Why Ukraine ?

[CaptB]

Hello folks,


Usually I don't ask any questions here. I usually only come to RWD to give an wedding anniversary update (13+).......answer a few posts.....then leave after the "young-uns" tell me I am old and my advice is outdated :-) Things have changed in the FSU dating scene........no doubt.......since I was married in 2003. The shift seems to be to Ukraine. I get that a certain type of guy here.......would go to Ukraine......because of a more desperate situation. More desperate to "leave" Ukraine because of the current economic/political situation. But for the guy (I put myself in this category) who has no trouble dating in the US.....the guy who is only adding the FSU as another alternative ........in his quest........................ Why are these folks no longer interested in.......Russia ? It is such an interesting place. The people are very nice (my experience from 8 trips). No they are not desperate........things are much better now........than 15 years ago. My wife was never looking to move from her country. I had hired her when I decided to visit her (very nice) city of Tver, Russia. We happened to hit it off......and nature took its course. I "NEVER"......wanted to save an RW. This was not the basis for any relationship......"I" wanted. Yet.....I get this is how the whole FSU/RW/UW thing began. For me.....it was always just another.......of many alternatives........not eventually becoming........the only way...........................


Why are "certain" guys no longer interested in..................RUSSIA. Just curious.


Thanks,


Capt B

[Slumba]

Visa issues, war in Ukraine which has turned some against Russia, I think mostly.

[Gator]

Maybe the RW are more particular, or just less motivated to move.  One of the reasons FSUW choose to move to America is to have improved economic opportunities.  The Russian economy, although not as strong as a few years ago, is still far better than Ukraine's economy. 

Are RW as interested in meeting foreign men as UW?    I just now searched on Elena's Models and the agency reports having profiles of 5900 RW and 4000 UW.   The interest is there to meet a worthy man. 

I suggest a man should try.   If indeed American men prefer to meet UW, that means less competition for RW.  It is a numbers game in the beginning. 

[Anotherkiwi]

Visa issues, war in Ukraine which has turned some against Russia, I think mostly.

Certainly the issue of visas (you need one for Russia, guys from the USA or EU don't need one for Ukraine) has been a factor in the past.  Just look at the number of posts from people who decided that it was too difficult to get a Russian visa, so went to Ukraine instead.

Nowadays the Russian invasion possibly has more influence.  Despite how much I love Russia, I won't ever consider going back until Putin has gone and the Russian troops have left Ukraine.

[tfcrew]

...and then sometimes, she just happens to be from Ukraine

How old would a lady now have to be to even vaguely remember the Soviet Union?
30-35?

[ML]

I get that a certain type of guy here.......would go to Ukraine......because of a more desperate situation. More desperate to "leave" Ukraine because of the current economic/political situation. But for the guy (I put myself in this category) who has no trouble dating in the US.....the guy who is only adding the FSU as another alternative ........in his quest........................ Why are these folks no longer interested in.......Russia ?

Despite your general acceptance here as a 'good guy,' you have now revealed yourself as a condescending bore of the highest level and insensitive to boot.

First, condescending to think that those guys who have no trouble with women go to Russia, and only the losers go to Ukraine.

You know perfectly well that one of main reasons that many western (at least USA) men prefer Ukraine over Russia is the visa situation, and this has been the case for around 10 years or so.

And now with the tension between Russia and the west, it makes no sense for a western man to get involved with a woman when at any point all diplomatic relations could be cut off, eliminating any chance for visas etc.

Second, the leadership of Russia with the full backing of its citizens have engaged in a terroristic war against Ukraine.  The leadership of Russia has the highest approval rating  of any in the world, indicating that ordinary Russians condone the tens of thousands of deaths that have been inflicted upon the Ukrainian people and that is continuing.

What sort of a man would want to marry a woman who approves of the invasion and killing of citizens of the invaded country?

Apparently you are such a man.

[Slumba]

Second, the leadership of Russia with the full backing of its citizens have engaged in a terroristic war against Ukraine.  The leadership of Russia has the highest approval rating  of any in the world, indicating that ordinary Russians condone the tens of thousands of deaths that have been inflicted upon the Ukrainian people and that is continuing.

What sort of a man would want to marry a woman who approves of the invasion and killing of citizens of the invaded country?

Apparently you are such a man.

Sticking my oar in ... while I agree that Russia has been the aggressor and Ukraine has suffered a great deal, I would point out:

1. The polls can be manufactured for the express purpose of demoralizing the opposition, same as the Crimea vote to join Russia, which many believe was not 80% or whatever was claimed.

