How are women thought of in FSU who go for quick 'hook ups'?

[papakota]

If a person comes to America, it doesn't make them any less insincere. It may even make them smart. Nothing wrong with wanting a better life and future for yourself and your family. Nothing wrong with leaving everything behind for a better future.

I'm not going to criticize conditions in Russia but people vote with their feet. When Syrians or other refugees need new homes, they don't head to Russia for a brighter future.

What a guy should worry about is the motives of their lady. Does she want a free or temporary ride or will she be a productive partner in the marriage.

Speaking of feet. Russia has a highest number of foreign nationals living on its territory than any other country in Europe. Up to 10M. In Moscow it's pretty good, actually.
What I mean is that if a Russian woman wants to get married, that won't make her want to leave Russia for good. Most women I talked to here told me that they might be interested to get to know me, but they won't go anywhere. And most of those who are willing to leave Russia, want to emigrate REGARDLESS of marriage. Marriage just gives them a legal way to achieve their goal. Again, that doesn't mean they can't sincerely love you. But their priorities order is a Green Card, then love, not the other way around. There are a whole bunch of men to love, but just one Green Card. What's the point to love if you get kicked out of a country in the end? My love for my wife in the US didn't get me far. At the end of the day, I have neither a wife, nor a Green Card.

[alex330]

We're talking about different things here. Apples and oranges, so to speak. Those women who want to emigrate don't need a visa. They need a foreign passport. I can travel visa free to a whole bunch of countries, ranging from UK to NZ. But that absolutely doesn't help me to get settled anywhere.

You mentioned attractive ladies who want to date foreigners are mostly interested in the color of a man's passport. I disagree. I believe very few women are interested in passports these days. It has become easier for them to travel, especially if they are good looking.

If dating progresses to thoughts of marriage, then yes, the man's country will come into play I believe, as will his culture, family, education, job, income, personality, etc. I believe the color of his passport is not high up on that list. Unless the man lives in Liberia. Then it is a negative.

Most of the women we know who wanted to emigrate did not marry a foreigner with a passport. They did what it sounds like you did. They entered on a VISA, overstayed and tried to find someone to marry once in country.

It reminds me of family members telling me my wife was using me for a passport. What benefit does that provide her that she could not achieve as a good looking woman with most other countries?

[JayH]

It reminds me of family members telling me my wife was using me for a passport. What benefit does that provide her that she could not achieve as a good looking woman with most other countries?

A lot of communities are  a pretty tight environment and gossip a major source of entertainment( in fsu)
Very often those not directly involved  ie in the no idea category   -- will talk about a girl using guys for one purpose or another -- and relationship not being "genuine "( whatever that could mean in this situation).
Likewise in the west-- family and friends will question a girls motives -- out of all the "info" that the media provides to give them "knowledge" !
As an example--look at the tone of forum comments of scepticism --and you would think this place should be better informed.

[JayH]

I'm not Popakota, I'm papakota. I'm my cat's daddy, not its ass (papa is daddy and popa is ass in Russian).

You are confused.

I beg to differ. 

No you are Popakota  !

Your cats daddy? I thought you said you were married to a woman?
 

[BillyB]

Speaking of feet. Russia has a highest number of foreign nationals living on its territory than any other country in Europe. Up to 10M. In Moscow it's pretty good, actually.

There's a problem with that statement. It's not true. Also for the foreign nationals living in Russia, some are actual Russians who became citizens of other nations but are counted as foreign nationals when returning to Russia and many foreign nationals are from other FSU nations that don't need a visa to enter into Russia compared to restrictions that prevent those same people from living in other parts of Europe. If visas weren't required to enter  European countries and America or tourist visas were automatic, Russia's population would decrease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population

[HoundDaddyLee]

No you are Popakota  !

Your cats daddy? I thought you said you were married to a woman?

Unless I am wrong, ass is popka in Russian. So if I called him Popkakota then he would be the the cat's ass. He is simply a troll. Seems to have been kicked out of the US twice based on one of the above posts. No wonder he hates Americans and thing Russian is so wonderful. I think until the Russians gave him citizenship he may have been "A man without a country". But who knows.


And Papakota, I apologize for not having the superior Russian language skills of a 5 time married Lothario. 


