covers this?...

Here's my supposition: Protection of heads-of-states is norm in any civilized nation, regardless of the content of its constitution. Even during civil/criminal deliberation, accusations or prosecution.

Quote
...I'm well aware of what impeachment is.  See my earlier post, where I stated that, as far as I could see, it's not actually possible to impeach the President because of his immunity from prosecution...

Wrong. You obviously didn't understand what you read.

Article 111:

"The President of Ukraine may be removed from office by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by the procedure of impeachment, in the event that he or she commits state treason or other crime.

---my insert: Crimes you ask? What crimes? Read here. FWIW, the Council had allegedly accused him of heinous crimes - thus impeachment procedures should have been observed, but wasn't properly, legally, conducted in accordance to below paragraph---
 
The issue of the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is initiated by the majority of the constitutional composition of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. To conduct the investigation, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine establishes a special temporary investigatory commission whose composition includes a special Prosecutor and special investigators. The conclusions and proposals of the temporary investigatory commission are considered at a meeting of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine. For cause, the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, by no less than two-thirds of its constitutional composition, adopts a decision on the accusation of the President of Ukraine.

The decision on the removal of the President of Ukraine from office by the procedure of impeachment is adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine by no less than three-quarters of its constitutional composition, after the review of the case by the Constitutional Court of Ukraine and the receipt of its opinion on the observance of the constitutional procedure of investigation and consideration of the case of impeachment, and the receipt of the opinion of the Supreme Court of Ukraine to the effect that the acts, of which the President of Ukraine is accused, contain elements of state treason or other crime.
"

They adopted a decision but never resolved to enforcement of that decision by either not meeting the required 3/4 vote of its council composition, or the total absence of the procedural protocol as stated above.

Eventually & rather conveniently, they simply declared 'he withdrew his powers' to oust him from office - WHICH - is illegal and unconstitutional. If you still can not understand this, don't fudge, ask.

Quote
...Yup.  If he's not there to act as President, it's not surprising that the Rada decided that they needed someone in charge.  Again, to repeat what I wrote earlier, there doesn't even seem to be the need for a vote in such a case.  The fact that the Rada DID bother to vote (and had no dissenters) is significant to me - it shows that everyone there had had enough of the mess that they were in...

Wrong again.

Article 108:

"The President of Ukraine exercises his or her powers until the assumption of office by the newly elected President of Ukraine.
The powers of the President of Ukraine terminate prior to the expiration of term in cases of:

1. resignation;
2. inability to exercise his or her powers for reasons of health;
3. removal from office by the procedure of impeachment;
4. death.
"

Which one in here applied in Yanukovich's case?

Quote
You have your opinion - others have theirs.  Boethius - where are you?

No. I provided you facts, you gave me personal interpretations/opinions.

Did anyone say 'fudging'?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 01:41:17 PM by GQBlues »
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Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #958 on: April 23, 2014, 10:51:50 AM »
Since Ukraine resumed it's recent crackdown on militants, Russia has now issued an official warning if their interests in Ukraine are attacked, they will have the legal right to do the same thing they did in Georgia, which of course translates to an invasion. If one has friends and family in east Ukraine, tell them to brace themselves. If Ukraine is successful in pushing back the Russian backed militants, I believe Russia will find an excuse to send their army into Ukraine to protect their interests.


http://news.yahoo.com/biden-pledges-support-ukraines-pro-western-leaders-094545214.html


 
This guy says it ain't happening in the win-win situation in Ukraine.
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #959 on: April 23, 2014, 11:09:40 AM »
Actually no, MissA. If I actually have to rely in Ukraine's historical data, I would rely on Ukrainian's version of it. I believe Toronto's Ukrainian Genealogy Group have a great version in short form of Ukraine's historical facts.

History info provided on Toronto Ukrainian Genealogy Group website is based on translation of some historic events from detailed scholarly synthesis (ten volumes) of Ukrainian history 'History of Ukraine-Rus' written by Mykhailo Hrushevskyi. Russia never liked and accepted this version of history, they have their own. The reason is so disliked by Russians is because Hrushevskyi in his ten volume monograph showed history of Ukrainians (as 'Ukrainian State') not only to the era of Kievan Rus, but also to the preceding period.

