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Author Topic: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas  (Read 21617 times)

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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #75 on: September 02, 2015, 11:13:55 PM »

Belvis pretty much said what I would have said. 


Fathertime!

Could you just quote the post/s you 'agree' with ...
Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2015, 12:35:15 AM »
ML, thanks. Yes, they are in the West, not on the Eastern front.

Thanks.
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2015, 12:37:38 AM »
Quote
Probably you're using the same kind of Internet articles with anonimous authors who have access to secret information. Well, may be not secret, but certainly with no links to official sources

Belvis, you really should get out and read more. I've posted the sources here previously, recently as a matter of fact.

So, are you saying that no Russian solders have been killed in Ukraine?
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Offline Belvis

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2015, 01:38:10 AM »
Belvis, you really should get out and read more. I've posted the sources here previously, recently as a matter of fact.

So, are you saying that no Russian solders have been killed in Ukraine?

I know your sources  :) I've just said the link I posted and your sources are of the same level.  I doubt you'll be able to show link to the published official documents where you pretend the info was taken from.
     Mendy, I suspect you do not read other posters, otherwise you would not ask such question. Though you can cite me to prove I was saying that no Russian solders have been killed in Ukraine. I said rather the opposite. OK, I could not resist :D
Nevertheless I'll answer. First, nobody except General Staff knows how many Russian soldiers in service were killed in Ukraine. I imagine how this statistics is reflected in official papers, you'll see no mention of Ukraine, and will not be able to  separate killed in Dagestan from killed in Ukraine.
Second, there are indirect sources to estimate the number, messages in social networks, inscriptions on the graves, rumors from locals near military bases, projections based on fraction of captured Russians among POWs. Confirmed number from these sources does not exceed 200.

Offline jone

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #79 on: September 03, 2015, 05:33:23 AM »
Sorry, Belvis,

But the more I read you, the more you sound like FSB. 

I have talked to many, many Russians.  This May I was in an area of Russia that contributed some of the troops that went to Ukraine. (Remember when you were disputing any troops going, trying to dissuade us from that?   We remember.)  While the bases included troops from many areas that were assembled there, many of the officers were local.  The specific numbers were never discussed, but the number of troops that didn't come back is common knowledge.

There is an active disinformation campaign.  You simply appear to be part of it.  I don't think you're drinking the Kool Aid.  I think you're making it.
Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats the hell out of card games.  - Robert Heinlein

Offline fathertime

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #80 on: September 03, 2015, 06:57:19 AM »
Could you just quote the post/s you 'agree' with ...


I could, but I'm not going to.  If there is something in particular you would like to discuss, in a direct way,  I'm game.   


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #81 on: September 03, 2015, 08:01:11 PM »
Quote
First, nobody except General Staff knows how many Russian soldiers in service were killed in Ukraine. I imagine how this statistics is reflected in official papers, you'll see no mention of Ukraine, and will not be able to  separate killed in Dagestan from killed in Ukraine.

Pardon me Belvis, but you are full of it. Now are you saying that perhaps as many as 2000 Russian soldiers were killed in Dagestan, in 2014?!
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Offline Belvis

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #82 on: September 04, 2015, 01:50:13 AM »
Pardon me Belvis, but you are full of it. Now are you saying that perhaps as many as 2000 Russian soldiers were killed in Dagestan, in 2014?!

No, I have pointed you how the official documents are compiled in Russian bureaucracy. It's the common troubles for journalists, they have no habit to work with primary sources.
OK, if you're interested in this issue I give the link to much more respectable Internet source than you used. Besides it's the liberal source so you may trust it even though their information does not support your expectations:
http://top.rbc.ru/politics/02/10/2014/542c0dcfcbb20f5d06c1d87a

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #83 on: September 04, 2015, 06:55:19 PM »
Nice try, Belvis, but you are either misled or lying.

RBC is no more liberal than a package of used condoms. They are controlled, as per Russian law, by Russian management.


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Offline Belvis

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #84 on: September 05, 2015, 01:32:12 AM »
RBC is no more liberal than a package of used condoms. They are controlled, as per Russian law, by Russian management.
OK, I got your point that only body controlled by west guys can be liberal. That's the reason your political friends in Russia are and will be losers at elections. Though I don't share your extremist position.
Basing on your views on RBC channel you're close to right radicals in Russian political spectrum, if you dismissed oligarch Prokhorov as owner of a package of used condoms.

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #85 on: September 05, 2015, 08:00:09 AM »
Prokhorov. Hmm, that is the friend of Putin who runs as his "liberal opposition" in elections. He doesn't campaign much, seldom goes on the road to promote his own party, but the Kremlin happily trots him out as an example of someone giving Putin a run for his money.

Belvis, I can respect their reports on troops in Ukraine, and they are one of the few outlets that will report on Navalny, for example. Other than that, do you see RBC as an active voice in opposing the government and United Russia in the news?

How many warnings has RBC received from the Kremlin for violating the rules on provocative reporting?

I did appreciate when they reported on conscripts being forced to sign contracts for "service abroad," but how many RBC reporters have been murdered under mysterious circumstances lately?
« Last Edit: September 05, 2015, 08:18:41 AM by mendeleyev »
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Offline alex330

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #86 on: September 05, 2015, 08:55:52 AM »
The Warthog at around a mile away made sure we just arrived to the party with the 30 mike mike. I've seen those things fly with one wing.

The Warthogs are so good at what they do that they are planning a comparison test between them and modern 5th gen F-35 fighters before they retire them.

