Should I Order for Her?

[Trenchcoat]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

[JayH]

Probably best if you take a pie & sauce from Tesco for her.
She would need to get used to your idea of a good feed !

[BillyB]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

Order her some veggie appetizer with water...if it's free and get yourself a steak and lobster meal! Of course your reasoning is that you care about her health and want to keep her slim.

Actually ordering for a woman has nothing to do with being a MAN. Let her choose what she wants to eat and drink and if you don't like it because she eats like a pig or orders all the most expensive items on the menu, you don't have to ask her out again.

[alex330]

My wife appreciates it when I order for her. Was a bit unusual for me initially as in the past I would let the woman decide and order for herself. But RW enjoy little things like that at times.

If you are meeting for the first time it might be a little awkward... maybe she is allergic to the peanut encrusted sea bass. Or has not dined out very often and does not want borsch as it is considered everyday food.

If you let her decide what to order you can also weed out the old diggers very easily. Or any undesireable vegans. You dont want to end up marrying a vegan. That would be horrendous.

[fathertime]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

Personally, I would let her decide what she wants to eat, and that has nothing to do with being a man or not being a man..imo. 
Fathertime!

[HoundDaddyLee]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

Based on this your Russian skills must be very good. 


I joke, but you will be lucky if you have an English menu so you can have hope that you order for yourself. In other words, she will probably find out what you want and order for both of you. At home when dating or when I was married, I would find out what my gf/wife wanted and order for both of us. I have never chosen the meal for the woman.


HDL

[SANDRO43]

Personally, I would let her decide what she wants to eat, and that has nothing to do with being a man or not being a man..imo.  Fathertime!

It has to do with good manners . However, you can offer suggestions, and say what you're having.

[Trenchcoat]

My wife appreciates it when I order for her. Was a bit unusual for me initially as in the past I would let the woman decide and order for herself. But RW enjoy little things like that at times.

If you are meeting for the first time it might be a little awkward... maybe she is allergic to the peanut encrusted sea bass. Or has not dined out very often and does not want borsch as it is considered everyday food.

If you let her decide what to order you can also weed out the old diggers very easily. Or any undesireable vegans. You dont want to end up marrying a vegan. That would be horrendous.

Thanks for the good advice Alex, never ceases to amaze me how even little things we do can help us in our search for a decent FSW and give us all important telling signs, top level FSW dating skills indeed

[Boethius]

I disagree on the golddigger comment.  If you are looking for golddigging, you are going to find it even if it doesn't exist.  Ordering the most expensive item on a menu is not necessarily an indication of golddigging.  An FSUM would not bat an eye at this.

[alex330]

Ordering the most expensive item on a menu is not necessarily an indication of golddigging.  An FSUM would not bat an eye at this.

You are correct. They would not need to as a woman would never even try a stunt like this with them.

[Boethius]

I disagree.  I've had this discussion with different generations of FSUM, from ages (now) 20 to over 80, just to gauge if the better half's view is representative of the current generation, the older generation, and those in between.

I would describe an FSUM's attitude as, if he is taking a woman out, he has invited her and she is free to order what she wishes.  If he can't afford it, he wouldn't have asked her out.  If she orders the most expensive items on a menu, the implication usually is she is going to sleep with him.  It's a certain layer of their society, but that is well known, and that hasn't changed in two generations.

ETA - I asked the better half about this. His response was that Westerners are always looking for the worst in FSU individuals. His view is, if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu it's probably because for her, it's what appealed to her.  He also said this view of golddiggers is, generally, unheard of in FSU societies.  It's part of Western mentality, not their mentality. 

Personally, I'd be looking at character traits generally.  Does she have a current FSU man in her life?  If so, why is she dating a foreigner?  That is actually more common than golddiggers (i.e., a UW ditching a UM she allegedly loves for the opportunity to marry a WM).  To each his own, but to me, this would signify that what she did to her current partner, she could eventually do to me.  How does she treat her friends?  Her parents/siblings?  Does she work?  If so, is she dependable at that job?  Is her apartment clean?  If it's important to you, does she know how to cook?  Has she offered to cook a meal for you?  Are her emotions stable or volatile (again, a personal preference).  There are hundreds of little things you can observe to determine if this is the person for you.