Short version of Ukrainian history on Toronto Ukrainian Genealogy Group website is good read for those of you who want to understand better conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Read it, pay attention where in chronological order mentioned Ukraine, Russia, Kiev, Moscow, any particular regions of Ukraine and at what time who ruled them, how many times Ukrainians been fighting wars and how many of those wars have been for independence, how many times Ukraine been occupied and by whom, etc.


The current transfer of leadership had gone from a corrupt politician to a corrupt politician and the population somehow believes this is progress.

And this is where you are wrong. My observation from communication with family, friends and reading views of average Ukrainians online is that people are well aware about level of corruption and what kind of politicians they have but they clearly understand that Russia is much bigger threat right now and they are prioritizing what is most important to deal with first. 

Thanks missAmeno.  Even Putin is not claiming Ukraine is Russia.  On April 17, Putin held his annual "Direct Line with Vladimir Putin" in a 3-hour, 54-minute live conference.  Putin expressed that Crimea has long been Russian, yet did not describe southeastern Ukraine in the same manner. 

"....we must admit that the ethnic composition of Crimea differs from that of southeastern Ukraine. These territories, as I just said, were transferred to Ukraine in the mid-1920s, and in 1954, Crimea was annexed to Ukraine for some reason as well."


"The ethnic composition of the population there [southeast Ukraine] is approximately 50-50. I have already mentioned that the final decision to return Crimea to the Russian Federation was only based on the results of the referendum. When I saw these results, and saw for myself that almost all residents voted for joining Russia, I repeat, we had no other choice and there could have been no other decision."



"The essential issue is how to ensure the legitimate rights and interests of ethnic Russians and Russian speakers in the southeast of Ukraine. I would like to remind you that what was called Novorossiya (New Russia) back in the tsarist days – Kharkov, Lugansk, Donetsk, Kherson, Nikolayev and Odessa – were not part of Ukraine back then. These territories were given to Ukraine in the 1920s by the Soviet government. Why? Who knows. They were won by Potyomkin and Catherine the Great in a series of well-known wars. The centre of that territory was Novorossiysk, so the region is called Novorossiya. Russia lost these territories for various reasons, but the people remained."

The short version of Ukrainian history on Toronto Ukrainian Genealogy Group website (http://www.torugg.org/History/history_of_ukraine.html) will explain to some extend what Putin is talking about. Putin is as usual playing with words, he forgot to tell from whom Potyomkin and Catherine the Great won some of Ukrainian regions, he forgot to tell that reason Ukraine has so many Russian speakers is because Russia have been suppressing Ukrainian ethnicity, language and culture for centuries, he forgot to tell that Crimea was a gift to commemorate the 300th anniversary of the Treaty of Pereyaslav and that actual Treaty of Pereyaslav was a cause of the eventual domination of Ukraine by Russia while intention of it were no more than a pact of two equal, independent allies.

Offline GQBlues

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #960 on: April 23, 2014, 11:19:32 AM »
History info provided on Toronto Ukrainian Genealogy Group website is based on translation of some historic events from detailed scholarly synthesis (ten volumes) of Ukrainian history 'History of Ukraine-Rus' written by Mykhailo Hrushevskyi. Russia never liked and accepted this version of history, they have their own. The reason is so disliked by Russians is because Hrushevskyi in his ten volume monograph showed history of Ukrainians (as 'Ukrainian State') not only to the era of Kievan Rus, but also to the preceding period.

Short version of Ukrainian history on Toronto Ukrainian Genealogy Group website is good read for those of you who want to understand better conflict between Ukraine and Russia. Read it, pay attention where in chronological order mentioned Ukraine, Russia, Kiev, Moscow, any particular regions of Ukraine and at what time who ruled them, how many times Ukrainians been fighting wars and how many of those wars have been for independence, how many times Ukraine been occupied and by whom, etc.

I'm glad we agree on this point. Here's the website: http://www.torugg.org/History/history_of_ukraine.html#PARTONE

Quote
...And this is where you are wrong. My observation from communication with family, friends and reading views of average Ukrainians online is that people are well aware about level of corruption and what kind of politicians they have but they clearly understand that Russia is much bigger threat right now and they are prioritizing what is most important to deal with first...

