Russian Women Discussion

RWD Discussion Groups => Starting Out => Topic started by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 10:54:57 AM

Title: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 10:54:57 AM
i planned on flying to Kiev August 18.  I developed a sinus/allergy infection and could not make the trip.  I planned on visiting a lady I have been chatting with on Skype for the past 6 months.  I informed the lady August 10 I could not make the trip.  She tells me she had paid $579 for a hotel/apartment for the dates of August 18-24.  She says it is impossible for her to get a refund.  She has asked me to send her $579 by western union.  What do you people think.  Scam?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: kievstar on August 17, 2010, 11:02:11 AM
Did you have her pay for the hotel or was it an apartment.  If it was a hotel you can get the money back more than likely.  If it is an apartment she is correct and time for you to pay up.  Next time best you pay and not the lady.

 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 11:04:40 AM
I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived.  I know I will never know the truth....I am happy to reimburse her if I feel she is being honest.  But, I don't want to send someone I've never met $579 simply because they ask me to.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 11:09:25 AM
RWD 10 commandments.....#1 - never send money to someone you have never met.   Please understand, I don't want to "stick" her with the bill, but I don't want to be scammed.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: facetrock on August 17, 2010, 11:13:22 AM
  My experience is that I always paid when I got there. The lady always reserved the flat for me. It could be they want money now because they couldnt rent it out for the week you wern't there. They want there loss of revenue. Its possible the owners are threatening the lady that she has to pay for the week.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 11:16:37 AM
thank you both for your replies.  I guess I have tough decision to make.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2010, 11:19:19 AM
Can you contact the hotel/apartment owner?  If you plan on travelling another time, they may be willing to accomodate you.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 17, 2010, 11:19:49 AM
thank you both for your replies.  I guess I have tough decision to make.

Dont send it.  And consider yourself lucky you got sick.. she was gonna take you shopping for sure... ;)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2010, 11:25:56 AM
But facetrock is right, the lady may have been threatened.

What city is this in?  Does the lady live in the same city the apartment/hotel was rented in?  I doubt she shelled out $579.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: kievstar on August 17, 2010, 11:30:52 AM
I think Sculpto is probably right.  

Did you tell her to reserve the apartment or hotel - also is it a hotel or an apartment?  In Ukraine hotels will give your money back if you cancel in time.  8 day notice is plenty of time.

You have been talking via skype for 6 months - any strange behavior you noticed?

One last question how old is this girl?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 17, 2010, 11:36:43 AM
This IMO, would largely depend on what conversation(s) transpired between you and the woman. Up until the moment you decided you were not going, what was the plan for paying for the flat? Did that suddenly change when you informed her you were not going? Did you communicate with her directly or through an agency? What was your correspondence like for 6 months?

IME, highly unlikely she prepaid for your flat. If she did and paid more than 1 day deposit she ain't playing with a full deck.

IMO, it sounds like a fleece
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: facetrock on August 17, 2010, 11:42:34 AM
  I am not so sure its a scam. If she reserved the flat with the promise you would pay upon arrival and then you dont show, the owner might have had the chance to rent it out if she hadn't reserved it. Now the owner wants his lost money and believe it or not he could take her to court there and win.
  I dont think she wants to tell you that part. Its possible she did pay a small down payment but that would probably be for only a day.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 17, 2010, 11:52:47 AM
You had been corresponding with a woman for the past 6 months. You were comfortable enough to make plans and visit this woman during that time. You more than likely condoned this woman to go ahead make arrangement and reservation for your accomodation as a convenience to you.

Due to circumstances you laid out to this forum, you can't make the scheduled rendezvous and notified this woman 8 days prior to your arrival. Presumably this lady never asked you for the money beforehand, and likely is left holding the bag if she did in fact had obligated herself, for your convenience, to reserve the accomodation.

Now all of the sudden you are skeptcal of this woman's sincerity and honesty - and worst, would rather 'trust' strangers in the internet who were provided with a very short version of YOUR story.

Sorry, IMHO $579 seem rather a small fee to pay this lady for bothering her with your nonsense the past 6 months - IN ADDITION to an apology.

Then after that, just leave her alone.

add: $579 works out to be about $82.72/day. Those numbers to me seem rather 'abstract' for some silly scamming scheme.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 17, 2010, 12:18:22 PM
She tells me she had paid $579 for a hotel/apartment for the dates of August 18-24.  She says it is impossible for her to get a refund.  

First of all she must have the documents confirming the payment.

Do not send money without documents first.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 12:54:38 PM
here is an update.  I have spent the last hour talking with this lady.  She continues to ask me to send her money through Western Union.  I have told her many times I will not go through Western Union.  I have asked her for the phone number to the "private" apartment ( evidently it is not a hotel ) and she refuses to give me the number.  She says they would not understand me.  I told her I have a friend who speaks Russian and this will not be a problem.  She says it is too late in the day.  I told her I will contact them tomorrow at 09:00 Kiev time.  She says this is not acceptable.

Yes, we have communicated via Skype for 6 months.  She seems honest, but there are red flags.  She says she has a job...I have seen pictures of her at company website.  But, I talk with her for 2 hours 4 or 5 days a week at different times.  I have always been curious as to when she could sleep, work or take care of her 2 children and talk with me at such different times of the day and night.  Also, in 6 months, I have only seen her in live video 1 time.  I have used my pc video consistently.  She says she does not have a pc camera and can not afford one.  Ok, I believe this.  The one time I saw her in video she said was from a cafe. 

She lives in Dnepropetrovsk.  We were to meet in Kiev.  She has told me she is considering moving back to Kiev as her father lives in a community about 2 hours from Kiev. 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 12:57:22 PM
continued from previous post.......  Bottom line, I would be happy to send her the money if this is legit.  But, in my way of thinking, if she is spent $579 would she not be willing to spend a few dollars ( which I would be happy to reimburse ) to scan a copy of the receipt and email this to me.  Come on, I don't think I am being unreasonable.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 01:08:37 PM
one last comment....Our conversation ended as follows......She said, "no other men have made me cry like this.  I will consider this as a lesson learned".  I said, "it is your choice.  Provide me with a copy of the bill and I will reimburse you immediately".  I have not received another message from her and I will not try to contact her again.  I am ready, willing and able to pay, but I will not subject myself to being scammed.  Maybe she is being 100% honest and I will lose contact with someone I have been chatting with for 6 months.  I don't want to appear to be cold hearted, I am trying to understand her point of view.  But, it seems unreasonable.  Maybe it's just a difference in the way business is conducted in Ukraine and America.

Btw, I flew to Dnepropetrovsk in Summer of 2008 to meet a lady I met through russianlovematch.  I believe this was a scam.  That said, this was the greatest experience of my life, flying to a foreign country where I do not speak the language and meet a lady in person with whom I met over the internet.  I am 42 years old, never married, no children so I have very little responsibilities and I continue to want to go to Dnepropetrovsk or Kiev and teach english on a 11 month contract.  Anyone here know anyone who has done this?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ECOCKS on August 17, 2010, 01:12:40 PM
Maybe I missed it but if this is an apartment there probably won't be a receipt to scan, assuming she can find a scanner. If she CAN find a scanner, why does she have so much trouble finding a webcam? If she has $579 to spend on an apt. upfront, why hasn't she bought a webcam for this 6 month relationship yet? Seems odd.

What work does she do that she is on the company's website but not at work during the day?

I have always been able to rent apartments by no more than one day's rent and promising to pay the rest on arrival.

Hindsight is 20-20 but this is why the rule exists on money. Should have kept her out of the loop on the payment side and now you're in a tough spot. I would also think you could move the reservation if it is a reputable apt company.

Good luck!
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 17, 2010, 02:11:07 PM
She wouldn't give you the direct number to the apt. owner is a tale-tell IMO.

You have to make the call there dub. Nobody here knows the degree of communication you had with this lady. If you had asked her to find and secure the flat, then thats another matter. According to you, you didn't. Where were you planning to stay 8 days ago? It all sounds pretty flakey to me. You might find out by telling her you changed your mind and are indeed coming.  What's the address?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 17, 2010, 02:33:58 PM
I've rented apartments many times in the FSU and never got a 'bill'. It would've been a very easy thing for this woman to just give him a 'fake' name and number just to pretend she/he is the owner of the apartment if this was an eleborate scheme to scam this guy. Maybe she's too dumb to think her scamming ways through, or just dumb enough to get involve with him in the first place.

Now all of the sudden the OP is interested doing an 11-month language teaching tour in the same place instead of speaking with this woman and telling her maybe to postpone the meeting 1 or 2 weeks later. But no....

Whatever I say. It's all yours folks....
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 03:00:00 PM
yes, i have bent over backwards.  I have asked for us to meet at a later date.  she says this is impossible.  I think this thread is taking a life of it's own.  ;D  I appreciate the feedback from everyone.  maybe it gives others something to think about.  Good luck to all.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 17, 2010, 03:03:09 PM
If she has $579 to spend on an apt. upfront, why hasn't she bought a webcam for this 6 month relationship yet? Seems odd.

