Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Odds and Ends => Topic started by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 12:57:05 AM

Title: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 12:57:05 AM
Wanna win, on Forex, today ?

Sell GBP ..

Every time this clueless woman opens her gob on the negotiations with the EU - for a UK audience -  our currency falls further...

Hands up which idiot voting to leave Europe believed we'd be saving money and better off ?

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/brexit-transition-period-final-eu-trade-deal-theresa-may?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=249236&subid=18584627&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2 (http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/23/brexit-transition-period-final-eu-trade-deal-theresa-may?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=249236&subid=18584627&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2)

"Prime minister surprises parliament and flies in face of calls from MPs and business groups for clarity"
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Mappy on October 24, 2017, 04:42:38 AM
I agree that Brexit is idiocy.  The same sort of mindless lashing  out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.

Nevertheless I suspect that the £ wont fall further.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BC on October 24, 2017, 08:02:15 AM
Yeah, sure is a 'fix something that ain't broke' scenario that's going to cost a bundle any way you look at it.  GBP squeezed by possible higher interest rates just so there's some headroom to try and recover after the deal/no deal breakup. Bad news for a couple years considering higher interest rates may not entice in the uncertain financial environment.  GBP parity with EUR is not far off at all.

Simply put, UK bit off a good bit more than can be masticated with the mouthful blame game just starting to spew.  EU would rather take a short-term hit than let exits seem simple for others.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: ML on October 24, 2017, 08:59:12 AM
Idiots in Spain are trying for an even worse outcome.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: kynrazor on October 24, 2017, 11:26:08 AM
Well politicians always need a scapegoat when things haven't been going well. What better way to make people "come together" than to blame the EU for all our misfortunes in the UK.

I sense nationalism on the rise globally.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 24, 2017, 12:27:43 PM
Problem lies in the political system/government set up. The US got it off quite well with each state being able to be different to others but still comfortable be part of one whole. Bother the EU & Spain got it wrong by try to centilise too much power & be overbearing. Back in the ninties & early part of this century most in the UK were in favour of the EU, I was - we were a member of a European organisation for our collective good. That changed though in recent years with the admission of eastern bloc countries and a move by the EU for greater integration. They moved away from a membership organisation and towards an overbearing, controlling government force aimed at centilising power. This along with the economic & asylum crises showed that they would rule poorly and convinced those remaining undecided's in the UK that it is best we left the EU. My only concern is that we continue to proceed under the misbelief that the EU is superior and we must go to then for the scraps they throw to us. Seeing ourselves as an inferior underling of the EU is doing us no good, we should get to the Brexit way before the two years is up and get this decided and on our way.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 02:30:22 PM
Idiots in Spain are trying for an even worse outcome.

Do you mean the Spanish idiots in Madrid or the idiots in Catalonia
who say we aren't in Spain, but sought confontation and found it?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 24, 2017, 03:01:39 PM
The same sort of mindless lashing  out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.



The pendulum swung hard to the left when Obama was president. I'm not surprised it swung hard to the right this time. That is happening in Europe in many places.


Spain, Italy and other major and minor nations are seeing nationalism rise and people want to breakaway from governments they feel aren't properly representing them.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_Europe


I don't think those in the UK should feel bad about Brexit. You can make your future better than the EU can. The way I see it, would it be better for America to join a union like a EU or remain independent? Certainly America is better off determining it's own future than to have a bunch of bureaucrats from other nations tell us what to do. UK can do the same, after all, you once were on top.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 03:09:21 PM
I agree that Brexit is idiocy.  The same sort of mindless lashing  out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.

Nevertheless I suspect that the £ wont fall further.

Well, it fell approx 0.3 Rouble v the GBP ((  Hardly earth shattering - but it WAS 121 for a day last year ))..Today back to 75



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: GQBlues on October 24, 2017, 03:36:20 PM
The same sort of mindless lashing  out by voters that has landed the US with an utter moron as its president.

LMAO! Trump had done more in a day than that useless hag you call your queen in a year.  :devil:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 03:38:42 PM

The pendulum swung hard to the left when Obama was president. I'm not surprised it swung hard to the right this time. That is happening in Europe in many places.





Er, BillyB

1/ UK - elected a right of centre govt, with the anti-EU nationalists losing all their representation and the Scots nationalist ( s.left of centre ) losing out to the sl.right govt - but the sl. right govt losing out to the Socialists ..

2/ France - elected a centrist President and thrashing the nationalist candidate in the head to head - and said nationalist party got whooped in the following parliamentary elections

3/ Germany - the centre right party won a forth term

That neatly covers the 3 biggest nations in Europe and tells us that you need to read up more... Germany and France have VERY pro EU leaders...The UK has a 'leader' who sat on the fence re 'brexit' - just deciding 'remain' was better, but happy to do a volte-face to become a weak PM, call an election and lose her majority - needing a N.Ireland party who will never allow a 'hard Brexit' and a physical border with an EU nation - Rep Ireland - to remain in power

Spain, Italy and other major and minor nations are seeing nationalism rise and people want to breakaway from governments they feel aren't properly representing them.

No...  if nationalism was so 'strong' you wouldn't see separatist movements... Catalonia was autonomous and they peak another language.  It's more a case of when the economy isn't so hot - the places that feel they are supporting the regions get 'fed up'


I don't think those in the UK should feel bad about Brexit.

More bed-time reading for BillyB is clearly necessary...

'We' in the UK were sold 'Brexit' would see savings of £350 million a week... that was $542.5 million before Brexit looked like never winning ( Feb '16) and now it's $455 million - the Dollar is 'only' 20 percent stronger... the Euro and some other currencies are 30 - 50 percent stronger

Ooops, the pro-Brexit govt announced that uncertainty over Brexit meant we were 30£ million a week WORSE off, already - plus food costs have rocketed - due to the fact we import SO much

You can make your future better than the EU can.

'Sure' we can - we can negotiate far better trade deals as an island of 70 million rather than a trading block bigger than the USA :))

You sure are doing well, BillyB ...

The way I see it, would it be better for America to join a union like a EU or remain independent? Certainly America is better off determining it's own future than to have a bunch of bureaucrats from other nations tell us what to do. UK can do the same, after all, you once were on top.

'We' were falling from the top from the moment we lost the USA, Canada, South Africa.....  LONG before we joined the EEC, than became the EU.

What a good time to be a minnow as America has a nutter like the Russians as leader seeking to 'protect' home businesses - thus promoting inefficiency and most of us know such protectionism tends to create the conditions for wars...

Trade between nations is good - it creates inter-dependencies and partnerships

This is 101 stuff, why is it SO hard for some folks to grasp ?

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 24, 2017, 03:42:22 PM
LMAO! Trump had done more in a day than that useless hag you call your queen in a year.  :devil:

If you mean tweeting bollox, you might have a point !   He certainly has made America Grate

The Queen is head of state - but in a purely ceremonial sense.

Now if - by 'useless hag'  - you meant Theresa May, you'd have a point....   Called an election, to get a mandate and lost her overall majority ..  :ROFL:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Mappy on October 24, 2017, 03:47:55 PM
@Billy that was back in the days when we ran the whole of India with six men and a bicycle, and had a nice sideline going on your side of the Atlantic too, until they decided to dump our tea in cold water (something the US forces me to re-enact myself whenever I order a cup of tea there).

Things are different nowadays, and economic isolationism offers us  a poor future.

Obama was an impressive figurehead for the US and hugely improved your country's standing around the world.  Now you've sunk back below GW Bush levels.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: JayH on October 24, 2017, 04:25:07 PM
If you mean tweeting bollox, you might have a point !   He certainly has made America Grate

The Queen is head of state - but in a purely ceremonial sense.

Now if - by 'useless hag'  - you meant Theresa May, you'd have a point....   Called an election, to get a mandate and lost her overall majority ..  :ROFL:

Moby -- you are responding to a clown that still thinks the sun shines out of Trump's arse !



BTW -- if anyone was in doubt about Brexit -- reading Trenchcoat's support for it should tell everyone it is an idiotic idea !
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: GQBlues on October 24, 2017, 04:31:25 PM
If you mean tweeting bollox, you might have a point !   He certainly has made America Grate

Yup. At election, Industrial Index was at 17K, ascended right after election and it closed at 23.4 today.

Quote
The Queen(sic) is head of state - but in a purely ceremonial sense.

Purely *ceremonial* sense? WTF is that?!? Ceremonial sense. More like you guys had been getting knocked over your skulls for centuries you are no longer capable of distinguishing what 'sense' actually means.

Quote
Now if - by 'useless hag'  - you meant Theresa May, you'd have a point....   Called an election, to get a mandate and lost her overall majority ..  :ROFL:

Normal day for the UK.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: GQBlues on October 24, 2017, 04:35:19 PM
Moby -- you are responding to a clown that still thinks the sun shines out of Trump's arse !

Speaking of Trump's arse, didn't he tele-bomb your PM as one of the first thing he's done, and he now has your PM brown-nosing him these days.

How'bout dem apples, eh?


Russian collusion - Dossier anyone?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 24, 2017, 04:59:00 PM
1/ UK - elected a right of centre govt, with the anti-EU nationalists losing all their representation and the Scots nationalist ( s.left of centre ) losing out to the sl.right govt - but the sl. right govt losing out to the Socialists ..

2/ France - elected a centrist President and thrashing the nationalist candidate in the head to head - and said nationalist party got whooped in the following parliamentary elections

3/ Germany - the centre right party won a forth term



Reading the news you want to hear but ignoring the rest. The majority voted for Brexit. That should tell you something about what is going on in your country. 1/8th of Germany's parliament is controlled by Neo Nazis and on the rise. The extreme far right came in second place in the French presidential election. You better wake up to reality. Things may get explosive in Europe again.


http://www.newsweek.com/extremism-europe-rise-fringe-angela-merkel-670657


The left in the UK shouldn't be crybabies, graciously accept the loss and give Brexit a chance. Instead of fighting Brexit every step of the way and blaming the right, how about doing your part to help UK come out of this situation the best way they can?



Trade between nations is good - it creates inter-dependencies and partnerships

This is 101 stuff, why is it SO hard for some folks to grasp ?



America is doing fine without having to join a body such as the EU to tell us what to do. You can create your own partnerships and trade Unions and live well. Your currency you're worried about falling depends on how much your citizens are willing to work and make it strong. Fighting amongst each other isn't helping.


@Billy that was back in the days when we ran the whole of India with six men and a bicycle, and had a nice sideline going on your side of the Atlantic too, until they decided to dump our tea in cold water (something the US forces me to re-enact myself whenever I order a cup of tea there).

Things are different nowadays, and economic isolationism offers us  a poor future.



Just decades ago the Pound was the World's currency, not the dollar. Two world wars hurt you more than colonies going independent.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Mappy on October 24, 2017, 09:02:57 PM
Well, Billy, as China moves up at least you know how things go.

Britain is actually trending left right now, not that it will do us any good. Even the apparently centre-right government is being forced into contemplating various left-wing things to do.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 01:30:06 AM

Reading the news you want to hear but ignoring the rest. The majority voted for Brexit.

))) BillyB - like those voting for Trump - it told me that Politicians need to wake up - as the electorate are prepared to listen to nearly anybody....

Yes, the far right got more votes - a reaction to Merkel's sticking to EU rules re immigration crisis by ignorant people ... calling them 'right' insults those whose believe in enterprise - without an," I'm alright, Jack, sod you poor guy" attitude.

The left in the UK shouldn't be crybabies, graciously accept the loss

BillyB, I am not a socialist - I live in an area where the percentage of tertiary educated folk is higher and those folks voted remain  ...  That you might think Brexit was about left or right simply suggests you really DO need to read up..

Cameron led the right of centre - Thatcher's party  - and was pro Brexit ..... :deadhorse:

give Brexit a chance. Instead of fighting Brexit every step of the way and blaming the right, how about doing your part to help UK come out of this situation the best way they can?

BillyB, 'my' nation voted 51/ 49 to leave the EU - but the referendum didn't say how.

Whilst I blame the leaving for 'our' current instability - and don't think we should leave - YES, 'we' must - but now there is no agreement on how to leave...

1/ Leave the Single market - renegotiate trade terms with 'our' biggest market ? NO-one has done this in less than 10 years - 'we' had two ...  Without a deal - the system we be default WTO taxes and BOY 'we' aren't ready for those...

2/ How to deal with existing EU folks living here - but not - yet qualified for Perm residency and those still coming QUITE LEGALLY ... ?  ( Problem is - they ARE leaving and our Health System - particularly the elderly relied on them to the extend that " I voted Brexit, but not for my carer" is now an oft heard lament ...

3/ How to deal with the Brits living abroad, who might have to come back - if not meeting the 'standards' we set on EU citizens wanted by 'hard Brexiters'

4/ Best of all - How CAN you have a 'hard border' with an EU State - Eire ( Rep of Ireland )  When there is freedom of movement of goods and people - and has been for nearly 100 yrs and the UK govt would FALL if a N.Ireland party they rely on, to STAY in govt - pulls the plug ? 

You simply don't know WHAT you're talking about and it is SO clear ...(
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 05:22:50 AM
Problem lies in the political system/government set up. The US got it off quite well with each state being able to be different to others but still comfortable be part of one whole. Bother the EU & Spain got it wrong by try to centilise too much power & be overbearing. Back in the ninties & early part of this century most in the UK were in favour of the EU, I was - we were a member of a European organisation for our collective good. That changed though in recent years with the admission of eastern bloc countries and a move by the EU for greater integration. They moved away from a membership organisation and towards an overbearing, controlling government force aimed at centilising power. This along with the economic & asylum crises showed that they would rule poorly and convinced those remaining undecided's in the UK that it is best we left the EU. My only concern is that we continue to proceed under the misbelief that the EU is superior and we must go to then for the scraps they throw to us. Seeing ourselves as an inferior underling of the EU is doing us no good, we should get to the Brexit way before the two years is up and get this decided and on our way.

..and there's another example of a 'Brexit' voter who is clueless as to reality

1/ The UK had an opt-out and had no intention of sharing the load re the refugee crisis ...Cameron had promised 2oK Syrians from refugee camps just over the Syrian borders in third countries


2/ E.Europeans: Whatzamatter diddums - where they doing a better job for less ?  They are already being missed in the social care sector and will be in agriculture

3/ Ah so you are in the Farage, let's get on with it camp ..  :deadhorse:

Please explain to us how you will control immigration and impose duties/ taxes necessary  with your crash and burn plan and how the govt will stay in power if it tries to create a border with the Irelands ?

Yup, dating, politics and economy aren't our Trench's strong-suits...
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 25, 2017, 06:32:56 AM
I live in an area where the percentage of tertiary educated folk is higher and those folks voted remain



Everybody who votes a certain way thinks the smart people voted with them too. Take a look at a map of Brexit votes. Those in Scotland really wanted to stay in the EU. I guess they are much smarter than you guys down south based on how you think who's the smartest.


That you might think Brexit was about left or right simply suggests you really DO need to read up..



Didn't you say immigration was a part of why Brexit happened? You're not going to convince me this was simply a vote of the smart people vs. the dumb people.



BillyB, 'my' nation voted 51/ 49 to leave the EU - but the referendum didn't say how.

Whilst I blame the leaving for 'our' current instability - and don't think we should leave - YES, 'we' must - but now there is no agreement on how to leave...



Leave means leave. Doesn't have to say how to leave. It's common sense that if you have to leave, you need to do it the best way possible but it seems the losers are fighting this every step of the way dragging on the misery and increasing the costs. It seems you guys are wanting the separation from the EU to fail so you can tell the other side "See, you're wrong!". Tell your politicians to deal with reality and make the transition go smooth for the benefit of the UK.


Well, Billy, as China moves up at least you know how things go.



I'm not worried about China. GDP close to America's but they need 4 times the people to accomplish that. Also nobody trusts them enough to prop up their currency as the worlds currency. They're economy is dependent on how much America buys. We go down, they go down.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 07:11:24 AM

Everybody who votes a certain way thinks the smart people voted with them too.

Except, BillyB - it is a fact - regions with higher numbers of tertiary-level educated folk voted to remain ...

Take a look at a map of Brexit votes. Those in Scotland really wanted to stay in the EU. I guess they are much smarter than you guys down south based on how you think who's the smartest.

Scotland used to have the best education system in the UK - hardly surprising they were 'wiser' ....  The reason the Scots wanted out of the UK was because they know the value of being in the EU and don't want the English taking 'em out


Didn't you say immigration was a part of why Brexit happened? You're not going to convince me this was simply a vote of the smart people vs. the dumb people.

Better off / less immigration - Yes that was the promise

1/ We are worse off - it was a lie

2/ Immigration went up - following the result - as those wishing to get in send the numbers rocketing

Good that you are asking questions, now

Leave means leave. Doesn't have to say how to leave. It's common sense that if you have to leave, you need to do it the best way possible but it seems the losers are fighting this every step of the way dragging on the misery and increasing the costs. It seems you guys are wanting the separation from the EU to fail so you can tell the other side "See, you're wrong!". Tell your politicians to deal with reality and make the transition go smooth for the benefit of the UK.

Once again, you are proving you  are clueless.

Leaving the EU  doesn't / didn't  mean the UK must leave

1/ The Single market - we were in THAT as the EEC - tax free zone.. for example Norway and Switzerland are not full EU members - but members of the EEA.

2/ Council of Europe - Russia, Turkey, Ukraine are even members of that

3/ European Court of Justice

..and many other bodies, incl defence, policing ..

Really, all you are doing is proving you ARE dumb on this subject





Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 25, 2017, 07:41:08 AM
1/ We are worse off - it was a lie



Brexit isn't going to be fully implemented until 2019 at the earliest. And you call me dumb? After the changes are in place, wait a few years before calling the promises a lie. Be patient. What you also need to realize, the majority voters for Brexit felt the previous policies were a lie and harming the country.


2/ Immigration went up - following the result - as those wishing to get in send the numbers rocketing



Your current and previous laws pertaining to immigration allowed that to happen. Not the revised laws that will be soon created due to Brexit.


America has similar issues the UK has on immigration. I don't oppose immigration. I think it's good for the nation but if our governments don't do a better job choosing which immigrants get to get in, I have a problem with that. Many immigrants do not want to embrace our culture. They resent our cultures yet want all the benefits our culture provides them.


Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 10:36:29 AM

Brexit isn't going to be fully implemented until 2019 at the earliest. And you call me dumb?

Exactly - as the consequences are already taking place

1/ Financial service sector moving to Frankfurt / Ireland / Luxembourg

2/ Pound Sterling 20 - 50 percent weaker against Dollor, Euro, Rouble

3/ Huge hole in our govt revenues - due to 'Brexit uncertainty' - so more govt borrowing - credit rating dropped

4/ Now we have inflation and 84% chance of interest rate rises..

Sure - only a DUMB person could say this is 'good news' ..


After the changes are in place, wait a few years before calling the promises a lie. Be patient. What you also need to realize, the majority voters for Brexit felt the previous policies were a lie and harming the country.

Ah, so 'we' should 'ignore' the above....? !

Your current and previous laws pertaining to immigration allowed that to happen. Not the revised laws that will be soon created due to Brexit.