I do not disagree with Russian being front and center of Ukrainians concern at this time. As they should. However, don't ever believe taking 'Russia' out of the equation somehow diminishes the ills that faces Ukraine's plight today. Russia is but just one of Ukraine's problem. 
« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 11:21:29 AM by GQBlues »
Quote from: msmob
1. Because of 'man', global warming is causing desert and arid areas to suffer long, dry spell.
2. The 2018 Camp Fire and Woolsey California wildfires are forests burning because of global warming.
3. N95 mask will choke you dead after 30 min. of use.

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #961 on: April 23, 2014, 11:32:03 AM »
Since Ukraine resumed it's recent crackdown on militants, Russia has now issued an official warning if their interests in Ukraine are attacked, they will have the legal right to do the same thing they did in Georgia, which of course translates to an invasion. If one has friends and family in east Ukraine, tell them to brace themselves. If Ukraine is successful in pushing back the Russian backed militants, I believe Russia will find an excuse to send their army into Ukraine to protect their interests.


http://news.yahoo.com/biden-pledges-support-ukraines-pro-western-leaders-094545214.html

Do not want to disclose where my brother stationed now as government issued request not to mention location of Ukrainian troops online anymore but he says they are 'watched' all the time and high alert signaled several times per night.

Offline Muzh

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #962 on: April 23, 2014, 11:40:38 AM »
More "win-win" for Ukraine.
 

 Sergei Lavrov's U-Turn On Invasion
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline BillyB

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #963 on: April 23, 2014, 12:47:05 PM »
Do not want to disclose where my brother stationed now as government issued request not to mention location of Ukrainian troops online anymore but he says they are 'watched' all the time and high alert signaled several times per night.


Do you have contact with your brother or are you getting information from other relatives? Do you know if he is equipped with a good weapon, body armor and night vision goggles? If Russia attacks, they would probably start the attack when it's dark outside and it's why Ukrainian troops are on high alert at that time. Russian troops most likely are equipped with night vision goggles which gives them a big advantage. It's hard for Ukrainian soldiers to aim a weapon if they can't see the target.


While we have our disputes on the forum over what's right and wrong, we must not forget real people's lives are at stake. I hope the crisis ends peacefully and your brother will be fine. Russia's tough talk and determination to get what it wants leads us believe a peaceful solution is not going to happen. The truce before Easter didn't last long. Russia didn't even make an attempt to collect the weapons they issued to pro Russian Ukrainians and recall their special forces that's currently working in Ukraine which was part of the agreement.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline missAmeno

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #964 on: April 23, 2014, 01:52:13 PM »

Do you have contact with your brother or are you getting information from other relatives? Do you know if he is equipped with a good weapon, body armor and night vision goggles? If Russia attacks, they would probably start the attack when it's dark outside and it's why Ukrainian troops are on high alert at that time. Russian troops most likely are equipped with night vision goggles which gives them a big advantage. It's hard for Ukrainian soldiers to aim a weapon if they can't see the target.

He tries to call my parents once a day from mobile, already it was not always possible (mobile switched on only to make a call). He is to extend vague in  explaining situation as he uses mobile to call. On few occasions I was on phone with mum on one line at the same time as he was on another phone line so we were able to hear each other (you know habit of FSUW to have more than one mobile). Regarding equipment all I know is that prior deployment his unit for few weeks from early morning till late night been grenade launcher training and to him was issued one as well as uniform/equipment (again what exactly was included in equipment I never had a chance to ask, mum asks more questions along the lines if he had chance to sleep and/or eat today). My understanding high alerts are going because of attempts not because of possibilities, situation is much more serious.

Offline justme100

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #965 on: April 23, 2014, 01:55:04 PM »
Justme100,