I also find it to be odd that a mother of two children can not afford a web-camera but finds $579 to pay in advance (without any guarantees) for an apartment in other city that is 5-10 hours by train (depends on a train) from her city.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: SMS60 on August 17, 2010, 03:04:47 PM
Fork over her contact information. I will get a hold of her and find out whats going on. No need making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 03:09:15 PM
thanks for the comedy.  funniest post of the day.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: tim 360 on August 17, 2010, 03:38:35 PM
I also find it to be odd that a mother of two children can not afford a web-camera but finds $579 to pay in advance (without any guarantees) for an apartment in other city that is 5-10 hours by train (depends on a train) from her city.

Agree.  She can plunk down $579 for your apartment but--can't afford to buy a cheap ole webcam for your 6 months of talky/talky but $579 is no problem.  And "impossible" to see you another time?  You are being played for a sucker because you have been a sucker.  Where's PT Barnum when you need him.

C'mon admit it.  Something smells and you ain't innocent just because you were stupid.  Can't believe you wasted 6 months of constant talking to this person who has also got a job and two kids?  Honestly,  she really wants the $579 because she spent all that time talking to you nearly everyday.  Do some reading here before emailing and Skype.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Daveman on August 17, 2010, 04:21:45 PM
A lot of this doesn't add up... where did you find/meet her?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: kievstar on August 17, 2010, 04:30:39 PM
She did not pay for an apartment in Kiev if she lives in Dnepro.  I doubt she left her two children alone and traveled and paid for apartment.  She is taking you for a ride.  Your gut feeling is she is a scammer go with it.  I agree.

I am going to give you some advice.  Sign up for one of Jack's tours and learn how this process works.  Tour is a great way for a man to get his feet wet. 

You did the right thing to discuss this on the board. 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Rubicon on August 17, 2010, 04:47:06 PM
at most send her $55.00 which would be deposit for one day.  either that or send her nothing.  you told her you would make the arrangements and she decided to do it for you.  that smells very fishy.  be done with her.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: SMS60 on August 17, 2010, 04:54:23 PM
What an amazing women. For 6 months she was planning for him to cancel 8 days before he was to arrive to. Remarkable. I want to take her to Vegas.

I think she feels scorned and wants revenge.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: groovlstk on August 17, 2010, 05:12:13 PM
I'm flabbergasted at some of the situations I read about here. The people who wrote episodes for Macgyver wouldn't have even dreamed of putting him in such an impossible situation.  :cluebat:

To the OP: you spent 6 months Skyping with this woman 4-5 times per week and you don't even know her basic schedule of work and caring for her children?

If she's a scammer and waited 6 months to work her way up to the asking-for-money part, she sure is a shy one. ;D

FWIW, I've been to Dnepr more times than I care to recall, and even on a Westerner's salary -- a Westerner who is already used to living in a big city, btw -- it would be a challenging place to live.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 17, 2010, 05:35:27 PM
yes, i agree with you.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 17, 2010, 05:46:17 PM
The OP said he told her he'll be paying for the apartment when he arrived in Kiev. She lives in Dnep and the meeting point is in Kiev. Did he reserved the place himself, or did the woman? They're both relatively a distance away from Kiev.

The OP, in essence, arranged to meet a woman in Kiev WITHOUT any pre-arranged place to stay in if in fact she was kept from having to pay for any type of reservation.

*so humor me...*

Maybe if we can't get the woman's side of the story, the OP can gracefully scan us a paid plane ticket to Kiev, either a paper ticket or an online receipt/e-ticket as presumably he already have one being one week away from departure (Which I'm sure he had to cancel since he can't make the trip because of his allergy attack).

What do you folks think?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Daveman on August 17, 2010, 08:47:14 PM


What do you folks think?

Same thought as before.. this just doesn't add up...  ;D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 17, 2010, 08:51:51 PM

What do you folks think?

Unchanged. Dude is being had. Although after 6 months of communique one might think they would have communicated much more clearly than this, yanno?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: daveyj on August 17, 2010, 09:16:13 PM
Scam. 

If the owner wanted nonrefundable payment they would have asked for it up front and no way she paid the $600 for the apartment.

But I'm not saying that she was planning on scamming you from the beginning.  Probably she is upset that you cancelled at the last minute, and figures she'll extract some cash from you. 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: facetrock on August 17, 2010, 09:23:28 PM
  If it would have been me I would have sent her 30 bucks to go buy a cam. I really doubted she paid for the flat since she lives in Dnep and the flat was in Kiev.
   Did she tell you before you were supposed to arrive that she would pay for the flat or just reserve it? There were some red flags there and you knew it before hand but pressed on anyway. When things dont add up bad things happen.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 17, 2010, 09:42:42 PM
I only hope this woman didn't involve her father in arranging for their accommodation in Kiev relying solely on his word that he'll pay for the place once he touched ground. If this is true, then as a mother of 2, will she feel compelled to somehow reimburse her father for whatever the damage this cost? Or stick him with the loss?

6 months of correspondence at 4-5 times per week and hours each time seem like a whole lot of talk-time to me just to dispose of her like a used rag, worst, label her a scammer. Being oh-so-close to a planned arrival time - which HE cancelled - and not have any type of accommodation set (had no idea monies had to be placed to insure accommodation in a location that is a distance away for both of them? Gimme a break!) is just too hard for me to believe. If he isn't paying until he arrived, and if he didn't know anything about monies being placed to reserve a place - how did he know there'll be a place waiting for him/them when he/they get to Kiev a week away from his supposed departure?

Then in the same thread inquires about the possibility of going to Kiev on a language teaching mode and asked for some info and contacts. Callous at best.

This one is as a big as a rock it'll cast shadows before making impact.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Boethius on August 17, 2010, 10:11:29 PM
GQ, my husband said this is a scam.  He said she was cutting her losses.  He also said Western Union is no longer in Ukraine, though they use an agent - a small Ukrainian bank that is currently under investigation for fraud.

Her father is 2 hours out of Kiev.  That's almost halfway to Dnepropetrovsk, could be in Belarus, in Southern Ukraine, or in Russia.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ECOCKS on August 17, 2010, 10:23:27 PM
My gut feel, based on what we know, is that she was playing him.

I don't even see a wildcard on the 6 months of conversations. Some "scams" involve milking the cow patiently with several cuts rather than just going for the big throat slashing. He needed a quick decision and told us basic facts and answered a couple of questions. We gave him the feedback we could come up with and he had to gauge the advice against his feelings and impressions.

Too many things just don't seem right in this. The distances, the money, timing, no cam, funny "work" hours, so on and so on. So, he made some mistakes, maybe he's a bit naive. He'd been once and that apparently didn't work out either.

Could I be wrong? Sure. However, those of us that are cautious risk losing some opportunities in order to lower the risk of getting taken. He says he didn't ask her to do the apartment and that she refuses to accept a reschedule.

He's not the first guy to get here after a couple of hard knocks from bad judgment calls and learning how this process works.

He's a great case study either way in why the Commandments are so important to be understood regarding communications and money.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Gylden on August 17, 2010, 11:36:45 PM
Scorned woman (making up the story about the money spent), not necessarily a scammer, but just the same not worth further pursuit. Time to move on.

IMO
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: BC on August 17, 2010, 11:54:36 PM
Under the conditions described, wouldn't there be an effort to reschedule?  Airline tickets, visa?, now the apartment...

I know a sinus infection can be a real pain, but flying actually helps get the 'gunk' out.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 17, 2010, 11:57:12 PM
"Hold her steady....steady...der' she goes..." I'm holding steady on this one...

One week prior to departure: no tix, no place to stay (hotel? Apartment? Yah mean he didn't know? One week before departure? Really? You kiddin' me, right?), oh-where-oh-where will I stay? so ask the man in those blue suede shoes... technically 6 months planning (really?)...

He: Flake, make that a double!
She: Scammer? nope..Scorned: maybe. Likely mightily pi**ed off, too! Why the heck not. Someone had to pay the bills but only one is left on the table.

Steady boys....
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 18, 2010, 12:00:28 AM
He also said Western Union is no longer in Ukraine (...)

You are so, so close Boethius. She very likely knows that though I doubt he does...  

here is an update.  I have spent the last hour talking with this lady.  ***She continues to ask me to send her money through Western Union.***  I have told her many times I will not go through Western Union.

;)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Gylden on August 18, 2010, 12:06:42 AM
Under the conditions described, wouldn't there be an effort to reschedule?  Airline tickets, visa?, now the apartment...

I know a sinus infection can be a real pain, but flying actually helps get the 'gunk' out.

I had much the same thoughts. Earlier in my life I had plenty of sinus infections and while they are a PITA never slowed me down for anything.

