WTF!

[wallm]

I had my first argument with the woman I am pursuing. We had talked about future together. I was supposed to go see her again during the last week of this month. Out of the blue, she says “no dogs in the house.” I asked why and she said her aunt got bitten by a stray and is really sick. Probably the dog had rabies. I explained I had dogs since I was a ten. I treat them like family and I take good care of them. She would have none of it. She knew since the beginning how much I love my dog. I had showed her pictures and she seemed to like her. She told me to give it to a shelter. I was pissed. I told her as politely as I could, “I am not getting rid of my dog for any reason.” I got the silent treatment for the last week. It was hard to enjoy the long weekend. No responses to viber and skype messages and calls. I have no patience for this kind of drama and illogical thinking. Back to the drawing board. I thought if I am being hasty but this is a deal breaker. I would never get rid of my dog, even for someone who looks like Margot Robbie. I like my Spin class instructor. Nice ass, killer smile and happy person. Last option is calling Ed if I want to continue pursuing FSUW.

[rw_recruiter]

We were walking through the park today and I walked over to pet a dog. The girl I am visiting quickly grabbed my hand and looked scared. She said dogs are mean and attack. I noticed another dog with a heavy duty muzzle on. Seems they are treated a bit differently here in Ukraine.

[jone]

Only you, wallm, can determine how much your dog means to you.  But I can tell you from recent personal experience, that you might have read, that a woman is probably not gonna kick you to the side of the road because you have a dog.

My woman was adamant that my dogs would not be part of our future family until I told her that her unilateral ultimatum was not only wrong but a deal breaker.  And I further told her that she needed to make up her mind, then and there.

She was trying to maintain that her son could not be around dogs due to asthma.  When I pointed out a couple of articles that said asthma cannot be caused by dogs, she didn't know what to do.  I soft pedaled for awhile and finally got her so she accepted the dogs as long as they did not join us in the bed or anything like that.  I told her that dogs were dogs, not people. 

She now introduces her son to my dogs as if we were all part of one big family.

(Smart girl.)

[BillyB]

I have no patience for this kind of drama and illogical thinking.

Some of the people over there have different beliefs. Ever been in a car with an FSU person and it's 90 degrees plus out and they refuse to turn on the air conditioner because air conditioners make you sick? Many over there believe drinks with ice in them will make you sick.


Wallm, your bond with your lady may have not been strong enough before this event showed up. For me, a wife/fiancee/family is more important than an animal. Who knows, if you got to the point of her being your wife and had to pick and choose, you may have chose her over the dog. Nobody wants to be in the decision to choose between two things they love but unfortunately it happens.

Seems they are treated a bit differently here in Ukraine.

Not true. My wife is a dog lover and she has no problem stopping to pet someone's dogs. Most dogs I've seen there are not on leashes and I've never been afraid that a dog was going to attack me.

[ML]

I like dogs also.
But haven't had one in several years because of my heavy traveling.
And now, my house has Oak hardwood floors throughout because of my aversion to dust that accumulates in carpets no matter how much you vacuum.
A dog would ruin the floors in short order.
Now that I don't travel much at all, I have been thinking how I could add an extra room or some such to accommodate a dog, but haven't figured anything out yet.
No logical place to put the room that would also access the outdoors, and dog would want to be with someone, not alone in a separate room.
Doesn't seem to be a solution in sight.
Ochka is really not an animal person, but don't think she would try to stop me.

[wallm]

jone, this woman may not be as sensible as yours.

I have not told her I am breaking it off, yet. But there is zero chance I will pick her or anyone other woman over my dog. It could just be me. My dog sleeps near my feet in my bed. I am willing to get her off the bed if future Mrs. wants it but there is no way in hell I would give her to a shelter. It is possible our bond isn't as strong as I thought or she may really be freaked out about her aunt. I told her we don't have as many stray dogs here as there are in Ukraine and I get my dog vaccinated and taken care of and chances of her getting bit are low. We had spent dozens of hours talking about our lives, expectations. I showed her pictures of my life. I sent her videos of daily life. All of that included my dog as she is always with me unless I am in Ukraine. I really am annoyed she won't talk to me. I need someone who tries to resolve issues with conversation. Who likes silent treatment? Are we 15?

