Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: DCcowboy on December 25, 2018, 09:02:19 AM

Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on December 25, 2018, 09:02:19 AM
I have decided to head to see my lady for our first meeting on a long weekend. Unfortunately I can't make it longer trip, but I can't wait anymore to meet her. She said she would want a longer time for our first meeting but would be excited to see me. She is still planning on coming the end of March.
This will be my first time traveling internationally. Getting a visa, did you guys just use the Russian consulate web site? How long did it take? Is there a better airline to use? I was looking at a Delta/Aeroflot combo flight. Is there more than one airport in Moscow? DC has three is the reason I ask. Any other useful information will be helpful. Thanks
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 25, 2018, 09:39:51 AM
I have decided to head to see my lady for our first meeting on a long weekend. Unfortunately I can't make it longer trip, but I can't wait anymore to meet her. She said she would want a longer time for our first meeting but would be excited to see me. She is still planning on coming the end of March.
This will be my first time traveling internationally. Getting a visa, did you guys just use the Russian consulate web site? How long did it take? Is there a better airline to use? I was looking at a Delta/Aeroflot combo flight. Is there more than one airport in Russia? DC has three is the reason I ask. Any other useful information will be helpful. Thanks

By Russia,

Did you mean Moscow ?

There are 3 international airports ...  Depending on where your lady lives - one might be more suitable than another - given it is easier to go into the centre by AeroExpress train services

Can't help on the Visa front - sorry ...  not from your side of the pond

Good luck and keep asking questions  - most of us will try to help you
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: whynotme on December 25, 2018, 09:40:29 AM
Is there more than one airport in Russia?
:cluebat:
Did they ban you at google? Where from the US? Where to in Russia? If you ask such questions, better use an  agency to apply for Visa. Of course it will take time, 2 weeks minimum. Choose Aeroflot for the flight, beautiful and young stuardesses there  ;D.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 25, 2018, 09:41:15 AM
Dude, long way to go for long weekend. Better you on weak east coast than west coast.

She can plan all she wants, trying to get US visa is better description. Not as easy now as it was several years ago.

I'll give you a few tidbits. Probably best you get 30 day visa. Big difference now is price between 30 day vs 3 year.
All depends on how often you will go. At moment you can't sure what will happen. Anyways cheapest is using ILS site, you do all work( application, sending, receiving, corrections if mistakes). There is a location in DC. I used VISAHQ, they are very simple, fill out their application, they fill out original appl for you and call you for any further questions to get appl right. There is an addl fee for their use. After all paperwork in, about 2 weeks get passport back with visa.

http://ils-usa.com/
http://www.visahq.com/russia/

There are many other companies out there to file for your visa. You can no longer go/mail to consulate/embassy to get visa, all through mail now.

Russia has 3 airports, all very far from each other and quite a distance from centre. If you use Aeroflot, you'll fly into SVO, my favorite, quick and easy through immigration.


What do you mean long weekend? Fri-Mon? You lose a day flying east. I do know there is non-stop Mos-DC on Mondays.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Nightwish on December 25, 2018, 09:45:47 AM
Dude, long way to go for long weekend. Better you on weak east coast than west coast.

She can plan all she wants, trying to get US visa is better description. Not as easy now as it was several years ago.

I'll give you a few tidbits. Probably best you get 30 day visa. Big difference now is price between 30 day vs 3 year.
All depends on how often you will go. At moment you can't sure what will happen. Anyways cheapest is using ILS site, you do all work( application, sending, receiving, corrections if mistakes). There is a location in DC. I used VISAHQ, they are very simple, fill out their application, they fill out original appl for you and call you for any further questions to get appl right. There is an addl fee for their use. After all paperwork in, about 2 weeks get passport back with visa.

http://ils-usa.com/
http://www.visahq.com/russia/

There are many other companies out there to file for your visa. You can no longer go/mail to consulate/embassy to get visa, all through mail now.

Russia has 3 airports, all very far from each other and quite a distance from centre. If you use Aeroflot, you'll fly into SVO, my favorite, quick and easy through immigration.


What do you mean long weekend? Fri-Mon? You lose a day flying east. I do know there is non-stop Mos-DC on Mondays.

I am quite sure Russia has more then 3 airports..   ;D
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 25, 2018, 09:47:05 AM

Russia has 3 airports, all very far from each other..

I guess we can put down these 'funnies' to Christmas over indulgence ?;)
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 25, 2018, 09:51:07 AM
I am quite sure Russia has more then 3 airports..   ;D


It has 4 commercial but don't know many from USA that would fly into Zhukovsky. Have you? ))
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Nightwish on December 25, 2018, 09:55:53 AM

It has 4 commercial but don't know many from USA that would fly into Zhukovsky. Have you? ))

Russia? We are talking about Russia, I am not sure, but I know Moscow has 3, St Pete 1, Sochi 1, Kaliningrad 1, Novosibirsk 1, Volgograd 1

That's 8.
or has Russia been invaded and shrunk down to only Moscow in the past couple of days?

According to Wikipedia, Russia has 11 international airports.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: whynotme on December 25, 2018, 09:57:18 AM

It has 4 commercial but don't know many from USA that would fly into Zhukovsky. Have you? ))
Moscow is not the whole Russia   :wallbash: You, guys, continue to surprise me.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: whynotme on December 25, 2018, 10:00:00 AM
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_airports_in_Russia
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 25, 2018, 10:07:46 AM
You could book a mini cruise to St Petersburg and you'll be able to meet her there - without a visa
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 25, 2018, 10:14:35 AM
Russia? We are talking about Russia, I am not sure, but I know Moscow has 3, St Pete 1, Sochi 1, Kaliningrad 1, Novosibirsk 1, Volgograd 1

That's 8.
or has Russia been invaded and shrunk down to only Moscow in the past couple of days?

According to Wikipedia, Russia has 11 international airports.


Well if you read the OP's first post here, you would know girl in question LIVES in Moscow!!!


Sorry, I saw my mistake, should have wrote "Moscow has 3 airports"!!
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 25, 2018, 10:17:13 AM

Well if you read the OP's first post here, you would know girl in question LIVES in Moscow!!!

Neither he or YOU mention Moscow in your first posts ( here )  .... but we figured it out ...  much ( harmless) fun
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 25, 2018, 10:19:22 AM
Neither he or YOU mention Moscow in your first posts ( here )  .... but we figured it out ...  much ( harmless) fun


You get did notice I wrote SVO, yes??????


I did remember OP mentioning Moscow originally.

You do all know USA has 4 airports!!!
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 25, 2018, 10:47:29 AM
Wow cowboy cowboyed up at last.  A former g f from belarus had a USA visa last year and failed to get a repeat USA visa.   She's a belarus lawyer and has a child who stays in belarus with her grandmother when her mother travels.  So UK and USA visas are getting harder to get.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 25, 2018, 10:50:38 AM
Also cowboy relax and just see how she looks after you a great predictor of the future
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DaveNY on December 25, 2018, 12:46:07 PM
I have decided to head to see my lady for our first meeting on a long weekend. Unfortunately I can't make it longer trip, but I can't wait anymore to meet her. She said she would want a longer time for our first meeting but would be excited to see me. She is still planning on coming the end of March.
This will be my first time traveling internationally. Getting a visa, did you guys just use the Russian consulate web site? How long did it take? Is there a better airline to use? I was looking at a Delta/Aeroflot combo flight. Is there more than one airport in Russia? DC has three is the reason I ask. Any other useful information will be helpful. Thanks

As others have mentioned there are multiple airports in Moscow - DME, VKO, SVO, ZIA. Ask your lady which is best to arrive at for getting to her place. Ideally it would be best if she met you at the airport and took you to your hotel/apartment although this may be too much for a first meeting. Getting a good quality map, hard copy or on your phone, of Moscow. 

Even if you're not staying with her you'll want a hotel/apartment close to her place. You do not want to have to navigate Moscow public transit for an hour or more to visit her.

Once you know where she lives you can then plan how to arrive in Moscow. Then when you know when you're going start looking at different websites to plan your flight. Costs can vary greatly if money matters.

As for a visa take a look at this site for help:

http://waytorussia.net/Travel/VisaSupport.html

Never used the embassy site and I've heard talking to embassy staff isn't too helpful but you might get lucky.   
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 25, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
Hi DC, I'm assuming since your girl is Ukrainian this meeting is happening in Russia due to work reasons, or other reasons.

I've found that while such meet up ideas can sound like the perfect solution on paper in reality they can add to the complexity of a meet up and become quite a deal to work with particularly as they can throw up issues. For second destination meet ups it's probably best to go to countries with the easiest entry situation. For Ukraine, Turkey is often seen as the country that is immediately easiest for Ukrainians to get into, westerners also. It's visa free for both and good currency conversion rates. At this time if year it will be a lot warmer than Moscow also :)
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Nightwish on December 25, 2018, 01:10:36 PM
Hi DC, I'm assuming since your girl is Ukrainian this meeting is happening in Russia due to work reasons, or other reasons.

I've found that while such meet up ideas can sound like the perfect solution on paper in reality they can add to the complexity of a meet up and become quite a deal to work with particularly as they can throw up issues. For second destination meet ups it's probably best to go to countries with the easiest entry situation. For Ukraine, Turkey is often seen as the country that is immediately easiest for Ukrainians to get into, westerners also. It's visa free for both and good currency conversion rates. At this time if year it will be a lot warmer than Moscow also :)

Did you think again? We all know that is not your strong suit.

So I started looking, and eventually started communicating with a wonderful lady from Moscow a little over a month ago off of Elenasmodels.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: JayH on December 25, 2018, 01:15:54 PM
Hi DC, I'm assuming since your girl is Ukrainian this meeting is happening in Russia due to work reasons, or other reasons.

I've found that while such meet up ideas can sound like the perfect solution on paper in reality they can add to the complexity of a meet up and become quite a deal to work with particularly as they can throw up issues. For second destination meet ups it's probably best to go to countries with the easiest entry situation. For Ukraine, Turkey is often seen as the country that is immediately easiest for Ukrainians to get into, westerners also. It's visa free for both and good currency conversion rates. At this time if year it will be a lot warmer than Moscow also :)

immediately easiest for Ukrainians to get into, westerners also. It's visa free for both

Wrong-- again ( & again & again)
How many times do you have to be told to stop posting INCORRECT information!
It is bad enough posting your inane opinions and arse up conclusions  as "advice" but it helps no one posting fundamentally WRONG info of factual issues.

As a aside - can you not read what the OP has actually said  ? IE in this case -- my recollection is the "girl" is RUSSIAN from Moscow !So-- go check a few facts -- and see how much of your post is nonsense-- again.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 25, 2018, 02:20:22 PM
immediately easiest for Ukrainians to get into, westerners also. It's visa free for both

Wrong-- again ( & again & again)
How many times do you have to be told to stop posting INCORRECT information!
It is bad enough posting your inane opinions and arse up conclusions  as "advice" but it helps no one posting fundamentally WRONG info of factual issues.

As a aside - can you not read what the OP has actually said  ? IE in this case -- my recollection is the "girl" is RUSSIAN from Moscow !So-- go check a few facts -- and see how much of your post is nonsense-- again.

Well he's thread went on a bit but I always got the impression they met in Kiev, she was from Kiev. That he passed over on 'the Duchess' for her.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 25, 2018, 02:22:01 PM
Well he's thread went on a bit but I always got the impression they met in Kiev, she was from Kiev. That he passed over on 'the Duchess' for her.

Whoops! Yeah just realised that it was probably BB I was thinking of I think :-\
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 25, 2018, 04:37:28 PM

Russia has 3 airports,


You get did notice I wrote SVO, yes??????



LAman .. it's Christmas - it was only ( an amusing ) typo ....   nothing worth getting so defensive about

You were helping, 'we' only slightly teased you

Merry Christmas


Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on December 25, 2018, 08:25:48 PM
Moscow has 3 international airports as others have mentioned. It is the largest city in Europe, larger than DC. Codes: SVO, DME, VKO


Where she lives will help determine where you land, but you must also understand that some airports are more convenient for certain airlines.


For example, if flying Delta and Aeroflot, you'll come into SVO. United will terminate at DME, etc.


What alarmed me was the statement that she is coming in March. Sorry, unless she has a visa which is very hard to get, she is not coming. Don't fall for the "a friend is a travel agent, and with some help ($$$) from you she can get me a visa" scam.


Since this is your first trip, contact a travel agent that will not only arrange flights, but apply for your entry visa. My personal recommendation is East-West-Tours in Seattle. Google them. They are accredited with the Russian government and can give good advice on how to navigate your first entry into Russia.

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on December 25, 2018, 08:49:27 PM
Thanks all for the responses, too much eggnog...... Lol, yeah meant Moscow.....  :cluebat:
She is most definitely Russian not Ukrainian.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 26, 2018, 02:16:33 AM
About the girls and visa travel agent scam.  I only know about belarus.  But please remember these women you date hopefully they are as naive as you are about the dating a foreigner process.  Many have had truly horrible first marriages with some form of abuse .  They have heard about nice western guys who treat women well.  They start to investigate travel plans with the travel agents as they don't have the same internet freedom as the western man.  The travel agents and visa agents tell these women a load of bull to make money out of them including telling them they must buy a ticket before applying for visa.  These women are used to beaurocratic ways and just do as they are told by the agents.  So a bit more understanding of the situation guys please.  So always best you visit her first or meet in a country she needs no visa for or you are throwing her into the wolf's lair.  Also as much as you are in a new sweety shop so is she. 
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 26, 2018, 03:03:34 AM
as they don't have the same internet freedom as the western man. 

??

They can subscribe to lots of sites and see the deals and they take you to  "do you need a visa ?" )

Here's TUI for example:

http://www.tui.ru/services/visas/
 (http://www.tui.ru/services/visas/)
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 26, 2018, 03:16:41 AM
Thanks msmob.  2 Belarusians and 1 Ukranian I know do everything through travel agents.  Although maybe I'm being played.  And yes I met my present gf at the tui desk in Cyprus. 
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 26, 2018, 03:20:08 AM
Every time I think I'm on top of this fsu dating I find myself wondering if I'm at the top or the bottom of the hill
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: rwd123 on December 26, 2018, 03:35:25 AM
I have decided to head to see my lady for our first meeting on a long weekend. Unfortunately I can't make it longer trip, but I can't wait anymore to meet her. She said she would want a longer time for our first meeting but would be excited to see me. She is still planning on coming the end of March.
This will be my first time traveling internationally. Getting a visa, did you guys just use the Russian consulate web site? How long did it take? Is there a better airline to use? I was looking at a Delta/Aeroflot combo flight. Is there more than one airport in Moscow? DC has three is the reason I ask. Any other useful information will be helpful. Thanks
Re visa,

Purchase a letter of invitation and apply for a tourist visa - quick and easy. You can apply for a 3 year visa but IMO make a trip first before doing so. I send my passport by mail/courier and do not attend the consulate. I assume you have a passport! (that is valid for at least six months beyond your planned stay in Russia). If you are not sure of the process just read a howto guide on other websites on how to obtain a tourist visa.

