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Author Topic: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues  (Read 7437 times)

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Offline Trenchcoat

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #125 on: January 18, 2018, 08:17:45 AM »
Losing markets is an over-exaggeration, even with tariffs trade would still continue, you would have to have sky high tariffs of around 100 percent or more to be effectively act as a barrier to trade, this isn't going to happen. So trade will continue, worst case scenario is that we will lose some trade with the EU but this is very likely to be off set with trade from other non-EU countries since we will be able to reach trade agreements with them more freely. Either way the UK will be better off since we will not be too dependant on one market whereby if the EU catches a cold we sneeze.

Recent announcements by Junker and Tusk that they would welcome the UK back demonstrate that they are in a no win situation, they both wouldn't have made such an announcement otherwise. They know which ever way they turn, they lose - if they don't reach a trade deal they (France & Germany, etc) lose, if they reach a trade deal then they know they have to offer UK preferential terms such as dropping freedom of movement, they lose - they also know that existing tie ups with Ireland etc mean it will be hard for them to offer the UK anything else. Once the UK leaves the EU other nations will look at how the UK fairs and consider leaving themselves, they lose. After all who will want to pay for all the Brussels cronies if they see the UK doing better without - it will become apparent to their citizens at any rate like a poster boy for leaving the EU, they lose. The only way they win and the UK loses is if we stay in the EU, they can go back to riding rough shod over our wishes and again right the British public off as insignificant and ignore us.   

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #126 on: January 18, 2018, 11:27:59 AM »
Losing markets is an over-exaggeration,

1/ 'We' are already losing the Euro clearing trade - 4,000 well paid jobs - doesn't include those that will lose out on that spending power going elsewhere

2/ That's just ONE example of UK PLC's lemming -like jumping off a cliff - to well-paid financial services sector... Estimates range from 3k ( Leave) to 150K jobs (remain) - heard it on BBC Radio 4 this lunchtime ...Rees-Mogg was in denial - as ususal


Recent announcements by Junker and Tusk that they would welcome the UK back demonstrate that they are in a no win situation,

NO.. they are demonstrating that they know the younger, educated population of the UK never wanted to leave and will sooner, rather than later hold sway and we can hopefully put this lunacy - brought about by lying politicians and a gullible electorate - behind us ..

I  noted that he - like all 'leavers' - cannot explain how we can keep an open border with the EU ( N.Ireland) and  do a 'hard' Brexit' ....)))
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 04:58:21 PM by msmob »
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #127 on: January 18, 2018, 03:29:13 PM »
1/ 'We' are already losing the Euro clearing trade - 4,000 well paid jobs - doesn't include those that will lose out on that spending power going elsewhere

2/ That's just ONE example of UK PLC's lemming -like jumping off a cliff - to well-paid financial services sector... Estimates range from 3k ( Leave) to 150K jobs (remain) - heard it on BBC Radio 4 this lunchtime ...Rees-Mogg was in denial - as ususal

NO.. they are demonstrating that they know the younger, educated population of the UK never wanted to leave and will sooner, rather than later hold sway and we can hopefully put this lunacy - brought about by lying politicians and a gullible electorate - behind us ..

I was noted that he- like all 'leavers' - cannot explain how we can keep an open border with the EU ( N.Ireland) and  do a 'hard' Brexit' ....)))

Not good to let ourselves be held to ransom Mobers, it's all insignificant when considering the big picure, the City has always been a menace anyway, an undue influence on British politics & vested interests of the rich.

A lot of the educated younger generation voted to leave as well, a lot of them don't get a look into the jobs market because a lot of immigrants from inside & outside the EU who are ready baked in the jobs they are aiming for get them.

It looks like it's going to be a combination of soft & hard Brexit. Basically an end to freedom of movement and the single market for us but some alternative form of free trade in its place. The EU really have no choice but to aquiese in that or face a hard Brexit on a no deal situation. That would not be in the economic  interests of many if it's member nations.

DUP would have no influence in this as if they got in the way it would be another General Election and they would be out of power anyway.

The young will remember all of the incompetent blunderings and impositions of the EU such as trying to force Asylum Seekers upon us against drawn up policy that they should take residence in first safe nation & the failures of the Euro with economies such as Greece, etc and their overbearing/belittling nature, I don't think they will be wanting back in somehow not if they want somewhere to live it's our only hope of controlling immigration numbers.
« Last Edit: January 18, 2018, 03:48:42 PM by Trenchcoat »

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #128 on: January 18, 2018, 05:15:05 PM »
Not good to let ourselves be held to ransom Mobers

1/ it was a select bunch of rich businessmen seeking a weaker that spent oodles of cash on lying advertising

2/ We aren't being 'held to ransom' ... a 'hard brexit' is when 'we' can't agree and have to fall back on default WTA tariffs.... which will not happen as long as the DUP support the govt.... They'll bring it down, rather than a 'hard Brexit' ...

A lot of the educated younger generation voted to leave as well, a lot of them don't get a look into the jobs market because a lot of immigrants from inside & outside the EU who are ready baked in the jobs they are aiming for get them.

It's a proven fact that

1/ Younger voters were in the majority to remain

2/ those with tertiary education - majority voted to remain

YES, the majority voted to 'leave' - but they had no idea that 'project fear' - as the leavers called the factual predictions coming into reality - was actually FACT ....


