Krakow & Lviv tour

[Trenchcoat]

He is cheap.


I don't think it is a good idea to lie to women.  What happens when she arrives in the UK and finds out he is living on 10,000 pounds a year?

Thanks

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race

[ML]

Thanks

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race

Equals around $17,000 USD which wouldn't qualify for bringing a woman over under USA requirements.

[Boethius]

It’s not enough for the UK either.

[Blighty]

It’s not enough for the UK either.

Moby and I have both already highlighted this fact before to TC. The magic figure is £18,600 which is a big increase from £13,000. He would never be able to support a wife and children on around £13,000!

[Blighty]

If Trench can't afford to take care of a woman full time, he might want to consider the temporary solution of renting over buying.

Renting is quite expensive in the UK, and it is quickly approaching the monthly cost of a mortgage. It makes more sense to buy rather than to rent a property.

[IvanM07]

Thanks

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race

I think you're being given some good advice here, Trench. I'm by no means rich, but do well for myself both as far as my age and the national average. I really only took the step to look abroad when I thought I'd be able to take care of and provide for another person very comfortably. If you can't is there a good or very good chance that you can in the next Year or so?

That doesn't mean that I'm not like you in that I don't take care to live prudently. Hell my current house is on the edge of the Ghetto (mostly to be able to buy more car, computer parts, buy stupid shit online and stack savings) But it's important I think to take an unbiased look at your income and if you could reliably care for another person at the national average or above for the next 2-4 years and possibly beyond without her being able to contribute in a financial sense during that period.

The girl I'm seeing speaks great English, has a good trade/education and with her being young, watching Youtube a lot understanding american English and humor...She could probably jump in and start working and get acclimated within a year but I wouldn't put that kind of burden on her to start working ASAP, I've told her my expectations are 2-5 years. I say all that for you to look at and set a reasonable expectation of X years, and whether you can afford to care for her in an average or above average way during that period.

If you can't you probably need to be upfront with them and at least turn it into a positive by saying you're currently on an extreme budget but that's so that you can save up and start a business to be financially independent within X years. You're not lying and turning it into a positive.

[Trenchcoat]

He would never be able to support a wife and children on around £13,000!

Not true, I own outright my own home, so that 13k is all disposable income. So would easily cover food, clothing, entertainment and utility bills/taxes.

As said before I can easily increase my hours from 30 at present to 50 or so and easily make the 18.6k that is not a problem for me.

Believe me there are people on benefit that live on a lot less than I bring in.

[BillyB]

Renting is quite expensive in the UK, and it is quickly approaching the monthly cost of a mortgage. It makes more sense to buy rather than to rent a property.

I was suggesting to Trench rent women occasionally instead of "buy" since he may not be able to afford a full time wife.

[Bee Farmer]

Well actuall its 13,000 a year,
Equals around $17,000 USD

I thought you were an architect?  In the US, an architect would normally earn $75K a year.

I know gas station attendants who earn more than $17,000USD a year Trench.  (I made almost $17K when I was in high school working at a gas station, and that was almost 25 years ago.)

The lowest unskilled worker can make $17K a year earning minimum wage.  This is the kind of work someone with an 85 IQ can do.

Women look for men who are equal or higher in the dominance heirarchy.  If you earn $17K, then you need to find a woman who earns the US minimum wage or less, with an IQ of 85 or less.  (Look at the bright side, a woman with less than an 85 IQ won't have enough brains to try scamming you.  You will be dealing with someone with an intellect of a 13 or 14 year old.)  If you want a girl from Ukraine, go visit some orphanages, and rescue some girl who is about to be kicked out on the streets because she will be 18.

Now, even if a girl has an 85 IQ but is good looking, she can get a guy who can offer her more than a $17,000 USD lifestyle.  That means you are going to need to look for really ugly girls, really fat, with a low IQ, especially if there is an age gap.  Those are the kinds of girls whose lives will be improved by a guy earning $17K. 

I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm just trying to be realistic.  If you are not interested in a fat, ugly, and really stupid girl who will have virtually zero economic prospects, then you are going to need to get your life in order before you even think about pursuing a lady.  You don't need to pick up more hours at work - you need to get a different job, and maybe you need to take some schooling (if you have enough brains) to learn a skilled job so you can earn more money.

Just to put this in perspective, they say someone with a 95 IQ (slightly below average for a white person) can be a machinist.  I used to work as a machinist, and I was making over $20 an hour in a factory, and that was over 10 years ago.  I have a high school diploma, no college, and no specialized training.  I learned on the job in machine shops.

Believe me there are people on benefit that live on a lot less than I bring in.

