Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Experienced => Topic started by: Maxx2 on December 21, 2010, 09:40:44 PM

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 21, 2010, 09:40:44 PM

An Ukrainian ex-wife comes to the defense of her former husband.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2YMuyNjIYQ&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbmmg29Ojbc&feature=related[/youtube]

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLcG53DYxI4&feature=related[/youtube]
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Steamer on December 21, 2010, 11:05:45 PM
I feel sorry for the guy but he let this happen to himself. Love and lonliness can make you blind to what's happening to you until it's too late. He actually got off easy. This could have turned out much worse.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JR on December 22, 2010, 11:01:45 AM
This should be mada a sticky thread
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: ML on December 22, 2010, 11:14:15 AM
I got very sick watching the three clips.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: ECOCKS on December 22, 2010, 11:27:45 AM
The guy dug a hole, jumped in headfirst and suffered the consequences. I agree with JR that this should be made a sticky and is good background knowledge about the importance of building a real relationship, using lawyers properly, protecting oneself and being aware od how the VAWA can be utilized by immigrant women.

Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Daveman on December 22, 2010, 11:42:18 AM
I agree this should be a sticky...

But of course, every guy always thinks his situation is always "different". 

The guy dug a hole, jumped in headfirst and suffered the consequences. I agree with JR that this should be made a sticky and is good background knowledge about the importance of building a real relationship, using lawyers properly, protecting oneself and being aware od how the VAWA can be utilized by immigrant women.

Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 12:46:50 PM
I know many details of this case. I filmed it.

Yes most guys look at why their situations are different and then convince themselves that they are in the clear. But really is that the best way to look at? Isn't there a saying that goes something like this,

"The average person learns from his mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

Of course it is important not to make oneself paranoid that all foreign women are this way.

Avi is an intelligent man. He is a highly educated electrical engineer. He spoke her language. He traveled to see her three times before bringing her over on a fiancee visa. Yet he was naive as many men are with long term former marriages. He couldn't imagine that while he was visiting her and applying for her visa that she was making arrangements over the internet to be with another man. I was told that she met with this man the second day after her arrival. It was in the boyfriends e-mails that his wife Zoya and her daughter discovered. After this is when Zoya confronted him as shown in the movie. Who could imagine such goings on were happening? Avi standing there at the airport with flowers waiting for his wife while she and her lover were coming back from a romantic holiday that he paid for. It wasn't until Avi contacted Zoya the wife of the boyfriend about what his wife and her husband were doing that she filled him in on the details that she knew about months earlier.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 01:28:56 PM
Ecocks
Quote
Incidentally, I liked the woman's body language with the boyfriend and the way she looked while he was kissing her in front of that elevator. Any bets on how long that relationship will last?

Avi didn't give it much of a chance although IMO they did seem like a good match somewhat like Bonny and Clyde.

About the body language. Upon close examination of the detective's footage it seems the boyfriend was feigning kissing her on the neck and was instead telling her they were being filmed. That is why she stiffened up and looked straight at the camera.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 22, 2010, 01:41:08 PM
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guy without any accent were not dubbed? Is their Russian accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?

After that, do you really think that accent does not matter? :)

On a serious note, yes, this is an illustration of marriage fraud and false abuse filing in order to receive a green card independently from the husband's actions. Great filming job, Maxx2  8) You made it so good that the movies can almost be a manual on how to fabricate a false abuse case  ::) , with the laws even quoted on the screen.

My first thoughts when I started watching were, besides my initial paragraph, were that here we see a man who is fluent in Russian language and was brought up in Russian culture. Therefore, being fluent in Russian and familiar with the culture would hardly help in protecting against dishonest people like Yelena. All participants of the story are from the FSU, as it seems to be. It is not enough to know the language and to be able to communicate with the woman.

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 02:07:24 PM
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guys without any accent were not dubbed? Is their accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?

After that, do you really think that accent does not matter?
It does, though all the participants' English is very well understandable.
I guess, it depends on the author.

I didn't understand the detail with $250,000. How was he risking it?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 02:08:09 PM
Now can someone tell me why the words of the first two speakers in the videos were simultaneously shown on the screen, while the words of the younger guys without any accent were not dubbed? Is their accent so strong that Americans would not be able to understand what they were saying?

After that, do you really think that accent does not matter?

I edited that film. I was my opinion that some people would have difficulty understanding Avi as Avi had a tendency to slur his words and drop his sentences. He tended to sputter. Avi's ex-wife's accent seemed less of a problem for people to understand from the people that have watched the film. Same for the Russian attorney. Zoya was very difficult to edit. Her command of English was very poor. Many of the things she was trying to say I could not find a clear way to edit into the film so I left them out. I put subtitles with her so that those with problems understanding accents (I don't) can follow what she said. Of course when Zoya had to resort to Russian because she could not express herself with English I added the translation.

The problem I found with this film is that many people have a difficult time following who is who. I believe this is because we have a tendency not to pay close attention at the start of a film. We wait until the story grabs us, if it does, to closely listen what is being said. I have found out it usually takes a second viewing to get the details. It is a fairly complicated story.

Avi was a real good sport. He was being treated for cancer with a chemo therapy pump attached to his body yet did not mind doing all the different shots.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 02:15:43 PM
It does, though all the participants' English is very well understandable.
I guess, it depends on the author.

I didn't understand the detail with $250,000. How was he risking it?

I found it depends on the listener. Some people have trouble with understanding speech with accents. I was watching a film interview this morning of an American women. The interviewer was a Russian woman. I understood her questions quite well. The fellow I was watching it with had a difficult time understanding her though. She seemed clear to me. So it depends on the person. Who to subtitle and who to not is just a judgment thing.

The $250,000 was the amount she was suing him for. The lawsuit was on account of the abuse she claimed he did to her right before the police arrived. 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 02:19:53 PM
Quote
The $250,000 was the amount she was suing him for. The lawsuit was on account of the abuse she claimed he did to her right before the police arrived.

Was it a joint account?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 02:32:49 PM

Was it a joint account?

No, he had a retirement account that he had been contributing into over the years.

He had a pre-nuptial agreement that limited her to $1000 or $2000 a month (something like that) and the use of his apartment. She tried to get this overturned and get more money. But when the judge found out all that was going on he not only did not give her more money but he ended what money she was getting and told her she had to leave the apartment. She lost. That was when she sued him in another court about the supposed abuse. She wanted $250,000.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 02:45:27 PM
No, he had a retirement account that he had been contributing into over the years.

He had a pre-nuptial agreement that limited her to $1000 or $2000 a month (something like that) and the use of his apartment. She tried to get this overturned and get more money. But when the judge found out all that was going on he not only did not give her more money but he ended what money she was getting and told her she had to leave the apartment. She lost. That was when she sued him in another court about the supposed abuse. She wanted $250,000.
Were they divorced at this time? Prenups only start working after the divorce is final, I guess.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 22, 2010, 02:58:37 PM
Avi's former wife also received my attention as a protective person. To me, she is a good example of a decent woman who is on her man's side, albeit a former one.

My understanding would be that years ago, they immigrated together with Avi. Would that be right? How come that he lost her?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Jumper on December 22, 2010, 03:40:48 PM
Lily -
I think in one of the video's it relays thier story.. that they both immigrated together many years ago, were married for many years,but simply grew apart after 20 or 30 yerars of marriage? Yet remain friends/family.


Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 22, 2010, 05:25:58 PM
AJ, yes, the video tells that they married in 1973, then came to the US and divorced in 2003. The dark haired young man who was speaking in the beginning may be their son.

My question was because of their common immigration history, where they were supposed, and apparently did that in the earlier stage of immigration, to support each other in the immigration. That's why I asked, how come that they parted while they had a chance to develop even stronger ties than if they would stay in the home country?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 06:48:33 PM
She said they "fell apart", I guess it is "grew apart". Actually, they just don't say the truth. It can be anything, Lily.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 07:09:05 PM
Avi's former wife also received my attention as a protective person. To me, she is a good example of a decent woman who is on her man's side, albeit a former one.

My understanding would be that years ago, they immigrated together with Avi. Would that be right? How come that he lost her?

Thank you Lily. Ilana, Avi's first wife has made a strong impression on many others. I usually hear "Wow! what a woman!" and "Avi's ex-wife really impressed me". She is usually described as noble. Judging from the expressions on some peoples faces I get the impression that Ilana has disturbed their stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like. In my discussions with them about about marriage fraud I tell them that it is wrong to think all Russian women are this way. That many make good wives. Anyway Ilana makes a good impression.

Avi, Ilana and their two sons Alex (shown) and Ron came to America in the late eighties as Jewish immigrants. Avi opened up a grocery store for Russian foods. It was at this store that he met Michael who was to become years later the lover of his second wife. So Avi had know Michael for years. It was just by a coincidence that Michael found Avi's fiancee on the internet the same time Avi was in contact with her. In the e-mail exchanges Michael had with Yelena that was read by Zoya he said to Yelena "I know this Avi. Why are you going to marry him?" Yelena's responce was "How else am I going to get to America with two kids?" to which Michael said "Avi should be easy to fool". I asked Zoya why this was so and she told me that Avi was very "maki" kind. That he was a honest man.

Ilana and Avi grew apart as AJ said. Avi was busy all the time running his store (which later failed right before Yelena came) and Ilana I believed worked at a hospital or clinic. There she met a doctor. The marriage broke up "peacefully" as Avi called it. They even shared the same attorney. Ilana married the doctor and continued to remain friends with Avi. They were still family. This was around 2003. It was in 2004 that Avi desperate from loneliness found the internet site that lead him to his future ex-wife Yelena.

Yelena according to Avi was a sure bet. As he said to his son "If there is anyone (and he met several others) that loves me it has to be Yelena!!" Lots of passion when they were together and when they were not she told him that she missed him and would cry on the phone. When Avi told her about his business problems and this might delay her coming she told him she would take on work cleaning toilets to help. It didn't matter to her as long as they were together. That she would live on the ends of the earth to be with him.

Yet with all of Avi's problems Yelana had a few of her own. Suddenly she had a problem with her oldest son being kept in Azerbaijan on account of the draft. It would take money to make this problem go away. Also she developed sudden dental problems with lots of pain. Avi sent money. I seen the receipts. Around $7000 I recall. Later after she got here she needed to go back to Azerbaijan to get her youngest son and do some more dental work. This is when she asked for more money.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 07:56:43 PM

Quote
Suddenly she had a problem with her oldest son being kept in Azerbaijan on account of the draft. It would take money to make this problem go away. Also she developed sudden dental problems with lots of pain. Avi sent money. I seen the receipts. Around $7000 I recall. Later after she got here she needed to go back to Azerbaijan to get her youngest son and do some more dental work. This is when she asked for more money.
Nothing wrong with it.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 08:12:05 PM
Quote
judging from the expressions on some peoples faces I get the impression that Ilana has disturbed their stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like. 
What "some people" and what are these "stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like"?
Russian (BTW Ilana is not Russian))) woman are like what?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on December 22, 2010, 08:28:39 PM
Avi, Ilana and their two sons Alex (shown) and Ron came to America in the late eighties as Jewish immigrants....

Maxx-

Avi's first mistake was marry someone from Azerbaijan. Fun wedding ceremony that must have been...Azerbaijan is technically a Muslim nation. He's Jewish for chrissakes...

Also, Avi pointed at his forehead to describe the scratches on his ex-wife's neck and cheek...considering that alleged scratches were the reason why the police deemed she was telling the truth to cause for his arrest, one would think the location of the scratches will be heavily ingrained upon his memory, no?

Her attorney wanted to bargain for $1,000.00 plus a green card as leverage for a 'peaceful' divorce seem rather strange. At that point, IMHO, I would have paid the $1,000.00 and added monies to hire that silly attorney. They already filed the AOS, and very likely her conditional GC was well on the way. Removal of the condition do hinges on their marriage however things do happen that may be out of their control. That in itself, if given proper presentation may prove they did try to make the marriage work but just couldn't do it. Any good attorney certainly can make this case that such circmstances shouldn't be a cause of deportation. I know a couple who had this happen here in LA and they both hired an immigration attorney and was successful in helping her stay. To come out and say the marriage wasn't working out and be honest to DHS from the get-go (as opposed to staying married despite the fact just to earn the removal - which to me IS fraud) and try to find an amicable way to keep her status here was what they chose to do. They did, and took the chance and were both legitimately rewarded. There's no fraud in honestly giving a marriage a chance. Failing upon doing so doesn't make a marriage fraudulent.

Just saying....could it be that Avi was far too emotional to yield an ounce of sense, or, too controlling and lost sight of the fact that if he in fact wanted a 'peaceful' divorce, this was the very best opportunity for him to pursue? Was his definition of a 'peaceful' divorce was file the papers and deport the woman?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 22, 2010, 08:31:09 PM
Thanks for your clarifications Maxx2!

Albeit Ilana may be a good hearted and even noble woman, I would still call things by their names. In America, she left Avi for someone more attractive than her husband. :(  It happens to a number of immigrants who share a common language and culture. WM married to RW are also not protected from this loss when spouses from different cultures grow apart.

Is Michael, Zoya's husband and Yelena's lover, also Russian? I think he is. Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: tfcrew on December 22, 2010, 08:36:42 PM
Isn't there a saying that goes something like this.." The average person learns from his mistakes. A wise person learns from the mistakes of others."

Sayings are easy enough to say. Everyone makes mistakes. The foolish will repeat them.               
 

   
                         
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Boethius on December 22, 2010, 08:40:19 PM
Jews have lived in Azerbaijan for centuries, GQ.  Garry Kasparov's father was an Azeri Jew.  The "Muslim" countries of the FSU do not have the same problems with Jews as Arab countries do.

Quote
Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.

I know for a fact this is not correct.  Think of Prince Charles, as a prominent example.  Men leave attractive wives all the time.  We don't live with a body.