Re airports,

For a long weekend your best option is to fly via New York. There are four airports servicing Moscow, though you will not end up in Zhukovsky so essentially three. It really doesn't matter which one you end up with.

Each are connected via rail to the city or for you it may be better to order a ride via Uber or Yandex Taxi (I've had issues with Uber and my credit card in Russia so carry rubles in case you need to pay in cash.

Remember to give enough time for connections - it is easy to get held up by TSA queues or with winter flight delays.

Re accommodation,

If you want an apartment book with airbnb.com, if you want a hotel book with booking.com. I would suggest if this is your first trip to Moscow and it is for a long weekend then just book a hotel room. I like to stay near Bellorusky Station, I like the area and it's on the ring metro line which comes in handy. But anywhere on the ring metro line or inside it near a metro station is easy to navigate.

You could try and stay close to where she lives but IMO is not worth the hassle. If anything work out which side of the city she lives in (e.g., east) and stay somewhere central (e.g., inner east).

Re Moscow,

Dress warm but just check the forecast before you leave. A lot of people just wear regular clothes and have a really warm jacket and hat when outside. Wear clothes that fit you well, nothing baggy. And nice shoes!

Learn some basic Russian, even learning the alphabet may serve you better than you realize. Take some small random gifts from DC, not just for the girl you are meeting but also in case you meet other people. I don't think your first trip will be quite as adventurous as mine but I'm sure you will have fun!




Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 26, 2018, 03:48:30 AM

Each are connected via rail to the city or for you it may be better to order a ride via Uber or Yandex Taxi (I've had issues with Uber and my credit card in Russia so carry rubles in case you need to pay in cash.

There isn't  UBER in Russia - it's Yandex taxi, now - and if you choose CASH as your payment option - chances are you'll jump the queue in getting a prompt ride.

PROBLEM - you need internet to find the taxi driver outside and to use WhatsApp  - so they can contact you ..

So if you're going to go for a long weekend  - buying a local sim seems out - so can you get a daily 'as at home'  calls / internet allowance from your home provider - when abroad ?

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: rwd123 on December 26, 2018, 06:06:12 AM
There isn't  UBER in Russia - it's Yandex taxi, now - and if you choose CASH as your payment option - chances are you'll jump the queue in getting a prompt ride.
When did uber cease operations in Russia? I used them in September.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 26, 2018, 06:11:38 AM
When did uber cease operations in Russia? I used them in September.

They didn't 'cease' they came to an amicable agreement with Yandex ;)

The App still works - but I'd recommend using Yandex and use the CASH payment option
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on December 26, 2018, 06:50:36 AM
Great information, I appreciate you guy's experience. We know it is a risk for her to get a visa. She didn't go through a agency that I know of.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GenMish on December 26, 2018, 07:30:53 AM
Re visa,

Purchase a letter of invitation and apply for a tourist visa - quick and easy. You can apply for a 3 year visa but IMO make a trip first before doing so. I send my passport by mail/courier and do not attend the consulate. I assume you have a passport! (that is valid for at least six months beyond your planned stay in Russia). If you are not sure of the process just read a howto guide on other websites on how to obtain a tourist visa.

Re airports,

For a long weekend your best option is to fly via New York. There are four airports servicing Moscow, though you will not end up in Zhukovsky so essentially three. It really doesn't matter which one you end up with.

Each are connected via rail to the city or for you it may be better to order a ride via Uber or Yandex Taxi (I've had issues with Uber and my credit card in Russia so carry rubles in case you need to pay in cash.

Remember to give enough time for connections - it is easy to get held up by TSA queues or with winter flight delays.

Re accommodation,

If you want an apartment book with airbnb.com, if you want a hotel book with booking.com. I would suggest if this is your first trip to Moscow and it is for a long weekend then just book a hotel room. I like to stay near Bellorusky Station, I like the area and it's on the ring metro line which comes in handy. But anywhere on the ring metro line or inside it near a metro station is easy to navigate.

You could try and stay close to where she lives but IMO is not worth the hassle. If anything work out which side of the city she lives in (e.g., east) and stay somewhere central (e.g., inner east).

Re Moscow,

Dress warm but just check the forecast before you leave. A lot of people just wear regular clothes and have a really warm jacket and hat when outside. Wear clothes that fit you well, nothing baggy. And nice shoes!

Learn some basic Russian, even learning the alphabet may serve you better than you realize. Take some small random gifts from DC, not just for the girl you are meeting but also in case you meet other people. I don't think your first trip will be quite as adventurous as mine but I'm sure you will have fun!



All good information, some questions. BUT first GOOD LUCK DCCOWBOY!

1) In the past I was able to get Business Visas directly with the consulate, I had the direct number of the man in charge. Could you clarify which Tourist Visa website offers the best method? Is there one where you don't have to send them your passport?

2) Isnt better to get an invitation from the lady DCC will visit? I mean making her part of the process, starting to work together

3) IAD has few non stops to DME, so what is the advantage of NYC? Even if she lives next door to SVO, there are plenty of one stops from WAS

4) What do people that meet one lady here do? I would ask her to meet me at the airport. Especially Moscow, its not easy getting around your first time


Other ideas; Bring thermal underwear
I would avoid Aeroflot, and not just because of the Tupolev Horror stories I could share, but even on their long hauls they will let people smoke(but yes the stewardesses are awesome)
Check with the lady apartment vs hotel. Hotels were taboo 25 yrs ago as nice girls wouldn't go
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: rwd123 on December 26, 2018, 01:35:43 PM
1) In the past I was able to get Business Visas directly with the consulate, I had the direct number of the man in charge. Could you clarify which Tourist Visa website offers the best method? Is there one where you don't have to send them your passport?

I obtain business visas so it's a bit different. You can call the consulate and ask which company to obtain a tourist visa from. Whichever company you pick for a letter of invitation the process is the same (unless they forward your passport on your behalf).

2) Isnt better to get an invitation from the lady DCC will visit? I mean making her part of the process, starting to work together

No. A private visa is not easier to obtain, a tourist visa is by far the easiest. And if asked the reason for travel simply "tourism" is the answer! That is sufficient.

3) IAD has few non stops to DME, so what is the advantage of NYC? Even if she lives next door to SVO, there are plenty of one stops from WAS

If there were daily direct flights then I would recommend, but flying via NYC provides the most options/flexibility.

I have flown Aeroflot, never had problems or smokers and found their food to be better than higher rated airlines. The only rider is that leg room can be a little cramped on a long flight if you are tall. You can use this site to check leg room: http://www.seatguru.com/

4) What do people that meet one lady here do? I would ask her to meet me at the airport. Especially Moscow, its not easy getting around your first time

It is fairly straightforward to a) book a hotel online before leaving and b) getting a car from the airport using uber/yandex taxi straight to the hotel. Just have a mix of notes (rubles) before jumping in the car - 100USD worth will be more than enough. Once in town the metro is definitely worth taking just to stop off at some stations to see the architecture.

He could tell her the flights/accommodation details and let her decide if she wants to meet at the airport. Will tell him something about her personality.


If you want to invite a lady back to your place then definitely get an apartment, no ifs no buts. Just be warned it can be a game sometimes to find and meet your host as even with an address you'll struggle to find where you are staying. I only suggest a hotel as the OP is going overseas for the first time.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 26, 2018, 01:52:47 PM
The difficulty of  finding of an apartment address can not be overstated.  Best to ask for a cafe or shop and route from there.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GenMish on December 26, 2018, 05:02:14 PM
1) In the past I was able to get Business Visas directly with the consulate, I had the direct number of the man in charge. Could you clarify which Tourist Visa website offers the best method? Is there one where you don't have to send them your passport?

I obtain business visas so it's a bit different. You can call the consulate and ask which company to obtain a tourist visa from. Whichever company you pick for a letter of invitation the process is the same (unless they forward your passport on your behalf).

2) Isnt better to get an invitation from the lady DCC will visit? I mean making her part of the process, starting to work together

No. A private visa is not easier to obtain, a tourist visa is by far the easiest. And if asked the reason for travel simply "tourism" is the answer! That is sufficient.

3) IAD has few non stops to DME, so what is the advantage of NYC? Even if she lives next door to SVO, there are plenty of one stops from WAS

If there were daily direct flights then I would recommend, but flying via NYC provides the most options/flexibility.

I have flown Aeroflot, never had problems or smokers and found their food to be better than higher rated airlines. The only rider is that leg room can be a little cramped on a long flight if you are tall. You can use this site to check leg room: http://www.seatguru.com/

4) What do people that meet one lady here do? I would ask her to meet me at the airport. Especially Moscow, its not easy getting around your first time

It is fairly straightforward to a) book a hotel online before leaving and b) getting a car from the airport using uber/yandex taxi straight to the hotel. Just have a mix of notes (rubles) before jumping in the car - 100USD worth will be more than enough. Once in town the metro is definitely worth taking just to stop off at some stations to see the architecture.

He could tell her the flights/accommodation details and let her decide if she wants to meet at the airport. Will tell him something about her personality.


If you want to invite a lady back to your place then definitely get an apartment, no ifs no buts. Just be warned it can be a game sometimes to find and meet your host as even with an address you'll struggle to find where you are staying. I only suggest a hotel as the OP is going overseas for the first time.

Thank You for the follow up rwd123, because I would go Russia over Ukraine. I don't know what it is, I am just more comfortable going with Russia despite the extra hassle. Maybe because I have been to Russia and not Ukraine? Its weird, because I have this incredibly beautiful lady in Ukraine that still messages me(I considered seeing her back in summer but decided against it) often and something told me not to go, and continues to tell me that despite sweet texts like the Merry Christmas texts last night

I hope DCCowboy can give us a followup when he returns, as so many of these issues are a moving target and change quickly
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 27, 2018, 12:10:11 AM

1) In the past I was able to get Business Visas directly with the consulate, I had the direct number of the man in charge. Could you clarify which Tourist Visa website offers the best method? Is there one where you don't have to send them your passport?

I obtain business visas so it's a bit different. You can call the consulate and ask which company to obtain a tourist visa from. Whichever company you pick for a letter of invitation the process is the same (unless they forward your passport on your behalf).

 

I gave the site preferred by Russian consulate, ILS USA. There are many others with different pricing, cheapest is using ILS site but you do all the work.
Currently no possible way to get visa directly from a consulate. Always have to send your passport with paperwork to obtain visa.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 27, 2018, 12:28:07 AM


 

 

4) What do people that meet one lady here do? I would ask her to meet me at the airport. Especially Moscow, its not easy getting around your first time

It is fairly straightforward to a) book a hotel online before leaving and b) getting a car from the airport using uber/yandex taxi straight to the hotel. Just have a mix of notes (rubles) before jumping in the car - 100USD worth will be more than enough. Once in town the metro is definitely worth taking just to stop off at some stations to see the architecture.

 If you want to invite a lady back to your place then definitely get an apartment, no ifs no buts. Just be warned it can be a game sometimes to find and meet your host as even with an address you'll struggle to find where you are staying. I only suggest a hotel as the OP is going overseas for the first time.

I agree very easy to book a hotel online but not strightforward getting uber/yandex or gett or any other taxi you call to pick you up. very difficult to find taxi in a sea of vehicles especially at DME where you have hundreds of vehicles running around in front of you. More expensive ~~2200 rub is airport taxi but you are led directly to taxi can pay with CC and off you go. Either way, should get russian sim card. Then you can always have WiFi when you are out and about. 200-500 rub.


If you have developed a close relationship, a woman will come up to your hotel room. No ifs no buts. Its a case by case decision. Most woman would only come to lobby area if they don't feel comfortable with you yet.


An apt can be a hassle trying to find correct address. I have had a couple in Moscow where I had to keep asking people where 'this' address was, plus arranging time to meet host.
I now mostly stick to bigger hotels with gym/jacuzzi/pool.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GenMish on December 27, 2018, 05:53:17 AM
I agree very easy to book a hotel online but not strightforward getting uber/yandex or gett or any other taxi you call to pick you up. very difficult to find taxi in a sea of vehicles especially at DME where you have hundreds of vehicles running around in front of you. More expensive ~~2200 rub is airport taxi but you are led directly to taxi can pay with CC and off you go. Either way, should get russian sim card. Then you can always have WiFi when you are out and about. 200-500 rub.


If you have developed a close relationship, a woman will come up to your hotel room. No ifs no buts. Its a case by case decision. Most woman would only come to lobby area if they don't feel comfortable with you yet.


An apt can be a hassle trying to find correct address. I have had a couple in Moscow where I had to keep asking people where 'this' address was, plus arranging time to meet host.
I now mostly stick to bigger hotels with gym/jacuzzi/pool.

Im surprised this topic doesn't come up, especially in the Ukranian threads. Its not the man the woman is worried about at the hotel. They are worried about appearing as a prostitute

In fact with the high levels of Prostitution with HIV rates now so high among Ukrainian prostitutes, I would be worried about one that was willing to go to a hotel room

anyways, 25 years ago, there is no way I would get a hotel
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on December 27, 2018, 08:51:13 AM
Im surprised this topic doesn't come up, especially in the Ukranian threads. Its not the man the woman is worried about at the hotel. They are worried about appearing as a prostitute

In fact with the high levels of Prostitution with HIV rates now so high among Ukrainian prostitutes, I would be worried about one that was willing to go to a hotel room

anyways, 25 years ago, there is no way I would get a hotel


At the larger hotels with large lobby's there can be hundreds of people walking back and forth, multiple elevators, do you actually think you and your lady are going to stand out??? I can understand in smaller hotel where you walk by desk where no one is around and the person/s working there looks at you and your lady..... then I can see her being uncomfortable. I have been in some hotels where there is security at elevators checking for room entry card. Apparently there must be some kind of hanky panky there. I did find out later there is dance/strip? club at hotel.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 27, 2018, 11:33:05 AM

At the larger hotels with large lobby's there can be hundreds of people walking back and forth, multiple elevators, do you actually think you and your lady are going to stand out???

YES...

Especially, if you are a foreigner ..  bringing a lady back..

Unless she's checked in with you and they have her ID - esp in Russia - 'Good luck' ..