HDL

[Boethius]

Speaking of feet. Russia has a highest number of foreign nationals living on its territory than any other country in Europe. Up to 10M. In Moscow it's pretty good, actually.

Most of those foreign nationals are from other former Soviet republics.

[2tallbill]

I will repeat what I have said before.

We western men are able to 'trade up' in the women we can attract in FSU compared to what we can do at home.

This is due to the economics, which is the same thing as saying 'your passport.'

However, even as the attraction and ability is based on economics, this does not preclude true love from developing over time.

I am 100% sure that's true, however each year an FSUW ages after say
35, she becomes less likely to get married and the quality of local husband
that she can attract becomes less appealing.

A 36 year old FSUW can certainly get a local man to f#ck her and lay on her
couch getting waited on hand and foot but finding a man to marry her and
take care of her kids? Not so much.

Women have been swooping towards the best provider since caveman times.

[2tallbill]

Most of those foreign nationals are from other former Soviet republics.

True, most are. On a side note,  I have posted a few news articles about
Chinese migration to Russia here
http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=19236.new#new

[papakota]

You mentioned attractive ladies who want to date foreigners are mostly interested in the color of a man's passport. I disagree. I believe very few women are interested in passports these days. It has become easier for them to travel, especially if they are good looking.

If dating progresses to thoughts of marriage, then yes, the man's country will come into play I believe, as will his culture, family, education, job, income, personality, etc. I believe the color of his passport is not high up on that list. Unless the man lives in Liberia. Then it is a negative.

Most of the women we know who wanted to emigrate did not marry a foreigner with a passport. They did what it sounds like you did. They entered on a VISA, overstayed and tried to find someone to marry once in country.

It reminds me of family members telling me my wife was using me for a passport. What benefit does that provide her that she could not achieve as a good looking woman with most other countries?

Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say they were mostly interested in a passport. You did. I said it's one of the top things for them to consider. I'm not a citizen of Liberia. I'm a citizen of a country which has an average salary at least tenfold more than Ukraine has currently. Nevertheless, Ukrainian women back in 2005 openly told me in Ukraine that my country was not a place they were really interested to immigrate to. They wanted places like Germany, USA, UK etc. Unlike you, I don't just express my personal opinion, but a fact of life.

I'm not gonna speculate about the percentage of women who overstay vs. those who marry inland, so to speak. It doesn't really matter how technically they get into contact with their potential Green Card men. Unlike me who can enter, say, Canada visa free, I think it's close to impossible for a poor woman from Ukraine to obtain Canadian visa and have enough cash for the trip. So don't compare incomparable.

I didn't understand your last sentence.

[papakota]

No you are Popakota  !

Your cats daddy? I thought you said you were married to a woman?

Then you're maybe popaukraine, since you're so obsessed about that place in the world.

My marriage has nothing to do with my cat. My cat is more like my adopted child. Of course, my cat is not my biological child.

[papakota]

There's a problem with that statement. It's not true. Also for the foreign nationals living in Russia, some are actual Russians who became citizens of other nations but are counted as foreign nationals when returning to Russia and many foreign nationals are from other FSU nations that don't need a visa to enter into Russia compared to restrictions that prevent those same people from living in other parts of Europe. If visas weren't required to enter  European countries and America or tourist visas were automatic, Russia's population would decrease.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_and_dependent_territories_by_immigrant_population

If, if, if. If I didn't get divorced in America, I would've been a US citizen by now. Are we discussing hypothetical situations or a real life? Russian citizens who naturalized elsewhere even theoretically can't be counted in Russia as foreign nationals, since according to Russian Constitution Russia only sees in them Russian citizens. I can't even show my foreign passport in Russia, since I'm Russian now. Also I highly doubt that many Russians with foreign passports go back to Russia to live here permanently. They just come to visit, if at all. I also don't need a visa to enter Russia and I'm not a citizen of a FSU country. So what? Regardless, those guys are foreigners in Russia who have absolutely no right to become permanent residents or citizens here. They mostly work here. Legally or otherwise. Millions of them.
Also there are a few millions of Ukrainians living in Russia. That's the main reason why Ukraine still maintains diplomatic ties with Russian Federation. There is close to a million of Donbass refugees in Russia. And many others.

