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Author Topic: The Russian/Syrian connection thread  (Read 253487 times)

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Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #975 on: February 17, 2018, 01:28:47 PM »
Yet in our most recent exchanges ONLY I have quoted factual info..and done the debunking  ;)

Three times repeating a lie ( transitory tourist ) suggests our FT has serious issues !

You are free to post here and I'm free to point out your nonsense.

MY analogy referred to your singular lack of knowledge re the board's ethos


You simply post  opinions on stuff who haven't got the first clue about and 'fight it out' with opponents who wipe the floor with you on most subjects. WHY?... because you post in some threads where your clear like of experience on the subject is laughably obvious

Assad was elected in 2000 and in 2007 and in 2014.  Close enough to two decades now.   

Now that your "Where you live" 'qualifier' has been debunked it and turned against you, it appears you are trying a new tact.  Congratulations for adaptation!   So now you are whining that I'm 'fighting it out' with you.  Too bad!  You are no expert, I was willing to exchange opinions, but you are incapable of doing that so I see no harm in engaging with you in a different way.  Just try not to be an offended hypocrite. Ok?   :D

And yes, you were likely a transitory tourist, just trying to bolster your creds, not unlike others.  There are plenty of native Syrians, that hold completely opposite views as you do, so by your 'logic' (Not mine) you have been trumped by them. 

Fathertime!   
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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #976 on: February 17, 2018, 01:41:33 PM »
You can't really say Assad was elected.  In 2000, he was elected (as the sole nominee) with 99.7% support.  In 2007, he was elected with 97.6% support.  The last election was held 3 years into a bloody civil war, so those results (giving him 88.7% support) are not legitimate either.


No matter what you believe about Assad, he has been elected in sham elections which have no credibility.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #977 on: February 17, 2018, 01:52:38 PM »
You can't really say Assad was elected.  In 2000, he was elected (as the sole nominee) with 99.7% support.  In 2007, he was elected with 97.6% support.  The last election was held 3 years into a bloody civil war, so those results (giving him 88.7% support) are not legitimate either.


No matter what you believe about Assad, he has been elected in sham elections which have no credibility.

while I agree the elections in Syria are not very good, and yes he was the sole nominee earlier, he has been their version of an elected leader.    It isn't up to the USA to barrel in and impose ourselves on the region especially in an effort to strengthen ourselves at others expense. 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #978 on: February 17, 2018, 01:54:24 PM »
No, he is their version of an authoritarian leader.  Not an elected leader.

Quote
It isn't up to the USA to barrel in and impose ourselves on the region especially in an effort to strengthen ourselves at others expense. 


Too late for that.  A lot of this instability is a result of the illegal invasion of Iraq, so I think the US is under a moral obligation to try to broker peace.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 01:56:20 PM by Boethius »
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #979 on: February 17, 2018, 02:06:03 PM »
No, he is their version of an authoritarian leader.  Not an elected leader.


Too late for that.  A lot of this instability is a result of the illegal invasion of Iraq, so I think the US is under a moral obligation to try to broker peace.

I say he is elected, but the point can obviously be made that he is authoritarian. 

How does our illegal invasion of Iraq, now necessitate the US backed/forced removal of Assad as Syria's president?

Fathertime!   
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Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #980 on: February 17, 2018, 02:09:04 PM »
Elections are held to give a facade of legitimacy, and Assad is not legitimately elected.


I'm not saying you have to use force.  But the US must be involved in a solution to the turmoil engulfing the region, as the US inflamed it, we could even argue, caused it.
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #981 on: February 17, 2018, 02:27:36 PM »
while I agree the elections in Syria are not very good, and yes he was the sole nominee earlier, he has been their version of an elected leader.   



The Assad family "seized" power since 1971 and haven't given anybody else a chance to run the country since. They haven't given their people a chance to choose their leader either. They're paying for it and if they lose the war, they will pay for it with their life.


  It isn't up to the USA to barrel in and impose ourselves on the region especially in an effort to strengthen ourselves at others expense. 
 


Syria sponsored terrorism against American interests and allies. Just a little payback happening right now. Other Middle Eastern nations get along with us fine and we will help their nations from becoming destabilized by Iran or Syria.


In other news Russia's official statement said about 5 Russians died from last weeks attack instead of hundreds as reported. That should make their citizens feel better.


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-russians-killed-syria-20180215-story.html



Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline alex330

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #982 on: February 17, 2018, 02:55:07 PM »
In other news Russia's official statement said about 5 Russians died from last weeks attack instead of hundreds as reported. That should make their citizens feel better.