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 08:41:13 PM
Quote
Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.
That's not true! Come on- "only Russian man"!
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 22, 2010, 08:52:45 PM
Actually I agree with Lily- Ilana didn't disturb the stereotype as she left her husband for a "better man".
I am sure there were   some other reasons but Maxx is pushing Ivy's being busy with the store. So, "noble" Ilanda left her husband because of his work.
Not so?
I know what it is - I mean a very busy man, because I am married to one. I have to be "more noble" I guess.
Come on, people! She left him and this is what happened.
BTW, Yelena did same but with some "k-1 visa flavor".
I know, it is not nice to say that, but again- this is what happened 2 times to Ivy.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 09:05:48 PM
What "some people" and what are these "stereotypes of what they think Russian women are like"?
Russian (BTW Ilana is not Russian))) woman are like what?

Most Americans lump all FSU women together and do not differentiate between the countries. In their minds Romanian Nadia Comaneci is Russian. Most people do not give them much thought. When they search their memories to get an image of what Russian women are like they come up with Natasha of Rocky and Bullwinkle fame and the Russian girls of the James Bond movies. These are the enlightened ones. The rest think this
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ&feature=related[/youtube]

 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 09:20:07 PM

Is Michael, Zoya's husband and Yelena's lover, also Russian? I think he is. Only a Russian man would be able to leave an attractive, well groomed wife as Zoya is, for a person who is just younger than Zoya.



He sure is. Zoya is about ten years older than Michael. He and Yelena were about the same age. Early forties I believe. Avi and Zoya are about the same age. Early Mid to later fifties. Avi being the older. 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 22, 2010, 09:56:07 PM
Actually I agree with Lily- Ilana didn't disturb the stereotype as she left her husband for a "better man".
I am sure there were   some other reasons but Maxx is pushing Ivy's being busy with the store. So, "noble" Ilanda left her husband because of his work.
Not so?
I know what it is - I mean a very busy man, because I am married to one. I have to be "more noble" I guess.
Come on, people! She left him and this is what happened.
BTW, Yelena did same but with some "k-1 visa flavor".
I know, it is not nice to say that, but again- this is what happened 2 times to Ivy.

Many of the Americans that see this film describe Ilana as noble. These are their words. What would be her motive to come on camera like this? It takes guts.

Now Zoya might be a different matter. That is a woman scorned. I have no hard feelings toward her. I understand. According to Zoya he threw it into her face that she couldn't prove anything. She then hired the Russian detective when he went to visit his 83 year old sick father. You know the one who was going to the casino every day.

Marriages break up all the time. The difference is that with most of these breakups do not go like this

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/dv-29.gif)

That is there is the intention before the marriage to end it as soon as possible. That is to secure immigration status as soon as possible and then split. In other words not giving the marriage a chance but lining up another man/woman eventually to be with before stepping off the plane. A planned failure from the get go. There is a difference don't you think?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on December 22, 2010, 09:57:16 PM
so sad, too bad.  hope she gets hers.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: tfcrew on December 23, 2010, 03:23:11 AM
"Why get married? Just find someone you hate and buy them a house."

 Rodney Dangerfield
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 05:42:15 AM
Quote
What would be her motive to come on camera like this? It takes guts.
We can only guess. She did leave Avi for a "better man", didn't she? Ah, yes- there is a big difference between marriage of 30 years and just months. The result is same.
I am not justifying Yelena though.
Ilana is sure that Yelena is a gold digger and she herself is not.Then why  - "she just met a doctor"?   :-\
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 23, 2010, 06:28:05 AM
He sure is. Zoya is about ten years older than Michael. He and Yelena were about the same age. Early forties I believe. Avi and Zoya are about the same age. Early Mid to later fifties. Avi being the older. 

From this, we can see that age difference is not quite an issue when it comes to international marriages. Here we have mature people, Yelena in her early forties and Avi in his late fifties, and still a Green Card betrayal between people of same cultures.

So you ask us what do we think of that? I'd say the story is telling us that no maturity, no age differences, no common language and cultures can save anyone from abuse and betrayal. That's what it is about.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Faux Pas on December 23, 2010, 07:31:35 AM
We can only guess. She did leave Avi for a "better man", didn't she? Ah, yes- there is a big difference between marriage of 30 years and just months. The result is same.
I am not justifying Yelena though.
Ilana is sure that Yelena is a gold digger and she herself is not.Then why  - "she just met a doctor"?   :-\

How can you possibly know this? Depending on ones own moral fiber of course, from the information provided, Avi would be the much "better" man by a country mile. Yelena's other man is both a liar and adulterer. Avi is a victim of lies and deceit by both Yelena and her new man. You've gone over the top is trying to play the devils advocate here Doll.

Even though both of Avi's marriages ended in divorce thus have the same "end result", they are far from the same. His first marriage based on love (apparently) lasted 30 years and resulted in two children. By most accounts that can still be considered a successful marriage even though it ended. His second marriage was built on lies, deceit and outright fraud. Very few similarities there.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Daveman on December 23, 2010, 07:53:41 AM
Maxx2,
I'd like to address this issue from a slightly different angle.  Hopefully our readers here will avoid such situations by taking the time to build real relationships before marriage.

What are some of the warning signs you've noticed in your interviews?  The glaring one here for me was that this woman was so completely cold and distant from day one.  Avi seemed to make excuses for her behavior at the time (though he didn't actually say much about it).

What are some others which may be more subtle?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 08:22:40 AM
Quote
How can you possibly know this?
What do you mean- how? She said it herself, then Maxx added that Avi " was always busy with his store". BTW, the store " was going south" at this time, so put 2 and 2 together.
Ah, we still are the family"! Sure. Ilana is married to a doctor. 8) Avi was desperately lonely, he just wanted to be with somebody. He said it himself.

Quote
Avi would be the much "better" man by a country mile. 
Yet, his first wife left him. Not so? His business was failing, he was completely lonely.
Now she is defending him.
I do feel bad for Avi, but I can see why Ilana "had guts" to come to the camera.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 08:25:02 AM
Quote
Avi is a victim of lies and deceit by both Yelena and her new man. You've gone over the top is trying to play the devils advocate here Doll.
Not at all. I agree Avi had a bad luck, and Yelena and her bf are immoral.
I just made a remark about Ilana.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Daveman on December 23, 2010, 08:29:43 AM
Not at all. I agree Avi had a bad luck, and Yelena and her bf are immoral.
I just made a remark about Ilana.

And it's a valid observation. Ilana may very well have been devoted until the ship began to sink. Entirely possible she traded up.  It's also possible that Avi came home and brought the stresses of the business to his wife and took it out on her, which is something that she may be above discussing.  There's a considerable amount of space between the lines of this synopsis for interpretive reading. 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 08:31:54 AM
Just out of curiosity- how was this $250,000 in the picture? Unless it was their joint account which I doubt.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 08:40:57 AM
And it's a valid observation. Ilana may very well have been devoted until the ship began to sink. Entirely possible she traded up.  It's also possible that Avi came home and brought the stresses of the business to his wife and took it out on her, which is something that she may be above discussing.  There's a considerable amount of space between the lines of this synopsis for interpretive reading.  
Yes, this is what I read "between the lines". Business like this doesn't fail over night- it takes time, and Ilana definitely saw it coming. Though anything could happen.
I know the families where the wives just got tired of being "home alone", so they left.
It does happen, but then don't come to the camera with this tearing story.
This is what caught my eye, Lily's too.
I do understand that the goal was to show how nice Avi was, but please- Ilana is noble?
Noble wives do not trade their husbands (in most cases). What I see- is how she hates this K-1 stuff. Did you hear what she said about RW on fiancee visa versus Mexican aliens?
This is what was the focus of her  defending after "Avi is not abusive" . It is a very "sensitive material"  8)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Faux Pas on December 23, 2010, 08:56:24 AM
What do you mean- how? She said it herself, then Maxx added that Avi " was always busy with his store". BTW, the store " was going south" at this time, so put 2 and 2 together.
Ah, we still are the family"! Sure. Ilana is married to a doctor. 8) Avi was desperately lonely, he just wanted to be with somebody. He said it himself.
Yet, his first wife left him. Not so? His business was failing, he was completely lonely.
Now she is defending him.
I do feel bad for Avi, but I can see why Ilana "had guts" to come to the camera.

Well, let's turn the table for a moment. If you left your husband right now after 9 years of marriage, is the marriage a failure? Ilana said for a number of years her and Avi were more like relatives than husband and wife.

I'm a bit dumbfounded here Doll of why you wish to deflect the crux of the issue which is Yelena's deceit onto Ilana as if she contributed to it. You are wayy the hell "out there" on that one.  :D

Avi and Ilana's divorce or the reasons for it is not what causes Yelena's deceit
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 09:00:08 AM
Bottom line- it was a bad luck. I personally don't see how he could detect the red flags. Yelena is a good actress, I believe.

BTW, I remember the story on "Russian Women Abroad" when a woman was looking for a man in the same place where he daughter lived- just to be close to her. The woman was hunting only men from that area and she succeeded. She married him on K-1 visa, then left him 1 or 2 years ago. I don't think she wanted to leave like that, but it did happen.
Same case- she used the man. No DVC though.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 09:07:49 AM
Faux Pas, I don't know about my marriage if the divorce happens. Can't think of myself :D


I am not defending Yelena and her BF, I am just commenting Maxx's words about Ilanda.
What happened to Avi is terrible.
Just a question- why did he apply to Immigration Service so many times? Ok, fraud is bad, but how could it help him? I am not sure how it works.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Faux Pas on December 23, 2010, 09:09:04 AM
Bottom line- it was a bad luck. I personally don't see how he could detect the red flags. Yelena is a good actress, I believe.

BTW, I remember the story on "Russian Women Abroad" when a woman was looking for a man in the same place where he daughter lived- just to be close to her. The woman was hunting only men from that area and she succeeded. She married him on K-1 visa, then left him 1 or 2 years ago. I don't think she wanted to leave like that, but it did happen.
Same case- she used the man. No DVC though.

Avi created most of his own bad luck here, no doubt. However, this doesn't allow Yelena off the hook. She is a deceitful liar and a thief. Avi is only guilty of being horny and stupid.  ;)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 09:10:50 AM
Quote
Avi and Ilana's divorce or the reasons for it is not what causes Yelena's deceit
No.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 09:14:44 AM
Avi created most of his own bad luck here, no doubt. However, this doesn't allow Yelena off the hook. She is a deceitful liar and a thief. Avi is only guilty of being horny and stupid.  ;)
I agree, yet I don't know if he could see anything wrong.
I myself asked money for my older son's military service, also J. sent me money for   some hospital stuff. It was less than $7,000 but close. What else could be the "signs"? Nothing.
It was a bad luck.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Faux Pas on December 23, 2010, 09:20:45 AM
Faux Pas, I don't know about my marriage if the divorce happens. Can't think of myself :D


I am not defending Yelena and her BF, I am just commenting Maxx's words about Ilanda.
What happened to Avi is terrible.
Just a question- why did he apply to Immigration Service so many times? Ok, fraud is bad, but how could it help him? I am not sure how it works.

Borne out of frustration I suppose and lack of identifying where his solutions are if they exist at all. The sad fact is, AM in this pursuit, once they marry the foreign  woman are for all intent and purposes, out of the picture except for the AOS as far as USCIS are concerned. USCIS couldn't care less about fraud on Yelena's part. They possess the AOS and other documents Avi submitted with the K-1 that Yelena was not involved in fraud. At that point, it is a long row to hoe for the AM to prove fraud as far as USCIS is concerned.

Ilana's only purpose in the film (IMO) is to show that while Avi is a decent, good and educated fellow, that perhaps he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. She still has a degree of concern for her ex-husband and the father of her children
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 09:33:22 AM
I agree.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JR on December 23, 2010, 09:37:46 AM
Here's my take on the entire situation: If you find yourself in the same or simular position, "GIVE HER THE DAMN GREEN CARD!!!" In the end it would have cost far less and in terms of finances and grief. As I recall Avi lost his job, apartment, investigative costs and attornies fees. In addition to that he had to suffer arrest and jail. How sad, all because he refused to give her a green card.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: ECOCKS on December 23, 2010, 09:54:13 AM
I found Ilana to come across (present) as a woman who was married for 30 years and fell out of love with her husband. Nothing deceitful, it just happened. 30 years, 2 children, built a business, had a home...seems pretty normal and a story which plays out every day. If her marriage had deteriorated to the point where they were merely friendly roommates (been there done that) then there is nothing inherently wrong with falling in love with a doctor (who BTW was probably himself divorced after a moderately long-term marriage - but that's merely speculation based upon age).

That seems very different from a woman like Yelena who was scheming from the start to use the guy as her GC mule to get to the US.

Watching Yelena's face in the covert hotel lobby pictures, I sincerely doubt she loves the new guy either. He is merely a means to an end or an asset to be played until no longer useful, albeit with some possibly enjoyable head-banging sex along the way to make the time pass more quickly.

Avi was "desperately lonely" (been there and done that gig too) and fell prey into a trap. Over-confidently (perhaps thinking because he himself was Russian) that he would never be in the situation of getting scammed (based upon the recurring theme that "if anyone loved me it was her" which was repeated a couple of times.

The real takeaway here should be a lesson for all the guys who come here protesting how much in love they are and that they can do this in 2-3 trips (usually while assuring us that despite doing this on the cheap they are not compromising quality) are taking far more risk than they dream. If Avi, himself a product of the Russian culture could be taken in and fooled, consider carefully how clearly your brain is functioning in analyzing the signals and reading the gal.

Keep the spidey-sense turned on and concentrate on protecting yourself while trying to find happiness and enjoying the love of the right woman.

If it was easy, anyone could do it.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on December 23, 2010, 10:22:26 AM
Quote from: Boethius
Jews have lived in Azerbaijan for centuries, GQ. Garry Kasparov's father was an Azeri Jew. The "Muslim" countries of the FSU do not have the same problems with Jews as Arab countries do.

I understand that Boethius. The remark was more tongue in cheek. The Soviet were religiously oppressive and thus people's religion became almost irrelevant. So yes FSU folks' mentality with cross-religion union likely have far less significance than in the US or even the western hemisphere. However, it didn't escaped my wife's amusement after I mentioned this case with her, knowing what she knows how these things are looked upon today and here...an ex-boyfried of hers is Muslim.

