Experiences with American women -- a question from jen

[BC]

Developed over years, my description of a feminist -  a woman who is:

Highly opinionated.
Stands firm ground regarding her values.
Not afraid to contradict or confront.
Proactive and not subservient.
Demands an equal voice and vote in all affairs.
Not afraid to do whatever is necessary to reach her goals.
Promotes sharing of duties and rewards.

OMG!!!! my RW is a feminist!!!!!

The only real difference is that you won't catch her walking down the street with a billboard or exposing our private life as an example of conquest or failure.  All qualities listed above are kept well within the confines of our home.

[IAmZon]

Of course, in America there is role confusion - but that is as much the man's responsibility to define and to cope with as the women.  Of course, in America there is hyper-consumerism that makes the human being a constant target for advertising commercials and it does eat the soul (of men and women equally).  Of course, in America we are all the products of learned helplessness and that has created a weaker inner self than nature intended.

I ACCIDENTALLY met a girl from the FSU.  She and her culture shocked me ... rocked me ... in a very awakening way.

Last Winter, I was in a small kitchen with three RW - students in New York.  We were all getting drunk on plum vodka that one of the girls had just brought back from home.  We needed to open a can.  There was no can opener. 

One of the girls, said let Tim do it ... she gave me a sharp and used  and large knife, and the can.  She was serious, and I was thoughtful.  Hmmmmm.  Hummmm.  I remembered hearing about the most frequent ER room visits were caused because of knifes and bagels ... hmmmmm, hmmmmmm.  Then, one of the girls said, "what do you expect he is American."  she ripped the knife and can out of my hands - 10 seconds later then can was opened - without a drop of blood. 

One of the other girls said - and really meant it - "It is OK you were raised in the US, you don't know any better." 

We went to bed around 3:00. At 5:00 the shower was on ... and my three temporary roommates all got a shower without a single complaint.  Off to their 1st job.  Then, to night school.  A 16 hour day! And they were all genuinely happy with the opportunity.

Inner strength and an unspoiled approach to life is the attraction for me.

========

I would add that I meet many attractive AW - smart, educated, good jobs, pleasing to be with.  But after a young age, there are scars on us all ... and I have not met one AW that I was attracted to, that was available, that could carry that baggage of her prior life well enough to clearly begin another. 

I am still open to AW.  But I just don't take them as serious as I did several years ago.

PS. Now, I can open up a can with a knife - drunk:)

[Wayne B]

riv, glad to see that you are progressing in this endever.....Always...remember...that if you meet and marry a woman from FSU...that at any time...any day....she can open you....wheather good or bad

[SANDRO43]

There was obviously enough attention to enact the War Brides Act in 1945.

... and to produce a movie on the subject in 1949, starring Cary Grant and Ann Sheridan . Plot:

Captain Henri Rochard of the French army, and Lieutenant Catherine Gates, of the American, are assigned a mission together to stop a German high-level scientist in postwar Germany. They start out thinking they hate each other, but end up falling in love. They encounter various bureaucratic hassles trying to get married. When Catherine's army unit gets recalled back to the USA, the only way they have to stay together is by invoking a law allowing the spouse of American army personnel to enter the country -- the War Bride's act.

[Muj]

Jen,

rivardco has a good point on the role confusion and as you see most men marry FSUW for the same reasons any couples marry, for many reasons.  Why go so far?  Well have you never traveled?  Or are you someone uninterested beyond the corners of your home?   In this internet age many men may write American women and women internationally.   Many men find the FSU women open and know themselves and avoiding the games.  This is probably due to the fact that they have little or no role confusion.  Many of the men then find one women special beyond all others .
Jen what was your impression prior to this thread?  Has it changed?  What is the purpose of the research? Publication? Where?

[TigerPaws]

Jen,

So far a very interesting topic.

 As for myself, you have already read a little so if I may I would like to expand on my reasons for looking for a Russian lady.

 If you look back to the begining of the womens movement in America several things become apparent, the popular media was interested in portraying women in a strong light. Women were told they could have it all, a career, excellent relationship, husband, children and family. Well it was all a lie! Still the popular media showed women that they could have it all, even our schools stopped got into the act by cutting classes such as home economics in favor of womens rights studies, it all became about the career and going it on your own for women.

 Others have already written that many American women are trying to act and be like men, I will agree with this assessment.

 Most American women have come to the belief that men will take them as they are, fat, ugly, demanding, unappreciative bitche$. Well some men have woken up and simply are not going to take the status quo anymore, so they look towards the FSU and hopefully better hunting grounds.