Where have you been? Still reading here I hope. How are things going on in Crimea? Wayne, who has  a wife in Crimea, says in other threads that things aren't going so well over there. What's your opinion? Is Russia taking good care of you? How's inflation? Has prices on food and other necessities stayed the same or gone up? Are gas, water, and electricity in abundance or some people are faced with shortages?
Hello,Billy.I'm reading from time to time.
I haven't read Wayne's thread so I am not aware what problems he faces. Can describe only my personal perspective.
Things are going ok in Crimea - it's hot and beautiful spring. As to the results of our returning to Russia- well, there are 2 aspects here - emotional and economical. As to the first  - people are glad we managed to do it. As to economical situation, it's worse. Prices has gone up for the majority of food and other everyday necessities - about 30-50%. Petrol- it was very expensive, but now as the Ukrainian resources here finished and we start to use Russian petrol prices gradually lower. Public transport fares - the same.
Salaries: all the workers who get their salaries from the budget will get more.Doctors, teachers, state workers and so on. The same with pensioners. Quite another situation for businesses. They are closing in their majority. Quite a lot of people are now workless.
The greatest problem are banks.The head of the biggest Ukraininan bank Kolomoyskiy has stolen millions of Crimean's people deposits. People just lost their money.also all the operations are blocked and the ATMs are not working, so all the payments can be done only in cash now, which is a great discomfort for sure. Long, extremely long queues everywhere...


We have no shortages with gas or electricity, however there is a problem with water for irrigation. Ukraine cutoff the water stream for us, so we have no water for fields irrigation for now. Rice fields died already. Local authorities started drilling works for water, but it will take some time, meanwhile it's hot here now and no rain at all, so I beleive there will be problems with vegetables crops too. Still there is enough water for daily use, so people don't have any shortage with water.


Former Ukrainian Navy headquarters officers in it's majority became Russian Navy. Among negatives - an awfull mess with papers and new laws...what to do, how to do - these are big questions there now. Among positives - our officers and other staff have to take sports exams in order to have good salary)It was funny to observe yestreday our depatment chief running on the stadium with his beer belly trembling))


For sure all the positive emotions of people here are blackened by the events in the West of Ukraine( It hurts to see what happens there. We managed to escape withoud any bloodshed, unfortunately it's not the case with them. There are thousands of Crimeans in Donetsk region now in order to help everything happen.
Sevastopol mothers organisation is now making arrangements in order to take children from those regions into our homes for the time till the situation improves and let their parents fight without fear for their childern's life.

Offline SANDRO43

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #966 on: April 23, 2014, 02:10:39 PM »
My observation from communication with family, friends and reading views of average Ukrainians online is that people are well aware about level of corruption and what kind of politicians they have but they clearly understand that Russia is much bigger threat right now and they are prioritizing what is most important to deal with first
Sounds reasonable: deal with the worst evil first - hopefully, the lesser evil later ::)? Good luck.
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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #967 on: April 23, 2014, 02:33:45 PM »
justme100,

Thank you for telling us the truth about the situation.  The troubles you are experiencing hopefully are temporary as Crimea makes the transition to a new government.  It is horrible that the Kolomoyskiy Bank confiscated everyone's deposits.  That should sort itself out,  yet is no comfort to those without cash.

I read Putin's comments about his plans to make large investments in shipbuilding, agriculture (output has declined 60% since 1990), and holiday infrastructure.  Putin said none of the hotels meet Russian standards, and when the hotels were asked "...how former vacationers could have put up with this sort of quality, they heard this odd – and shameful – answer: 'It’s OK, we mostly had miners as guests here; it made no difference to them; they’d down half a glass of vodka and go to the beach.' "

It will take time to make these investments and realize economic development.


Towards the end of your post are these serious and troubling words, words that sound like the beginning of a civil war:  "There are thousands of Crimeans in Donetsk region now in order to help everything happen. " 

Hopefully bloodshed can be avoided with diplomacy, yet Putin's diplomacy seems very harsh.   

« Last Edit: April 23, 2014, 02:35:28 PM by Gator »

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #968 on: April 23, 2014, 02:43:31 PM »

I read Putin's comments about his plans to make large investments in shipbuilding, agriculture (output has declined 60% since 1990), and holiday infrastructure.  Putin said none of the hotels meet Russian standards, and when the hotels were asked "...how former vacationers could have put up with this sort of quality, they heard this odd – and shameful – answer: 'It’s OK, we mostly had miners as guests here; it made no difference to them; they’d down half a glass of vodka and go to the beach.' "

It will take time to make these investments and realize economic development.

state hotels and in general state tourist infrastructure is in awful condition here. And the same shameful attitude as mentioned above is being applied to all tourists. Until locals get rid of it and understand that to have beautiful nature is not enough to attract normal tourists the tourist buisiness won't flourish here.
As to shipbuilding-yes, some factories already got their first orders.As to Sevastopol they say there will be fleet here for sure and also they plan to place submarines here. I do hope they will make our city closed as it was before.