Then those are the girls you need to be pursuing, as they are the ones who would feel like their life was being improved by being with you.

In the US, (2013 data) a person could get welfare benefits worth $49,175 a year in Hawaii.  The state with the lowest amount of welfare benefits, Mississippi, gives $16,984 worth of benefits.

What is it about your character and person that is so magnificent that a woman would want you and your $17K when she can get $17K in Mississippi? (if she was in the US.)

Not true, I own outright my own home, so that 13k is all disposable income. So would easily cover food, clothing, entertainment and utility bills/taxes.

Yeah, but what is that house like?

The first house I bought I paid cash.  It was a tax foreclosure property that I bought for $6,500.  It had no running water, the electrical wiring was so bad it was a wonder the place never burned down. (most outlets were charred from being overheated.)  There were holes in the drywall.  The bathroom floor was ripped out.  Hey, I owned it outright, but no woman would ever want to live in it in that condition.  (The property did have a 38 by 50 foot cinder block garage, and I knew the lot and garage was worth more than $6,500.  I had people offering to give me double what I paid for it within a week of buying it.)

The 3rd house I bought I paid $7,000 cash at an auditor's sale, and sold it 2 weeks later for $10,000.  (If a property doesn't sell at a tax foreclosure sale, it gets forfeited to the county, and then they have an absolute auction at an auditor's sale, and something like $1000 is the starting/minimum bid.)  Windows were missing, doors were busted in, coons had been living in the house.  The place was trashed.  Technically, I owned it outright, but no woman worth anything would live in it.  (Only a woman from the lowest dregs of society might have lived there if it was fixed up a little...and I am talking about a drug addicted, homeless, prostitute type of woman.)

Well actuall its 13,000 a year, that I could easily increase by doing more hours which I know I can easily get, but I have my mind set on more longer term independent income to get meself out of the rat race

$17,000 a year isn't even in the rat race.  The rat race is when you are in a hard to break financial situation.  All you have to do to get out of a $17K situation is to sign up for welfare benefits.  Even with $17K income, you can probably get another $10K in benefits.

[IvanM07]

I thought you were an architect?  In the US, an architect would normally earn $75K a year.

I know gas station attendants who earn more than $17,000USD a year Trench.  (I made almost $17K when I was in high school working at a gas station, and that was almost 25 years ago.)

The lowest unskilled worker can make $17K a year earning minimum wage.  This is the kind of work someone with an 85 IQ can do.

Women look for men who are equal or higher in the dominance heirarchy.  If you earn $17K, then you need to find a woman who earns the US minimum wage or less, with an IQ of 85 or less.  (Look at the bright side, a woman with less than an 85 IQ won't have enough brains to try scamming you.  You will be dealing with someone with an intellect of a 13 or 14 year old.)  If you want a girl from Ukraine, go visit some orphanages, and rescue some girl who is about to be kicked out on the streets because she will be 18.

Agreed, during the recession I was 19 or 20 I lost my job, moved back with my parents and was making $460/week on Unemployment back in Texas and things were still tight for that 3 months until finding a new job.

The absolute last thing on my mind at the time was looking for a wife or Girlfriend Domestically or Abroad.

[Bee Farmer]

I just checked the Help Wanted ads in the local paper.

Laborer. No experience needed. Must have transportation. $10/hr.

Helping care for mentally retarded people. Must have GED/high school diploma, ability to lift 50 pounds. $11/hr

Laborer working on crew sealing asphalt driveways. Must have transportation. $13/hr

None of these jobs require a drug test.  They know most applicants can't pass a drug test, which is why the pay is so low.

Craigslist Help Wanted Ads...

Semi truck driver - average pay $1300 week
Semi driver - one year exp. No DUIs. $1950 weekly average pay
Experienced landscaper/hardscaper - must pass drug test. $45K-$65K
Starbucks barista - $10-$14/hr
Warehouse workers - $13.70/hr
Quality control inspector - 2 yrs. exp. $17/hr
Experienced handyman/carpenter/remodeler $18-$26/hr
Telemarketer - $15/hr + commission
Machine operator - 6 mos. exp. production or manufacturing $15/hr
Light auto service tech - tires, batteries $30k-$60K
Retail carpentry - installing shelves, displays in stores $13.50/hr
Experienced plumbers - $21-$26/hr

There are 3000 jobs locally in Craigslist Help Wanted.  The lowest pay I saw was $10/hr.

There is no excuse for someone to be making $17K a year unless he is lazy or mentally retarded.  (And if he has a strong back and is willing to work hard, a retarded guy will be able to make $10/hr. as long as he is functional.)