It looks like it's going to be a combination of soft & hard Brexit. Basically an end to freedom of movement and the single market for us but some alternative form of free trade in its place. The EU really have no choice but to aquiese in that or face a hard Brexit on a no deal situation. That would not be in the economic  interests of many if it's member nations.

You are out of your depth ..

HOW can you have an 'end to freedom of movement' for EU citizens, when part of the UK ( Northern Ireland) is physically joined to an EU state and there'll be NO borders ?   

This is a question the 'hard' brexiters duck and dodge ..as time gets closer - it will bring down May's govt.

DUP would have no influence in this as if they got in the way it would be another General Election and they would be out of power anyway.


The DUP will sacrifice being king-makers rather than allowing a 'hard' Brexit...  You don't understand 101 stuff.


The young will remember all of the incompetent blunderings and impositions of the EU such as trying to force Asylum Seekers upon us against drawn up policy that they should take residence in first safe nation & the failures of the Euro with economies such as Greece, etc and their overbearing/belittling nature, I don't think they will be wanting back in somehow not if they want somewhere to live it's our only hope of controlling immigration numbers.

My daughters will have Irish passports and when more people see jobs disappearing to Dublin, Paris, Frankfurt, etc., the penny will drop for more and more...

Many of the elderly who voted 'leave' now see that their care assistants / nurses are leaving as the workers either see no future or the is too weak - not worth-while coming here to send money home..

Really, have you got a subject on which you ARE knowledgeable ?

 
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #129 on: January 18, 2018, 05:57:21 PM »

You are out of your depth ..

HOW can you have an 'end to freedom of movement' for EU citizens, when part of the UK ( Northern Ireland) is physically joined to an EU state and there'll be NO borders ?   

This is a question the 'hard' brexiters duck and dodge ..as time gets closer - it will bring down May's govt.


The DUP will sacrifice being king-makers rather than allowing a 'hard' Brexit...  You don't understand 101 stuff.


Really you make me laugh Mobers, yes, anyone in the EU will likely be able to come to the UK and vice versa BUT they will not have the right to work anymore, they will have to acquire documentation (visa) proving they have been given the right to work. So it will be a bit like Ukraine and the system brought in last year where they could visit as tourists just not go there for work purposes. So hence ending freedom of movement as we know it. There may well of course be work arounds for anyone bothered enough to go the long route to obtaining right to work in the UK but it will end the mass migration to work in the UK we have been seeing thank god.

Mobe, the Tories are not bothered about the DUP, they have given them a bung, if they end up hell bent on bringing the government down its no big deal, a General Election is called its not like its a Revolution or anything. For the Tories all this Brexit stuff is what they are focused on, they will take it as far as they can and if they are stopped by the DUP they will see no point in carrying on as they are as its their one key issue they are concerned with so why press on with other matters? The Tories will see a GE as the only way to resolve the matter even if it means a possibility of Labour winning they will at least then have the issue taken off their hands rather than being in limbo land.

Politicians are usually adept at finding solutions to problems these days Mobers I don't think they see it in as black and white terms as you do. I think you'll soon see that it is you that are out of your depth on this one ;) Remoaners lost you have to come to terms with the referendum result. 

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #130 on: January 19, 2018, 03:29:35 AM »
Really you make me laugh Mobers, yes, anyone in the EU will likely be able to come to the UK and vice versa BUT they will not have the right to work anymore, they will have to acquire documentation (visa) proving they have been given the right to work. So it will be a bit like Ukraine and the system brought in last year where they could visit as tourists just not go there for work purposes. So hence ending freedom of movement as we know it. There may well of course be work arounds for anyone bothered enough to go the long route to obtaining right to work in the UK but it will end the mass migration to work in the UK we have been seeing thank god.

Aha, a Trench climb-down...    There will be freedom of movement - no visas - but a ( possibly) a restriction on employment, you reckon ?  ;)   Tell that that to the BMW's of this world - sending workers to Cowley or bank staff to the City .. it's falling apart ... Why do you think Farage is 'back'  ...he can see all his dreams turning to dust

Mobe, the Tories are not bothered about the DUP, they have given them a bung, if they end up hell bent on bringing the government down its no big deal, a General Election is called its not like its a Revolution or anything. For the Tories all this Brexit stuff is what they are focused on, they will take it as far as they can and if they are stopped by the DUP they will see no point in carrying on as they are as its their one key issue they are concerned with so why press on with other matters? The Tories will see a GE as the only way to resolve the matter even if it means a possibility of Labour winning they will at least then have the issue taken off their hands rather than being in limbo land.

Thanks for confirming you're clueless about the Political reality ...  Without the DUP the legislation to leave the EU will not carry

Politicians are usually adept at finding solutions to problems these days Mobers I don't think they see it in as black and white terms as you do. I think you'll soon see that it is you that are out of your depth on this one ;) Remoaners lost you have to come to terms with the referendum result.