[alex330]

I disagree.  I've had this discussion with different generations of FSUM, from ages (now) 20 to over 80, just to gauge if the better half's view is representative of the current generation, the older generation, and those in between.

I would describe an FSUM's attitude as, if he is taking a woman out, he has invited her and she is free to order what she wishes.  If he can't afford it, he wouldn't have asked her out.  If she orders the most expensive items on a menu, the implication usually is she is going to sleep with him.  It's a certain layer of their society, but that is well known, and that hasn't changed in two generations.

ETA - I asked the better half about this. His response was that Westerners are always looking for the worst in FSU individuals. His view is, if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu it's probably because for her, it's what appealed to her.  He also said this view of golddiggers is, generally, unheard of in FSU societies.  It's part of Western mentality, not their mentality.

My wife agrees that Russian men will always pay. But she also says a normal woman will not order the most expensive item on the menu. We are not talking a $32 entree versus a $25 dish here. We are talking the chefs five pound stuffed lobster special.

If the date is with an American, the women will usually order more expensive because "all Americans are rich."

Gold diggers are not unheard of in FSU culture. Most of the men in this forum have been on dates with them in the FSU.  The people in Eastern Europe are not sheltered from general popular culture. Times have changed. She says the sex thing is outdated as well.

[alex330]

[Boethius]

I don't disagree with the "normal woman" part.  But it doesn't mean she's a golddigger.  Note my comments on and post date experience.

I asked a 21 year old nephew and a 24 year old cousin specifically about the sex thing (from the male perspective), and both confirmed it's still the same.  I asked a few months ago, when this came up on the forum previously.

I think often, WM see what they want to see.  Golddiggers are rare in every society, including FSU societies.  That said, those that aren't dating wealthy men in their own countries would gravitate to WM.  However, they're not going to waste time on an expensive meal.

[alex330]

Personally, I'd be looking at character traits generally.  Does she have a current FSU man in her life?  If so, why is she dating a foreigner?  That is actually more common than golddiggers (i.e., a UW ditching a UM she allegedly loves for the opportunity to marry a WM).  To each his own, but to me, this would signify that what she did to her current partner, she could eventually do to me.  How does she treat her friends?  Her parents/siblings?  Does she work?  If so, is she dependable at that job?  Is her apartment clean?  If it's important to you, does she know how to cook?  Has she offered to cook a meal for you?  Are her emotions stable or volatile (again, a personal preference).  There are hundreds of little things you can observe to determine if this is the person for you.

Yes, many of these would be more important indicators for myself. They have done studies that show how someone treats the waiter at a restaurant is a very good indicator as well. Not sure how that translates in FSU culture as my understanding is restaurant help is looked down in usually...

[Gator]

Trenchcoat,

If this is a first meeting, avoid the expensive restaurant.  Save the more expensive restaurants for when you have a relationship.

At a moderate, yet recommended restaurant, suggest to her to order anything she wants. In fact, tell her the most expensive dish, Shrimp dipped in Dniper Sludge,  looks "delicious" and suggest she order it.   

I usually ran into the opposite problem.  Most women who want to impress a man are coached to smile, say "Thank You" at any opportunity, and act as if they frugal, so they ordered something not expensive and said "Thank You."   Some said all they wanted was salad. 

When in Thailand with my future bride, she had no experience with Thai food and her English was limited.  So I always ordered two different dishes,  and then let her taste both and choose.   

[BillyB]

At a moderate, yet recommended restaurant, suggest to her to order anything she wants. In fact, tell her the most expensive dish, Shrimp dipped in Dniper Sludge,  looks "delicious" and suggest she order it.   

