Minimum Wage debate - USA

[LiveFromUkraine]

Why don't you start a business and charge huge prices so you can become a gazillionaire, and then contribute your money to charity because your taxes are too low.   

Ahem, I do have my own business and been earning my own money from my own business for over a decade.   I don't understand your charity statements and how that relates to a minimum wage hike or taxes.  Do you see a minimum wage hike as charity?

Why do I imagine you sitting in front of your computer screen,  wearing a T-shirt saying Hands Up - Don't Shoot?

I envision you yelling at people to get off your grass and telling everyone you walked to school in loin cloths.   Of course this type of dialog doesn't push this conversation into a productive state yet I am willing to continue it with you if you so desire.

[LiveFromUkraine]

First I'm happy you are back to posting!

Thanks FT!

I agree with you on carried interest, but I am also think capital gains tax at 15% is too low at this point in time.  In a more perfect world it could be doable....The 15% rate (in the USA) is the lowest in recent decades at a time when we are 18 trillion in the hole and growing daily. The lower classes are getting pinched, so why not pinch the upper classes just a little more, not too be mean or vengeful, but to be fair and keep the society in balance, which benefits all, including the wealthy. 
 Shoot most of the non wealthy are earning <1% on their little savings accts at this point, and I feel that is result of the national debt the country is currently carrying. 


Fathertime!

There are more people than just the wealthy taking advantage of that 15% capital gains tax.  Making it higher will also hurt those retirees with pensions in the stock market.

[LiveFromUkraine]

Why do you agree because I am certain you have no clue what it is?  It is an esoteric tax topic, applicable to a very few, and even fewer as hedge funds continue to implode. 

If eliminated I doubt it would affect total tax revenue significantly.

So why have it at all?  Are you saying we shouldn't eliminate bogus tax breaks like that because it doesn't affect enough people?  I don't understand this type of logic to be honest.


I think all special interest tax breaks should be taken away regardless of how many can take advantage of them.  That is one of the main problems with our tax system

[Gator]

I think all special interest tax breaks should be taken away regardless of how many can take advantage of them.  That is one of the main problems with our tax system

Agree.  Give me Simpson-Bowles or some other flatter tax with no loopholes.   

I am not going to argue "carried tax" with you because I don't know diddly-squat about it.   

[lordtiberius]

Tax spending NOT INCOME. 

An income tax is DUMB DUMB DUMB


fathertime dumb

[fathertime]

Tax spending NOT INCOME. 

An income tax is DUMB DUMB DUMB


fathertime dumb

Wow that is brilliant Einstein,  now just try to implement it, and watch the economy shrivel up.  The framework of the tax code is going nowhere for the foreseeable future.  It can be tweaked and improved from within. 


Fathertime!   

[LiveFromUkraine]

Tax spending NOT INCOME. 

An income tax is DUMB DUMB DUMB


fathertime dumb

Still calling people names and acting like a victim when you get it back, eh?  Very honorable of you.

[lordtiberius]

Still calling people names and acting like a victim when you get it back, eh?  Very honorable of you.

[lordtiberius]

watch the economy shrivel up.

To quote Muzh, evidence please?

Give us examples of countries taxing their way to prosperity . . .

[LiveFromUkraine]

I would be interested in what some of you guys think of Peter Schiff.


Is he a "Chicken Little" or does he have some points?

[fathertime]

To quote Muzh, evidence please?

Give us examples of countries taxing their way to prosperity . . .

That is another stale and meaningless line....A tightening of the taxes is NOT 'taxing their way to prosperity'.  Who do you think pays for all those treatments you get for your mental problems (that you have disclosed)?  The taxpayers do!  Making sure that some of the wealthiest among us at least pay more than 14% of their earnings is NOT unreasonable.  It is always of interest when the most needy *you*...fight for something against your own interests...  I have yet to read any of your reasoning, aside from silly one-liners.     


You can look on the bright side, the IRS has been getting cut as of late...it is an imperfect but necessary department.   


http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/irs-budget-cuts-113651.html


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

You can look on the bright side, the IRS has been getting cut as of late...it is an imperfect but necessary department.   

The IRS is out of control and needs to be reined in. 