And other reports are saying over 600 Russian merc killed this month. They are taking heavy casualties.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5386503/More-640-Russian-mercenary-soldiers-killed-Syria.html








Offline msmob

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #983 on: February 17, 2018, 04:47:21 PM »
Assad was elected in 2000 and in 2007 and in 2014.  Close enough to two decades now.   

'elected' ?Please quote your 'source'  :ROFL:


And yes, you were likely a transitory tourist, just trying to bolster your creds, not unlike others.  There are plenty of native Syrians, that hold completely opposite views as you do, so by your 'logic' (Not mine) you have been trumped by them. 


1/ I know considerably more Syrians that you do and even the Christian sects no longer respect Al-ASSad...
2/ FOUR times fibbing won't change a fact ...I was no 'tourist' - setting up comms infrastructure...  You remind me of Brass ...  facts were hard for him to take, too

Offline msmob

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #984 on: February 17, 2018, 04:50:36 PM »
I say he is elected

Like you are 'more qualified' and 'informed' that the UN former Sec Gen ... :cluebat:

You now know that you posted a howler re the Al-ASSad dynasty being 'elected' - having come to power in '71 in a coup - but are simply to stupid to fess up ....'respect'


Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #985 on: February 17, 2018, 05:17:35 PM »
'elected' ?Please quote your 'source'  :ROFL:

Poor you, can't even look up a source.  YOU can do your own searches, the info is plain to see.


'elected' ?Please quote your 'source'  :ROFL:


1/ I know considerably more Syrians that you do and even the Christian sects no longer respect Al-ASSad...
2/ FOUR times fibbing won't change a fact ...I was no 'tourist' - setting up comms infrastructure...  You remind me of Brass ...  facts were hard for him to take, too
I have quite a few doubts about what you have stated about your personal history, but I don't feel the need to harp on that very much.     
Your overall ignorance/intolerance makes me think you aren't very competent in whatever you do, or have done.   I don't care about your little dispute with former posters, based on your own words, you don't seem very credible to me.  It is humorous how defensive you become though, so carry on! 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #986 on: February 17, 2018, 05:21:40 PM »

I'm not saying you have to use force.  But the US must be involved in a solution to the turmoil engulfing the region, as the US inflamed it, we could even argue, caused it.
If indeed we *The US* are responsible for the chaos, and I don't doubt we have a great deal of guilt, then we could actually help with a  solution  to end the war.    At this point we are merely attempting to forward our own interests, at whatever cost is necessary for anyone who isn't in line with our plans.   

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #987 on: February 17, 2018, 05:34:31 PM »

Syria sponsored terrorism against American interests and allies. Just a little payback happening right now. Other Middle Eastern nations get along with us fine and we will help their nations from becoming destabilized by Iran or Syria.

 

What in particular are you talking about regarding state sponsored terrorism against American interests?    American interests in Syria? What interests are we entitled to have within a foreign country?  America should not be the deciding force in this war.  We will rightfully be resented and retaliated against. 

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline BillyB

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #988 on: February 17, 2018, 06:32:23 PM »
What in particular are you talking about regarding state sponsored terrorism against American interests?    American interests in Syria? What interests are we entitled to have within a foreign country?  America should not be the deciding force in this war.  We will rightfully be resented and retaliated against. 

Fathertime!


It's what Syria does outside of their country that pisses off people. They also provide safe haven for many terrorist groups. They've been designated a State sponsor of terrorism since the nice guy Jimmy Carter administration.


http://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/c14151.htm
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #989 on: February 17, 2018, 11:04:30 PM »
Poor you, can't even look up a source.  YOU can do your own searches, the info is plain to see.

FT for. "I'm busted and am just too 'proud' to admit that the Al-ASSad dynasty wasn't elected "-  :thumbsdown:
I now know they came to power in a coup - no 'elections' and even when one was held - it was a farce - with even the then UN Sec Gen dissing it.. Just don't expect me to thank you for proving I was an idiot"

 
I have quite a few doubts about what you have stated about your personal history, but I don't feel the need to harp on that very much.   

That'll be because you know I can( easily)  back it up... ;)

 

Your overall ignorance/intolerance makes me think you aren't very competent in whatever you do, or have done.   I don't care about your little dispute with former posters, based on your own words, you don't seem very credible to me.  It is humorous how defensive you become though, so carry on! 