2. None of the women we are likely to meet have any political power at all; some of them will be apolitical or not very political.

3. There are reform movements afoot in Russia but they have been terrorized and crushed, e.g. Nemtsov ; journalists have been silenced who write about these movements. 

That itself is evidence that the current Russian govt is oppressive towards its own citizens--for the precise reason that some do not believe that the current Russian govt is telling the truth and should be replaced.

[BillyB]

Why are these folks no longer interested in.......Russia ?

Could be some guys are afraid they will experience hostile attitudes from the natives. Even before the war, some guys seem to be afraid to go anywhere past Ukraine. If I were doing this again, I wouldn't be afraid to go to Russia for the right woman. My first two serious relations with women overseas happened to live in Uzbekistan and Libya.

[JayH]

Despite your general acceptance here as a 'good guy,' you have now revealed yourself as a condescending bore of the highest level and insensitive to boot.

First, condescending to think that those guys who have no trouble with women go to Russia, and only the losers go to Ukraine.

You know perfectly well that one of main reasons that many western (at least USA) men prefer Ukraine over Russia is the visa situation, and this has been the case for around 10 years or so.

And now with the tension between Russia and the west, it makes no sense for a western man to get involved with a woman when at any point all diplomatic relations could be cut off, eliminating any chance for visas etc.

Second, the leadership of Russia with the full backing of its citizens have engaged in a terroristic war against Ukraine.  The leadership of Russia has the highest approval rating  of any in the world, indicating that ordinary Russians condone the tens of thousands of deaths that have been inflicted upon the Ukrainian people and that is continuing.

What sort of a man would want to marry a woman who approves of the invasion and killing of citizens of the invaded country?

Apparently you are such a man.

Thankyou ML-well said.
 
The forum is littered with guys so insensitive to Ukraine's situation today-many have had enough exposure to learn but insist on keeping their heads up their a...s.
Dealing with the post above and his personal situation-- 15 years ago in the fsu "rescuing" someone may well have been an agenda item in Russia-- but today--it shows how out of touch with reality of today is by this poster. We see others writing that crap too.

On the "95 %" english understanding- maybe. I have met quite a few teaching "english" who were far more inept than their own students!!
It is outright statements of "truisms" by many that lead to many newbies remaining in a clueless vacumn.

[CaptB]

ML & JayH,


I have never implied at anytime on this forum that Russia is "premium".....and Ukraine...."second rate"......as it applies to searching for a partner. When I started this process over 15 years ago.....the majority of (American) men were searching in Russia.......a significant amount to Ukraine......and all other former Soviet satellite states having some degree of visitation. I am fully aware of the situation in Ukraine as well as Russia. My wife gives me updates from the news daily. My statement about Russia (please re-read my opening post). You are seeing something that is not there. I only ask "why" not many men were no longer visiting "Russia". The fact that "Putin" is in power at this time.....would have no bearing on whether or not I would choose to visit an RW. My wife would not have stopped immigration to the US......if Obama had been in power at the time. My relatives (in Russia).......do not hold against me.....the shenanigans......of "our" politicians. Like-wise I do not hold "Putin".......against my friends and relatives. For the record......Ukraine was on my short list as a place to visit. You read into my post......something that does not exist.


What maybe got some folks panties in a bunch.......was a completely separate issue.......the different types of folks......who search outside their respective countries for RW, UW, other FSUW, philipinos, brazilians, Australians, Americans, Brits, Canadians etc. etc. I will not apologize for stating that some men look outside their respective countries.......because they are "less experienced".....with women in general. Sometimes it easier to get attention from RW/UW......than from an AW (insert your country here). Other man have never had a "problem" getting the attention of women from their country. Those men look to other places as an "extension" of their geographical area.


You two gentlemen have misread my post. I am not nor ever have knocked Uraine. I only asked "why" so few are visiting Russia these days. The Russian people have nothing against the American people. In my fifteen years....and 8 visits....they have only been gracious and welcoming. I only blame politicians......not usually......the regular folks.


Hopefully this clears things up. When I have misunderstood a post I am always the first to apologize. My "true colors" have always remained intact......by those who "actually.........know me. The ball is in your court.


Capt B

[msmobyone]

What are these 'VISA' ISSUES ' excuses ? It is a doddle to get a visa for Russia - esp. when you don't have to go for a bio-metric scan and can get a three year visa.