Sighs, yes  leave won - by a small margin - but there was no agreement on the mechanics of leaving - and the end result ... an EEA like status of Norway, complete break, etc., 

Leavers try to bury the N.I border issue and only a fool or ignorant person would suggest the DUP haven't the power to influence ..they ARE the kingmakers or slayers

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #131 on: January 19, 2018, 05:55:34 AM »
Aha, a Trench climb-down...    There will be freedom of movement - no visas - but a ( possibly) a restriction on employment, you reckon ?  ;)   Tell that that to the BMW's of this world - sending workers to Cowley or bank staff to the City .. it's falling apart ... Why do you think Farage is 'back'  ...he can see all his dreams turning to dust

Thanks for confirming you're clueless about the Political reality ...  Without the DUP the legislation to leave the EU will not carry

Sighs, yes  leave won - by a small margin - but there was no agreement on the mechanics of leaving - and the end result ... an EEA like status of Norway, complete break, etc., 

Mobe, the companies that wanted to dictate a 'Remain' vote in the referendum no longer hold sway. They tended to be the Tony Blairite wealthy globalised corporations who since his time in office sought to perform well by insisting to the government that they needed an oversupply of labour to keep their costs cheap so they could become immensely wealthy by creating an intolerable living situation in the countries in which they operate. You have to consider who the government of today now have to consider Mobers. There is no way of them doing a Tony Blair and igoring the wishes of the people and not shutting down this right to work in the UK. They would be mauled in the next GE, the electorate would be entirely disatisfied, a lot of their own party would be objectionable as they would lose their seats and UKIP would be back I'm business. It's 'the' main issue why the population voted for Brexit. Such is May's slim majority in parliament that she will not get it through anyway. Work visa's for EU workers will be in the final deal.

The final leg of the legislation to leave the EU is going through parliament now but it has little to do with the deal being reached. The DUP has agreed to support this legislation as they support Brexit. In any case if Theresa really had to she could aquiese to Corbyn's demands on it and get Labour support. The legislation going through is about being organised in this country on leaving whether deal or no deal. It'S the deal being hashed out at the moment the DUP are concerned about not the EU exit bill. If necessary the government will call mother GE or just leave it to time out of the EU after 2 years which the DUP can do nothing about. In all likelihood none of that will happen as the Tories will look to satisfy the DUP on the issue just as they must satisfy other key groups/issues on how we leave the EU, global corporations for once are not one of those groups.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #132 on: January 19, 2018, 06:51:05 AM »
Mobe, the companies that wanted to dictate a 'Remain' vote in the referendum no longer hold sway. They tended to be the Tony Blairite wealthy globalised corporations

Where DO you get your 'knowledge', Trench ?  So Financial institutions are products of Socialism ?))))

You have to consider who the government of today now have to consider Mobers. There is no way of them doing a Tony Blair and igoring the wishes of the people and not shutting down this right to work in the UK. They would be mauled in the next GE, the electorate would be entirely disatisfied, a lot of their own party would be objectionable as they would lose their seats and UKIP would be back I'm business. It's 'the' main issue why the population voted for Brexit. Such is May's slim majority in parliament that she will not get it through anyway. Work visa's for EU workers will be in the final deal.

Unlike you, I have considered the govts's. situation ... They fought an election for a mandate for a 'hard' Brexit and lost a shed load of seats .... They aren't too smart if they haven't figured why, yet ..


The final leg of the legislation to leave the EU is going through parliament now but it has little to do with the deal being reached. The DUP has agreed to support this legislation as they support Brexit. In any case if Theresa really had to she could aquiese to Corbyn's demands on it and get Labour support. The legislation going through is about being organised in this country on leaving whether deal or no deal. It'S the deal being hashed out at the moment the DUP are concerned about not the EU exit bill. If necessary the government will call mother GE or just leave it to time out of the EU after 2 years which the DUP can do nothing about. In all likelihood none of that will happen as the Tories will look to satisfy the DUP on the issue just as they must satisfy other key groups/issues on how we leave the EU, global corporations for once are not one of those groups.

The DUP will not support any legislation that means a change in the border ( ie. no customs / immigration checks ) nor the need for checks when going to 'the mainland' (GB)

I wonder how this is SO hard to 'get' ?.. 'hard' Brexit is finished ...
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #133 on: January 19, 2018, 10:49:12 AM »
Blair was hardly socialist Moby, most traditional Labour supporters/voters/sympathiers hate Blair and we're glad to be rid of him when he finally went, me included. Blair is the reason many traditional Labour supporters voted UKIP, me included :)

The Gov lost a lot of seats at the election because they moved off issues on Brexit on which they were strongest and onto undermining their core voters - the elderly because they wanted to fund an elderly persons social care by selling off their home. This was a blunder and a bug vote loser for them, they got overconfident and thought they could get all what they wished as the electorate would follow them on anything because of Brexit, they were wrong. They also failed to see the student vote was up for grabs this time around as the Lib Dems had lost it. Corbyn & Labour were astute enough to realise that the student vote could save them from annialation. May putting her foot in it was just the cherry on top.

Moby the hard brexit of stopping/restricting EU workers working here will be mixed with the soft Brexit of non border checks/customs checks with Ireland and a form off free trade or as near as. It's pointless to argue over this as this is how it will be it's predetermined as it is the only way it can be sorted. The only other way with tariffs is just not on the table at the moment anyway. Essentially May has to please enough in her own party & parliament to get this through. It means sailing a steady course between all the competing demands on this or that. So far enough has been delivered to all competing factions to keep them content. I don't see that changing.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #134 on: January 19, 2018, 06:03:27 PM »
Blair was hardly socialist Moby, most traditional Labour supporters/voters/sympathiers hate Blair and we're glad to be rid of him when he finally went, me included. Blair is the reason many traditional Labour supporters voted UKIP, me included :)

STUPID, uneducated, and gullible people voted UKIP - but thanks for proving my theory

Blair was a socialist, led a Socialist party and simply realised that Thatcher had moved the UK to the right - by making former Council House owners, property owners.