 Our media (American) has created the modern American woman and that creation has become ugly on both the outside and the inside, most American women no longer feel the need to look like or even act a woman. A traditional family is nothing more than an inconvenience, children are to be put into day care as soon as possible, the husband is someone to handle the "honey do list" and the American woman's god is money. You have heard it is the me, me, me with these women, well I will agree, many (most) want the big, no huge engagement diamond ring, why? Because it is all about showing off to other women, they want the huge suburban home, SUV and fancy car, why? To show off because there is nothing inside anymore.

 American women have lost what it means to be a woman and some men have figured that out so they are looking to other countries where the traits which have been lost are still around. Unfortunately much of the FSU is changing very quickly and becoming just like America and Europe which will be a loss in so many ways.

TigerPaws

     

[KenC]

Muj,
Why don't you read this thread and the other one started by Jen before you ask such stupid questions?
KenC

[IAmZon]

Tiger Paws got on a little rant there with some generalizations that may inflame the "other side".  That is one of the products of generalizations. 

I would like to more directly inflame:) - or just pose a question or observation.

I was with some friends at a bar last Saturday night ... They were the band (lawyers and real estate agents by day, party animals on the weekends)  We are all in our young 40s.  Not in bad shape ... still surf, work out, martial arts ... ohh, and one guy is the coach potato - but he is a nude photographer, so he gets more than everyone else put together - much more.

ANYWAY ...  Ladies - divorced or single -  in their late 30s and early 40s!!!!  Watch out!!!  There are just like 21 guys:)  One track mind ... trying to get laid.  Sort of pathetic.

---------------------

I used to be worried about telling guys I had a Russian girl friend ...  I would hear their wives snarl and say "she is only after a green card."  Then, of course, there is the perception that only desperate American men go to Russia to find desperate women.  I have finally found a truth ( at least for me).  I don't need to go anywhere to find an attractive and young women - they are all over the place.  I am just open to looking elsewhere too.

In the end, good people (the kind that can believe a promise and keep a secrete ... the kind that think forever is longer than 3 or 4 years) are more rare than we would like to admit.

[TigerPaws]

rivardco,

I have no intention of inflaming anyone, I simply posted some of my observations, I am sure there is some truth in most points of view. But unlike some on this board I and others I know specifically looked to the FSU for a lady. I and others were and are looking for what they believe has been lost in American society and by American women in general. The reasons for looking to the FSU are as varied as the people who went looking but some common ground can be found in those men who specifically looked for a lady outside of American and in the FSU in particular.

 Many of those reasons have already been posted here today and hopefully more will be posted about this in the coming days.

 TigerPaws

[TigerPaws]

Well, for the record, I declared myself a feminist because I do identify that way and I think it is important to be honest here...but for many of us, this does not mean being any less committed to family and children...though I have a career, I have one that allows me to spend a great deal of time with my small child, which is a top priority for me.  The feminists I know do not believe that women should prioritize career over childbearing; only that they should be able to make whichever choice they prefer, and more generally, that it is worth examining, discussing, and debating these issues.

Just my two cents...looking forward to hearing more responses.

jen,

 You have hit upon a quagmire in the American feminist movement and agenda. That is the desire for choice, while I believe choice is good those same choices come with a price and all to often that price is not known until it is to late.

As an example many women are putting off marriage and having children until they are well into their late 30's and 40's to further their career only to find they are alone with little to no chance of every finding that magical prince charming. While these same women made that choice it was the feminist agenda and movement that was telling them they could have it all when in fact very few ever have that option.

Many women do marry and have a child only to find that their careers suffer if they do not return to work quickly, often only weeks after giving birth they shuffle their new born to some form of day care or a nanny and only see their child a few hours a day. Eventually the desire for a career,to get ahead and the demands of the family leaves little time for an actual relationship and the couple drifts apart until the eventual divorce. Then the women wonder what happened but it was the choices they made based on what they have been learning in school and the various media's that they need not worry they can have it all.

Such has been the message of the feminist agenda.