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/08/air-force-will-test-f-35-against-10-not-until-2018/119867/

Online 2tallbill

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #87 on: September 05, 2015, 04:42:41 PM »
The Warthogs are so good at what they do that they are planning a comparison test between them and modern 5th gen F-35 fighters before they retire them.

http://www.defenseone.com/technology/2015/08/air-force-will-test-f-35-against-10-not-until-2018/119867/

Ukraine has some air power however, it's been grounded because of Russian
antiaircraft fire. There aren't any Donbass Freedom fighters who know how
to operate a modern antiaircraft system.

The A-10 warthogs are very, very susceptible to anti aircraft weapons such as the
Buk missile system and can only be used in situations where total air supremacy
exists.

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Offline Photo Guy

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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #89 on: September 28, 2015, 11:26:07 PM »
He has always indicated that would be okay, as long as those include Russian troops.
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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #90 on: September 29, 2015, 01:03:44 AM »

I could, but I'm not going to.  If there is something in particular you would like to discuss, in a direct way,  I'm game.   


Fathertime!

OK,

I'm interested in how you - if agreeing with Beavis - can support the notion that serving Russian personnel weren't killed in Ukraine, when their relatives know it...

We'll deal with the points one by one, if that's OK with you..

Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline cc3

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #91 on: September 29, 2015, 01:06:42 AM »
He has always indicated that would be okay, as long as those include Russian troops.
How can invaders be members of the "peacekeepers"?

Offline fathertime

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #92 on: September 29, 2015, 06:15:25 AM »
OK,

I'm interested in how you - if agreeing with Beavis - can support the notion that serving Russian personnel weren't killed in Ukraine, when their relatives know it...

We'll deal with the points one by one, if that's OK with you..


I would assume that it is correct that Russian personnel have been killed in Ukraine....I don't recall ever thinking differently, so I'm not sure why you would make that assumption.   That said, whatever you want to discuss, I'm game. 


Fathertime!   
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #93 on: September 29, 2015, 02:01:22 PM »
Quote
How can invaders be members of the "peacekeepers"?

Bingo. sadly it is typical Kremlin "logic" on display.

 
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Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #94 on: September 29, 2015, 02:39:00 PM »
Russia seems to do quite nicely when managing so-called "frozen conflicts" in her backyard:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2015/09/war-looms-south-caucasus-150914105543346.html?ref=yfp
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Offline Muzh

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #95 on: September 29, 2015, 03:06:03 PM »
To argue with a man who has renounced the use and authority of reason, and whose philosophy consists in holding humanity in contempt, is like administering medicine to the dead. Thomas Paine - The American Crisis 1776-1783

Offline BillyB

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #96 on: September 29, 2015, 08:16:42 PM »
Putin may accept peacekeeping force in Ukraine:



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Offline msmobyone

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #97 on: October 04, 2015, 03:43:16 AM »

I would assume that it is correct that Russian personnel have been killed in Ukraine....I don't recall ever thinking differently, so I'm not sure why you would make that assumption.   That said, whatever you want to discuss, I'm game. 


Fathertime!

As you clearly wrote you pretty much agreed with what Beavis has said - then why are you now suggesting otherwise ... hence the question.

Beavis is clearly back -peddling re direct Kremlin involvement - so I guess you must be, too  :deadhorse:

I think you like to have an argument - then when you encounter someone who clearly knows more - you try to sit on the fence...


Please excuse the Curmudgeon in my posts ..he will be cured by being reunited with his loved one ;)

Offline fathertime

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #98 on: October 04, 2015, 07:46:50 AM »
As you clearly wrote you pretty much agreed with what Beavis has said - then why are you now suggesting otherwise ... hence the question.

Beavis is clearly back -peddling re direct Kremlin involvement - so I guess you must be, too  :deadhorse:

I think you like to have an argument - then when you encounter someone who clearly knows more - you try to sit on the fence...


Hahah....I am not sitting on a  fence.  It sounds like you want me to argue a position I never took.  You ARE mistaken, the post I made was referring to the post directly above mine on Sept 2.    If you would like to discuss something specific, I'm game, and always have been.  Meanwhile you seem to be biting around the edges of nothing at this point. 


Here is the post that I would have said:
[/size]As you have observed, Russia can dictate. World is being ruled by precedent law. If one country can send military in another country  and destroy this country, then this case can be appiled for other countries too. May you meant we should establish the new world order where there is no exceptions and powers with exceptional rights?



If you can just formulate a point or position counter to the MANY I have made on this subject or another, then please do.  But I am not interested in discussing a position I never took, like you seem to be insisting I do. 


Fathertime!  [/size][/font]
I just happened to be browsing about the internet....

Offline mendeleyev

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Re: Send Peacekeepers Into Donbas
« Reply #99 on: October 04, 2015, 11:25:07 AM »
It seems that Russia has a secret fund, off budget, for certain military actions as in Syria, and Ukraine. Normal practice in large nations.

Some are suggesting that Syria will allow Putin to quietly pull back from direct involvement in Ukraine, giving him cover at home to divert attention elsewhere.

I do not think so. There is too much at stake for Putin; such as the threat of a true democracy on his doorstep, and the loss of Ukraine would doom the Eurasian Economic Union. I think that Obama sold Ukraine down the river; giving Putin elbow room to wrap up control of Ukraine in exchange for Russian cooperation in fighting ISIS, something that Obama believes is a bigger issue.

However, again Putin has outfoxed Obama, and thus Obama will be responsible for losing Ukraine, losing his endgame in Syria (not a bad thing in my opinion), and will watch helplessly as the Russian/Iranian axis control more of the Middle East.
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