You could always be like my brother.
Did 4 years in the Army. 
Took some technical college courses, but never got a degree.
Physically fit - 5'10" and 150 pounds.  No drugs/alcohol/tobacco.
Works for an agricultural supply place...does custom spraying of pesticides.  Probably earns around $35K-$40K.
Whackjob Bible Thumper nutcase
Got married when he was 36 to a girl in her late 20's who had $30K in college debt, and so fat she had never had a boyfriend.
They moved into a 1960's house trailer he had put on dad's land.
She doesn't work, other than being a stay at home mom for 3 kids.

[IvanM07]

I just checked the Help Wanted ads in the local paper.

Laborer. No experience needed. Must have transportation. $10/hr.

Helping care for mentally retarded people. Must have GED/high school diploma, ability to lift 50 pounds. $11/hr

Laborer working on crew sealing asphalt driveways. Must have transportation. $13/hr

None of these jobs require a drug test.  They know most applicants can't pass a drug test, which is why the pay is so low.

Craigslist Help Wanted Ads...

Semi truck driver - average pay $1300 week
Semi driver - one year exp. No DUIs. $1950 weekly average pay
Experienced landscaper/hardscaper - must pass drug test. $45K-$65K
Starbucks barista - $10-$14/hr
Warehouse workers - $13.70/hr
Quality control inspector - 2 yrs. exp. $17/hr
Experienced handyman/carpenter/remodeler $18-$26/hr
Telemarketer - $15/hr + commission
Machine operator - 6 mos. exp. production or manufacturing $15/hr
Light auto service tech - tires, batteries $30k-$60K
Retail carpentry - installing shelves, displays in stores $13.50/hr
Experienced plumbers - $21-$26/hr

There are 3000 jobs locally in Craigslist Help Wanted.  The lowest pay I saw was $10/hr.

There is no excuse for someone to be making $17K a year unless he is lazy or mentally retarded.  (And if he has a strong back and is willing to work hard, a retarded guy will be able to make $10/hr. as long as he is functional.)

You could always be like my brother.
Did 4 years in the Army. 
Took some technical college courses, but never got a degree.
Physically fit - 5'10" and 150 pounds.  No drugs/alcohol/tobacco.
Works for an agricultural supply place...does custom spraying of pesticides.  Probably earns around $35K-$40K.
Whackjob Bible Thumper nutcase
Got married when he was 36 to a girl in her late 20's who had $30K in college debt, and so fat she had never had a boyfriend.
They moved into a 1960's house trailer he had put on dad's land.
She doesn't work, other than being a stay at home mom for 3 kids.

for 0xp $10/hr isn't bad...I made $8.75 at my first job as a PC repair guy in 2007.

Depending on the field, you don't even need a degree or certs. I have 30 hrs of college, a HS Diploma and an A+ Cert from High School, and I make low six figures. If a lazy IT Nerd can do it just about anyone can, with the proper motivation I figure.

[BillyB]

Just remember guys, you live in America, Trench doesn't. I've had to turn down jobs because I can't find enough qualified people. Half the people that work for me been in jail at some point of their lives. Some haven't graduated from high school. All are legal although at one time some were illegal. Some are felons. Heavy equipment operators get $59 per hr and labors get $48 per hr on starting next month on a government funded job I picked up. I have nieces and nephews just graduated from college and right out of college, turning down jobs paying $100,000 a year because they're being offered more from somewhere else. The economy is booming where I'm at. One has to be a deadbeat if they aren't working. If a person is just an average worker with half a brain, you're better than half the people out there and should be making decent money.

[IvanM07]

Just remember guys, you live in America, Trench doesn't. I've had to turn down jobs because I can't find enough qualified people. Half the people that work for me been in jail at some point of their lives. Some haven't graduated from high school. All are legal although at one time some were illegal. Some are felons. Heavy equipment operators get $59 per hr and labors get $48 per hr on starting next month on a government funded job I picked up. I have nieces and nephews just graduated from college and right out of college, turning down jobs paying $100,000 a year because they're being offered more from somewhere else. The economy is booming where I'm at. One has to be a deadbeat if they aren't working. If a person is just an average worker with half a brain, you're better than half the people out there and should be making decent money.

Fair point, I just kind of assumed with the GBP being worth more the wages would have similar parity.

I thought I read an older post of yours a while ago but couldn't remember, are you in Seattle?

Did the city council tax on employees affect you much? I thought I saw a lot of folks in the construction field protesting the decision at the time. Funny Story, I actually had 2 Interviews with Amazon's core network team out there about a month ago.