Another 'BillyB' DUMB comment - you don't even know anything about UK immigration laws - other than what Google might teach you.

We have two immigration routes:

a/ EU - still currently open to those who aren't terrorists

b/ Non-EU - v.harsh terms and conditions set - to the extent our Universities are screaming overseas Student numbers are discouraged



America has similar issues the UK has on immigration.

NO - it doesn't

The DUMB comments just don't stop .. WE are an island and it is v.hard to get in - illegally - to claim asylum. It was perfectly legal immigration a tiny maj of folks voted to stop



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 25, 2017, 01:39:57 PM
What's dumb is that you think the sky is falling and think you need the EU to hold your hand to survive. So what if your currency drops in
Value due to  initial fear. If your citizens work hard for your economy to perform, the Currency will end up where it should be.

UK citizens spoke and they wanted the EU to make some changes and the EU did not listen and took their chances. If they had made some changes to change the minds of just 2% of the voters there would be no Brexit.  The EU may not even survive. What are you going to do when they won't be around to rescue the UK?  Cry again and call people dumb?
Title: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Post by: JayH on October 25, 2017, 01:44:59 PM
Funnily enough my first thoughts when I saw this headline was Brexit --  pretty closely followed by the US electing Donald Trump. The question is which decision will do the most harm to the nation  !
Both are incredibly clueless results of flawed democratic process.


What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?


Michael Bloomberg has some skin in the Britain game: his ex-wife is British, his daughters have our passports. So he was saying it as a friend when he commented this week that he thought Brexit was “the single stupidest thing any country has ever done” (aside from electing Donald Trump, he added, of course).

True, it is hard for Bloomberg to imagine why people might vote against a system that worked perfectly well for billionaire captains of industry. And whatever follows may knock a few points off the GDP. But is it really the stupidest thing any country has ever done?

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/shortcuts/2017/oct/25/whats-the-stupidest-thing-a-nation-has-ever-done
Title: Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Post by: ML on October 25, 2017, 01:55:33 PM
Both are incredibly clueless results of flawed democratic process.

What is example of the flaw in the democratic process of elections in USA?

A candidate you favor not winning is not an example of a flaw.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 25, 2017, 02:53:04 PM
Once again it's BillyB that speak the most sense. The £ is currently undervalued at the moment as there is a lot off oversensitivity to the Brexit situation in the financial markets. We only need to look back to the eighties & early nineties to when this country stood without the EU & before to realise this is stupid, the country has functioned perfectly well before the EU came about and will do after.

The rise in inflation is a result of Mark Carney dropping the interest rates by a quarter percent not so long ago. His meddling has caused the inflation, he should have left interest rates alone, the economy was perfectly stable. Carney though is pro-EU and to me seems to be a result of his politicing. There's a lot of very rich vested interests in Britain that hold the view that their interests should prevail over the democratic vote. Their upset because the British public didn't do as they bidded as we have done so often in the past and vote as they dictated. I mean do you really think a very wealthy guy like Bloomsberg really has any idea or consideration what life is like in the EU for the general UK public?
Title: Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Post by: GQBlues on October 25, 2017, 02:58:28 PM
What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?


Having generations of feeble-minded population get fleeced off by a useless hag, and her entire bloodline, while she cuts the fat off the hog from the mindless population who chalk it up as *ceremonial*.
Title: Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 02:58:47 PM
Perhaps you have not heard of the Electoral College which was implemented to avoid the big cities controlling the politics of the country and leaving out the rural population.  We have been using this system since the beginning and are satisfied with it.  Since you are not an American, I suspect you prefer the parliamentary system.  No problem, you have your system, we have ours!

I answered ML's question...

We have the same issue in that the 'first past the post' system means that we get situations whereby a party can govern - with a majority - having not won the majority of votes ..

I suggest you assumed, wrongly ..  Quite happy to have knowledgeable folk offer intelligent observations of our bizarre, evolved govt., whereby the head of state is a member of a family that inherits 'power' ))

Title: Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 03:01:21 PM

Having generations of feeble-minded population get fleeced off by a useless hag, and her entire bloodline, while she cuts the fat off the hog from the mindless population who chalk it up as *ceremonial*.

GQB

I'm still not sure if you are referring to HM The Queen ...    There is nothing 'mindless' about history - something lots of Americans are welcome to come and see - now that the GBP is so week


She pays for herself ...

 
Title: Re: What's the stupidest thing a nation has ever done?
Post by: GQBlues on October 25, 2017, 03:07:00 PM
She pays for herself ...




 :ROFL:


Point made.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 25, 2017, 03:28:21 PM
Once again it's BillyB that speak the most sense.


I'm sure having the likes of you backing up his clueless 'factoids' and inability to deal with my specific ripostes will be 'validation'
 :ROFL:

The £ is currently undervalued at the moment as there is a lot off oversensitivity to the Brexit situation in the financial markets. We only need to look back to the eighties & early nineties to when this country stood without the EU & before to realise this is stupid, the country has functioned perfectly well before the EU came about and will do after.

Thanks for demonstrating you understand the concept of currency valuations and historical fact ...NOT ...

1/ In the nineties Britain was IN the EU - God, can you get anything right ?  The UK was part of the ever enlarging EEC from the SEVENTIES ....    If anyone remembers how 'well' industry was doing in the 50's, 60s and 70's - DECLINE ...  Can they remind rose-tinted spectacles Trench ?

2/ The GBP is valued based on: current and future expectations..

The rise in inflation is a result of Mark Carney dropping the interest rates by a quarter percent not so long ago.

 :shock: :ROFL:

No.. a team of experts lowered the rates - agreeing 7:2 in August '16 from 0.5 to 0.25 percent.. the main inflationary pressure has been the GBP falling and thus imports cost more, so prices had to rise.  You clearly aren't feeling the pulse of most UK businesses.

the economy was perfectly stable.

Well, it was until it looked possible that we could actually commit suicide and vote 'Brexit' ... there was a huge danger of a recession - given the shock of the result and it's implications for job losses in the most lucrative service sector - which was the ONLY sector still 'growing' in Aug '16 ...   

I have to wonder if you're just scanning google and managing to look more daft ...

Carney though is pro-EU and to me seems to be a result of his politicing.

He certainly pointed out the fall-out of a leave vote ... the vote is hardly his fault and - once again - interest rates are set by a committee of experts - NOT him !

There's a lot of very rich vested interests in Britain that hold the view that their interests should prevail over the democratic vote. Their upset because the British public didn't do as they bidded as we have done so often in the past and vote as they dictated. I mean do you really think a very wealthy guy like Bloomsberg really has any idea or consideration what life is like in the EU for the general UK public?

1/ IF you knew what you were talking about, you'd know that a select bunch of businessmen  seeking a weaker Pound to aid their exports - spent big to get a leave vote - posting slogans - like 'savings of £350 million / week' that were simply LIES ..

2/ Bloomberg employs HOW many people in the UK ? It is currently THE financial hub - but that is ebbing away to other EU nations...  So, YES he'd know ...

Certainly better than you.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 25, 2017, 03:57:06 PM
Moby, the EEC was different to the EU, we voted to be in the EEC the British public did not vote to be in the EU. At the time most accepted it as it was just seen as a membership organisation NOT a government. With the EEC we largely stood as an independent nation & economy rather than the 'single market' Which came under the EU.

Guys like Bloomsberg look at the opportunities that would exist for his daughters by being in the EU. Those opportunities do not remotely exist for most Britons only the super rich with their schemes of power plays, etc. Freedom of movement entails much more scope for them than an average earning Joe or an unemployed guy in the UK.

Carney basically leads the monetary committee he has a big sway over the way they vote. They may decide not to follow he's lead but often they will. It was evident from Carney's speach shortly after the Brexit vote came in that he was trying to unsettle the economy to try to undermine the democratic vote.

For some reason there are those who think the democratic vote should not be respected. Donald Tusk this week suggested that 'no Brexit' was an option. They should really accept the vote, not doing so would cause more problems not less.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 26, 2017, 12:21:02 AM
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 26, 2017, 12:53:22 AM
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)

Mobe, I'm not even sure why you introduced the Brexit thread. The way I see it, it's all been decided, it's going to go through so nothing more to say. Remainers lost the referendum so stop you're remoaning :D
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 26, 2017, 05:44:19 AM
Mobe, I'm not even sure why you introduced the Brexit thread. The way I see it, it's all been decided,

WHAT has been decided, Trench?

Aren't you aware of the regular meetings between the UK and the EU?

NOTHING - that really is NOTHING - has been decided..

The current EU stance is, "UK must agree to the final figure for payments promised into the EU, ( incl in the budgets) before any other agreements can be finalised"

More 101 stuff .. :deadhorse:

Now - if you or BillyB can get back to us re your previous countered howlers.....  I'm enjoying educating you, both )

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 26, 2017, 07:55:45 AM
Don't you Americans have enough threads going without introducing your Emperor in New Clothes into the UK Brexit thread ?;)


Trump was not introduced into this thread by an American. You were the third poster in this thread to mention Trump and did it numerous times. Pay attention.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 26, 2017, 08:33:12 AM
Mobe, it's been decided that we ate leaving the EU, we won the vote to do so, we now have a pro leave government & article 50 has been declared. Now it is only a matter off time before we leave the EU, you may still not accept that but it is how it is, it is inevitable that we leave the EU.

I personally can't see the EU lasting long with the way it racks up debt before it itself defaults just like Greece. Saddling us down with a portion of their debt will not help them or us. We voted out of EU as we disagreed with us having to pay for EU bureaucrats to feather their own nests through over generous pensions, etc. So we should not pay them anything but rather bid them good day and be on our way. Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on October 26, 2017, 09:28:04 AM
Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:


Germany and France may allow you guys to be as important as they are at the EU in hopes to lure you back to the EU. Also the EU can give the UK control over their own border and stop forcing you to take more Syrian immigrants than you want.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 26, 2017, 11:49:59 AM

Trump was not introduced into this thread by an American. You were the third poster in this thread to mention Trump and did it numerous times. Pay attention.

YOU introduced Obama -  responding to a Brit about Trump ..

How attentive is that ?;)
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on October 26, 2017, 11:56:03 AM
Mobe, it's been decided that we ate leaving the EU, we won the vote to do so, we now have a pro leave government & article 50 has been declared. Now it is only a matter off time before we leave the EU, you may still not accept that but it is how it is, it is inevitable that we leave the EU.

It is noted that you didn't respond to my precise points re the leaving - and merely repeat your clueless mantra.

I personally can't see the EU lasting long with the way it racks up debt before it itself defaults just like Greece. Saddling us down with a portion of their debt will not help them or us. We voted out of EU as we disagreed with us having to pay for EU bureaucrats to feather their own nests through over generous pensions, etc. So we should not pay them anything but rather bid them good day and be on our way. Something tells me we would get a better deal post Brexit than during it. I'm will to sit this out until the inevitable leaving occurs :popcorn:

YOU might be 'willing' - but sadly business owners need to plan ..  You are clearly salaried and leave the planning to big boys...
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on November 03, 2017, 05:38:16 PM
Jumper - as a mod - Can you move your US infestation of a Brit oriented thread elsewhere, please  :welcome: ?


Anyway - back on topic ..

The likes of Trench - who thought this was a good idea ...  now see we have

1/ Inflation - due to the GBP fall - so costs rose - so now interest rates have been put up - for the first time in 10 years ... which will have a dramatic effect on those borrowing as interest rates were so low..

2/ Job losses ... another - easily predictable -  forecast by 'Protect Fear' - the Remain campaign - the 'Golden Goose' of UK PLC - Finance  - the City of London - will see 75K well-paid jobs moving overseas - as Financial Giants aren't going to wait and see how many of their bright young things will need visas and the Euro-zone take measures to penalise London for having been THE place to trade in 'their' currency ..

The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((
Title: Putin & 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: JayH on November 04, 2017, 01:31:50 AM
Ahh--   apart from not being able to comprehend how dumb some voters are --the US example of how they can be influenced is now at centre stage -- as is Putin's agenda . It clear that he has succeeded to an incredible degree to sow disharmony -- and chaos in the west.

Now this--
Putin's active measures can help tip balance back in Brexit referendum

Word of Russian ‘black cash’ financing leave campaigns is fast becoming a torrent. As the inquiries pile up, hard evidence could delegitimise the EU referendum in Britain, Mark Galeotti wrote for The Guardian.

Read more on UNIAN: http://www.unian.info/politics/2223581-putins-active-measures-can-help-tip-balance-back-in-brexit-referendum-media.html

Title: Re: Putin & 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: JayH on November 04, 2017, 01:38:20 AM
 I am guessing that it will be every bit as difficult to convince Brexiteers that the Russian money and influence peddling affected the outcome  as it is for the Trumpateers in the US to understand that it was the Russians hand up Trumps back that got him elected !

The presidential administration is the most powerful institution in Vladimir Putin’s deeply personalised system: it feeds him the intelligence he wants, it oversees ministries and governors, and it coordinates his “active measures” political dirty tricks campaign in the west. This spring, I sat down in Moscow with an astute former staffer of the presidential administration and he remarked that Putin demanded apparent success today at the expense of real success tomorrow. Brexit may prove the perfect case study.


How Putin could yet save Britain from Brexit

All told, it would be a fitting irony if, of all people, it was Putin who saved Britain from Brexit. A steady trickle of hard information and soft rumour about Russian support for Brexit risks becoming a torrent. Some of this support was, frankly, of questionable impact. Too much is often made of the alleged influence of the English-language Sputnik news agency and RT television channel, or even of the online trolling and disinformation campaign. Evidence that they actually changed minds – rather than just pandered to existing prejudices – is still lacking.

However, there is a growing likelihood that later this year or early next we will see solid evidence of financial support for the Brexit camp, too. MP Ben Bradshaw has used parliamentary privilege to raise the question of the mysteriously bottomless pockets of Arron Banks, the main backer for Leave.EU. The Electoral Commission this week launched an investigation into whether he and one of his companies broke campaign finance rules in the run-up to the referendum. George Cottrell, once an aide to the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage, has been arrested by the FBI on money laundering charges, and we await the outcome of that investigation.

 Is a second Brexit vote possible? Yes – if the people want it
Hugo Dixon
 Read more
Meanwhile, according to US intelligence sources with whom I have discussed Moscow’s activities, there are other cases of what the Russian spooks call “black cash” supporting pro-Brexit campaigns and campaigners, likely to be revealed over the course of the several inquiries taking place on the other side of the Atlantic.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/nov/02/putin-save-britain-brexit-russia-eu-referendum?CMP=share_btn_tw
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: 2tallbill on November 04, 2017, 07:58:19 AM
The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((

The street runs both ways and you ignore that.

Does Germany want access to Uk markets? Does France? There is nothing that
they make in Germany that isn't manufactured somewhere else. The USA, Japan,
Korea and China all would love to have Germany and Francy Pants share of the
UK market.

Some of your points are valid, but the Chicken Little scenario isn't going to happen.
The individual countries of the EU will blink and the pencil necks in Brussels won't
be able to determine the specific gravity of the gravel in the asphalt on the motorway
linking Hendon to Leeds.

Don't laugh the EU Harmonisation has standards on exactly that. It was principally
to eliminate barriers to trade within the European economy, including the UK.
So who knows how much freaking gravel you have to import from ____________
enter far away place here, in order to build a local highway when all common
sense would tell you to get the gravel from a source as close to the road construction
as humanly possible. 

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: treadmilldude on November 04, 2017, 07:59:09 AM
Moby, I have a question for you. I ask you because you seem to be the most well-read, most educated on Brexit. I have read a good deal on Brexit, but my knowledge on the subject pales in comparison to yours.

By the way, I love the pic from a few days ago with you and SC. You two look very happy together, a very loving Couple. SC looks very happy in the picture - pretty, sweet smile on her face. As usual, she looks beautiful, she is a beautiful girl Moby. You are a very blessed Man, and I hope you tell SC, minimum 25 times every day, how beautiful she is and how much you love her. How important she is to you and how much she improves your life in all facets. Just always be good to a Woman like her, Moby. They are hard to find, and can be hard to retain.

I know I can find a good woman like her, I have had good Women like her in my life........just never married a good woman like her.........the challenge for me will be retaining her and avoiding having her serve me with divorce papers after 8,10, 12 years of marriage. I am going to always have to have my  (A+)  game going 365 days per year as a Husband to accomplish that. I think too many of my friends, who married good women yet subsequently suffered divorces years down the road.....it was a combination of their US Wives being unreasonably demanding, in addition to my male friends not showing up with their  (A+)  game 365 days per year of their marriage. Marriage is hard work and I am scared of failing at it as my friends have done. But this fear will work to my advantage I believe, and force me to become an even better Husband. 
Or if I do not, then Divorce is almost a guaranteed future sequela.   

My question for you....I know you are not a fan of Brexit right now. But before the vote, I read some excellent arguments from both sides of the argument. In your non-biased, non-emotional, purely objective estimation.....what do you feel are the most likely long-term (ie 15 to 25 years from now - so in about 2032 to 2042) effects of Brexit? Looking at it purely objectively and casting aside any emotions you have on the subject, do you see the UK being better off overall post-Brexit 15 to 25 years from now (ie long-term) ?

I keep trying to figure out if the UK is going to be better or worse off long-term under Brexit, but I keep stumbling on wildly different thoughts on the matter. There are definitely true believers on both sides of the issue. You are a pretty bright guy Moby, I would like to hear your thoughts on the effects of Brexit 15 to 25 years from now.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BC on November 04, 2017, 10:39:49 AM
The Brexit impact papers should bring some clarity.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Jumper on November 04, 2017, 06:33:23 PM
Jumper - as a mod - Can you move your US infestation of a Brit oriented thread elsewhere, please  :welcome: ?


Anyway - back on topic ..

The likes of Trench - who thought this was a good idea ...  now see we have

1/ Inflation - due to the GBP fall - so costs rose - so now interest rates have been put up - for the first time in 10 years ... which will have a dramatic effect on those borrowing as interest rates were so low..

2/ Job losses ... another - easily predictaouble -  forecast by 'Protect Fear' - the Remain campaign - the 'Golden Goose' of UK PLC - Finance  - the City of London - will see 75K well-paid jobs moving overseas - as Financial Giants aren't going to wait and see how many of their bright young things will need visas and the Euro-zone take measures to penalise London for having been THE place to trade in 'their' currency ..

The STUPIDITY of those seeking 'independence' over access to markets - in a macro trading world know no bounds ...((


I'm not a mod.
Havn't been for some time.

The forum hasn't been updated
In years in that respect.
That said : politics of a different flavor in a political thread is about
As minor if thread drift as ever occurs.
I would not care if it's all deleted,
but if it disrupted basically 3 people talking about Brexit,
 Sporadically, while giving side shots at US politics,
It sure isn't the end of the world.
You guys have better things to fuss over here I'm sure.

Title: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: 2tallbill on November 04, 2017, 06:50:50 PM
The Brexit impact papers should bring some clarity.

I don't have a horse in this race, I just don't belong to the chicken little school
of thought.

It's an interesting situation in the UK. The negotiators put together some plans
and theories about what could happen in what industry and their political enemies
get those plans and negotiating theories published so that the EU negotiators can
know how and what the UK team perceives as their weaknesses.