This is good advice but should go light on the sludge. Just as we men are trying to feel a woman out on a date, the women are trying to feel us out. Going to a moderate restaurant doesn't make a guy look cheap or and it allows a guy to try to win a woman over with himself, not what he can buy her. Recommending the most tasty and expensive dish will tell a woman he cares she will have a good meal without worrying about the price. A first date should have good memories if the couple has a future together.

I usually ran into the opposite problem.  Most women who want to impress a man are coached to smile, say "Thank You" at any opportunity, and act as if they frugal, so they ordered something not expensive and said "Thank You."   Some said all they wanted was salad. 
 

I went on a date with a woman 8 times and she never ate. Just had one drink never over $5. At first I felt guilty eating in front of her and asked if she wanted another drink or something to eat. After a couple of dates, I figured that she's just taking care of her figure by limiting her intake of food.

When in Thailand with my future bride, she had no experience with Thai food and her English was limited.  So I always ordered two different dishes,  and then let her taste both and choose.
 

When on a first date, most of the time I offer to share my food before I take a bite. Many times the ladies accept since they're curious what my food tastes like. Most of the time they'll share their food and a few times even feed me with their fork which makes for a more romantic time. This technique has backfired on me before. A few times my wife stole my whole plate of food after taking a bite and gave me hers in return which is usually lighter on the calories than I prefer. Besides enjoying my food, I think she's checking on if I have any anger management issues.

[Bounder]

If you let her decide what to order you can also weed out the old diggers very easily. Or any undesireable vegans. You dont want to end up marrying a vegan. That would be horrendous.

Oh, how, Alex, you couldn't possibly be more right!!! LMAO

[Bounder]

I disagree on the golddigger comment.  If you are looking for golddigging, you are going to find it even if it doesn't exist.  Ordering the most expensive item on a menu is not necessarily an indication of golddigging.  An FSUM would not bat an eye at this.

But an FSUW either knows that a WM might commonly bat an eye at this or she doesn't.  If she does, and she orders the most expensive dish, she is most likely looking for a rich husband.  I don't think it's going to get better from there.  If she doesn't know that WM could bat an eye at this, she is new to dating WM (for whatever reason, could be quite a few different possibilities there).

However, Trenchcoat, this is very good advice: "If you are looking for golddigging, you are going to find it even if it doesn't exist."  I guarantee this will be the outcome.  The self-fulfilling prophecy deserves much more credit than it gets.  If you suspect a gold digger, she will be one.  Just use your wits and common sense; if nothing is saying gold digging, dismiss the thought outright!  The rest is love..

[Bounder]

I disagree.  I've had this discussion with different generations of FSUM, from ages (now) 20 to over 80, just to gauge if the better half's view is representative of the current generation, the older generation, and those in between.

I would describe an FSUM's attitude as, if he is taking a woman out, he has invited her and she is free to order what she wishes.  If he can't afford it, he wouldn't have asked her out.  If she orders the most expensive items on a menu, the implication usually is she is going to sleep with him.  It's a certain layer of their society, but that is well known, and that hasn't changed in two generations.

ETA - I asked the better half about this. His response was that Westerners are always looking for the worst in FSU individuals. His view is, if she orders the most expensive thing on the menu it's probably because for her, it's what appealed to her.  He also said this view of golddiggers is, generally, unheard of in FSU societies.  It's part of Western mentality, not their mentality. 

Golddiggers are unheard of in FSU societies?  Ukraine could be a verb for gold-digging.  While they may be "unheard of", I am sure they are well recognized.

Personally, I'd be looking at character traits generally.  Does she have a current FSU man in her life?  If so, why is she dating a foreigner?  That is actually more common than golddiggers (i.e., a UW ditching a UM she allegedly loves for the opportunity to marry a WM).  To each his own, but to me, this would signify that what she did to her current partner, she could eventually do to me.  How does she treat her friends?  Her parents/siblings?  Does she work?  If so, is she dependable at that job?  Is her apartment clean?  If it's important to you, does she know how to cook?  Has she offered to cook a meal for you?  Are her emotions stable or volatile (again, a personal preference).  There are hundreds of little things you can observe to determine if this is the person for you.