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: BC on August 18, 2010, 01:58:29 AM
I had much the same thoughts. Earlier in my life I had plenty of sinus infections and while they are a PITA never slowed me down for anything.

They can make you miserable, but the negative (relative) air pressure and fast changes during takeoff and landing helped dislodge the mucous plug.  This happened a couple times with me, enough to catch the trend.  Were business trips, but you gotta do whatcha gotta do and a trip to FSU is one of those.  A good RW would probably understand, especially if forewarned.  She might even appreciate the visit even more and show off her nursing skills.

As a health professional, would think the OP has access to the best of meds.. enough to at least make the trip tolerable.  Even salt water helps a lot.

I'm not a rocket scientist, but from the info at hand some things aren't adding up quite right.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 18, 2010, 07:51:03 AM
Salt water is great! Especially if the water is lukewarm. But if you want to go in style, Omnaris is only 11 bucks and darn effective. 11 bucks and none of this would have happened.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: kievstar on August 18, 2010, 08:07:24 AM
Western Union still works in Ukraine we did one yesterday as we had to pay a vendor.  I checked with accounting and it went through and vendor got money.  We use a shaky logistic company out of Donetsk and they like payment via Western Union.  
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: groovlstk on August 18, 2010, 08:34:28 AM
6 months of correspondence at 4-5 times per week and hours each time seem like a whole lot of talk-time to me just to dispose of her like a used rag, worst, label her a scammer.

This bothers me too, and unfortunately for the OP and most posters here the only real issue is whether or not she's scamming him.

Quote
Being oh-so-close to a planned arrival time - which HE cancelled - and not have any type of accommodation set (had no idea monies had to be placed to insure accommodation in a location that is a distance away for both of them? Gimme a break!) is just too hard for me to believe. If he isn't paying until he arrived, and if he didn't know anything about monies being placed to reserve a place - how did he know there'll be a place waiting for him/them when he/they get to Kiev a week away from his supposed departure?

Then in the same thread inquires about the possibility of going to Kiev on a language teaching mode and asked for some info and contacts. Callous at best.

This one is as a big as a rock it'll cast shadows before making impact.

On another board there is an infamous thread containing photos and names of keyboard romeos who discover they have cancer the day before their trip, or learn that dear grandma passed while waiting in the departure lounge. The OP's last-minute cancellation is far from uncommon and any woman who has spent a little time in the "international dating" arena knows that at this point the relationship is dead -- if there was even one to begin with.

It's funny how when guys travel on WMVMs there are inevitably women who are no-shows or who cancel just before the proposed meeting, the immediate assumption is that they were scammers or had local BFs or were meeting other Westerners who were arriving that weekend. Maybe they all just had sinus infections.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Boethius on August 18, 2010, 09:11:56 AM
Quote
Western Union still works in Ukraine we did one yesterday as we had to pay a vendor.  I checked with accounting and it went through and vendor got money.  We use a shaky logistic company out of Donetsk and they like payment via Western Union. 


Read what I posted.  WU uses a Ukrainian agent that is currently under investigation.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 10:21:07 AM
Scorned woman (making up the story about the money spent), not necessarily a scammer, but just the same not worth further pursuit. Time to move on.

IMO


Gylden
I agree.  Some people just try to take advantage of situation.

I had much the same thoughts. Earlier in my life I had plenty of sinus infections and while they are a PITA never slowed me down for anything.

My friend had to take sometimes more than a week off work. She had fewer, headache, facial and ear pressure, bad breath and cough, the colored nasal discharge sometimes dripping spontaneously also not a pretty sight either.   
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2010, 02:21:48 PM
There are a number of questions that have been asked that the OP chose to not respond to. Answers to those questions could shine quite a bit of light on this particular instance. The information he did provide looks to be the old gal is playing him.

If she paid $579 bucks on his behalf, that of a stranger then in my mind that would make her the fool.

He never stated any info about his flight, ticket or any other travel info despite being asked.

He never stated where he found this woman despite being asked.

He never stated the tone of their communications despite being asked.

He's intentionally leaving information out despite making some other posts in the same thread.


A sinus infection, and I've had them of many shapes, durations ect., you name it, I've had it. None that I've had would cause me to cancel such a trip.

Even with all the lack of information and the OP coming off as looking like he lost his big boy panties, I still think the woman is playing him and attempting to milk him for a few bucks. Obviously he comes off as an easy mark. She probably isn't a scammer but, she's no saint either.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 02:26:05 PM
Faux Pas, do you think we should also ask for his medical records?  ;D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2010, 02:31:41 PM
Faux Pas, do you think we should also ask for his medical records?  ;D

Olga, heh heh. There's really nothing in those questions that are of a personal nature IMO. He was the one who asked the question, one might assume, for a truthful answer. There can no honest answer without honest information and disclosure. Put poop in, get poop out kind of thing. The information he did disclose makes them both look errr "flakey" IMO  ;D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: SMS60 on August 18, 2010, 02:40:39 PM
GQ, my husband said this is a scam.  He said she was cutting her losses.

Who cares................. Not a scam........ but she was cutting her losses from a keyboard romeo.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 02:43:36 PM
Faux Pas, I just see that some members try to make "something bigger" of his simple question and situation  :D



Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2010, 02:46:57 PM
Faux Pas, I just see that some members try to make "something bigger" of his simple question  :D



It's the nature of the beast. Everyone is trying to give him an honest answer even though many conflict. The OP could likely had a better consensus if he would provide more information. Dont'cha think?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 03:26:04 PM
It's the nature of the beast.

Digging for a poop and make a big pile of it? Yes, some most likely enjoy it  ;D

I think he gave enough information and answered enough question. Your mileage may vary and it is fine with me.  :)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: CanadaMan on August 18, 2010, 03:47:13 PM
OK now it's time for my take (as if we need yet another opinion on this).

The OP came here for advice and got it in spades. The overwhelming consensus is that he shouldn't send her the money.

The chances are that she was sincere, at least until he canceled, because that's a huge amount of time to invest in a potential relationship.
She may well have felt scorned and wanted to take some kind of revenge to get even.

If she had planned to scam all along (unlikely), then the scam part would have had to take place once he had arrived in Ukraine, as she had no way of knowing he would cancel the last minute.

It would be interesting to know the ages of her kids and who was to care for them while she was away.

As far as GQBlues' request for a scan of the OP's plane ticket is concerned, what's the point?

I had thought of the ticket too, but not the way you have.

I was going to ask the OP how much money he lost due to canceling his ticket, just out of curiosity.

Why should he prove to you that he indeed bought his ticket? What would that accomplish?
He either did buy his ticket or he didn't.

If he didn't buy his ticket, why on earth would he come here asking whether or not to send her the money? Does that make sense?
Not buying his ticket means he had no intentions of ever going (sick or not).
It would mean he was playing a big game with her, from the get go. If HE was playing a game with HER, then why would he send her money now???

Think about it.



F.P.
>A sinus infection, and I've had them of many shapes, durations ect., you name it, I've had it. None that I've had would cause me to cancel such a trip.<

I have a sinus infection at the moment. It came on the heels of a cold. It's been more than 6 weeks and it still hasn't cleared up. I would not travel anywhere with this. It's not painful, but it drains the life out of you.

Olga
>Faux Pas, I just see that some members try to make "something bigger" of his simple question and situation<

It's been kind of slow here lately. This is the type of post that brings life back to the forum. :)

















Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2010, 04:01:55 PM

If he didn't buy his ticket, why on earth would he come here asking whether or not to send her the money? Does that make sense?
Not buying his ticket means he had no intentions of ever going (sick or not).
It would mean he was playing a big game with her, from the get go. If HE was playing a game with HER, then why would he send her money now???

Think about it.

I did, probably much more than I should have. If he didn't buy a ticket he obviously had no plans of going. How do we know he bought a ticket? Apparently he didn't make any accommodations arrangements either. Add those two together and he obviously didn't plan on going. Sounds to me, like he was kicking her to the curb. Lack of information in these situations lends itself to posters and posts running wild with scenarios. It's what we do  :D


Quote
F.P.
>A sinus infection, and I've had them of many shapes, durations ect., you name it, I've had it. None that I've had would cause me to cancel such a trip.<

I have a sinus infection at the moment. It came on the heels of a cold. It's been more than 6 weeks and it still hasn't cleared up. I would not travel anywhere with this. It's not painful, but it drains the life out of you.

Ah ya big wuss.  :) Put the big boy panties on and go. I've had the most gawd-awfullest  (I think that's a word) sinus infections and and have suffered much worse than traveling to Ukraine. Yeah it makes one feel bad but, it isn't "usually" debilitating. I suspect "IF" he had long range plans to visit this lady, actually made arrangements to do so, a sinus infection wouldn't stop him. It wouldn't me and that is what I base my opinion on

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 04:07:13 PM
I suspect "IF" ...