I'm basing my experience on staying in large Moscow, and Sochi hotels -

You get 'known'



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on December 27, 2018, 11:52:24 AM
apartments are more discreet for this kind of thing of course...
ya dumisch therefor I am, ya dumisch...
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: SteveInBoston on December 27, 2018, 12:20:57 PM
I got around the problem by registering as a couple when booking the hotel.  If things didn't go well at the first meeting, my date would simply have gone to her sister's place.  If things went well, there was no issue regarding hotel staff perceptions with her joining me in my room.))
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2018, 11:39:28 PM
The difficulty of  finding of an apartment address can not be overstated.  Best to ask for a cafe or shop and route from there.

This is absolutely true, I have got into a couple of bad situations with apartments. They came good in the end but it was hassle I didn't want. One was trying to find one the other was apotential disagreement over which apartment I was having. Fortunately cold weather was not added to either situation. I also found restaurant & also hotels greatly helpful in helping me out. It's a pain though, almost embarrassing to have to rely on others who need not feel obliged to help at all. I've asked strangers on the street but that is a less good option as generally less safe and more chance restaurant/hotel staff will speak English and be predisposed towards you DC.

Thing is Apartments can have weird set ups that makes sense to the owners but not to the customers. You can end up with office address, other apartments address, different apartment address, apartment no longer available, and of course as soon as they see you are a potentially nieve westerner, apartment swaps for a less good deal.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 27, 2018, 11:57:51 PM
I got around the problem by registering as a couple when booking the hotel.  If things didn't go well at the first meeting, my date would simply have gone to her sister's place.  If things went well, there was no issue regarding hotel staff perceptions with her joining me in my room.))

Some girls can still have issues. This question I have brought up on here before as it vexed me that some girls would bring up the whole ' No I 'will not go into a hotel' I would be regarded as a Prostitute!' While other girls would be 'No problem, why would going up stairs make me a prostitute?'. I think in the end with the help of forum members we limited it down to areas where there was a lot of western men visiting small cities particularly those with AFA tours as they gain a bit of a 'reputation' in those places.

DC echoing what those above have said I would definitely ask her first (I wouldn't mention prostitution in doing so though). Don't ask her for a preference just say about staying at a hotel and meeting there and see if there is any abrupt response against.

You'll need a pretty big hotel to avoid the all too cosy lobby feel. I wouldn't go too posh like the Four Seasons in Red Square, it's huge but you'll want less attentative staff and of course its expensive. One problem with Moscow of course is that I think they are still short on hotels from Soviet time which pushes up the price and limits available options. You'll Nedd a pretty big hotel or at least a lobby area which isn't focused/you can bypass easily without too much attention, somewhere laid back and not too bothered about what's going on.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2018, 12:45:09 AM
This is absolutely true, I have got into a couple of bad situations with apartments. They came good in the end but it was hassle I didn't want. One was trying to find one the other was apotential disagreement over which apartment I was having. Fortunately cold weather was not added to either situation. I also found restaurant & also hotels greatly helpful in helping me out. It's a pain though, almost embarrassing to have to rely on others who need not feel obliged to help at all. I've asked strangers on the street but that is a less good option as generally less safe and more chance restaurant/hotel staff will speak English and be predisposed towards you DC.

Thing is Apartments can have weird set ups that makes sense to the owners but not to the customers. You can end up with office address, other apartments address, different apartment address, apartment no longer available, and of course as soon as they see you are a potentially nieve westerner, apartment swaps for a less good deal.

Trench,

you are still a babe in the woods at this

1/ If you are on a WM, then chances are you'll be relying on yourself - those on a VO will have had the help of your 'host' to find a suitable place.

2/ Finding aprs in the FSU?  Hardly difficult with Yandex Navigator... enter the HOUSE and Street number and it'll take you right there..

If you speak little Russian and you don't know the city - then - by all means - book a hotel, for a couple of nights ... those with more confidence can use airbnb / booking.com or ask on here ... LOADS of local knowledge and help available.





Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 28, 2018, 12:55:58 AM
Apartments.  Address board on the building the size of a car rear number plate some times missing some times damaged.  So even locals don't build up subconscious knowledge of apartments.  Multiple doors in corridors with keys.  Lifts that don't stop at all floors.  A bashed up looking outside can lead to a fantastic apartment.  All very random at -10 with a unfriendly taxi driver.  Ukraine.  Maybe Moscow is different.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2018, 02:05:10 AM
Apartments.  Address board on the building the size of a car rear number plate some times missing some times damaged.  So even locals don't build up subconscious knowledge of apartments.  Multiple doors in corridors with keys.  Lifts that don't stop at all floors.  A bashed up looking outside can lead to a fantastic apartment.  All very random at -10 with a unfriendly taxi driver.  Ukraine.  Maybe Moscow is different.

Once again

Yandex Navigator

works in offline mode - no internet - if you have downloaded the map of the area

Then, there's Maps.me  .. Same principle - works in Ukraine, Russia, Belarus ...
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on December 28, 2018, 02:18:45 AM
Most apartment building numbers in Ukraine are chronological, so a missing number should not be an issue.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on December 28, 2018, 02:39:49 AM
Quite...

and if new buildings are built in between - they are - normally - suffixed with a letter

Not rocket science
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 28, 2018, 04:29:15 AM
Thanks useful info.  I get it now.  In UK we name our buildings.  Now I understand it's a number syste.   I'm about to download that web site.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on December 28, 2018, 06:20:24 AM
Most apartment building numbers in Ukraine are chronological, so a missing number should not be an issue.

This post was composed without the aid of google.


But beware that the sequencing on left side of street may have little relationship to sequencing on right side of street.

e.g.  20 on left hand side may be across from 75 on right hand side.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on December 28, 2018, 06:46:00 AM
Or that the little name plate is above the non descript main entrance which is 50 meters from the powered entry gate and all this is round the back of the building and not visible from the side street.  Plus there may be a mig fighter on a concrete plinth randomly placed by the apartment.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 06, 2019, 10:29:53 AM
Not sure what Paul Whelan did or didn't do, but thanks to him and Russia my travel plans have been denied by my employer, they have advised me not to travel to Russia or I can find another job. But she is still planning on traveling to me if her visa is approved. If not then I will have to wait for this Paul Whelan to blow over or find another job
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 06, 2019, 10:41:32 AM
Wow snap my employer would nt give me time off for my first date with the gf I'm seeing now so I handed in my notice.  The relationship now is a bit rocky but I'm glad I did.  My UK experience is managers colleagues etc get very jealous and obstructive if you start showing off photos of your f s u beautiful gf.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on January 06, 2019, 10:44:23 AM
Not sure what Paul Whelan did or didn't do, but thanks to him and Russia my travel plans have been denied by my employer, they have advised me not to travel to Russia or I can find another job. But she is still planning on traveling to me if her visa is approved. If not then I will have to wait for this Paul Whelan to blow over or find another job

Wow ....  that is a bummer ...

I am amazed at how those who work full-time  - as an employee  - can spare the time needed for this endeavour ..

The US seems to allow so little holiday ( vacation ) time

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on January 06, 2019, 10:47:22 AM
My UK experience is managers colleagues etc get very jealous and obstructive if you start showing off photos of your f s u beautiful gf.

Not mine ....   but then, I'd suggest waiting until you know you ( as a couple) are a serious item



There are even those who delight when a relationship breaks down - as you are already finding out ....
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GenMish on January 06, 2019, 12:13:08 PM
DC, I am glad she is coming to see you soon. In my case, I had plenty of vacation time but my boss thought I was too indispensable to be gone more than 1 week. After several attempts, he finally relented and allowed me to take two weeks off. In case she cant come out, start planting the seed that you will need time off and that this is important to you

James,
I hope you hated your job, or things are different in the UK. In the USA, if you have a good job that you like you dont dare walk away from it for someone you have not even met
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 06, 2019, 12:26:01 PM
Luckily for me I have people asking me to work for them.  I hear the USA is tough on holidays etc.  I work around London people get to know you by reputation.  Plus the next project they had in mind for me was more hazardous than I was used to so not a bad time to bale.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 06, 2019, 12:45:46 PM
Welllll....... Vacation is not necessarily the issue, I have plenty of that, let's just say if I travel to a country that is at odds with the US they know I will be there. It is more of a matter of me being possibily detained by the other country for similar charges just because of who for. ****read between lines****
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 06, 2019, 12:48:34 PM
Apparently not for the OP with the new development, but as to transport from airport to hotel, maybe use a hotel where you can pre-pay for a pick-up at the airport?
I haven't done that in Moscow as I was picked up by my new friends in their car, but did it when I flew down to the Platov airport near Rostov-na-Donu. As I ordered my hotel room I also ordered transportation and it worked beautifully. As I walked out from arrivals, a woman stood there with a sign with my name on it. She spoke English and was nice and guided me outside and waited with me until the taxi came. The female taxi driver didn't speak English and I had a hard time convincing her to accept a little tip once we arrived at the hotel Hermitage.
I paid around 2500 rubles and the ride was about 50 minutes.
Great times, can't wait for my next visit to Russia to meet my friends and also meet some new friends.


DCcowboy:

"Will....... Vacation is not necessarily the issue, I have plenty of that, let's just say if I travel to a country that is at odds with the US they know I will be there. It is more of a matter of me being possibily detained by the other country for similar charges just because of who for. ****read between lines****"

Let me assure you, unless you do something illegal, that will NOT happen!
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 06, 2019, 12:52:47 PM
Scales fell from eyes yes I've been to dc and flew back in a tanker
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 06, 2019, 02:07:33 PM
DC,

At best your lady friend has a 50/50 chance of getting a US tourist visa.  In the spring, when I was considering someone from Russia before I met my current lady, I looked at the chance of her coming to the US.  The average wait time for tourist visa interviews at the US Embassy at Moscow was 200 days.

Perhaps a 3rd country for your initial meeting?  She can go to Belarus anytime she wants, and as of this year they allow US citizens up to a 30 day visit to Minsk without a visa.  I think Turkey is another destination that is visa-free for both countries.

Or just anywhere in Europe, but your lady will need to get a Schengen visa - she may already have one.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 06, 2019, 05:09:14 PM
Moscow is not the whole Russia   :wallbash: You, guys, continue to surprise me.

They miss you so much that they make these posts so that you can correct them.

Happy New Year!
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 06, 2019, 05:15:20 PM
Welllll....... Vacation is not necessarily the issue, I have plenty of that, let's just say if I travel to a country that is at odds with the US they know I will be there. It is more of a matter of me being possibily detained by the other country for similar charges just because of who for. ****read between lines****

Now you are being silly. I've been to the Russian Federation 5 times and have never had a single
problem. Back in the bad ol' days there was more of stuff like that but it's very, very uncommon
these days.

Unless you are a terrorist, gun runner, wrote anti Russian speeches for John McCAin or work in
the CIA I think you should be fine.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DaveNY on January 06, 2019, 05:58:34 PM
Welllll....... Vacation is not necessarily the issue, I have plenty of that, let's just say if I travel to a country that is at odds with the US they know I will be there. It is more of a matter of me being possibily detained by the other country for similar charges just because of who for. ****read between lines****

There are literally tens of thousands of American working and visiting all over Russia at any given time. The chances of you being detained when you've done nothing are next to zero.

In the six years I lived in Moscow the only trouble I had with Russian law enforcement of any type was from a young local cop trying to solicit a bribe. My wife ended up scaring the guy so badly he left us alone.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 06, 2019, 06:15:41 PM
I assume OP works for the federal government and that’s why his employer doesn’t want him to travel to Russia. I also assume the US government has more information than we do.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 06, 2019, 06:24:39 PM
I assume OP works for the federal government and that’s why his employer doesn’t want him to travel to Russia. I also assume the US government has more information than we do.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Then why can't he just say that? Isn't the government semi closed?

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on January 06, 2019, 06:58:13 PM
He did say it. Just not directly.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 06, 2019, 08:32:15 PM
All thank you for your comments.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 06, 2019, 08:35:44 PM
DC,

At best your lady friend has a 50/50 chance of getting a US tourist visa.  In the spring, when I was considering someone from Russia before I met my current lady, I looked at the chance of her coming to the US.  The average wait time for tourist visa interviews at the US Embassy at Moscow was 200 days.

Perhaps a 3rd country for your initial meeting?  She can go to Belarus anytime she wants, and as of this year they allow US citizens up to a 30 day visit to Minsk without a visa.  I think Turkey is another destination that is visa-free for both countries.

Or just anywhere in Europe, but your lady will need to get a Schengen visa - she may already have one.
good information, I will suggest this, she has relative's in Minsk.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on January 07, 2019, 09:31:20 AM
Unless you are a terrorist, gun runner, wrote anti Russian speeches for John McCAin or work in
the CIA I think you should be fine.

None of that is relevant.

When Russia wants a person to trade . . . anyone can be the person.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 07, 2019, 09:43:28 AM
BTW, if you have an active security clearance you need to contact the state dept about any trip to Russia
I recently went, they have a new visa application just for Americans!
it asks for a detailed history of your employment and military service, weapons training, etc
and any special skills relating to engineering or science, etc
I could barely fit my details on the form!

don't get "setup" in Russia
did not follow the itinerary provided in your visa
never answer door or phone - accept no packages/envelopes
my profile in Russia is so low it could fall off a kopec
this is how I stayed out of a Russian prison
while filming Russian paramilitary facilities in Crimea
and "other matters", discreetly of course
helps to have a family for "cover"

 
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 07, 2019, 09:47:17 AM
"Turkey"

Turkey is NOT visa free, you can however get your visa when you arrive at the airport, 10 yr ago this visa cost $35 each....
5 star hotels are a little over $100 a night in the off season
incredible places to explore, Ephesus!!!!
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on January 07, 2019, 10:00:58 AM
And, there are more ancient Greek ruins in Turkey than in Greece.

Well, that's what the Turkish guidebooks say.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on January 07, 2019, 10:49:10 AM
some of the major attractions in Turkey like Göbekli Tepe are close to the conflict in Syria!
when I was there in 2006 you could already hear distant explosions coming from the direction of Syria
so I imagine now there's 10 times the amount I heard back then
plus a steady stream of desperate refugees heading over the border to the safety of Turkey
Göbekli Tepe has bad-ass highly venemous snakes out in the summer!
go about 20 miles away, and there are bronze age ruins out in the middle of no-where
I spent a whole day metal detecting there, while my wife prepared a delightful afternoon lunch with a cool pitcher of lemonade
it's a man's life out here in Göbekli Tepe...
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: jone on January 07, 2019, 11:24:19 AM
BTW, if you have an active security clearance you need to contact the state dept about any trip to Russia
I recently went, they have a new visa application just for Americans!
it asks for a detailed history of your employment and military service, weapons training, etc
and any special skills relating to engineering or science, etc
I could barely fit my details on the form!

don't get "setup" in Russia
did not follow the itinerary provided in your visa
never answer door or phone - accept no packages/envelopes
my profile in Russia is so low it could fall off a kopec
this is how I stayed out of a Russian prison
while filming Russian paramilitary facilities in Crimea
and "other matters", discreetly of course
helps to have a family for "cover"

I was just reading a bit about Paul Whelan.  While my thoughts are completely speculative, his military background coupled with various social interactions and work history make him someone that the Russians would keep close track of when in Russia.  His brother mentioned that some of the details of Whelan's personal history were kept secret from his family. To me that seems somewhat suspicious, although the exclusions may have been out of embarrassment.  I was surprised to hear that he had passports from three countries.

