Trump against legal immigration

[Wayne]

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/16/9162905/trump-immigration

It's a long read, but interesting. I think this would effect people on this forum. I can see being against illegals--but why stop legal immigration?

Why be so against highly skilled workers?

What about family immigration? How much more difficulty can we endure?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

[LiveFromUkraine]

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/16/9162905/trump-immigration

It's a long read, but interesting. I think this would effect people on this forum. I can see being against illegals--but why stop legal immigration?

Why be so against highly skilled workers?

What about family immigration? How much more difficulty can we endure?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I assume his rationale is why bring in people for jobs when we already have them.   Is the H1B visas being used because there is a skill shortage or to drive down labor costs?   I don't think companies like Disney need H1B visas because they can't find local help.


  I never saw anything against family immigration.

[ML]

First, I don't know if that is really his official plan, or just something the author interpreted.

Second, I agree with almost all of his plan.

Third, I disagree with the part of the plan restricting H1B visas for skilled workers.  Skilled workers are how the US economy is going to compete globally and grow in the future.

Fourth, it is unclear how his plan will affect the 'family based' visas.  In the strictest interpretation, it would stop us from getting our foreign wives into the USA.

[Slumba]

First, I don't know if that is really his official plan, or just something the author interpreted.

Second, I agree with almost all of his plan.

Third, I disagree with the part of the plan restricting H1B visas for skilled workers.  Skilled workers are how the US economy is going to compete globally and grow in the future.

Fourth, it is unclear how his plan will affect the 'family based' visas.  In the strictest interpretation, it would stop us from getting our foreign wives into the USA.

Remember that skilled workers are available in the USA.  But not at the price people who run large companies want to pay. The people at Disney that were replaced by cheaper  h1bs were all Americans living in the USA already.

[ML]

Remember that skilled workers are available in the USA.  But not at the price people who run large companies want to pay. The people at Disney that were replaced by cheaper  h1bs were all Americans living in the USA already.

I am not an expert in this area.

However, I did some reading of the H1B program before marriage to see how she would fit into that program.

It was pretty clear that employers who hired under H1B had to pay the prevailing wage for the positions.

And I know that for University professor openings, the Universities strictly look at qualifications and would rather hire existing USA citizens . . . but often go with foreigners because they are clearly better.

[Gator]

America must attract and keep the world's top 1% whether they are from UK, China or Pakistan. 

In the past they came to America on student visas, received a high education subsidized by government or endowment, and then stayed here in research or the job market.  We do not want them to return to their home country.

As far as the average student, they would be competing with American citizens except in certain labor tight markets.  Why clear a pathway for those who are about the same as the average American?

[jone]

America must attract and keep the world's top 1% whether they are from UK, China or Pakistan. 

In the past they came to America on student visas, received a high education subsidized by government or endowment, and then stayed here in research or the job market.  We do not want them to return to their home country.

As far as the average student, they would be competing with American citizens except in certain labor tight markets.  Why clear a pathway for those who are about the same as the average American?

I have a friend from India who was brought here under just such circumstances.  His wife too.  Once integrated into American society, they had two daughters.  (One is my daughter's age.)  My observation is that those two children are among the most intellectually gifted students I have ever known.  They are a credit to our society and are the thinking head of our next generation.

[Slumba]

I am not an expert in this area.

However, I did some reading of the H1B program before marriage to see how she would fit into that program.

It was pretty clear that employers who hired under H1B had to pay the prevailing wage for the positions.

And I know that for University professor openings, the Universities strictly look at qualifications and would rather hire existing USA citizens . . . but often go with foreigners because they are clearly better.

The law does say "prevailing wage".

a Lou Dobbs segment from 2007 (showing you how long this debate has been going on!):



I believe the video they reference, made up of clips from the H1B-focused immigration law firm, is this one:

[Slumba]

America must attract and keep the world's top 1% whether they are from UK, China or Pakistan. 

Why?  What will happen to the USA if not?

[2tallbill]

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/16/9162905/trump-immigration

It's a long read, but interesting. I think this would effect people on this forum. I can see being against illegals--but why stop legal immigration?

Why be so against highly skilled workers?