If you / your family were conned by Blair and then became UKIP - you are further confirming just how dumb some of our electorate are ...



The Gov lost a lot of seats at the election because they moved off issues on Brexit on which they were strongest and onto undermining their core voters - the elderly because they wanted to fund an elderly persons social care by selling off their home.

Yet these are the dumb idiots who threw away a healthy majority and need the DUP to'run' the country .... May is still having the splinters surgically removed from her arse - having sat on the fence - and it should be clear to those with a clue that she cannot read people / their mood

Moby the hard brexit of stopping/restricting EU workers working here will be mixed with the soft Brexit of non border checks/customs checks with Ireland and a form off free trade or as near as. It's pointless to argue over this as this is how it will be it's predetermined as it is the only way it can be sorted. The only other way with tariffs is just not on the table at the moment anyway. Essentially May has to please enough in her own party & parliament to get this through. It means sailing a steady course between all the competing demands on this or that. So far enough has been delivered to all competing factions to keep them content. I don't see that changing.

Flannel - you are dodging my constant point ..  you cannot 'restrict' EU freedom of movement when we don't know when folk arrived - if arriving via the R o Ireland..

HOW can you know who is 'legal' ? ))



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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #135 on: January 20, 2018, 12:19:45 AM »
STUPID, uneducated, and gullible people voted UKIP - but thanks for proving my theory

Blair was a socialist, led a Socialist party and simply realised that Thatcher had moved the UK to the right - by making former Council House owners, property owners.

If you / your family were conned by Blair and then became UKIP - you are further confirming just how dumb some of our electorate are ...



Yet these are the dumb idiots who threw away a healthy majority and need the DUP to'run' the country .... May is still having the splinters surgically removed from her arse - having sat on the fence - and it should be clear to those with a clue that she cannot read people / their mood

Flannel - you are dodging my constant point ..  you cannot 'restrict' EU freedom of movement when we don't know when folk arrived - if arriving via the R o Ireland..

HOW can you know who is 'legal' ? ))

Mobers, Blair was known in some quarters as a 'pink Tory' some see him more as a social democat, few would see him as socialist. The Labour party is essentially divided into Blairites and anti-Blairites (Old Labour) amoung other divisions. Corbyn managed to defeat the Blairites twice over when he gained leadership of the party then subsequently defeating the challenge to his leadership. Three times in fact if you count doing far better in the GE than the Blairites expected him to do and so seeing of any further challenge. Jeremy Corbyn realises many Labour supporters are less than emphatic fir the EU himself included and he has avoided getting too cosy with either on the issue to avoid splitting his patry. He knows like the Tories that post leaving it will cease to be an issue.

May miscalculated for sure and you ate probably right that she cannot read people well enough. She stuffed up an easy win. The only plus for her is that she has a 5 year mandate do can go to 2022 well after all the EU business if she can keep the DUP on side.

You are right Mobers in so far as the UK will not know directly where people are coming from if the enter through Ireland. They would have to rely on Ireland checking that they are from the EU but that is how it is at present anyway. Which is why I say a lot of this stuff is actually already settled. All EU citizens are likely to get visa free entry to the UK for an unlimited period and all UK citizens will get the same visa free access to the EU. MOT just because the UK Gov would expect the same in return but because UK citizens could pass from Northern to Southern Ireland without border check. So UK citizens would be going into an EU nation without control. Hence why the hard Brexit part would just be the loss of the right to work part of the freedom of movement policy not the whole loss of freedom of movement. So employers would check right to work on a country as they presently do and many EU citizens would no longer qualify and vice versa. But seeing as far more come to work here than we do abroad we would benefit, less competition for jobs, higher wages, etc :)

It would all take a while before any noticeable impact of course and there are work arounds for anyone bothered enough i.e a UK  or EU citizen goes to live in Ireland for 5 years and gains citizenship there or again UK or EU travel to each other and dropS an anchor baby. These are extremes though and most won't bother just for the right to work there. Importantly they will be able to visit family and relatives throughout the UK  and EU freely and that will suit most.

You see the genius of leaving the EU Moby, we end up in a better position almost by default and it is this Junker & Tusk do not like as they can do little about it. That is why they both want the UK to rejoin the EU before these benefits become known as they know otherwise they are going to be permently stuck with the situation. Read between the lines Mobers ;)

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #136 on: January 20, 2018, 04:44:23 PM »
Mobers, Blair was known in some quarters as a 'pink Tory' some see him more as a social democat, few would see him as socialist.

Yeah, but there's always folk daft enough to believe such bollox

You were too young to remember ( or care) but John Major wanted us to save and start pensions, early ... Blair and Brown - robbed us by taxing our pensions...

Rally, I think you  believe anything you read, rather than checking if the person has a clue...

The Labour party is essentially divided into Blairites and anti-Blairites (Old Labour) amoung other divisions.

The Tories have always had the further right ( anti-EU) and moderate right ( pro EU)  ...and ?

Corbyn took control of an undetectable party and only the stupidity of May's ( you highlighted it ) plan to hit pensioners ( prompted by a farcical volte face)  allowed him to do as well as he did.