TigerPaws

   

[Jazzyclassy]

I think personally that feminism it is a horrible useless phenomenon

My reasons for that:

women raise their kids giving them only their point  of view , child is protected from father's opinion and can see world only through his mother's sick understanding of how it should be for example

so a child if it is a girl , grows up and becomes such stuck up woman like her feminist mother, so she no longer requires a man to create a family , she can go to bank of sperm for example and give birth to a child on her own

All those things lead to mass catastrophe where men are no longer needed, well I am exaggerating a bit , but if feminism progresses then we can face such situation in the future

We have in Russia this rather famous woman Maria Arbatova is her name , she  is absolutely crazy about feminism idea, she was married had 2 sons then divorced her hubby then started to co-host some Russian show called Ya sama ( On my own) and was giving a pile of sh--ty advices to the women who came to those shows seeking for an advice why a man left her for example it was back in 1996-97 I think or something like that , people were in shock of this Maria Arbatova , she was single for some time then finally when she reached her retired age she found some Indian guy and started propagating Indian spiritual movement, wrote a book and is doing just useless things in this society , so where is her feminism then? None really accepted her as somebody serious , people thought her to be clown earning money on telly being a feminist star, but so what? did she achieve anything? well obviously money , but I doubt that shegot happiness, she did not understand that , women 's happiness is in her family -husband and children.

All women need men , the same as all men need women , there are some exclusive types of people who are young and lovely all alone, but that is a rare cases , they probably reached the point when they realised they are ready to be alone  and who are devoting their time to different researches, or who are monks in Tibet and so on and are preparing their soul to rest in peace. But the majority of women and men they need each other, I hope people will understand this sometimes

and no need to call it primitive , if that's primitive for you do not read it , we always have choices as someone  else told here:P  Plus if someone here except Jen is feminist no need to call normal woman -primitive ok!:P

[slant]

I've lurked around here for a few days and this thread persuaded me to interject my perspective...

I am a former Marine and have been to a few European countries (Eastern European at that) and in my brief time in these countries I have hit it off a lot better with the few foreign women that I have spent time with, than the many American Women I have... Why is that? Is it because I didn't spend enough time with the foreign women for either of us to screw it up? I don't know, but I am seriously thinking about finding out... Which is why I looked for a site like this...

There are definitely differences in cultures around the world and while I love America and what it stands for, I'm not so sure that I love our celebrity obsessed, immediate gratification and just down right spoiled culture and what that does to people, especially potential mates...

[ScottinCrimea]

I was married to a couple of AW, one for over 18 years.  When I got back into the dating scene I dated a LOT of AW but none had what I was looking for.  At that time I was in my late 30's. Here is what I found.  There were the younger ones who had never been married.  They were looking for either the hot body stud, the rich guy who could give them things to show off to their friends or they were too involved in preparing for a career with no desire for a family until they were well established in their career  Then there were the previously married ones with young children.  They were looking for a provider for them and their kids.  It was more important to them that you had a good job and a nice house than that you were compatible as a couple.  Their priority was their children and a husband was looked upon as a work horse and only secondary in their affection.  The older women already had established themselves in their career and looked on a husband as the last piece of their happiness puzzle.  Of course, the career always took precedence over the husband.
     You will note that in every case, the goal for them was a very selfish one.  In general, AW are very egocentric.  The world revolves around them and the only purpose of a husband is to meet their needs.  There is really no thought for what the husband's needs and wants are, and unfortunately, the feminist movement preaches that the wants and needs of the woman supercede the wants and needs of the man.  Men are made to feel guilty for having wants and needs.
     I began to expand my dating pool through the internet.  I was in contact with women all over the world.  The attitudes and culture of women from the FSU really struck a nerve and I began to see that their attitude of marriage was more what I saw as the ideal.  They were very comfortable in their role as a woman, recognizing that it was distinct but equal.  They don't feel that they have to be like men to be equal with men.  They were not afraid to dress like a woman, talk like a woman and act like a woman.
     So what do I have now?  A wife who is proud to be a woman and dress like one, who is happy to accept her role as a wife and expects me to assume my role as a husband.  She doesn't demand control but is willing to take over if I do not assume this role.  She has clear views of what the role of men and women are in society.
     She can clean the house, sew clothes and cook gourmet meals, but can also lay brick and tile with the best of them.  She is strong, independent, educated and talented, but wise enough to know when to defer to her husband and when to take over.
     The bottom line?  AW have been taught to be selfish, FSUW have been taught to be selfless.

[TigerPaws]

The bottom line?  AW have been taught to be selfish, FSUW have been taught to be selfless.

Well said. 

TigerPaws

[Shadow]

jen,

As you declare yourself feminist, I would like to know what your definition of a feminist is.
If you feel that a feminist is a woman who works hard for sustaining her family, with or without a husband contributing, you will find a lot of feminists in Russia.

The question that you hear often is what is 'wrong' with local women. Just like most others I think there is nothing wrong with the local women in my country. In dating and marriage I guess if there were relliable statistics present they would not differ a lot between local and international marriages.

