FSU women

[Elen]

To my mind it's partly of national character though:? (in case with Ukrainins at least. As for Moldovans then I just can't say too much about them - had not an oppurtunity to deal with them)

Well Ukrainians otherwise to Russians for example were always more "occupied" with an idea of better life style - more "greedy" for money, more pushing, more ready to do something for to make life better. While Russians are lying on a stove enjoying with or complaing about what they have( never mind how much) Ukrainians would do something - like get a new job, or move into other land, or cheat and sleal:P ( BTW Ukrainian males gave the highest % of crime in Moscow) or go into prostitution. - all ways are fine for gaining money.

GENERALISATION!!!:D

Ohters nations of FSU eighter are in not such bad conditions or have too strong morals for their women (like in Asia republics or in the Caucasus)

[Admin]

There aremore than200 nations in FSU but when talks are started about prostitution in Moscowthey always are going roundgirls from Moldova and Ukraine ( not from Baltic republics which we "love" such badly , not from Georgia or Asian republics where things are mucn more bad butexactly from Moldova and Ukraine)

Let try to see in that statistic not only "the superiority complex of several RW members from Moscow":P

Yes Elen, it is no secret that I think you are an arrogant elitist - often snubbing other nationalities, presumably in the attempt to feel better about yourself - or whatever.

As Bruno has pointed out to you - there are at least several explanations for the condition you describe - if it is even factual, which I highly doubt.

For example, Moscow has some millions of residents. In the FSU, which city comes close to that? Kyiv has about 3 million. What other city in the FSU has anything close to the - what is it now, 10 or 12 million inhabitants of Moscow?

Given the size of the city, which FSU countries physically lie closest to Moscow? Ukraine, Moldova and Belarus are reasonably close in proximity. Georgia and the Stans are VERY far away. The Baltics have always hated their Russian oppressors, so there is a cultural thing there.

Have you given ANY consideration to the simple fact of geography playing a part in your elitist claims?

Reference: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/middle_east_and_asia/asia_ref04.jpg

BTW - where do you come up with the claim of "more than200 nations in FSU"? I don't believe you are correct - but that is no great surprise.

- Dan

[Elen]

Well where are Belarussian prostitutes in your theory and at Moscow roads?

Btw there was a LOT of refugees in Moscow from such republics as Armenia, Azerbaijan, the said Georgia and all Asia - but Oops - not such many prostitutions among their women - wonder why.

BTW - where do you come up with the claim of "more than 200 nations in FSU"? I don't believe you are correct - but that is no great surprise.

too many or too little?? Because as according to the last general census Russia has 176 nationalities So I took  liberty to add 24 for all others FSU countries. So how much I was out from truth you are aware about with no doubts  ?

[Bruce]

"Armenia, Azerbaijan, the said Georgia" - yeesh ie. most of them are ugly as sin,  thats why.

[Elen]

or yeah  as if you saw too many of them ( or such familar with a "beauty" of Ukrainians prostitutions in Moscow to make comparision)

[KenC]

Bruce,

TFF!:D

KenC

[philb]

Elen, as Bruno pointed out, there are a lot of Russian prostitutes in Belgium and throughout Western Europe.  Must have something to do with national character.  Not.  Prostitution has always been mostly about simple economics. 

You are not the first to make such prejudicial statements.  You are merely echoing what has been spoken by ignorant people throughout the ages.  To hear this from such a well educated Moscovite....  I need not say anymore.

[andrewfi]

As Phil says, hookers follow the money. Helsinki has quite a population of Russians, some coming for the weekend, some for much longer. Some appear to have been run by Russian embassy staff, to the chagrin of the ambassador.

There are some from Estonia and some from Ukraine, but the girls from Estonia are usually ethnic Russian.

In Estonia many girls come from Russia and some from Ukraine, even, I have met Moldavians, although they seem to like Italy better.

This is not about breeding, or culture, There is a reason that Russian prostitutes are referred to in the general as 'Natashas'. It is because many Russian women are poor, or want better, so they follow the money. Moldavians and Ukrainians go to Russia because there is more money than Ukraine and Moldova. Russians go west becasue they follow the money. Just like the MOB business.