Corbyn is 'anti-EU' - but sat on the fence and May has proven to be pretty aloof, unable to read ppl, the political climate and absolutely misses how to deal with crises - like the Grenfell Tower fatalities 

The only plus for her is that she has a 5 year mandate do can go to 2022 well after all the EU business if she can keep the DUP on side.


Once again, proving you don't READ ..She needs 'em and can't deliver a 'hard Brexit'  - as they'll just let her govt fall

So employers would check right to work on a country as they presently do and many EU citizens would no longer qualify and vice versa. But seeing as far more come to work here than we do abroad we would benefit, less competition for jobs, higher wages, etc :)

Now tell me HOW the govt is going to know when an EU citizen arrived ? ....



You see the genius of leaving the EU Moby, we end up in a better position almost by default and it is this Junker & Tusk do not like as they can do little about it. That is why they both want the UK to rejoin the EU before these benefits become known as they know otherwise they are going to be permently stuck with the situation. Read between the lines Mobers ;)

'Genius' is 'threatening your biggest market for exports'  that you  will tax their imports  ))))  ?   Like they are so 'scared' ....   

Suggest YOU read the newspapers in other nations as they are ALL readiy to profit from our folly





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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #137 on: January 21, 2018, 12:08:06 AM »
Yeah, but there's always folk daft enough to believe such bollox

You were too young to remember ( or care) but John Major wanted us to save and start pensions, early ... Blair and Brown - robbed us by taxing our pensions...

Rally, I think you  believe anything you read, rather than checking if the person has a clue...

The Tories have always had the further right ( anti-EU) and moderate right ( pro EU)  ...and ?

Corbyn took control of an undetectable party and only the stupidity of May's ( you highlighted it ) plan to hit pensioners ( prompted by a farcical volte face)  allowed him to do as well as he did.

Corbyn is 'anti-EU' - but sat on the fence and May has proven to be pretty aloof, unable to read ppl, the political climate and absolutely misses how to deal with crises - like the Grenfell Tower fatalities 


Once again, proving you don't READ ..She needs 'em and can't deliver a 'hard Brexit'  - as they'll just let her govt fall

Now tell me HOW the govt is going to know when an EU citizen arrived ? ....



'Genius' is 'threatening your biggest market for exports'  that you  will tax their imports  ))))  ?   Like they are so 'scared' ....   

Suggest YOU read the newspapers in other nations as they are ALL readiy to profit from our folly

It's no use remoaning Mobers Brexit is going to happen it is a fact, Remoaners lost the referendum so that's that :)

Private pensions are a waste of time I dint bother with them, never have and never will. If you look how much more you get with the state pension compared to what you put in (national insurance compared to private/workplace pension contributions) the sum you get back as an annuity is a paltry sum. Most money experts agree that annuities give a poor return on investment. It was Thatchers mistake in opening up the pensions market in the 80s. If we all just contributed to one State Pension we could all enjoy a good retirement instead if funds being wasted in private pensions that return little. They've never really worked.

Not knowing when EU nationals have arrived in the country is not a problem. They will just not be able to work here ad their EU pasports they show UK employers will no longer alow that they will have to get a work visa if they qualify. This was the main reason people voted to leave as all the migrants coming here and taking our jobs was causing havoc. So it will be good to see this situation being brought under control or at least calmed down.

Blair and his cronies such as Lord Adonis have tried to overide the will of the electorate by pulling stunts like resigning from their top level posts thinking it will stop Brexit, yeah like they are so important, lol. Fortunately this has only helped purge most of thEM out of government so it has actually helped in the long run :) Old establishment figures like Ken Clarke are now fighting the new establishment on the outside, hilarious.

The Remoaners in the Labour party tried to rest control of the party from Jeremy Corbyn but the old boy proved too much for them ;)

Abroad, the French President is trying to push for us to pay for free trade access, it's a con as we will get thus anyway. We would be paying for something they would struggle to avoid giving us the situation with Ireland etc means they have little option other than to give us this access. He also has said he wants the UK to rejoin the EU, why? Because all the top level EU leaders have gotten together behind then scenes and have been talking. Then all know that the UK will leave the EU but still get all the benefits and there is little they can do about this - they have discovered get are holding the losing hand oc cards. If they had the winning hand they would not be saying for the UK to rejoin the EU. It goes far beyond a few jobs going abroad Mobers, that is neither here nor there.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #138 on: January 21, 2018, 01:13:54 AM »
It's no use remoaning Mobers Brexit is going to happen it is a fact, Remoaners lost the referendum so that's that :)

Sighs ...except *I* refer to a 'hard Brexit' not happening - not the UK leaving the EU ..

As this is the umpteenth time you've read a poster's valid advice / fact in a manner the proves you don't / won't /read, ]I shouldn't have been surprised



Private pensions are a waste of time[/qyote]


Nice dodge..  They  aren't as attractive because of

1/ They income is taxable - thanks to your 'non-socialist' Socialist Blair/Brown teamwork -whose first Budget screwed those actually being PRUDENT..

2/ The 2007 Crash saw pensions performing badly - esp in comparison with property

Once again, you posted like you 'knew' stuff and ended up proving you don't ...