[lordtiberius]

The IRS is out of control and needs to be reined in.

[fathertime]

The IRS is out of control and needs to be reined in.

Well they certainly screwed up with that stunt they probably pulled against the tea party groups.  Aside from that, somebody has to enforce the tax laws and if they don't have the money to do it, then more people figure that out and roll the dice.  The amount of phony returns/refunds is disturbing, because that is enriching organized thieves at all the other taxpayer's expense.  If you don't mind my asking, how do you mean 'reined in'? 


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

That is another stale and meaningless line....A tightening of the taxes is NOT 'taxing their way to prosperity'. 

So you cannot cite one instance of taxing one's way to prosperity.  So you agree with me.  Good job Baldy.

Who do you think pays for all those treatments you get for your mental problems (that you have disclosed)?  The taxpayers do! 

Umm, treatment?  Who said I had undergone treatment?  There is no cost if there is no treatment dummy.

By your own reasoning and admission, you are insulting a mentally disabled person and losing.  What does that make you?

Making sure that some of the wealthiest among us at least pay more than 14% of their earnings is NOT unreasonable. 

Arguing with you about what is reasonable is like getting a compromise from Barack Obama.  Pointless.

It is always of interest when the most needy *you*...fight for something against your own interests...  I have yet to read any of your reasoning, aside from silly one-liners.     

I am glad you haven't read any of my reasoning.  You have the better end of the deal.  I have read all of your reasoning and I want that time back.

You can look on the bright side, the IRS has been getting cut as of late...it is an imperfect but necessary department.   


http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/irs-budget-cuts-113651.html


Fathertime!

A record year for taxes collected

[lordtiberius]

Well they certainly screwed up with that stunt they probably pulled against the tea party groups.

 

Ok.  So I admit.  He is not completely stupid, just mostly stupid.

Aside from that, somebody has to enforce the tax laws and if they don't have the money to do it, then more people figure that out and roll the dice. 

You don't have to enforce or obey unjust laws.

The amount of phony returns/refunds is disturbing, because that is enriching organized thieves at all the other taxpayer's expense.  If you don't mind my asking, how do you mean 'reined in'? 


Fathertime!

You mean like these guys?

[LiveFromUkraine]

Well they certainly screwed up with that stunt they probably pulled against the tea party groups.  Aside from that, somebody has to enforce the tax laws and if they don't have the money to do it, then more people figure that out and roll the dice.  The amount of phony returns/refunds is disturbing, because that is enriching organized thieves at all the other taxpayer's expense.  If you don't mind my asking, how do you mean 'reined in'? 


Fathertime!

I personally think they are getting exactly what they should be getting. 


We got the tea party, the emails that were supposedly deleted, the over spending stories popping up over and over again, and I just briefly read a story about how they gave out billions in child tax credits to the wrong people.


Hell, I remember a story that popped up about the IRS seizing bank accounts that trigger some money laundering flags and they wouldn't give the money back after they found out it wasn't money laundering.  The IRS only wanted to give them some of the money back.  Unbelievable.


 Now why should they be able to freeze that account and possibly bankrupt an innocent person without having proof?  Then have the audacity to not give the money back or try to keep some of it.


This is an out of control organization. A very powerful one at that.  They are acting as if they are not held accountable.  No organization should even think they are above accountability.

[fathertime]

So you cannot cite one instance of taxing one's way to prosperity.  So you agree with me.  Good job Baldy.
 

I am not a proponent of  'taxing to prosperity' so of course I did not provide an examples....that was strictly YOUR line.

Umm, treatment?  Who said I had undergone treatment?  There is no cost if there is no treatment dummy.

By your own reasoning and admission, you are insulting a mentally disabled person and losing.  What does that make you?

I don't know if you are 'mentally disabled'...I figured you just had a disorder of some sort based on all you have mumbled about yourself.  That is not to say I wouldn't go after your arguments either way, and give you no quarter, the same as you. 




That was a good chart you provided because under Obama this year we have to this point had a very good economy, as the stock market has been at an incredible level....we shall see what happens when/if the economy turns.  In addition we need to cut more *preferably military spending*, as we continue to run a large deficit...and that 18 trillion we owe is looming. 