But other details of the arrest and the representation seem a total setup.   The court appointed lawyer representing Whelan does not speak any English and already is suggesting a prisoner trade.  That assumes that Whelan is guilty, although he hasn't been charged with any specific crime.  Could just be that Whelan is a small time operator in some shady area and that the Russians 'tapped' him because they always had him under surveillance and knew that they could play this card to get one of their people exchanged.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GQBlues on January 07, 2019, 05:37:02 PM
Not sure what Paul Whelan did or didn't do, but thanks to him and Russia my travel plans have been denied by my employer, they have advised me not to travel to Russia or I can find another job. But she is still planning on traveling to me if her visa is approved. If not then I will have to wait for this Paul Whelan to blow over or find another job

Who gives a damn what Whelan did to put him in the predicament he is in today? His apprehension, FWIW, was a reaction against the apprehension of an alleged Russian spy in the US. To base your decision, or even your employer, on the detention of Paul Whelan seem rather dubious.

If you can't go, you can't go. No drama. However, if she's someone 'important' enough to you, heck, meet in Prague/Warsaw, etc..with or without any Paul Whelan's influence.

I don't understand what propel men would make a statement about quitting their employment over a woman they haven't met.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 07, 2019, 06:46:42 PM
In my case it was not about a woman it was about freedom to hunt.  On your death bed do you want to look back and think I was a good little paper pusher oh I was so efficient now I'll retire and watch tv.  What has become of your pioneer nation that you are so afraid.  Or are you on this site to get your kicks 3rd hand
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: jone on January 07, 2019, 07:31:21 PM
Who gives a damn what Whelan did to put him in the predicament he is in today? His apprehension, FWIW, was a reaction against the apprehension of an alleged Russian spy in the US. To base your decision, or even your employer, on the detention of Paul Whelan seem rather dubious.

If you can't go, you can't go. No drama. However, if she's someone 'important' enough to you, heck, meet in Prague/Warsaw, etc..with or without any Paul Whelan's influence.

I don't understand what propel men would make a statement about quitting their employment over a woman they haven't met.

GQ,

I know plenty of people who work for TRW or other companies that do defense contracting and or other related things that do not allow their people to go to Russia.   They are told, outright; "don't go there".  It is company policy.   

But I don't think the OP is contemplating Russia, just trying to figure out how to meet a woman who he finds .... intriguing.   

Intriguing.   That's a clever little word.   Has all sorts of meanings.

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: The Natural on January 08, 2019, 03:52:08 AM
GQ,

I know plenty of people who work for TRW or other companies that do defense contracting and or other related things that do not allow their people to go to Russia.   They are told, outright; "don't go there".  It is company policy.   


I know someone working as an air traffic controller and doesn't risk visiting Russia. Security clearance is ridiculously strict and they demand to know every little detail about your life and if you try to hide anything, you're in serious problems. I imagine it is the same or more for military personell in a NATO country and anyone affiliated, military or civilian, to the military/security complex.


It would be naive to think that the Russians are not aware of that and my speculation is that any individual from the west involved in any of these branches will be monitored closely if they come into Russia. They would of course view it as a security risk. I feel pretty certain this Whelan guy has been in the sights of Russian intelligence for a long time before the arrest. The Russians arrested a Norwegian for spying (he's still in prison) and they knew about him and monitored him several trips to Russia before arresting him. Media claimed foul play, but he eventually admitted to handing over money to someone, from an intelligence officer in Norway.
If the Russians arrest someone for spying, they have grounds for it.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on January 08, 2019, 05:32:42 AM


If the Russians arrest someone for spying, they have grounds for it.

Yes, like needing a profile that fits the bill for a swap for a REAL spy  of theirs.......

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 09, 2019, 03:40:42 PM
Is there a easy country for her to visit, maybe something in Western Europe? Something friendly to the US?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on January 09, 2019, 04:12:32 PM
Something friendly to the US?

Don't you know we are the bad guys . . . at least until the sheeeeeet hits the fan?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 09, 2019, 05:43:49 PM
... who he finds .... intriguing.   

Intriguing.   That's a clever little word.   Has all sorts of meanings.

change it to strongly irresistibly intrigued...... Then you got it right on the money.  ;)
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 09, 2019, 05:45:25 PM
Don't you know we are the bad guys . . . at least until the sheeeeeet hits the fan?
wait....... What...... We are the bad guys???!!??
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on January 10, 2019, 12:26:21 AM
"Turkey"

Turkey is NOT visa free, you can however get your visa when you arrive at the airport, 10 yr ago this visa cost $35 each....


You can get an e-visa online - before travelling - cost $20 to US citizens ..

http://www.evisa.gov.tr/en/apply/ (http://www.evisa.gov.tr/en/apply/)

Most developed nations can buy one on arrival - not worth the hassle - as IF you somehow arrive at a regional airport - you may need to pay cash and be escorted through the border to get to an ATM - worn this t-shirt- not a scenario you'd face at Istanbul.

Russian nationals do not need a visa


Meeting in a third destination for the first meeting ? ... Hmmm...



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 10, 2019, 01:52:26 AM
That's the problem USA black and white thinking.  Actually had a briefing from a usaf  officer referring to good guys and bad guys.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: JayH on January 10, 2019, 02:08:03 AM
That's the problem USA black and white thinking.  Actually had a briefing from a usaf  officer referring to good guys and bad guys.

James -- you may have missed it--- but forum is full of simplistic Americans !! ;D :tmi:


plus -- some simpletom poms !
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 10, 2019, 04:34:15 AM
And some members from the British penal colonies too
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 10, 2019, 10:55:18 AM
good information, I will suggest this, she has relative's in Minsk.

I rarely would recommend this for first time meetings but, Russians have visa free access to Mexico.
Fly both of you to Cabo, let her get some sand between her toes and frolic around in a bikini. Shorter
flight for you and it's highly unlikely that Mexico is on the do not go list. In Minsk, you might run into
similar problems with your employer.   

NOTE: This is a photo I pulled off the internet on a sport fishing in Cabo site. It's not me or anyone I know
(http://i1.wp.com/loscabospassport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ursulas-Fishing-Fleet-2.jpg?zoom=2&resize=1140%2C642)

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Hammer2722 on January 10, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
I rarely would recommend this for first time meetings but, Russian have visa free access to Mexico.
Fly both of you to Cabo, let her get some sand between her toes and frolic around in a bikini. Shorter
flight for you and it's highly unlikely that Mexico is on the do not go list. In Minsk, you might run into
similar problems with your employer.   

NOTE: This is a photo I pulled off the internet on a sport fishing in Cabo site. It's not me or anyone I know
(http://i1.wp.com/loscabospassport.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/Ursulas-Fishing-Fleet-2.jpg?zoom=2&resize=1140%2C642)

Not a bad idea.....
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 10, 2019, 12:57:29 PM
And if you really fancy her stick her in your suitcase and drive her over the border thats why we meet them in paris..not my style... But it's been done
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 10, 2019, 03:06:21 PM
Not a bad idea.....

For a first meeting I almost always recommend visiting her in her home city and
wait until you know things work out before visiting to a vacation spot. Imagine if
she turns out to be a she devil or crazy, then you are stuck together on vacation.

I think the worst situation would be on a cruise ship together and have it not work
out.

If you can't travel to her home country without losing your job, then I can think of
a lot of places worse than Cabo.

NOTE: If you go to CABO ALWAYS WEAR SUNGLASSES AT ALL TIMES!!!
It will protect your eyes from those umbrella drinks

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 11, 2019, 05:49:03 AM
And if you really fancy her stick her in your suitcase and drive her over the border thats why we meet them in paris..not my style... But it's been done
lol...... I will bring this up.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 11, 2019, 05:52:52 AM
I rarely would recommend this for first time meetings but, Russians have visa free access to Mexico.
Fly both of you to Cabo
Cabo out of the question, exinlaws live there 6months of the year. But I will suggest another City in Mexico. I like the idea of seeing her in a bikini.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 11, 2019, 08:14:19 AM
Cowboy one of the most important Russian words you need to know.....popa...just tell her that her popa looks good .  It means ....Nice bikini...
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on January 11, 2019, 10:35:56 PM
Better you feel a 'connection' of the heart and mind ... the soul... and learn to tell your intended how you FEEL about her and you're more likely to see her in a bikini for many years ...not just one holiday ( vacation)

Ты согреваешь мою душу

You warm my soul



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 12, 2019, 05:27:23 AM
Better you feel a 'connection' of the heart and mind ... the soul... and learn to tell your intended how you FEEL about her and you're more likely to see her in a bikini for many years ...not just one holiday ( vacation)

Ты согреваешь мою душу

You warm my soul

I realize that and agree with it while heartedly..... Though just saying what Man wouldn't mind seeing his '14' girlfriend in a bikini???? Just saying.....
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 12, 2019, 08:43:49 AM
To briefly revisit earlier posts, I would never in a million years invite a girlfriend to a hotel. Perhaps it is because I have a great deal of FSU history, and certainly things have opened a lot, but still I would not. Get an AIRBNB.


Those girls (prostitutes) hanging out around the lobby and bars are not independent. They are unionized in the sense of having a "roof" and are being watched constantly.


A girl who comes to your room, innocent as she may be, is in the minds of some "roofs" as depriving them of income because you don't need one of his girls downstairs. The last thing you want is to leave town and learn later than someone paid your friend a visit and beat the crap out of her because she intruded on what he regards as his territory. What they might do to her will be long lasting. It is not pretty.


Maybe it won't happen.....but is it worth the risk?

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 12, 2019, 08:46:54 AM
It is easier to register a lady with you, but dangers still exist. I remember our honeymoon decades ago when a St Peter hotel refused us a room because we had different last names on our passports. We had just been married and carried ZAGS documents with us, but it was over an hour before we were allowed to check in the same room.
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 12, 2019, 11:53:27 AM
I remember our honeymoon

Peter the Great was still in charge if I recall  :D
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on January 12, 2019, 11:57:57 AM
Cabo out of the question, exinlaws live there 6months of the year. But I will suggest
another City in Mexico. I like the idea of seeing her in a bikini.

I still get warm feelings when I remember Angel Eyes frolicking around in a bikini
in the Ocean during the early part of our romance.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 12, 2019, 12:10:16 PM
Well there are no visible pros in my hotel and no problem with the one person I met coming and going.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 12, 2019, 12:41:20 PM
Peter the Great was still in charge if I recall  :D


Yes, how did you know?!  :-)
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 12, 2019, 12:52:30 PM
Internet is a better selling model than hanging about in bars.  Be that dating or hooking.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 13, 2019, 10:33:55 AM
**Update** I think we settled on Belgium in spring, if her visa doesn't come through. And will deal with the other stuff of me coming to Russia later.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on January 13, 2019, 10:47:41 AM
**Update** I think we settled on Belgium in spring, if her visa doesn't come through and will deal with the other stuff if me coming to Russia later.

A really exciting place known for its cuisine.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 13, 2019, 10:56:06 AM
Msmob is correct Cyprus is the place Aphrodite etc  and beach popa.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 14, 2019, 01:40:24 PM
Hmmm. I got this suggestion in another thread, but I had never thought about Spain, and the US is even very friendly with them, I think there is even a navy base there.

On another note, I know there was discussion on checking into a hotel as a couple, I am thinking we will just say we are engaged....... Although I really like this women I usually don't sleep with a Lady on the first night of having a relationship plus given the fact that we have never met in person that just seems odd. I think I might plan on booking a suite and give her the option or not of sleeping with me, I mean what if she snores...... Gaaawwttt.... What have you guys encountered?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on January 14, 2019, 01:58:47 PM
I think I might plan on booking a suite and give her the option or not of sleeping with me, I mean what if she snores...... Gaaawwttt.... What have you guys encountered?

I did encounter one Ukrainian snorer.  WOW how that can kill the relationship.
Otherwise, she was very good in bed.
But I think she probably drank too much also, so wouldn't have lasted anyway.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on January 14, 2019, 02:31:27 PM
DC you really are a worrier sleep in a clean pair off boxers she'll sleep in what ever she planned a week before the meeting.  You don't have to actually do more than sleep.  She's not 16 you've both been round the block a few times in the passed before.  She's a human not a piece of fragile glass.  Just let her do what she already has planned.  Which will be to kick the tires and light the fires.  Ps Cyprus in the east Mediterranean. 
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 14, 2019, 03:51:45 PM
DC you really are a worrier sleep in a clean pair off boxers she'll sleep in what ever she planned a week before the meeting.  You don't have to actually do more than sleep.  She's not 16 you've both been round the block a few times in the passed before.  She's a human not a piece of fragile glass.  Just let her do what she already has planned.  Which will be to kick the tires and light the fires.  Ps Cyprus in the east Mediterranean.
yeah maybe so. In my line of work I come from the standpoint of knowing everything. Lots of unknowns here, diffinetly out if my confront zone, but that is a good thing! That is what life is and exciting.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GQBlues on January 14, 2019, 03:58:07 PM
...On another note, I know there was discussion on checking into a hotel as a couple, I am thinking we will just say we are engaged....... Although I really like this women I usually don't sleep with a Lady on the first night of having a relationship plus given the fact that we have never met in person that just seems odd. I think I might plan on booking a suite and give her the option or not of sleeping with me, I mean what if she snores...... Gaaawwttt.... What have you guys encountered?

It is my understanding that to better accommodate US citizens seeking wives in the FSU, the governments of all former Soviet States had made available chastity belts to be available at every arrival airport in the FSU. They also gave you an option to have the gal you're visiting to BYOCB (Bring Your Own Chastity Belt) to ensure proper fit.