That can't be the best way to hold a negotiation.



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on November 05, 2017, 12:45:26 AM

I'm not a mod.
Havn't been for some time.

Call me 'observant' - not - SORRY, Jumper..But it was a cry to any Mod


As minor if thread drift as ever occurs.
I would not care if it's all deleted,
but if it disrupted basically 3 people talking about Brexit,
 Sporadically, while giving side shots at US politics,
It sure isn't the end of the world.
You guys have better things to fuss over here I'm sure.

I TRY to only comment on 'Tramp' when he does another stupid thing that affects the world/ UK Citizens born in nations he may try to ban.

I'm not perfect, but THIS thread has f'all to do with him .

If anyone wants to disagree with us committing suicide - welcome ! .
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Jumper on November 06, 2017, 01:38:08 PM
The entire EU thing was not set up or utilized properly.

I used to export to EU.
Had several distributors across it.
UK, Denmark, Germany, France, and Luxembourg.
Once taxed  imported into one, the product could then go to others .
Since Luxembourgs vat rate was lower the bulk went thru there.
  I never understood why the rates coukd vary so much, but it did make me wonder if that's why Luxembourg holds a pile of import firms and millionaires.

My UK customers paid a premium in comparison, so oft woukd choose to purchase through Luxembourg dist. Vs the UK firm.

Are import export taxes part of the interest in Brexit?

Title: 17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain
Post by: JayH on November 23, 2017, 06:55:33 PM
Remarkably it seems the same type of lower income demographic  that was dumb enough to elect Trump in the US  and then find that Trump's tax cuts were in fact an increase in taxes for them   --- is the same people who voted for Brexit in the UK !!
Of course -- in both cases the cause was helped along by the Kremlin disinformation and lies .

Before Moby gets all excited about "his" Brexit thread being diverted -- maybe now  you see the connection>

In both cases -- I seriously doubt both Trump and Brexit  would be with us today if the constituents realised it was directly going to hit their hip pockets !  In both cases the success hinged on the ignorance of the people who voted.

Even on this forum-- it is evident  that the dumbarses supported Brexit and Trump.!! :cluebat:



17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain

British workers could go nearly two decades without a real pay raise due to the country's economic decline.
That's the key takeaway from two influential reports published just a day after the U.K. Treasury admitted that a weaker outlook for growth -- exacerbated by Brexit -- meant Britain had fallen out of the world's top five economies.
The Resolution Foundation, a non-partisan think tank, said that average earnings, when adjusted for inflation, are likely to stay below the level they hit before the global financial crisis until the start of 2025. That means 17 years without a pay hike.
Powered by SmartAsset.com

The Institute for Fiscal Studies, the country's leading independent economic research institute, gave a similarly dire warning.


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/23/news/economy/brexit-pay-raise-britain/index.html
Title: Re: 17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain
Post by: ML on November 23, 2017, 09:41:45 PM
Remarkably it seems the same type of lower income demographic  that was dumb enough to elect Trump in the US  and then find that Trump's tax cuts were in fact an increase in taxes for them 

Can't really happen because the lower income folks in USA already pay zero Federal Income taxes.  And in many cases they get a payout from the IRS when they file.

And it's pretty funny when the left wingers cry that most of the decrease in taxes will go to those in highest brackets.

How can those in lower income brackets get a decrease in taxes when they don't pay any to begin with?

This has been reported here numerous times . . . apparently to no avail.

In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.

http://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/
Title: Re: 17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain
Post by: JayH on November 24, 2017, 12:04:43 AM
Can't really happen because the lower income folks in USA already pay zero Federal Income taxes.  And in many cases they get a payout from the IRS when they file.

And it's pretty funny when the left wingers cry that most of the decrease in taxes will go to those in highest brackets.

How can those in lower income brackets get a decrease in taxes when they don't pay any to begin with?

This has been reported here numerous times . . . apparently to no avail.

In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.

http://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/

ML  --really?

Those earning between   $10  &  $70K a year will see a  tax increase .Common sense would say that these are the people that need a cut-- not an increase  .
Now in case you have recently joined the throng of ...... ........   ........ .........  etc--   that is what the actuarial  accounting examination of the proposal says .
.
I note -- you quote some stats  to support your incorrect base argument -like this --"Can't really happen because the lower income folks in USA already pay zero Federal Income taxes."   -- do you really believe that people who earn less than you don't pay tax?

Or this "And it's pretty funny when the left wingers cry that most of the decrease in taxes will go to those in highest brackets."  -- are you disputing that in $ terms that this group will be the biggest beneficiaries?  Duh !!

Really -- grow up.Get a dose of reality.Some of your posts reflects appalling ignorance of your own system-- and more importantly-- shows you have not studied who will benefit and who will lose under the proposal.Time to watch and read something outside of Fox   !!

My point if I have to spell it out-- it was the low income bracket people support that got the idiot Trump elected ! You get it yet-they shot themselves in both feet in believing in Trump.

You think I am a left winger? Geez I love labels from those who are incapable of thinking and seeing the obvious .Others are far more patient and tolerant  of the sort of ignorance you display here ( you are not alone--plenty of others here do it repeatedly) and bother to post the numbers-- my view- go find them yourself  and think before posting some inanely inaccurate incorrect philosophical position you hold.
Title: Re: 17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain
Post by: BC on November 24, 2017, 02:36:59 AM

In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.

http://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/

And the bottom 50% earn what? under 30k per year with 12% at or below poverty level?  That's the real issue.

Meanwhile, UK is looking at historic low growth rates the next couple years at least, a rise in prices for imports and no tax relief or low-tax regime.  Not to mention near parity for GBP vs EUR, inflation already kicking in, interest rates with nowhere to go but up and a big question mark for costs of realigning everything post-Brexit.  I'd be a bit worried, it's almost scary.

Gonna be hell when reality sets in.
Title: Re: 17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain
Post by: ML on November 24, 2017, 09:29:24 AM
Quote from: ML on Yesterday at 11:41:45 PM
In 2012, the top 50 percent of all taxpayers (69.2 million filers) paid 97.2 percent of all income taxes while the bottom 50 percent paid the remaining 2.8 percent.

    http://taxfoundation.org/summary-latest-federal-income-tax-data-2015-update/

And the bottom 50% earn what? under 30k per year with 12% at or below poverty level?  That's the real issue.

You are right.

Some here don't believe that millions of adults in USA pay zero Federal Income  taxes.  But  it is true . . . so those folks  by definition cannot get a reduction in their Federal Taxes.

Those the best hope for those at the bottom is that the economy will grow when tax relief is provided to businesses and high earners with money to invest.

Something that may fly in congress is a provision that businesses which benefit from a lower tax bill will raise wages of blue color workers by X percent.

But first the liberals here, in the press and on the talk shows have got to get over screaming that the low income people are not getting their taxes lowered.  Can't lower something below zero.
Title: Re: 17 years without a raise? Welcome to Brexit Britain
Post by: JayH on November 24, 2017, 02:30:31 PM


But first the liberals here, in the press and on the talk shows have got to get over screaming that the low income people are not getting their taxes lowered.  Can't lower something below zero.

ML -- my comment WAS NOT about low income earners getting a reduction ---- BUT AN INCREASE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Like I said --you need to read what was said and stop looking at issues with a preconceived set position.

Now -- go back and read what I actually said again.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 03, 2017, 01:46:30 PM


Are import export taxes part of the interest in Brexit?

Naturally... if there is no deal - 'we' will be on the 'emergency' trade tariff rates ... e.g 10 percent for cars, spares, etc.   

I can just see Honda, Nissan, BMW and Toyota further investing in the UK plants - if there are tariffs (

The golden goose of financial services is already looking at upping sticks and moving to Ireland, L'bourg, etc.


Remember. 'we' were sold on Brexit bringing 'savings'  :deadhorse:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 03, 2017, 04:51:26 PM
Naturally... if there is no deal - 'we' will be on the 'emergency' trade tariff rates ... e.g 10 percent for cars, spares, etc.   

I can just see Honda, Nissan, BMW and Toyota further investing in the UK plants - if there are tariffs (

The golden goose of financial services is already looking at upping sticks and moving to Ireland, L'bourg, etc.


Remember. 'we' were sold on Brexit bringing 'savings'  :deadhorse:

If the car manufacturers invest further in UK plants to avoid import tariffs then Brexit & the tariffs would have done the job they set out to do of bringing UK jobs for UK workers :D

I know there was the announcement a couple of weeks or so ago of the European Banking Organisation moving to Paris. To me this is welcome news the City crowd in London have menaced this country for too long. They take an all too dominant position on the policies of government, make no recogniseable positive impact to the lives of the general population in the UK and plunged this convey into economic chaos every decade or so, i.e credit crunch, ERM, stock market speculation & crashes, etc.

I think bidding ridden to the 'joys' of the free market will be a good thing for us.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 03, 2017, 07:49:40 PM
If the car manufacturers invest further in UK plants to avoid import tariffs then Brexit & the tariffs would have done the job they set out to do of bringing UK jobs for UK workers :D

What ARE you talking about ? - IF there was a 'hard Brest' and no deal - remembering the quickest trade tariff deals take nearly a decade and 'we' have less than two years - the Japes, Germans - etc - will be paying duty on components going in and 'we' will pay on the assembled cars going out - what a waste of time, resources and money...bearing in mind the goods move freely, now.

I know there was the announcement a couple of weeks or so ago of the European Banking Organisation moving to Paris. To me this is welcome news the City crowd in London have menaced this country for too long. They take an all too dominant position on the policies of government, make no recogniseable positive impact to the lives of the general population in the UK and plunged this convey into economic chaos every decade or so, i.e credit crunch, ERM, stock market speculation & crashes, etc.

Are you so clueless about EVERYTHING you post ? ! ... London, was THE Euro trading centre and in jobs alone - the loss will be 4000 VERY well paid staff - who will be elsewhere - and their salaries and bonuses - will benefit  other local business elsewhere, too

If you HAD a clue - you'd realise that many financial services industries have their top programmers in Ireland Germany, Luxembourg, et al paving the way for a move out of London .... :deadhorse:

I think bidding ridden to the 'joys' of the free market will be a good thing for us.

No, that WILL not happen - esp. not in the near future -... ALL that will happen is we will lose voting rights, and pay compo to a club that will be losing jobs to - and having to obey the rules they make to trade there

Please tell me how this makes sense or is 'saving' money ?

Ah, you WILL be able to control all those 'terrible Poles' from coming and working better for less ... ((
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 04, 2017, 03:58:42 AM
What ARE you talking about ? - IF there was a 'hard brexit' and no deal - remembering the quickest trade tariff deals take nearly a decade and 'we' have less than two years - the Japs, Germans - etc - will be paying duty on components going in and 'we' are the assembled cars going out - what a waste of time and money...bearing in mind the goods move freely, now.

Are you so clueless about EVERYTHING you post ? ! ... London, was THE Euro trading centre and in jobs alone - the loss will be 4000 VERY well paid staff - who will be elsewhere - and their salaries and bonuses - will benefit  other local business elsewhere, too

If you HAD a clue - you'd realise that many financial services industries have their top programmers in Ireland Germany, Luxembourg, et al paving the way for a move out of London .... :deadhorse:

No, that WILL not happen - esp. not in the near future -... ALL that will happen is we will lose voting rights, and pay compo to a club that will be losing jobs to - and having to obey the rules they make to trade there

Please tell me how this makes sense or is 'saving' money ?

Ah, you WILL be able to control all those 'terrible Poles' from coming and working better for less ... ((

Mobe the likes of BMW ate not going to make cars here to ship back to try country they are based in. They will just turn their plants to making their model range for the UK market. We will actually make more money from tariffs and more trade comes in from the EU than goes out. That's a lot of money for the government to pay down our debt and fund our services. Companies such as Glaxo Smith Kline & big car manufacturers make tons of money they don't need what amount to a money off coupon funded by poor taxpayers. That is essentially what is happening under free trade.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 04, 2017, 04:13:06 AM
Dear Trench,

Suggest you read up on the proportion of BMWs, Jap brands made and exported from the UK..
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: 2tallbill on December 04, 2017, 11:45:25 AM
What ARE you talking about ? - IF there was a 'hard Brest' and no deal - remembering the quickest trade tariff deals take nearly a decade and 'we' have less than two years -

NAFTA took 5 years

You assume the worst and that everyone involved are idiots.
Germany's economy would go in a tailspin if they didn't slap
together a trade deal. They could easily make a one year deal
and extend it as necessary while they cobble together their own
deal.

The stupid EU type trade deals which specify how big the holes
on Waffles should be or how the slaughter process of pigs used
in pepperoni and the color and chemical content of painted lines
on the highways take 10 years.

It's sheer stupidity for countries to make deals like those.
Those deals give idiots in another country power to get involved
in every minute detail of everyone's lives and they work daily to
get more involved.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 05, 2017, 09:42:29 PM
NAFTA took 5 years

'Really' ! ?

From Reagan's announcement of the concept (1979) to it's signing ( 1994) seems a LOT longer than 5 years ;)

 
You assume the worst and that everyone involved are idiots.


Hmm...could it be that many ARE ?

Germany's economy would go in a tailspin if they didn't slap
together a trade deal. They could easily make a one year deal
and extend it as necessary while they cobble together their own
deal.

Beel, you just do not get it ... these deals do not happen over-night - then there's the implementation...

The stupid EU type trade deals which specify how big the holes
on Waffles should be or how the slaughter process of pigs used
in pepperoni and the color and chemical content of painted lines
on the highways take 10 years.

I don't know WHERE you 'researched' that gem of nonsense.. but we certainly have more controls over the crap that goes in our food than you do !


It's sheer stupidity for countries to make deals like those.
Those deals give idiots in another country power to get involved
in every minute detail of everyone's lives and they work daily to
get more involved.

No..now you're confusing Federalism with common trade rules.. 

As it stands, now the UK govt is in disarray. It's 'plans' for 'Brexit' are a shambles and as I predicted - N.Ireland would be the stumbling block - with the added spice that Theresa May's STUPID decision to call an election - where she lost seats and now needs the N.Ireland MPs to survive.

It looks like the UK may well have to find a way to stay in the Single market - as goods will simply go via IRL to NI and in the 'back door' - as there simply cannot be any 'customs' checking from one part of the UK to another

This 'Brexit' was going to save us money - that was the biggest fib... and now we stand a chance of the govt falling and a proper Socialist leader - that will take us back to the dark ages (

The only option is to bin May - get a new leader - quick and put this farse to bed





Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Jumper on December 05, 2017, 10:22:49 PM
Quote
...don't know WHERE you 'researched' that gem of nonsense.. but we certainly have more controls over the crap that goes in our food than you do !

As far as trade and tariff regs, I've dealt with it some.
I believe what Bill is referencing is similar to the idiotic
concept and political manuevering that lumps things like beef imported to EU, and an Austrian, or Swedish,  motorcycle above "x" cc's exported to the USA,  having absolutely no correlation other than retaliatory knee jerk B.S. by both sides of the equation. That kind of wackiness goes on daily almost on everything from paperclips to bulldozer bits
And while the non elected bureaucrats dwaddle in every affair to justify their jobs,they put small business owners out of biz over factors completely unrelated to their business or industry.
  Just watched it happen this past few months.I have a meeting with legislature in Springfield,il  Friday over it.
Yes I feel EU has every right to regulate what beef it imports, it is the USA retaliation on several  completely unrelated EU based products that's asisnine. But its one example of the foolishness of such tariff maneuvering that occurs way too often.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: 2tallbill on December 06, 2017, 07:48:43 AM

Beel, you just do not get it ... these deals do not happen over-night - then there's the implementation...

I don't know WHERE you 'researched' that gem of nonsense.. but we certainly have more controls over the crap that goes in our food than you do !

Animal slaughter
In October 2017, the Commission concluded a study on the "Preparation of best practices on the protection of animals at the time of killing".
http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ea4ef3e9-cda5-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en

In October 2017, the Commission concluded a study on the "Welfare of farmed fish: Common practices during transport and slaughter".
http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/facddd32-cda6-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-49981830


Moby,

They don't have an option of taking ten years so they will do something
temporary. You are doing the chicken little thing again.

You are just like the Democrats regarding Trump. They lost, they don't
get a do-over for 4 years. Setting your hair on fire isn't going to solve
things.

Udachi!

Bill

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2017, 12:08:05 PM
Animal slaughter
In October 2017, the Commission concluded a study on the "Preparation of best practices on the protection of animals at the time of killing".
http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ea4ef3e9-cda5-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en (http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/ea4ef3e9-cda5-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en)

In October 2017, the Commission concluded a study on the "Welfare of farmed fish: Common practices during transport and slaughter".
http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/facddd32-cda6-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-49981830 (http://publications.europa.eu/en/publication-detail/-/publication/facddd32-cda6-11e7-a5d5-01aa75ed71a1/language-en/format-PDF/source-49981830)


I don't think those studies are beyond the pale.  The same exists in North America, and why shouldn't it?  Shouldn't animals be slaughtered humanely?


Farm fishing practices are important, primarily in stopping the spread of disease, and in ensuring farmed fish do not escape netting, as they can wreak havoc on wild stock.  For an example, see the escape of farmed salmon from British Columbia fish farms.


Quote
They don't have an option of taking ten years so they will do something
temporary. You are doing the chicken little thing again.

I don't think the issue is the loss.  It is that no one was told what the real costs would be, and no one anticipated issues with Northern Ireland.  Given the bloodshed this particular issue has caused the UK in the past, this is not an insignificant issue, and it may be what scuttles Brexit.
Quote
You are just like the Democrats regarding Trump. They lost, they don't get a do-over for 4 years. Setting your hair on fire isn't going to solve things. Udachi!Bill


Don't take Breitbart so seriously.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2017, 03:21:00 PM
That's the thing with the Remainers (i.e Moby) Bill they just can't accept that they lost - though of course they don't get to do a do over in four years time, lol.

Brexit is basically here to stay, the slim Tory majority means they cannot alienate the Tory Leave section of the party which is basically the leadership & cabinet, etc. No one cares what the likes of Ken Clarke say these days as recent votes have shown he and the odd few Tory Remain MP'S are isolated and alone. The rest of the party has fallen behind the government. The country has voted for and is expecting Brexit.

Even with the slim loss in the referendum the Remain side cannot say they have a mandate to stay in the EU. Having 50 percent of the country voting to leave is too big a proportion of the country to ignore.

Were pretty much most of the way there now anyway, just the Brexit bill to finish off passing and conclusion of EU negotiations. I think a lot of objection to Brexit throughout the EU is down to the fact that if/when the UK leaves it produces a blueprint as to how other nations can do it. If the UK is seen to do as good as or better than under the EU other nations & it's people may start to consider leaving too.

I personally think the concept of the EU is a good idea if is just poorly executed. There should still be some controls over immigration and the EU should be under the control of its member nations not trying to control is member nations and form a European government. That's not what we want nor originally signed up to.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Boethius on December 06, 2017, 03:26:51 PM
Were pretty much most of the way there now anyway, just the Brexit bill to finish off passing and conclusion of EU negotiations. I think a lot of objection to Brexit throughout the EU is down to the fact that if/when the UK leaves it produces a blueprint as to how other nations can do it. If the UK is seen to do as good as or better than under the EU other nations & it's people may start to consider leaving too.