That's right only suspicions and "if's" and of course unlimited imagination  ;D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: CanadaMan on August 18, 2010, 04:14:23 PM
...If he didn't buy a ticket he obviously had no plans of going. How do we know he bought a ticket? Apparently he didn't make any accommodations arrangements either. Add those two together and he obviously didn't plan on going. Sounds to me, like he was kicking her to the curb.

Yes, IF he didn't buy a ticket and didn't make accommodation arrangements, then he didn't plan on going.
You know, we could pose these same hypotheticals on nearly every post to this site.
How many people prove every point they talk about in their posts?
As I recall, just one poster questioned the OP about his plane ticket (GQBlues).

Quote
Ah ya big wuss....Yeah it makes one feel bad but, it isn't "usually" debilitating. I suspect "IF" he had long range plans to visit this lady, actually made arrangements to do so, a sinus infection wouldn't stop him. It wouldn't me and that is what I base my opinion on

I was actually planning on making a trip this summer but have put it off because of this infection, so for me, it IS stopping me. (And no, I hadn't bought my ticket yet),
(and no, I will NOT prove that I have not bought my ticket!)   ;)




Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Boethius on August 18, 2010, 04:17:42 PM
We don't know the OP's medical condition, nor what his physician advised.  Flying when one has sinusitis can lead to serious complications.  Let's not speculate or insult the OP.

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 04:19:47 PM
I've had the most gawd-awfullest  (I think that's a word) sinus infections and and have suffered much worse than traveling to Ukraine.


Honestly I would rather offer to choose another time for meeting than to see a man suffering from his sinus infection more over with fewer, bad breath and colored nasal dripping, especially during our first date  :o

If a man did not ask me to pay and more over told me that he would pay himself I would understand it as he arranged everything. It is not a rocket science.  :D But again your mileage may vary  :D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 04:36:39 PM
I also would not like a sick person sitting next to me in the plane (10 hours flight  :o )  :-X
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Daveman on August 18, 2010, 04:40:27 PM


I was actually planning on making a trip this summer but have put it off because of this infection, so for me, it IS stopping me. (And no, I hadn't bought my ticket yet),
(and no, I will NOT prove that I have not bought my ticket!)   ;)



Scamadaman!  :evil:
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 18, 2010, 04:41:01 PM
I also would not like a sick person sitting next to me in the plane (10 hours flight  :o )  :-X

I don't suspect any of them would require your prior approval  ;D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: facetrock on August 18, 2010, 04:45:41 PM
  The OP did say that he had been to Ukraine before. If thats true he doesnt qualify for pure keyboard romeo status. But he did talk to her for 7 months before commiting to travel. Plenty long for a woman to be pissed if he suddenly cancelled at the last second.
   I think there is alot  we dont know and its hard to condemn either one of them.
I never have been seated next to a sick person on an airline flight, just Sumo wrestlers :(
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 04:48:44 PM
I don't suspect any of them would require your prior approval  ;D

Yeah, some people with infections don't care at all  :-X  and an epidemic has its chance.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 18, 2010, 05:19:49 PM
It would mean he was playing a big game with her, from the get go. If HE was playing a game with HER, then why would he send her money now???

Think about it.

That was the point. If he never bought the tix, then he very likely didn't have the intention to go in the first place - OR - found out he was short on cash. If either IS true, then:

a) I'd rather challenge the sentiment the woman is a scammer simply because a man comes in here posting woeful, one-sided tale.

b) Damned good chance the story about him telling her not to pay for the apartment is BS, too.

and c) if so, then I'd rather not be a party in helping someone in that suit so they can go and find another unsuspecting woman to play with...
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 18, 2010, 05:25:47 PM
As for plugged-nosed, snot-nosed, phlegmed knights in white shining armor goes....airline companies do in fact discourage air travel when your nostril pipework is clogged up as apparently there's a good chance you may blow-out your eardrum due to pressure in airplanes.

Having you drip from your nose is not kosher, let alone have something bursting out of your ears, too.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 05:28:32 PM
That was the point. If ...

the point based on what? just on if's and suppositions? Second guesser's game. That's all. What is a reason to think that he is a bad guy? After all why he would need to come to the forum and ask the question?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 18, 2010, 05:35:17 PM
Olga-

The OP was afforded a chance and was asked question relating to this silly story for the sake of clarification INSTEAD of demonizing another woman as being a scammer.  Is that really difficult for you to understand, or you're just being stubborn?

What is the reason to believe she's an evil, scamming woman?

You are taking the very same strides demonizing this woman as I am calling the OP a flake! Have that ever crossed your mind at all?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Daveman on August 18, 2010, 05:36:43 PM
Ahh! The "where are they now segment"...

"I want, people who do bad for me, after very much suffer..I want this..bad people need suffer.."  ... Anonymous Russian Philosopher Girl Who's Been Missing In Action For A While

I think we know where she might be now! Suffer you Last Minute Canceler!! Suffer!!  
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 05:49:49 PM
GQBlues,

The OP answered enough questions, at least as I see it.

How did they meet? Does it matter really? Obviously not in the bar or museum.

That's the problem when a new member comes to share his problem or dilemma the second guessers don't miss their chance to "demonize him "maybe he is smelling bad, maybe he is a  pervert, maybe he did something bad to her daughter, maybe he is a total jerk..."  

Demonizing a woman? Let's play a game maybe a girl who asking some money for her sick and dying mother is really a honest girl and you should send her some money?

Quote
What is the reason to believe she's an evil, scamming woman?

What is the reason not to believe if she just wants to take an advantage of situation. What is the reason to believe that she paid when she cannot afford a web-camera? Again we can make second guess and drag her daddy into the story  :D

BTW how can you be sure that she did not communicate with another 10 men during that 6 months or how can you be sure that he was scyping with the same girl all that time ;D

Web camera with microphone 130 hryvnias
http://buy-now.com.ua/category/web-camera/

$597 =  4710.33 hryvnias

Average salary (March 2010) - $242.84 (1,916hryvnias)

http://www.rbc.ua/rus/newsline/show/v_ukraine_srednyaya_zarplata_v_yanvare_2010_g_umenshilas_na_14_1_do_1_916_tys_grn_09032010
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 18, 2010, 05:59:29 PM
"I want, people who do bad for me, after very much suffer..I want this..bad people need suffer.."  ... Anonymous Russian Philosopher Girl Who's Been Missing In Action For A While


Oh, yes, she showed herself alive on scype just once sitting in a cafe and now he must pay!
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: tfcrew on August 18, 2010, 06:15:21 PM
I was wondering..why the refusal to send money Western Union?

One thing with  visiting and dealings over in Eastern Europe...anywhere for that matter- Don't get cheap on this ..it can cost too much.

As for this woman...she has two kids?

Does someone need an instant family this badly?

Best to scratch this and try again with greater fortitude.

And good luck there....
Karl

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ML on August 18, 2010, 07:57:25 PM
I only read the first page of responses, so this has probably been said.

1. One day of rental has always held apts for me, and that's over 20 apts in various FSU cities . . . business trips.

2. There aren't usually any receipts as we are used to in USA.  I always type up and print out a basic form before I leave USA.  Leave a few blanks here and there which are filled in when I hand over the money.  The FSU people usually think this is very strange, but they all go along with it; because it gets them their money..
Often, when a friend or associate is with me, I have them write out the same basic info in the local language.

3. I  doubt this woman was thinking scam from day 1.  But, when the opportunity arose she or someone she knows said:  "Hey, look.  Let's tell him you already paid and these generous AM always come through with a helping hand."

4. Since the rental was in a distant city, there is virtually no way she could have pulled it off from a distance . . . actually getting the money there.

5. She wouldn't have this much money to begin with.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: kievstar on August 18, 2010, 09:03:25 PM
Boethius the problem I have with you quoting your husband is that you and hubby live in Alberta Calgary.  When is the last time he lived 4 months straight in Ukraine with you? 

western union is fine. 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 19, 2010, 07:34:06 AM
Hello again everyone.
I came here to ask a simple question.  I am a novice in the FSU dating/relationship arena.  This is why I posted my question in the "just starting out" category. Maybe, over time, I will gain the experience some of you have so I can attain the "expert" status some of you posters have achieved.  I can now see I did not provide "enough" information in my question.  Let me add more info...

1) I met this lady at ukrainedate.com

2) I offered to send this lady money so she could purchase a web cam.  she refused saying it would be silly because web cams in Ukraine cost $100.  I don't care if it cost $5 or $100, I would rather pay this little amount of money upfront rather than pay for a flight and hotel and treat someone to an all expense paid week of meals and gifts only to discover she is a "pro dater".

3) I live south of Nashville, TN.  I would have flown from Atlanta to Jfk to Kiev.  2 years ago I flew from Atlanta to Vienna to Dnepropetrovsk.  Evidently, Delta no longer flies to Dnepropetrovsk hence we were to meet in Kiev ( her choice ). 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 07:39:27 AM
Hello again everyone.
I came here to ask a simple question.  I am a novice in the FSU dating/relationship arena.  This is why I posted my question in the "just starting out" category. Maybe, over time, I will gain the experience some of you have so I can attain the "expert" status some of you posters have achieved.  I can now see I did not provide "enough" information in my question.  Let me add more info...