As for not going - because it is supporting Putin ... Come  on, are those guys so principled they stayed away from Ukraine - when 'Yanu was locking up folks for political reasons ?

Should I abstain from going to America because you can only find two damaged goods as presidential candidates ?

My beloved isn't running her country and I don't envisage Russians being forbidden to visit / live in western countries - based on their nationality - any time soon.

Loads of bright, intelligent Russians want to LEAVE and have been leaving...according to the only Russian Duma member who voted against Crimea being accepted - and is now a wanted man - living in Ukraine - Ilya Ponomarev.

I have never encountered anti-western behaviour in Russia - well just two drunks - who were thrown out for being rude to a guest - in a bar.


If you like a woman from Belarus - would you shy away from visiting her - because the nation is run by President LukaShouldGo ?

Please less of the 'principled excuses' nonsense...   Seek your partner based on who she is - not which nation she lives in....






 

[southernX]

first let me state , when  I started I was looking for the best lady who could become my wife
not which country she may or may not live in around the globe
I had no notion of rescuing anyone ,
I had many successful dates here in Australia ,
I just happened to know a good aussie/Russian couple with a great marriage ,at the 10 year mark back
so it got my interest to know more about this adventure and it grew from there

for Australians visiting either Russia or Ukraine it  is the same  both require visas

i now have family in both Ukraine and Russia , and while i totally hate what putin has done and continues to do i understand enough to not hate Russians or their country

there are a complex set of reasons why current Russians follow or believe in putin

i firmly believe if i had of been raised there it is entirely possible i could and would do the same as them thinking it to be correct following putin

history will show otherwise imo

SX

[treadmilldude]

What are these 'VISA' ISSUES ' excuses ? It is a doddle to get a visa for Russia - esp. when you don't have to go for a bio-metric scan and can get a three year visa.

As for not going - because it is supporting Putin ... Come  on, are those guys so principled they stayed away from Ukraine - when 'Yanu was locking up folks for political reasons ?

Should I abstain from going to America because you can only find two damaged goods as presidential candidates ?

My beloved isn't running her country and I don't envisage Russians being forbidden to visit / live in western countries - based on their nationality - any time soon.

Loads of bright, intelligent Russians want to LEAVE and have been leaving...according to the only Russian Duma member who voted against Crimea being accepted - and is now a wanted man - living in Ukraine - Ilya Ponomarev.

I have never encountered anti-western behaviour in Russia - well just two drunks - who were thrown out for being rude to a guest - in a bar.


If you like a woman from Belarus - would you shy away from visiting her - because the nation is run by President LukaShouldGo ?   This is an excellent point Moby. And makes me think I excluded Minsk and a lot of wonderful women whom I have communicated with there, for the wrong reason. Really good point Moby.

Please less of the 'principled excuses' nonsense...   Seek your partner based on who she is - not which nation she lives in....

[ML]

You write:  You are seeing something that is not there. I only ask "why" not many men were no longer visiting "Russia".

Here are your words:

I get that a certain type of guy here.......would go to Ukraine (as opposed to Russia) ......because of a more desperate situation. More desperate to "leave" Ukraine because of the current economic/political situation.

So I and others are not 'seeing something that is not there.'

It is right there.

[mhr7]

Despite your general acceptance here as a 'good guy,' you have now revealed yourself as a condescending bore of the highest level and insensitive to boot.

First, condescending to think that those guys who have no trouble with women go to Russia, and only the losers go to Ukraine.

You know perfectly well that one of main reasons that many western (at least USA) men prefer Ukraine over Russia is the visa situation, and this has been the case for around 10 years or so.

And now with the tension between Russia and the west, it makes no sense for a western man to get involved with a woman when at any point all diplomatic relations could be cut off, eliminating any chance for visas etc.

Second, the leadership of Russia with the full backing of its citizens have engaged in a terroristic war against Ukraine.  The leadership of Russia has the highest approval rating  of any in the world, indicating that ordinary Russians condone the tens of thousands of deaths that have been inflicted upon the Ukrainian people and that is continuing.

What sort of a man would want to marry a woman who approves of the invasion and killing of citizens of the invaded country?

Apparently you are such a man.

I agree that most WM go to Ukraine because of the visa issue but Moby is spot-on, getting a Russian visa is very easy.

I don't see diplomatic channels ever being severed between the US and Russia, so that's a non issue.

Most Russians are against the invasion of Ukraine that's why it's illegal to discuss most aspects of anything happening there.