[papakota]

Unless I am wrong, ass is popka in Russian. So if I called him Popkakota then he would be the the cat's ass. He is simply a troll. Seems to have been kicked out of the US twice based on one of the above posts. No wonder he hates Americans and thing Russian is so wonderful. I think until the Russians gave him citizenship he may have been "A man without a country". But who knows.


And Papakota, I apologize for not having the superior Russian language skills of a 5 time married Lothario. 


HDL

You are a Dog. In a good way, of course. At least in terms of your intellectual abilities. Popka or popa, doesn't matter. Same thing, more or less. I wasn't deported from the US. Not like it matters, but since you mentioned it. And I'm a citizen of one of a richest countries in the world and most developed ones too. Not too hard to guess which one, based on my replies. If I hated Americans, I wouldn't be giving you guys a minute of my time to begin with. Actually, I somewhat enjoyed my time in the US. Let alone I have a teenage daughter living there.

You have no skills whatsoever, but to badmouth strangers you don't even know.

I just feel more at home in Russia, since I speak Russian and grew up in USSR.

[papakota]

Most of those foreign nationals are from other former Soviet republics.

Doesn't matter. They are as foreign as you are. And unlike me, half of these guys weren't even born in Soviet Union and Russian is not their first language.

[Boethius]

Yes, it does matter.  It's not like in EU countries, where most foreign nationals are educated and bring significant skills to the table for the host country.

[Boethius]

I'm a citizen of a country which has an average salary at least tenfold more than Ukraine has currently

That is inaccurate.

Average Russian salary -

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/russia/wages

October 2016 - US$563.

Average Ukrainian salary -

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/ukraine/wages

July 2016 $206.

[alex330]

Don't put words into my mouth. I didn't say they were mostly interested in a passport.

Trust me, attractive ladies in FSU care more about passports than about anything else when they date foreigners.

Maybe I am missing something but it sounds like you place a passport high up on the list, to which I once again disagree.

I'm not a citizen of Liberia.

I never said you were. It was just an example of a country where I believe a passport works against a man.

Nevertheless, Ukrainian women back in 2005 openly told me in Ukraine that my country was not a place they were really interested to immigrate to. They wanted places like Germany, USA, UK etc. Unlike you, I don't just express my personal opinion, but a fact of life.

Maybe some women said that, I do not doubt you. And we know women like that here as well. But that was over ten years ago. It is not a fact and times have changed. My belief backed up by speaking to numerous (my wife even worked at a marriage agency) Ukrainian women is that a passport is just not as important as you make it out to be.

I didn't understand your last sentence.

This is something my wife and I laugh about all the time. Let's use her as an example and pretend she is an attractive lady from Ukraine.

Why would she want a US or British passport? What benefit (other than slightly easier travel) does that provide her versus a Ukrainian passport?

Attractive women have options and when selecting men and citizenship is not numero uno on the list. Waving a blue passport over your head no longer works.

[msmob]

Attractive women have options and when selecting men and citizenship is not numero uno on the list.

I have to disagree..They are taking a risk moving far from home and often bear in mind whether the nation is one where it is perceived that they have rights if things go wrong.

[Bounder]

But he's not wrong that there are just as many who are looking for a foreign passport.  You can only really know this if you are from the FSU and have spent any time in FSU communities.  They don't say this to Westerners.  They do speak freely among "their own".

I don't know if it is 50/50 or what the exact breakdown would be, but I won't dispute that some might put a desirable, foreign passport at the top of their list of priorities. I also recognize that in this game, motivations are complex and it would be naive to think that even the most sincere girl would not have future country of residence and citizenship among her considerations. That's just a fact of reality.

I just had a good discussion about this with a girl I've been communicating with for the past two months. She's been transparent with me since literally day one that she wants to relocate. She also told me that she had the opportunity to do so, but didn't because she didn't have the right feelings for the guy concerned.

[Bounder]

I never said anything about forcing. What I mean is this. Say, you've been talking to someone for couple months long distance, over Skype etc. You spent long hours talking to get to know her. A few women I met, had been naked on Skype before I met them face to face (I asked them to get undressed). It's not the same as if you just meet someone local right there and say Hi! What is your name?

Yes, true, but when you finally meet her in person, if she's not into you, there's not much to be done about it. Of course, it's going to be disappointing for the guy who has come all that way with great expectations, but it's like flogging a dead horse at that point. If, upon meeting you in the flesh, she's not interested, then she's not interested. Sad, but true.