Na, no valid ripost here, either .. FT's last resort? ..bore us with meaningless 'insults' ..the only 'ignorance' is your repeating fibs and inability to put your hands up when busted re the 'history' you based your 'stance' on.








Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #990 on: February 18, 2018, 02:17:44 AM »
FT for. "I'm busted and am just too 'proud' to admit that the Al-ASSad dynasty wasn't elected "-  :thumbsdown:
I now know they came to power in a coup - no 'elections' and even when one was held - it was a farce - with even the then UN Sec Gen dissing it.. Just don't expect me to thank you for proving I was an idiot"

A UN delegation stated the elections were free and fair.  That doesn't necessarily have to be believed though to state that this is the Government of Syria and the latest election process was iffy...but given the circumstances that is the best that can be done. 


That'll be because you know I can( easily)  back it up... ;)

Na, no valid ripost here, either .. FT's last resort? ..bore us with meaningless 'insults' ..the only 'ignorance' is your repeating fibs and inability to put your hands up when busted re the 'history' you based your 'stance' on.

You seem to think your personal history is very important to the discussion regarding Syria.  I really don't think it is, and to be frank, I don't believe the way you comment on yourself.  It is odd to me that you would even try to pump yourself up like that.   

The stance I have take hasn't changed.  The US hasn't any business being an important or determining factor in who rules Syria.  We don't have any rights in Syria, and has done quite a bit to help foul up the region. 

Fatherime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #991 on: February 18, 2018, 02:20:27 AM »
...You don't know Russian or Russia or Russian women and you've never been to these places - and constantly prove it ...

Moby, I can remember fathertime posting a while ago that he HAD visited Ukraine.  As for the rest of it, I couldn't possibly comment.

I'm sure that FT will let me know if I'm right or wrong.

Offline msmob

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #992 on: February 18, 2018, 08:07:20 AM »
A UN delegation stated the elections were free and fair. 

Another FT historical howler... Please waste your time finding the 'source' for your fiction.

You won't as you know it was complete bollox.

Offline Gator

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #993 on: February 18, 2018, 10:08:07 AM »

Too late for that.  A lot of this instability is a result of the illegal invasion of Iraq....

Yes and no. 

Yes, Saddam Hussein when in power was an Arab counterbalance to Iran.  His overthrow by the US-led invasion left a power vacuum.   Even more important, the decisions the US made in an attempt to transition to a more democratic government were unrealistic failures and made Iraq unstable.   Radical groups ranged free, particularly after US troops were removed, and this eventually led to the ISIS caliphate.  The previously oppressed majority (the Shia) gained power and  allowed the Shia government of Iran to gain much influence in Iraq, thus removing Iraq as an Arab counterbalance to Iran. The only bright spot were the Kurds, who operated a stable form of governance in their homelands. 

No, the Arab Spring starting in 2010 had much to do with the instability elsewhere,  leading to civil wars in Syria and Libya where the West  later felt the need to get involved.    Iraq, Syria and Libya represent three different models for involvement by the West to support democracy:  bombing and invasion (Iraq), bombing and support of rebels (Libya), no bombing but support of rebels (Syria) with no bombing even after Assad crossed the chemical weapons redline.   The West stayed out of many Arab nations where most put down the revolution with violent measures.   The most impacted seems to be Yemen where the West has done very little even though Iran is playing a heavy hand.     The Arab Spring succeeded only in Tunisia.

 

Quote
...so I think the US is under a moral obligation to try to broker peace.

Yes, we have been very successful in quickly brokering an agreement between Israel and the Palestinians.  This is not a job for the US to lead. 


I feel the Europeans should take the lead.  They drew the maps after WWI, and have a longer history in the Middle East, UK, France and Italy as colonial powers.  Europeans are more dependent upon Middle East  oil and would suffer the most if a regional  war broke out.  The US can do much to support the Europeans.

Offline Boethius

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #994 on: February 18, 2018, 02:30:25 PM »
I think the toppling of Saddam Hussein was more than just the lack of a counterbalance to Iran.  The Project for a New American Century, the "blueprint" for the invasion of Iraq, stated that toppling Hussein would lead to an "Arab Spring".  I don't think there would have been an "Arab Spring" without the invasion of Iraq.