Ended up taking a new job in Charlotte rather than moving forward to the next round of interviews. Mostly due to the lower cost of living, friends and family living out that way, and guarantee I had this job lol. Hopefully it will end up the better move than the prestige working for Amazon would have afforded. 

[Davo2]

"I used to work as a machinist, and I was making over $20 an hour in a factory, and that was over 10 years ago.  I have a high school diploma, no college, and no specialized training.  I learned on the job in machine shops."

He might be better off becoming a machinist. I work as a machinist and 2nd class welder, although I studied as a qualified toolmaker. I'm on a little over $30 an hour . The last place I worked  as a leading hand and was on $38 an hour.

After hours / part time,  I currently charge $70 an hour contract machining for a local performance part supplier, using my own cnc machinery set up at home..... It's blue collar work, but my part time business has turned very profitable over the last few months. Last weekend I set the mill running and loaded a new job every 30 mins in between gardening and spending time with my kids. I made an easy $1400.

I considered applying for a maintenance fitting job recently service petrol pumps.... 78-85k a year. Company vehicle and on the job training. The only down side was you were on call, after hours and occasionally you were required to do some over night regional jobs. With a skills shortage in these trades, wages are starting to rise especially in maintenance and breakdown fitting. 

[Blighty]

Not true, I own outright my own home, so that 13k is all disposable income. So would easily cover food, clothing, entertainment and utility bills/taxes.

As said before I can easily increase my hours from 30 at present to 50 or so and easily make the 18.6k that is not a problem for me.

Believe me there are people on benefit that live on a lot less than I bring in.

You are expecting her to have a low standard of living. Her expectations will be much higher than queuing at food banks and shopping for her clothes at charity shops! You are not being realistic about the future, and money problems would naturally lead to friction within any potential marriage of yours.

I do not agree that £40,000 pa is needed but certainly a lot more than £13,000 is required for a decent standard of living ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/02/families-need-40000-year-decent-standard-living/

[LAman]

This is a very good example of people looooooving to talk about themselves!!!


And better at putting somebody down...…….

[Boethius]

So you think a guy making a third of the average UK wage will have success?  Would it be better to tell him, “Why yes, a UW is looking for a poverty lifestyle with a misogynist.”

[Davo2]

Trench have you added up what this will cost you?


If you realistically look at the expenses involved...  Travel, visas, engagement rings, wedding, relocation costs (for her), preparing your house, her car licence, buying a car, car  insurance and running costs,  study and language courses, heath insurance, dental,  beauty salon costs ( you'll be suppressed on what a local woman  spends, let alone what I've been told about FSU women), clothes, hobbies, entertainment, holidays etc.. etc... etc... Then you throw children into the mix. Believe me, that's not cheap. What ever you think children  will cost, times it by 2. Baby's are expensive, then it gets cheaper when they are 5-12 and then it gets insane when they are teenagers. I now have 2 working so it's taken the pressure off.

 Last year I made $60k through the company I work for ($33652 pounds) On top of that my after hours  business only made $8k , only because it's still in my ex's name..... Paying her out at the end of this month after an expensive  3 year divorce ( learn from my mistake. Look deeper than boobs and good looks, that comes after good morals and a consistent personality) This coming year I project my business will make at least 30k.

Even at this level of income ( which is not high compared to others here), I've been pretty realistic with the women I've talked to. If they want to live an enjoyable life and have a comfortable retirement, they will have to work in my country. For most middle class couples with kids, there is no other option, if you want to have a good standard of living.

I think you're underestimating the costs involved, even if you aren't paying a mortgage and if you are lucky enough to find a woman, she will have no choice to work, despite your feelings on the matter. On that subject, I've yet to chat with one woman who doesn't want to study, get a job and have a successful career if she decided to move to my country. As I've said before, I'm not experienced in any of this, but I get the sense most are driven to succeed with both family and careers.
.

 

[Blighty]

@LAman I was getting TC to think realistically about how his income is inadequate for this venture. In comparison, I was earning more than £13,000 in 1984. I agree with Boethius that UW are not looking for a poverty lifestyle when moving to a new country!

[Trenchcoat]

You are expecting her to have a low standard of living. Her expectations will be much higher than queuing at food banks and shopping for her clothes at charity shops! You are not being realistic about the future, and money problems would naturally lead to friction within any potential marriage of yours.

I do not agree that £40,000 pa is needed but certainly a lot more than £13,000 is required for a decent standard of living ...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/02/families-need-40000-year-decent-standard-living/

The 40K is needed by someone who either rents ot pays off a mortgage. That is what they don't tell you in this article, along with that is the before tax earning. So roughly the first roughly 12k is tax free, hence why I'm happy earning 13k After that your talking 20 percent tax basic Income Tax on 12-20k earning of each person, so that is 8K that will be taxed meaning you are only going to get 6k, lol.