Not knowing when EU nationals have arrived in the country is not a problem. They will just not be able to work here ad their EU pasports they show UK employers will no longer alow that they will have to get a work visa if they qualify. This was the main reason people voted to leave as all the migrants coming here and taking our jobs was causing havoc. So it will be good to see this situation being brought under control or at least calmed down.

 :ROFL:

Example:  Boris from Bulgaria has never been working in the UK and arrives via Ireland in the post  'brexit'..  How is he any different to  Sergei -  who came before the cut-off point ?  The UK simply don't know if he was here, already or not...

Blair and his cronies such as Lord Adonis have tried to overide the will of the electorate by pulling stunts like resigning from their top level posts thinking it will stop Brexit, yeah like they are so important, lol. Fortunately this has only helped purge most of thEM out of government so it has actually helped in the long run :) Old establishment figures like Ken Clarke are now fighting the new establishment on the outside, hilarious.

Clued-up folk would point out to you that Blair's 'help' was and is never required - given his non-trusted status..

Resignig from a role in govt that you cannot hand on heart participate in - like Cameron and Adonis is not only wise, but praiseworthy - not a 'stunt'



The Remoaners in the Labour party tried to rest control of the party from Jeremy Corbyn but the old boy proved too much for them ;)

ACTUALLY, the Daily Mail, etc., tried to  belittle him and May managed to make him look like a man of the people. He would be a disaster for the UK - if he became PM of a Socialist Party - a leader who really IS anti-EU - at a time when UK PLC needsa sales-person to keep friends

Abroad, the French President is trying to push for us to pay for free trade access, it's a con as we will get thus anyway. [/quote

'Silly boy'.. I foretold Macron would be a major force in French Politics - when the Dail Mail was telling us he got a slap from his old boss for suggesting Le Touquet needed revising..

I suggest you read up on Le Touquet ... He's just extracted another chunk of tax payers money for France to allow the UK border to be on the French side... IF the UK doesn't wake up the anti-EU voters of Dover will find the border controls back on the UK side and the asylum seekers arriving in inflatable boats.....  This is all so easy to predict and Macron holds all the cards...May is a lame duck - needing DUP support and Merkel has internal coalition issues - he's the main man of the EU..


We would be paying for something they would struggle to avoid giving us the situation with Ireland etc means they have little option other than to give us this access. He also has said he wants the UK to rejoin the EU, why? Because all the top level EU leaders have gotten together behind then scenes and have been talking. Then all know that the UK will leave the EU but still get all the benefits and there is little they can do about this - they have discovered get are holding the losing hand oc cards. If they had the winning hand they would not be saying for the UK to rejoin the EU. It goes far beyond a few jobs going abroad Mobers, that is neither here nor there.

You miss the irony .. We WILL be paying to a club for access to markets we cannot afford to lose and not sitting at the table -making the rules- AND EU folk will STILL be coming and working

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #139 on: January 21, 2018, 02:09:56 AM »
Mobe, the Gov will simply issue a right to work to anyone that is here already. Anyone who is not who is a member of the EU after Brexit who hasn't already been given one will be deemed as ineligible and it will be obvious that came here layer than current EU residents. Job sorted.

We will not be paying the EU no more money, another main principle of those of us that voted Leave. Wishful thinking on Macron's part. We have the upper hand not them.

p.s Private & Workplace pensions have always proven themselves to be no good, tax or no tax. Just look at all the companies with shortfalls in ther pension payments, Carrillion, Toys R Us, Tara Steel. Not good for them or us it seems. The current compulsory workplace pension system is already failing. Time we all came together behind the State pension & ban private & workplace pensions outright.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #140 on: January 21, 2018, 01:25:48 PM »
Mobe, the Gov will simply issue a right to work to anyone that is here already. Anyone who is not who is a member of the EU after Brexit who hasn't already been given one will be deemed as ineligible and it will be obvious that came here layer than current EU residents. Job sorted.

Trench, it is hard responding to someone who won't read - that idea is open to such abuse .....  EU folks could still come, but they're leaving because of

1/ the vote

2/ the GBP is weak - so not worth working here and sending money home

We will not be paying the EU no more money, another main principle of those of us that voted Leave. Wishful thinking on Macron's part. We have the upper hand not them.

We ARE paying the EU money - now and even if we leave - other LIE - those who voted 'leave' believed

p.s Private & Workplace pensions have always proven themselves to be no good, tax or no tax. Just look at all the companies with shortfalls in ther pension payments, Carrillion, Toys R Us, Tara Steel. Not good for them or us it seems. The current compulsory workplace pension system is already failing. Time we all came together behind the State pension & ban private & workplace pensions outright.

You are like BillyB..when stumped - you try to deflect a fail - by introducing a red herring and going off at a tangent

I remember how we got here : you suggestion that Blair and his policies were akin to Tory policy )))

Best you don't try to tell us about how crooks misuse Pensioner's money - they certainly ain't 'businessmen'

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #141 on: January 22, 2018, 12:46:48 AM »
Trench, it is hard responding to someone who won't read - that idea is open to such abuse .....  EU folks could still come, but they're leaving because of

1/ the vote

2/ the GBP is weak - so not worth working here and sending money home

We ARE paying the EU money - now and even if we leave - other LIE - those who voted 'leave' believed

You are like BillyB..when stumped - you try to deflect a fail - by introducing a red herring and going off at a tangent

I remember how we got here : you suggestion that Blair and his policies were akin to Tory policy )))

Best you don't try to tell us about how crooks misuse Pensioner's money - they certainly ain't 'businessmen'

No I think it is you that are trying to put forward Red Herrings then claiming it is me because you are stumped and have lost all arguments. You have no argument against companies going into default with their workplace pensions - I have given examples and you have no argument against this. You also have no argument against private & workplace pensions never being any good because if all the failure stories over the decades and no good stories to be heard about them. You also have no argument on Brexit as of course the government can restrict who works here - national inuance numbers are needed for work and the government has the power to introduced whatever scheme it so wishes.