More spin classes for me I think. Only problem is they are scheduled for 5:30 AM. As I get older, it sucks waking up that early.

[wallm]

We were walking through the park today and I walked over to pet a dog. The girl I am visiting quickly grabbed my hand and looked scared. She said dogs are mean and attack. I noticed another dog with a heavy duty muzzle on. Seems they are treated a bit differently here in Ukraine.

I had noticed many strays in Ukraine. They tend to bark but I had not seen aggressiveness towards people. It is also well known that a lot of dogs were poisoned and many are shot in Ukraine. I remember getting off the flight after 13 hours of flying 3 legs from JFK to Zaporozhye and being unable to get sleep because of barking dogs just outside the hotel. Most people seem disinterested to help them. I did see one woman with bags of dog food feeding them in Kiev though. It is different there. We spend billions on our pets. There many can't afford to help strays.

[BillyB]

jone, this woman may not be as sensible as yours.

I have not told her I am breaking it off, yet.

Jone told his lady that it would be a deal breaker for him. You can do the same and maybe your lady will come to her senses too.


As the MAN, you need to solve the problem and it's possible it can be solved without ultimatum style threats of the relationship being terminated if you don't get your way. Your lady giving you the silent treatment is wrong but how did you handle this prior to the silent treatment? Your lady needs to feel she is the most important person in your life over dogs, your mom or siblings. If you gave her any impression that she is #2 behind a dog, it's not surprising that you're getting the silent treatment.


So to unfuck the situation, you're going to have to open up first and remind her how important she is to you. You have to reassure her she will always be #1 in your life over the dog but you need the second most important thing(the dog) to be in your life too. You have to convince her that once she lives in your home with the dog, she will understand the dog is not dangerous and maybe she will come to love the dog. I would've never bought a dog on my own but my wife wanted them. I've grown attached to them but I still value human life over animals. That's what you lady needs from you, if not value all human life, at least hers. After she understands she is #1, she should come to her senses and realize her future husband needs both #1 and the #2 important things in his life for his happiness.

I had noticed many strays in Ukraine.

 We spend billions on our pets. There many can't afford to help strays.

No population control for the animals. My wife seen entire litters of puppies and kittens abandoned in the streets because the dog owner can't afford them or too lazy to try to find homes for them.

[rw_recruiter]

The girl said stray dogs will attack or bite. She seemed afraid of them. I did see a large pit bull on a chain that first night. Very aggressive with a wanna be gangster owner. A few dogs with owners in cafe's, but smaller breeds. Not like the big yellow strays I see.

[wallm]

I can do all that Billy, if she talks to me. It sounded like she gave me an ultimatum and I am not going for that. Could be a standoff I guess. I had told her she is very important to me. I am very attentive to her from 5000 miles away. We love each other's company when I am there with her. She knows what I think of her. I fought to keep this dog in the divorce and it cost me thousands more in attorney fees. I refused to sign the divorce settlement for months till I got the dog. She is going nowhere.

[BillyB]

I can do all that Billy, if she talks to me. It sounded like she gave me an ultimatum and I am not going for that. Could be a standoff I guess.

I don't know how you discussed this with her but if you gave her ANY  impression the dog was more important, most women with dignity would not move to the other side of the world to be #2 behind a dog. She needs to understand she's #1 but she also needs to understand you need #1 and #2 in your life just like she needs her #1 and #2.


Let things cool off. Continue to make contact but not so much giving the impression you're desperate. I've read people here breaking up over religion, politics, children but if things don't work out for you, breaking up over a dog will be a first.

[JayH]

Others commented  on how strays are treated -before Soccer EU Cup in 2012 there was a major attempt to clean up.