Are you really almost there?  The Tories can't pass legislation without DUP.


I don't think it could be a blueprint for other nations.  What other EU nations provide Germany and France with the levels of trade the UK does?  The UK has leverage other European nations do not have.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: ML on December 06, 2017, 03:56:10 PM
Not an expert here . . . but I expect a Brexit 'do over' vote with the public soon.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2017, 04:40:40 PM
Not an expert here . . . but I expect a Brexit 'do over' vote with the public soon.

I know Moby, the EU & Lib Dems (remember them  ;D ) plus some of Labour, Tony Blair, Ed Miliband, Remain activists, etc Have tried to argue this way ever since the referendum. I would be very surprised though and think it highly unlikely. Main reason it would threaten to make the situation worse not better. Imagine if Remain won by whatever margin, the Leave crowd would cry foul, they might then ask for a third referendum - best out of three? Lol. So it would solve nothing, the Tory party would be split, UKIP would be back in business taking votes of both Tories & Labour and whether we leave the EU would be a burning issue & distraction for years to come. Worst case scenario much social unrest.

Similarly we probably won't get a referendum on the agreement reached. This is a conundrum for both leave & remain. Remain looks like they would want it as a rerun of the referendum result. Leave would want to check that we ate not signing up to any ludicrous deal where we would pay the EU vast sums of money for free trade agreement for years to come when free trade benefits them just as much as us, if not more so.

Personally I think a rerun/referendum of any sort is of the table on this one. It will be decided & voted on in parliament and any element of the deal too extreme for either side will force Thereasa's hand to a moderate position. She will not want to alienate her own supporters the Tory Brexiteers they are crucial to her. The rest of the Tory party on the more pro EU side will not upset the apple cart if there is some sort of reasonable trade agreement, they know the way the wind is blowing and it's towards Brexit so they won't kick up a lot of fuss.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 06, 2017, 06:57:19 PM

I don't think the issue is the loss.  It is that no one was told what the real costs would be, and no one anticipated issues with Northern Ireland.  Given the bloodshed this particular issue has caused the UK in the past, this is not an insignificant issue, and it may be what scuttles Brexit.

Don't take Breitbart so seriously.


1/ Au contraire - 'we' were told that there'd be 'savings' of £350 million a week - a big red Leave bus made this their campaign slogan ... It was believed by sheeple voting 'leave'  - it 'forgot' sizeable rebates the UK had negotiated ( Thanks Mrs T and J. Major)

2/ The people of N.Ireland did anticipate - voting 'remain' - and I pointed this out long before the referendum.

3/ Well, Mrs May tried to slip in an 'agreement' giving N.Ireland a status that would allow it to remain part of the European Single market and freedom of movement for EU citizens - but that would mean effectively that it's people would have to show passports to go to the mainland ?!

Beel is simply demonstrating that he listens to a rather ignorant Mancunian - who doesn't like to be proven incorrect - with the Chicken Licken reference;)  The 'leave' campaign - successfully 'mocked' the remainers - calling such bleeding obvious scenarios ' project fear' ...

They are -mostly- already FACT... and we haven't even left, yet !

We are heading for a scenario where the deal David Cameron negotiated - and was pilloried for - will be FAR better than we end up with..

With 'respect' - there is a LOT of ignorant guff posted about 'Brexit' and not always by non-Brits; )







Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 06, 2017, 11:12:43 PM
Makes me laugh when some people say N.Ireland or Scotland voted remain in the referendum. Point being is that it was a national vote there was no regional vote on the matter. Votes may have been tallied up by region bit the vote was a national one. Cambridge for example voted remain but the vote overall is the only one that counts. Breaking it down by region is just ridiculous.

The single most issue people voted out was immigration from Eastern Europe. Before Blair lectin that crowd which he did not have to do but only to satisfy his ego the majority of people in the UK were in favour of the EU by a long way, perhaps only 20 percent if that supported leaving, UKIP and any talk of leaving were a joke. East European immigration was where Remain lost it. Why because it caused a massive strain on the already short supply of houses and caused a housing crises. The ears of the EU were completely oblivious to this. They give money to poorer members to help out their economy but they don't give assistance to rich economics who are experiencing housing severity caused by their freedom of movement policy. The people of Britain minus Moby said no we are not going to go on suffering this cr*p that the EU seemed to feel it perfectly acceptable for us to endure. We said we want to take back control of our borders and shut this problem out.

Every year the population of the UK increases by a large town/small city because of this east European immigration. We can't build a large town/small city to accommodate them each year. The problem is most acute in the south of England and this is where a lot of the Leave vote came from. We really didn't give a toss for Dave Cameron 's deal, the rebate or any other issue about whether it would save us money, etc. It was EU east European migration that was the real concern and what really won it for the Leave side.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 07, 2017, 04:46:29 AM
Makes me laugh when some people say N.Ireland or Scotland voted remain in the referendum. Point being is that it was a national vote there was no regional vote on the matter. Votes may have been tallied up by region bit the vote was a national one. Cambridge for example voted remain but the vote overall is the only one that counts. Breaking it down by region is just ridiculous.


Trench, this region of the UK has the power to bring down HMG - so - unlike you - I AM aware of relevance of parts of the UK objecting to being second class citizens and having to be subject to customs / border checks when travelling within the UK


The single most issue people voted out was immigration from Eastern Europe.

This always tickles me .. the very guys bemoaning such immigration looking to bring in a wife from further east ?..  Does your irony filter not twitch ever so slightly ? ..

   The people of Britain minus Moby said no we are not going to go on suffering this cr*p that the EU seemed to feel it perfectly acceptable for us to endure. We said we want to take back control of our borders and shut this problem out.

51-49 meant a lot of Moby's and the people voted on leaving the EU - not HOW .....  YOU say the biggest concern was E.European migrants - I think you'll find that folks fell for the 'savings' and control  bollox

Every year the population of the UK increases by a large town/small city because of this east European immigration. We can't build a large town/small city to accommodate them each year. The problem is most acute in the south of England and this is where a lot of the Leave vote came from. We really didn't give a toss for Dave Cameron 's deal, the rebate or any other issue about whether it would save us money, etc. It was EU east European migration that was the real concern and what really won it for the Leave side.

Well, even of you were correct - which you aren't - as usual - The vote made foreigners as welcome as farts in a space-suit and are leaving of their own accord and will be leaving in bigger numbers when the financial golden goose in London - which also voted to remain - ( it is in the south, right ? ) - starts loosing jobs..

The midlands and north voted to leave..  even the Nissan workers in he NE - like Turkeys - voted for xmas

Really, there was no need to keep proving the one stat that isn't disputed ... smarter, better educated folks voted to remain
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 07, 2017, 06:31:24 PM

Trench, this region of the UK has the power to bring down HMG - so - unlike you - I AM aware of relevance of parts of the UK objecting to being second class citizens and having to be subject to customs / border checks when travelling within the UK


This always tickles me .. the very guys bemoaning such immigration looking to bring in a wife from further east ?..  Does your irony filter not twitch ever so slightly ? ..

51-49 meant a lot of Moby's and the people voted on leaving the EU - not HOW .....  YOU say the biggest concern was E.European migrants - I think you'll find that folks fell for the 'savings' and control  bollox

Well, even of you were correct - which you aren't - as usual - The vote made foreigners as welcome as farts in a space-suit and are leaving of their own accord and will be leaving in bigger numbers when the financial golden goose in London - which also voted to remain - ( it is in the south, right ? ) - starts loosing jobs..

The midlands and north voted to leave..  even the Nissan workers in he NE - like Turkeys - voted for xmas

Really, there was no need to keep proving the one stat that isn't disputed ... smarter, better educated folks voted to remain

Mobe, if a guy wants to bring in a wife from wherever I would not have a problem with that nor I doubt many Britons its their right as a UK citizen. It is not the race of people but how many from a certain region and the grounds they are coming to the UK. If its open borders policy then it is very irresponsible. Off course people from poor countries are going to flood to rich countries if they are open borders policy, I don't blame them who wouldn't, but it has a catastrophic affect on that rich country. Furthermore, it tend to be the general public that are on the butt end off this affect, not the rich.

Most of the huge multinationals with all their vast wealth plowed vast sums into the Remain campaign believing that they would dictate through their massive donations how the public would voted. They were proved wrong, just :) They remain with their nose out of joint to this day that their money could not quite buy the referendum. They have the arrogance attitude that they think they can determine the policy of government and direction this country goes in and override the wishes of the people. They failed to understand that companies don't vote people do and if the people are not seeing the rosy picture put forward to them by the multinational, EU & Remain then they will go by what they are daily experiencing and vote no. I will be glad to see the 'golden goose' of the big financial institutions leave London & the UK, phew no longer will we have them meddling in our government and running of this country, dominating and dictating what happens and subverting democracy. No longer will we have credit crunch style idiocy on our very doorstep for the poor people to bear the burden of fixing from these so called 'super intelligent elite' who must be wonderfully remunerated for their f*ck ups only to tell others that they should be renumerated so as they know what they are doing, really? :wallbash:

The multinationals tried to threaten workers with their jobs, well some just didn't have jobs to threaten and most said no we are not going to be bullied and threatened by big multinationals so they get what they want in their interest and against ours just so they rake in millions while we all get McDonald's pay for doing skilled and technical jobs. I'm pretty sure you'll see things improve rapidly in this country after we finally get around to leaving. No longer will we have the big multinationals being the tail wagging the dog, we will no longer being under the heel off there oppression - off poor pay, off a pool of labour, off housing shortages.

The NI question is almost sorted it is not a big deal, NI is not a big deal. Few people in the rest of the UK care or even think about NI, they are not a big player or hold any interest in peoples lives. The real engine house of the UK is Southern England where I live :) the rest of the UK produces little and holds far less population, hence why the vote from southern England was so important in the referendum, its where a large proportion of the votes were and pretty much decided the outcome. Its also where immigration from Eastern Europe has been highest, anyway we said EU, F*ck U. Never have I been so pleased to see the establishment get a slap round the chops aghast that the little people had the audacity to tell them to shove it. The look on their faces was priceless, Cameron, Tusk, but most off all Jean Claude Juncker, I loved seeing every moment of it :D
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 08, 2017, 06:21:42 AM
Mobe, if a guy wants to bring in a wife from wherever I would not have a problem with that nor I doubt many Britons its their right as a UK citizen.

As usual - you're incorrect - it is not a right - if you are a UK citizen- to bring in your spouse / family - however - if you are an EU citizen - seeking to move freely in the EU - currently including the UK - it is !

You have already 'told' us that EU citizens moving freely is a problem to many - the single most reason for voting 'leave' - according to you  :ROFL:

It is not the race of people but how many from a certain region and the grounds they are coming to the UK. If its open borders policy then it is very irresponsible. Off course people from poor countries are going to flood to rich countries if they are open borders policy, I don't blame them who wouldn't, but it has a catastrophic affect on that rich country. Furthermore, it tend to be the general public that are on the butt end off this affect, not the rich.

More tosh - the NHS, agriculture and care homes - but  examples were glad of the workers - prepared to do crap jobs - lazy Brits won't ...

Most of the huge multinationals with all their vast wealth plowed [how American ! - hmm, a trolls mistake ? ] vast sums into the Remain campaign believing that they would dictate through their massive donations how the public would voted. They were proved wrong, just :)

IF you knew what you were talking about, you'd realise that 'interests' - for example seeking a weaker GBP - wanted a Brexit - know their industry would benefit ( e.g JCB ) and suggested their workers should vote leave

Then there was the funding of adverts and editorials by said 'interested parties' - plus the wishes of the DM's editor and Sun's owner's who want to be free from the EU's 'inference re their predominance in media ownership..you were MOST unwise to bring up this point, too ;)

I'm pretty sure you'll see things improve rapidly in this country after we finally get around to leaving.

Sure, let's 'forget' the high paid ciy jobs and associated crumbs flalloing from the table we WILL lose ..

The NI question is almost sorted it is not a big deal, NI is not a big deal.

This simply proves you just don't HAVE a clue....   As I've long pointed out the N.I question is one of the THREE biggest stalling points - along with EU citizen's rights in the UK and the amount of dosh we had to pay for buget commitments

Two out of three are sorted - ( apparently - if you read today's news - the UK govt has agreed the money and the rights of EU citizens already in the UK) the NI question my still remain - but the UK govt has assured us that there'll be no 'hard border'

IF that is true  there'll be no disparity in taxes / duties and freedom of moment - so 'good luck' if the UK govt tries to implement border controls  between N.I and G.B...



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BC on December 08, 2017, 10:52:49 AM
Well Trench, looks like all those immigrants are there to stay along with anyone else that wanders in till the doors are closed in 2019.  They'll be free to get residency even afterwards, come and go as they please and even import their families after Brexit.  Plenty of time left to pack bags and head west unhindered. There will probably be a mad rush at the end. UK folks living in EU will likely be pretty much stuck in country they reside aside from vacations and such.  Around 40 Billion GBP divorce settlement and huge costs for a decade at least thereafter to re-arrange things 'your way'.  N.Ireland will remain practically unchanged, but yeah you don't care about them anyway so what the heck.

Is that really worth it all?  Where did the plus side go? Did I miss something?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 08, 2017, 11:22:45 AM
Main thing is once the door is shut then we are safely outside the EU and protected from East European migration like we used to be. Of course its not all done then and of course we will have to accept those already here, we knew that and accepted that already. Its likely that we will get a reasonable trade deal without being tied to freedom of movement as we are already aligned with the EU on the regulation side of trade. So maybe a trade deal with the EU like Ukraine has. What we will be able to do is do trade deals with other nations more readily. I think whatever way you cut it our economy will do better out of leaving the EU. I'll hand back over to Moby now for another remoan ;D
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BC on December 08, 2017, 11:55:04 AM
Eh?  Anything is more expensive than free trade or?  UK trade with EU can't get much better than the current status quo.. or?  As I see it, it's not about what the UK will gain from adding trade borders, but more about lessening what it will lose.  In fact, you'll probably be even come out worse off with other world trade partners that will insist you buy all their crap in order to sell yours.  UK will not be bargaining from a position of power and running into walls of dual and triple standard regulations... Want to sell widgets? making a US version AND an EU version sounds very expensive to me.  Sell chickens and beef to EU freely?  forget it after Brexit, you'll be forced to import everything banned in EU and controls will be very very tight.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/06/trump-ross-says-uk-us-trade-deal-eu-brexit-chlorinated-chicken
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/37253/how-will-uk-meat-exports-face-challenges-following-eu-exit-vote/

much much more to come.. that's for sure.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: 2tallbill on December 08, 2017, 07:31:48 PM

I don't think those studies are beyond the pale.  The same exists in North America, and why shouldn't it?  Shouldn't animals be slaughtered humanely?


Farm fishing practices are important, primarily in stopping the spread of disease, and in ensuring farmed fish do not escape netting, as they can wreak havoc on wild stock.  For an example, see the escape of farmed salmon from British Columbia fish farms.


I don't think the issue is the loss.  It is that no one was told what the real costs would be, and no one anticipated issues with Northern Ireland.  Given the bloodshed this particular issue has caused the UK in the past, this is not an insignificant issue, and it may be what scuttles Brexit.

Don't take Breitbart so seriously.


NONE of this was from Breitbart, if it was I would have provided a link to it.
I do admit I made up the size of the holes in waffles part to be funny, but only
managed to entertain myself.

I do think it will be tricky and I do think that it will be difficult. I just don't
think that the sky will fall. I believe at the end of the day, the politicians
will make it work out. Do you really think that Germany doesn't want
access to the UK market?

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 08, 2017, 09:17:58 PM
I just don't
think that the sky will fall.

Beel, Beel, my dear chap.

Do you KNOW how many Banks and Financial institutions will leave if their EU staff can't move freely ?  Some programmers you know are working for banks in Ireland for a reason !

How much the City of London is about to lose as it was the 'Wall Street' of Euro trading' ?

The Sky was already falling in and we have a crapper deal than if we'd taken  Cameron's deal with the EU ...pre Brexit vote  (

Mass suicide by Lemmings has already been committed and the only good thing is that I already had an Irish passport

Can you imagine - a certain Mancunian chap - who we know - is adopting a very former Soviet attitude and ensuring my 'told you so'' - re the N.Ireland Question - ensuring there'd be no 'hard Brexit' - doesn't sw
ee the light of day.

'Chicken Licken' was right - the Sky was falling in - but it has been stopped from total collapse - but at tremendous cost.

What a waste of money. Now the UK has no voting rights and still has to comply with the rules of the club to import / export to/from her biggest market ... and you might think that's 'smart' ?



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 08, 2017, 09:55:31 PM
Main thing is once the door is shut then we are safely outside the EU and protected from East European migration like we used to be. Of course its not all done then and of course we will have to accept those already here, we knew that and accepted that already. Its likely that we will get a reasonable trade deal without being tied to freedom of movement as we are already aligned with the EU on the regulation side of trade. So maybe a trade deal with the EU like Ukraine has. What we will be able to do is do trade deals with other nations more readily. I think whatever way you cut it our economy will do better out of leaving the EU. I'll hand back over to Moby now for another remoan ;D

You'll hand over to Moby for another pulling apart - more like ;)

The deal now allows the very people you 'fear' to continue to come - note they had already stopped coming - given the weak Pound ..( Immigration was WAY down - even though current immigration rules still ensured freedom of movement) - thus proving the UK stopped being 'attractive'.

I'm not proud of being from a nation that relied on immigration to be 'Great' and has become insular, ignorant and racist. Discouraging bright, hard working people is plain STUPID.

You really need to stay away from E.European people, Trench - you don't 'get' them and they are all 'bad' for you ))





Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 09, 2017, 09:14:57 AM
You'll hand over to Moby for another pulling apart - more like ;)

The deal now allows the very people you 'fear' to continue to come - note they had already stopped coming - given the weak Pound ..( Immigration was WAY down - even though current immigration rules still ensured freedom of movement) - thus proving the UK stopped being 'attractive'.

I'm not proud of being from a nation that relied on immigration to be 'Great' and has become insular, ignorant and racist. Discouraging bright, hard working people is plain STUPID.

You really need to stay away from E.European people, Trench - you don't 'get' them and they are all 'bad' for you ))

Well I don't class Russians & Ukrainians as East Europeans, I think its more a US term, I only class those from the former Eastern Bloc Countries as East Europeans. I would class Russians, Ukrainians wither as Russians or Slavs but not reall East Europeans as they are generally outside of Europe.

Interestingly, Poland is one of those countries that do not allow dual nationality so they are going to be forced to choose come March 2019. If they go for UK citizenship they will have to give up the citizenship of Poland their home country. How many will be willing to have their stay restricted in their country of birth in order to gain British citizenship should be interesting to see. My guess is that unless Poland changes to allow dual citizenship which they may but at the moment I doubt we could see a fair number return around Brexit time.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BC on December 09, 2017, 10:37:48 AM
Well I don't class Russians & Ukrainians as East Europeans, I think its more a US term, I only class those from the former Eastern Bloc Countries as East Europeans. I would class Russians, Ukrainians wither as Russians or Slavs but not reall East Europeans as they are generally outside of Europe.