So why a Russian ? In my case, I was looking to repeat what I considered one of the most perfect marriages I saw, that of my parents. I am not talking about internation, but about the relations between two people who decided to be together for life, and complemented each other in every way. It is not easy to find someone like that, especially if interests do not include bars and discos. With my interest in computers and the world, internet was a natural place to look. And while searching world-wide, I managed to find my perfect match in Russia.
We are stil amazed how both of our families are alike, even if they lived in very different circumstances and parts of the world.

In the end I just wonder what you think is wrong (if anything) with people looking for a partner international instead of local.

[jen]

Hi everyone,

I came back to a lot of responses to read this morning -- thanks, everyone. It's very interesting to see the range of answers (some agree with the idea that AW's problems are what led them to look elsewhere, others were more pulled to the FSU by certain things that attracted them, or were/are just open to a person from any country).

A few of you mentioned problems of U.S. society that affect women but might be more general problems (affecting some men too):  depression, materialism, consumerism.  Would anyone care to elaborate on those ideas?

p.s. Just read the last post from Shadow -- I don't think that looking internationally for a partner is wrong. Re: the definition of feminism, I think this is an important question, but I don't have an easy answer and I am interested in hearing what all of you think...actually, we had some discussion of this question above. I entirely agree with what you said about Russian women.

[Wayne B]

Scott, good post.....can your wife help Anna and I re-tile our  kitchen floor

[Shadow]

A few of you mentioned problems of U.S. society that affect women but might be more general problems (affecting some men too):  depression, materialism, consumerism.  Would anyone care to elaborate on those ideas?

Many of these problems are created rather than reality.
If you think you have a depression, stand straight in front of a mirror, smile and say 'I am feeling dperessed'. Can you do that without feeling ridiculous ? If you can not, there is no depresion.
Materialism and consumerism are often used as excuses for the real issue. And that is caring. If you have children, and you can not give them enough time, you buy toys to keep them busy while you can 'work on yourself'. What do children learn from this ? Objects can replace care. What do parents miss ? Children can play with a string and a piece of wood, even if their closet is filled with the latest toys. Human needs are simple. Enough food and some attention that makes you feel good is all you need. The rest is what we have created.
And for those who think that I am living in a tent, we just spent a heap of money upgrading our computers. 

[Sohkay]

...A few of you mentioned problems of U.S. society that affect women but might be more general problems (affecting some men too):   depression, materialism, consumerism.  Would anyone care to elaborate on those ideas?...

jen,

Of course these issues also affect men. But we were responding to a question about dissatisfactions with American women. And then you respond as if people are being prejudiced against women "...(affecting some men too)..." I'm sensing from you a very strong and ingrained prejudice against men, which if it is the case, you have no business being in this forum.

My intuition is screaming at me right now to back out if this thread. I'm getting really concerned that again, an "academic" study on this issue of foreign relationships will again, as they have in the past, give short shrift to the sincere and good men, the sincere and good husbands and the sincere and good fathers who are involved in cross cultural relationships.

I would be more than happy to be wrong about this, but right now my "male intuition" is telling me to back off.

[MaxxumUSA]

OK Jen,

I will play ball with ya.  I did not read other responses before posting on purpose so that I could give you an answer without any bias from previous posters in this thread.

Here goes:

--was a dissatisfaction with American women (or women in your home country, if you are not based in US) the key thing that motivated you to begin searching abroad?

Absolutely, 100% yes to this answer.

--if so, how would you describe that dissatisfaction?  (From conversations with individuals as well as reading boards like this one, I have seen a number of common responses:  unattractiveness, lack of family orientation, self-centeredness, etc.) What is the central problem as you see it?

First and foremost let's talk about the attraction factor.  In USA - in my area - I would say 60% of the women have let their weight go too far.  Basically - they are either overweight or obese.  Out of the other 40% that are of "acceptable" proportions - I believe only a small percent of those women honestly care about their body.  The others are just lucky with "thin" metabolism.  I mention the weight factor because of how this affects the 40% that are not overweight.

I know some men prefer a woman with some meat - but I have never been attracted to these cows.

So...  with 60% of women out of my focus - the other 40% is all that is left.  Out of those, 1/2 (20%) are usually married or in a relationship.  This leaves me 1 out of every five women that is even an option, or 20%.  The field narrows.

Out of the remaining 20% that are not fat, and are also available, there also needs to be attraction on my part.  Let's be generous and say that I am attracted to 30% of these women.  The field narrows to 6% of women that I am attracted to and are available.

Out of the 6% left, then in order for their to be a chance, SHE must be attracted to me.  I would say that this is about the 30% level that I stated above.  The field narrows to 1.8%.