You'll have to look long and hard to find a woman who condones the killing of Ukrainians. Most people who discuss politics with me don't have much nice to say about the government. They know exactly how crooked and corrupt it is but also know there is little they can do about it. Most Russians I know are well aware how untrustworthy the media is.

I've never had any issues being an American here. In fact they treat me better than they treat each other.

I love Ukraine but I would choose to live in Russia and date a Russian woman over a Ukrainian any day. In my experience, Russians are friendly and decent people and much less likely to try to rip me off. Ukrainians (not all) turn into beggars and scam artists when they know you're a foreigner. Flame away if you want but that is my experience.

Maybe I'll choose Ukraine after they show me they can ACTUALLY change. Again, it's been 25 years and Ukraine is still going nowhere fast, unfortunately. 

[ML]

I don't see diplomatic channels ever being severed being between the US and Russia, so that's a non issue.

It is not a non-issue. Short of severing, there can be other lesser steps taken which will virtually eliminate the possibility of Russian people being able to enter the USA on any program.  And Russia always responds equally.  Anyone who doesn't recognize this possibility is fooling themselves.

Most Russians are against the invasion of Ukraine that's why it's illegal to discuss most aspects of anything happening there.

Totally untrue.  By a huge majority, Russians embrace the invasion of Ukraine.

You'll have to look long and hard to find a woman who condones the killing of Ukrainians. Most people who discuss politics with me don't have much nice to say about the government.

Surely you know that many will not tell you to your face their true feelings about this.


I've never had any issues being an American here. In fact they treat me better than they treat each other.

Of course.  Most people in most countries treat their immediate guests well, even as they despise the people from the guests' country in general.

In my experience, Russians are friendly and decent people and much less likely to try to rip me off. Ukrainians (not all) turn into beggars and scam artists when they know you're a foreigner.

Tell us your honest experience in what you were charged relative to locals when you visited museums, opera etc. in Ukraine compared to Russia.

Here in USA, spouse and I have had opposite experience you claim regarding Russians.

We have had to cut off socializing with several Russians.

They, each and every one, fully support all aggression that Russia has taken against Ukraine.  If Ukraine doesn't want its soldiers to be killed, they should just remove them from the East.  They laugh that Russia was able to take over Crimea without Ukraine firing a single shot.

Many have even repeated the nonsense that Putin spouted that Ukraine doesn't even deserve to be  a country.  Russia should take everything up  to Kyiv and let Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, et al take over the rest.

[Patagonie]

ML & JayH,


I have never implied at anytime on this forum that Russia is "premium".....and Ukraine...."second rate"......as it applies to searching for a partner. When I started this process over 15 years ago.....the majority of (American) men were searching in Russia.......a significant amount to Ukraine......and all other former Soviet satellite states having some degree of visitation. I am fully aware of the situation in Ukraine as well as Russia. My wife gives me updates from the news daily. My statement about Russia (please re-read my opening post). You are seeing something that is not there. I only ask "why" not many men were no longer visiting "Russia". The fact that "Putin" is in power at this time.....would have no bearing on whether or not I would choose to visit an RW. My wife would not have stopped immigration to the US......if Obama had been in power at the time. My relatives (in Russia).......do not hold against me.....the shenanigans......of "our" politicians. Like-wise I do not hold "Putin".......against my friends and relatives. For the record......Ukraine was on my short list as a place to visit. You read into my post......something that does not exist.


What maybe got some folks panties in a bunch.......was a completely separate issue.......the different types of folks......who search outside their respective countries for RW, UW, other FSUW, philipinos, brazilians, Australians, Americans, Brits, Canadians etc. etc. I will not apologize for stating that some men look outside their respective countries.......because they are "less experienced".....with women in general. Sometimes it easier to get attention from RW/UW......than from an AW (insert your country here). Other man have never had a "problem" getting the attention of women from their country. Those men look to other places as an "extension" of their geographical area.


You two gentlemen have misread my post. I am not nor ever have knocked Uraine. I only asked "why" so few are visiting Russia these days. The Russian people have nothing against the American people. In my fifteen years....and 8 visits....they have only been gracious and welcoming. I only blame politicians......not usually......the regular folks.


Hopefully this clears things up. When I have misunderstood a post I am always the first to apologize. My "true colors" have always remained intact......by those who "actually.........know me. The ball is in your court.