Boethius, this should be a sticky note.  This is very good advice.  It is something of the quality of 2TallBill's posts and many of his posts on this subject should be stickies.

[mies]

So when I meet a FSW at a restaurant/bar/cafe should I just decide what she will have without even knowing what she likes in order to be a man or should I let her decide?

There is a difference between being a man, and being a parent to an infant. Since you intend to marry this woman and have sex with her, you shouldn't treat her like a baby. She is an adult person, with her own food preferences, dietary restrictions, allergies, etc.

Healthy way would be to ask whether she likes anything on the menu, and whether she wants any recommendations on meals that you've tried before.

Plus, if you are in a local restaurant in FSU, she might have a much better idea than you of what to order (or not).

[msmob]

Thanks for the good advice Alex, never ceases to amaze me how even little things we do can help us in our search for a decent FSW and give us all important telling signs, top level FSW dating skills indeed

Trenchcoat ... S.C. is just about a vegan - she occasionally drinks raw eggs...


The only thing she cooks is Black Sun flower seeds.


Alex' advice works for his wife ... He clearly knows her taste now and she trusts his .. or they like to experiment

You are asking a question about a date in the FSU. How many times have you been? Do you know your Schis from Solyankas ?

There'll likely be no Chicken Tikka Masalas at an Indian Restaurant, so face it .. Unless you have lived there a long time .. you need to leave the choices to her on her turf

Discussing the menu is a great opportunity to learn more about each other and her wiliness to advise / temperament.

I learnt about FSU culinary styles by allowing the lady to advise and you can still suggest what to order when you understand the options.

 

[Trenchcoat]

There is a difference between being a man, and being a parent to an infant. Since you intend to marry this woman and have sex with her, you shouldn't treat her like a baby. She is an adult person, with her own food preferences, dietary restrictions, allergies, etc.

Healthy way would be to ask whether she likes anything on the menu, and whether she wants any recommendations on meals that you've tried before.

Plus, if you are in a local restaurant in FSU, she might have a much better idea than you of what to order (or not).

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

I still like Alex's idea the best she if she is a gold digger by ordering expensive stuff. Your idea is not bad though, I could suggest the cheaper stuff on the menu for her, see how she takes to it

Just seen your reply msmob, looks like we're both early birds. Yeah for sure she is likely to be the best when it comes to ordering, was on both my two previous occasions in the Ukraine. Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

[Anotherkiwi]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

There's a difference between "being manly" and this nonsense.

Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

Yeah, right - and kills her because he picks the one thing to which she's allergic. 

[Trenchcoat]

Yeah, right - and kills her because he picks the one thing to which she's allergic. 

Yeah, it would be like 'oh sh*t back to the dating site again then'

[msmob]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

Nope . I'm not sure where you glean this 'info' and unless your lady is fluent in English, the menu is in English and you are familiar with the cuisine - you're going to have some 'fun' leading

I still like Alex's idea the best she if she is a gold digger by ordering expensive stuff. Your idea is not bad though, I could suggest the cheaper stuff on the menu for her, see how she takes to it

May be do not go to a place where you can't afford it ?..

Just seen your reply msmob, looks like we're both early birds. Yeah for sure she is likely to be the best when it comes to ordering, was on both my two previous occasions in the Ukraine. Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

SC is in Thailand and she woke me up to remind me what I'm missing

This 'alpha male' stuff - forget it ... As I keep suggesting - be yourself and find a compatible partner !

[Bee Farmer]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

A manly man would choose the restaurant.  That is leading.  I'm hungry for _____.  This restaurant looks nice.  Let's try it.