Quote from: Lily
So you ask us what do we think of that? I'd say the story is telling us that no maturity, no age differences, no common language and cultures can save anyone from abuse and betrayal. That's what it is about.

Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.

A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.

The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JohnDearGreen on December 23, 2010, 10:26:29 AM
Bottom line- it was a bad luck. I personally don't see how he could detect the red flags. Yelena is a good actress, I believe.
Only red flags were that she had motives for getting herself and her 2 sons out of the country.  That was probable driving force for her actions.   Her 2 men partners were just stepping stones for her goals.  The AM always needs to analyze the goals of the RW's children and their future interests.   She was not great looking and with 2 older sons, she could fall in the "desperate" category.  Opportunities for her and her family would be better here.

Avi's first wife appears to be quite attractive and maybe out of Avi's league, which may be why their marriage slowly fizzled out.   I see no problem with her marrying a doctor.  Avi is a nice guy but maybe not a ladies man.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Steamer on December 23, 2010, 10:27:13 AM
Just a question- why did he apply to Immigration Service so many times? Ok, fraud is bad, but how could it help him? I am not sure how it works.

Yelena hurt him so he wanted to hurt her. When he tried to report the fraud, the INS didn't care and then hurt turned into frustration. Sometimes you just have to let go.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JR on December 23, 2010, 10:32:44 AM

Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.

A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.

The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.

Amen...
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 23, 2010, 11:42:24 AM
Sorry folks my internet crashed last night and I lost a rather lengthy post I had written in responce to GQ's. post.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Daveman on December 23, 2010, 12:36:15 PM
I agree, yet I don't know if he could see anything wrong.
I myself asked money for my older son's military service, also J. sent me money for   some hospital stuff. It was less than $7,000 but close. What else could be the "signs"? Nothing.
It was a bad luck.

Yes, money is not an issue inside a relationship (I mean the giving, not problems caused by a lack thereof)... but, Doll, did you refuse to eat with your husband, or avoid him on a daily basis?  I think that is an enormous warning indicator of things to come and one that anyone should have been able to see. 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 23, 2010, 01:41:50 PM
Maxx-

1) Avi's first mistake was marry someone from Azerbaijan. Fun wedding ceremony that must have been...Azerbaijan is technically a Muslim nation. He's Jewish for chrissakes...

2) Also, Avi pointed at his forehead to describe the scratches on his ex-wife's neck and cheek...considering that alleged scratches were the reason why the police deemed she was telling the truth to cause for his arrest, one would think the location of the scratches will be heavily ingrained upon his memory, no?

Her attorney wanted to bargain for $1,000.00 plus a green card as leverage for a 'peaceful' divorce seem rather strange. At that point, IMHO, I would have paid the $1,000.00 and added monies to hire that silly attorney. They already filed the AOS, and very likely her conditional GC was well on the way. Removal of the condition do hinges on their marriage however things do happen that may be out of their control. That in itself, if given proper presentation may prove they did try to make the marriage work but just couldn't do it. Any good attorney certainly can make this case that such circmstances shouldn't be a cause of deportation. I know a couple who had this happen here in LA and they both hired an immigration attorney and was successful in helping her stay. To come out and say the marriage wasn't working out and be honest to DHS from the get-go (as opposed to staying married despite the fact just to earn the removal - which to me IS fraud) and try to find an amicable way to keep her status here was what they chose to do. They did, and took the chance and were both legitimately rewarded. There's no fraud in honestly giving a marriage a chance. Failing upon doing so doesn't make a marriage fraudulent.

3) Just saying....could it be that Avi was far too emotional to yield an ounce of sense, or, too controlling and lost sight of the fact that if he in fact wanted a 'peaceful' divorce, this was the very best opportunity for him to pursue? Was his definition of a 'peaceful' divorce was file the papers and deport the woman?

1) The Azerbaijani factor  I can't be certain but I do not think she is Muslim. I seen some photos of her she had sent to Avi and she was wearing a mini skirt with a leopard print top at a cafe in Azerbaijan. Would this indicate that she was not a devote Muslim? Or not one at all? I think I read elsewhere after the above quote that this comment was said in jest.

In my file footage of Avi's interviews (there were several) I had asked him what mistakes he had made in his approach in finding a wife over the internet. He looked a bit taken back as if it was something he hadn't given any thought to. He said he made the mistake in considering a woman from one of the lower countries. That these countries were known for their criminality. "They walk on the corpses to get what they want" was his words, whereas that "Russian women are good" meaning safe.

GQ, I think you mentioned that Nat had a reaction when you mentioned Avi and his troubles with a Azerbaijani wife. If she doesn't mind could you fill us more in on her thoughts? Anyone else?

2) Brain scatter, ramblings and Russian problems with gender identification If you notice at 2:44 of the second clip Ilana says "he cheated on him". You have to listen close. I noticed Avi saying in clips (that I didn't use) his getting the right gender wrong with his "he's" and "her's". I noticed this with Zoya as well. I asked a Russian woman I know about this and she said this mistake was common with Russians. Is this true? Have you noticed this?

I spent dozens of hours talking with Avi and hundreds of hours editing his interviews. I have spent so much time thinking about this case. I noticed that Avi would have episodes of what I call brain scatter. There were times he would suddenly not focus on what he was trying to communicate but would say whatever would pop up into his mind. He would go off on tangents filling me on all kinds of unimportant details. He would get excited. It was a real edit job to get this story told. Frankly I think Avi was suffering from Traumatic Stress Disorder. I wouldn't call it Post T.S.D. as when I filmed his story it was still an on going issue. So when he pointed to his forehead and then lowered his finger to his neck and said "she had scratches on her cheeks" I think he may have had a picture of her in his mind of her hair mussed up on her forehead. Remember she was an actress and looking the part of an abused woman would involved doing something about a neatly coiffed hairdo. Most FSU women take pride in their appearance and do not look slovenly with messed up hair. Remember she went into another room with her 18 year old son who had called the police. The son who wanted desperately for his mother to leave with him into that other room before the police arrived.

3) Pride verses Practicality of cutting a deal Avi wasn't alone in making his decision to try and deny her a green card. He had talks about what was going on with Ilana, their two sons, Elizabeth the attorney and later Zoya. All were of the opinion Yelena did not deserve a green card. That Avi should not lift a finger to help her get one. The attention was to get Avi a good divorce outcome as far as spousal maintenance and have her give up her prenuptial agreement right to live in Avi's apartment. Doing this in exchange for pretending they were still living together was not going to be in the cards.

Remember in the video he says "rarely was she at the apartment (she was living with Michael at that time) but she had her things here to show she was still living here". According to Avi this was so she could claim she was still living with Avi in case the USCIS made a surprise visit.

Avi thought she was not in the position to bargain and neither did any of his advisors. He had detectives footage that showed that Yelena was spending the nights with Michael. The footage showed the detective putting a clip on the tires of Michael's Lexus tire and on the apartment door with filmed time coded footage of her and him going into the apartment and not leaving until the next morning. This is what it takes in Maryland (or maybe it was Virginia).

Also keep in mind as far as green card bargaining goes. Avi's male pride was offended. It is not hard to imagine all the reasons why. Also there was something else. According to Avi Yelena had insulted his family. Made fun of his youngest son who was suffering from health problems (Very mentally bright. No problem there). She had made allegations that Avi and Zoya were having an affair. Something that amused Zoya as preposterous and irritated Avi when I interviewed them. The best word to describe it all was the audacity of the idea of giving her a green card after all if that. Besides it was against the law.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 23, 2010, 03:01:56 PM
Yes, money is not an issue inside a relationship (I mean the giving, not problems caused by a lack thereof)... but, Doll, did you refuse to eat with your husband, or avoid him on a daily basis?  I think that is an enormous warning indicator of things to come and one that anyone should have been able to see. 

The cold treatment did not come until after Avi married her and filed all of her immigration documents. In case some wise guy reading this thinks "Well I just won't file my fiancee's documents" it doesn't work if she claims to be abused. Controlling her by not filing documents is looked upon by the courts and the USCIS for what it is, control and abuse.

Dave, you asked me up thread if there were any red flags with Yelena. As Doll pointed out asking for a big amount of money right before they come is not one of them... although it might be... Frankly red flags may not be red at all but just look that way to those on the alert for them. This issue cause quite a lot of turmoil with the Russian ladies from another board. I remember really catching hell with my "Red flags of a Green Card Girl" thread. No explanation by me of "false positives" would suffice.  But I will give it a try anyway.

Avi's Yelena had left her youngest son back in Azerbaijan. I believe he was about 7 years old. Avi had already gotten a K-2 visa for him. She had left him behind so she could first scout out the home Avi had prepared for her. She was being cautious and told Avi this was the reason. Soon after she put pressure on Avi to give her a very favorable prenuptial agreement. Avi told me that she would cry and carry on about what would happen to her and her children if for some reason their marriage broke up. How would they live? Where would they live? So Avi found a Russian woman attorney, Elizabeth and requested to her that she make the terms that were best for Yelena's interests. Which Elizabeth did. Once that was done this cautious woman requesting they get married right away. Soon after that file the affidavit of support and adjustment of status. Then the deep freeze came.

I have seen cases where the standard operating procedure is;
1) Get married ASAP
2) File all immigration documents
3) Then go on honeymoon

I remember Gary's wife Elena had Gary stop at the service center to file the adjustment of status right after they were married. Honeymoon came later.

Other red flags are and I know I have got to be careful with those, is not caring about the wedding ceremony, how the groom is dressed, avoiding churches (I know you have to use ZAGS in Russia to make it official), taking photos only for USCIS requirements and not any for  friends and family, forgeting birthdays of the USC spouse and anniversaries, lengthy phone calls to immigration savvy "friends" and the word "document" said over and over again, sudden emergency trips for reasons that are difficult to check and not doing anything that indicates plans for a long term life together. An example of the last one would not caring if the husband learned your language even if he asked. Again any of these red flags may have an alternative explanation other than marriage fraud. 

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on December 23, 2010, 03:12:21 PM
Yes, this is what I read "between the lines". Business like this doesn't fail over night- it takes time, and Ilana definitely saw it coming. Though anything could happen.
I know the families where the wives just got tired of being "home alone", so they left.
It does happen, but then don't come to the camera with this tearing story.
This is what caught my eye, Lily's too.
I do understand that the goal was to show how nice Avi was, but please- Ilana is noble?
Noble wives do not trade their husbands (in most cases). What I see- is how she hates this K-1 stuff. Did you hear what she said about RW on fiancee visa versus Mexican aliens?
This is what was the focus of her  defending after "Avi is not abusive" . It is a very "sensitive material"  8)

Doll, you need to go back and watch the videos more closely.  it was not Ilana who compared RW on fiance visa to Mexican illegal aliens, it was Avi.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on December 23, 2010, 03:18:57 PM
Here's my take on the entire situation: If you find yourself in the same or simular position, "GIVE HER THE DAMN GREEN CARD!!!" In the end it would have cost far less and in terms of finances and grief. As I recall Avi lost his job, apartment, investigative costs and attornies fees. In addition to that he had to suffer arrest and jail. How sad, all because he refused to give her a green card.

so, with that logic, just give a wanna be carjacker your keys (okay if he is armed before you are maybe you should, maybe that is not the best comparison).

the point is, criminals should not be rewarded.  Yelena should be sent to jail for one year for blatently commiting immigration fraud, and than deported back to Azer.  US politicians need to stop being spineless and enforce the law.  only if criminals like Yelena are prosecuted and deported, will other potential future criminals like her be discouraged to break our laws.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on December 23, 2010, 03:30:20 PM
I understand that Boethius. The remark was more tongue in cheek. The Soviet were religiously oppressive and thus people's religion became almost irrelevant. So yes FSU folks' mentality with cross-religion union likely have far less significance than in the US or even the western hemisphere. However, it didn't escaped my wife's amusement after I mentioned this case with her, knowing what she knows how these things are looked upon today and here...an ex-boyfried of hers is Muslim.

Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.

A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.

The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.

GQ,

essentially you are arguing that because Avi was lonely and desperate, and/or not a good catch, that Yelena was justified in her actions of commiting immigration fraud.  in fact you go beyond even that, implying that Yelena had to wake up from her "nightmare", and that Avi was probably "controlling".  you ignore the overwhelming evidence that Yelena intended to commit immigration fraud from the beginning, and did so.  but she was not happy to do just that, she also had to falsely accuse him of domestic violence, to satisfy her enormous ego about her own self importance.  the fact that you would take her point of view in this debacle is pathetic.  why do you think that criminals should be rewarded??  do you think that we have laws on the books only to be defiled and spit upon?? 

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 23, 2010, 03:37:11 PM
GQ,

essentially you are arguing that because Avi was lonely and desperate, and/or not a good catch, that Yelena was justified in her actions of commiting immigration fraud.  in fact you go beyond even that, implying that Yelena had to wake up from her "nightmare", and that Avi was probably "controlling".  you ignore the overwhelming evidence that Yelena intended to commit immigration fraud from the beginning, and did so.  but she was not happy to do just that, she also had to falsely accuse him of domestic violence, to satisfy her enormous ego about her own self importance.  the fact that you would take her point of view in this debacle is pathetic.  why do you think that criminals should be rewarded??  do you think that we have laws on the books only to be defiled and spit upon??  



I didn't take it that GQ was arguing this at all. What he was saying is there is consequences for not being in the right condition mentally, emotionally and financially to do this process. That what happens to some men is that they turn into controlling monsters. They become cavemen defending their cave. I would quickly add that not all men are like this. Some know when it is time to let it go. They believe in flight rather than fight. Make sense? GQ? Rubicon?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on December 23, 2010, 03:38:54 PM
Sorry folks my internet crashed last night and I lost a rather lengthy post I had written in responce to GQ's. post.