On attitudes--because many in Ukraine have been apartment based they have not been exposed to dog ownership.Even if more animal oriented it would usually be a cat.
The strays can get aggressive in packs --so care is needed-- and of course -the danger from disease is potentially much higher than developed countries.Generally --people there will say - don't go near stray dogs.

To the op- I am a dog person .My dog passed away a few years ago and I have not got another one as I am away lengthy amounts of time -- and I now no longer have my father for the dog to stay with either.
Given that your lady will not have been exposed to dogs -- and seemingly not having much understanding either !!    --  I would soft peddle it at this stage. As an example -- my father was never a dog "person" -- but my little girl persisted in getting close to him and changing his attitude-- and won him over completely over time !!
Having a dog on a bed you sleep in is unimaginable to a non dog person -- and I can relate to that -I would have a problem with a cat doing it !
My bottom line is pretty simple here-- I would not rule your lady out just on this issue alone.

   a ps    there are Ukrainian girls on forum who are heavily involved with animal shelters  in Ukraine

[wallm]

I don't know how you discussed this with her but if you gave her ANY  impression the dog was more important, most women with dignity would not move to the other side of the world to be #2 behind a dog. She needs to understand she's #1 but she also needs to understand you need #1 and #2 in your life just like she needs her #1 and #2.

We had many candid conversations during our courtship. She asked me directly who are most important in my life. I told her my son, my parents and my dog in that order. She asked what it is like living with me. Part of my answer included how much time my dog spends with me when I am not working. I told her how much she loves going on long rides and sometimes I take her on vacation along with my son. She had seen the dog on skype chats sitting in my lap many times. I don't know if she thinks my dog comes first before my loved ones. It doesn't but I treat her just like a family member. I will back off and see what happens but I am not wasting time.

There seem to be many hot chicks on bride.ru 

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/in-over30/index1.html

I have a non-refundable ticket. I might as well go and meet a few.

[HoundDaddyLee]

Wall,


Given my forum name and avatar I am a dog person. My girl, who has visited me a couple of times, knew up front that one or more dogs come with the package. Fortunately, she loves my dog and he took to her. I think Jay's advice is good also. In general, ultimatums are bad in relationships, but I would never send my dog to a shelter for a woman. Just like I would never tell a woman to end a relationship with her children.


Good luck with this.


HDL

[jone]

Wall,


Given my forum name and avatar I am a dog person. My girl, who has visited me a couple of times, knew up front that one or more dogs come with the package. Fortunately, she loves my dog and he took to her. I think Jay's advice is good also. In general, ultimatums are bad in relationships, but I would never send my dog to a shelter for a woman. Just like I would never tell a woman to end a relationship with her children.


Good luck with this.


HDL

Did you get your dog surgery so its ears wouldn't drag on the floor anymore?

[BillyB]

There seem to be many hot chicks on bride.ru 

http://bride.ru/ph/htcgi/ladies/in-over30/index1.html

Considering she hasn't answered you in a week, you might as well prepare to move in another direction. The best way to forget a woman is with another woman.


I can't fault the people over there for their views on pets. When a child wants a luxury item such as a pet and needs pair of shoes for school, the shoes come first. People over there may not understand why we can't discard pets as quickly as they can. Survival dictates how we live and think. When I was in Uzbekistan, in some restaurants, horse and dog were on the menu.

[mhr7]

I got the silent treatment for the last week. It was hard to enjoy the long weekend.

Ever read the classic Men Are From Mars, Women Are From Venus? If not, I highly recommend it. It will give you some insight into how women think and how to react to them in order to keep the peace in a relationship. It saved a lot of frustration in mine.

If she's given you the silent treatment for the last week I have doubts that this was your first argument or else she has something else very stressful going on in her life you may or may not be aware of. Don't expect logic from women, they are emotional by nature.

Women would rather have someone who does more calm, understanding listening than lectures them about how wrong they are.

[Boethius]

I really am annoyed she won't talk to me. I need someone who tries to resolve issues with conversation. Who likes silent treatment? Are we 15?

More spin classes for me I think.  