If you ask her to suggest a restaurant, and she asks you what kind of restaurant you want to eat at, don't be all wishy washy and say you don't care what restaurant.  You'll seem like a wimp.  Be a man and have an opinion.  Tell her you want to try some Black Sea seafood...or a nice steak.

Choosing her food for her will seem controlling.  Let her decide what she wants to eat.  What you can do however, is to ask her what she wants you to order for her.  That gives her choice, but still allows you to be the man.  (However, waitresses don't always speak good English, so you may be better off letting the girl place her own order.)

You can probably get away with ordering a dessert for her without asking her which dessert she wants.  That can come across as trying to give her a special treat.  (But you can always ask her what kind of dessert she would like to try also.)

And when you go to take her out on the date...if you take a taxi or a bus, offer her your arm to help her when she climbs on/off the bus or getting out of a taxi.  Close the taxi door for her.  If you walk down the sidewalk, make sure you walk closest to the road, so if a car hits a mud puddle and splashes, it hits you instead of soaking her.  Offer her your arm when walking down the sidewalk.  Open the door to the restaurant for her.  Help her with her coat.  Pull out her chair for her.  If you get a bottle of wine, pour a cup of wine for her.  These are things a man who leads does.  he isn't trying to control or dominate the lady, but he is leading and taking charge and do things for his girl to show her she is special.

And make sure you ask her at least 5 questions about herself while you are on the date.  (It shows you are interested in getting to know her.  http://itsnotamatch.com/2012/07/26/how-did-your-date-go-use-the-test-of-5-questions/ )  Don't spend all the date talking about yourself.  She may be impressed by your accomplishments, but at the end of the night she will have the feeling that you were not really interested in getting to know who she is.

And don't gawk at all the pretty girls during your date.  Your date may get the idea you have wandering eyes and will be unfaithful.

[pokerintherear]

 If language is not an issue discuss the menu with her as to what both of you would like to order. When the waitress comes give the order for both of you. I think you will find this pleasing to her................Olga would like the fish and blah,blah and I will take the blah,blah,blah

She gets what she wants and you are the gentlemen. Don't make things so complicated.

[mies]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

No. Never. Never in my experience. Although "manly" and controlling men always loved me back at home because i look (deceptively so) the "right type".
However, man is usually choosing the restaurant (back in Ukraine, maybe in Russian it is different, but i don't think so). Because usually (in 99.999% of cases) he is inviting.
FSU men may point to a menu saying "this is really good, you should try it", and usually they will be pointing to the most expensive meal.

You may, (imho) quite often, experience that woman would ask you to order for her, or will tell you she doesn't know what she wants, but that she likes xxxxx. Then you will order for her. Don't order something small and cheap, like a small snack or appetizer. Even if she says she isn't too hungry. Order something good, maybe something interesting and unusual for her.

But you should not be ordering/deciding for her before she explicitly asked you to do so.

I still like Alex's idea the best she if she is a gold digger by ordering expensive stuff. Your idea is not bad though, I could suggest the cheaper stuff on the menu for her, see how she takes to it

Just seen your reply msmob, looks like we're both early birds. Yeah for sure she is likely to be the best when it comes to ordering, was on both my two previous occasions in the Ukraine. Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

You could suggest and should suggest what you think is good/delicious.
You are not the only one choosing. She is choosing too. While you are trying to "test" her, she might be "testing" you too, to see how stingy you are. Since you can choose a restaurant - choose the restaurant that is within your means. Do not take your date to the expensive restaurant because you want to impress her, and then suggest the affordable meal because you "want to make sure she isn't a gold-digger." If you cannot offer her an expensive lifestyle, do not pretend you can by taking her to the restaurant where the meal is too expensive for you. After all, it's just the meal. If you can't afford the meal, how are you going to afford a baby? or two?

also, a side remark: I do not have a habit of "testing" people, but I drop immediately people who try to play those tricks and games on me. That's a big NO for anything that might evolve into a long-term relationship, and it is plain unhealthy.