Hi Maxx2,

is anything being done to change this current situation which allows women to commit immigration fraud and get away with it??  just what specifically are the current laws, and why are they not being enforced??  are you or anyone else trying to change the laws in order to prevent future fraud from occuring?

did Yelena win any monies in her suit against Avi for 250K??  or did a judge also hopefully dismiss her lawsuit??

the stress of this situation, and I think the stress of cancer, shows on Avi's face.  it's very sad that "nice guys finish last".  Yelena knew that Avi was "maki"  a nice guy, and in her evilness did what she could to take advantage of him and now she seeks to profit from her actions further... a very sad story.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on December 23, 2010, 03:45:33 PM
I didn't take it that GQ was arguing this at all. What he was saying is there is consequences for not being in the right condition mentally, emotionally and financially to do this process.

respectfully, I disagree with you.  re-read GQ's quote.  he implies that Avi was seeking a traditional (GQ's opinion that in a traditional marriage women are submissive, is not the point at all in the first place, and in the second place it is just his opinion.  there are many different types of marriage.  in a traditional marriage, a husband is "submissive" to his wife by supporting her financially, while she might be "submissive" to him by taking care of the home and cooking--not all AW are against traditional marriages, in fact traditional marriages are probably still a majority)  "submissive" wife, and that he was "controlling".  he states that she had to wake up from her "nightmare".  he does not hold her accountable in any way shape or form.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on December 23, 2010, 03:59:19 PM
Thanks for the fairly long response Maxx. I will make a special note of the civility I found your post to be in...that’s a very good sign, Maxx.

Quote
GQ, I think you mentioned that Nat had a reaction when you mentioned Avi and his troubles with a Azerbaijani wife. If she doesn't mind could you fill us more in on her thoughts?
Her reaction was solely isolated in the religion aspect of what I mentioned. She have more than a few friends in Novosibirsk who are Muslims. Mostly from Azerbaijan. She was born in Uzbekistan, moved and grew up in Tarjikistan before her family settled in Novo.

Quote
2) Brain scatter, ramblings and Russian problems with gender identification

I notice this quite a bit from newly arrived immigrants in their first years here, including myself and Naty, and many others not solely from FSU.

Quote
I spent dozens of hours talking with Avi and hundreds of hours editing his interviews. I have spent so much time thinking about this case. I noticed that Avi would have episodes of what I call brain scatter. There were times he would suddenly not focus on what he was trying to communicate but would say whatever would pop up into his mind. He would go off on tangents filling me on all kinds of unimportant details. He would get excited. It was a real edit job to get this story told.
There are times one can easily determine what is burning from the color of the smoke a'churnin'. I need for you to please read what you stated carefully and very closely from the point of view of a newly arrived, highly dependent and helpless foreigner.

I noticed that most seem to be convinced the woman is/was an actress and used that talent to deceive Avi. Without the benefit of witnessing or hearing this woman explain her side,  I remain indifferent. But this much I can say for now, considering you said you’ve heavily edited this film, leaves me to believe there were countless of ‘takes and re-takes’ that took place as we now watch Avi. To me, he appears like a highly-charged, emotional man, confrontational tone at the very least. Now, he’s either ‘acting’ that part, which would make him a hell of an actor, or worst; he’s really like that in person. You even admit that he’s a piece of work yourself, so dunno

Quote
3) Pride verses Practicality of cutting a deal Avi wasn't alone in making his decision to try and deny her a green card. He had talks about what was going on with Ilana, their two sons, Elizabeth the attorney and later Zoya. All were of the opinion Yelena did not deserve a green card.

We, each of us, occasionally invite the devil into our lives. Why, all of the sudden is there a need to have everyone else decide for us as to whether or not we should live with it for the rest of our lives?

Just like the advice people throw at one another in this saga from folks in the internet they don't know. It is one thing to have to live with the devil because of your own mistake/s, it is quite another to live with it the rest of your life based on a mistake you’ve allowed someone else to make for you.

In the end Maxx, Avi gets to live with everyone else's mistake and the gal is still in the US with her green card.

When we stop making sense, life has a very nasty habit of continuing to make it for us.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on December 23, 2010, 04:04:00 PM
GQ,

essentially you are arguing that because Avi was lonely and desperate, and/or not a good catch, that Yelena was justified in her actions of commiting immigration fraud.  in fact you go beyond even that, implying that Yelena had to wake up from her "nightmare", and that Avi was probably "controlling".  you ignore the overwhelming evidence that Yelena intended to commit immigration fraud from the beginning, and did so.  but she was not happy to do just that, she also had to falsely accuse him of domestic violence, to satisfy her enormous ego about her own self importance.  the fact that you would take her point of view in this debacle is pathetic.  why do you think that criminals should be rewarded??  do you think that we have laws on the books only to be defiled and spit upon??  

LOL.

Rubicon-

If you read that particular post, you'll find it is YOU who are implying the charges you're trying to lay on me. That post was for the nameless, faceless desperate and lonely blokes presently littering the streets of FSU. You, however, is always free to make the association yourself.

The phrase that men speak of when they say 'traditional women', i.e. in the MOB, subliminally define submissive, dependent and helpless women. That's my opinion, you're definitely entitled to yours.  ;)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 23, 2010, 06:16:43 PM
Thanks for the fairly long response Maxx. I will make a special note of the civility I found your post to be in...that’s a very good sign, Maxx.


There has been many good signs lately  ;D

I appreciate your scepticism. That is your taking a deep critical look at these tales of woe. Scepticism keeps things honest and ourselves as well. In the near future I plan to release more films on this subject right here on RWD. I would appreciate very much your scepticism of the subjects of these films. They need a critic. Could you do that for me?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 23, 2010, 06:18:27 PM
Hi Maxx2,

is anything being done to change this current situation which allows women to commit immigration fraud and get away with it??  just what specifically are the current laws, and why are they not being enforced??  are you or anyone else trying to change the laws in order to prevent future fraud from occuring?

did Yelena win any monies in her suit against Avi for 250K??  or did a judge also hopefully dismiss her lawsuit??

the stress of this situation, and I think the stress of cancer, shows on Avi's face.  it's very sad that "nice guys finish last".  Yelena knew that Avi was "maki"  a nice guy, and in her evilness did what she could to take advantage of him and now she seeks to profit from her actions further... a very sad story.

I will answer these questions a little later. Thank you for asking them.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 06:32:49 PM
Quote
Absolutely. This largely have more to do, and greatly in common with, with men who travel to FSU searching for someone to fill a void in their sorry lives. Instead of spending productive time to 'better oneself' and change their current social status quo, they instead hurl the blame at the women in their lair and seek out a stranger from another country out of desperation. That state of mind is the evil that lurks in these relationships.

A lonely and desperate person will always be a very insecure bloke. The process AMs have to go through to import a void filler and immigrate her here is a path that easily gives an impression 'he's doing everything for her'. Mix that with the fact he's lonely and desperate to begin with, it's the perfect recipe for the creation of a highly controlling John Frankenstein. And yes, these women aren't rocks. Honest intentions have very little to do with it. They're human beings. They will awake from a nightmare just like any other. It won't take them a whole lot of time to see for themselves and fully understand the REAL reason why many of these men are in places like the FSU looking for 'wives' to begin with. These men may feel significant and get attention while in FSU, but they will all have to come back home AND reality. Only this time, sexy Olga gets to 'live' with 'his' reality for as long as livable.

The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.
:applaud: :thumbsup:
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 06:38:50 PM
Yes, money is not an issue inside a relationship (I mean the giving, not problems caused by a lack thereof)... but, Doll, did you refuse to eat with your husband, or avoid him on a daily basis?  I think that is an enormous warning indicator of things to come and one that anyone should have been able to see. 
Wait, the "signs" we are talking about could be seen before she got here. Somebody mentioned this money as a "red flag".
 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 06:43:12 PM
Quote
If you notice at 2:44 of the second clip Ilana says "he cheated on him". You have to listen close. I noticed Avi saying in clips (that I didn't use) his getting the right gender wrong with his "he's" and "her's". I noticed this with Zoya as well. I asked a Russian woman I know about this and she said this mistake was common with Russians. Is this true? Have you noticed this?
Yes, it is quite common with people who don't speak English well enough.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 06:54:09 PM
Quote
1) Get married ASAP
2) File all immigration documents
3) Then go on honeymoon

I remember Gary's wife Elena had Gary stop at the service center to file the adjustment of status right after they were married. Honeymoon came later.

Other red flags are and I know I have got to be careful with those, is not caring about the wedding ceremony, how the groom is dressed, avoiding churches (I know you have to use ZAGS in Russia to make it official), taking photos only for USCIS requirements and not any for  friends and family, forgeting birthdays of the USC spouse and anniversaries, lengthy phone calls to immigration savvy "friends" and the word "document" said over and over again, sudden emergency trips for reasons that are difficult to check and not doing anything that indicates plans for a long term life together. An example of the last one would not caring if the husband learned your language even if he asked. Again any of these red flags may have an alternative explanation other than marriage fraud.

Guys, I am in a "fake" marriage!    I did all the above!
(http://s2.rimg.info/ff7b651aa3240ae5628544d2e1fcb6a6.gif) (http://smajliki.ru/smilie-251783463.html)
OMG!
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 06:57:21 PM
 ooops)))
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 07:10:58 PM
I have finished reading GQ's posts.
 (http://gs106.rimg.info/9a480339bcf3b879f0ab35b34e17825f.png)  (http://smajliki.ru/smiliegenerator/)

(http://s5.rimg.info/f50aa9ab4695fd26b9c6dee65a8a8064.gif) (http://smajliki.ru/smilie-519115143.html)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Daveman on December 23, 2010, 07:16:37 PM

Guys, I am in a "fake" marriage!    I did all the above!
(http://s2.rimg.info/ff7b651aa3240ae5628544d2e1fcb6a6.gif) (http://smajliki.ru/smilie-251783463.html)
OMG!


LoL.. some scams DO take a little longer to unfold than others!  :evil:
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 07:25:39 PM
LoL.. some scams DO take a little longer to unfold than others!  :evil:
That's right!
I also leave my husband eat alone (OMG!) when he doesn't behave. Seriously!
(http://s4.rimg.info/3e377cd9429fe9177615a222a0dfe652.gif) (http://smajliki.ru/smilie-473107335.html)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 07:29:19 PM
Maxx, just a question- are you dating now or what? :D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on December 23, 2010, 07:36:25 PM
The subliminal definition behind the phrase 'traditional women' are 'submissive', dependent & helplessness. Perfect companion for one who is lonely, desperate and controlling. AWs have done away with these silliness and these men know that full well...so they search in FSU.

and those lonely and desperate men who turns or maybe not into a "highly controlling John Frankenstein" are also an easy prey for FSUW predators who knows how to play the cards. Their (FSUW's) submissiveness, dependency, helplessness, traditionalism, loveliness, tenderness, thoughtfulness whatever your call it will disappear in the right moment, and they already know about shelters, who to contact to and how to scratch and bruise themselves. One guy probably will think twice before going the painful road after being blackmailed by his "lovely  traditional wife", the other guy will pick up the "tomahawk". Some AW, btw, also know how to play tricks and do not hesitate to,  especially when it comes to "who will get custody of a child".
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 23, 2010, 07:39:06 PM
and those lonely and desperate men who turns or maybe not into a "highly controlling John Frankenstein" are also an easy prey for FSUW predators who knows how to play the cards. Their (FSUW's) submissiveness, dependency, helplessness, traditionalism, loveliness, tenderness, thoughtfulness whatever your call it will disappear in the right moment, and they already know about shelters, who to contact to and how to scratch and bruise themselves. One guy probably will think twice before going the painful road after being blackmailed by his "lovely  traditional wife", the other guy will pick up the "tomahawk". Some AW, btw, also know how to play tricks and do not hesitate to,  especially when it comes to "who will get custody of a child".
True.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 29, 2010, 05:29:06 PM

Here is a video of Ilana, Avi's first wife in Russian. I have never had this translated to me. Also I am working on the Russian interview of Zoya that I should have posted in the next day or two. I may have a few clips of Avi in English after that.

Overall what I am working on is winding up this story and then go on to another one and so on. These are not just 'men done wrong' tales. There are the 'women done wrong' as well. A few interviews with Russian women attorneys and a surprise I'll keep for the end.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjX3ION0rVg[/youtube]
 

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Misha on December 29, 2010, 05:58:30 PM
2) Brain scatter, ramblings and Russian problems with gender identification If you notice at 2:44 of the second clip Ilana says "he cheated on him". You have to listen close. I noticed Avi saying in clips (that I didn't use) his getting the right gender wrong with his "he's" and "her's". I noticed this with Zoya as well. I asked a Russian woman I know about this and she said this mistake was common with Russians. Is this true? Have you noticed this?

Yes. My wife still slips up from time to time. It is quite common as a person is learning English.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 29, 2010, 06:38:23 PM
Here is a video of Ilana, Avi's first wife in Russian. I have never had this translated to me. Also I am working on the Russian interview of Zoya that I should have posted in the next day or two. I may have a few clips of Avi in English after that.

Overall what I am working on is winding up this story and then go on to another one and so on. These are not just 'men done wrong' tales. There are the 'women done wrong' as well. A few interviews with Russian women attorneys and a surprise I'll keep for the end.


Good job, Maxx2! So far I cannot see anything about the 'women done wrong'. On the video, I can see one good woman who protects her ex because they are still friends.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 29, 2010, 07:05:07 PM
Good job, Maxx2! So far I cannot see anything about the 'women done wrong'. On the video, I can see one good woman who protects her ex because they are still friends.

That will be in other videos I will post. These are of completely different people from the ones in "Avi's Story".
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on December 29, 2010, 07:11:13 PM
There has been many good signs lately  ;D

That's good to know Maxx. Keep it up!

Quote
I appreciate your scepticism. That is your taking a deep critical look at these tales of woe. Scepticism keeps things honest and ourselves as well. In the near future I plan to release more films on this subject right here on RWD. I would appreciate very much your scepticism of the subjects of these films. They need a critic. Could you do that for me?

Then allow me to make my first installment...

My skepticism arose from a few things in this video. Let me try and see if I can clearly spell them out for you for no other reason that just to give you a counter perspective. If there's a purpose in making these videos, I think it'll help your cause immensely to present from the most objective & neutral position. Otherwise, it easily mark these videos at best as biased and one-sided. At worst, a witchhunt.