The US has interfered in the Middle East since at least the 1950's, therefore, it is morally obligated to at least attempt to broker peace. 
After the fall of communism, the biggest mistake Boris Yeltsin's regime made was not to disband the KGB altogether. Instead it changed its name to the FSB and, to many observers, morphed into a gangster organisation, eventually headed by master criminal Vladimir Putin. - Gerard Batten

Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #995 on: February 18, 2018, 02:31:29 PM »
Moby, I can remember fathertime posting a while ago that he HAD visited Ukraine.  As for the rest of it, I couldn't possibly comment.

I'm sure that FT will let me know if I'm right or wrong.
I've done many things, although unlike mody,  generally I find it pointless to try to use any traveling for business or pleasure as a currency of great value in a discussion here.  It is humorous for a tourist like himself try to pretend he has unique knowledge.    Even living in the USA doesn't necessarily mean an individual really has the credentials to act as if his opinion is the absolute truth.  Generally it is foolish people that dismiss and think their incomplete and/or biased interpretation of events is the only thing that can be correct.    Mody fills that role perfectly and for that I must thank him for his entertainment value. The position I have has been unchanged by his comments. 


Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline alex330

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #996 on: February 18, 2018, 02:54:33 PM »
Detailed military reporting on the event that rained brimstone down on the Russian "mercs". Many of the injured back in Russia will die from severe injuries, raising the number of casualties.

http://thedefensepost.com/2018/02/10/russians-killed-coalition-strikes-deir-ezzor-syria/

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #997 on: February 18, 2018, 03:09:13 PM »
The position I have has been unchanged by his comments. 

'Positions' like Syria has had free elections under the Al-ASSad dynasty ? !

Moby, I can remember fathertime posting a while ago that he HAD visited Ukraine.  As for the rest of it, I couldn't possibly comment.

I'm sure that FT will let me know if I'm right or wrong.

If FT has been to Ukraine, that is indeed the FSU and unlike him, I'm willing to apologise for posting bollox ..


Offline fathertime

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #998 on: February 18, 2018, 03:40:25 PM »
'Positions' like Syria has had free elections under the Al-ASSad dynasty ? !
The latest election was considered free and fair by many, other elections were likely done unfairly.  As an outsider, it really isn't my business to dictate how Syria is or has been run.  Prior to the war they were a stable country, and Assad was considered to be moderate relatively speaking.  Now, during a western backed civil war all bets are off. 


If FT has been to Ukraine, that is indeed the FSU and unlike him, I'm willing to apologise for posting bollox ..

I really don't think you need to apologize.  What would be better is to respond what is said, rather than trying to discredit the individual making the point.   Reminds me of what Laura Ingraham just tried to do to LeBron James this week.    His response and her response to his response is putting her in a tight spot.   

Fathertime! 
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline msmob

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Re: The Russian/Syrian connection thread
« Reply #999 on: February 19, 2018, 12:29:15 AM »
More FT obuscation

Fess up man - you're busted and you know it..

The latest election was considered free and fair by many,

1/ NOT as you claimed by the UN. - you'll know the feelings of the then UN Sec Gen, by now - I've pointed them out to you 3 times, already - such is your obstinance to fact when presented

2/ The 2014 'elections' only took part in the parts of the country under Al-ASSad control..

3/ 'Elections' prior to that had only one candidate - as no-one could stand ..

ANYONE with a clue would long ago have conceded, " I was wrong - thanks for putting me straight" ... but only the likes of FT, the current Kremlin-team and the dictatorial dynasty he is defending could still suggest such elections were 'fair' ...



other elections were likely done unfairly.  As an outsider, it really isn't my business to dictate how Syria is or has been run.  Prior to the war they were a stable country, and Assad was considered to be moderate relatively speaking.  Now, during a western backed civil war all bets are off. 

No, there were ALL 'unfair' - but you ARE budging ... you'll get there - when you can concede NO elections under the Al-ASSad dynasty have been 'fair' - but that would mean admitting you WERE clueless ;)



I really don't think you need to apologize.  What would be better is to respond what is said, rather than trying to discredit the individual making the point.   Reminds me of what Laura Ingraham just tried to do to LeBron James this week.    His response and her response to his response is putting her in a tight spot.   

Fathertime!

FT,

If I make a mistake - it is only right and fair to apologise .. you might like to try it sometime ...

You knew b all about the Al-ASSad dynasty and 'moderate' was an aspiration the west hoped for - under Al-ASSad mark II... sadly, it has become clear that his advisers were more concerned about not being arrested by a victorious democratic movement - oppression it from the get go with unreasonable and disproportionate force .

We has come full-circle

IF the west had imposed a no-fly zone - it is likely Al-ASSad  and his cronies would have gone .. 


 

 

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