Team Bush and Team Obama were both importing lower cost labor
to replace jobs of American citizens. Disney is probably the most
famous case.

Lawsuits Claim Disney Colluded to Replace U.S. Workers With Immigrants
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/26/us/lawsuit-claims-disney-colluded-to-replace-us-workers-with-immigrants.html

Pink Slips at Disney. But First, Training Foreign Replacements
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/04/us/last-task-after-layoff-at-disney-train-foreign-replacements.html?_r=0

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/16/9162905/trump-immigration

What about family immigration? How much more difficulty can we endure?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I think that they need to dial it way, way back. Stop 100% of
all refuges and asylum-seekers until they have a system in place
to properly vet them and even then we should take a very limited
number if any. We have enough immigrants applying each year
that aren't in some desperate situation.

On the H-1B, they need to stop it temporarily. Then put together
a plan to allow H-1B visa's only if Americans can't be found to do
the jobs. Replacing American workers with lower cost H1-B
workers is totally asinine. His requirements to pay a prevailing
wage would do this as well. You wouldn't import workers unless
you really needed them.

My opinion is that they need to dial everything back. They can
always dial it back up if they go too far. Yes we would all be
affected by the no new Green Card rule, but I think that there
could be ways around that.

Udachi!

Bill

[BillyB]

http://www.vox.com/2015/8/16/9162905/trump-immigration

It's a long read, but interesting. I think this would effect people on this forum. I can see being against illegals--but why stop legal immigration?

Why be so against highly skilled workers?

What about family immigration? How much more difficulty can we endure?

WHAT DO YOU THINK?

I didn't read the article but Trump already said months ago he sees the value in bringing skilled workers here. After talking to the farmers of America, he will also see the value of low skilled workers too. I went to a town hall meeting done my representative Adam Smith. Some citizens were mad about Hispanics taking jobs. He had a point that if we get rid of them, they would have to be replaced. He said he already has complaints from farmers that millions of pounds of crops are rotting because there aren't enough workers and our government isn't doing enough to get those workers in this country. I don't care if it's Democrats, Republicans, or even Trump, they aren't going to spend a lot of money to round up hard working illegals, send them back and hurt our economy.  I do believe Trump will be very hard on the criminal illegals more than Obama was.

Remember that skilled workers are available in the USA.

America does not have a monopoly on the Einstein's of the world and businesses aren't going to take people from McDonalds to fill up positions that require brains. Where ever an Einstein or close to one is in this world, it would be smart for America to bring them here where they can live good and maximize their talents. America owns over half the Nobel Peace Prizes. We can't maintain that if we close our borders.

[Slumba]

America does not have a monopoly on the Einstein's of the world and businesses aren't going to take people from McDonalds to fill up positions that require brains. Where ever an Einstein or close to one is in this world, it would be smart for America to bring them here where they can live good and maximize their talents. America owns over half the Nobel Peace Prizes. We can't maintain that if we close our borders.

How people such as Google, think NASA is in terms of demographics:



How NASA actually is:

[Gator]

How NASA actually is:

I did not realize NASA is a white supremacist organization.     Jone says you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist.  Is that you in the rear?  If so, you can answer a burning question.  The man to the right looks Jewish - how did he get into your group?  I doubt his ancestors landed at Plymouth Rock.   

Slumba, you know full well the value of attracting the best and brightest for scientific research and for business applications of science.   

 

[Slumba]

I did not realize NASA is a white supremacist organization.     Jone says you are smart enough to be a rocket scientist.  Is that you in the rear?  If so, you can answer a burning question.  The man to the right looks Jewish - how did he get into your group?  I doubt his ancestors landed at Plymouth Rock.   

Slumba, you know full well the value of attracting the best and brightest for scientific research and for business applications of science.

One of the Oracle at Delphi's prophetic statements:

Love of money and nothing else will ruin Sparta.

I decry America trying to be an empire, which is something the neocons have basically been pushing for the last 30+ years.

It might be temporarily, good for the stock market to let in the top 1% of the world. 

At current population levels, that means ... 67 million new people imported into the country.  Go ahead and gather support from more than 1 D or R for your proposal.  I'll wait...

What I want is, for America to be a Republic, with a capital R.