1. Interview the other party. Give your audience the benefit of hearing the other side. Imagine this a court of law. You presented the plaintiff's case including all the circumstantial evidence, witnesses, etc...and expect your audience then to become judge, jury, and executioners without the benefit of hearing the defendant's side of the story. That's likely fine to many, like this thread clearly shows, but not to everyone. If that is the type of audience you're trying to reach, then nothing more I need to add. Without both sides of the story getting equal representation, then it's empty and far too inconclusive.

2. In this video, you showed the woman and her alleged boyfriend walking together, standing in front of the elevator, etc...then concluded they've been having 'sex'. Then left it up to the audience to speculate and assume they've been having torrid sex despite the absence of irrefutable proof. Spending night/s in his apartment doesn't automatically mean they're having intimate relationships, does it? I've had more than a few friends spend the night in my crib habitually before but sex was hardly a consideration let alone a foregone conclusion. They did it because they knew me enough as a friend.

Another thing that just doesn't sit well with me is the whole storyline that somehow this woman and her alleged boyfriend rode this experience to somehow save the man a few dollars it cost of immigrating her to the US. I don't know about everyone else here but for me I'll be damned if I even remotely consider going through the silliness of watching my girlfriend shack-up with another man for a few months as boyfriend/girlfriend - husband/wife just so I can save a few dollars for the cost of immigrating her. I mean, can YOU do that? Can any of the men who automatically pronounced this woman guilty as charged honestly tell you they fully understand the logic of this decision and that this is more than just imaginable? I doubt it.

However if there's any validity to the notion that this acidic frugality reigns supreme in some men, then dive into that. Find out from the actual men, like the one in this video, the reason/s and the logic why they would allow themselves, and their girlfriend/s, to go through such situations.

Lastly, since you asked I be a critic...the other players are far too rigid and too rehearsed. They are hardly, IMHO, convincing.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 29, 2010, 09:27:00 PM
That's good to know Maxx. Keep it up!

Then allow me to make my first installment...

My skepticism arose from a few things in this video. Let me try and see if I can clearly spell them out for you for no other reason that just to give you a counter perspective. If there's a purpose in making these videos, I think it'll help your cause immensely to present from the most objective & neutral position. Otherwise, it easily mark these videos at best as biased and one-sided. At worst, a witchhunt.

1. Interview the other party. Give your audience the benefit of hearing the other side. Imagine this a court of law. You presented the plaintiff's case including all the circumstantial evidence, witnesses, etc...and expect your audience then to become judge, jury, and executioners without the benefit of hearing the defendant's side of the story. That's likely fine to many, like this thread clearly shows, but not to everyone. If that is the type of audience you're trying to reach, then nothing more I need to add. Without both sides of the story getting equal representation, then it's empty and far too inconclusive.

2. In this video, you showed the woman and her alleged boyfriend walking together, standing in front of the elevator, etc...then concluded they've been having 'sex'. Then left it up to the audience to speculate and assume they've been having torrid sex despite the absence of irrefutable proof. Spending night/s in his apartment doesn't automatically mean they're having intimate relationships, does it? I've had more than a few friends spend the night in my crib habitually before but sex was hardly a consideration let alone a foregone conclusion. They did it because they knew me enough as a friend.

Another thing that just doesn't sit well with me is the whole storyline that somehow this woman and her alleged boyfriend rode this experience to somehow save the man a few dollars it cost of immigrating her to the US. I don't know about everyone else here but for me I'll be damned if I even remotely consider going through the silliness of watching my girlfriend shack-up with another man for a few months as boyfriend/girlfriend - husband/wife just so I can save a few dollars for the cost of immigrating her. I mean, can YOU do that? Can any of the men who automatically pronounced this woman guilty as charged honestly tell you they fully understand the logic of this decision and that this is more than just imaginable? I doubt it.

However if there's any validity to the notion that this acidic frugality reigns supreme in some men, then dive into that. Find out from the actual men, like the one in this video, the reason/s and the logic why they would allow themselves, and their girlfriend/s, to go through such situations.

Lastly, since you asked I be a critic...the other players are far too rigid and too rehearsed. They are hardly, IMHO, convincing.

Hello GQ

I think a lot your questions would be understood by you if you had made a documentary film on this subject or any subject involving people.  There are limitations of what is possible to present. As example your observation that the people seemed rigid and rehearsed. Half the people in this story were reluctant to get on camera. They were not used to being on camera especially with all the lights, the boom mike hanging over their head and a wireless mike up their blouse/shirt.

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/P1110114.jpg)

They did it because Avi thought it might help him somehow. And it did help him but I will say how that was when I cap off this story. That is for later. Back to the subject. They were not comfortable but they were  probably not comfortable testify in court either. Oh and case you say they were pressured by Avi. They were. Elizabeth said "I had to get involved in the case". That is somewhere in the beginning of this video. This was because she was subpoenaed while on vacation and had to cut it short. She came to court. Told the truth. And Avi won. So putting pressure on people to help is not the same thing as getting them to lie. Sorry I am just trying to anticipate your next observation OK?

The part about appearing rehearsed. I didn't see that although in another video of Zoya there was a point where we were  searching for the right English word Zoya could use to describe Avi. She said it in Russian but her limited English the right word couldn't come to her. So the Russian woman that helped me with this that was there (BTW most of my help were women) explained it to me and we came up with "easy to fool". "Michael said Avi was easy to fool". The Russian translation of this word I will ask Lily, OlgaH or Doll when I post this interview in Russian. I think the right word might be "dupe", "smuck", "fool" or something else derogatory. But this another example of limitations with stories like these.

About my assumption of their being romantic. The first sign of this was in his e-mail to Avi's wife. The one dated 2 weeks after Avi married her. Michael calls her "kitten" and "my love" and says "Miss you a lot!" "love ya" "Yours, the one and only crazy one". Then he takes a vacation with her and they stay in the same hotel and spend the night together. Zoya in the Russian interview gets more in detail with this.

Finally it's near impossible to get both sides to tell their story. We try. We call them but they run. We send e-mails and they go unanswered. We get a calls from a father or wife saying don't bother my son or husband.

So what to do? I post a variety of different stories then let everyone decide for themselves what is what. The big challenge is going to be to the ones here. Will they be as balanced in their criticism and scepticism of American men, immigrant men, American women and Russian women?  Will they subject those in the videos to the same standard of judgment? Then afterward some given a thumbs and others not. Or will all these people be lumped together and called losers? And if so could we not say the same for all of us?

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/YelenaElizabeth-1-1.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Professor.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/OliverIrina.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Elena.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Bella.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/Bell.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/SlyPlans.jpg)

(http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k131/Maxx_1953/toth_031208-1.jpg)
















Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on December 29, 2010, 11:19:01 PM
Hello GQ

I think a lot your questions would be understood by you if you had made a documentary film on this subject or any subject involving people.  There are limitations of what is possible to present. As example your observation that the people seemed rigid and rehearsed. Half the people in this story were reluctant to get on camera. They were not used to being on camera especially with all the lights, the boom mike hanging over their head and a wireless mike up their blouse/shirt.

Maxx-

I got on a syndicated national TV talk show, so I know what it's like to be in front of cameras, lights, make-ups (though that didn't help my ugly mug at all) and more especially a raucous audience bent on putting all of us on hay burner. As a matter of fact, the pre-show spat was that they wanted to make a presentation of couples married through the MOB from a positive angle. What they didn't tell us was that they were planning on exploiting the ugly side of it for the show in front of a hostile crowd. We received no script, no rehearsals and worst, no warnings. They were hoping for a heigthened ratings a la Jerry Springer. It backfired on them.

Quote
So putting pressure on people to help is not the same thing as getting them to lie. Sorry I am just trying to anticipate your next observation OK?

I never implied or inferred someone or anyone was lying. When I said 'rehearsed', none of the folks actually paused, stuttered, etc...considering the degree of, and presumably the weight of, what they were actually doing it for. It almost appear like a recital as oppose to a candid interview. Natural English speakers have a hard time doing this let alone foreigners who are obviously challenged with the language - like myself  ;)

Quote
About my assumption of their being romantic. The first sign of this was in his e-mail to Avi's wife. The one dated 2 weeks after Avi married her. Michael calls her "kitten" and "my love" and says "Miss you a lot!" "love ya" "Yours, the one and only crazy one". Then he takes a vacation with her and they stay in the same hotel and spend the night together. Zoya in the Russian interview gets more in detail with this.

As for the assumption of romantic liasons, I still contend much of what you've given so far are mere 'circumstantial'. It proves nothing. It means nothing. You will be hard pressed to convict anyone by merely presenting terms of endearment as sole proof for sexual relationships. LOL. I had a friend who's married now and lives in New York. She used to write me emails and ends it with "Give it to me hard big boy!". We never had sex, Maxx and we've hung out for years. Based on that term of endearment compared to the ones you cited above, I must be having orgies on a batstick with this gal, no?

There had been a few women who had sent me flowers, long stem chocolate cookies, etc...on my birthdays or other special occassions or just because - with silly terms of endearments but it doesn't mean we gitdown'ndirty. Like I said, it'll only help the cause more if you can show more proofs e.g. PDA, Got Milk-like photos, etc...instead of idle  assumptions. Do you not agree?

Quote
Finally it's near impossible to get both sides to tell their story. We try. We call them but they run. We send e-mails and they go unanswered. We get a calls from a father or wife saying don't bother my son or husband.

No one said these things are easy, but like I said, if you want to present this from a neutral objective position then you have but one thing to do. It isn't an option. I'm sure you've seen journalists trying to do this many times despite unwilling parties...they'll show doors being shut, cameras being shoved away, etc...but clearly, if nothing else, the effort to do so exists. The burden of proof lies upon you. If you assume that burden, then you can't just simply dismiss it for being difficult to do and not even make a declaration 'why' you don't have it on your videos.

Anyway, was there a bigger payback for the guy (and gal) other than just the monies saved for the cost of immigration for the woman? You didn't actually address this matter on your last post.
 
Once again...I'm not saying bad or good to any of the party. I remain indifferent until I hear the other side of the story and had seen all irrefutable proofs given and accepted by the law. I'm not as quick as the others to make a judgment until I hear all sides of the story. Right now, most of my points are aimed at the people on Avi's side, and Avi himself, for no other reason than they're really the only ones talking.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 30, 2010, 03:34:08 AM
I had a long post prepared and almost finished but my computer crashed so I will answer this part.


Maxx-

As for the assumption of romantic liasons, I still contend much of what you've given so far are mere 'circumstantial'. It proves nothing. It means nothing. You will be hard pressed to convict anyone by merely presenting terms of endearment as sole proof for sexual relationships. LOL. I had a friend who's married now and lives in New York. She used to write me emails and ends it with "Give it to me hard big boy!". We never had sex, Maxx and we've hung out for years. Based on that term of endearment compared to the ones you cited above, I must be having orgies on a batstick with this gal, no?

There had been a few women who had sent me flowers, long stem chocolate cookies, etc...on my birthdays or other special occassions or just because - with silly terms of endearments but it doesn't mean we gitdown'ndirty. Like I said, it'll only help the cause more if you can show more proofs e.g. PDA, Got Milk-like photos, etc...instead of idle  assumptions. Do you not agree?


You had a real strange life with women. Too bad they were not as honest as Billy was with Meg.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zFWGOKuFyjk&feature=related[/youtube]

But at least it beat my life with women

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMWpxTK7q2s&feature=player_embedded#![/youtube]
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on December 30, 2010, 07:29:36 AM
What would the two last videos have to do with the thread?

Nice song in the movie. What is the whole thing with prononciation of [poteito - potAto] and the other words, can someone explain?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: SANDRO43 on December 30, 2010, 09:36:21 AM
Nice song in the movie. What is the whole thing with prononciation of [poteito - potAto] and the other words, can someone explain?
American vs. British English, Lily ;).

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJz7bIl0kRw[/youtube]

Let's Call The Whole Thing Off, a song written by George and Ira Gershwin for the 1937 film Shall We Dance.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 30, 2010, 11:44:25 AM
What would the two last videos have to do with the thread?

Nice song in the movie. What is the whole thing with prononciation of [poteito - potAto] and the other words, can someone explain?

It's GQ and I teasing each other. I got to be careful not to get sidetracked.

I am working on the next video in Russian.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 30, 2010, 05:47:20 PM
Here is Zoya. As Avi calls her "wife of boyfriend". I have not heard the Russian translation of what she is saying. Anyone here that could give us a brief outline of what she said I would much appreciate it.

Part 1 of 2
[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uk7dqgJzWLs[/youtube]
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 31, 2010, 12:27:23 AM
Part 2 of 2

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLrZ_e9TMdc[/youtube]
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:29:53 AM


Part 1 of 2
 
Just a question- how did Zoya come to the USA? She says "they met each other in Russia. came to the USA and got married here"
Like tourists?
Just a "side" comment- how is it possible to live in the country for 15 (?) years and to not have a clue how to handle the finances? She has never been to the bank, etc.
It is another warning to women.
Sort of off topic.

BTW, Ilana still is not saying why she divorced Ivy.
Another detail- age gap! Nothing new though. 8) 35 years old and 54-55?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:34:39 AM
One more: they said Yelena "met" Mike when she "already had her visa". So, there was NO initial intention to come to the USA to "mess with another man".
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:47:24 AM
Here is Zoya. As Avi calls her "wife of boyfriend". I have not heard the Russian translation of what she is saying. Anyone here that could give us a brief outline of what she said I would much appreciate it.

Part 1 of 2
 
She is telling   her and Mike's "love story", then how he changed . Not sure what was going on in her family before but she said that "there was no life anyway". So, she herself suggested  divorcing. Her husband just agreed.
 As for DV or not- she is just giving her assumptions and generalizations regarding "Russian women coming to the USA"
Yet same question- how did she come to the country? If she does not speak a decent English now, 15 years later, then what brought her here? I mean- how?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 05:30:44 AM
Avy says he "lost his finances". How? If the marriage was annulled?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 06:28:59 AM
In part 2 Zoya is wondering why RW come to the USA and want to get married right away (for her 2-3 months is "right away")- she says that Americans live 5-6 years together and then get married.
How nice! Would be helpful before saying it get to know the K-1 visa requirements.