1) I met this lady at ukrainedate.com

2) I offered to send this lady money so she could purchase a web cam.  she refused saying it would be silly because web cams in Ukraine cost $100.  I don't care if it cost $5 or $100, I would rather pay this little amount of money upfront rather than pay for a flight and hotel and treat someone to an all expense paid week of meals and gifts only to discover she is a "pro dater".

3) I live south of Nashville, TN.  I would have flown from Atlanta to Jfk to Kiev.  2 years ago I flew from Atlanta to Vienna to Dnepropetrovsk.  Evidently, Delta no longer flies to Dnepropetrovsk hence we were to meet in Kiev ( her choice ). 


10bdub
With your prior experience one might think you would have secured some lodgings and bought your plane ticket in advance. Is there any particular why you wouldn't other than you do everything last minute or didn't really plan on going?

On your first trip, did you make any arrangements in advance?

FWIW, I think the old gal is trying to fleece you but, it seems she may have some degree of legitimacy for doing so.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 19, 2010, 07:45:38 AM
4) My sinus/allergy problem in a continuing battle.  I consider my one and only trip to Ukraine 2 years ago the most exciting event of my life.  Going to a foreign country ( for the first time ) not understanding the language, and relying and trusting my well being on "locals" was a life changing and learning experience.  I opened myself up to a world I new nothing about.  I would recommend to everyone who can afford to travel to ANY foreign country to do this.  For me, going alone was special.

5) Our conversation was always pleasant.  I don't care to share all the details of 6 months of communication but it was always pleasant.  Pleasant does not mean I was 100% honest with her or she was 100% honest with me.  Who can know for sure?

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 19, 2010, 07:57:25 AM
I feel I should apologize for a misspelled word in 4) above.  new=knew.

I post this additional info to please some of you here.  I did not write looking for support or bashing.  Only a question.

Should i post here in the future, I will make sure not to ask a second question in the same thread.  I suppose I should read, understand, and agree to all posting requirements.  I apologize the second question ( teaching in ukraine ) was too much for some to handle.  I simply thought this board exists for questions and answers.

To those of you with class I thank you.  For those of you without, maybe your children and grandchildren will develop it through their friends or society at large.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: CanadaMan on August 19, 2010, 08:59:45 AM

...Should i post here in the future, I will make sure not to ask a second question in the same thread.  I suppose I should read, understand, and agree to all posting requirements.  I apologize the second question ( teaching in ukraine ) was too much for some to handle.  I simply thought this board exists for questions and answers.

To those of you with class I thank you.  For those of you without, maybe your children and grandchildren will develop it through their friends or society at large.

And so this officially ends the 'hotel refunds' post.
...or maybe not?

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 09:12:07 AM
I feel I should apologize for a misspelled word in 4) above.  new=knew.

I post this additional info to please some of you here.  I did not write looking for support or bashing.  Only a question.

Should i post here in the future, I will make sure not to ask a second question in the same thread.  I suppose I should read, understand, and agree to all posting requirements.  I apologize the second question ( teaching in ukraine ) was too much for some to handle.  I simply thought this board exists for questions and answers.

To those of you with class I thank you.  For those of you without, maybe your children and grandchildren will develop it through their friends or society at large.

You know maybe the next time you wish to ask a question perhaps you could just give us all some advance notice. That way, after you ask the question we could all just line up and give you nods of agreement to everything you say.
 :cluebat:
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 19, 2010, 09:41:23 AM
So.. at risk of kicking a dead horse...

As far as I can tell.. we still do not know if the OP had an advance ticket purchased.. either way.. that is not conclusive.. maybe he has miles and would have been flying first class at the last minute.. or maybe the exact opposite..

however...

If the lady took time off work.. made arrangements with a relative or friend to care for her children.. went out and bought a new dress.. maybe had her hair and nails done.. had lots of hopes about his arrival.. she may have taken his cancellation VERY hard.  In such a scenario.. is she a scammer?  Should she be reimbursed?  Would a gentleman simply ask if she had incurred any expenses and go out of his way to cover those expenses?  Also.. her story of not being able to reschedule is believable.. she had a job.. she may have had to jump through hoops to get time off.. maybe even bribing someone to cover for her or trade vacation slots or paying off an uncooperative boss.  Plenty of reasons for her to be very angry IF she was for real.

On the other hand..

ukrainedate.com has no system of verification available.  The fact that there was only one cam chat in all those months which supposedly came via an internet cafe is HIGHLY suspicious to me.. reason.. I understand I was in Russia and not Ukraine.. but.. I was in at least 9 different, LARGE internet cafes in St P.. usually 30 but up to 100 computers.. I did not see even one system with Skype loaded nor with a webcam.  Maybe its different in Ukraine.. but.. even remembering back to my Odessa trip and the two i-net cafes I used there.. and the one in Kherson.. again.. no skype.. no web cams.. I also find it odd that someone could afford a computer and i-net connection but would claim to not afford a webcam.. even if it cost $100.  There are TONS of women on social networks with webcams connected to laptops they over paid for connected to over priced high speed connections that they somehow manage to pay for.  (they don't eat, thus maintaining their slim figures)

In my paranoid way of thinking.. the OP dodged a bullet.. there are a number of very nasty scenarios that could have taken place had he actually arrived in Kiev. 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ECOCKS on August 19, 2010, 11:10:28 AM
Hang in there 10b, if you let some of the jerks here get to you too much you'll never survive in the FSUW long-term.

Hey Eric! Can you send me that picture of Sarah from your avatar? I have a shrine here in the foyer of my home where we say a little prayer for the country as we come and go everyday, it would be useful to place in the center of the shelf.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: groovlstk on August 19, 2010, 11:15:55 AM
To those of you with class I thank you.  For those of you without, maybe your children and grandchildren will develop it through their friends or society at large.

I take it those with "class" are those who told you what you wanted to hear - i.e., keep your $597 and tell her to flake off?

 :ROFL:

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Voyager36 on August 19, 2010, 11:16:38 AM
So.. at risk of kicking a dead horse...

however...

If the lady took time off work.. made arrangements with a relative or friend to care for her children.. went out and bought a new dress.. maybe had her hair and nails done.. had lots of hopes about his arrival.. she may have taken his cancellation VERY hard.  In such a scenario.. is she a scammer?  Should she be reimbursed?  Would a gentleman simply ask if she had incurred any expenses and go out of his way to cover those expenses?  Also.. her story of not being able to reschedule is believable.. she had a job.. she may have had to jump through hoops to get time off.. maybe even bribing someone to cover for her or trade vacation slots or paying off an uncooperative boss.  Plenty of reasons for her to be very angry IF she was for real.
no web cams.. I also find it odd that someone could afford a computer and i-net connection but would claim to not afford a webcam.. even if it cost $100.  There are TONS of women on social networks with webcams connected to laptops they over paid for connected to over priced high speed connections that they somehow manage to pay for.  (they don't eat, thus maintaining their slim figures)
 
I was thinking along the lines of that part.
It seems like she was arranging for the accomodation, she likely has some friend or relative book the apartment, probably with a deposit of a night's rental. (maybe 500 or 600 griven) She would have had to buy tickets to Kiev, and take time off from work. I know from experience, rail tickets are sometimes difficult to get in high summer, so she would buy those in advance. Accomodation is also more expensive in Kiev. She's also already booked time off work, and at this late date probably cannot get a tourist package somewhere else, so in all likelyhood has had her vacation ruined or at least disrupted.

If it were me I would probably send at least $250 or $300 as compensation for bailing out at the last minute.

It's possible that she was not totally on the up & up, but I would be horrified to think that I would be screwing someone over like that, especially after 6 months of communication.

On one hand - If she really was a scammer (doubtful, after 6 months), I would be losing about a day's pay. If she is telling the truth and has lost money for accomodation, train fare, disrupted holiday etc, she could be screwed for a month or two's wages. Are we really so callous as men  that we act like this?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 11:37:40 AM


On one hand - If she really was a scammer (doubtful, after 6 months)...

Here is a situation that took place in our county.

A woman with a decent job, she is a teacher, paying for her goods put her wallet above other wallet left on the counter by a previous customer, after she simply grabbed two wallets. She was very surprised when police arrived right to her house. She forgot about the store's camera.

Most likely she was not planning it when she went shopping...  but she decided not to miss such opportunity.  
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 19, 2010, 12:48:28 PM
Perhaps the OP should ask someone like Anastasia Ash to intervene with a translated phone call.. or some other well seasoned interpretor with a perfect reputation..

Maybe there is a chance to get to the bottom of it all?

If, in the unlikely case she is real and did incur losses.. she would therefore be entitled to some kind of compensation.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 01:06:10 PM
Sculpto, it is more likely a question "Who's being naive?"