Hookers in Moscoow and Saint Petersburg are often Russians, more so in Saint Petersburg and often students, so not stupid girls.

What do many women from the FSU have in common? A perception (rapidly changing) that their lives will not improve, so many, many of these women sell themselves. Some to Americans and Europeans in marriage, some to the same people for a much shorter term.

[Shadow]

Elen is not alone in her observations of the Ukrainians in Moscow. The woman I am trying to obtain an import license for has the same views on Ukrainian people.

Having been to Kiev I wondered about the nature of these views, as Ukrainians in their own country do not seem to be agressive or criminal. Then I realised the origin is something we have in many countries, be it with different nationalities.

The Ukrainians in Moscow are the ones who were seeking a better life outside Ukraine. As htese were the people wiht less chances in their home country, less educated and more adventurous, they will go to the place where they think they can get the best chance of a good life. While some of them may succeed others will get in to trouble, and cause a negative view of the whole population.

In France, Belgium and Holland these people are Moroccan. Bruno will agree here. In England they are Pakistani. In the USA they are called Mexicans and other Latino's. And yes, in Moscow this group are the Ukrainians.

As far as the FSU women I have met and corresponded with I believe there are not that many differences. But I believe there are not that many differences between women worldwide.

 

[philb]

What do many women from the FSU have in common? A perception (rapidly changing) that their lives will not improve, so many, many of these women sell themselves. Some to Americans and Europeans in marriage, some to the same people for a much shorter term.

 

Yeah, there are more than a few similarities between the MOB industry, along with everyone who participates, and prostitution.  I am not saying it is the same, just some similarities.

[andrewfi]

It would be too unPC to suggest they were the same, but even a casual glance can recognise the crossovers!

[Elen]

Elen, as Bruno pointed out, there are a lot of Russian prostitutes in Belgium and throughout Western Europe.  Must have something to do with national character.  Not.  Prostitution has always been mostly about simple economics. 

You are not the first to make such prejudicial statements.  You are merely echoing what has been spoken by ignorant people throughout the ages.  To hear this from such a well educated Moscovite....  I need not say anymore.

 If people say the same through the ages then they are .. ignorant Yes! Right!

As for Bruno then I do know he is a big specialist in Russian prostitutions and for sure checked all passports of those girls.

Anyway Moldovans and Ukraininas earned such reputation in Russia among all nationalities of FSU You can ignore that, you can look for excuses or explanations (like all others are just ugly) but that would change nothing - the opinion would stay the same here.


 I finished with that issiue and shall take a pleasure to watch how you will discuss a topic - "MOB market is the same to prostitutions"

[corncrowe]

As for Bruno then I do know he is a big specialist in Russian prostitutions and for sure checked all passports of those girls.

hmmm....was that a compliment??

[Bruno]

All is more simple... 

Pim's need to control hooker... this is more easy in a foreign country, that in the origine country of woman... 

For these who make this freely, it is better make this enough far from his living place... 2 of 3 year work and they are able to go home with a clean reputation... they can say that they have work like cleaning woman ... 

So, in the previous link and quotek that i have post, the majority of hooker in Estonia are russian ( 83% )... far from home and from the eyes of relative and family... Yep, i can see the superiority of Russian on Ukrainian... it is a numeric superiority in hooker in other country...

Peewee... only in moscow, you have around 100000 hooker... and about USA :

As the most current case in point, over the past decade, 10,000s of our women and children have been trafficked abroad for prostitution. Around Moscow, we have over 100,000 women and girls in prostitution. We estimate that 70% have been trafficked from other cities and towns in Russia and former Soviet republics. In Moscow and all over Russia, we have not been able to combat this problem because we don't have a law against the trafficking of women and our laws against pimping and procuring for prostitution are very weak.

Now, the legislature has drafted an excellent anti-trafficking law and proposed revisions to the criminal code that will make pimping a major crime. Passing these new laws will give us weapons to fight the trafficking and pimps that cause so much harm to our women and children and undermine the morals and values of our society.