Not done there though as there is also National Insurance Tax at 12 percent above earnings of approx 8.4k a year. So 20k earnings minus 8.4k equals 11.6k to tax at 12 percent, so approx 1.4k tax to pay on National Insurance.

So that 6k after income tax (both income tax and national insurance are calulated on the total sum you earn) we can minus 1.4k for national insurance tax bringing the grand total of extra money that person would bring in after tax to 4.6k extra income per year , wohoo...

So after tax each person is really only bringing in 16.6k so 33.2k for both working. Compared to that I will roughly be bringing in about 12.5k after tax. So per person not a lot of difference, I of course do not have rent or mortgage cost to pay - most couples will.

Add to my money of course any child tax credits I may be able to claim under UC in that scenario and their is probably not a lot of difference.

Sure some families will drive a four by four I will drive a normal car. Some will pig out in restaurants at weekends I/we wouldn't. Some will buy expensive clothes, I wouldn't, etc, etc. But you can support a family quite well off 12.5k actual income if you don't have rent or mortgage to pay, even without her working and having a child for quite some time. Many families in the UK live on a lot less. By Ukrainain standards what I am offering is quite a comfortable lifestyle  

[Nightwish]

This is like comparing apples and potato.

That Trench is not making enough to support a family I totally agree on,that would be a poor life, but comparing his income to US income is futile.

I make enough money to live a very comfortable life (am not going to throw numbers out here), but this being a socialist nation I take home less then half of my salary, the rest our government seems to think they deserve more then me. :p

How ever, ALL medical care is free.
Schools are completely free 1st grade -> University,
We have 16 months payed leave when having a child.
Fully paid sick leave.
and of course then there is all these welfare programs that I never used, and these are quite generous if you are in need. Designed not only to survive but to live a descent life.

I have no idea how the Brits have this, but $17000 yearly income, that would fall under the "benchmark" minimum wage (~$20k) and almost on verge of poverty and be more or less non taxable.

[mhr7]

By Ukrainain standards what I am offering is quite a comfortable lifestyle

She'll be expecting a comfortable lifestyle by UK standards. One thing FSU, and other, women look for is a man who improves himself and has upward mobility. You seem to be comfortable standing pat and doing nothing. You're trying to accomplish your search for a wife in the laziest way possible.

[Trenchcoat]

She'll be expecting a comfortable lifestyle by UK standards. One these, and other, women look for is a man who improves himself and has upward mobility. You seem to be comfortable standing pat and doing nothing. You're trying to accomplish your search for a wife in the laziest way possible.

I am trying to move up in life but its not easy when nearly everyone else is trying to do the same also. Plus I am doing it single handed by not being in a couple, that is the problem of a lot of UK women they want the finished product there already baked not realising that a guy is on the same money they are on these day, that it often takes two to accomplish much at all. I don't know what you mean in trying to search for a wife in the laziest way possible? I'm trying to search for a wife in a way that is most efficient and hopefully will bring up what I want. If one strategy fails as it has done here then I learn from it and try and improve on it from what I learnt for next time.

[Trenchcoat]

This is like comparing apples and potato.

That Trench is not making enough to support a family I totally agree on,that would be a poor life, but comparing his income to US income is futile.

I make enough money to live a very comfortable life (am not going to throw numbers out here), but this being a socialist nation I take home less then half of my salary, the rest our government seems to think they deserve more then me. :p

How ever, ALL medical care is free.
Schools are completely free 1st grade -> University,
We have 16 months payed leave when having a child.
Fully paid sick leave.
and of course then there is all these welfare programs that I never used, and these are quite generous if you are in need. Designed not only to survive but to live a descent life.

I have no idea how the Brits have this, but $17000 yearly income, that would fall under the "benchmark" minimum wage (~$20k) and almost on verge of poverty and be more or less non taxable.

Exactly, the situation is similar in the UK but with a little less welfare in some places, i.e they will not pay as much in welfare support under the different categories, only 6 months paid maternity leave if the girl was working prior for so long, etc

Yes my wage is more or less non-taxable, I will be adding to this more income that is non-taxable along the way once I get sorted out, and that is happening at the moment. I disagree that this would afford a life of poverty - how much does food really cost, a bit of clothes buying here & there? etc.

Like in Sweden we have a free NHS (Health Service), subsidised dentistry, free education, etc so you don't need a lot of income to live well.