Western men who is thinking that a FSU woman with two children easily gets "a monthly salary or sometimes two monthly salaries" out of her pocket to pay for someone she never met? or FSU women who do such things?  :D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 19, 2010, 01:11:17 PM
Sculpto, it is more likely a question "Who's being naive?"

Western men who is thinking that a FSU woman with two children easily gets "a monthly salary or sometimes two monthly salaries" out of her pocket to pay for someone she never met? or FSU women who do such things?  :D

I agree 100% Olga.. the only reason I suggest it is if it was me.. I would want my conscience to be 100% clear.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 01:29:47 PM
Sculpto, the first mistake is to think that women are very naive lambs, especially women with children.  ;)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: tim 360 on August 19, 2010, 01:46:21 PM
Sculpto, the first mistake is to think that women are very naive lambs, especially women with children.  ;)

So true. So true. So True.  Some of the truest words in this thread. :ROFL: :ROFL: :ROFL: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Voyager36 on August 19, 2010, 01:54:29 PM

Sculpto, it is more likely a question "Who's being naive?"

Western men who is thinking that a FSU woman with two children easily gets "a monthly salary or sometimes two monthly salaries" out of her pocket to pay for someone she never met? or FSU women who do such things?  :D

Olga, unless they were planning to sleep on a park bench, she must have made some arrangements for an apartment, as clearly the guy didn't. She would probably have had someone book the place, and probably had to pay for one night at least. Mrs. V was in Kiev last summer, and it was very difficult to find a place to stay as the hotels were mostly booked up.
Not to mention the lady had the hassle of having her vacation cancelled at the last minute.
Did she exaggerate the costs? - very likely
Is she out-of pocket for some expenses? Very likely.
Therefore I  would still send a couple hundred bucks as compensation for pulling the plug at the last minute.

I agree 100% Olga.. the only reason I suggest it is if it was me.. I would want my conscience to be 100% clear.

That was my thought too...
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 19, 2010, 02:00:48 PM
Sculpto, the first mistake is to think that women are very naive lambs, especially women with children.  ;)

I don't disagree Olga.. but.. Russians are in general the first to suspect other Russians of wrong doing.. am I right or not?  :)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 02:18:22 PM

Did she exaggerate the costs? - very likely


as everything else - very likely  ;) How much the OP knows about her after 6 months of skyping? I see not too much

"I have always been curious as to when she could sleep, work or take care of her 2 children and talk with me at such different times of the day and night."

She was told not to pay. Normally, a woman would discuss cost and method of payment with a man in advance especially if she would be asked by a man to arrange the place of meeting, and if she would be asked to pay in advance by an owner of apartment   she would contact the OP first because $579 is not so small sum of money.  Normally, a woman who has financial troubles to buy a simple web camera and spend some money for video chat in the internet cafe will not spend even $50 (that could be 1/4 of her salary) on a person she never met. Having two children a woman will not deal with a "dark horses" in the market who would threaten her with payments. A honest woman who honestly paid would not refuse to give information on who she paid to to help to resolve the problem.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: SMS60 on August 19, 2010, 02:27:49 PM
I don't know if this is relevent but it was taken from the RWD Glossary.


 :noidea:


Keyboard Romeo: a Western man who is content with corresponding/chatting with one or more FSUW for months and even years on end, not giving much consideration to the fact that actually jumping on a plane and visiting them could be much more constructive for both.

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: GQBlues on August 19, 2010, 02:31:29 PM
For those of you without, maybe your children and grandchildren will develop it through their friends or society at large.

What croc of pshyth!! Coming from a guy absent of any sense of decency for leading someone on, have the audacity to leave her hanging, then if that wasn't enough, label her as a scammer...

Phew, you're a joke!...
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 02:33:25 PM
I don't disagree Olga.. but.. Russians are in general the first to suspect other Russians of wrong doing.. am I right or not?  :)

Sculpto, I doubt any reasonable Western men would pay $500 for something he never have chance to see and without any guaranties. The same in Russia. When people rent an apartment in Russia they usually check the apartment first at least to know what they pay for. Reasonable people in Russia renting an apartment usually have a civil contract with the apartment's owner and I also have never had a problem asking for a notice of receipt from an owner of apartment (exact sum of money and renting period, and owners passport number and signature) and I have never been refused of such notice.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 19, 2010, 03:05:08 PM
Sculpto, I doubt any reasonable Western men would pay $500 for something he never have chance to see and without any guaranties. The same in Russia. When people rent an apartment in Russia they usually check the apartment first at least to know what they pay for. Reasonable people in Russia renting an apartment usually have a civil contract with the apartment's owner and I also have never had a problem asking for a notice of receipt from an owner of apartment (exact sum of money and renting period, and owners passport number and signature) and I have never been refused of such notice.

Olga I just dealt with two apartment owners in St P.  I had to make a 1 night deposit via Western Union.  Upon arrival at the first apartment.. which by the way sucked.. I had to sign a contract..

The fact of the contract was rather laughable since they were not providing visa registry as required the contract itself would not be enforceable to my understanding of the law.. they also demanded payment for the entire duration I would be staying in the apartment.. in cash.. when I presented US dollars they inspected each $100 very carefully and gave me dirty looks.

6 days later when I was in a furious state of mind over the lack of water and absolute lack of service from the owner and her agent.. I demanded a partial refund from the rental agency.. the owners rep came to meet me and tried to pass me a "funny $50".  She pleaded innocence but i pointed out to her that the 50 did not have the magentic strip and that the watermark was not correct.. she shrugged and claimed she got the money from the bank.. hahaha yeah right..

The second apartment also required full payment in advance but did not try the contract BS...

Neither owner provided a receipt. 

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 03:17:35 PM

Neither owner provided a receipt.  

I would refuse to deal with the owners who would not write me a note that they received the money. But as I already said I have never been refused such note. To ask for the quarantines and have it is absolutely normal and usual.  


The rental agencies must provide a receipt (otherwise they most likely run their business illegally)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 03:19:34 PM
I have rented numerous flats in Russia. Both with 1 night deposit and my promise that I would be there to rent with no deposit. In Petersburg the apt owner insisted on a one night deposit for a two week rental. That transaction for one night deposit was handled through paypal. The transfer guy had the key and showed me to the flat. The owner never show up but did call about halfway through visit. We couldn't communicate as we didn't speak each others language. Two days before the end of my trip the owners rep showed to collect the money I owed. A very attractive young RW who spoke excellent English. I paid and received no receipt. She said she would bring one back but did not. I figured what the hell? I'd already been there 10-11 nights at that point.

My remaining rentals were all in Siberia from the same woman. There I never paid a deposit and never paid until leaving. Never received a receipt. Perhaps I was just lucky or this is a standard mode of business in Russia or the particular people I dealt with. I dunno.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 19, 2010, 03:20:32 PM
I would refuse to deal with the owners who would not write me a note that they received the money. But as I already said I have never been refused such note. To ask for the quarantines and have it is absolutely normal and usual.   

I think most of the owners that are renting to foreign people are trying to keep out of the taxman's view.. leave no paper trail..
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 03:24:35 PM
I think most of the owners that are renting to foreign people are trying to keep out of the taxman's view.. leave no paper trail..

That's right. As anywhere else some people in Russia try to avoid the taxation  :D

But usually people in Russia do not go to tax offices with the given written notice from the owners.  :)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Voyager36 on August 19, 2010, 07:24:11 PM



She was told not to pay. Normally, a woman would discuss cost and method of payment with a man in advance especially if she would be asked by a man to arrange the place of meeting, and if she would be asked to pay in advance by an owner of apartment   she would contact the OP first because $579 is not so small sum of money.  

I didn't see that, are you sure? This is what he said:

I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived.

Which is a bit odd in itself, arriving in Kiev in summertime, with nothing reserved and hoping to find something at the drop of a hat?

  Maybe it's just a difference in the way business is conducted in Ukraine and America.

No, it's much the same principle in America. If you fail to live up to your promises you usually have to pay.
If I make a promise to a customer and one of my employees fails to deliver, it will usually cost me a couple of hundred, regardless of whether they had any actual loss due to the delay.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 07:38:41 PM
If you fail to live up to your promises you usually have to pay.


But he told her not to pay  ;)

Quote
I didn't see that...

That the problem, but it's my problem because I'm not a Western man  ;D

I see it as the red flags that the women was told not to pay, but she "paid" anyway and told him about what she did only when he said that he can not come due to his health problem, plus she doesn't want to give him any information on who she paid to  ::) I just don't buy such actions, especially when a woman doesn't have any money  ;)

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Voyager36 on August 19, 2010, 07:48:25 PM
But he told her not to pay  ;)

Sorry, what post was that?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ECOCKS on August 19, 2010, 07:49:10 PM
I keep seeing mentions that he was planning on "just showing up" and magically finding a place to stay. I don't see that. I showed up for my first apartment in Ukraine after emailing an agreement to rent a place for two weeks, then paid when I arrived. Other guys have done much the same, refusing to pay more than a single night's deposit via WU and telling the landlord they would pay in cash. Others have just given an assurance and stated they don't do CC transactions. There are always hotels for a night or two as a fallback.