Now, on the topic of what constitutes a "real man" in FSU: the real man in FSU very often means the man who first impresses the woman, hence the expensive meals, flashy cars, dazzling prospectives, chivalry, flowers, door opening and all that. The controlling part usually starts later, after the "I will get for you the moon and the star" phase. In many cases, after they are married and the child is born. So basically you are trying to appear like a "manly uber controlling Russian man" while acting  from the stance of Protestant ethics (moderation, work, rational and conservative attitude to finances, no expensive meals, don't want to give her impression of possibility of rich life). Basically, you are doing or planning on doing the opposite of what a "real man" in FSU would be doing.

[mies]

You can probably get away with ordering a dessert for her without asking her which dessert she wants. 

NOOOOOO
ordering a dessert for a woman without asking her which dessert she wants is a blasphemy. No less. 

[mies]

and another "imho" point:
women in FSU cook. Much more often, and much more elaborately than women in USA or Western Europe. Often, for a number of reasons, they cook very elaborate (and numerous) meals from a limited number/variety of simple ingredients.

When FSU woman comes to a restaurant, this is an occasion for her to eat something that she doesn't normally cook at home. This is a special occasion for her, a treat.

This is why women often will be ordering the meal that is not the cheapest one. Not because they are gold-diggers, but because from their POV there is no interest in ordering a salad and paying for it $5-10, while she makes much better salads at home every day, and she knows that "real price" for that salad is 50 cents. From the point of view of a woman who cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner, and 10-/15-course birthday or holiday feast, paying in the restaurant $5 or $10 or $15 for  simple appetizer, something that is made from the same ingredients that she is used and skilled with, is a waste of money. Whereas, ordering some rare fish cooked in a wine sauce, is a justified expense of $30-40. Because she is curious what it is. In a way, it is a "professional" or "connoisseur" curiosity.

So basically my first reaction upon reading about "gold-digger restaurant test" in this thread was to somewhat agree. But then after some introspection and remembering the behavior of all my female friends and relatives back in FSU, I think this "test" will show absolutely nothing. You may be on a date with a spoiled woman who expects rich lifestyle, and you may be on a date with a woman who loves to cook and can cook really well, and she just doesn't have a feel of how much you can afford to spend on a restaurant (hence doesn't look too closely at the prices). 

[mhr7]

This is why women often will be ordering the meal that is not the cheapest one. Not because they are gold-diggers, but because from their POV there is no interest in ordering a salad and paying for it $5-10, while she makes much better salads at home every day, and she knows that "real price" for that salad is 50 cents. From the point of view of a woman who cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner, and 10-/15-course birthday or holiday feast, paying in the restaurant $5 or $10 or $15 for  simple appetizer, something that is made from the same ingredients that she is used and skilled with, is a waste of money. Whereas, ordering some rare fish cooked in a wine sauce, is a justified expense of $30-40. Because she is curious what it is. In a way, it is a "professional" or "connoisseur" curiosity.

My RW gets a little irritated when I order borshch in a restaurant. "I can make borshch for you at home".

[alex330]

When FSU woman comes to a restaurant, this is an occasion for her to eat something that she doesn't normally cook at home. This is a special occasion for her, a treat.

This is why women often will be ordering the meal that is not the cheapest one. Not because they are gold-diggers, but because from their POV there is no interest in ordering a salad and paying for it $5-10, while she makes much better salads at home every day, and she knows that "real price" for that salad is 50 cents. From the point of view of a woman who cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner, and 10-/15-course birthday or holiday feast, paying in the restaurant $5 or $10 or $15 for  simple appetizer, something that is made from the same ingredients that she is used and skilled with, is a waste of money. Whereas, ordering some rare fish cooked in a wine sauce, is a justified expense of $30-40. Because she is curious what it is. In a way, it is a "professional" or "connoisseur" curiosity.