 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on December 31, 2010, 10:24:55 AM
Just a question- how did Zoya come to the USA? She says "they met each other in Russia. came to the USA and got married here"
Like tourists?

I think they immigrated.

Quote
BTW, Ilana still is not saying why she divorced Ivy.

Ilana said she and Avi became more like relatives than a husband and a wife.

One more: they said Yelena "met" Mike when she "already had her visa". So, there was NO initial intention to come to the USA to "mess with another man".

Zoya and Avi said that Yelena met Mike (Zoya's husband) through a dating site. When Yelena got her visa and came to the US she still continued her internet dating.  Avi showed Mike's love letter to Yelena that was dated March 3, 2005, the marriage certificate of Avi and Yelena's   was dated February 23, 2005. It was just 15 days. According to Zoya Yelena openly stated that she needed Avi just to come to the US.
Yelena came to the US on January 23, it was the time when Mike sent Zoya to Moscow to visit her parents, though Zoya always went to Russia in April, but it was Mike's idea that Zoya should go in January.


Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 31, 2010, 10:32:03 AM
One more: they said Yelena "met" Mike when she "already had her visa". So, there was NO initial intention to come to the USA to "mess with another man".

According to Zoya, Yelena met her husband Michael on the internet before she came to America on a fiancee visa. She came to America engaged to Avi. After Yelena got to America she met Michael while she was engaged to Avi. Then as I listened to the Russian translation unable to understand Russian I heard the words "Atlantic City" and "Palms". I know enough of the story I was told is that Michael went to Atlantic city where he met Yelena for a weekend together. This was less than two weeks after Yelena married Avi. The "Palms" was the restaurant were Michael worked and it was the reason that Michael claimed he had to go to Atlantic city. They were opening a new restaurant there. Michael had been acting depressed. Zoya said she wondered why. He would not tell her. So when he went to Atlantic city and wouldn't allow her to come with him she figured there might be something Michael was not telling her. Perhaps the reason for his depression. It was then that she asked her daughter to look into his computer. There she found Michael's emails to Yelena. In the emails I was told that they discussed Avi and the real reason why Yelena was coming to America and it wasn't for a long term marriage to Avi.  Just temporary. Zoya confronted Michael about this when he returned home. This conversation is in video in Part one.

According to Avi he was at work when he got a call from Yelena. She told him that she was on her way to Atlantic city to help a old girlfriend with a problem. That she would be back in a few days.

In the detective's footage (film) there is a scene where Yelena ducts into a car. This was at the back of the building in the service area where the garbage dumpsters are kept. She would meet Michael there when Avi was at home and she would have to go out for some reason or another. She did not use the front entrance where there are people at the reception desk.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 31, 2010, 10:52:40 AM

Yelena came to the US on January 23, it was the time when Mike sent Zoya to Moscow to visit her parents, though Zoya always went to Russia in April, but it was Mike's idea that Zoya should go in January.




Hello Olga.

That was a detail that I had forgot up till now. Zoya told me that according to the emails Yelena arranged her first face to face meeting with Michael the second day after she got here. Also that Yelena continued with her online dating after she got here. Avi told me that Yelena asked him for a quality camera as a present. That she used this camera to take pictures of herself for the purpose of posting them on the net. Avi said to me "Can you image that?! She asked me to give her a camera so she could do this!"
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:14:21 PM
I think they immigrated.

 
 



No kidding. How?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 31, 2010, 04:20:12 PM
No kidding. How?

Judging by the time they arrived (approximately 20 years ago) probably the same why Avi and Ilana did.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:20:23 PM
Quote
Ilana said she and Avi became more like relatives than a husband and a wife.
So this is the reason to divorce a man after 30 years of marriage?
We all are relatives.
Come on!  There has to be the reason.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:23:02 PM
Quote
According to Zoya Yelena openly stated that she needed Avi just to come to the US.
According to Zoya. That's right.
You know how it is called? Assumicuide.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:27:02 PM
Judging by the time they arrived (approximately 20 years ago) probably the same why Avi and Ilana did.
Ok, how?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:31:57 PM
Judging by the time they arrived (approximately 20 years ago) probably the same why Avi and Ilana did.
Ivy immigrated to Israel first, then he relocated to Germany, then he got the job  offer in the USA. So Zoya came same way? She and her daughter separately from Mike.
How?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2010, 04:47:38 PM
Depending on when they emigrated, Doll, if they are Jewish, they could have emigrated directly to the U.S.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 04:50:09 PM
Depending on when they emigrated, Doll, if they are Jewish, they could have emigrated directly to the U.S.
They could, but how did it happen really?
Meaning what were the reasons?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 31, 2010, 04:52:55 PM
Ivy immigrated to Israel first, then he relocated to Germany, then he got the job  offer in the USA. So Zoya came same way? She and her daughter separately from Mike.
How?

I don't know Doll. It is a guess on my part that they were Jewish. I know that many FSU immigrants in the late 80's came on account of their being Jewish. I actually worked for a short time for a man who came to America this way.

Also I remember that Zoya was Armanian. She told me that when she went to court she met Yelena in the hallway and Yelena mentioned that to her plus some other rather unpleasant words.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2010, 05:02:27 PM
The largest number of Jews emigrated in the early 1980's.  If one person in the family was Jewish (one spouse, for example), the whole family could emigrate.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 05:03:56 PM
Maxx, we can discuss this story forever, but something is missing. Too many assumptions and no "other side" reasons at all. Agree with GQ.

Yes, there are women who just use the AM as tickets, but the percentage is tiny.
The visa was gotten regardless BF, Mike was in the picture much later, age gap (20 years?), etc.
She (Yelena) had to count on some income, not so? She and 2 boys in this country with no job?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on December 31, 2010, 05:10:20 PM
The largest number of Jews emigrated in the early 1980's.  If one person in the family was Jewish (one spouse, for example), the whole family could emigrate.
Do we know the reason?
What I am implying is that both Jews and K-1 visa women were and are looking for the better life.
I hate it when Zoya is judging RW who marry AM. See what she said? Seeking for abuse is "on fashion". This is what she said.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Boethius on December 31, 2010, 05:21:29 PM
They may have been looking for a better life, but they may also have wanted personal freedom.  RW emigrating now have the same freedoms as Westerners.  That wasn't the case in the USSR.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on December 31, 2010, 05:30:39 PM
Maxx, we can discuss this story forever, but something is missing. Too many assumptions and no "other side" reasons at all. Agree with GQ.

Yes, there are women who just use the AM as tickets, but the percentage is tiny.
The visa was gotten regardless BF, Mike was in the picture much later, age gap (20 years?), etc.
She (Yelena) had to count on some income, not so? She and 2 boys in this country with no job?

The video "other side" on another completely different format is something I am going post soon on another thread. Let us see if the same level of criticism will be taken by you and GQ when the subject is somebody who would normally support your opinions.  :)

Just to let everyone know I have made arrangements with Daveman to put these videos into one thread as a video resource for this board. Each new subject will be on a separate thread and later merged.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: SFandEE on December 31, 2010, 08:21:35 PM
I scanned through the thread, but it does not seem to be mentioned very much.

Yelena is a bad person and did bad things.  Hope she is out of America or on her way out soon.  Good riddance.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on December 31, 2010, 10:15:47 PM
According to Zoya. That's right.
You know how it is called? Assumicuide.



 In the e-mail exchanges Michael had with Yelena that was read by Zoya he said to Yelena "I know this Avi. Why are you going to marry him?" Yelena's responce was "How else am I going to get to America with two kids?" to which Michael said "Avi should be easy to fool".


Just "to get to America" was  Yelena's initial plan.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on December 31, 2010, 10:22:53 PM
So this is the reason to divorce a man after 30 years of marriage?
We all are relatives.
Come on!  There has to be the reason.

There can be different reasons. Some married couples can live like brother and sister, other couples decide that the separation would be better.

The most important despite divorce Avi and Ilana remain friends and relatives too, and Ilana still worries about Avi.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on December 31, 2010, 10:46:47 PM
I hate it when Zoya is judging RW who marry AM. See what she said? Seeking for abuse is "on fashion". This is what she said.

You probably missed when Zoya said: "Such people like Yelena Mamedova..."
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 06:34:55 AM
They may have been looking for a better life, but they may also have wanted personal freedom.  RW emigrating now have the same freedoms as Westerners.  That wasn't the case in the USSR.
Let's not go there!  8)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 06:40:53 AM
You probably missed when Zoya said: "Such people like Yelena Mamedova..."
She said,"Первым делом, кто приезжает из России говорят, что бил". No reference to Yelena.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 01, 2011, 10:15:25 AM
She said,"Первым делом, кто приезжает из России говорят, что бил". No reference to Yelena.

Actually there is reference to Yelena from the beginning.

Interviewer: She, Yelena, said that Avi beat her...
Zoya: What else Elena can say. It's "fashionable" today who come from Russia the first thing they say they were "abused", what else they can say. A man accepted her with two children, she did not work a day in the US living in his apartment and spending his money, he was working and he even did not have a clue what she was doing. What else she could say? What other charges she could press against Avi? Of course there are cases when they (women) were really abused, but in general such people as Yelena Mamedova who come to the US initially knowing the purpose the first thing they say they were abused. Why? Because it is the first law that is very punishable...

I took Zoya's sentence you quoted in the content regarding Yelena. You of course can take it differently  :)

 
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 01, 2011, 11:07:37 AM

In English Zoya tells about Yelena's plan for marriage with Avi.
What Zoya thinks about Russian women marrying American men.
Her opinion of some Russian women's knowledge of the system and the use of women's shelters.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M9wHPbq8xgA[/youtube]




Avi is asked "Are they vulnerable?"
Avi gives his opinion of Russian women on the Internet.

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MDc6DTsPcw[/youtube]
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on January 01, 2011, 11:43:55 AM
Thanks for your work and posting it, Maxx2. This is something interesting here with Zoya's view.

She opines that a woman's knowledge about her options in the US may be a pre-requisite to the woman's decision to marry an AM. Unfortunately, from Zoya's words either English or Russian, I could not draw any particular correlation about what results from what, starting 3:17. She says that people who know in advance what options will be available to them in the US, like shelter and others, may be willing to come to the US with an idea mainly to use these options, if I got Zoya's point correctly.

Would Zoya think that a naive woman without any knowledge about her rights in the US be by definition a honest foreign husband seeker?
 
If this would be correct, then we could assume that any woman who is well-informed about her rights, like myself, for example, would marry anyone in order to lie and betray him later, and to use the available legal options against him to her advantage.  >:(

As for Avi, I agree with what he said. He picked up a vicious and dishonest person. The only mistake he did was a wrong choice, that's it.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Gylden on January 01, 2011, 12:02:42 PM
I sat with my wife and watched all of the video clips in their entirety, after which I had to take a couple of aspirin to calm the headache from having to concentrate so much trying to understand just exactly what they were saying.

What strikes me in particular, why these people seem to be really struggling to communicate in English even after so many years in the US? I realize the difficulties in trying to learn a new language, as it is something I have experienced first hand. But this seems to be an extreme example.

Off the cuff, I would say that this is what can happen to a guy, when looking at too many young hotties and ignoring reality. I feel sorry for him, but at the same time he most likely deserves half of the credit himself.

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 01, 2011, 12:13:12 PM
Is Zoya the woman Mike allegedly left for Ilyana? If so, she wouldn't happen to have reason/s to be howling like a banshee, does she?

Zoya: What else Elena can say. It's "fashionable" today who come from Russia the first thing they say they were "abused", what else they can say. If true, of course they should, why shouldn't they? That's what the law is for. A man accepted her with two children, she did not work a day in the US living in his apartment and spending his money, Sounds a lot like a typical K visa situation, doesn't it? So where's the problem? he was working and he even did not have a clue what she was doing. When my wife first arrived and I had to go to work, I didn't have a clue what my wife did too while I was gone but I never beat her and thus she never filed charges of abuse against me...what's your/her point? What else she could say? What other charges she could press against Avi? Of course there are cases when they (women) were really abused, but in general such people as Yelena Mamedova who come to the US initially knowing the purpose the first thing they say they were abused. Speculation. Unless you/Zoya, as apparently Maxx do not, have actual proof the charges of abuse is fabricated, please indulge. The police didn't believe so when they came to their home, no? Why? Because it is the first law that is very punishable... As it should. As it should....

Until Maxx graces us with the other party's side of the story...this is pretty much a witch hunt.

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 01, 2011, 12:29:21 PM
Thanks for your work and posting it, Maxx2. This is something interesting here with Zoya's view.

She opines that a woman's knowledge about her options in the US may be a pre-requisite to the woman's decision to marry an AM. Unfortunately, from Zoya's words either English or Russian, I could not draw any particular correlation about what results from what, starting 3:17. She says that people who know in advance what options will be available to them in the US, like shelter and others, may be willing to come to the US with an idea mainly to use these options, if I got Zoya's point correctly.

Would Zoya think that a naive woman without any knowledge about her rights in the US be by definition a honest foreign husband seeker?
 
If this would be correct, then we could assume that any woman who is well-informed about her rights, like myself, for example, would marry anyone in order to lie and betray him later, and to use the available legal options against him to her advantage.  >:(

As for Avi, I agree with what he said. He picked up a vicious and dishonest person. The only mistake he did was a wrong choice, that's it.

Thank you Lily. I will be posting a variety of opinions and details of such cases by people not associated with Avi or his story. You will hear experiences from different people besides the one's in Avi story. I want people to get a overall view of this phenomena.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 01, 2011, 12:35:45 PM
Is Zoya the woman Mike allegedly left for Ilyana? If so, she wouldn't happen to have reason/s to be howling like a banshee, does she?

Until Maxx graces us with the other party's side of the story...this is pretty much a witch hunt.



Michael left Zoya for Yelena not Ilana who was Avi's first wife. Of course she is bitter.

The material posted is what these people said in the courts' records. The "other party's side" denies everything.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 01, 2011, 01:24:04 PM
The material posted is what these people said in the courts' records. The "other party's side" denies everything.