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #969 on: April 23, 2014, 02:44:50 PM »
Sounds reasonable: deal with the worst evil first - hopefully, the lesser evil later ::)? Good luck.

It sounds like your family and friends have it figured out pretty well.  As far as the former corrupt government of Ukraine, we all need to wait and see how the newly elected government does once in office.

I personally know that since Maiden, the judiciary and lower level government employees have almost completely stopped the graft that was present in every day life previously.  Perhaps the messages got filtered down that the new government is serious about graft and corruption.

The interim government has only been in place a very short time.  I think we should give them and the newly elected government some time to clean things up before we are too critical or keep blaming the past as though it will not change.  Time will tell.

Yes, Russia is the enemy of Ukraine and it needs to be dealt with first.
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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #970 on: April 23, 2014, 02:50:59 PM »

The interim government has only been in place a very short time.  I think we should give them and the newly elected government some time to clean things up before we are too critical or keep blaming the past as though it will not change.  Time will tell.



You are correct; there is hope that this time it will be different.  The track record for the past 20 years says change will be difficult.  Lifestyles have been based on corruption, and to remove it will take more than Elliot Ness. 

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #971 on: April 23, 2014, 02:54:37 PM »
state hotels and in general state tourist infrastructure is in awful condition here. And the same shameful attitude as mentioned above is being applied to all tourists. Until locals get rid of it and understand that to have beautiful nature is not enough to attract normal tourists the tourist buisiness won't flourish here.
As to shipbuilding-yes, some factories already got their first orders.As to Sevastopol they say there will be fleet here for sure and also they plan to place submarines here. I do hope they will make our city closed as it was before.

Typical Soviet mentality!  Hopefully, Crimea will be back in the hands of Ukraine before Russia makes such large investments.  Otherwise they will be nationalized just like what Russia has done to Ukraine assets in Crimea.

Either you are terribly ignorant or are a professional propagandist for the Kremlin.
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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #972 on: April 23, 2014, 03:06:01 PM »


I read Putin's comments about his plans to make large investments in shipbuilding, agriculture (output has declined 60% since 1990), and holiday infrastructure.  Putin said none of the hotels meet Russian standards, and when the hotels were asked "...how former vacationers could have put up with this sort of quality, they heard this odd – and shameful – answer: 'It’s OK, we mostly had miners as guests here; it made no difference to them; they’d down half a glass of vodka and go to the beach.' "

 
I think I read yesterday or the day before that Putin would like to make Crimea a gambling zone, with Casinos.


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #973 on: April 23, 2014, 03:22:03 PM »
My understanding high alerts are going because of attempts not because of possibilities, situation is much more serious.



I was under the assumption that some Ukrainian troops are busy chasing militants and the others are doing nothing but sitting and waiting in case of invasion. It seems all Ukrainian troops are busy. I suspect attempts to attack your brother's military unit are more to test their combat readiness than to take them over. I'm sure Russian generals are hard at work trying to learn Ukrainian troop locations, what equipment their using, size of units and their combat readiness to gain more advantages. When going into battle, a Russian general would be foolish to send a light infantry unit against a heavily armored Ukrainian tank battalion.


The greatest problem are banks.The head of the biggest Ukraininan bank Kolomoyskiy has stolen millions of Crimean's people deposits. People just lost their money.



Thanks for the update Justme100. It would be wise for all Ukrainians to take their money out banks right now. Anytime there is conflict and regime change, there's a big chance people will lose money kept in banks. My mother in law lost all the money she had in a Libyan bank after Libya's civil war.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

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Re: What would a U.S.-Russia war look like?
« Reply #974 on: April 23, 2014, 03:32:01 PM »

 There are thousands of Crimeans in Donetsk region now in order to help everything happen.


Thanks for the update justme100. It's great to get the real goods from someone on the ground there. :)

The above words jumped off the page for me too (as with Gator).

Can you please explain to us what you meant exactly?
Which Crimeans are in Donetsk (Ukrainian or Russian descent)?
What do you mean by "help everything happen"?



 

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