Fathertime!   

[fathertime]

 


We got the tea party, the emails that were supposedly deleted, the over spending stories popping up over and over again, and I just briefly read a story about how they gave out billions in child tax credits to the wrong people.


Hell, I remember a story that popped up about the IRS seizing bank accounts that trigger some money laundering flags and they wouldn't give the money back after they found out it wasn't money laundering.  The IRS only wanted to give them some of the money back.  Unbelievable.


Now why should they be able to freeze that account and possibly bankrupt an innocent person without having proof?  Then have the audacity to not give the money back or try to keep some of it.


This is an out of control organization. A very powerful one at that.  They are acting as if they are not held accountable.  No organization should even think they are above accountability.

I do have to agree with those points...I forgot about that case regarding them seizing those accts incorrectly.  Generally it does bother me that our govt. has pressured other govts. to open up their books of our citizens.  Although if the very wealthy are hiding their income and avoiding taxation altogether I don't want that to continue.  I realize there will be some mistakes along the way, since none of these giant bureaucracies is perfect. 


Fathertime! 

[LiveFromUkraine]

I do have to agree with those points...I forgot about that case regarding them seizing those accts incorrectly.  Generally it does bother me that our govt. has pressured other govts. to open up their books of our citizens.  Although if the very wealthy are hiding their income and avoiding taxation altogether I don't want that to continue.  I realize there will be some mistakes along the way, since none of these giant bureaucracies is perfect. 


Fathertime!

I hear ya, a lot of that bothers me also.



The problem is these mistakes can bankrupt people to the point they won't be able to bounce back.  As a small business owner, it's easy to imagine waking up and instantly being bankrupt simply because the IRS has seized my account because of some imaginary money laundering flag. 


Cashflow is your life blood.


I would prefer some people to get away with avoiding taxes if it meant less innocent people would be negatively affected by their overly aggressive seize and figure it out later tactics. 


I don't see them as serving us, I see them as policing us now.   I guess we could say the same for Congress and the White House.

[lordtiberius]

I am not a proponent of  'taxing to prosperity' so of course I did not provide an examples....that was strictly YOUR line.





I don't know if you are 'mentally disabled'...I figured you just had a disorder of some sort based on all you have mumbled about yourself.  That is not to say I wouldn't go after your arguments either way, and give you no quarter, the same as you. 




That was a good chart you provided because under Obama this year we have to this point had a very good economy, as the stock market has been at an incredible level....we shall see what happens when/if the economy turns.  In addition we need to cut more *preferably military spending*, as we continue to run a large deficit...and that 18 trillion we owe is looming. 


Fathertime!

In the words of FP, you got nothing.  You are about as effective in substantiating your points as the GOP Senate under McConnell.  You bounce around from topic to topic like Bill Clinton at a NAMBLA fundraiser.  Still funnier than BBT

[fathertime]

In the words of FP, you got nothing.  You are about as effective in substantiating your points as the GOP Senate under McConnell.  You bounce around from topic to topic like Bill Clinton at a NAMBLA fundraiser.  Still funnier than BBT

Apparently my opinions have something as you feel the need to not only reply but to go off topic and name call each time!  I'd rather discuss the issue myself, but it is an interesting study watching you fall apart, almost every time.  [size=78%]  [/size]


Fathertime! 

[lordtiberius]

Hi Kettle!

I made my point.  My point is that minimum wage laws always hurt the poor as do income taxes.  Oligarchs like Zuckerburg, Obama, Buffet, Koch's, don't pay taxes, yet you want go after the Romney's who LEGALLY pay less than most people.  You protest because I have flavored my argument with humor, something you are a failure at.

[Gylden]

Just out of curiosity, I don't understand what all the beef of minimum wage is. What sort of a threat is it to society that working people are able to earn a wage that they are able to be self sufficient and not require any entitlements?
Maybe the minimum wage should be quite a bit higher and if people don't agree then they can cut their own grass and make their own hamburgers.

[lordtiberius]

Only 10% of minimum wage earners are who you describe.  Raising the minimum wage hurts workers by further limiting the number of jobs available.  No one is forcing these people at gun point to work.  Stuff we already covered up thread.