Information regarding this can be found on every marriage agency website under 'Virgin' Romeo' Page. Complete with a 1-2-3 step-by-step 'Love You Long Time' instruction
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 14, 2019, 04:35:33 PM
It is my understanding that to better accommodate US citizens seeking wives in the FSU, the governments of all former Soviet States had made available chastity belts to be available at every arrival airport in the FSU. They also gave you an option to have the gal you're visiting to BYOCB (Bring Your Own Chastity Belt) to ensure proper fit.

Information regarding this can be found on every marriage agency website under 'Virgin' Romeo' Page. Complete with a 1-2-3 step-by-step 'Love You Long Time' instruction
that is damn funny.......even funnier with a jack and coke. :D :D :D :D ;D :D LMFAOROF
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 15, 2019, 05:16:09 AM
Hmmm. I got this suggestion in another thread, but I had never thought about Spain, and the US is even very friendly with them, I think there is even a navy base there.

On another note, I know there was discussion on checking into a hotel as a couple, I am thinking we will just say we are engaged.......

I think you are mixing up another topic here - the apartment vs hotel discussion.  That was about how to get around some ladies' objections of not wanting to join you in your Ukrainian/Russian hotel when you met them after travelling there. 

It is none of the hotel's business whether you are enagaged, friends, just met her yesterday, etc.  They just need to know who are authorized guests for the room.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 15, 2019, 06:50:50 AM

It is none of the hotel's business whether you are enagaged, friends, just met her yesterday, etc.  They just need to know who are authorized guests for the room.


It is tempting to think of these issues from our Western mindset. But there are hotels in the FSU that might think differently.


For me, the issue would be whether I would wish to risk harm to the girl after I'd left town. Just not worth it in my opinion.


In a related vein, sometimes ladies are sometimes at first hesitant about inviting a foreign guy to her apartment home until she is more comfortable that he is the one for her. In quarters where hundreds and in some cases thousands of people live in the same complex, tongues wag and life can be embarrassing for her if word gets out that "foreign men are coming to her apartment."


Apartment rental is still the way to go. When she is comfortable, and that could be rather quickly, entering her home can be a source of pride for her.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 15, 2019, 09:20:01 AM

It is tempting to think of these issues from our Western mindset. But there are hotels in the FSU that might think differently.


For me, the issue would be whether I would wish to risk harm to the girl after I'd left town. Just not worth it in my opinion.


In a related vein, sometimes ladies are sometimes at first hesitant about inviting a foreign guy to her apartment home until she is more comfortable that he is the one for her. In quarters where hundreds and in some cases thousands of people live in the same complex, tongues wag and life can be embarrassing for her if word gets out that "foreign men are coming to her apartment."


Apartment rental is still the way to go. When she is comfortable, and that could be rather quickly, entering her home can be a source of pride for her.

Mendy,

The OP is planning to meeting her in Spain.  Also, he is pre-registering her as a guest in the hotel.  He does not have to explain her specific relationship to him to the hotel.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: mendeleyev on January 15, 2019, 10:47:49 AM
Mendy,

The OP is planning to meeting her in Spain.  Also, he is pre-registering her as a guest in the hotel.  He does not have to explain her specific relationship to him to the hotel.


Thank you for that clarification, Steve. You are correct.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on January 15, 2019, 04:47:01 PM
Mendy,

The OP is planning to meeting her in Spain.  Also, he is pre-registering her as a guest in the hotel.  He does not have to explain her specific relationship to him to the hotel.

Are you sure about that Steve? Spain?  I am sure the OP may change his mind a few times where to vacation.

What is exactly 'pre-registering'? I never have done that. Sometimes it does as for name of guest but not critical to put a name in.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on January 15, 2019, 05:30:20 PM
Msmob tyre tire same noun both acceptable spellings in the UK.  Obviously the quote is USA so spelt that way.

Utter twaddle..In UK English tyre is a noun and tire is verb...


Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 15, 2019, 05:39:15 PM
We are titter-tottering between Spain or Belgium. Thank you. What went wrong with my first marriage is a very long story I am not going into here but it has nothing to do with this. I am actually a type A personality.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on January 15, 2019, 06:50:16 PM
We are titter-tottering between Spain or Belgium. Thank you. What went wrong with my first marriage is a very long story I am not going into here but it has nothing to do with this. I am actually a type A personality.

You mean titter-tottering between Spain or Belgium or USA????
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on January 15, 2019, 07:18:05 PM
You mean titter-tottering between Spain or Belgium or USA????
She might get a visa to the US, we are guaranteed to Spain or Belgium.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: SteveInBoston on January 16, 2019, 05:22:45 AM
Are you sure about that Steve? Spain?  I am sure the OP may change his mind a few times where to vacation.

What is exactly 'pre-registering'? I never have done that. Sometimes it does as for name of guest but not critical to put a name in.

Yes LA, I am sure.  The specific post that Mendy and I were going back and forth about was the OP's plan of going to Spain and telling the hotel they are engaged. 

The OP changing his mind or his woman friend getting a visa to the US would be a different subject from our discussion and comments.

Pre-registering is registering the name of the guest with the hotel.  It is awesome you don't like doing that.  I will sleep soundly in my bed knowing that people do things differently.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: rmcmonty on February 16, 2019, 08:40:52 AM
Hmmm. I got this suggestion in another thread, but I had never thought about Spain, and the US is even very friendly with them, I think there is even a navy base there.

 
had never thought about Spain, and the US is even very friendly with them, I think there is even a navy base there"Although I really like this women I usually don't sleep with a Lady on the first night of having a relationship plus given the fact that we have never met in person that just seems odd. I think I might plan on booking a suite and give her the option or not of sleeping with me,

DC-The Navy base is in Rota, Spain, way in the south. Because there is a US Military Base somewhere doesn't necessarily mean the people like us.

When MW and I were deciding on hotel rooms, I just asked her "one room or two?" She told me: We aren't teenagers any longer. The decision was hers and hers alone. She decided on one room.

Good Luck, Monty
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 16, 2019, 09:19:14 AM
When MW and I were deciding on hotel rooms, I just asked her "one room or two?" She told me: We aren't teenagers any longer. The decision was hers and hers alone. She decided on one room.

I remember several years back when one of our female members here was traveling to a third country to meet with a man.  In one posting she wrote something like:  "I hope there will be some sex involved."

But everyone is different, so it is a real crap shoot trying to guess who might and who might not.

In general women don't have much foresight about this and are unwilling to admit to themselves that they might participate in quick sex.   If they were more honest with themselves, there would be a lot less unplanned pregnancies.  i.e. They would be prepared, and not rely on the man having contraceptives.  Men cannot be relied upon because they don't get pregnant.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 16, 2019, 09:41:41 AM
gawsh!

this is page 1 basic material of  “Krimster’s Guide to Sex in Ukraine/Novo Russia” kinda topic...

you are correct in that you provide HER a choice
but you “frame” the presentation of this to her thusly:

“we can get two separate rooms, but they will be smaller and not as nice as having one larger SUITE”

if she picks 2 separate rooms, bummer, wait a day, then tell her something’s come up at work and you have to call off the trip, cuz you’re bein’ played son...

if she picks the suite, then you just both agreed to sex...

see how simple it all is!!!!

general guidelines on how to proceed from there

1. DON'T do sex on the first day, unless she initiates it, if she does, produce your BEST performance, if you "blow it" "she won't"...
2. focus on having fun together, what makes her laugh, have her try new food/experiences, make her the complete focus of your attention

after 3 days together, THEN during the night, say in a very sleepy sounding voice "that you're cold" (which for me was actually true)
and snuggle up next to her
when she snuggles back
then snuggle up a little bit more
make sure a little bit of (look instead of saying "Willy" can we change his name to "Maxime"?) is making contact...
then think about a 5GHZ Intel Core i9-9900K CPU (ahhhhh, and with NVidia GPU!)
when that produces the inevitable reaction, she will DEFINITELY notice it
and things will proceed from there...
hopefully these tiny little suggestion will be useful for you Bee Farmer and Mr Beard

part dva

guys like Bee Farmer from some burg like “Hawg Hollar, Alabammie” will likely find it difficult to cope with the body function differences between Ukrainians and Confederate Sympathizers.

Confederate Sympathizers (Americans) behave more like Puritans (discreet, modest, etc)
wait till you’re in the bathroom shaving and this UW you just barely met, barges in and then sits on the toilette in front of you Bee Farmer...

whatcha gonna do, boy? I can just imagine the shocked look on your face “Bee Farmer”, you weren’t ready for that were you?

I can just imagine you exclaiming to yourself, “good lawd! I could heah the pee pee comin' out and EVERYTHANG!”

damn, I just realized, you’re probably into that sort of thing, my bad!!!!


Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: rmcmonty on February 16, 2019, 09:58:50 AM
I remember several years back when one of our female members here was traveling to a third country to meet with a man.  In one posting she wrote something like:  "I hope there will be some sex involved."

But everyone is different, so it is a real crap shoot trying to guess who might and who might not.

In general women don't have much foresight about this and are unwilling to admit to themselves that they might participate in quick sex.   If they were more honest with themselves, there would be a lot less unplanned pregnancies.  i.e. They would be prepared, and not rely on the man having contraceptives.  Men cannot be relied upon because they don't get pregnant.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: rmcmonty on February 16, 2019, 10:01:03 AM
Man did I just screw up!!! Quoted and hit "Post"....

ML- Getting her pregnant never entered my mind. Why? I got "fixed" when I was 30 :) It takes the worry out of being close :)

Monty
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on February 16, 2019, 11:19:07 AM
gawsh!

this is page 1 basic material of  “Krimster’s Guide to Sex in Ukraine/Novo Russia” kinda topic...

you are correct in that you provide HER a choice
but you “frame” the presentation of this to her thusly:

“we can get two separate rooms, but they will be smaller and not as nice as having one larger SUITE”

if she picks 2 separate rooms, bummer, wait a day, then tell her something’s come up at work and you have to call off the trip, cuz you’re bein’ played son...

if she picks the suite, then you just both agreed to sex...

see how simple it all is!!!!

Thanks man!! Just sent her a letter.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 16, 2019, 11:54:14 AM
you're probably NOT anxiously awaiting the response, right...???

how long ago did you check your email?
maybe she's already said that "she will"....
better check...

haha made ya look!!!
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on February 16, 2019, 12:49:35 PM
I think I might plan on booking a suite and give her the option or not of sleeping with me,

Good Luck, Monty

I would go online to the airbnb your are staying in and look at the
photos of the apartment, then find one of the light fixtures and send
her a photo of it.

When she asks you why, tell her to wear panties that will look good hanging
from the lamp.

Fortune favors the bold. You've spend a lot of time talking and discussing all
sorts of things. You haven't talked about sex? It would have occurred to me to
tell her to limber up and take her vitamins because she is going to need her
strength.

You aren't teenagers, you've been talking a long time without meeting in person.
Unless one or the other is repulsed by the other in person it's only natural to get
your freak on.

The woman you are visiting wants you to seduce her, she wants you to romance her,
she wants you to win her heart. She also wants to think that you are very sexually
attracted to her, so there is no reason to go all Victorian on the girl.

If for some reason she isn't ready then she is more than capable of telling you. There
isn't a single FSUW who isn't hideously ugly that hasn't been hit on 100 times before
she met you. She will know how to say no if she isn't ready.

FSUW would rather you make a pass at them too early rather than too late. She isn't some
feminazi that you need notarized step by step permission forms. 

Lastly,

These women aren't afraid of talking about sex. The FSU is not the bible belt. They haven't
been brought up thinking that it's dirty. They don't want to talk about it on the first discussion,
but if you've had twenty or so conversations there is no reason not to ask start asking them a
question or two.

Udachi!

Bill
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on February 16, 2019, 12:54:26 PM
Man did I just screw up!!! Quoted and hit "Post"....

Monty

You can go back to your post and hit modify, it's right next to the quote button.
Then you can go in and edit your post.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on February 18, 2019, 04:56:35 AM
you're probably NOT anxiously awaiting the response, right...???

how long ago did you check your email?
maybe she's already said that "she will"....
better check...

haha made ya look!!!
I gave it 24.....… Minutes, we are in contact about once or twice a day. She said she would prefer a two bedroom. So she either honestly prefers to keep her option open to it or she thinks I would prefer a two bedroom...... Frack... I hate poker.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 18, 2019, 05:10:58 AM
I gave it 24.....… Minutes, we are in contact about once or twice a day. She said she would prefer a two bedroom. So she either honestly prefers to keep her option open to it or she thinks I would prefer a two bedroom...... Frack... I hate poker.

Suggest an exceedingly good deal has come up on a one bed suite or the two beds  have just sold out, would she mind? ;D
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 18, 2019, 12:01:44 PM
In FSU I always stayed in apartments that had 2 sleeping areas.
Didn't have to be 2 bedrooms, as most of what we might consider a living room in USA would have a bed of some sort in FSU.  Fold out or otherwise.

I would never want to share a place with only one sleeping area with any woman (or man).

It could be a terrible situation (with no sleep) to have to share a bed with a woman who didn't want to have sex.

There is also the situation of snoring, thrashing about during sleep, etc., etc.

If forced into a one sleeping area situation (e.g. a hotel only having one room available) then at least go for two beds rather than one.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on February 18, 2019, 02:37:09 PM
She might get a visa to the US, we are guaranteed to Spain or Belgium.

First, why are you all over the place on where to visit? Stop that. FSUW don't want
you to be wishy-washy and unable to make a decision. You are paying for it, put together
a plan and tell her about it fait accompli. She will be really happy.

Make a decision, and then tell her what it is. Something like,

"Privet Sweet Buns I purchased tickets for you to _________________ on
March 7 so that we will be together on March 8th. We will stay in an apartment
I found on airbnb. It has one bed but the couch can be made into a bed just in
case I think you smell funny, if you smell fine you can sleep in the bed with me.
I saved a lot of money and the beach is only a 5 minute walk." 

Tell her to bring her bikini and sunglasses and make yourself in charge of the
sunscreen. Because FSUW are mostly clueless about it UNTIL AFTER they have
a bad sunburn.

Regarding Spain vs Belgium

Go to Spain, f#ck Belgium.

1. Spain is Cheaper
2. The Beach in Belgium is the North Sea which is really cold and there
will be very little frolicking around in a Bikini. The Mediterranean vs the
North Sea is NO contest.   
3. Spanish food is better
4. Your Spanish is better than your French, Dutch or German
5. You've never traveled internationally before and Spain is relatively laid back
6. Either way she has a stamp in her passport showing she traveled to Europe
and came back home at the end of the trip which is helpful in getting future
US Visa's

Udachi! 


Bill
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 04:07:34 PM
I gave it 24.....… Minutes, we are in contact about once or twice a day. She said she would prefer a two bedroom. So she either honestly prefers to keep her option open to it or she thinks I would prefer a two bedroom...... Frack... I hate poker.


