Should I Order for Her?

[msmob]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

Nope . I'm not sure where you glean this 'info' and unless your lady is fluent in English, the menu is in English and you are familiar with the cuisine - you're going to have some 'fun' leading

I still like Alex's idea the best she if she is a gold digger by ordering expensive stuff. Your idea is not bad though, I could suggest the cheaper stuff on the menu for her, see how she takes to it

May be do not go to a place where you can't afford it ?..

Just seen your reply msmob, looks like we're both early birds. Yeah for sure she is likely to be the best when it comes to ordering, was on both my two previous occasions in the Ukraine. Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

SC is in Thailand and she woke me up to remind me what I'm missing

This 'alpha male' stuff - forget it ... As I keep suggesting - be yourself and find a compatible partner !

[Bee Farmer]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

A manly man would choose the restaurant.  That is leading.  I'm hungry for _____.  This restaurant looks nice.  Let's try it.

If you ask her to suggest a restaurant, and she asks you what kind of restaurant you want to eat at, don't be all wishy washy and say you don't care what restaurant.  You'll seem like a wimp.  Be a man and have an opinion.  Tell her you want to try some Black Sea seafood...or a nice steak.

Choosing her food for her will seem controlling.  Let her decide what she wants to eat.  What you can do however, is to ask her what she wants you to order for her.  That gives her choice, but still allows you to be the man.  (However, waitresses don't always speak good English, so you may be better off letting the girl place her own order.)

You can probably get away with ordering a dessert for her without asking her which dessert she wants.  That can come across as trying to give her a special treat.  (But you can always ask her what kind of dessert she would like to try also.)

And when you go to take her out on the date...if you take a taxi or a bus, offer her your arm to help her when she climbs on/off the bus or getting out of a taxi.  Close the taxi door for her.  If you walk down the sidewalk, make sure you walk closest to the road, so if a car hits a mud puddle and splashes, it hits you instead of soaking her.  Offer her your arm when walking down the sidewalk.  Open the door to the restaurant for her.  Help her with her coat.  Pull out her chair for her.  If you get a bottle of wine, pour a cup of wine for her.  These are things a man who leads does.  he isn't trying to control or dominate the lady, but he is leading and taking charge and do things for his girl to show her she is special.

And make sure you ask her at least 5 questions about herself while you are on the date.  (It shows you are interested in getting to know her.  http://itsnotamatch.com/2012/07/26/how-did-your-date-go-use-the-test-of-5-questions/ )  Don't spend all the date talking about yourself.  She may be impressed by your accomplishments, but at the end of the night she will have the feeling that you were not really interested in getting to know who she is.

And don't gawk at all the pretty girls during your date.  Your date may get the idea you have wandering eyes and will be unfaithful.

[pokerintherear]

 If language is not an issue discuss the menu with her as to what both of you would like to order. When the waitress comes give the order for both of you. I think you will find this pleasing to her................Olga would like the fish and blah,blah and I will take the blah,blah,blah

She gets what she wants and you are the gentlemen. Don't make things so complicated.

[mies]

Wouldn't like to not be seen to be leading, lol. Anyway, isn't this what Russian guys do to show their manliness be uber controlling?

No. Never. Never in my experience. Although "manly" and controlling men always loved me back at home because i look (deceptively so) the "right type".
However, man is usually choosing the restaurant (back in Ukraine, maybe in Russian it is different, but i don't think so). Because usually (in 99.999% of cases) he is inviting.
FSU men may point to a menu saying "this is really good, you should try it", and usually they will be pointing to the most expensive meal.

You may, (imho) quite often, experience that woman would ask you to order for her, or will tell you she doesn't know what she wants, but that she likes xxxxx. Then you will order for her. Don't order something small and cheap, like a small snack or appetizer. Even if she says she isn't too hungry. Order something good, maybe something interesting and unusual for her.

But you should not be ordering/deciding for her before she explicitly asked you to do so.

I still like Alex's idea the best she if she is a gold digger by ordering expensive stuff. Your idea is not bad though, I could suggest the cheaper stuff on the menu for her, see how she takes to it

Just seen your reply msmob, looks like we're both early birds. Yeah for sure she is likely to be the best when it comes to ordering, was on both my two previous occasions in the Ukraine. Just heard all this stuff about 'leading' and was wondering how far it should all be take, i.e in case the FSW hungers after an extreme alpha male that decides all for her without question

You could suggest and should suggest what you think is good/delicious.
You are not the only one choosing. She is choosing too. While you are trying to "test" her, she might be "testing" you too, to see how stingy you are. Since you can choose a restaurant - choose the restaurant that is within your means. Do not take your date to the expensive restaurant because you want to impress her, and then suggest the affordable meal because you "want to make sure she isn't a gold-digger." If you cannot offer her an expensive lifestyle, do not pretend you can by taking her to the restaurant where the meal is too expensive for you. After all, it's just the meal. If you can't afford the meal, how are you going to afford a baby? or two?

also, a side remark: I do not have a habit of "testing" people, but I drop immediately people who try to play those tricks and games on me. That's a big NO for anything that might evolve into a long-term relationship, and it is plain unhealthy.