Interestingly, Poland is one of those countries that do not allow dual nationality so they are going to be forced to choose come March 2019. If they go for UK citizenship they will have to give up the citizenship of Poland their home country. How many will be willing to have their stay restricted in their country of birth in order to gain British citizenship should be interesting to see. My guess is that unless Poland changes to allow dual citizenship which they may but at the moment I doubt we could see a fair number return around Brexit time.

UK citizenship would not be very appealing, unless they really wanted it no one would be forcing them to apply.  They could just remain EU citizens living in UK.  Meanwhile, many UK folks are seeking EU citizenship.  Applications for Irish citizenship are way up since Brexit rumbling began. Those living in EU will also likely apply if they can meet the requirements.

I still see no upside whatsoever.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Boethius on December 09, 2017, 03:45:38 PM
Well I don't class Russians & Ukrainians as East Europeans


If Ukraine is not part of Eastern Europe, what is it?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: JayH on December 09, 2017, 05:45:42 PM

If Ukraine is not part of Eastern Europe, what is it?

Please, can you ask him a simpler question? You know how difficult it is for him to understand the most basic questions !! :cluebat:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: ML on December 09, 2017, 05:57:41 PM

If Ukraine is not part of Eastern Europe, what is it?

Ukraine is part of the land mass west of the Asian continent.
Most people call that land mass Europe, but apparently some do not.

Most consider the Ural Mountains to be the dividing line between Europe and Asia; but apparently some do not.

Typically when two continents collide, a mountain range is created.
This is the source of the Ural Mountains . . . or perhaps the Ural Mountains were formed from the slag heaps of mining operations.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Doll on December 09, 2017, 06:08:26 PM
Ukraine is part of the land mass west of the Asian continent.
 

Seriously?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Doll on December 09, 2017, 06:25:53 PM
 here
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Boethius on December 09, 2017, 07:18:37 PM
Doesn’t your map prove ML’s point?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 09, 2017, 08:13:36 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Continental_models-Australia.gif/1280px-Continental_models-Australia.gif)

As you can see in the animation, definitions of continents/land masses vary from 4 to 7. How they are further subdivided is mostly dependent on history and cultural traditions ;). 
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 10, 2017, 12:35:07 AM
referring to her map

You'd better not tell the Cypriots or even Georgians that they aren't European ))  ....  Even the Aussies think they can join in the Singing contests !  :cheesy:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 10, 2017, 10:14:46 AM
Eh? Anything is more expensive than free trade or?  UK trade with EU can't get much better than the current status quo.. or?  As I see it, it's not about what the UK will gain from adding trade borders, but more about lessening what it will lose.  In fact, you'll probably be even come out worse off with other world trade partners that will insist you buy all their crap in order to sell yours.  UK will not be bargaining from a position of power and running into walls of dual and triple standard regulations... Want to sell widgets? making a US version AND an EU version sounds very expensive to me.  Sell chickens and beef to EU freely?  forget it after Brexit, you'll be forced to import everything banned in EU and controls will be very very tight.
http://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/06/trump-ross-says-uk-us-trade-deal-eu-brexit-chlorinated-chicken
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/poultrynews/37253/how-will-uk-meat-exports-face-challenges-following-eu-exit-vote/

much much more to come.. that's for sure.

It can, it can charge a tariff to EU firms wanting to import here. A 10 percent tariff would bring in a lot of money for the government. Currently the UK gov gets nothing in its coffers and all is supported by UK taxpayers. A 10 percent import tax is nothing to these rich multinationals who cry out for hard up UK taxpayers to support their freebie of free trade.

Or shall we sit back to see rich multinationals get richer and the general public become serfs under their foot.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: ML on December 10, 2017, 10:49:43 AM
Or shall we sit back to see rich multinationals get richer and the general public become serfs under their foot.

Multinationals or any company does not get richer.

Companies are owned by Stockholders, or Partners, or Sole Proprietors.
Those persons get richer or poorer depending on performance of the firms.

Many persons, particularly those opposed to a free market economy like to use words in a derogatory manner.

In my many years involved in consulting, expansions, mergers, acquisitions, etc. the most often words thrown around in a derogatory manner are:  conglomerate, multinational, foreign owned.

These simple words have taken on a negative meaning not unlike pedophile, etc.

On a related note:  I have relatives who have mostly performed blue collar work their entire lives.  Of course they constantly complain how the 'terrible company' they work for makes tons of money but pay their workers little.  I tell them a simple way to partake in the riches is to buy stock in the company.  This usually shuts them up.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 10, 2017, 03:12:27 PM
It can, it can charge a tariff to EU firms wanting to import here. A 10 percent tariff would bring in a lot of money for the government. Currently the UK gov gets nothing in its coffers and all is supported by UK taxpayers. A 10 percent import tax is nothing to these rich multinationals who cry out for hard up UK taxpayers to support their freebie of free trade.


You utter pillock..  They'll charge us, too - AND move the factories someone else

Or shall we sit back to see rich multinationals get richer and the general public become serfs under their foot.


You already voted stupid and played STRAIGHT into the hands of those who simply sought to line their pockets with a cheaper GBP ....
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 10, 2017, 05:00:38 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/97/Continental_models-Australia.gif/1280px-Continental_models-Australia.gif)

As you can see in the animation, definitions of continents/land masses vary from 4 to 7. How they are further subdivided is mostly dependent on history and cultural traditions ;).

What about Zealandia, now agreed by the scientific community to be the eighth continent?  Your map needs updating!  :D
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: 2tallbill on December 11, 2017, 09:48:23 AM
Beel, Beel, my dear chap.

USA exports goods to the UK and we don't vote in anything there.
The sky isn't going to fall, the politicians can talk the talk but they
can't walk the walk. Angela Merkel will get tossed out of office if
her tough talk loses 2% of the UK market, which it will if she doesn't
pucker up and kiss @ss when the negotiations start.

German businessmen won't let her f#ck up a huge market for them.
UK citizens won't buy German goods if the Germans want to punish
them. It's just human nature.

If Ms May had any brains she would preempt this and have a meeting
with German business people who ship things to the UK asking them
what they think that the new tariffs and import limitations should be.
It could just be an exploratory meeting to get their input.

Every time that Ms Merkel decides to talk tough, quote her and send
every single quote to the business people that she had the exploratory
meeting with. Those same business people will spank Ms Merkel with
such ferocity that she won't be able to sit down for a week. 

Ms May could pick a German company each week, say a tool company,
then a drug company and announce what British company they compete
with. Then rhetorically ask the British people which company they will buy
from if Angela Merkel doesn't shut up the hell up and spread her legs. 

Each of those companies will lose 10% of their share value overnight and
each of them will know that it's only the beginning unless Ms Merkel changes
her tune.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BC on December 11, 2017, 10:41:47 AM
USA exports goods to the UK and we don't vote in anything there.
The sky isn't going to fall, the politicians can talk the talk but they
can't walk the walk. Angela Merkel will get tossed out of office if
her tough talk loses 2% of the UK market, which it will if she doesn't
pucker up and kiss @ss when the negotiations start.

Bill,

EU folks selling to UK will have no problem as the standards are almost always more strict.  The US is saying to the UK that they will have to import US goods in any trade deal, even if such was not possible under EU rules.  That alone will make it difficult for UK to export anything to EU as it will have to be certified to EU standards before crossing the border.  An example, hormone-treated beef.  The US desperately wants to export this beef to EU but can't because most will not meet EU standards.  Once import begins, all UK beef will be suspect and certification processes required to track and differentiate by origin.  Same for stock feed and a bunch of other goods.  GMO stock feed, or any other GMO goods, for example, would be a troubling issue.  This is only the beginning of the iceberg. 

Warnings are already out there..  http://ec.europa.eu/food/sites/food/files/plant/docs/gmo_notice_business_operators-art50_201709.pdf

Bottom line, export to EU will become a time consuming, expensive, complicated process for UK as all their goods would become 'suspect' if a UK US trade deal goes through without restrictions.  This is also why N. Ireland is such a sticky issue.  With a soft border, they will have to maintain EU standards, with US imports and even imports from UK.  If UK can't exclude N. Ireland from a deal with the US, no deal will be possible.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 11, 2017, 02:03:00 PM

You utter pillock..  They'll charge us, too - AND move the factories someone else


You already voted stupid and played STRAIGHT into the hands of those who simply sought to line their pockets with a cheaper GBP ....

They can only charge so much, most of these companies will either be up against domestic competitor in the UK or International competitors trading in the UK. They will most likely absorb the cost. German products for example are overpriced, have been for a long time, sure they are often good quality though I'm beginning to doubt that they are as good a quality as they used to be. They charge a premium for this but I dare say there is a lot of profit taking that could be squeezed here/ Gov has to get more money in to get itself out of the financial hole it is currently in, this could be the place to do it.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 13, 2017, 01:30:42 AM
 
Quote from: trenchcoat
They can only charge so much, most of these companies will either be up against domestic competitor in the UK or International competitors trading in the UK. They will most likely absorb the cost.

With every post - you simply prove you are EXACTLY the sort of 'Brexit' voter I so often refer to - 'unthinking' - even when the evidence of 'project fear's' predictions of a mass exodus are already happening - all those Euro trading jobs - just being the first example

 
Quote from: trenchcoat
German products for example are overpriced, have been for a long time, sure they are often good quality though I'm beginning to doubt that they are as good a quality as they used to be. They charge a premium for this but I dare say there is a lot of profit taking that could be squeezed here/ Gov has to get more money in to get itself out of the financial hole it is currently in, this could be the place to do it.

German, Irish, Finnish, French (et al ) products are in EUROs...  The GBP fell on Brexit [ edited to 'correct' - when it was possible 'we' might actually vote 'leave' - it recovered when remain was thought likely to win - then fell back - drastically, again ..on the result - falling further which each daft pronouncement, re 'hard brexits'  ] - EXACTLY what the JCBs of this world WANTED ....   Are 'we' benefiting ? Of course not - as we IMPORT and must now pay more..

IF this is the place to be - why are banks planning to move out of London ?
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues - a pause for sanity
Post by: msmob on December 13, 2017, 11:44:59 PM
Well, well, Trenchy

Those seeking  a 'hard brexit' were busy telling folks that the EU talks re Brexit were just 'placating words' ...

Now they are telling us the bloody nose they got - a defeat in the Commons for Mrs May's daftness - from her own party members - is 'not serious'

Tory Brexit rebels inflict major defeat on Theresa May


http://www.theguardian.com
/politics/2017/dec/13/tory-brexit
-rebels-inflict-major-defeat-on-theresa-may?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=GU+
Today+main+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=256508&subid
=18584627&CMP=EMCNEWEML6619I2 (http://www.theguardian.com
/politics/2017/dec/13/tory-brexit-rebels
-inflict-major-defeat-on-theresa-may?utm_source
=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_
campaign=GU+Today+main
+NEW+H+categories&utm_term=256508&subid
=18584627&CMP=
EMCNEWEML6619I2)

Unless the Tories wake up and ditch her and the continued fantasy of a 'hard Brexit' - we're going to have Corbyn as PM - now that IS SCARY
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: ML on December 16, 2017, 11:17:34 AM
German products for example are overpriced, have been for a long time, sure they are often good quality

I agree, especially in case of automobiles.
Japanese cars regularly are rated higher in quality than competing German models and cost less, sometimes tens of thousands less at top end.
Lexus quality is rated higher than any German competitor and costs less.

Note: I haven't kept up such ratings the past few years, but I doubt anything has changed.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2017, 12:36:05 PM
But German cars, though exported, are engineered for the German market, where people change cars frequently.


My cousin is a mechanic.  He says German cars are very well engineered, as well as Japanese cars.  The difference, he tells me, is they don't last as long.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues - a pause for sanity
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 16, 2017, 01:25:39 PM
Well, well, Trenchy

Those seeking  a 'hard brexit' were busy telling folks that the EU talks re Brexit were just 'placating words' ...

Now they are telling us the bloody nose they got - a defeat in the Commons for Mrs May's daftness - from her own party members - is 'not serious'

Tory Brexit rebels inflict major defeat on Theresa May


Unless the Tories wake up and ditch her and the continued fantasy of a 'hard Brexit' - we're going to have Corbyn as PM - now that IS SCARY

I don't think this changes anything/anything will change. Who on the Tory party would want Mrs May's position at this point in time - next to none. They would have to deal with all the Brexit fuss and be heavily under fire themselves, it would be an ordeal few would relish. Please one side of the Tory party and alienate another. Be on one side of the Tory party and you have to deal with the other. Even if you were somewhat in the centre you would have rebels on either wing of the party. I foresee Theresa being PM throughout the entire Brexit process there is little point replacing her successor would have to deal with exactly the same issues.

There will not be another election until after March 2019. The Tories got another 5 year term so they know they are best served by sticking in there despite holding a tiny majority. The DUP will keep them in government for as long as the Tories like during this 5 year term. They DUP are doing well out of the deal they cut with the Tories. If they decide to pull the plug they will be tripping themselves up, If the Tories or Labour get an outright majority in another election the DUP will hold sway over nothing, they will lose the power they currently have.

It's simple Mobe when you think it through ;) The Brexit process is proceeding the vote passed an amendment to the bill it did not trash the bill. That amendment will go through to the Lords & before long we will have the Brexit bill passed. The EU negotiations are half way through. We will have to wait and see what the final deal the EU will find acceptable. The defeat for Theresa May could be seen to go both ways. It could be an attempt by Remainers to try to reverse Brexit or it could be a way of ensuring both Leave & Remainers get a chance to object to a deal that they find unpalatable and on their eyes wrong.

For example I was against the idea thar the UK pay the EU an ongoing sum for free trade access to the EU since it is in the EU's interest to free trade with us why should we pay them, ludicrous. It would be poor taxpayers payin for rich companies to have free trade access which just isn't on. Many Brexiteers felt the same way about this. I personally think it will all play out eventually with a moderate deal that all sides will find reasonable enough even if the don't wholy agree with it. If not a no deal option will be the only alternative I though have no hang up with that.

Cars I have had both German and Japanese, they are both well engineered/built. Both usually require the odd fix of this or that along the way. I would say though that German cars seem expensive beyond there good build credentials. Japanese cars have similar quality for a lot less.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on December 16, 2017, 02:38:49 PM
Well no, Trenchy,

thanks for demonstrating YET ANOTHER subject on which you are simply CLUELESS

Mrs May called the last general election to get a mandate for a 'hard brexit' and now needs the DUP to survive - having LOST seats..

Having the DUP as king-makers means there will be NO hard Brexit... :deadhorse:

As ever, you simply cannot / will not read - from FSU ( women in general) and in SO many other subjects - you simply need to pay attention..

IF May goes now and Ruth Davidson became PM - that's about the only scenario that will stop the Tories losing seats at by-elections that WILL happen over five years - let alone the DUP -  abandoning their support..

 



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on December 16, 2017, 04:55:31 PM
Well no, Trenchy,

thanks for demonstrating YET ANOTHER subject on which you are simply CLUELESS

Mrs May called the last general election to get a mandate for a 'hard brexit' and now needs the DUP to survive - having LOST seats..

Having the DUP as king-makers means there will be NO hard Brexit... :deadhorse:

As ever, you simply cannot / will not read - from FSU ( women in general) and in SO many other subjects - you simply need to pay attention..

IF May goes now and Ruth Davidson became PM - that's about the only scenario that will stop the Tories losing seats at by-elections that WILL happen over five years - let alone the DUP -  abandoning their support..

Mobe, your forgetting that you potentially have by elections on Labour seats as well as Tory. Eventually her majority may ebb away but remember how long John Major clung on in a similar position - All five years. I'm no Tory voter or supporter,  never have been or will be, I am a Brexiteer though :) Labour I don't think have if right at the moment either. I really don't see anything getting in the way of Brexit either. May is likely to remain throughout he Brexit process removing her would be too problematic during the process. Tories generally as a whole seem happy enough with her there are none that are ranting in protest at the Brexit to come so far. I think you are looking at possibilities that are unlikely to ever occur.

Ruth Davidson, I thought that was a Rhino ;D She's nowhere in sight at them moment, maybe years down the line but at the moment she remains a Scottish thing remote from Englander thinking.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Anotherkiwi on December 16, 2017, 09:57:01 PM
But German cars, though exported, are engineered for the German market, where people change cars frequently.

As far as I'm aware, Japanese people change their cars more often than Europeans because of their punishing tax system.  This is why there is such a huge industry involving exporting used Japanese cars, often only a year or two old, to other markets (such as New Zealand).

My cousin is a mechanic.  He says German cars are very well engineered, as well as Japanese cars.  The difference, he tells me, is they don't last as long.

Which don't last as long?  I own a BMW now, and I've owned various Japanese cars in the past.  All of them have survived to a ripe old age.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Boethius on December 16, 2017, 10:25:59 PM
Cousin tells me Toyotas last longer than any other car on the market.  There are VW's that last long, mostly Beetles, but the Toyota is the workhorse of the market.


Germans also change their cars frequently, partly because there are tax incentives in buying German made cars, and very strict standards in terms of maintenance.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: BillyB on December 17, 2017, 03:01:16 AM
As far as I'm aware, Japanese people change their cars more often than Europeans because of their punishing tax system.  This is why there is such a huge industry involving exporting used Japanese cars, often only a year or two old, to other markets (such as New Zealand).


The tough and costly inspection process discourages people from keeping their old cars.

http://enginesfromjapan.blogspot.com/


Cousin tells me Toyotas last longer than any other car on the market.  There are VW's that last long, mostly Beetles, but the Toyota is the workhorse of the market.



All automobile manufactures have the ability to design their cars to drive over a million miles. They can't make money if people aren't getting them repaired. Each manufacture has engineers that do destructive testing. They try to make car parts last longer than the warranty but not too much longer after that.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 01, 2018, 02:07:38 AM
Happy New Year, Beel !

As part of your New Years's enlightenment about 'Brexit' and why it cannot be complete.

The negotiators on the UK side ARE 'weak' .... they cannot dealwith part of the UK having a haerd border with the EU.. Eire ( rep of Ireland ) and N.Ireland

I would have thought post 105 made that clear.

The UK voters were sold something that simply couldn't happen as long as that border remained open

For that reason ANYONE suggesting a complete or 'hard Brexit' ( leaving with no deals re trade / immigration, etc., in place ) was always ignorant or a fibber.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 01, 2018, 11:12:41 PM
Happy New Year, Beel !

As part of your New Years's enlightenment about 'Brexit' and why it cannot be complete.

The negotiators on the UK side ARE 'weak' .... they cannot dealwith part of the UK having a haerd border with the EU.. Eire ( rep of Ireland ) and N.Ireland

I would have thought post 105 made that clear.

The UK voters were sold something that simply couldn't happen as long as that border remained open

For that reason ANYONE suggesting a complete or 'hard Brexit' ( leaving with no deals re trade / immigration, etc., in place ) was always ignorant or a fibber.