She is either feeling you are not hearing her, or she thinks she can manipulate you with silence.  But, if you can so easily move on, perhaps she is not the one for you in any event.

Re dogs in Ukraine - Jay, you are wrong.  A lot of Ukrainians had pet dogs in Soviet times.  I was "introduced" to most of the dogs in our apartment block, as people typically walked their dogs in the local park at the same time.

The better half always had a pet dog.  He's ok with cats, he fed all the stray cats in the neighbourhood (crows and pigeons, too), but he would never allow a cat in the home.  When he left Ukraine, his nephew brought home a Siamese kitten.  Not his first attempt, but the better half always said no way, and would release the cats as soon as they arrived in the apartment. 

In Soviet times, there were no stray dogs in the cities, and I mean zero.  There were always lots of cats around.  The stray situation started fairly early when society broke down after the collapse.  You could also, in Soviet times, drink the water out of any tap in any city in Russia or Ukraine, except Leningrad.

In villages, dogs belonged pretty much to the whole village, anyone in the village would feed them scraps, they typically did not belong to one family.  When my husband worked at Chernobyl', he used to take all the village dogs with him when he ran through the forest - fun for them, as they'd chase rabbits, but be at his ankles if a wolf or boar was nearby.

I never heard of a dog or cat there being neutered or spayed, though no doubt that's happening now. 

[wallm]

She is either feeling you are not hearing her, or she thinks she can manipulate you with silence.  But, if you can so easily move on, perhaps she is not the one for you in any event.

I heard her all right. I told her I understand why she is thinking that way and tried to explain that her chances of getting bit here in the US is minimal. My dog never bites. I have to move on. I follow 2tallbill's advice about moving on if the woman is not right regardless of how hot she is.

[Boethius]

I really doubt she was concerned about being bitten by your dog.  What you are not recognizing is how she feels.  She is, in this regard, no different than most women.

[ML]

. . . and how hot your dog is.

[wallm]

I really doubt she was concerned about being bitten by your dog.  What you are not recognizing is how she feels.  She is, in this regard, no different than most women.

From your perspective, how exactly is she feeling? She is from Venus of course. I hadn't been there.

[BillyB]

I told her I understand why she is thinking that way and tried to explain that her chances of getting bit here in the US is minimal. My dog never bites.

She allowed you to explain but telling her chances to get bit in America are minimal is not a good answer. You think you just told her she won't get bit but she thinks you just told her there is a chance she'll get bit. She also may think you are implying in America, dogs behave better while Ukrainians don't know how to teach dogs.


One time my wife was complaining about something my sister said. Complaining, complaining, complaining. I just listened. Then I said "I could never live with my sister because of how she sometimes talks, that's why I prefer to live with a person like you." She was happy I said that. The truth is she gets along fine with my sisters but women sometimes need to talk or complain about something and need somebody to listen. Now if I said "Quit complaining about my sister. She's not perfect but I don't want to hear complaints from you." she may think I am placing importance in my sister more than her and things may escalate.


To most of us, it doesn't make sense why your girl overreacted to her aunt getting sick after getting bit by a dog. Instead of laying the relationship on the line, you could've said "I understand why it was traumatizing for your aunt and agreed some dogs are bad" instead of defending your dog or say you wouldn't give the dog away. Save that talk for another day. You needed to buy time for her to let her get over her emotions and get back to a rational thought process. When she's in a better frame of mind to talk, then explain to her that your dog is not as important as she is but the dog brings you happiness and ask her, in a sweet voice, if she can work with you to give the dog a chance to show that it's not a bad dog.

[BC]

My woman was adamant that my dogs would not be part of our future family until I told her that her unilateral ultimatum was not only wrong but a deal breaker.  And I further told her that she needed to make up her mind, then and there.

Only way to do it...

[wallm]

If she didn't come out and say "no dogs in the house", then I would have no need to make it clear I won't give away my dog. We could have had a mature conversation in which we talk about her concerns and perhaps reach a different conclusion. My reaction was because I was told I can't do something. And we aren't even married.