[JayH]

She also told me that she had the opportunity to do so, but didn't because she didn't have the right feelings for the guy concerned.

That is exactly the point that Alex is making.

I have said it many times-- for the RIGHT guy - anything is possible.For just any guy -it needs more.

The days of a different passport and marginal economic circumstances being enough are long over.
Not to say there will not be exceptions-- but the odds are against.

[Bounder]

I'm not going to criticize conditions in Russia but people vote with their feet. When Syrians or other refugees need new homes, they don't head to Russia for a brighter future.

You're right, they don't head to Russia. They head to Lebanon. And Jordan. And Iraq, Turkey, and Egypt. They are war refugees trying to escape war and they are going where they can be out of harms way. The vast majority of them wil never set foot in North America or Europe. Russia also provides safety from war and if it were in the same neighbourhood as Syria, Syrians would flee there as well. Really, you are criticizing Russia, and this aspect of your argument makes no sense.

[Bounder]

That is exactly the point that Alex is making.

I have said it many times-- for the RIGHT guy - anything is possible.For just any guy -it needs more.

The days of a different passport and marginal economic circumstances being enough are long over.
Not to say there will not be exceptions-- but the odds are against.

Yes. I think Alex and I are in agreement here. I was catching up on the thread.

[Trenchcoat]

Yes, true, but when you finally meet her in person, if she's not into you, there's not much to be done about it. Of course, it's going to be disappointing for the guy who has come all that way with great expectations, but it's like flogging a dead horse at that point. If, upon meeting you in the flesh, she's not interested, then she's not interested. Sad, but true.

Too true Bounder, when I met the first girl in Kiev in Ukraine earlier this year it was like this. She was attractive, we got on well - we got on well on skype beforehand, we enjoyed our time there (well as far as I know) but unfortunately the attraction was not quite there, almost perhaps, I think we had a liking for each other, but not there as needed. She could have gone the whole way with me if she chose, it wasn't like there was a complete disconnect between us, so we could have had a good relationship even though the chemistry wasn't quite there and some people do both in marrying a foreigner or a native. For her and many though someone who there is not chemistry with is just a no-go and not interested. I think she was genuine in this respect but I also think she enjoys holidaying around at the guys expense and will do anything to get as much of a break away from the Mariupol war zone as possible. She wasn't really a heavy expense girl, no real shopping trips, but its not really what guys are there for even though I understand her motivation from a place like that (might have even had a husband for all I know). So yeah, you're correct when you say if she's not interested she's not interested.

Main thing though, in this country (UK) an attractive girl in the 7-10 range can have several guys she feels chemistry for queued up. To come top of the three or four guys queued up is not easy, you nearly always need good social skills, then ability to show wealth etc come into play perhaps a bit of luck & timing, who knows. I think I've had several girls here in the 9-10 range where I have been in the running, chemistry with girl but she goes for another guy (my social skills aren't great and that can be a big beef for many a woman here). However, if I go to FSU countries then there is no longer the three-four or so other guys I have to compete with where she also has chemistry with. Odds may be I'm the only one, she may have been shagging other guys recently to that point or she may not. So from what I've learnt so far and my theorising suggest that as soon as I meet a FSW with chemistry then all could be good.

[BillyB]

Russian citizens who naturalized elsewhere even theoretically can't be counted in Russia as foreign nationals, since according to Russian Constitution Russia only sees in them Russian citizens.

You got proof or making stuff up? I just showed you a UN report that gathers it's data from countries willing to give it up. Russia includes people who expatriated to foreign countries and subsequently returned.

You're right, they don't head to Russia. They head to Lebanon. And Jordan. And Iraq, Turkey, and Egypt. They are war refugees trying to escape war and they are going where they can be out of harms way. The vast majority of them wil never set foot in North America or Europe. Russia also provides safety from war and if it were in the same neighbourhood as Syria, Syrians would flee there as well. Really, you are criticizing Russia, and this aspect of your argument makes no sense.

America and Europe give money to nations you mentioned to keep the refugees from travelling no further. Turkey is even using the situation as leverage to get EU membership.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/11/turkey-threatens-eu-refugee-surge-161125123835003.html