Moby, unless your part of the UK negotiations team to the EU you won't know if the UK negotiators are weak because you won't know what is going on until after they have finished negotiating. Besidesthat stuff we ate really just do getting to before Christmas they just agreed to an open border. It looks like regardless the deal with the rest of the UK and the EU Ireland will be assured of an open border for people and most likely trade. It will essentially be a back door for immigration/emigration into and out of the UK not just because of the Good Friday agreement but more so because of the Common Travel Area the UK struck with Ireland when it became independent which still resins in force to this day. That said I think there will be passport checking when crossing over from Ireland/Northern Ireland to the UK mainland. That and I don't think many will use it as an immigration/emigration route at least not enmasse. Generally I think at ghe end of ghe day if there is any real difference with the deal the rest of the UK get it will just be accepted that if will be something that will have to be muddled along with as another quirk between national agreements and not worth taking issue over. If anything it's likely to provide some relief to those who still want to access the EU after Brexit whilst making it not as easy a path into the UK from Eastern EU.

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 01:56:09 AM
Moby, unless your part of the UK negotiations team to the EU you won't know if the UK negotiators are weak because you won't know what is going on until after they have finished negotiating.



I see the new year has further clouded your brain (

IF you read, and absorbed what I wrote - you'd realise that what I pointed out before the vote AND after and especially after the DUP were needed to prop up the now minority govt - is that Northern Ireland's having a 'border' ( no immigration or customs ) with an EU state was always going to mean the UK had to have an open border... that's NO border controls - therefore how can one implement special duties / immigration rules on one EU state to keep the UK 'happy' ?


That clearly make the UK negotiating team 'weak' an the EU knew and knows it ..  I'm already seeing STUPID posts from 'leave' voters demanding 'border and customs controls' from N.Ireland )))  Perhaps you 'think' like them, too ?

'Sorry' - but the rest of your post was bollox - based on the FACT - that if you don't 'get' the N.I problem - and SO many still don't - you cannot be helped ..

ALL we have done is vote to leave the EU - but must obey many rules re immigration / customs, etc., without being AT the table to help set the rules...

'real smart' ..

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 11:55:30 AM


I see the new year has further clouded your brain (

IF you read, and absorbed what I wrote - you'd realise that what I pointed out before the vote AND after and especially after the DUP were needed to prop up the now minority govt - is that Northern Ireland's having a 'border' ( no immigration or customs ) with an EU state was always going to mean the UK had to have an open border... that's NO border controls - therefore how can one implement special duties / immigration rules on one EU state to keep the UK 'happy' ?


That clearly make the UK negotiating team 'weak' an the EU knew and knows it ..  I'm already seeing STUPID posts from 'leave' voters demanding 'border and customs controls' from N.Ireland )))  Perhaps you 'think' like them, too ?

'Sorry' - but the rest of your post was bollox - based on the FACT - that if you don't 'get' the N.I problem - and SO many still don't - you cannot be helped ..

ALL we have done is vote to leave the EU - but must obey many rules re immigration / customs, etc., without being AT the table to help set the rules...

'real smart' ..

Mobe, I'm pretty sure the case will be that you will have to just show your passport when you board a ferry or plane to go to the UK mainland from Ireland/Northern Ireland. It will just not be stamped or booked onto their border control system. So in effect it will work the same as when you get on a ferry at present to go across to France, it doesn't matter that we are in the EU you still have to show your passport or you will be denied boarding.

So in effect this won't be classed as formal border control (its an indirect border control) its just there to check who you are and you are who you say you are. Each nation has always reserved the right to check a person's identity/ask for Passport ID or whatever anyplace they like within their borders at their discretion, its just that they only tend to do so if they need to for a particular reason. No I don't think there will be checks of any kind at the Northern Ireland border, at most they may just have occasional irregular spot checks to monitor the situation but essentially people will pass through freely.

Since you are aware of the Cyprus situation I think you will find it will be rather like that if not even more laid back, i.e no border official at all on the Northern Ireland border, people will just move freely back and forth.

Don't worry about being at tables, people make big on this but in reality if we are an independent nation they have to negotiate with us if they want access to our country and our markets, which they do - our economy is just to big for them to ignore. They might think of bullying one of their smaller weaker members into submission to make them back down but if they ignore us their economy would suffer too chiefly France, Germany and Poland. Both sides know that it is in their interests to get a deal done so they will do. The Tories don't want to be revisiting the EU issue again as it splits their party so they will be interested in getting a deal done so they can get away from all of that.   

By the same token they also will want to try and avoid a deal that is too far away from open borders for the whole of the UK as it will mean giving too much scope for an ongoing open borders campaign to keep banging on - an unwanted distraction many of us don't want to hear remoaning over ;D
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 04:08:03 PM
Mobe, I'm pretty sure the case will be that you will have to just show your passport when you board a ferry or plane to go to the UK mainland from Ireland/Northern Ireland.

 :ROFL: :ROFL:

I stopped reading after that... You just keep on posting daft ..

 The current minority UK govt is being held together by... the Democratic UNIONist Party ..

IF  you think they'd accept showing passports and being subject to a customs check crossing to the mainland - you are either INSANE or DELUDED..



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 06:52:16 PM
:ROFL: :ROFL:

I stopped reading after that... You just keep on posting daft ..

 The current minority UK govt is being held together by... the Democratic UNIONist Party ..

IF  you think they'd accept showing passports and being subject to a customs check crossing to the mainland - you are either INSANE or DELUDED..

Its not just the UK government that will want it shown it will be the ferry companies and airlines as part of their company policy. They need to know who and what they are taking on board as they are responsible for the transit. So it may not be an actual border official that looks at the passport the UK gov will likely just pass that responsibility onto the ferry or airline company. They may already do so but if not this is how it is likely to be.

The DUP have to accept some reasonable working of this situation at the end of the day. The UK gov cannot have a fully open back door immigration situation and they cannot have a hard border since this would not be acceptable to the DUP or Labour. If the DUP are really after scuppering the EU Brexit deal then I think it likely that the Tories will just toss it over to Labour, agree with the majority of any amendments they wish to make and then Labour will vote it through with the Tories. Labour already voted with the Tories in the early stages of the Brexit bill so I think as long as its not too far off base Labour will vote through the final bill. My guess is that the DUP will fall into line when they see that the deal put forward to them is the only conceivable deal available and not too abhorrent to their situation. The DUP may like to make big off their situation but end of the day if push really did come to shove it would be either an end of the two year and no deal automatic Brexit with hard borders that the DUP most don't want or a general election that could see the DUP out of power and Labour in, but even they will probably accept that a fully open back door policy will not work. If the Tories come back in then they will only likely do so with a working majority in that circumstance.   
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 10:40:37 PM
Its not just the UK government that will want it shown it will be the ferry companies and airlines as part of their company policy.

Pray tell, Trench - how often do you make journeys to N.I and / or Eire  from Great Britain?  AFAIK only Ryanair insist on a passport as ID - it is not a legal requirement 

As ever, it's time you stopped posting daft and walking onto punches from folks that simply know better..

Suggest you read about the Common Travel Area  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area)

You REALLY need to subscribe to Wiki  - having checked the source materials used


The DUP have to accept some reasonable working of this situation at the end of the day.

No, they don't ..The are a pro-Brexit, pro-Union party that ensures the continuation of ( the current ) HM govt ..they are the King-makers... WAKE UP and smell the coffee..the moment Theresa May needed their support .. after calling a General Election - and losing seats - rather than gaining a 'mandate' for a 'hard Brexit' - as a negotiating stance - a hard border and 'hard Brexit'  was finished....the result weakened the UK negotiators stance... This REALLY is 101 stuff...But it's'OK' - you are not alone... You have Mrs May and some of her Cabinet on your side...;)

The UK gov cannot have a fully open back door immigration situation and they cannot have a hard border since this would not be acceptable to the DUP or Labour. If the DUP are really after scuppering the EU Brexit deal then I think it likely that the Tories will just toss it over to Labour, agree with the majority of any amendments they wish to make and then Labour will vote it through with the Tories. Labour already voted with the Tories in the early stages of the Brexit bill so I think as long as its not too far off base Labour will vote through the final bill. My guess is that the DUP will fall into line when they see that the deal put forward to them is the only conceivable deal available and not too abhorrent to their situation. The DUP may like to make big off their situation but end of the day if push really did come to shove it would be either an end of the two year and no deal automatic Brexit with hard borders that the DUP most don't want or a general election that could see the DUP out of power and Labour in, but even they will probably accept that a fully open back door policy will not work. If the Tories come back in then they will only likely do so with a working majority in that circumstance.   

My 'guess' is that you simply don't have a clue...   We have already seen that the govt. can lose on key votes on Brexit - a  clear warning.. If you imagine the DUP would accept a hard border OR having a lessor status in the Union - you need a long lie down in a dark room...  You simply DO NOT understand ..They'd allow the govt to fall, first
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 02, 2018, 10:57:03 PM
Pray tell, Trench - how often do you make journeys to N.I and / or Eire  from Great Britain?  AFAIK only Ryanair insist on a passport as ID - it is not a legal requirement 

As ever, it's time you stopped posting daft and walking onto punches from folks that simply know better..

Suggest you read about the Common Travel Area  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Travel_Area)

You REALLY need to subscribe to Wiki  - having checked the source materials used


No, they don't ..The are a pro-Brexit, pro-Union party that ensures the continuation of ( the current ) HM govt ..they are the King-makers... WAKE UP and smell the coffee..the moment Theresa May needed their support .. after calling a General Election - and losing seats - rather than gaining a 'mandate' for a 'hard Brexit' - as a negotiating stance - a hard border and 'hard Brexit'  was finished....the result weakened the UK negotiators stance... This REALLY is 101 stuff...But it's'OK' - you are not alone... You have Mrs May and some of her Cabinet on your side...;)

My 'guess' is that you simply don't have a clue...   We have already seen that the govt. can lose on key votes on Brexit - a  clear warning.. If you imagine the DUP would accept a hard border OR having a lessor status in the Union - you need a long lie down in a dark room...  You simply DO NOT understand ..They'd allow the govt to fall, first

Exactly or the airline or ferry will refuse you entry, it will be on the terms of your ticket. I think post Brexit they will all be like Ryanair. Amendments and even a delay of Brexit will be made to make the necessary changes and get a deal done even if it means going back to the electorate for another General Election. The DUP are only useful to the Tories if thE Tories get through what they want it is not a case of the DUP being kingmaker their ability to get the Tories to a majority in parliament only gets them so far.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 02, 2018, 11:17:54 PM
Exactly or the airline or ferry will refuse you entry, it will be on the terms of your ticket. I think post Brexit they will all be like Ryanair. Amendments and even a delay of Brexit will be made to make the necessary changes and get a deal done even if it means going back to the electorate for another General Election.

Ri-ight - so you didn't read about the CTA!  That was a statement - not  a question - as if you had - you'd not be posting so STUPID..  You clearly don't travel across the Irish Sea or know folk that do..


The DUP are only useful to the Tories if thE Tories get through what they want it is not a case of the DUP being kingmaker their ability to get the Tories to a majority in parliament only gets them so far.

As ever, you only confirm your stupidity..  Northern Ireland already gets more UK tax payers money re-invested per head than any other part of the UK - something Dvid Cameron even promised to even out... and here we have Mrs May undoing all that with a 1 billion Pound bribe - just to get DUP support

You'd be better reading some sensible newspaper - learning something -  rather than posting  bollox on here on your way to work ;)   


Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 03, 2018, 11:30:32 AM
Moby there's nor point remoaning, Brexit is going to happen one way or another. Politicians will sort out work arounds. They are not going to let any issue over Ireland get in the way. Remoaners seem to think there is this or that which will derail it, there isn't. The public have voted and parliament know they have to deliver. The Tories want to deliver on this to get rid off party division & the UKIP vote. Even Labour would be glad to see the back the UKIP taking votes away from them. Neither of them and the DUP can afford to not deliver on Brexit it would cause greater conflict and split the nation. You just have to accept this. In a little over a year's time you will find I was right.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 03, 2018, 12:54:59 PM
Moby there's nor point remoaning, Brexit is going to happen one way or another.

'Brexit' is going to be FAR less harsh and now we have no say at the table - I don't think any side can be pleased.


You just have to accept this. In a little over a year's time you will find I was right.

You're already wrong - but like every subject - from women to 'Brexit' ..you'd rather post daft and prove you won't listen or simply cannot understand ;)

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - Now even Farage wants another referendum ( may be ) !
Post by: msmob on January 11, 2018, 05:21:05 AM
Well, Farage (may be, just may be) wants another referendum ...and why not...?

We can ask if :

Do you want to leave the EU?

Do you want to leave the single market ?

He's not sure as ( may be - just may be - he'll lose this time ?


http://www.facebook.com/C5News/videos/10160013176070422/ (http://www.facebook.com/C5News/videos/10160013176070422/)
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - Now even Farage wants another referendum ( may be ) !
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 17, 2018, 05:11:03 PM
Well, Farage (may be, just may be) wants another referendum ...and why not...?

We can ask if :

Do you want to leave the EU?

Do you want to leave the single market ?

He's not sure as ( may be - just may be - he'll lose this time ?


http://www.facebook.com/C5News/videos/10160013176070422/ (http://www.facebook.com/C5News/videos/10160013176070422/)

"Do you want to leave the EU?" - This question has been asked and the response was 'yes we want to leave' so would be undemocratic to ask this again until after we have left and some time has passed to see the affect of being an independent nation again.

"Do you want to leave the single market ?" - This is a question for the politicians to thrash out, its why we elect them. Not just UK politicians but EU politicians. What is we said we did not but most of the politicians in UK Parliament wanted to stay, it would be a hell of a mess. What if we said we did but the EU said we could not, another mess.

Situation is Mobe that the implications of Brexit was talked to death by all the politicians before the referendum on both sides and even from the EU. It should have been apparent to all those that could be bothered to listen that voting to Leave was likely to mean leaving the Single Market as well. It was one of the arguments the Remain camp had to not leaving the EU. There was no firm commitment from the Leave camp to Free Trade or Tarriffs with the EU since it would not be able to be established until negotiations took place anyway but the Leave camp acknowledged voting Leave would likely entail leaving the Single Market and we still won the referendum with everyone being told this.

More recent news with the EU Withdrawal Bill being passed by the House of Commons on its third reading earlier on the battle is all but won. It now looks inevitable that it now won't be long before it becomes law and the stage is set to leave the EU deal or no deal :) Over to you for one last remoan Mobers ;D   
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: JayH on January 17, 2018, 06:51:06 PM
  I note that PM May has created a new portfolio for Trenchcoat ! :tmi: :cluebat: :popcorn:
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 18, 2018, 02:55:55 AM
Some folks are posting that UK PLC is such an important market that their stakeholders can't afford to lose the UK market ... that the EU ill be 'put under pressure'

I saw this in a place where reasoned ripostes never see the light of day

Response:

 'UK PLC' relies more on the EU than the EU needs UK PLC ...  this is simple stuff - but eludes the deluded, ignorant or those just not applying their thinking hats or spending too much time in the company of fellow 'economic scholars' that just won't / won't / don't see it.

Clue: 'UK PLC' is in a trade club ( EU ) and part of it borders that club and promises have already been made that there'll be no border .... 

No border means no Customs, no immigration - like now... 

Bearing in mind the UK govt relies on 12 N.Ireland MPs to STAY in govt - I'm reading some insane stuff from 'experts' ...





Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2018, 08:17:45 AM
Losing markets is an over-exaggeration, even with tariffs trade would still continue, you would have to have sky high tariffs of around 100 percent or more to be effectively act as a barrier to trade, this isn't going to happen. So trade will continue, worst case scenario is that we will lose some trade with the EU but this is very likely to be off set with trade from other non-EU countries since we will be able to reach trade agreements with them more freely. Either way the UK will be better off since we will not be too dependant on one market whereby if the EU catches a cold we sneeze.

Recent announcements by Junker and Tusk that they would welcome the UK back demonstrate that they are in a no win situation, they both wouldn't have made such an announcement otherwise. They know which ever way they turn, they lose - if they don't reach a trade deal they (France & Germany, etc) lose, if they reach a trade deal then they know they have to offer UK preferential terms such as dropping freedom of movement, they lose - they also know that existing tie ups with Ireland etc mean it will be hard for them to offer the UK anything else. Once the UK leaves the EU other nations will look at how the UK fairs and consider leaving themselves, they lose. After all who will want to pay for all the Brussels cronies if they see the UK doing better without - it will become apparent to their citizens at any rate like a poster boy for leaving the EU, they lose. The only way they win and the UK loses is if we stay in the EU, they can go back to riding rough shod over our wishes and again right the British public off as insignificant and ignore us.   
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 18, 2018, 11:27:59 AM
Losing markets is an over-exaggeration,

1/ 'We' are already losing the Euro clearing trade - 4,000 well paid jobs - doesn't include those that will lose out on that spending power going elsewhere

2/ That's just ONE example of UK PLC's lemming -like jumping off a cliff - to well-paid financial services sector... Estimates range from 3k ( Leave) to 150K jobs (remain) - heard it on BBC Radio 4 this lunchtime ...Rees-Mogg was in denial - as ususal


Recent announcements by Junker and Tusk that they would welcome the UK back demonstrate that they are in a no win situation,

NO.. they are demonstrating that they know the younger, educated population of the UK never wanted to leave and will sooner, rather than later hold sway and we can hopefully put this lunacy - brought about by lying politicians and a gullible electorate - behind us ..

I  noted that he - like all 'leavers' - cannot explain how we can keep an open border with the EU ( N.Ireland) and  do a 'hard' Brexit' ....)))
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2018, 03:29:13 PM
1/ 'We' are already losing the Euro clearing trade - 4,000 well paid jobs - doesn't include those that will lose out on that spending power going elsewhere

2/ That's just ONE example of UK PLC's lemming -like jumping off a cliff - to well-paid financial services sector... Estimates range from 3k ( Leave) to 150K jobs (remain) - heard it on BBC Radio 4 this lunchtime ...Rees-Mogg was in denial - as ususal

NO.. they are demonstrating that they know the younger, educated population of the UK never wanted to leave and will sooner, rather than later hold sway and we can hopefully put this lunacy - brought about by lying politicians and a gullible electorate - behind us ..

I was noted that he- like all 'leavers' - cannot explain how we can keep an open border with the EU ( N.Ireland) and  do a 'hard' Brexit' ....)))

Not good to let ourselves be held to ransom Mobers, it's all insignificant when considering the big picure, the City has always been a menace anyway, an undue influence on British politics & vested interests of the rich.

A lot of the educated younger generation voted to leave as well, a lot of them don't get a look into the jobs market because a lot of immigrants from inside & outside the EU who are ready baked in the jobs they are aiming for get them.

It looks like it's going to be a combination of soft & hard Brexit. Basically an end to freedom of movement and the single market for us but some alternative form of free trade in its place. The EU really have no choice but to aquiese in that or face a hard Brexit on a no deal situation. That would not be in the economic  interests of many if it's member nations.

DUP would have no influence in this as if they got in the way it would be another General Election and they would be out of power anyway.