I did have a friend prepay a long weekend at a place in Odessa once but we had a level of faith in each other from meetings in person and discussions via phone. It was also my option to just say no and go to the Londonskaya for a night and sort it out the next day.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 07:56:47 PM
Sorry, what post was that?

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12271.msg240664#msg240664
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: CanadaMan on August 19, 2010, 08:56:44 PM
I'm afraid this post has finally reached the stage where, unless the OP comes back and tells us:

-Yes, I DID buy a plane ticket for the trip, (or No)
-Yes, she had made plans to leave her kids with xxxxx, (or No)
-Yes she had made plans to be off work for x days (or No)
(when you chat with someone for 6 months and make arrangements with them to come visit, then the woman is notified when you buy your ticket, and the man is notified about arrangements the women is making with her children/work etc.)
That's just life; has ANYONE here ever done differently?)


we can be pontificating until the cows come home about whether he was right or she was right in their actions.

This could actually be the mid-way point in this thread! <gosh>   ::)




Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Daveman on August 19, 2010, 09:07:22 PM
something just doesn't add up. Something is missing... hmmm... ahhh, it's therapy! They both need therapy!  I knew we'd figure this out eventually!

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 09:12:49 PM
Dave, Gestalt group therapy?  :D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Voyager36 on August 19, 2010, 09:16:45 PM
But he told her not to pay  ;)

Sorry, what post was that?

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=12271.msg240664#msg240664

No, that's not what it says!
he didn't 'tell her not to pay", he "Didn't ask her to pay" - two different things.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Voyager36 on August 19, 2010, 09:22:20 PM
I keep seeing mentions that he was planning on "just showing up" and magically finding a place to stay. I don't see that. I showed up for my first apartment in Ukraine after emailing an agreement to rent a place for two weeks, then paid when I arrived.

Right, but he didn't do any of that, hedoesn't mention making any preparations whatsoever.

 
Quote
Other guys have done much the same, refusing to pay more than a single night's deposit via WU and telling the landlord they would pay in cash. Others have just given an assurance and stated they don't do CC transactions. There are always hotels for a night or two as a fallback.

We had a darn difficult time finding a hotel upon arriving by train in the morning. The first 6 or 8 that we tried were all sold out.

So he was planning on arriving in the late afternoon, meeting the lady for the first time, and having the hassle of running around looking for a hotel?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 09:25:38 PM
No, that's not what it says!
he didn't 'tell her not to pay", he "Didn't ask her to pay" - two different things.

Honestly, I don't know how it is different. As I said before if a man told me he would pay I would understand it as "not to pay"  ::) 
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 09:37:16 PM
I'm afraid this post has finally reached the stage where, unless the OP comes back and tells us:

Actually, he did come back yet, ignored the pointed questions intentionally that would help others determine if he should actually send this lady money. Some of us detect 10dub was just looking to consensus to agree with him that he shouldn't sent the money. I think he should even though it is against the hallowed 10 commandments.

Quote
-Yes, I DID buy a plane ticket for the trip, (or No)
-Yes, she had made plans to leave her kids with xxxxx, (or No)
-Yes she had made plans to be off work for x days (or No)
(when you chat with someone for 6 months and make arrangements with them to come visit, then the woman is notified when you buy your ticket, and the man is notified about arrangements the women is making with her children/work etc.)
That's just life; has ANYONE here ever done differently?)

He stated he didn't buy a plane ticket and he didn't make accommodations. He did state that said lady made some "sort" of preparations for his arrival. One being his lodgings, which is highly suspect


Quote
we can be pontificating until the cows come home about whether he was right or she was right in their actions.

This could actually be the mid-way point in this thread! <gosh>   ::)


CM, you seem to have an interest in this thread dying a quicker death. Any particular reason? 10dub seems to be seeking some vilification for not sending this woman the money she said she is out due to his cancellation. He claims an infection 8 days prior is the reason for his cancellation. Yet he made no arrangements for flight or flat. Much here points to dude playing the keyboard romeo. He said he would send her the money but, he read here to never send money to a woman you never met. IMO, that doesn't apply here in this situation and I doubt the woman is out anything other than the 6 months she wasted on this guy.

His whole story reeks IMO. Looks like KBR busted
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 09:42:00 PM
Right, but he didn't do any of that, hedoesn't mention making any preparations whatsoever.


My husband arranged an apartment in Moscow just a week before his flight.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 09:43:18 PM
My husband arranged an apartment in Moscow just a week before his flight.

Was that his first or second trip?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 09:50:10 PM
Maybe 5th or 6th.  He found a rental agency through internet, paid for first day. After he send me information with address, names and phone numbers.  The rest he paid when he arrived.
 

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 10:10:45 PM
Maybe 5th or 6th.  He found a rental agency through internet, paid for first day. After he send me information with address, names and phone numbers.  The rest he paid when he arrived.
 



Sah-weet.  ;D Was this a regular practice of his? Did he regularly wait last minute to make arrangements to visit you after 6 months communication?
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 10:15:24 PM
Sorry, I have made a mistake. It was not a week before. It was less. I found our old papers we saved. He purchased the tickets from Delta on August 10th, his flight to Moscow was on August 15th. After tickets he arranged the apartment.  
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 10:23:05 PM
Sah-weet.  ;D Was this a regular practice of his? Did he regularly wait last minute to make arrangements to visit you after 6 months communication?

Actually when we decide to go to cruise we can buy it right a week before departure  ;D The time depends on our job. And at that time the time also depended only on his job.  Our first meeting was in Saint Petersburg after 3 month of phone communication  ;) One time we canceled our cruise right two days before departure again because of our job.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 19, 2010, 10:39:11 PM
Actually when we decide to go to cruise we can buy it right a week before departure  ;D The time depends on our job.


Hardly comparing apples to apples, is it? A cruise and a trip to Ukraine is hardly comparable. Unless of course you are going to catch a cruise from Ukraine to meet a woman you have been communicating with for 6 months.

Quote
And at that time the time also depended only on his job.  Our first meeting was in Saint Petersburg after 3 month of phone communication  ;) One time we canceled our cruise right two days before departure again because of our job.

Olga, you avoided answering the question just like the OP. Was that on purpose?  :D I've cancelled a number of travel plans for various reasons. Again, there's no comparison. There is a significant savings for purchasing a flight to Ukraine in advance. Under normal circumstances, one who "plans" to travel will take advantage of that. I know from experience many times a last minute cruise purchase can be considerably cheaper but again, there is no relevance here.

The first time you met your husband, did he wait until inside of 8 days to make arrangements?

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ECOCKS on August 19, 2010, 10:45:41 PM
Right, but he didn't do any of that, he doesn't mention making any preparations whatsoever.

I'm just too stupid to get it then V. I read these as she made the reservation for him then brought up paying in advance. He did not want her to prepay, he would do so when he arrived. That sounds like it's all square and pretty straight forward. Olga apparently read it the same way.

You keep saying he made no preparations but what do you think he means when he says, "I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived."

His 1st, 2nd and 6th Posts with some salient points bolded.

1st Post

i planned on flying to Kiev August 18.  I developed a sinus/allergy infection and could not make the trip.  I planned on visiting a lady I have been chatting with on Skype for the past 6 months.  I informed the lady August 10 I could not make the trip.  She tells me she had paid $579 for a hotel/apartment for the dates of August 18-24.  She says it is impossible for her to get a refund.  She has asked me to send her $579 by western union.  What do you people think.  Scam?

2nd Post

I never asked her to pay.  I told her I would pay when I arrived.  I know I will never know the truth....I am happy to reimburse her if I feel she is being honest.  But, I don't want to send someone I've never met $579 simply because they ask me to.

6th Post

here is an update.  I have spent the last hour talking with this lady.  She continues to ask me to send her money through Western Union.  I have told her many times I will not go through Western Union.  I have asked her for the phone number to the "private" apartment ( evidently it is not a hotel ) and she refuses to give me the number.  She says they would not understand me.  I told her I have a friend who speaks Russian and this will not be a problem.  She says it is too late in the day.  I told her I will contact them tomorrow at 09:00 Kiev time.  She says this is not acceptable.

Yes, we have communicated via Skype for 6 months.  She seems honest, but there are red flags.  She says she has a job...I have seen pictures of her at company website.  But, I talk with her for 2 hours 4 or 5 days a week at different times.  I have always been curious as to when she could sleep, work or take care of her 2 children and talk with me at such different times of the day and night.  Also, in 6 months, I have only seen her in live video 1 time.  I have used my PC video consistently.  She says she does not have a PC camera and can not afford one. Ok, I believe this.  The one time I saw her in video she said was from a cafe.