You have never met in person.  She isn't playing poker.  She is making a request any normal woman of moral character and common sense would make.  You may meet and decide within an hour that you are ill suited to one another.  Then what?


This post was composed without the aid of google.



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2019, 04:45:01 PM
are you gonna listen to "krasne sapatchka",
or are you gonna listen to yur uncle krimster? shto te dumisch?

yur bein played son...
if you go along then not only is she playing you but you're playing yourself with the delusion she's dangling in front of you...
tell her you REALLY want a suite...
and if she puts up ANY BS about it
then tell her das va danya (i'd go with the suddenly something came up at work, mother died, etc., gotta bail)

or
go and waste your time and money and feel intense sexual frustration (i'm sure it must feel awful, but I personally wouldn't know)
and use it as a "teaching moment" I'm sure you'll learn a lot...
it's up to you, but you're not "getting any"... 100% you are being played...
i'm sure you'll figure it out eventually...
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 04:49:12 PM
How has he been played?  IIRC, she asked him to visit her, and his employer doesn't want him to go to Russia.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2019, 04:55:37 PM
"How has he been played?  IIRC, she asked him to visit her, and his employer doesn't want him to go to Russia."



it's not Espana vrs Russia, it's dva room vrs edin
ahhh do declare Miss Boethius, ahhh simply never, I say never met a Russian woman who prized her non existent virtue over a donkey ride
something clearly is amiss...



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 04:57:23 PM
They have never met in person.  Most women would make the same request.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2019, 05:10:43 PM
"Most women would make the same request."

regrettably that has been the opposite of my own personal experience
he put her to "the test" and she failed the test
it's really THAT simple BO,
and BO darling
I have slept with far, far, far more FSU women than you...
therefor have MUCH more experience than you on this subject
surely you must concede this small point...

if you do not accept the veracity of my assertion
that he's "being played" and that she "failed the test"
then let us create a new test other than the standard one of two vrs one room one
alright?
since I presented the first test, what test do you propose?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 05:14:23 PM
Exactly how many of those women that you took abroad (to the EU) had you never met in person before your trip? 

And exactly how did that work out?  Did you marry any of them?  View them as "wife" material?

I think the fact a woman is willing to even share a room, even with separate bedrooms, with a man she has never met IRL says she trusts him far more than the majority of women would.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2019, 05:22:47 PM
location my dearest one is totally irrelevant...
there is really only one question of import
and that is
“will she or won’t she”
and I am telling you with 100% certainty
that two rooms means she won’t
and if she won’t
then he’s being played
hit the reset button
next contestant

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 05:33:57 PM
You didn't answer the first question.  How many of the women you took on trips had you not met, face to face, before that trip?

Other posters here, some married, have taken trips to Egypt, to Turkey, to the Caribbean, and arranged two separate rooms.  On most of those trips, some in the TR section, things progressed as one would expect.  One poster was thankful for separate rooms, as he and the woman he was with did not get along.  He ended up booking her a separate room.  So, I believe your statement is overly broad. Most women are not going to hop into bed with a man they have never met in person.  That's just reality.

I'm not saying this woman absolutely, 100%, is genuine, I can't know that.  But I do know that just because she isn't willing to share a bed with a stranger, that doesn't make her a scammer.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2019, 06:05:57 PM
"But I do know that just because she isn't willing to share a bed"

ahhh mon cheri!
such a simple remedy to this objection...
twin beds....

and I still posit with great conviction that if he counters with an offer of a suite with two beds that she will still prefer two separate rooms...
ergo she's putting as much distance as possible between them
you think she's doing this cuz "she's a good girl" do you?
would you like to buy my old Trump University courses for half price?


Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 06:13:33 PM
"But I do know that just because she isn't willing to share a bed"

ahhh mon cheri!
such a simple remedy to this objection...
twin beds....

and I still posit with great conviction that if he counters with an offer of a suite with two beds that she will still prefer two separate rooms...
ergo she's putting as much distance as possible between them
you think she's doing this cuz "she's a good girl" do you? would you like to buy my old Trump University courses for half price?
I know how women think.  It's nothing about being a "good" girl.  I think asking for 2 rooms is practical, from both their perspectives.  If it turns out they are compatible, the second room will sit unused after a period.  If they are not compatible, then two rooms will look like a genius request.

Again, how many women went on holiday with you to share a bed having never met you in person before the trip? 

Yes, there is a risk she is a scammer, but there are other plausible reasons for asking for a separate room.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 18, 2019, 07:00:57 PM
I don't think it is a total bad sign when the woman chooses 2 rooms . . . if she is asked the question.

It really is the sane thing to do.

As I noted elsewhere, what I have always done is tell that there will be two separate sleeping areas.

But if you give the option of two rooms, most women would probably choose that . . . at this stage of the game before you have met.

I sometimes also include a line such as:  "you can bring a dog or a gun for protection."

Some women have replied:  "will that be for your protection?"

If you really want to insure there will be sex . . . then ask her to map out her future periods so that you can choose the appropriate meeting times.

But then the excitement and stress of a trip can change that event anyway.

I remember once I spent a romantic week with one gal, then she returned to her home city and we planned for her to come back in 7-10 days or so.  As I kissed her goodbye at the train station, I told her to have her period while she was gone.  In a couple of days she proudly  reported that the event was underway.  Just a coincidence . . . I don't think so.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 18, 2019, 08:17:11 PM
"It really is the sane thing to do."

really?
what part of ANY of this is SANE?

the OP has been warned he's being played
if he doubts the veracity of my words
then he's free not to listen to them and proceed as though he didn't hear me...
won't be the first person on this board who I warned was being played
and who later crashed and burned, ScotinCrimea comes to mind...
it's a harsh world
the OP should get a lesson and hit the reset button and next time not make this mistake
she failed his test - how much is she willing to risk for this experience, and how "accommodating" is she...
but he passed hers (is he a good donkey, yes he is!)

ya see folks
this is the result of 20 yr of out thinking Russians on a personal and professional level...
and it's why they pay me the "big bucks" here
do you have a Russian woman problem in your neighborhood?
who ya gonna call!
"Russ Busters"!!! I ain't afraid of no Russian!

good luck dewd, but you must be a "smooth criminal" if you want to deal with Russians and not get gobbled up like you just did
is any of what I'm saying beginning to make sense to you
I'm tryin to teach you survival skills here man
it begins with your attitude
the fact that you've already lost control and aren't the one steering this is a big mistake
the problem is you're used to hunting a different species of woman
and you don't understand how you hunt a Russian woman
but she knows EXACTLY how to play you and you fell for it hook line and sinker (naive American)
as I tell everyone in this adventure, the fault is not in our stars, but in ourselves,
learn from this rookie move and wise up if you want to play in this ball field..







 

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 18, 2019, 09:08:33 PM
No, I agree, it generally is not sane. 


The most noble thing for the woman to do would be to book and pay for her own accommodation.  As that's not happening, this is a good option.  Only the OP knows if he is willing to take the risk.


This post is composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2019, 08:52:54 AM
"Again, how many women went on holiday with you to share a bed having never met you in person before the trip?  "

I didn't meet FSU women this way
I went in person and went out on my own to recruit partners... (still best way IMHO, but few have the resources required)
I debate the point with you that "they've never met"
if they haven't spent a lot of time on Skype with each other then that's a big mistake, so I "assume" perhaps incorrectly that they have
based on extensive skype contact they should both have some idea of "will she or won't she" BEFORE they planned the trip!!!
and the trip should only proceed if there's a "positive" feeling about this...
seems to me someone may have acted prematurely...

I assume the OP met this woman through an agency or social media
so she's LOOKING for what he's SELLING...
isn't the end goal of her endeavor to have sex with a foreign man as well (obviously more than that)
so if the end goal is to consummate this relationship, why separate rooms
and if she's so worried about this issue, then why go at all? (silly me, free trip to Spain, plus gifts)

logical inconsistency plus complete opposite of my travel experiences with FSU women
ALL of whom I'd known for a VERY short time...
my Pravda detector says scammer...




so the outcome of their trip together is either "something will happen" or "it won't"
if you want to maximize the likelihood that "something will happen" you pick the same room
and if YOU WANT TO BETTER GET TO KNOW THE PERSON you pick the same room
but, she picked separate room....

I mean if the OP wants to still go, fine...
but he's just gonna feel like an idiot...
but unfortunately, this is what it takes to learn
a 3 day holiday to Spain is a cheap lesson...

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: SteveInBoston on February 19, 2019, 09:30:18 AM
On my search I considered 4 women - 3 from Russia and 1 from Ukraine.  I skyped/video chatted with all 4.

With two, we progressed to the point where we would more than like have shared a bed on our first meeting.  With the other 2 it was nice but slower paced.  One actually traveled to Florida for vacation and for her daughter to spend time with her ex.  Unfortunately, I was traveling the other way to visit Miss Ukraine.

Anyway, with Miss Florida we would probably have had separate rooms/bedrooms.  It didn't mean she was a scammer, or not interested.  It's just that our online relationship didn't progress to an intimate level and we would need some time together to see how things went.

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2019, 09:46:40 AM
"With two, we progressed to the point where we would more than like have shared a bed on our first meeting."



it would seem logical to choose a meeting from one of these two, as opposed to selecting one of the two that didn't progress to this point...






"Anyway, with Miss Florida we would probably have had separate rooms/bedrooms.  It didn't mean she was a scammer, or not interested.  It's just that our online relationship didn't progress to an intimate level and we would need some time together to see how things went."




I totally see that possibility, and with that circumstance, you'd either give it more time or move on

if you take the information you just posted, and combine with what I posted
then I hope the OP can "see the light"

either "get the feeling" that's being discussed here or bail out because there is none...
you either acted prematurely or she's a scammer, either way you have a "problem"

hard for me to tell, you provide too few clues even for a trained sleuth
so more clues, how much do you skype, what do you talk about?





Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 19, 2019, 10:01:04 AM
Is too much emphasis being placed on whether or not there will be sex during this couples first get together?

For many persons, men and women, sex is not a really big deal.  OK and even nice, but not the 'end-all.'

I saw the number 3 days together somewhere above.
Three days is really not that long to go without sex.
If if were a week or more, that would be a different story.

One of my Aunts was a breeder of costly dogs (don't remember the breed) way back when.
She had the male.
The female's owners would bring their dogs to my Aunt.
She would put them in separate cages and place the cages next to each other for an hour or so, before she let them out to do their thing.
She said it was best to give them a little bit of time to become acquainted.
That hour was in dog time.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2019, 10:50:34 AM
“is too much emphasis being placed on whether or not there will be sex during this couples first get together?

For many persons, men and women, sex is not a really big deal.  OK and even nice, but not the 'end-all.'”



WHAT???   WHAT???   no really... WHAT???

I can think of nothing more amazing than the first time I saw a naked Ukrainian woman!

I said, “Babooshka, please put a robe on when you come out of the bathroom” (I was 9 at the time!)  haha

but seriously, the first naked Ukrainian woman I ever saw had the most amazing female physical form that I had seen either in person or in pictures

flawless skin, big blue eyes, light brown nearly blond hair, angelic OMG face
perfect muscle tone on abs, legs and buttocks, large breasts with large areola and erect nipples
shaved AND waxed genitalia
seriously, the most erotic looking woman I had ever seen in my entire life!!!!
and the eye contact and facial expressions
she made when she "presented" herself to me
I had never, never seen anything else like it...
I am still enslaved to it...

so noobs listen to uncle krimster
when y’all go to Ukraine, one of two things will happen...
either you’ll see what I saw
or you won’t
now y’all just have to ask yourselves just one question
do you want to see it, or not?
well DO YA?



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 19, 2019, 10:59:41 AM
I know how women think.  It's nothing about being a "good" girl.  I think asking for 2 rooms is practical, from both their perspectives.  If it turns out they are compatible, the second room will sit unused after a period.  If they are not compatible, then two rooms will look like a genius request.

Again, how many women went on holiday with you to share a bed having never met you in person before the trip? 

Yes, there is a risk she is a scammer, but there are other plausible reasons for asking for a separate room.

This post was composed without the aid of google.

You know how Western Women think ;) - and how Western Men think, you won't like me saying that but I feel that it is true here.

Western Women will see it as you described, Western Men will see it as a WW will be extremely unlikely to want to share a room having never met before and to even advance such would give out bad signals to her. This is how we have been brought up and socialised in the west.

When the girl I was messaging over a year ago now said to me in a message that we were sharind a one bed apartment together after I ahd just messaged her and video chatted to her once maybe twice I was astounded and didn't know what the wtf was going on until I was assured by a forum member (not Krimster) that said girl was hot for me. Now that would NEVER have happened in the west.

The first girl I met in Kiev on starting out on this venture conversely insisted I get her a single room in the hotel. Fortuntely prices were cheap then so it didn't cost me a lot. To me at the time it made sense as this is the normal expectation in the west to have separate rooms if never met in person before. Yet as we all know now Romance never occurred, there was one brief moment where it might have if I pressed but I was oblivious to FSU ways at the time. She had essentially gone there just with the intention of getting out the dire state Mariupol is in for a bit of respite and with the hope of an all expenses paid get away seeing some of the things she like - performing arts/classical music stuff. She went there with little intention of a relationship so I was essentially being played. I don't think she was a bad or insincere girl but that it is just the way out there for many women to mess around like this. She was actually a pleasant girl to be around and reasonably attractive.

So I go along with what Krimster says, its odds on he is being play, quite how bad who knows. Its concievable that it may end up in a relationship but the chances aren't good. Essentailly she is likely going out there with the intent to play the guy. She may turn out to be a pleasnt person and not an insincere scammer in the worst possible way but in a way it is concievably a holiday scam.

Personally though I think as said before that DC should still definately go. For the sake of three days the experience will be invaluable. All my experiences have allowed me to learn what the game is out there. I don't think its possible to fathom what people on here are talking about just sitting at the keyboard and backing out of potentially but great decisions, he needs some context to relate to for the future.

All of us guys looking for a girl in the FSU are playing Russian Roulette here. Krimster is a great guy and knows of old what comes up in such a game and how to handle FSW. I have not handled FSW well in the past and have made mistakes but like to think that I have learned so I can not stuff up the hand I am dealt next time. I think DC will learn a lot out of this encounter too.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 19, 2019, 11:35:23 AM
" Krimster is a great guy and knows of old what comes up in such a game and how to handle FSW"

thank you for the endorsement!!!!
I would like to say that you also are a great guy, but ummm...
haha kidding, dewd we like you so MUCH here in Texas
that we have OFFICIALLY renamed all long narrow excavations in the state as "Trenches" in your honor govner!!!

part dva
BTW, dcdewd
if you're still planning on goin
then if I were you, I'd go there with an "ace up my sleeve"

yup, look up "burandanga” including how to buy some
bring it with you
what you do with it is up to you and ONLY you will ever know...
but, if this woman is scamming you
then karma can be a REAL bitch ummm hmmmm....

who ya gonna call?
Russ Busters!




Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 19, 2019, 01:58:25 PM
You know how Western Women think ;) - and how Western Men think, you won't like me saying that but I feel that it is true here.


I've lived with an FSUM for over 30 years.  So, I am fairly certain I know how men from Russia/Ukraine think, as well.


I lived cheek to jowl with FSUW for half a decade, and correspond with many, so I am fairly certain I know how FSUW think as well.  The notion that an FSUW of integrity will jump into bed with a man she has never met, in person, is far fetched.

Quote
When the girl I was messaging over a year ago now said to me in a message that we were sharind a one bed apartment together after I ahd just messaged her and video chatted to her once maybe twice I was astounded and didn't know what the wtf was going on until I was assured by a forum member (not Krimster) that said girl was hot for me. Now that would NEVER have happened in the west.


Was she?  Or was she looking for (a) a passport; (b) someone to buy her a vacation and/or clothing.


You forget.  I have relatives in Ukraine, as does my husband.  Tons of them.  Not one, other than the better half, is married to a Westerner,  If you asked them if they'd be willing to share a bed with a man they'd been messaging online, all but one, who is of rather dubious moral character, would look at you as if you'd just landed from another plantet. 

Quote
So I go along with what Krimster says, its odds on he is being play,
krimster's experience was with women he'd actually met face to face.  He never arranged vacations with women he'd never actually met in person. 


Your view that people are somehow fundamentally different in the most basic of human interactions is part of your problem.  You are idealizing FSUW, but at the same time, viewing them as "easy".  They are, in the end, no different from women world over.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 19, 2019, 02:11:37 PM

I've lived with an FSUM for over 30 years.  So, I am fairly certain I know how men from Russia/Ukraine think, as well.


I lived cheek to jowl with FSUW for half a decade, and correspond with many, so I am fairly certain I know how FSUW think as well.  The notion that an FSUW of integrity will jump into bed with a man she has never met, in person, is far fetched.


Was she?  Or was she looking for (a) a passport; (b) someone to buy her a vacation and/or clothing.


You forget.  I have relatives in Ukraine, as does my husband.  Tons of them.  Not one, other than the better half, is married to a Westerner,  If you asked them if they'd be willing to share a bed with a man they'd been messaging online, all but one, who is of rather dubious moral character, would look at you as if you'd just landed from another plantet. 
krimster's experience was with women he'd actually met face to face.  He never arranged vacations with women he'd never actually met in person. 


Your view that people are somehow fundamentally different in the most basic of human interactions is part of your problem.  You are idealizing FSUW, but at the same time, viewing them as "easy".  They are, in the end, no different from women world over.


This post was composed without the aid of google.

Even if we accept that, question remains why do we not hear of western women jumping straight into bed with men?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 19, 2019, 02:35:03 PM
Lots of WW jump straight into bed with WM. 

My male cousins had no problems finding women willing to jump their bones within hours of meeting them when they were young.  None of them married those women, but finding them was no problem. 

One cousin, in his forties, bedded a girl of 19 that he met in a bar the first night he met her.  This was about three years ago.  He saw her for a few months, but concluded she was "wearing him out", so he dumped her.  His next partner, the woman he is still with (but not living with), is about 12 years younger than him.

Our son gets hit on all the time when he goes out, but he isn't interested in putting notches on his bedpost.

I would hazard a guess men here could tell you they had no problem bedding WW, if that was what they wanted.

Just because WW don't hop into bed with you, or you don't seek them out, doesn't mean it doesn't happen routinely.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 19, 2019, 02:41:37 PM
she was "wearing him out", so he dumped her. 

Couldn't he seek a 'Ремонт?'
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 19, 2019, 02:47:37 PM
He is a chemical free kind of guy.  >:D


There's a reason young women prefer young men.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 19, 2019, 02:59:32 PM
There's a reason young women prefer young men.

We watch re-runs of the Fraiser TV series.

On a recent episode, Fraiser remembers that (25 years ago) when he was 17 he had sex several times with his piano teacher who was 20 or so years older than himself.
He had expressed his love for her, and now he is feeling guilty that he went off to Harvard without even saying goodbye to her.

So to atone, he goes by her house to apologize.
She said it was no problem and that she had always felt guilty that he was cheated out of some music lessons.
She is still quite good looking in her mid 60s, so he asks if they could go get some coffee.

Just then, the door bell rings and her date for the night . . . a late 20s guy shows up.

She tells Fraiser:  "I didn't care for 40 year old men when I was with you . . . and I still don't."
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on February 20, 2019, 12:36:43 PM
Wow, this has taken on a completely different life! I have to agree with Boethius  on this, I don't blame my Russian Lady for wanting a two bedroom. Hike I want sort of want a two bedroom too, people can have wierd sleeping habits, I figure may day three after we get to know each other maybe share a room. Regardless of that, I have tried to subtitly say I don't want to be on the off the ppl site. But she has said she has grown accustomed to having a physical person translate the messages says it is better than the auto translators. But I have told her I want to start using Skype or something else and left it up to her to decide if she wants to continue to communicate with me.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 20, 2019, 01:02:37 PM
Wow, this has taken on a completely different life! I have to agree with Boethius  on this, I don't blame my Russian Lady for wanting a two bedroom. Hike I want sort of want a two bedroom too, people can have wierd sleeping habits, I figure may day three after we get to know each other maybe share a room. Regardless of that, I have tried to subtitly say I don't want to be on the off the ppl site. But she has said she has grown accustomed to having a physical person translate the messages says it is better than the auto translators. But I have told her I want to start using Skype or something else and left it up to her to decide if she wants to continue to communicate with me.

Yeah I wouldn't push out the boat anymore on that one or you might be vacationing in Spain alone, lol. Don't think there is any point making my a fuss now over it as probably not too long till your holiday now, just learn whatever there is to learn. Course there is a chance it may all come good for you so just see how it goes. When is your holiday again? Somewhere around April time was it?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 20, 2019, 01:38:52 PM
"have tried to subtitly say I don't want to be on the off the ppl site. But she has said she has grown accustomed to having a physical person translate the messages says it is better than the auto translators."

RED ALERT!!!!  RED ALERT!!!!

this is what the agencies coach them to say
and the EXACT OPPOSITE of how a Russian woman normally behaves, they are loathe to let "their man" spend even one kopec unnecessarily
so what's her commission per letter?
you do know she gets a "piece of the action" right?
don't you see how you're being played?

it's not "if" you're going to get scammed or not in Spain...
no...no...no...
you're ALREADY being scammed!

Russ Busters!!!!
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 20, 2019, 02:30:06 PM
That's honestly what I thought the odds are of what is happening here Krim. I still think it's best for DC to follow through and learn from it. I don't think he'll have his eyelids fully cranked open unless he follows through on this. I think he can still have a good time in Spain regardless as even women that aren't all that sincere can be good fun. He just needs to avoid buying any expensive jewellery etc for her on holiday as it will be a pointless expense especially if he isn't getting laid. Since DC is quite wealthy and it's just a weekend the damage shouldn't be too big.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 20, 2019, 02:57:29 PM
and remember, according to Spanish law, it's not rape if she's a scammer!!  (true!  look it up!! you can't say anything that isn't true on the internet!)
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 20, 2019, 03:04:45 PM
There is a chance that she feels more comfortable with a translator, but in 99% of cases, if a translator is being paid, the woman is getting a cut of the translation fee, or the translator is a personal friend.


This post has been composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Hammer2722 on February 20, 2019, 03:18:20 PM
If this woman were truly serious about establishing a relationship with you, she would have agreed to Skype always. I guess the money she gets from the PPL is more important. I suggest you move on and find another. Meeting her in Spain will not end well for you I predict.
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on February 21, 2019, 12:36:28 PM
Again, how many women went on holiday with you to share a bed having never met you in person before the trip? 

Yes, there is a risk she is a scammer, but there are other plausible reasons for asking for a separate room.

That's the primary reason that most of us recommend visiting her in person in
or near her city. If things don't work out, she goes on with her life and he tries
to see if he can meet some other girls and they aren't stuck together in a foreign
vacation spot.

His employer doesn't allow that so he has to do something else.

I think the guy needs to find out NOW if his employer would have a problem with
him marrying a girl from this country and what other countries that his employer
might have a problem with.

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on February 21, 2019, 08:20:22 PM
I have decided I have spent enough money in this venture so I am going to wrap things up with my Russian Lady friend. I got a email back from her that she does not want a two room suite, she wanted completely separate rooms altogether. Which I guess I cant blame her, and she is willing to pay for the room herself, but fortunately I was going to reserve at a closed resort, were I can get a suite for 7 days everything included for $1000. I am sure some of the US veterans on here will know what I am talking about. What did me in with her was the persistence of staying on the PPL site.

I went ahead and spent $30 bucks on a month memberships with R__cupid.com and already found two ladies on there willing to just communicate via email both extremely beautiful. So off I go again on typing emails.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: krimster2 on February 21, 2019, 09:01:51 PM
wise move...
an even wiser one is to pick Ukraine over Russia...

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on February 22, 2019, 01:02:56 AM
  But I have told her I want to start using Skype or something else and left it up to her to decide if she wants to continue to communicate with me.

I don't understand, I thought you wrote here previously that you speak mainly with this girl on Skype and only use ppl site for a letter once per week?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: DCcowboy on February 22, 2019, 02:35:11 AM
I don't understand, I thought you wrote here previously that you speak mainly with this girl on Skype and only use ppl site for a letter once per week?
we do, but she constantly asked about when I was going to write her, and she misses my letters.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 22, 2019, 11:18:16 AM
we do, but she constantly asked about when I was going to write her, and she misses my letters.

Yeah, misses the money from them, lol. In that case I think you did right to ditch her as that's an even bigger Red Flag.

I'm pretty certain having read that, that she would have tried to offload the room cost on you, or perhaps not even turned up.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: GenMish on February 23, 2019, 10:00:18 AM
I am sorry this didn't work out for DC, just two things to add as she might not be a scammer
1) She was willing to meet in Moscow, but DC couldn't go there
2) I understand the two room issue, as fine Russian Women want respect more than anything else, especially to the man she is going to marry
 

I got an interpreter in Moscow that is awesome, his English is better than mine and his Russian is 10x better. He wont play the commission game, so you will learn pretty quick if translation is the issue. Just message me if you want his viber number
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 23, 2019, 10:39:03 AM
All I can say is what a load of tosh.  In my growing experience UK women mess you about 3rd date is sex and for the rest of the relationship supply of sex is a control measure.  F s u for some reason sex is a first date conclusion with the woman wanting more sex than the man can physically supply.  Dating agencies I've really noticed usa men would rather pay someone to do the spade work and get all upset when they get conned.  I see usa men whining into their phones at the airport for someone to help them out rather than sorting themselves.  Ukraine  is one of the great frontiers if you kick arse but if you go in all westernized you deserve to get ripped off.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 23, 2019, 10:41:21 AM
If it's not what's app or Viber video calls you never even got started.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 23, 2019, 02:29:00 PM
I am sorry this didn't work out for DC, just two things to add as she might not be a scammer
1) She was willing to meet in Moscow, but DC couldn't go there
2) I understand the two room issue, as fine Russian Women want respect more than anything else, especially to the man she is going to marry.

There might be that but DC would never really know if he was being played or was a matter of respect if he did go through with the whole two room thing. After first meet he would be looking for things to get more cosy for the second meet and indeed her to be into him for there to be a second date. If she still insisted on two rooms then I would say she is playing him.

The thing is if he had travelled to Moscow she might have played him in a different way. DC came up with Spain as he couldn't do Moscow so that may have just played straight into her hands.

There's probably a few modest women in Ukraine but I think more often than not it's an excuse that is used by girls wishing to play guys. Not saying that they are doing sex with local guys all the time but I think as has been said before on here they tend to be less hung up on sex issues there.

I think what James has said is right. DC needs to learn as he goes as most of us do, what means what. If he can't go to Russia then maybe he can go to Ukraine? Ukraine is now Russia's enemy and vice versa and pro western aligned. I think asking a girl to go to Spain is just setting her off on the wrong path to begin with, never mind him. If not Ukraine the perhaps a country just over the border in the EU.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 23, 2019, 04:48:45 PM
F s u for some reason sex is a first date conclusion

You are making far too broad a statement. 

I asked two FSUM about this, one married in his early forties, the other is now in his early thirties, unmarried. 

Their views - this may be true of women in their mid thirties and above, because generally, they are not sought by local men, and there is a shortage of men starting for that age group because of alcoholism.  So, they are sex deprived.  But for the most part, a three date rule holds in Ukraine as well, sometimes even longer.  The other thing they both said is that they would not take a woman who pushes them to bed on a first date seriously as marriage material.

There was one FSUW posting here occasionally, who posted she slept with her husband the first day he arrived in Russia.  They had been corresponding, and calling (pre Skype) for six months, and she felt she knew him well.  On a RW forum, she has boasted of her "exciting" lover.  But she's not willing to leave the boring husband for the lover, because the husband offers her material comfort.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 23, 2019, 10:23:56 PM
I had sex with approximately one third of the FSU women that I met.

Of those, about 25% was sex on first date.
65% or so was sex on dates 2, 3 or 4.
10% was sex on date 5 or more.

Despite the dangerous connotation regarding women who have sex on first date, there were several in that category who were very desirable in most all my criteria.  I wouldn't of all hesitated in marrying most of them due to the sex on first date situation.  It's just for most, there was one or more killer characteristic.

e.g. Too volatile, secret smoking, too much drinking, excessively argumentative, snoring, lazy regarding cooking, cleaning, etc., etc.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 24, 2019, 12:09:07 AM
It's all down to personal choice.  Looking back apart from a girl when I was 19 every woman  I dated was sex first night .  I don't judge a woman at all by first night sex it's what she's like to live around that counts.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2019, 01:37:15 AM
I'm not providing any personal opinion on when partners should, or should not, have sex.  I just gave a couple of UM's views on the subject, and posted to dispel the view that sex on a first date is a default in Ukraine. 


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on February 24, 2019, 06:50:32 AM

10% was sex on date 5 or more.


She must have been special!   Either that, you were having a bad week.   ;)

Without tabulating and calculating, my statistics were about the same as yours.   And they are about the same as with American women. 