But now we find ourselves under pressure from United States government funded "harm reduction" projects that distribute condoms and sex education materials that aim to reduce HIV/AIDS among drug addicted prostitutes, while lobbying in favor of the legalized prostitution. They print materials for prostitutes that are distributed throughout Moscow schools, institutes and orphanages with the effect of encouraging young women to choose prostitution as a career. We find this morally unconscionable.

Is this American foreign policy? Isn't it hypocritical for your president to speak out against human trafficking and prostitution while funding organizations around the world that promote the exact opposite; organizations lobbying within the Russian government to undermine strong anti-trafficking legislation and those who oppose legalized prostitution?

http://www.religionandpolicy.org/show.php?p=1.1.840

[KenC]

What Elen is expressing is just geographical prejudice, much the same as we have here in America.  The only difference is that she is not as PC as we try to be.  Think about the perceptions we have here of people from West Virginia, Kentucky, Arkansas or for that matter, New York, New Jersey and California.  Of course your perception is almost always based on where you live.  As most Russians believer that Moscow is the center of the universe, any place else, is surely a step down (especially to a Muscovite).

One thing the newbies can learn from this discussion is that your RW is sure to come with her own set of prejudices.  My experience with RW has shown that they usually are a lot more outspoken about their prejudices than we Americans are accustomed to.

KenC

[Bruno]

As for Bruno then I do know he is a big specialist in Russian prostitutions and for sure checked all passports of those girls.

Elen, i am not a specialist in Russian prostitution... if it was true, i was not working hard like gardener...

Only, we have begin speak about this and i have search information... i have find a lot of this for several country but strange enough, no official statistic of prostitution from Russia, like russia have not these problem...

About check passport, it is not my work but these of our police...

[Elen]

Your Western sourses of information very often don't bother themselves to separate Russian speaking prostitutes by nationalities. - they all Russians for them.

OK I said I finished with this topic.

Where are the other ladies like Elen? Is there an english forum full of them out there somewhere?

BTW I think this one is great , but I like to hear from people that live there for certian topics.........

[Elen]

You see they managed to scare out ALL others:D I left alone because I's TOO arrogant Moskovite for to be scared by insults somebody at this forum used to throw at RW when they hear another to their own opinion:P

[Bruno]

Where are the other ladies like Elen? Is there an english forum full of them out there somewhere?

Right, the few who was living in Russia are away except our charming Elen... about english forum with russian woman, i know only one, LV, http://forum.lillavilla.com/ ... a very little communauty, around 60 members with both western man or russian woman... you can post you specifique question in these forum... if you don't receive the reply you wish, you can maybe ask the help of some russian woman for post your question on russian forum...

 

I just want to get a sense of national character.......I think it would be benificial to see a few Ukrainain/Russian/Moldvians fight it out (or do they get along? I just don't know) to see how they think/are different.

But I think that most of them work and don't have time to post, and the ones who don't work don't have a computer.

[Bruno]

I just want to get a sense of national character.......I think it would be benificial to see a few Ukrainain/Russian/Moldvians fight it out (or do they get along? I just don't know) to see how they think/are different.

But I think that most of them work and don't have time to post, and the ones who don't work don't have a computer.

Maybe you can send your questions to some of the people here... Dan, the administrator of these forum is married with a ukrainian woman... Kevin is married with a ukrainian and live in Ukraine... a other guy live in Estonia... Mischief is a Belarus woman married with American... Myself, i was married 5 year with a russian, my last girlfriend was from Ukraine and the new one from Belarus...

Take a little time for know people here and PM to these you think can help you... but a woman stay a woman... the differance between each country are very little... but maybe the "little" can make the difference between hapiness and hell...

For russian woman, download ( right clcik, save as ) the PDF book on my server at http://www.love-from-russia.be/book/BooksAboutRussianWomen.pdf ... this book is not from me but it is not a bad base... begin read from the page 3, the "village girl" ... with this, you will already able to see several difference between russian women herself... don't forget, russian is 11 time zone, very big and you can find a lot of different woman...

 

Thanks

[edit] I just realized though that I have read that ebook (different site) and been to that forum...lol

[PeeWee]

Thanks

[edit] I just realized though that I have read that ebook (different site) and been to that forum...lol

EYU...are you located in Washington State or Washington DC?

 

PeeWee   Washington State