Mies brings up a very good point. I see this with my wife all the time. If we cook grilled ribeye and lobster tail at the beach she will comment "in fancy restaurant we would have paid x for this meal".


Or if the restaurant serves something that did not take much time or was made with cheaper ingredients she may comment "it is not worth".


I still think it is an indicator of the type of woman she may be if she wants a bottle of overpriced Dom and the caviar stuffed organic Patagonian lobster. Just need to use common sense and feel it out.

[mies]

I still think it is an indicator of the type of woman she may be if she wants a bottle of overpriced Dom and the caviar stuffed organic Patagonian lobster. Just need to use common sense and feel it out.

true. going for expensive champagne and black caviar is clear sign for:
- entitlement attitude (aka "I deserve no less than...");
- lust for "glamour";
- active search for a man who can provide a "glamorous" lifestyle.

But then, again. How many restaurants have black caviar and very expensive champagne on their menus? Not that many, in fact.
If the guy cannot afford this lifestyle, but still takes his date to this restaurant - he wants to impress her, possibly feeling she is out-of-his league, and hoping to impress (fool) her, pretending to be the guy he isn't.
So who's a "shallow" and "bad" person in this scenario? The guy is also going after superficial things (looks), and hoping to get something that's otherwise out of his reach or what he can't afford.

[2tallbill]

When FSU woman comes to a restaurant, this is an occasion for her to eat something that she doesn't normally cook at home. This is a special occasion for her, a treat.

So basically my first reaction upon reading about "gold-digger restaurant test" in this thread was to somewhat agree. But then after some introspection and remembering the behavior of all my female friends and relatives back in FSU, I think this "test" will show absolutely nothing. You may be on a date with a spoiled woman who expects rich lifestyle, and you may be on a date with a woman who loves to cook and can cook really well, and she just doesn't have a feel of how much you can afford to spend on a restaurant (hence doesn't look too closely at the prices).

+1

I have too many experiences with FSUW to say that this girl is good or bad
based on what she ordered. I also have dated a number of FSUW in the USA
and the FSU and there is a big difference between what a girl will order in her
home city compared with what she would do in the USA.

In the FSU knowing that I cook, she might order something because she wants
me to try a bite of it. In the USA an FSUW might hesitate to order something
because she doesn't know what it is, or recognize the American name for it. 

If a girl says she's not hungry, I never believe her. I often suggest that I order
a combination of things, and we will put it all in the center of the table and then
we can each try a little of everything. Since I like almost everything, I can eat
whatever is left over or we can take it home. I've never had that suggestion
frowned upon. 

The number of times a NOT hungry girl ate enough to feed an army lends
credence to my theory of NOT believing in the NOT hungry girl claim. Often
times they are just trying to be polite. 

In the USA I get deferred to far more often. We were in North Dakota and
Angel Eyes never tried Walleye before. I told her that I really, really think
she would like it. She was game to try, and of course thought it was great.

Another time Angel Eyes wanted a fiery Szechuan shrimp salad. I told her I was
pretty sure that it would be too spicy for her so I ordered a Manderin Shrimp salad
for myself and after she took 3 bites she sheepishly tells me that it's too spicy for
her to eat. I offer to exchange her salad for mine and all was right with the world
once again.
 
One time I was dating an FSUW in the USA and we were doing on a road trip 4 hours.
I asked her what she wanted me to buy for the trip. Of course she said nothing, so I
told her I wanted something for myself. I came back with juice, fruit, bottled water,
nuts and some dehydrated fruit, she ate 90% of it.

You have to assume that they are hungry AND thirsty or will be soon.
 
IMPORTANT TO NOTE: According to Angel Eyes sometimes an FSUW will
order something expensive to see if the man is "Scrooge McDuck"
(her words, not mine) I've never had a girl run a Scrooge McDuck test on me.

Don't be a Scrooge McDuck! They would prefer that you had puss filled
blisters on your face, you don't have to throw money around either. Neither trait is
considered positive.