Well, since the court actually 'heard' both sides, and likely saw equal evidences supporting such, what was the court's verdict? Did they find Yelena in violation of immigration laws?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 01, 2011, 01:52:13 PM
Well, since the court actually 'heard' both sides, and likely saw equal evidences supporting such, what was the court's verdict? Did they find Yelena in violation of immigration laws?

There are two different courts here, immigration and civil. In the civil court the judge dismissed the appeal by Yelena for additional money. He also dismissed what ever money payments she was getting presently from Avi. Yelena's appeal backfired on her.

In Immigration court Avi is not allowed to present his side. Only Yelena is allowed to present her story and with whatever evidence she chooses to submit. According to US law as voiced by congressman John Conyers of Michigan before the House the American citizen is considered a "Prohibited source". No statements or evidences by them are to be received by Immigration Services when an abuse claim is made by an immigrant spouse. She did get her green card.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 02:03:59 PM
Maxx, was the marriage annulled?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 02:05:39 PM

What strikes me in particular, why these people seem to be really struggling to communicate in English even after so many years in the US? I realize the difficulties in trying to learn a new language, as it is something I have experienced first hand. But this seems to be an extreme example.

 


Ivy just has a strong accent, Zoya works for Russian speaking people
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 01, 2011, 02:16:41 PM
If true, of course they should, why shouldn't they? That's what the law is for. Sounds a lot like a typical K visa situation, doesn't it? So where's the problem? When my wife first arrived and I had to go to work, I didn't have a clue what my wife did too while I was gone but I never beat her and thus she never filed charges of abuse against me...what's your/her point? Speculation. Unless you/Zoya, as apparently Maxx do not, have actual proof the charges of abuse is fabricated, please indulge. The police didn't believe so when they came to their home, no? As it should. As it should....

Yes, GQBlues, there is VAWA that protects women and I agree such law should be, but the falsified domestic violence claims also show how easily the law can be abused.

How the police works in such cases? Below is an example: a man spent 4 months in jail, lost his job and apartment, because the police ignored his alibi. Pretty sad.

http://chronicle.northcoastnow.com/2010/10/02/woman-accused-of-filing-false-claim-countersues-former-boyfriend/comment-page-1/

http://www.morningjournal.com/articles/2010/09/11/news/mj3298024.txt

As you mentioned your wife, I guess your five married you not because she wanted to get in the US so bad and she did not use you as a mule. most likely she married you because she loves you. That was not Yelena's case.


Until Maxx graces us with the other party's side of the story...this is pretty much a witch hunt.


A witch hunt? Honestly, I believe Ilana's words said about her ex-husband Avi. I would not believe a woman, particularly Yelana, who was active in dating after engagement and after wedding ceremony, who admitted that she needed a man just to get in the US with her two kids, who arranged a meeting with other man, her lover, on her second day after her arrival, who went with that man on a vacation and so on.

GQBlues,  Was there a man who sent your wife the letters with "my kitty, my love, I miss you very much and love you. Your crazy one"  after 15 days of your marriage? Did your wife secretly had a meeting with that  man on the second day after her arrival to the US and before marriage to you? Did she spend time with him in the different city saying you that she was helping her girlfriend? Did the man hug you wife and kiss your wife's neck standing near an elevator when you was not near? Did your wife spend a night with that man in an apartment alone without you being near?

You don't need to answer.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 01, 2011, 02:20:17 PM
There are two different courts here, immigration and civil. In the civil court the judge dismissed the appeal by Yelena for additional money. He also dismissed what ever money payments she was getting presently from Avi. Yelena's appeal backfired on her.

Then that court had ample reasons to arrive to that decision.

Quote
In Immigration court Avi is not allowed to present his side. Only Yelena is allowed to present her story and with whatever evidence she chooses to submit. ( one of which likely was a police record of abuse, which for all intent and purposes is all she likely needed.) According to US law as voiced by congressman John Conyers of Michigan before the House the American citizen is considered a "Prohibited source". No statements or evidences by them are to be received by Immigration Services when an abuse claim is made by an immigrant spouse. She did get her green card.

...and this court had ample reasons to arrived to that decision.

Now...what's the problem?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 02:26:47 PM

Now...what's the problem?
This is exactly what I was asking long ago- ok, this marriage is dissolved, why would Maxx create this thread?
I don't understand why Ivy said he lost his job and money? If the court dismissed the case?

I am sorry but Ivy's disease most unlikely has something to do with the case.
It is just a made believed linking.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 01, 2011, 03:02:58 PM
Then that court had ample reasons to arrive to that decision.

...and this court had ample reasons to arrived to that decision.

Now...what's the problem?

When I read about troubles that some couples, who are sincerely love each other and would like to create a family, experienced with USCIS and Immigration system my heart  goes to them.

The problem I see that not only a person's trust can be abused but the law too. And women who knows how to abuse the law and use it in their mercantile interests will get what they want, in particular case the GC. And actually any man can find himself in the same situation as Avi's case.

There also is saying: "no one can be safe from poverty or prison".
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 01, 2011, 07:05:59 PM
....A witch hunt? Honestly, I believe Ilana's words said about her ex-husband Avi. I would not believe a woman, particularly Yelana, who was active in dating after engagement and after wedding ceremony, who admitted that she needed a man just to get in the US with her two kids, who arranged a meeting with other man, her lover, on her second day after her arrival, who went with that man on a vacation and so on.

GQBlues,  Was there a man who sent your wife the letters with "my kitty, my love, I miss you very much and love you. Your crazy one"  after 15 days of your marriage? Did your wife secretly had a meeting with that  man on the second day after her arrival to the US and before marriage to you? Did she spend time with him in the different city saying you that she was helping her girlfriend? Did the man hug you wife and kiss your wife's neck standing near an elevator when you was not near? Did your wife spend a night with that man in an apartment alone without you being near?

You don't need to answer.

Therein lies the problem, Olga. You've already drawn a reality simply based on one party's assertion and came to the conclusion it's more than enough for you. To make that even worst, you've taken additional steps to venture deeper within it by projecting hypothetical example within this limitation to make your point. Sorry, can't participate in that exercise.

I've said before, present both sides of the story, then we may have a platform for discussion. Without it, it's a witch hunt.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 07:10:57 PM
It IS a witch hunt.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 01, 2011, 07:57:00 PM

I've said before, present both sides of the story, then we may have a platform for discussion. Without it, it's a witch hunt.

The court already heard both sides, and on the base of all the evidence it was admitted that Yelena cheated on Avi. Yelena was offered to present her side in the documentary but she refused, it is understandable that the proven fact she was cheating on her husband from their first days of marriage doesn't make her to look as a victim and good. So what exactly "a witch hunt" you are talking about?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 01, 2011, 08:15:24 PM
Another "court" (immigration service) issued Yelena GC- so it proves the abuse.
So?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 01, 2011, 08:30:23 PM
Another "court" (immigration service) issued Yelena GC- so it proves the abuse.
So?

So? Any woman who use a man as a mule to get in the US and than climes that she was abused can get her GC, she maybe will not get the man's apartment and money, but she will get the desired GC.   :)

Quote
so it proves the abuse.

I already posted the link to the story of man who spent 4 months in jail, lost his apartment and job, because the police ignored his alibi... but if a man doesn't have any alibi he will be marked for the rest of his life.

The immigration system in US is also not perfect as VAWA is not perfect as well.

Quote
In Immigration court Avi is not allowed to present his side
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 01, 2011, 10:56:43 PM
If you haven't seen it yet I strongly recommend the documentary film by Errol Morris "The Thin Blue Line".

Quote
The Thin Blue Line is a 1988 documentary film about Randall Dale Adams, a man convicted and sentenced to die for a murder he did not commit. Adams' case was reviewed and he was released from prison approximately a year after the film's release.

Those that are not naive know that our courts find many innocent people guilty. Especially so when the charge is domestic abuse. The judge hears both sides of the story unlike Immigration Services. If one man who is found innocent and who latter does something towards his wife that attracts public attention the judge knows his career might be ruined. After all he gets his job by popular election. You can figure the rest.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 02, 2011, 12:36:45 AM
So what exactly "a witch hunt" you are talking about?

When folks are quick to hand a verdict simply based on one version of the story...LOL, it's a witch hunt. Just like when they use to burn women for charges of witchcraft based solely on unsubstantiated allegations, hunches or rumors.

Maxx need to get the other side of the story and add it to his video. He knows he can do that. It should be pretty easy. Or at least, get Mike or this gal the link for this thread. That should be pretty interesting...

Without the other side of the story, it's a witch hunt  ;)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 01:07:23 AM
I tried and tried and then lost contact with them. They may have moved. I also had this problem with the parents-in-law and husband of a RW whom I filmed. Another Yelena. Couldn't get his side. Interesting story there that I will post later. I guess we can call that one a warlock hunt  ;D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 09:05:56 AM
When folks are quick to hand a verdict simply based on one version of the story...LOL, it's a witch hunt.

Without the other side of the story, it's a witch hunt  ;)


That's what exactly an immigration court does without other side of the story. "A witch hunt" is also when the police ignores a fact that a man was fiscally attacked by a woman or ignores his alibi because his gender is male. "A witch hunt" is when a woman simply points her finger at man screaming "bloody abuser" and nightmare begins for him. Male doctors afraid to be alone with their female patient in the office because it can cost them their medical career if a female decides it will be a good opportunity to get some money.

If Yelena and her lover Michael knew and felt there was not nothing wrong in what they did they would not miss such opportunity as to participate in the documentary and present their side of the story when they were offered. But I doubt they will drop a word after watching the documentary published on youtube  ;)

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 10:27:18 AM
USCIS works based on documents.
So, what did Ivy really loose because of the case? I mean money or something.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 10:55:23 AM
USCIS works based on documents.
So, what did Ivy really loose because of the case? I mean money or something.

I believe it was about eighty thousand dollars in legal costs. He also lost his good high paying job due to the stress he was going through. He also lost his health when he got cancer. As his first wife said "He was healthy all his life". But who knows if one is connected to another.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 02, 2011, 11:10:48 AM
That's what exactly an immigration court does without other side of the story. "A witch hunt" is also when the police ignores a fact that a man was fiscally attacked by a woman or ignores his alibi because his gender is male. "A witch hunt" is when a woman simply points her finger at man screaming "bloody abuser" and nightmare begins for him. Male doctors afraid to be alone with their female patient in the office because it can cost them their medical career if a female decides it will be a good opportunity to get some money.

LOL, I didn't realized you were in the room the day the cops arrested Avi. How come you're not on Maxx's video?

Quote
If Yelena and her lover Michael knew and felt there was not nothing wrong in what they did they would not miss such opportunity as to participate in the documentary and present their side of the story when they were offered. But I doubt they will drop a word after watching the documentary published on youtube  ;)

Assuming (:o) Maxx did actually try. Even once...apprehensively, half-heartedly, grudgingly, uninspiringly... nah...I don't think he even did.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JR on January 02, 2011, 11:26:27 AM
If Avi had just given the Biotch the GC not only would he have saved himself a lot of grief but he would have saved us the current drivel )))

Just based upon what the investigators found I believe Avi's side of the story is more than likely closest to the truth. As far as contact the other side: why wouldn't he? There's drama a-pleny in that and drama sells.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 11:42:08 AM
GQ, I will not be pulled into a fight. I genuinely like you and it hurts when we do. Never again.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 02, 2011, 11:56:00 AM
GQ, I will not be pulled into a fight. I genuinely like you and it hurts when we do. Never again.

Huh? Fight? You asked me to be a skeptic and a critic in this very thread...

Quote from: Maxx2
I appreciate your scepticism. That is your taking a deep critical look at these tales of woe. Scepticism keeps things honest and ourselves as well. In the near future I plan to release more films on this subject right here on RWD. I would appreciate very much your scepticism of the subjects of these films. They need a critic. Could you do that for me?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 12:01:01 PM
Huh? Fight? You asked me to be a skeptic and a critic in this very thread...


Yes you are right. I have posted on another thread a interesting video. Please be a skeptic and critic on that one too. She seems so sweet and I have no idea why her husband was so dissatisfied with her. After the video I wished her luck. I am really a softy when it comes to Russian women.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 12:02:59 PM
LOL, I didn't realized you were in the room the day the cops arrested Avi. How come you're not on Maxx's video?

LOL GQBlues. Was you in the room the day cops arrested Avi? So tell us why cops ignored Avi's lip injury?

According to your I would say ridiculous assumption I have to be arrested and charged charged with physical abuse because after several years I still can show exact place where some people I know had their scars and scratches and I even tell the size and form  :D

Quote
Assuming (:o) Maxx did actually try. Even once...apprehensively, half-heartedly, grudgingly, uninspiringly... nah...I don't think he even did.


Why assuming? For example I don't have a reason don't trust Maxx, or Ilana with whom Avi had a family for 30 years and they are still good friends, or Avi's son, or Zoya.  But yes, I have a difficult time and scepticism to trust Yelena watching the video taken by an investigator and reading the letter, the civil court did actually the same on the base of the evidence.

The immigration court is one sided court plus

Quote
VAWA allows certain spouses, children and parents of U.S. citizens and permanent residents (green card holders) to file a petition for themselves without the abusers’ knowledge. This will allow you to seek both safety and independence from the abuser. The provisions of VAWA apply equally to women and men. Your abuser will not be notified that you have filed for immigration benefits under VAWA.

one of the requirements for eligibility are: # You have resided with your spouse. # You are a person of good moral character. The immigration court doesn't take into consideration the civil court's resolution and evidence and witnesses that an "abused" spouse was cheating and was not living with his "abusive" spouse but with a lover. Yes, I have problem with one sided court.

GQBlues, yes we have different opinions and we look at the things from different aspects. For you such evidence as love correspondence, reports and videos from investigators, and statements by witnesses doesn't play so much role. But it plays significant role in the civil court and I also will take this evidence it into consideration.  