We don't have to be the hyperpower; it's enough if we limit immigration, kick out all the illegals, and take care of our own. 

We should be free to develop along the existing lines we have of culture, religion, ethnicity.

I'll point out Nikki Haley (along with Mitt Romney, who never met a liberal Democrat he didn't bend over for) as an example:

When the SJWs , backed by the force of the media, came to desecrate a Southern symbol (the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia), she had no emotional, cultural, or ethnic connection to it, and didn't understand its importance to people. 

That is part of the reason why she acted as she did - IMHO it was dishonorable and craven. 

Meanwhile, her own culture and its symbols, she engaged in and embraced.

[pitbull]

I have a friend from India who was brought here under just such circumstances.  His wife too.  Once integrated into American society, they had two daughters.  (One is my daughter's age.)  My observation is that those two children are among the most intellectually gifted students I have ever known.  They are a credit to our society and are the thinking head of our next generation.

It doesn't matter to racists (aka slumbas) whether they are the smartest people in the world. They are not white and therefore beneath them and not welcome in THEIR America.


I wonder why open racism is tolerated on the board. And this is what bothers me about trump's win - it emboldened and gave voice to racists, xenophobes, bigots and all kinds of filth from the gutters of America 


http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/kkk-celebrating-trumps-election-with-victory-parade/

[Slumba]

It doesn't matter to racists (aka slumbas) whether they are the smartest people in the world. They are not white and therefore beneath them and not welcome in THEIR America.


I wonder why open racism is tolerated on the board. And this is what bothers me about trump's win - it emboldened and gave voice to racists, xenophobes, bigots and all kinds of filth from the gutters of America 


http://nypost.com/2016/11/11/kkk-celebrating-trumps-election-with-victory-parade/

"Racist" has no validity and carries no stigma, any longer; it has been used for 50+ years by indoctrinated leftists like yourself, whenever a person disagreed with their view.

If the population of Norway, were replaced 100% by the refugees currently coming into the EU, would it still be "Norway" in the same sense/meaning?  Of course not.

I have no problem with people of any kind - so long as they stay in their own country.

as the Wikileaks showed, the Democrats (and by extension, you pitbull) seek to entirely remove the current population of USA from having any political say in future elections via mass immigration.

Here is the PowerPoint from Podesta's email, from 2007 or 2008:

http://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/39309

"ensure that demographics is destiny"

"control the political discourse"

The Democrats and fellow "useful idiots" like yourself, seek me and my family's cultural, ethnic, religious (because such progressives don't like religion unless it is neutered), and political dispossession. 

From the country that my family has been in since 1727.

You are a disgusting human being for supporting this, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

[Gator]

From the country that my family has been in since 1727.

Choose the appropriate response:

-  Or you sure it was not 1732, because that is when Oglethorpe received a charter for Georgia to become an asylum for debtors in British jails.

-  I bet your ancestors did not have a visa. 

-  That is over 100 years after Plymouth Rock, so you are a late arrival.  It is good the existing governance then was tolerant of newcomers, unlike today.

-  It does not count as America if your family had a hacienda in California because that was part of Mexico then, and not part of the US until over 100 years later.

Seriously, Slumba, that is impressive.  Few Americans can trace their roots that far back.  You get no credit points however.    We all came here from disparate pasts, yet here we stand equally ("here" being RWD or the US or in the eyes of God).   



 

[BillyB]

I wonder why open racism is tolerated on the board. And this is what bothers me about trump's win - it emboldened and gave voice to racists, xenophobes, bigots and all kinds of filth from the gutters of America 

Pitbull, most conservatives aren't racist although the racists get the most attention. After getting educated with facts by those who know immigration, I think Trump will be smart enough to see the value of immigrants. I do believe he will be harder on immigrants who commit crimes and do better background checks from those who come from Muslim nations. Actions like that are not actions of a racist but a wise man.

I'm a minority but I'm not offended by some of the posts of Trump supporters. They have their ideas for what's best for the country and what is hurting the country. They don't have access to some of the data Trump will be receiving about immigration and it's benefits and in the end, his most loyal supporters are going to be disappointed with him.

[fathertime]

I have no problem with people of any kind - so long as they stay in their own country.