The young will remember all of the incompetent blunderings and impositions of the EU such as trying to force Asylum Seekers upon us against drawn up policy that they should take residence in first safe nation & the failures of the Euro with economies such as Greece, etc and their overbearing/belittling nature, I don't think they will be wanting back in somehow not if they want somewhere to live it's our only hope of controlling immigration numbers.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 18, 2018, 05:15:05 PM
Not good to let ourselves be held to ransom Mobers

1/ it was a select bunch of rich businessmen seeking a weaker £ that spent oodles of cash on lying advertising

2/ We aren't being 'held to ransom' ... a 'hard brexit' is when 'we' can't agree and have to fall back on default WTA tariffs.... which will not happen as long as the DUP support the govt.... They'll bring it down, rather than a 'hard Brexit' ...

A lot of the educated younger generation voted to leave as well, a lot of them don't get a look into the jobs market because a lot of immigrants from inside & outside the EU who are ready baked in the jobs they are aiming for get them.

It's a proven fact that

1/ Younger voters were in the majority to remain

2/ those with tertiary education - majority voted to remain

YES, the majority voted to 'leave' - but they had no idea that 'project fear' - as the leavers called the factual predictions coming into reality - was actually FACT ....


It looks like it's going to be a combination of soft & hard Brexit. Basically an end to freedom of movement and the single market for us but some alternative form of free trade in its place. The EU really have no choice but to aquiese in that or face a hard Brexit on a no deal situation. That would not be in the economic  interests of many if it's member nations.

You are out of your depth ..

HOW can you have an 'end to freedom of movement' for EU citizens, when part of the UK ( Northern Ireland) is physically joined to an EU state and there'll be NO borders ?   

This is a question the 'hard' brexiters duck and dodge ..as time gets closer - it will bring down May's govt.

DUP would have no influence in this as if they got in the way it would be another General Election and they would be out of power anyway.


The DUP will sacrifice being king-makers rather than allowing a 'hard' Brexit...  You don't understand 101 stuff.


The young will remember all of the incompetent blunderings and impositions of the EU such as trying to force Asylum Seekers upon us against drawn up policy that they should take residence in first safe nation & the failures of the Euro with economies such as Greece, etc and their overbearing/belittling nature, I don't think they will be wanting back in somehow not if they want somewhere to live it's our only hope of controlling immigration numbers.

My daughters will have Irish passports and when more people see jobs disappearing to Dublin, Paris, Frankfurt, etc., the penny will drop for more and more...

Many of the elderly who voted 'leave' now see that their care assistants / nurses are leaving as the workers either see no future or the £ is too weak - not worth-while coming here to send money home..

Really, have you got a subject on which you ARE knowledgeable ?

 
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 18, 2018, 05:57:21 PM

You are out of your depth ..

HOW can you have an 'end to freedom of movement' for EU citizens, when part of the UK ( Northern Ireland) is physically joined to an EU state and there'll be NO borders ?   

This is a question the 'hard' brexiters duck and dodge ..as time gets closer - it will bring down May's govt.


The DUP will sacrifice being king-makers rather than allowing a 'hard' Brexit...  You don't understand 101 stuff.


Really you make me laugh Mobers, yes, anyone in the EU will likely be able to come to the UK and vice versa BUT they will not have the right to work anymore, they will have to acquire documentation (visa) proving they have been given the right to work. So it will be a bit like Ukraine and the system brought in last year where they could visit as tourists just not go there for work purposes. So hence ending freedom of movement as we know it. There may well of course be work arounds for anyone bothered enough to go the long route to obtaining right to work in the UK but it will end the mass migration to work in the UK we have been seeing thank god.

Mobe, the Tories are not bothered about the DUP, they have given them a bung, if they end up hell bent on bringing the government down its no big deal, a General Election is called its not like its a Revolution or anything. For the Tories all this Brexit stuff is what they are focused on, they will take it as far as they can and if they are stopped by the DUP they will see no point in carrying on as they are as its their one key issue they are concerned with so why press on with other matters? The Tories will see a GE as the only way to resolve the matter even if it means a possibility of Labour winning they will at least then have the issue taken off their hands rather than being in limbo land.

Politicians are usually adept at finding solutions to problems these days Mobers I don't think they see it in as black and white terms as you do. I think you'll soon see that it is you that are out of your depth on this one ;) Remoaners lost you have to come to terms with the referendum result. 
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 19, 2018, 03:29:35 AM
Really you make me laugh Mobers, yes, anyone in the EU will likely be able to come to the UK and vice versa BUT they will not have the right to work anymore, they will have to acquire documentation (visa) proving they have been given the right to work. So it will be a bit like Ukraine and the system brought in last year where they could visit as tourists just not go there for work purposes. So hence ending freedom of movement as we know it. There may well of course be work arounds for anyone bothered enough to go the long route to obtaining right to work in the UK but it will end the mass migration to work in the UK we have been seeing thank god.

Aha, a Trench climb-down...    There will be freedom of movement - no visas - but a ( possibly) a restriction on employment, you reckon ?  ;)   Tell that that to the BMW's of this world - sending workers to Cowley or bank staff to the City .. it's falling apart ... Why do you think Farage is 'back'  ...he can see all his dreams turning to dust

Mobe, the Tories are not bothered about the DUP, they have given them a bung, if they end up hell bent on bringing the government down its no big deal, a General Election is called its not like its a Revolution or anything. For the Tories all this Brexit stuff is what they are focused on, they will take it as far as they can and if they are stopped by the DUP they will see no point in carrying on as they are as its their one key issue they are concerned with so why press on with other matters? The Tories will see a GE as the only way to resolve the matter even if it means a possibility of Labour winning they will at least then have the issue taken off their hands rather than being in limbo land.

Thanks for confirming you're clueless about the Political reality ...  Without the DUP the legislation to leave the EU will not carry

Politicians are usually adept at finding solutions to problems these days Mobers I don't think they see it in as black and white terms as you do. I think you'll soon see that it is you that are out of your depth on this one ;) Remoaners lost you have to come to terms with the referendum result.

Sighs, yes  leave won - by a small margin - but there was no agreement on the mechanics of leaving - and the end result ... an EEA like status of Norway, complete break, etc., 

Leavers try to bury the N.I border issue and only a fool or ignorant person would suggest the DUP haven't the power to influence ..they ARE the kingmakers or slayers

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 05:55:34 AM
Aha, a Trench climb-down...    There will be freedom of movement - no visas - but a ( possibly) a restriction on employment, you reckon ?  ;)   Tell that that to the BMW's of this world - sending workers to Cowley or bank staff to the City .. it's falling apart ... Why do you think Farage is 'back'  ...he can see all his dreams turning to dust

Thanks for confirming you're clueless about the Political reality ...  Without the DUP the legislation to leave the EU will not carry

Sighs, yes  leave won - by a small margin - but there was no agreement on the mechanics of leaving - and the end result ... an EEA like status of Norway, complete break, etc., 

Mobe, the companies that wanted to dictate a 'Remain' vote in the referendum no longer hold sway. They tended to be the Tony Blairite wealthy globalised corporations who since his time in office sought to perform well by insisting to the government that they needed an oversupply of labour to keep their costs cheap so they could become immensely wealthy by creating an intolerable living situation in the countries in which they operate. You have to consider who the government of today now have to consider Mobers. There is no way of them doing a Tony Blair and igoring the wishes of the people and not shutting down this right to work in the UK. They would be mauled in the next GE, the electorate would be entirely disatisfied, a lot of their own party would be objectionable as they would lose their seats and UKIP would be back I'm business. It's 'the' main issue why the population voted for Brexit. Such is May's slim majority in parliament that she will not get it through anyway. Work visa's for EU workers will be in the final deal.

The final leg of the legislation to leave the EU is going through parliament now but it has little to do with the deal being reached. The DUP has agreed to support this legislation as they support Brexit. In any case if Theresa really had to she could aquiese to Corbyn's demands on it and get Labour support. The legislation going through is about being organised in this country on leaving whether deal or no deal. It'S the deal being hashed out at the moment the DUP are concerned about not the EU exit bill. If necessary the government will call mother GE or just leave it to time out of the EU after 2 years which the DUP can do nothing about. In all likelihood none of that will happen as the Tories will look to satisfy the DUP on the issue just as they must satisfy other key groups/issues on how we leave the EU, global corporations for once are not one of those groups.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 19, 2018, 06:51:05 AM
Mobe, the companies that wanted to dictate a 'Remain' vote in the referendum no longer hold sway. They tended to be the Tony Blairite wealthy globalised corporations

Where DO you get your 'knowledge', Trench ?  So Financial institutions are products of Socialism ?))))

You have to consider who the government of today now have to consider Mobers. There is no way of them doing a Tony Blair and igoring the wishes of the people and not shutting down this right to work in the UK. They would be mauled in the next GE, the electorate would be entirely disatisfied, a lot of their own party would be objectionable as they would lose their seats and UKIP would be back I'm business. It's 'the' main issue why the population voted for Brexit. Such is May's slim majority in parliament that she will not get it through anyway. Work visa's for EU workers will be in the final deal.

Unlike you, I have considered the govts's. situation ... They fought an election for a mandate for a 'hard' Brexit and lost a shed load of seats .... They aren't too smart if they haven't figured why, yet ..


The final leg of the legislation to leave the EU is going through parliament now but it has little to do with the deal being reached. The DUP has agreed to support this legislation as they support Brexit. In any case if Theresa really had to she could aquiese to Corbyn's demands on it and get Labour support. The legislation going through is about being organised in this country on leaving whether deal or no deal. It'S the deal being hashed out at the moment the DUP are concerned about not the EU exit bill. If necessary the government will call mother GE or just leave it to time out of the EU after 2 years which the DUP can do nothing about. In all likelihood none of that will happen as the Tories will look to satisfy the DUP on the issue just as they must satisfy other key groups/issues on how we leave the EU, global corporations for once are not one of those groups.

The DUP will not support any legislation that means a change in the border ( ie. no customs / immigration checks ) nor the need for checks when going to 'the mainland' (GB)

I wonder how this is SO hard to 'get' ?.. 'hard' Brexit is finished ...
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 19, 2018, 10:49:12 AM
Blair was hardly socialist Moby, most traditional Labour supporters/voters/sympathiers hate Blair and we're glad to be rid of him when he finally went, me included. Blair is the reason many traditional Labour supporters voted UKIP, me included :)

The Gov lost a lot of seats at the election because they moved off issues on Brexit on which they were strongest and onto undermining their core voters - the elderly because they wanted to fund an elderly persons social care by selling off their home. This was a blunder and a bug vote loser for them, they got overconfident and thought they could get all what they wished as the electorate would follow them on anything because of Brexit, they were wrong. They also failed to see the student vote was up for grabs this time around as the Lib Dems had lost it. Corbyn & Labour were astute enough to realise that the student vote could save them from annialation. May putting her foot in it was just the cherry on top.

Moby the hard brexit of stopping/restricting EU workers working here will be mixed with the soft Brexit of non border checks/customs checks with Ireland and a form off free trade or as near as. It's pointless to argue over this as this is how it will be it's predetermined as it is the only way it can be sorted. The only other way with tariffs is just not on the table at the moment anyway. Essentially May has to please enough in her own party & parliament to get this through. It means sailing a steady course between all the competing demands on this or that. So far enough has been delivered to all competing factions to keep them content. I don't see that changing.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 19, 2018, 06:03:27 PM
Blair was hardly socialist Moby, most traditional Labour supporters/voters/sympathiers hate Blair and we're glad to be rid of him when he finally went, me included. Blair is the reason many traditional Labour supporters voted UKIP, me included :)

STUPID, uneducated, and gullible people voted UKIP - but thanks for proving my theory

Blair was a socialist, led a Socialist party and simply realised that Thatcher had moved the UK to the right - by making former Council House owners, property owners.

If you / your family were conned by Blair and then became UKIP - you are further confirming just how dumb some of our electorate are ...



The Gov lost a lot of seats at the election because they moved off issues on Brexit on which they were strongest and onto undermining their core voters - the elderly because they wanted to fund an elderly persons social care by selling off their home.

Yet these are the dumb idiots who threw away a healthy majority and need the DUP to'run' the country .... May is still having the splinters surgically removed from her arse - having sat on the fence - and it should be clear to those with a clue that she cannot read people / their mood

Moby the hard brexit of stopping/restricting EU workers working here will be mixed with the soft Brexit of non border checks/customs checks with Ireland and a form off free trade or as near as. It's pointless to argue over this as this is how it will be it's predetermined as it is the only way it can be sorted. The only other way with tariffs is just not on the table at the moment anyway. Essentially May has to please enough in her own party & parliament to get this through. It means sailing a steady course between all the competing demands on this or that. So far enough has been delivered to all competing factions to keep them content. I don't see that changing.

Flannel - you are dodging my constant point ..  you cannot 'restrict' EU freedom of movement when we don't know when folk arrived - if arriving via the R o Ireland..

HOW can you know who is 'legal' ? ))



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 20, 2018, 12:19:45 AM
STUPID, uneducated, and gullible people voted UKIP - but thanks for proving my theory

Blair was a socialist, led a Socialist party and simply realised that Thatcher had moved the UK to the right - by making former Council House owners, property owners.

If you / your family were conned by Blair and then became UKIP - you are further confirming just how dumb some of our electorate are ...



Yet these are the dumb idiots who threw away a healthy majority and need the DUP to'run' the country .... May is still having the splinters surgically removed from her arse - having sat on the fence - and it should be clear to those with a clue that she cannot read people / their mood

Flannel - you are dodging my constant point ..  you cannot 'restrict' EU freedom of movement when we don't know when folk arrived - if arriving via the R o Ireland..

HOW can you know who is 'legal' ? ))

Mobers, Blair was known in some quarters as a 'pink Tory' some see him more as a social democat, few would see him as socialist. The Labour party is essentially divided into Blairites and anti-Blairites (Old Labour) amoung other divisions. Corbyn managed to defeat the Blairites twice over when he gained leadership of the party then subsequently defeating the challenge to his leadership. Three times in fact if you count doing far better in the GE than the Blairites expected him to do and so seeing of any further challenge. Jeremy Corbyn realises many Labour supporters are less than emphatic fir the EU himself included and he has avoided getting too cosy with either on the issue to avoid splitting his patry. He knows like the Tories that post leaving it will cease to be an issue.

May miscalculated for sure and you ate probably right that she cannot read people well enough. She stuffed up an easy win. The only plus for her is that she has a 5 year mandate do can go to 2022 well after all the EU business if she can keep the DUP on side.

You are right Mobers in so far as the UK will not know directly where people are coming from if the enter through Ireland. They would have to rely on Ireland checking that they are from the EU but that is how it is at present anyway. Which is why I say a lot of this stuff is actually already settled. All EU citizens are likely to get visa free entry to the UK for an unlimited period and all UK citizens will get the same visa free access to the EU. MOT just because the UK Gov would expect the same in return but because UK citizens could pass from Northern to Southern Ireland without border check. So UK citizens would be going into an EU nation without control. Hence why the hard Brexit part would just be the loss of the right to work part of the freedom of movement policy not the whole loss of freedom of movement. So employers would check right to work on a country as they presently do and many EU citizens would no longer qualify and vice versa. But seeing as far more come to work here than we do abroad we would benefit, less competition for jobs, higher wages, etc :)

It would all take a while before any noticeable impact of course and there are work arounds for anyone bothered enough i.e a UK  or EU citizen goes to live in Ireland for 5 years and gains citizenship there or again UK or EU travel to each other and dropS an anchor baby. These are extremes though and most won't bother just for the right to work there. Importantly they will be able to visit family and relatives throughout the UK  and EU freely and that will suit most.

You see the genius of leaving the EU Moby, we end up in a better position almost by default and it is this Junker & Tusk do not like as they can do little about it. That is why they both want the UK to rejoin the EU before these benefits become known as they know otherwise they are going to be permently stuck with the situation. Read between the lines Mobers ;)
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 20, 2018, 04:44:23 PM
Mobers, Blair was known in some quarters as a 'pink Tory' some see him more as a social democat, few would see him as socialist.

Yeah, but there's always folk daft enough to believe such bollox

You were too young to remember ( or care) but John Major wanted us to save and start pensions, early ... Blair and Brown - robbed us by taxing our pensions...

Rally, I think you  believe anything you read, rather than checking if the person has a clue...

The Labour party is essentially divided into Blairites and anti-Blairites (Old Labour) amoung other divisions.

The Tories have always had the further right ( anti-EU) and moderate right ( pro EU)  ...and ?

Corbyn took control of an undetectable party and only the stupidity of May's ( you highlighted it ) plan to hit pensioners ( prompted by a farcical volte face)  allowed him to do as well as he did.

Corbyn is 'anti-EU' - but sat on the fence and May has proven to be pretty aloof, unable to read ppl, the political climate and absolutely misses how to deal with crises - like the Grenfell Tower fatalities 

The only plus for her is that she has a 5 year mandate do can go to 2022 well after all the EU business if she can keep the DUP on side.


Once again, proving you don't READ ..She needs 'em and can't deliver a 'hard Brexit'  - as they'll just let her govt fall

So employers would check right to work on a country as they presently do and many EU citizens would no longer qualify and vice versa. But seeing as far more come to work here than we do abroad we would benefit, less competition for jobs, higher wages, etc :)

Now tell me HOW the govt is going to know when an EU citizen arrived ? ....



You see the genius of leaving the EU Moby, we end up in a better position almost by default and it is this Junker & Tusk do not like as they can do little about it. That is why they both want the UK to rejoin the EU before these benefits become known as they know otherwise they are going to be permently stuck with the situation. Read between the lines Mobers ;)

'Genius' is 'threatening your biggest market for exports'  that you  will tax their imports  ))))  ?   Like they are so 'scared' ....   

Suggest YOU read the newspapers in other nations as they are ALL readiy to profit from our folly





Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2018, 12:08:06 AM
Yeah, but there's always folk daft enough to believe such bollox

You were too young to remember ( or care) but John Major wanted us to save and start pensions, early ... Blair and Brown - robbed us by taxing our pensions...

Rally, I think you  believe anything you read, rather than checking if the person has a clue...

The Tories have always had the further right ( anti-EU) and moderate right ( pro EU)  ...and ?

Corbyn took control of an undetectable party and only the stupidity of May's ( you highlighted it ) plan to hit pensioners ( prompted by a farcical volte face)  allowed him to do as well as he did.

Corbyn is 'anti-EU' - but sat on the fence and May has proven to be pretty aloof, unable to read ppl, the political climate and absolutely misses how to deal with crises - like the Grenfell Tower fatalities 


Once again, proving you don't READ ..She needs 'em and can't deliver a 'hard Brexit'  - as they'll just let her govt fall

Now tell me HOW the govt is going to know when an EU citizen arrived ? ....



'Genius' is 'threatening your biggest market for exports'  that you  will tax their imports  ))))  ?   Like they are so 'scared' ....   

Suggest YOU read the newspapers in other nations as they are ALL readiy to profit from our folly

It's no use remoaning Mobers Brexit is going to happen it is a fact, Remoaners lost the referendum so that's that :)

Private pensions are a waste of time I dint bother with them, never have and never will. If you look how much more you get with the state pension compared to what you put in (national insurance compared to private/workplace pension contributions) the sum you get back as an annuity is a paltry sum. Most money experts agree that annuities give a poor return on investment. It was Thatchers mistake in opening up the pensions market in the 80s. If we all just contributed to one State Pension we could all enjoy a good retirement instead if funds being wasted in private pensions that return little. They've never really worked.