Yes, It would be interesting to hear Yelena and Mikael's side of the story looking right into their eyes and ask them about their correspondence regarding "Avi should be easy to fool"  :)

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 02, 2011, 12:18:02 PM
Olga,

You should've spared yourself that tediously long post. It still didn't change the fact you only have ONE version/side of this story to work with to come remotely close to any type of conclusion.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 12:38:23 PM


Olga I agree with what you are saying to GQ above but it is a waste of time. I have seen threads closed on account of page after page of debate. I had it done to my first big thread by Ellen, I believe Doll (or someone like her) and some guy who was fighting with them. Finally a moderator locked the thread. I believe this was Ellen's intention all along. She did not like the subject. She is a clever one.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 01:01:35 PM
Olga,
It still didn't change the fact you only have ONE version/side of this story to work with to come remotely close to any type of conclusion.

Because I have my reasons for it. If marital infidelity was not involved and there was not any witness and evidence I would have different opinion.  ;)

When I read the stories on RW forums I don't have reasons not to believe but that stories also are one sided stories  ;)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 01:04:53 PM
I believe it was about eighty thousand dollars in legal costs. He also lost his good high paying job due to the stress he was going through. He also lost his health when he got cancer. As his first wife said "He was healthy all his life". But who knows if one is connected to another.
What did he pay for?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Lily on January 02, 2011, 01:05:40 PM
I believe it was about eighty thousand dollars in legal costs. He also lost his good high paying job due to the stress he was going through. He also lost his health when he got cancer. As his first wife said "He was healthy all his life". But who knows if one is connected to another.

About 80 k in legal costs? Were they the court fees, or what particular type of expenses?

Assuming that Avi is a respondent, not plaintiff, he was not about to pay any court filing fees. Or am I wrong?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Jumper on January 02, 2011, 01:09:48 PM
GQ-

I agree it is one sided presentation and certainly Zoyas would be biased.

an juror would recognize that as well ,but still look over the evidence  produced.


This isn't a court of law?
 Maxx simply was asking what people think


certainly it's  a valid point that only one side is told ,and Maxx asked for critique  


I would say given no DNA tests , or more telling vids would be found ,

what people think ,with what IS presented, if they are objective would include healthy skepticism ,
 but not so much to totally ignore Occums razor?


since it isnt  an actual court , (i'd review things far differently if in that position)
occums razor seems best?

Avi seems a bit of an old  lonely fool,who may have deluded himself a bit ,
but  apparently (yes assumptions exists based on the data provided) was  used by a women involved with another man.

I wouldn't rule that way in court,as other constraints are in place,  but it is what i thinkin answering maxxs question.

Along the lines of a man can be  found innocent criminally, but found guilty civilly?

 
set aside devils advocate for a moment?

You really think something different happened ?  if so, what?

this was maxx's question.

you cant cop out and say not enough evidence to think what happened, going on whats provided ,
we are all constrained to what is here.
so what do you (and Doll ) think?


Doll ,even if it IS a witch hunt ,
do you think she did none of the implied ,and was only an innocent immigrant who simply left her hubby ,
for  a new man?

i wouldn't argue the point ,it could be the case.. !
 just like maxx , i'm asking what you think.





Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 01:16:07 PM
Lily, I guess the investigator's payment is the major expense. Well, he wanted it.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 01:16:39 PM
AJ, you are RWD's greatest mind. Thank you.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 01:29:40 PM
What we thought we said 6 pages ago :D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 02, 2011, 01:36:00 PM
AJ-

No matter how large the canvass you roll in, when you only have one color to paint it with, you will have only one color to focus on. You will lack contrast, and more importantly, balance. You can tilt, turn, roll that canvas anyway you see fit - it's still the same single colored canvas it had always been, and always will be.

As for...

i wouldn't argue the point ,it could be the case.. !  just like maxx , i'm asking what you think.

I did, AJ. See response #s 22, 66, and more notably #s 85 & 87.

Then Olga tried to breed subsets of speculations and hypothesis within the limits of this one-sided story. Until Maxx spends equal time to present the other side...it's a witch hunt, that's all it is.

Now, unless this was the prime objective of these types of thread to begin with, then please, I'll sit back and witness these folks grab torches for the festivites.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 01:40:00 PM

Then Olga tried to breed subsets of speculations and hypothesis within the limits of this one-sided story.

GQBlues, correspondence and video by investigator is not speculations and hypothesis but evidence that was also taken by the court and statements by witnesses as well  ;D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 01:50:25 PM
About 80 k in legal costs? Were they the court fees, or what particular type of expenses?

Assuming that Avi is a respondent, not plaintiff, he was not about to pay any court filing fees. Or am I wrong?

He side pays their own court lawyer's fees. At about $250 an hour they add up.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 01:59:04 PM
While we are on the subject of both sides could you please tell us GQ why you are so passionate about this subject?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 01:59:36 PM
GQBlues, correspondence and video by investigator is not speculations and hypothesis but evidence that was also taken by the court and statements by witnesses as well  ;D
Not sure but I've heard that e-mails can no be prove because they can be easily "made up".
It is just technology.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 02:03:18 PM
He side pays their own court lawyer's fees. At about $250 an hour they add up.
$250 an hour when? At the court?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 02:14:56 PM
Not sure but I've heard that e-mails can no be prove because they can be easily "made up".
It is just technology.


Yes, that's true and some email correspondence can not be used in the court. There is specific rules on using email correspondence. But photos, videos and and investigator's reports are consider to be evidence.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 02:20:10 PM
$250 an hour when? At the court?

an example on a law firm's fees
http://www.manchanda-law.com/Contact.html
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 02:25:04 PM
BTW I forgot- why did he start the investigation? If he wanted a divorce he would be granted it anyway.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 02:26:21 PM
$250 an hour when? At the court?

The cost is the cost of hiring your own attorney. I have heard of people spending hundreds of thousands of dollars paying for an attorney to defend them from women/men who have brought charges against them. Avi $80,000, Bill $100,000, Natasha $300,000 and James between 400 and 500 thousand dollars. Usually it is much less. The expensive cases is where the woman has a pro bono attorney (works for free) or on a contingency fee and the accused is being sued and has a lot of assets. Most people do not hear about these cases because there is a court ordered gag order not to talk about them.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 02:35:41 PM
BTW I forgot- why did he start the investigation? If he wanted a divorce he would be granted it anyway.

Good question. He wanted a non contested divorce. Having absolute proof of her adultery would help him if he had to go to court. He wanted her to know this. He was hoping he didn't have to go to court. It cost money many thousands of dollars. He just wanted her to pack up her things and go. But there was the issue of her getting her green card and that is why she couldn't have a "peaceable divorce".
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 02:44:01 PM
Good question. He wanted a non contested divorce. Having absolute proof of her adultery would help him if he had to go to court. He wanted her to know this. He was hoping he didn't have to go to court. It cost money many thousands of dollars. He just wanted her to pack up her things and go. But there was the issue of her getting her green card and that is why she couldn't have a "peaceable divorce".
Was he going to save money by having a non contested divorce? Seems like there was no property on Yelena's name as well as money on the account (which can be removed by 2 clicks of the mouse)))
He had nothing to loose, I mean the property division.
He would be granted the divorce anyway.
What state is it?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 02:50:39 PM
(just between us- if my husband started any investigation of this type- I would be infuriated. Not sure if all the lips stay "untouched")))))))))))))))))))))
Just kidding (not)  :D :D :D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 02:54:05 PM
(just between us- if my husband started any investigation of this type- I would be infuriated. Not sure if all the lips stay "untouched")))))))))))))))))))))
Just kidding (not)  :D :D :D

Are you kidding about "being  infuriated" or "not sure if all the lips stay "untouched", or both?  :D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 02:57:57 PM
Are you kidding about "being  infuriated" or "not sure if all the lips stay "untouched", or both?  :D
The latter
(http://s13.rimg.info/bf1b47a6111d8f7e52ce7b0374a69401.gif) (http://smajliki.ru/smilie-849759303.html)
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 03:08:32 PM

He had nothing to loose, I mean the property division.
He would be granted the divorce anyway.
What state is it?

Last question first:  Virginia.
Not likely he would have to pay much in property division on account of such a brief marraige. What he was concerned about was the costs he would have to pay to his attorney for his services. Every divorce case that goes to court to be contested usually costs at least $10,000 to pay one's own attorney for his services. There are other costs as well. Avi had experience in avoiding all these costs with the divorce with his first wife. They divorced "peaceably" and remained friends. Avi wanted the same with Yelena however he was not going to help her get a green card. That is where the problem came in for him.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 03:13:01 PM
The latter

I'm also not a violent person.  But I guess I would be infuriated by an investigation organized my partner only in a case if I had to hide something shameful and "wrong doing" :D
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 03:28:33 PM
I'm also not a violent person.  But I guess I would be infuriated by an investigation organized my partner only in a case if I had to hide something shameful and "wrong doing" :D
I would be mad in both cases. This is just human nature.
Yes, Maxx, I've read the Virginia divorce law- Ivy's was right in "proving the adultery".
So, this 30 minutes court hearing happen before or after DVC ? I mean were there 2 "courts"?
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 02, 2011, 03:34:33 PM
I would be mad in both cases. This is just human nature.
Yes, Maxx, I've read the Virginia divorce law- Ivy's was right in "proving the adultery".
So, this 30 minutes court hearing happen before or after DVC ? I mean were there 2 "courts"?

Uncertain what you mean. Also I might not have every answer. I am not familiar with Virgina court protocol.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JR on January 02, 2011, 03:39:53 PM
(just between us- if my husband started any investigation of this type- I would be infuriated. Not sure if all the lips stay "untouched")))))))))))))))))))))
Just kidding (not)  :D :D :D

Would you be infuriated if you were cheating on your husband even before marriage the way Avi's wife was?

She probably gave him ample clues as to the cheating, hence the investigations.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Doll on January 02, 2011, 04:21:49 PM
Would you be infuriated if you were cheating on your husband even before marriage the way Avi's wife was?

She probably gave him ample clues as to the cheating, hence the investigations.
I mean that there is always some "hot discussion" when one spouse tells the other one about this sort of investigation.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 02, 2011, 04:56:36 PM
I would be mad in both cases. This is just human nature.


Human nature is different from person to person  :)

I would not be mad, but I of course would ask and have a talk with my partner if there was something about me that bothered him so much.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: JR on January 03, 2011, 12:58:18 PM
I mean that there is always some "hot discussion" when one spouse tells the other one about this sort of investigation.



Under these conditions the investigations were completely warranted and justified. Yes, there would be a hot discussion: "How DARE you have me investigated while I am cheating on you!"
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: GQBlues on January 03, 2011, 06:25:33 PM
GQBlues, correspondence and video by investigator is not speculations and hypothesis but evidence that was also taken by the court and statements by witnesses as well  ;D

OlgaH-

Ironically enough, Maxx himself provided a video in this thread as to why it is so critical to harness and present the other side of the story to arrive to some semblance of contrast, balance and ultimately, the truth...

[youtube=425,350]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ&feature=related[/youtube]

:P
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: OlgaH on January 03, 2011, 06:55:37 PM
OlgaH-

Ironically enough, Maxx himself provided a video in this thread as to why it is so critical to harness and present the other side of the story to arrive to some semblance of contrast, balance and ultimately, the truth...

:P


We need to send your post and Maxx's video to the Immigration court  :P

As we already know the Civil court heard two sides and made its decision   ;)  : Yelena was refused additional money she wanted, she was ordered to leave Avi's apartment, and even a prenuptial agreement was annulled.

I agree it would be interesting to hear from Yelena why she lost in the Civil court.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Maxx2 on January 03, 2011, 08:47:34 PM

Does anyone know when Daveman will get back? I heard he is in Moscow and will be offline for a while.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: SANDRO43 on January 04, 2011, 06:57:08 AM
Does anyone know when Daveman will get back? I heard he is in Moscow and will be offline for a while.
IIRC, he was planning to stay 3 months 'over there'.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Faux Pas on January 04, 2011, 02:11:01 PM
IIRC, he was planning to stay 3 months 'over there'.

I don't recall the duration but, it was a lengthy one albeit to Ukraine IIRC to visit the fair Maiden
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: Rubicon on January 04, 2011, 06:47:04 PM
OlgaH-

Ironically enough, Maxx himself provided a video in this thread as to why it is so critical to harness and present the other side of the story to arrive to some semblance of contrast, balance and ultimately, the truth...

:P


the truth is that Yelena lost in civil court, and she has lost here in the court of public opinion, by her decision not to be interviewed by Maxx, since she knew that she was guilty of fraud and infidelity.  the score is 2 to 0 in favor of Avi.  the green card hearing is nothing but a kangaroo court since they do not let the man testify or present evidence.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: mroz87 on October 26, 2014, 07:09:42 AM
This thread is a bit dated but still, thank you for putting it sticky. Everyone who decides to go down the FSU path must see this. I read almost all posts from start to finish. I remember the discussion of Avi being a native Russian speaker and even then there is supposedly no red flag.

Well, I believe there is at least one red flag. A BIG one! Yelena knew of Avi's failing business, and claimed to be willing to do anything including scrubbing toilet to help the family finances. Yet in the final video with Avi, he said Yelena did not know English but knew about the 'system' in US. How would a woman who claimed to be willing to do anything to help his future husband, moving to his country and not even bother to learn a little of the local language? This should be an obvious red flag! Avi was too lonely and desperate to see it.

Also I recall a poster questioning why some of the interviewees lack fluency in English. This just shows how dysfunctional the western world is. You can migrate, but you can't assimilate. Everyone is closeted thereby lacking any genuine opportunity of mingling with local native speakers. Even Avi could not find a local Russian American woman, and had to resort to agencies!

Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: mroz87 on October 26, 2014, 07:14:29 AM
Another note: Maxx spent a lot of hours and effort to make the videos, yet the view count is fairly small. I would love this to have more audiences. The title of this thread should be a bit more catchy, so it shows up when people are searching about 'VAWA' in google. Just my 2 cents.
Title: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: yaricksl on July 13, 2015, 04:15:23 PM
Do you really think he is a mediocre or do you think he is an asset to the team?
Title: Re: So what do you think? "Avi's story"
Post by: iolanik on June 04, 2019, 09:23:20 AM
I dont know what this story is about or what the video is since it didnt load or work for me but I already can guess what the ending of the story is and how it started. Same old story since 2000 when I started this process....things never change nor do RWs