She lives in Dnepropetrovsk.  We were to meet in Kiev.  She has told me she is considering moving back to Kiev as her father lives in a community about 2 hours from Kiev.  
 
So he was planning on arriving in the late afternoon, meeting the lady for the first time, and having the hassle of running around looking for a hotel?

No, he knew there was a reservation and planned on going there and paying for it himself.

Her refusal to provide a phone number for a call to deal with it is the most damning part of this other than not following his intention of paying for this when he arrives.

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 10:47:08 PM
Faux Pas,

As I already told it is a little bit complicated sometimes to plan in advance a trip with our business. It is not about "a significant savings" that in comparison with the money we get for our service is not so significant.

Quote
The first time you met your husband, did he wait until inside of 8 days to make arrangements?


I don't remember and can not find the papers or tickets. But I remember he paid for apartment in full when we arrived.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 19, 2010, 10:56:51 PM
Faux Pas,

honestly I would care less about how long it would take for Robert to make preparations. If he had to cancel his trip due to his health problem or his job and offered to discuss another time for our meeting I would not be upset or go crazy, I would support the discussion.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Jumper on August 19, 2010, 10:57:12 PM


Read what I posted.  WU uses a Ukrainian agent that is currently under investigation.

 :offtopic:
Boethius ,
no big deal,,but for what its worth , i have very recently sent WU to nikolaev..
and not thru an *agent* , at least as far as i understand?

 as i have been to the very WU office there , just weeks ago myself..

granted maybe WU was *bought out* there by another institution..
 and still just had the WU sign up..but if bought out ,certainly still functions as a WU , and uses their WU logo'ed standard wire transfer docs.

i  guess the point being , sending or receiving, I just don't see how any layman would know it wasn't a WU.. ;)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: 10bdub on August 19, 2010, 11:25:12 PM
I have decided to pay the lady $500.  This will give me a clear conscience.  I want to continue talking with this lady.  If she choses not to continue talking with me life will go on.  I will not come here and say I have been scammed. Some here might be curious to know what plays out in the near future.  Will they continue to chat or will they go their separate ways.  I will be happy to post an update next week.  My gut feeling tells me when the money arrives she will chose to end communication.  If this is the way it plays out I will find the irony to be I will never know if it was a scam or if she decided the chain of events proved to be too much and it would just be easier to make a fresh start with someone else. 
I am sure the lady has had as many thoughts racing through her head as I have.  Maybe I have failed to show compassion for this lady here, but I have been as compassionate and sincere with her as possible.  We talked today and it was pleasant.  If the lady moves on to another man, I hope we can remain friends.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Jumper on August 19, 2010, 11:27:03 PM
As far as on topic:

weird story.

It doesnt pan out from either side really.

um .. there are still various flights to dnepro, at least a dozen ways to fly or get there..
 weird excuse to meet in kiev.. not that it matters.. also a history of sinus infections and no plan *B* mentioned between them over the 6 months of 2 hours almost daily talks? ,i don't buy that.
from her side, its not likely at al lshe paid the full rental from dnepro for a flat in kiev.. but could be attempting to recoup of other expenses or time off lost.


the most compelling issue is this,
she refused to reschedule, and refused to give him the number to contact the flat owner in kiev directly.


sorry to be hard on the OP, from simply not providing complete info....
as it sounds like  a late "opportunity" scam to me.
 mostly because of the two clear refusals, while he states he was willing to work something out

(this actually seems odd to me as well? if she was scamming though!! because a receipt
to satisfy  him would cost her very little , return on investment would be pretty dang good, heck i can probably arrange one in a few days for 100$ from here.. lol)


 on his end a lot of odd or poor planning, especially considering he feels his last trip to dnepro to meet a women from russianlovematch was a scam..

once bitten twice shy?


edited:
sorry 10bdub, we posted at the same moment, and your latest post changes some thoughts..

personally if you had a long pleasant talk with her, i'd think you could confirm with the landlord.. enough to feel confident in your decision. 
good luck

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 20, 2010, 12:18:39 AM
10bdub,

I really wish you good luck and I hope she is sincere. But if even she will continue communication you will not know the whole truth. Maybe she will buy a webcamera at least...

God knows and  sees everything as we say.

I also hope that after 6 month of skyping you know not only her real name but also her real address in Dnepropetrovsk, and she was sharing with you many photos of her with children...

But I have the same feeling as AJ does

Quote
as it sounds like  a late "opportunity" scam to me.
 mostly because of the two clear refusals, while he states he was willing to work something out

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: CanadaMan on August 20, 2010, 11:41:19 AM
One would think that now that the OP has stated he will pay the lady $500, this whole matter has been resolved and the thread has come to its logical conclusion. But I wouldn't bet on it.  :)

Just to address some of your questions/comments Faux Pas:


He stated he didn't buy a plane ticket and he didn't make accommodations.

Can you quote where he stated this?
I sure don't recall seeing him stating this anywhere.

Quote
CM, you seem to have an interest in this thread dying a quicker death. Any particular reason? 10dub seems to be seeking some vilification for not sending this woman the money she said she is out due to his cancellation.

Perhaps you meant to say he is seeking some 'justification' for not...?

As for my seeming interest in seeing this thread die sooner rather than later.
I, just as much as the next guy/gal here at this site, love to read long juicy trip reports/threads about sordid affairs or matches gone awry or dates that finally work out in the end.

I also have an analytical mind so I love puzzles. But I only like to play with a full deck of cards.

When someone like a StupidGuy comes to the site and makes two simple posts; the first, an 11 word introduction and the second a taunting trip report and the regulars here stretch out, analyze, discombobulate, advise, refute, mock etc. the person for 6 pages over a two month period, I think that's a bit over the top.

Likewise, with 10bdub's post, we simply don't have enough information to draw any definitive conclusions or give meaningful advice.
It's these types of threads that I prefer to see die quicker deaths than others.

That's just my personal preference though. And I do stop reading threads once they've reached my threshold of interest.  :)
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 21, 2010, 05:24:53 AM
Can you quote where he stated this?
I sure don't recall seeing him stating this anywhere.

No, I won't go back and read this thing again. It's not important enough for me and certainly isn't for the OP. It's there IIRC

Quote
Perhaps you meant to say he is seeking some 'justification' for not...?
Depends on how you look at it I suppose
Quote
As for my seeming interest in seeing this thread die sooner rather than later.
I, just as much as the next guy/gal here at this site, love to read long juicy trip reports/threads about sordid affairs or matches gone awry or dates that finally work out in the end.

I also have an analytical mind so I love puzzles. But I only like to play with a full deck of cards.

When someone like a StupidGuy comes to the site and makes two simple posts; the first, an 11 word introduction and the second a taunting trip report and the regulars here stretch out, analyze, discombobulate, advise, refute, mock etc. the person for 6 pages over a two month period, I think that's a bit over the top.

Likewise, with 10bdub's post, we simply don't have enough information to draw any definitive conclusions or give meaningful advice.
It's these types of threads that I prefer to see die quicker deaths than others.

That's just my personal preference though. And I do stop reading threads once they've reached my threshold of interest.  :)


This lost my interest sometime ago. I'll read them even though I'm not interested on the chance it gets interesting or someone axes me a quirkston.  ;D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: OlgaH on August 21, 2010, 10:05:49 AM
He stated he didn't buy a plane ticket and he didn't make accommodations.

Can you quote where he stated this?
I sure don't recall seeing him stating this anywhere.

No, I won't go back and read this thing again.

I went back and could not find in the OP posts "I didn't buy a plane ticket and I didn't make accommodations."  Such supposition was only from the second guessers. 

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Faux Pas on August 21, 2010, 02:10:45 PM
I went back and could not find in the OP posts "I didn't buy a plane ticket and I didn't make accommodations."  Such supposition was only from the second guessers. 



Red it again and look closer  :D
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Sculpto on August 21, 2010, 02:43:23 PM
Red it again and look closer  :D

No place in this thread did the OP say he did not have a ticket.. or that he did have a ticket.  He simply ignored your questions.
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Gylden on August 21, 2010, 02:44:17 PM
I went back and could not find in the OP posts "I didn't buy a plane ticket and I didn't make accommodations."  Such supposition was only from the second guessers. 



I didn't read where he stated this as well??
Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: ECOCKS on August 21, 2010, 05:25:59 PM
I didn't read where he stated this as well??

That's because it's an assumption by two or three people who conjured it up out of nowhere. At no point does he say this.

Title: Re: hotel refunds
Post by: Rubicon on August 30, 2010, 08:04:39 PM
my prediction is that after she receives the money he will never hear from her again.  she may not have been planning to "scam" him from the get go, but she decided to see if she could take advantage of him after he stood her up.  just her way to get "revenge".  I would not send her any money, since he advised her that HE would be paying for the hotel or apartment when he arrived.  imo she just came up with this story to see if she could fleece him.