The reason why sex did not occur with 67% is because of the lack of connection.  The attraction built up over countless Skype conversations could disappear during a cup of tea.  Perhaps we would have gone to bed, yet I had no interest.  If I were a younger man, I may have relented to my hormones and betrayed the purpose of my trip.       

I concur the women with whom sex happened early (first or second day) were women with whom compatibility was apparent and strong.   Almost all the women I dated were in their 30s and 40s, so they were experienced.  Also, I assert that sincere women who list themselves on a dating site catering to foreign men are adventurous by nature. 

For women with whom sex happened later, I feel they just needed more time to be sure, yet they did not say goodbye on the first dates before convincing me they really wanted to see me again.   
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on February 24, 2019, 07:17:20 AM

Their views - this may be true of women in their mid thirties and above, because generally, they are not sought by local men, and there is a shortage of men starting for that age group because of alcoholism.  So, they are sex deprived.


Maybe this is the case for the general population.  Yet this is not entirely true in Russia for professional women based on my wife and the experiences of her friends. 

A couple of her unmarried friends in their 50s have had long, continuing relationships with younger RM.   An older woman can provide as you say "material comfort."   Others have a normal age relationship.  Others, such as a couple of her widowed friends, have no relationships.   

My wife in her 40s had plenty of attention from prominent RM in her age range.  One asked her to marry him at a very public occasion.   He had the means to provide her with luxury.   The problem, she felt nothing for him, so she declined politely.

I met some FSUW who said they avoided FSUM because they are "bad."  After spending time with these women, I feel their lack of attention derived from their faults as opposed to the faults of the men.  WARNING:  Men be careful of FSUW who claim all FSUM are bad. 

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 24, 2019, 11:52:41 AM
WARNING:  Men be careful of FSUW who claim all FSUM are bad.
Same as when we say beware of WM who claim that WW are bad.

Note:  I have never said that WW are bad.  My reason for going FSUW had to do with using economic advantage to achieve my desired qualities with a FSUW what I couldn't achieve with WW.

i.e. slender; age still interested in lots of sex.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: LAman on February 24, 2019, 12:11:42 PM
Same as when we say beware of WM who claim that WW are bad.

Note:  I have never said that WW are bad.  My reason for going FSUW had to do with using economic advantage to achieve my desired quantities with FSUW what I couldn't achieve with WW.

i.e. slender; age still interested in lots of sex.


Fixed that for you...….let's be completely truthful!! ))
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on February 24, 2019, 12:47:20 PM

My reason for going FSUW had to do with using economic advantage to achieve my desired qualities with a FSUW what I couldn't achieve with WW.

i.e. slender; age still interested in lots of sex.

Slender, young and sexy American women for older dudes can be found with some luck and work.  However, something invariably proved wrong between the ears.   

         -    They were stupid,  the type of "stupid" that  can't be fixed and would be an embarrassment in social gatherings.
 
         -    They suffered from some undisclosed mental condition that made getting close impossible and would strain happiness.

And if one passed the "tween the ears" test, she behaved more entitled  than a Russian princess plus wanted a baby.  I like kids, even young kids, but not ready for diapers, sleepless nights, pussy whipped stay at home Dad.  Next would come pee wee soccer practices or recitals where I must smile even though she can not hit a note.   It would have been a disaster.   
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on February 24, 2019, 12:51:52 PM
In addition, we don't necessarily have an economic advantage.  Some RM have a lot of jingle in their pocket.  And some RW have enough money combined with an independent nature to not need a husband. 
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on February 24, 2019, 02:04:12 PM
In addition, we don't necessarily have an economic advantage.  Some RM have a lot of jingle in their pocket.  And some RW have enough money combined with an independent nature to not need a husband.

Good practice calls for using 'normal' situation in a discussion, not outliers.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on February 24, 2019, 02:34:19 PM
The latest 'stats' by long-term members are pretty meaningless

Depends on the lady / chap / age / experience and how long you had communicated before, etc., etc,,

I'm very much a WOVO chap and if I met someone - we already had 'connected' - hence we were meeting -  thus what some call 'success' ensued ...

I was NEVER near that ratio with Western ladies - but I was a lot younger and greener

I have heard the expression "we are adults" from the mouths of not a few FSU ladies

Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 24, 2019, 07:06:31 PM
Same as when we say beware of WM who claim that WW are bad.

If FSW say FSM are bad it doesn't necessarily mean the converse is true. Different societies,I think here in the west WW really are messed up, not all but most of those on western dating sites are.

I get the point that some FSW will not be chosen by FSM because of a character flaw or whatever and that some of those FSW will point to the bad FSM around. There are of course some bad FSM and those that treat their women badly, if/when they have women. There are also those that are drunks, unfit in some way to be rateable, but yes it generally means other women have beaten the ones complaining about FSM. There are also FSW who will stick with a bad FSM rather than be single.

On the whole though I would say even if the FSW who are left still beat he leftovers of WW on the western dating circuit hands down. A girl with one problem as in the FSU is usually better than a girl with many problems as in the UK.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Jamesukjames on February 24, 2019, 10:19:43 PM
In reply to trench .  I think many people lack a moral compass.  Fsu men seem to have affairs when married with relatively few repercussions.   Western men on the other hand face the wrath of their family society and the legal profession where as the women are deemed to have been driven to it by a poor quality husband.  So basically fsu women and wm are the under dogs in our societies at least in marriage and hence are well suited to each other if they can appreciate each other properly.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on February 24, 2019, 11:51:27 PM
Infidelity is the second leading cause of divorce in Ukraine.  The first is alcoholism.  So, UM don't have affairs "with few repercussions". 


Ukrainians, by and large, are only 1 to 3 generations removed from the village.  Notions of infidelity are fairly strict among peasants.  The idea that UM can just "get away" with infidelity is mistaken.


The idea that men are some sort of "underdog" in the Western world, where men still predominate in politics and in business, is ludicrous.  It's just unrealistic and easily refuted. 


In Canada, adultery has no bearing on custody or division of assets.  It means nothing, for either party.  Women typically receive payments because in our feminized world where men are the underdogs, men still outearn women,  In Canada, men earn $1.00 for every $0.87 earned by men.  I believe it is higher in the US.  Were women outearning men, custody payments would be reversed.  I suspect were you to actually pull the laws, and the statistics, you'd find the same throughout most of the Western world.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on February 25, 2019, 01:23:47 AM
If FSW say FSM are bad it doesn't necessarily mean the converse is true. Different societies,I think here in the west WW really are messed up, not all but most of those on western dating sites are.

I get the point that some FSW will not be chosen by FSM because of a character flaw or whatever and that some of those FSW will point to the bad FSM around. There are of course some bad FSM and those that treat their women badly, if/when they have women. There are also those that are drunks, unfit in some way to be rateable, but yes it generally means other women have beaten the ones complaining about FSM. There are also FSW who will stick with a bad FSM rather than be single.

On the whole though I would say even if the FSW who are left still beat he leftovers of WW on the western dating circuit hands down. A girl with one problem as in the FSU is usually better than a girl with many problems as in the UK.

Trench

with your VERY limited track record - why do you feel 'able' to post utter tripe about the VERY few women you  have actually 'bonded' with ? ( Either in the UK or FSU ...)

Until you get your own mysongistic issues sorted - you are in NO position to 'advise' or offer an 'opinion' ..You can't get close enough to a lass for long enough to understand 'em (( 



Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on February 25, 2019, 03:44:12 AM
In reply to trench .  I think many people lack a moral compass.  Fsu men seem to have affairs when married with relatively few repercussions.   Western men on the other hand face the wrath of their family society and the legal profession where as the women are deemed to have been driven to it by a poor quality husband.  So basically fsu women and wm are the under dogs in our societies at least in marriage and hence are well suited to each other if they can appreciate each other properly.

Completely agree.
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: Brianbinny on March 06, 2019, 04:06:06 AM
We are planning our first longer trip in our new to us motorhome 2015 Fleetwood Flair and want to try a few places in southeast California and southwest Arizona.  Any favorites out there?
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: msmob on March 06, 2019, 04:33:48 AM
Almost completely  disagree with James' latest in a string of generalisations..

Think about it.  Your are suggesting FSU women are tolerant of extra maritial affairs....because they are used to it?

No.  No   no
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Trenchcoat on March 06, 2019, 06:45:16 AM
In a poor economy women tend towards the men that can provide. Many FSW married to a FSM will put up with a man having an affair if she feels confronting him could end their marriage/relationship. Remember in the FSU men also don't get hammered as much in the divorce courts as here. In Ukraine what a man bought before marriage is his after as it was bought outside the marriage. On top off that there is the better perceived societal standing of women who are married.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on March 06, 2019, 07:43:12 AM
Many FSW married to a FSM will put up with a man having an affair if she feels confronting him could end their marriage/relationship.

WRONG! 

First, RW are not timid, weak, compliant women.  They speak their mind.  Not just about the emotional betrayal, but the probable expenditure of money on the other woman.   

Also, with whom is the wayward husband having an affair/dalliance?   Unless you believe the agency hype that women far outnumber men, the answer is many of "the other woman" are married.  Who is screwing whom?     
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on March 06, 2019, 11:38:05 AM
Quote from: Trenchcoat on Today at 08:45:16 AM
Many FSW married to a FSM will put up with a man having an affair if she feels confronting him could end their marriage/relationship.


WRONG! 

First, RW are not timid, weak, compliant women.  They speak their mind.  Not just about the emotional betrayal, but the probable expenditure of money on the other woman.   

Also, with whom is the wayward husband having an affair/dalliance?   Unless you believe the agency hype that women far outnumber men, the answer is many of "the other woman" are married.  Who is screwing whom?     

Gator, I think you are wrong.

I know from firsthand conversations with many FSUW that they will put up with their husband having an affair.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on March 06, 2019, 12:30:45 PM

Gator, I think you are wrong.

I know from firsthand conversations with many FSUW that they will put up with their husband having an affair.

I rarely discussed this topic with RW, so maybe you have a more scientific poll.  ML, passive resistance can take many forms.  Although many wives may not confront their cheating husbands, yet I assert many such wives will get even in their own way.   

Question:  Are RM only having extramarital sex with unmarried women?   If infidelity is as common as generally accepted, there are not enough willing single women.   
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: ML on March 06, 2019, 12:42:17 PM
I rarely discussed this topic with RW, so maybe you have a more scientific poll.  ML, passive resistance can take many forms.  Although many wives may not confront their cheating husbands, yet I assert many such wives will get even in their own way.   

Question:  Are RM only having extramarital sex with unmarried women?   If infidelity is as common as generally accepted, there are not enough willing single women.

Don't know if the 'other woman' was married or single for most of the cases that women told me about.

But for two cases where I was told a lot of details, the 'other woman' was single (which covers divorced and widowed also).

For one of these cases, the woman told me that she accepted the affair up until the point she felt that her husband was really more in love with the other woman than he was with her and their children.  That was the tipping point.

In another case, the woman told me her husband was always after her to agree to have a threesome with another woman.

She knew that he had affairs before, and figured sooner or later he would have the threesome without her.

So she talked to a woman living in their building (whom talked a lot about sex with her) and the woman readily agreed to be the 3rd party.

Said she didn't much enjoy it . . . which I was disappointed to hear because otherwise I would have suggested it also !!!  :-)

Their marriage lasted quite some time after that, but they eventually divorced anyway over other issues.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Gator on March 06, 2019, 02:13:59 PM
So she talked to a woman living in their building (whom talked a lot about sex with her) and the woman readily agreed to be the 3rd party.

Said she didn't much enjoy it . . .


Sounds as if she was forced to do something she did not want to do.  Nice husband! 

A 3-way is a fantasy from our youth.  My two experiences were not good.  In one, I felt the women were regretting their decision.  In another, the women got into each other and there was little opportunity for me other than to encircle and work my ass off. 
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 06, 2019, 03:21:59 PM
I don't believe FSUM cheat more than do WM.  If there is any reason why couples stay together, beyond the reasons they do after infidelity in the West, it is because life in the FSU is, in most cases, economically harsher than in the West, so staying together is a sort of self preservation.

Trench overstates the case, as per usual, with his typical misogyny added for good measure.  FSUM are required, by Ukrainian law, and by Russian law, to pay alimony.  Judgments can be enforced by courts, so that a man's salary is cut at work, he doesn't even see the pay.  The problem, at least in Ukraine, is that so much of a person's income is earned off the books.  So typically, the maintenance received is minimal, if anything, and if not paid, not worth enforcing. 

Most FSUM are not coming into a marriage with significant assets, so that line of thinking is highly erroneous on Trench's part.  Yes, Russia and Ukraine are very macho societies.  However, the attitude toward women differs from the West, in some ways, very positively, and that is what he fails to understand.  His internalized misogyny will ensure he will never succeed in this venture, long term.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 01:17:11 PM
FSUM are required, by Ukrainian law, and by Russian law, to pay alimony. 
Judgments can be enforced by courts, so that a man's salary is cut at work, he doesn't even see the pay.  The problem, at least in Ukraine, is that so much of a person's income is earned off the books.  So typically, the maintenance received is minimal, if anything, and if not paid, not worth enforcing. 

All it takes is a bribe for the court to decide in favor of the briber.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:19:02 PM
That would be outliers. 


First, Ukraine is a civil law jurisdiction.  Child maintenance, i.e., the amount paid, is established by code.  Second, only contested divorces/maintenance would go before a judge.  Third, not every judge can be bribed, and for those that can be, the spouse would need to have the cash to do so.  Fourth, any decision can be appealed, and the appellate court cannot be bribed. 


I believe there are cases of bribery to reduce child support, but they would be the exceptions rather than the rule.  Most Ukrainians just do not have the amount of cash required to bribe a judge.  I also believe that this is another case of Ukrainians telling Westerners something that is untrue, or greatly exaggerated.


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: First trip to Russia
Post by: 2tallbill on March 07, 2019, 03:23:55 PM
That would be outliers. 

I only have one anecdotal example and it's from Russia and I don't want
to share it with the peanut gallery so I'll accept your opinion as more
knowledgeable than mine.
Title: Re: First trip to Russia
Post by: Boethius on March 07, 2019, 03:48:20 PM
I thought there has been a big crackdown on corruption in Russia over the past few years? 


I don't know personally, only from what I've read in newspapers.


Ukraine's courts were very corrupt right after the collapse, and in the few years thereafter.  They moved to far, far less corruption during the Yushchenko years, but I think the work for that was started under Kuchma.  Yanukovych reversed that, partly by appointing his own lackeys to the Supreme Court, which was truly independent since Kuchma's tenure.


This post was composed without the aid of google.