Not knowing when EU nationals have arrived in the country is not a problem. They will just not be able to work here ad their EU pasports they show UK employers will no longer alow that they will have to get a work visa if they qualify. This was the main reason people voted to leave as all the migrants coming here and taking our jobs was causing havoc. So it will be good to see this situation being brought under control or at least calmed down.

Blair and his cronies such as Lord Adonis have tried to overide the will of the electorate by pulling stunts like resigning from their top level posts thinking it will stop Brexit, yeah like they are so important, lol. Fortunately this has only helped purge most of thEM out of government so it has actually helped in the long run :) Old establishment figures like Ken Clarke are now fighting the new establishment on the outside, hilarious.

The Remoaners in the Labour party tried to rest control of the party from Jeremy Corbyn but the old boy proved too much for them ;)

Abroad, the French President is trying to push for us to pay for free trade access, it's a con as we will get thus anyway. We would be paying for something they would struggle to avoid giving us the situation with Ireland etc means they have little option other than to give us this access. He also has said he wants the UK to rejoin the EU, why? Because all the top level EU leaders have gotten together behind then scenes and have been talking. Then all know that the UK will leave the EU but still get all the benefits and there is little they can do about this - they have discovered get are holding the losing hand oc cards. If they had the winning hand they would not be saying for the UK to rejoin the EU. It goes far beyond a few jobs going abroad Mobers, that is neither here nor there.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2018, 01:13:54 AM
It's no use remoaning Mobers Brexit is going to happen it is a fact, Remoaners lost the referendum so that's that :)

Sighs ...except *I* refer to a 'hard Brexit' not happening - not the UK leaving the EU ..

As this is the umpteenth time you've read a poster's valid advice / fact in a manner the proves you don't / won't /read, ]I shouldn't have been surprised



Private pensions are a waste of time[/qyote]


Nice dodge..  They  aren't as attractive because of

1/ They income is taxable - thanks to your 'non-socialist' Socialist Blair/Brown teamwork -whose first Budget screwed those actually being PRUDENT..

2/ The 2007 Crash saw pensions performing badly - esp in comparison with property

Once again, you posted like you 'knew' stuff and ended up proving you don't ...



Not knowing when EU nationals have arrived in the country is not a problem. They will just not be able to work here ad their EU pasports they show UK employers will no longer alow that they will have to get a work visa if they qualify. This was the main reason people voted to leave as all the migrants coming here and taking our jobs was causing havoc. So it will be good to see this situation being brought under control or at least calmed down.

 :ROFL:

Example:  Boris from Bulgaria has never been working in the UK and arrives via Ireland in the post  'brexit'..  How is he any different to  Sergei -  who came before the cut-off point ?  The UK simply don't know if he was here, already or not...

Blair and his cronies such as Lord Adonis have tried to overide the will of the electorate by pulling stunts like resigning from their top level posts thinking it will stop Brexit, yeah like they are so important, lol. Fortunately this has only helped purge most of thEM out of government so it has actually helped in the long run :) Old establishment figures like Ken Clarke are now fighting the new establishment on the outside, hilarious.

Clued-up folk would point out to you that Blair's 'help' was and is never required - given his non-trusted status..

Resignig from a role in govt that you cannot hand on heart participate in - like Cameron and Adonis is not only wise, but praiseworthy - not a 'stunt'



The Remoaners in the Labour party tried to rest control of the party from Jeremy Corbyn but the old boy proved too much for them ;)

ACTUALLY, the Daily Mail, etc., tried to  belittle him and May managed to make him look like a man of the people. He would be a disaster for the UK - if he became PM of a Socialist Party - a leader who really IS anti-EU - at a time when UK PLC needsa sales-person to keep friends

Abroad, the French President is trying to push for us to pay for free trade access, it's a con as we will get thus anyway. [/quote

'Silly boy'.. I foretold Macron would be a major force in French Politics - when the Dail Mail was telling us he got a slap from his old boss for suggesting Le Touquet needed revising..

I suggest you read up on Le Touquet ... He's just extracted another chunk of tax payers money for France to allow the UK border to be on the French side... IF the UK doesn't wake up the anti-EU voters of Dover will find the border controls back on the UK side and the asylum seekers arriving in inflatable boats.....  This is all so easy to predict and Macron holds all the cards...May is a lame duck - needing DUP support and Merkel has internal coalition issues - he's the main man of the EU..


We would be paying for something they would struggle to avoid giving us the situation with Ireland etc means they have little option other than to give us this access. He also has said he wants the UK to rejoin the EU, why? Because all the top level EU leaders have gotten together behind then scenes and have been talking. Then all know that the UK will leave the EU but still get all the benefits and there is little they can do about this - they have discovered get are holding the losing hand oc cards. If they had the winning hand they would not be saying for the UK to rejoin the EU. It goes far beyond a few jobs going abroad Mobers, that is neither here nor there.

You miss the irony .. We WILL be paying to a club for access to markets we cannot afford to lose and not sitting at the table -making the rules- AND EU folk will STILL be coming and working

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 21, 2018, 02:09:56 AM
Mobe, the Gov will simply issue a right to work to anyone that is here already. Anyone who is not who is a member of the EU after Brexit who hasn't already been given one will be deemed as ineligible and it will be obvious that came here layer than current EU residents. Job sorted.

We will not be paying the EU no more money, another main principle of those of us that voted Leave. Wishful thinking on Macron's part. We have the upper hand not them.

p.s Private & Workplace pensions have always proven themselves to be no good, tax or no tax. Just look at all the companies with shortfalls in ther pension payments, Carrillion, Toys R Us, Tara Steel. Not good for them or us it seems. The current compulsory workplace pension system is already failing. Time we all came together behind the State pension & ban private & workplace pensions outright.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 21, 2018, 01:25:48 PM
Mobe, the Gov will simply issue a right to work to anyone that is here already. Anyone who is not who is a member of the EU after Brexit who hasn't already been given one will be deemed as ineligible and it will be obvious that came here layer than current EU residents. Job sorted.

Trench, it is hard responding to someone who won't read - that idea is open to such abuse .....  EU folks could still come, but they're leaving because of

1/ the vote

2/ the GBP is weak - so not worth working here and sending money home

We will not be paying the EU no more money, another main principle of those of us that voted Leave. Wishful thinking on Macron's part. We have the upper hand not them.

We ARE paying the EU money - now and even if we leave - other LIE - those who voted 'leave' believed

p.s Private & Workplace pensions have always proven themselves to be no good, tax or no tax. Just look at all the companies with shortfalls in ther pension payments, Carrillion, Toys R Us, Tara Steel. Not good for them or us it seems. The current compulsory workplace pension system is already failing. Time we all came together behind the State pension & ban private & workplace pensions outright.

You are like BillyB..when stumped - you try to deflect a fail - by introducing a red herring and going off at a tangent

I remember how we got here : you suggestion that Blair and his policies were akin to Tory policy )))

Best you don't try to tell us about how crooks misuse Pensioner's money - they certainly ain't 'businessmen'

Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 12:46:48 AM
Trench, it is hard responding to someone who won't read - that idea is open to such abuse .....  EU folks could still come, but they're leaving because of

1/ the vote

2/ the GBP is weak - so not worth working here and sending money home

We ARE paying the EU money - now and even if we leave - other LIE - those who voted 'leave' believed

You are like BillyB..when stumped - you try to deflect a fail - by introducing a red herring and going off at a tangent

I remember how we got here : you suggestion that Blair and his policies were akin to Tory policy )))

Best you don't try to tell us about how crooks misuse Pensioner's money - they certainly ain't 'businessmen'

No I think it is you that are trying to put forward Red Herrings then claiming it is me because you are stumped and have lost all arguments. You have no argument against companies going into default with their workplace pensions - I have given examples and you have no argument against this. You also have no argument against private & workplace pensions never being any good because if all the failure stories over the decades and no good stories to be heard about them. You also have no argument on Brexit as of course the government can restrict who works here - national inuance numbers are needed for work and the government has the power to introduced whatever scheme it so wishes.

But of course you Moby are too high & mighty to admit when you are wrong. He who had won court cases against legal teams and must be the expert on everything, must be quite the come down ;D
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 12:54:15 AM
No I think it is you that are trying to put forward Red Herrings then claiming it is me because you are stumped and have lost all arguments.

 :ROFL:

Try posting a fact that wasn't EASY to take apart..


I think you are a member here to post and pass the time on your daily commute because you are bored..

Meanwhile, UKIP are proving they are and were run by idiots and attracted idiot voters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657)
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 02:54:39 AM
:ROFL:

Try posting a fact that wasn't EASY to take apart..


I think you are a member here to pass your daily commute because you are bored..

Meanwhile, UKIP are proving they are and were run by idiots and attracted idiot voters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657)

Other news, the pound is steadily rising against the dollar its nearly £1.40 ans the Euro nearly £1.14 not near pre-referendum level but shows we are not going into meltdown under the notion of Brexit as some predicted I think ;D

I think UKIP has always had a problem of cohesion brought about by the fact that most of its members come from either Tories or Labour - so the two clash and are often just united on the issue of Brexit. Now Brexit is almost a full gone conclusion there is more in-fighting than every. UKIP certainly have a posh crowd that has never appealed to me which is why despite my ardent support in recent years toward Brexit I never joined the party as their values were at odds with mine and were just too prominent.

I think Farage has so far proved himself to be the only one who can lead well out of all the leaders UKIP has had and be prominent enough to make an impact.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 03:24:13 AM
Other news, the pound is steadily rising against the dollar its nearly £1.40 ans the Euro nearly £1.14 not near pre-referendum level but shows we are not going into meltdown under the notion of Brexit as some predicted I think


Still WAY lower and why isn't it higher - if Brxit is so wonderful - the GBP would be stronger ,,

It is noted that your omitted to note that the GBP now has higher interest rates ..

STILL waiting for a subject you DO have a clue about ?

Meanwhile, want to tell us why - if we were going to be 'saving' £300 million quid a week that the govt admitted there was a 'black hole' in tax  revenues - as a result of Brexit ?

I think

NO.. you don't..


UKIP has always had a problem of cohesion brought about by the fact that most of its members come from either Tories or Labour - so the two clash and are often just united on the issue of Brexit. Now Brexit is almost a full gone conclusion there is more in-fighting than every. UKIP certainly have a posh crowd that has never appealed to me which is why despite my ardent support in recent years toward Brexit I never joined the party as their values were at odds with mine and were just too prominent.

Glad to hear it - as the members were mostly unthinking or racists - only a few smart folk with an agenda to get cheaper exports really had a clue at running the show. You could simply had posted - "you're right, Moby"

I think Farage has so far proved himself to be the only one who can lead well out of all the leaders UKIP has had and be prominent enough to make an impact.

He had his own agenda  (self promotion) ... and has now distanced himself from the loonies and racists that make up the party

So, Trench.. which sector contributes the most to 'UK PLC' and how it it fairing since the referendum?  More jobs or less?

Don't think ... check for FACTS...
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 22, 2018, 05:03:57 AM
'Some American' - who should know better - posted on a forum where factual responses aren't allowed - quoted from a UK equiv of the National Enquirer... the Daily EXpress - suggesting  that France might vote to leave the EU. too

Except he didn't say that ...    Listening to his whole answer would have spoiled the headline..

The Express also  'left out' ..."He told Marr it was not too late for the UK to change its mind about remaining - describing the 2016 referendum as a "mistake".

"I do respect this vote, I do regret this vote, and I would love to welcome you again," he said.

"It's a mistake when you just ask 'yes' or 'no' when you don't ask people how to improve the situation and explain how to improve it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026)

Meanwhile Mrs May spoke of both sides being committed to the Le Touquet agreement  - which given Macron being 'bollocked' by Hollande - his old boss-  for saying a UK EU exit could mean its end - seems 'interesting' [the UK 'border' is currently on the French side - to stop those seeking asylum getting to the UK, first..The French get all the hopeful migrants milling around Calais  ]

Jeez, we can't have the Express printing facts and scaring their readers with FACTS ...











Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 05:39:13 PM

It is noted that your omitted to note that the GBP now has higher interest rates ..

He had his own agenda  (self promotion) ... and has now distanced himself from the loonies and racists that make up the party

So, Trench.. which sector contributes the most to 'UK PLC' and how it it fairing since the referendum?  More jobs or less?


Mobe, the interest rate is back to the level it was a few months back - Carney with the board lowered it and they shouldn't have, there was no need, it has kicked started inflation. Everything was steady at 1/2 a percent interest rate which it is now back too.

Farage is self-promoting himself to what exactly???? I'm a celebrity, get me out of the jungle, lol, he has taken up no positions or bettered himself as a result of being leader of UKIP, quite the opposite he wants a more peaceful life which is why he stepped down, he just fought to save Britain and its way of life, to get us back to a better way of life before we were swamped with economic immigrants.

We haven't left the EU yet so it can't possibly be talked about in terms of job gains or losses. We will need to leave the EU and give it at least a couple of years or so to see the real effect. At the moment there is just the EU pulling a few jobs to make big and try and scare us. The want to scare us back into the EU so no country dare thinks of leaving the EU because we lost our nerve and went snivelling back to the EU to be treated as their b*tch, but perhaps that is the level of dignity you enjoy feeling as someones b*tch.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 22, 2018, 05:59:18 PM
'Some American' - who should know better - posted on a forum where factual responses aren't allowed - quoted from a UK equiv of the National Enquirer... the Daily EXpress - suggesting  that France might vote to leave the EU. too

Except he didn't say that ...    Listening to his whole answer would have spoiled the headline..

The Express also  'left out' ..."He told Marr it was not too late for the UK to change its mind about remaining - describing the 2016 referendum as a "mistake".

"I do respect this vote, I do regret this vote, and I would love to welcome you again," he said.

"It's a mistake when you just ask 'yes' or 'no' when you don't ask people how to improve the situation and explain how to improve it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026)

Meanwhile Mrs May spoke of both sides being committed to the Le Touquet agreement  - which given Macron being 'bollocked' by Hollande - his old boss-  for saying a UK EU exit could mean its end - seems 'interesting' [the UK 'border' is currently on the French side - to stop those seeking asylum getting to the UK, first..The French get all the hopeful migrants milling around Calais  ]

Jeez, we can't have the Express printing facts and scaring their readers with FACTS ...

Macron, the guy is a grade A tosser. Cameron tried to negotiate and got very little for his efforts. The EU should know where they went wrong if they are at all competant as an organisation which they are not. They should know that East European migration to the UK was making a housing shortage even more scarce and jobs a problem. Problem is they are too rigid and set in their ways as an organisation, they have fixed policies and ideology and won't budge from it - even when they are heading to disaster they still won't change course. It would be pointless to try to negotiate anything along the lines that Macron suggests. He is too much like Blair, slimey he will say something like that then when it comes to it ignore all the wishes of the British public and have it all his own way, nothing more insipid. No, the referendum was won fair and square and must be honoured, it was more than clear what it entailed in the long run up to the referendum by both sides. All this whinging that it was not clear is just untrue and a lot off remoaning by those looking to undermine the result.

I personally think that when we leave it could give greater impetus to France to leave as they will likely see us as a preferable trading partner to the EU.
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 02:11:51 AM
Mobe, the interest rate is back to the level it was a few months back

 :ROFL:

The headline:

UK interest rates rise for first time in 10 years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330)

Now go back to my point and try to formulate a VALID riposte..based on FACT ..

Farage is self-promoting himself to what exactly???? I'm a celebrity, get me out of the jungle,

'adviser to 'Trampu', a new UK political party ?..

We haven't left the EU yet

..and the jobs in THE financial sector - THE only one that  grew in the hard times that saw other nations economies shrink faster and recover slower - is now losing jobs..to ... the other EU nations..

Stop making 'excuses' ... wake up and admit .. it's a HUGE mistake..

Oh, I forgot ... you can't make a case for leaving - you just quote 'facts' at me ..))
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 23, 2018, 05:29:49 AM
:ROFL:

The headline:

UK interest rates rise for first time in 10 years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330)

Now go back to my point and try to formulate a VALID riposte..based on FACT ..

'adviser to 'Trampu', a new UK political party ?..

..and the jobs in THE financial sector - THE only one that  grew in the hard times that saw other nations economies shrink faster and recover slower - is now losing jobs..to ... the other EU nations..

Stop making 'excuses' ... wake up and admit .. it's a HUGE mistake..

Oh, I forgot ... you can't make a case for leaving - you just quote 'facts' at me ..))

Mobe, your doing a Tony Bliar and skewing the facts.

The first interest rate rise on ten years is a non-event. They should have never been put down in the first place. In any case we are talking of a rise from a quarter to half a percent, hardly shocking.  Interest rates had been on half a percent for ages and all was well at that level, it is merely returning it to a level at which all was well.

I don't see Farage going to be an advisor to Trump. Even if he did I don't think he was angling at that all along he just doesn't give me the impression he is the social climbing type like Blair was.

The reason financial sector jobs grew faster in the recession was because so many got laid of at the start of the recession with the credit crunch you fool. The Gov stepping in and helping out the banks meant that this sector suffered a lot less then it would have done, even though it was responsible for starting the whole mess. The rest of the EU suffered worse since they were linked to the whole Euro/Greek crises debacle so their financial sector was in a lot worse shape because of it. If we had joined the Euro we would have been dragged into that mess also and would have had to stump up for the Greek bailout, no thank you.

Just accept it Mobe, Brexit is happening and there is nothing you can say on here to stop it :)
Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: msmob on January 23, 2018, 08:24:05 AM
Mobe, your doing a Tony Bliar and skewing the facts.

Says the guy deflecting from his latest howler re interest rates?.. Deal with your 'inaccuracies' rather than falsely aligning me with a fibbing git.. one your were too stupid to see kicked off by robbing those who saved.


The first interest rate rise on ten years is a non-event. They should have never been put down in the first place. In any case we are talking of a rise from a quarter to half a percent, hardly shocking.  Interest rates had been on half a percent for ages and all was well at that level, it is merely returning it to a level at which all was well.

Who's tripe are you spouting? After 2007 the capitalist world was on the floor.. Interest rates fell to stimulate growth.

The increase might only be tiny..but those on tight budgets with mortgages WILL feel it...

You noticed the UK housing market slowed?... Na... Didn't think so..Post Benefit confidence is low and inflation is because stuff we import is costing more... weaker Pound?

Another subject where you wear the Dunce's hat

I don't see Farage going to be an advisor to Trump.

Yet that is what he was.... So current affairs is not your strong point, either...


Just accept it Mobe, Brexit is happening and there is nothing you can say on here to stop it :)

Once again, you repeat something which I do not dispute... Other than your 'brexit' ain't going to be 'hard'...



Title: Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
Post by: Mod7 on January 23, 2018, 11:33:41 AM
Apart from not being in tune with RWD's main theme, this thread has gone on long enough as a personal feud between 2 members :-[.

Therefore, this thread is now LOCKED.