Yeah, well then you have a big problem, because people from around the world are still moving here, and your segregated utopia isn't happening.

From the country that my family has been in since 1727.

You are a disgusting human being for supporting this, and you should be ashamed of yourself.

who cares when you say your family immigrated here...they were not the original inhabitants so you have to leave now, and go back to your 'home country'

"Racist" has no validity and carries no stigma, any longer; it has been used for 50+ years by indoctrinated leftists like yourself, whenever a person disagreed with their view.

Yes being a bigot does still carry a stigma, and in your case it is valid...you are wrong if you don't think it does.   


Fathertime! 

[fathertime]

It doesn't matter to racists (aka slumbas) whether they are the smartest people in the world. They are not white and therefore beneath them and not welcome in THEIR America.


I wonder why open racism is tolerated on the board. And this is what bothers me about trump's win - it emboldened and gave voice to racists, xenophobes, bigots and all kinds of filth from the gutters of America 

Temporarily it has given bigots more of a voice than they had.  Trump COULD put that all to rest if he chooses to.  We just gotta hope that is the direction he chooses to take, and he just used those angry voices for votes when he need them. 


Fathertime!

[pokerintherear]

Pitbull is that you BC? One disappears and the other appears.

[pitbull]

I'll point out Nikki Haley (along with Mitt Romney, who never met a liberal Democrat he didn't bend over for) as an example:

When the SJWs , backed by the force of the media, came to desecrate a Southern symbol (the Battle Flag of the Army of Northern Virginia), she had no emotional, cultural, or ethnic connection to it, and didn't understand its importance to people. 

That is part of the reason why she acted as she did - IMHO it was dishonorable and craven. 

Meanwhile, her own culture and its symbols, she engaged in and embraced.

Great job Nikki for removing the disgusting flag!!!!!

[Slumba]

Great job Nikki for removing the disgusting flag!!!!!

You just proved my point...

[Miquel Westano]

It doesn't matter to racists (aka slumbas) whether they are the smartest people in the world. They are not white and therefore beneath them and not welcome in THEIR America.


I wonder why open racism is tolerated on the board. And this is what bothers me about trump's win - it emboldened and gave voice to racists, xenophobes, bigots and all kinds of filth from the gutters of America 

I have never seen any group as smug, self righteous and full of hate as the modern "liberals" are.  You constantly paint all conservatives with one brush, while implying all liberals are well intentioned crusaders of justice and equality.

Well, take a look on the streets.  Once again, it is your party and people of peace rioting.  Look at the major cities and note most of the crime infested crap holes are the ones ran by your enlightened democrat party.

Take a look around the world and see where the poverty and crime is.  It will be in countries who promote the same tired old speech you do.

America was built to be better than the rest of the world.  It was built to allow all to come here and make their own way.  It was not built for the lazy to come here and be taken care of.  It is time to get back to self reliance.  It is time to ignore the accusations of the left and shake off the guilt they attempt to place on the successful.

I want my grandchildren to grow up to enjoy the fruits of their efforts, not be forced to share with people who wont work themselves.

[pitbull]

I have never seen any group as smug, self righteous and full of hate as the modern "liberals" are.  You constantly paint all conservatives with one brush, while implying all liberals are well intentioned crusaders of justice and equality.

Well, take a look on the streets.  Once again, it is your party and people of peace rioting.  Look at the major cities and note most of the crime infested crap holes are the ones ran by your enlightened democrat party.

Take a look around the world and see where the poverty and crime is.  It will be in countries who promote the same tired old speech you do.

America was built to be better than the rest of the world.  It was built to allow all to come here and make their own way.  It was not built for the lazy to come here and be taken care of.  It is time to get back to self reliance.  It is time to ignore the accusations of the left and shake off the guilt they attempt to place on the successful.

I want my grandchildren to grow up to enjoy the fruits of their efforts, not be forced to share with people who wont work themselves.

Racism, xenophobia and bigotry are disgusting and I will speak against those both on the forum and in real life.


It is time to realize that Hillary won the popular vote by a far wider margin than Gore did. Trump is not America's president, he is a "whitelash" president. He seems to not have any strong convictions beyond making a deal, so hopefully he will govern accordingly.