Capt B

Dear CptB
Unfortunately that what your first post implied and what i have also understood.
You played with the words easy on dating/seaching a desperate women and Russia/Ukraine associating loosers and Ukraine because of the non official war. 

Thank you to give us more details in your second post.
 

[Patagonie]

Here in USA, spouse and I have had opposite experience you claim regarding Russians.

We have had to cut off socializing with several Russians.

They, each and every one, fully support all aggression that Russia has taken against Ukraine.  If Ukraine doesn't want its soldiers to be killed, they should just remove them from the East.  They laugh that Russia was able to take over Crimea without Ukraine firing a single shot.

Many have even repeated the nonsense that Putin spouted that Ukraine doesn't even deserve to be  a country.  Russia should take everything up  to Kyiv and let Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, et al take over the rest.

If i were a pro, using the statistical approach, i would not advise my clients to search a RW wife.
Too risky.
THat's not only a question of visa. That's a question that you never know what Poutine will invent next month.
Some could consider that Ukraine is more in danger because of possible invasion (we have seen that the Crimea dating scene is no longer existing), but i fear more about the russian laws that can be promulgated in the future.
Russia is closing, Ukraine is opening.

As ML said you have two types of people, all over the world (ukrainian or russian nationalities). The ones who have barely understood what happened (Maidan, conquest of Donetsk, Lugansk and Crimea by Russia) and those who are stucked in the Kremlin propaganda. With the seconds the best is to avoid political topics.

Russia is also in economic recession, less or more that Ukraine? Don't know. 

[Boethius]

Russia's GDP per capita is higher than that of Ukraine, so its economy is better.


I don't think there is a danger of Russians not being able to leave the country.  I think that concern is overblown.

[ML]

I don't think there is a danger of Russians not being able to leave the country.  I think that concern is overblown.

I wasn't meaning ability to leave Russia.

I was referring to ability to get into USA, and maybe other countries.

[Boethius]

I can't see the US refusing a Russian spouse of an American a visa to the US.

[mhr7]

Here in USA, spouse and I have had opposite experience you claim regarding Russians.

We have had to cut off socializing with several Russians.

They, each and every one, fully support all aggression that Russia has taken against Ukraine.  If Ukraine doesn't want its soldiers to be killed, they should just remove them from the East.  They laugh that Russia was able to take over Crimea without Ukraine firing a single shot.

Many have even repeated the nonsense that Putin spouted that Ukraine doesn't even deserve to be  a country.  Russia should take everything up  to Kyiv and let Poland, Slovakia, Hungary, et al take over the rest.

I honestly don't see relations getting to such a bad point that visas are cut. Maybe I'm just more optimistic than you.

I pay the same everywhere (even in taxis) as the locals do. I've been here a few years this isn't a new country to me. Plus the fact that I speak and understand a fair amount of Russian doesn't hurt. Ukrainian taxi drivers are just out and out thieves.

Ask your Russian friends if they would want their son sent to fight in Ukraine. Then see how much they support war there. Russians do support the taking of Crimea but Donbass is a different issue. Many do support the militants but they would not support a Russian invasion into Ukraine.

I have no doubt the Russians are giving me their honest opinions. I've known these people awhile and there wouldn't be much reason for them to lie. They aren't stupid about their government and the history of this country. Do you think Americans are the only ones who criticize their government? I've also heard similar opinions to the ones you have (Ukraine not being a real country and so forth) but those most critical of Ukraine have been Ukrainians who came here to escape the fighting. They're absolutely furious about Maidan.

[Boethius]

But those most critical of Ukraine have been Ukrainians who came here to escape the fighting. They're absolutely furious about Maidan.

When Maidan occurred, my husband said he hoped there would be no bloodshed, but he predicted war.  He said that Donetsk would not support the new government, as they were "hardcore proletarian" and  easily manipulated.

[Slumba]

Russia's GDP per capita is higher than that of Ukraine, so its economy is better.


I don't think there is a danger of Russians not being able to leave the country.  I think that concern is overblown.

There are already cases where certain Russians in certain govt jobs (though in professions that are mainly staffed by men) are prohibited from freely leaving Russia, aren't there?

My view is that the recent "peak coldness" between USA and Russia has occurred and things will thaw out a bit.

[Boethius]

Yes, however, those individuals could leave their jobs if this were an issue for them.


While anything is possible, I think because many Russians have traveled outside their country, there would be an outcry if it were prohibited now. 


A state apparatus also takes a lot of production out of the economy.  Russia can't afford that.