But of course you Moby are too high & mighty to admit when you are wrong. He who had won court cases against legal teams and must be the expert on everything, must be quite the come down ;D

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #142 on: January 22, 2018, 12:54:15 AM »
No I think it is you that are trying to put forward Red Herrings then claiming it is me because you are stumped and have lost all arguments.

 :ROFL:

Try posting a fact that wasn't EASY to take apart..


I think you are a member here to post and pass the time on your daily commute because you are bored..

Meanwhile, UKIP are proving they are and were run by idiots and attracted idiot voters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 02:56:29 AM by msmob »
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #143 on: January 22, 2018, 02:54:39 AM »
:ROFL:

Try posting a fact that wasn't EASY to take apart..


I think you are a member here to pass your daily commute because you are bored..

Meanwhile, UKIP are proving they are and were run by idiots and attracted idiot voters

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42767657

Other news, the pound is steadily rising against the dollar its nearly 1.40 ans the Euro nearly 1.14 not near pre-referendum level but shows we are not going into meltdown under the notion of Brexit as some predicted I think ;D

I think UKIP has always had a problem of cohesion brought about by the fact that most of its members come from either Tories or Labour - so the two clash and are often just united on the issue of Brexit. Now Brexit is almost a full gone conclusion there is more in-fighting than every. UKIP certainly have a posh crowd that has never appealed to me which is why despite my ardent support in recent years toward Brexit I never joined the party as their values were at odds with mine and were just too prominent.

I think Farage has so far proved himself to be the only one who can lead well out of all the leaders UKIP has had and be prominent enough to make an impact.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #144 on: January 22, 2018, 03:24:13 AM »
Other news, the pound is steadily rising against the dollar its nearly 1.40 ans the Euro nearly 1.14 not near pre-referendum level but shows we are not going into meltdown under the notion of Brexit as some predicted I think


Still WAY lower and why isn't it higher - if Brxit is so wonderful - the GBP would be stronger ,,

It is noted that your omitted to note that the GBP now has higher interest rates ..

STILL waiting for a subject you DO have a clue about ?

Meanwhile, want to tell us why - if we were going to be 'saving' 300 million quid a week that the govt admitted there was a 'black hole' in tax  revenues - as a result of Brexit ?

I think

NO.. you don't..


UKIP has always had a problem of cohesion brought about by the fact that most of its members come from either Tories or Labour - so the two clash and are often just united on the issue of Brexit. Now Brexit is almost a full gone conclusion there is more in-fighting than every. UKIP certainly have a posh crowd that has never appealed to me which is why despite my ardent support in recent years toward Brexit I never joined the party as their values were at odds with mine and were just too prominent.

Glad to hear it - as the members were mostly unthinking or racists - only a few smart folk with an agenda to get cheaper exports really had a clue at running the show. You could simply had posted - "you're right, Moby"

I think Farage has so far proved himself to be the only one who can lead well out of all the leaders UKIP has had and be prominent enough to make an impact.

He had his own agenda  (self promotion) ... and has now distanced himself from the loonies and racists that make up the party

So, Trench.. which sector contributes the most to 'UK PLC' and how it it fairing since the referendum?  More jobs or less?

Don't think ... check for FACTS...
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #145 on: January 22, 2018, 05:03:57 AM »
'Some American' - who should know better - posted on a forum where factual responses aren't allowed - quoted from a UK equiv of the National Enquirer... the Daily EXpress - suggesting  that France might vote to leave the EU. too

Except he didn't say that ...    Listening to his whole answer would have spoiled the headline..

The Express also  'left out' ..."He told Marr it was not too late for the UK to change its mind about remaining - describing the 2016 referendum as a "mistake".

"I do respect this vote, I do regret this vote, and I would love to welcome you again," he said.

"It's a mistake when you just ask 'yes' or 'no' when you don't ask people how to improve the situation and explain how to improve it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026


Meanwhile Mrs May spoke of both sides being committed to the Le Touquet agreement  - which given Macron being 'bollocked' by Hollande - his old boss-  for saying a UK EU exit could mean its end - seems 'interesting' [the UK 'border' is currently on the French side - to stop those seeking asylum getting to the UK, first..The French get all the hopeful migrants milling around Calais  ]

Jeez, we can't have the Express printing facts and scaring their readers with FACTS ...











« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 05:07:41 AM by msmob »
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #146 on: January 22, 2018, 05:39:13 PM »

It is noted that your omitted to note that the GBP now has higher interest rates ..

He had his own agenda  (self promotion) ... and has now distanced himself from the loonies and racists that make up the party

So, Trench.. which sector contributes the most to 'UK PLC' and how it it fairing since the referendum?  More jobs or less?


Mobe, the interest rate is back to the level it was a few months back - Carney with the board lowered it and they shouldn't have, there was no need, it has kicked started inflation. Everything was steady at 1/2 a percent interest rate which it is now back too.