I live in a small town of about 18,000 people.  Assuming 1/2 of the people here are women - that means in my town there are 162 women that are even a possibility.  That actually sounds right to me.

Out of those 162 women, MOST of them I will never even talk to.

For the record I have never dated a woman from my town - probably because of the probability I just explained.  For this reason I go to larger cities to meet women.

But...  back to that 1.8% of the women population that MIGHT be a match:

Out of those possibilities I have had great success at meeting beautiful american women that are attracted to me.  Great?  Well...  not really.  I have only talked about the physical attraction so far.

Out of these remaining few attractive, available women, I have discovered that they typically get A LOT of attention from men.  And they have their ideas about their life.

My experience has shown me that these women RARELY have any inclination of being a good wife and mother.  Some don't even have custody of their own children.

Some are independent and would rather live on skid row than admit that they need the help of a man to make life better.

Some are just in it for a good time, partying, and sex.

I even attended church for 4 years of my singlehood.  I dated a woman there hoping to marry her.  She said she is too young and cares about developing her career.  She was 26.

There are so many stories I can tell but even thinking about them frustrates the crap out of me.  Basically the women just don't seem to "Get it" when it comes to being a partner and building a family.

--why do you think these problems exist?  Do you think that feminism is responsible for these problems, as I have often seen discussed, or something else?  If so, what do you think "feminism" means or includes?

I don't know how much "feminism" has played a role in all of this.  IMO it is a terrible tragedy that there are so many men here in the USA that desire the same home life as me - but we can't find a woman that feels the same way.

Last year I was with my last AW.  And I mean...  my last.  Even if things with my Elena fall through for some unforseen reason, I don't think I will ever go back to AW.  I have talked until I'm blue in the face TOO MANY times trying to explain how it is better to be together as a team then to be individuals.  The AW just don't get it from my experience.

I was SO relieved when I found the russian women agencies and websites.  Finally - women who actually ARE interested in family.

I could go on and on.  My frustration level with AW is very high.  Walk into your average wal-mart and just look at the average AW.  They just don't care about themselves.  Seriously - go take a look.

Side note:  I ENJOY being the man in a relationship.  When I walk with Elena around russia - she walks up to a door - She usually stops and waits for me to open the door for her.  I like this.  This is one tiny example of how we live our life when we are together.  She enjoys being my woman - and I enjoy being her man.

[Wayne B]

Shadow, our home away from home......but, this is what life is all about....share in your love for each other.....It is all about family.....memories can happen with very little money spent....

[jen]

jen,

Of course these issues also affect men. But we were responding to a question about dissatisfactions with American women. And then you respond as if people are being prejudiced against women "...(affecting some men too)..." I'm sensing from you a very strong and ingrained prejudice against men, which if it is the case, you have no business being in this forum.

My intuition is screaming at me right now to back out if this thread. I'm getting really concerned that again, an "academic" study on this issue of foreign relationships will again, as they have in the past, give short shrift to the sincere and good men, the sincere and good husbands and the sincere and good fathers who are involved in cross cultural relationships.

I would be more than happy to be wrong about this, but right now my "male intuition" is telling me to back off.

Hi Sokhay,
I'm not sure why you got that impression, I was just rephrasing something I understood a few of the posters to be saying. And I understand that your skepticism is based on past experience...all I can say is, I'm grateful to anyone who wants to share, and if others prefer not to, that's fine too.

[KenC]

A few of you mentioned problems of U.S. society that affect women but might be more general problems (affecting some men too):  depression, materialism, consumerism.  Would anyone care to elaborate on those ideas?

While dating AW I could almost feel the numbers being calculated in my date's brain.  Car OK check.  House OK check.  Job OK check.  This guy is OK because he can provide me the lifestyle I deserve.  Hell, I even had one AW run a credit report on me! :usdeyes:

When I was getting to know my now wife, I sent her some photos.  Her reply was classic.  "Why did you send me photos of your house and car?  I want to see who YOU are not what you own."  Yes, I had been conditioned differently.
KenC

[Sohkay]

Hello jen,

So be it.

Good luck to you.

Sohkay

[TigerPaws]

jen,

MaxxumUSA makes some very valid points which I very much agree with.

As for the questions about your agenda, well I believe our Admin Dan most likely let you know how many men on this forum would feel about "academic" research into this subject and the problems which have resulted from past experiences.

There is no pat, quick or easy answer as to why American men would go looking to the FSU for a lady. Still I am sure you will see patterns emerging and will be able to jude for yourself what those similarities are.

TigerPaws