Farage is self-promoting himself to what exactly???? I'm a celebrity, get me out of the jungle, lol, he has taken up no positions or bettered himself as a result of being leader of UKIP, quite the opposite he wants a more peaceful life which is why he stepped down, he just fought to save Britain and its way of life, to get us back to a better way of life before we were swamped with economic immigrants.

We haven't left the EU yet so it can't possibly be talked about in terms of job gains or losses. We will need to leave the EU and give it at least a couple of years or so to see the real effect. At the moment there is just the EU pulling a few jobs to make big and try and scare us. The want to scare us back into the EU so no country dare thinks of leaving the EU because we lost our nerve and went snivelling back to the EU to be treated as their b*tch, but perhaps that is the level of dignity you enjoy feeling as someones b*tch.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #147 on: January 22, 2018, 05:59:18 PM »
'Some American' - who should know better - posted on a forum where factual responses aren't allowed - quoted from a UK equiv of the National Enquirer... the Daily EXpress - suggesting  that France might vote to leave the EU. too

Except he didn't say that ...    Listening to his whole answer would have spoiled the headline..

The Express also  'left out' ..."He told Marr it was not too late for the UK to change its mind about remaining - describing the 2016 referendum as a "mistake".

"I do respect this vote, I do regret this vote, and I would love to welcome you again," he said.

"It's a mistake when you just ask 'yes' or 'no' when you don't ask people how to improve the situation and explain how to improve it."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42757026


Meanwhile Mrs May spoke of both sides being committed to the Le Touquet agreement  - which given Macron being 'bollocked' by Hollande - his old boss-  for saying a UK EU exit could mean its end - seems 'interesting' [the UK 'border' is currently on the French side - to stop those seeking asylum getting to the UK, first..The French get all the hopeful migrants milling around Calais  ]

Jeez, we can't have the Express printing facts and scaring their readers with FACTS ...

Macron, the guy is a grade A tosser. Cameron tried to negotiate and got very little for his efforts. The EU should know where they went wrong if they are at all competant as an organisation which they are not. They should know that East European migration to the UK was making a housing shortage even more scarce and jobs a problem. Problem is they are too rigid and set in their ways as an organisation, they have fixed policies and ideology and won't budge from it - even when they are heading to disaster they still won't change course. It would be pointless to try to negotiate anything along the lines that Macron suggests. He is too much like Blair, slimey he will say something like that then when it comes to it ignore all the wishes of the British public and have it all his own way, nothing more insipid. No, the referendum was won fair and square and must be honoured, it was more than clear what it entailed in the long run up to the referendum by both sides. All this whinging that it was not clear is just untrue and a lot off remoaning by those looking to undermine the result.

I personally think that when we leave it could give greater impetus to France to leave as they will likely see us as a preferable trading partner to the EU.

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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #148 on: January 23, 2018, 02:11:51 AM »
Mobe, the interest rate is back to the level it was a few months back

 :ROFL:

The headline:

UK interest rates rise for first time in 10 years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330

Now go back to my point and try to formulate a VALID riposte..based on FACT ..

Farage is self-promoting himself to what exactly???? I'm a celebrity, get me out of the jungle,

'adviser to 'Trampu', a new UK political party ?..

We haven't left the EU yet

..and the jobs in THE financial sector - THE only one that  grew in the hard times that saw other nations economies shrink faster and recover slower - is now losing jobs..to ... the other EU nations..

Stop making 'excuses' ... wake up and admit .. it's a HUGE mistake..

Oh, I forgot ... you can't make a case for leaving - you just quote 'facts' at me ..))
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Re: 'Brexit' - the stupidity continues
« Reply #149 on: January 23, 2018, 05:29:49 AM »
:ROFL:

The headline:

UK interest rates rise for first time in 10 years

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-41846330

Now go back to my point and try to formulate a VALID riposte..based on FACT ..

'adviser to 'Trampu', a new UK political party ?..

..and the jobs in THE financial sector - THE only one that  grew in the hard times that saw other nations economies shrink faster and recover slower - is now losing jobs..to ... the other EU nations..

Stop making 'excuses' ... wake up and admit .. it's a HUGE mistake..

Oh, I forgot ... you can't make a case for leaving - you just quote 'facts' at me ..))

Mobe, your doing a Tony Bliar and skewing the facts.

The first interest rate rise on ten years is a non-event. They should have never been put down in the first place. In any case we are talking of a rise from a quarter to half a percent, hardly shocking.  Interest rates had been on half a percent for ages and all was well at that level, it is merely returning it to a level at which all was well.

I don't see Farage going to be an advisor to Trump. Even if he did I don't think he was angling at that all along he just doesn't give me the impression he is the social climbing type like Blair was.

The reason financial sector jobs grew faster in the recession was because so many got laid of at the start of the recession with the credit crunch you fool. The Gov stepping in and helping out the banks meant that this sector suffered a lot less then it would have done, even though it was responsible for starting the whole mess. The rest of the EU suffered worse since they were linked to the whole Euro/Greek crises debacle so their financial sector was in a lot worse shape because of it. If we had joined the Euro we would have been dragged into that mess also and would have had to stump up for the Greek bailout, no thank you.

Just accept it Mobe, Brexit is happening and there is nothing you can say on here to stop it :)

 

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