Now, on the topic of what constitutes a "real man" in FSU: the real man in FSU very often means the man who first impresses the woman, hence the expensive meals, flashy cars, dazzling prospectives, chivalry, flowers, door opening and all that. The controlling part usually starts later, after the "I will get for you the moon and the star" phase. In many cases, after they are married and the child is born. So basically you are trying to appear like a "manly uber controlling Russian man" while acting  from the stance of Protestant ethics (moderation, work, rational and conservative attitude to finances, no expensive meals, don't want to give her impression of possibility of rich life). Basically, you are doing or planning on doing the opposite of what a "real man" in FSU would be doing.

[mies]

You can probably get away with ordering a dessert for her without asking her which dessert she wants. 

NOOOOOO
ordering a dessert for a woman without asking her which dessert she wants is a blasphemy. No less. 

[mies]

and another "imho" point:
women in FSU cook. Much more often, and much more elaborately than women in USA or Western Europe. Often, for a number of reasons, they cook very elaborate (and numerous) meals from a limited number/variety of simple ingredients.

When FSU woman comes to a restaurant, this is an occasion for her to eat something that she doesn't normally cook at home. This is a special occasion for her, a treat.

This is why women often will be ordering the meal that is not the cheapest one. Not because they are gold-diggers, but because from their POV there is no interest in ordering a salad and paying for it $5-10, while she makes much better salads at home every day, and she knows that "real price" for that salad is 50 cents. From the point of view of a woman who cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner, and 10-/15-course birthday or holiday feast, paying in the restaurant $5 or $10 or $15 for  simple appetizer, something that is made from the same ingredients that she is used and skilled with, is a waste of money. Whereas, ordering some rare fish cooked in a wine sauce, is a justified expense of $30-40. Because she is curious what it is. In a way, it is a "professional" or "connoisseur" curiosity.

So basically my first reaction upon reading about "gold-digger restaurant test" in this thread was to somewhat agree. But then after some introspection and remembering the behavior of all my female friends and relatives back in FSU, I think this "test" will show absolutely nothing. You may be on a date with a spoiled woman who expects rich lifestyle, and you may be on a date with a woman who loves to cook and can cook really well, and she just doesn't have a feel of how much you can afford to spend on a restaurant (hence doesn't look too closely at the prices). 

[mhr7]

This is why women often will be ordering the meal that is not the cheapest one. Not because they are gold-diggers, but because from their POV there is no interest in ordering a salad and paying for it $5-10, while she makes much better salads at home every day, and she knows that "real price" for that salad is 50 cents. From the point of view of a woman who cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner, and 10-/15-course birthday or holiday feast, paying in the restaurant $5 or $10 or $15 for  simple appetizer, something that is made from the same ingredients that she is used and skilled with, is a waste of money. Whereas, ordering some rare fish cooked in a wine sauce, is a justified expense of $30-40. Because she is curious what it is. In a way, it is a "professional" or "connoisseur" curiosity.

My RW gets a little irritated when I order borshch in a restaurant. "I can make borshch for you at home".

[alex330]

When FSU woman comes to a restaurant, this is an occasion for her to eat something that she doesn't normally cook at home. This is a special occasion for her, a treat.

This is why women often will be ordering the meal that is not the cheapest one. Not because they are gold-diggers, but because from their POV there is no interest in ordering a salad and paying for it $5-10, while she makes much better salads at home every day, and she knows that "real price" for that salad is 50 cents. From the point of view of a woman who cooks breakfast, lunch and dinner, and 10-/15-course birthday or holiday feast, paying in the restaurant $5 or $10 or $15 for  simple appetizer, something that is made from the same ingredients that she is used and skilled with, is a waste of money. Whereas, ordering some rare fish cooked in a wine sauce, is a justified expense of $30-40. Because she is curious what it is. In a way, it is a "professional" or "connoisseur" curiosity.

Mies brings up a very good point. I see this with my wife all the time. If we cook grilled ribeye and lobster tail at the beach she will comment "in fancy restaurant we would have paid x for this meal".


Or if the restaurant serves something that did not take much time or was made with cheaper ingredients she may comment "it is not worth".


I still think it is an indicator of the type of woman she may be if she wants a bottle of overpriced Dom and the caviar stuffed organic Patagonian lobster. Just need to use common sense and feel it out.

[mies]

I still think it is an indicator of the type of woman she may be if she wants a bottle of overpriced Dom and the caviar stuffed organic Patagonian lobster. Just need to use common sense and feel it out.

true. going for expensive champagne and black caviar is clear sign for:
- entitlement attitude (aka "I deserve no less than...");
- lust for "glamour";
- active search for a man who can provide a "glamorous" lifestyle.

But then, again. How many restaurants have black caviar and very expensive champagne on their menus? Not that many, in fact.
If the guy cannot afford this lifestyle, but still takes his date to this restaurant - he wants to impress her, possibly feeling she is out-of-his league, and hoping to impress (fool) her, pretending to be the guy he isn't.
So who's a "shallow" and "bad" person in this scenario? The guy is also going after superficial things (looks), and hoping to get something that's otherwise out of his reach or what he can't afford.

[2tallbill]

When FSU woman comes to a restaurant, this is an occasion for her to eat something that she doesn't normally cook at home. This is a special occasion for her, a treat.

So basically my first reaction upon reading about "gold-digger restaurant test" in this thread was to somewhat agree. But then after some introspection and remembering the behavior of all my female friends and relatives back in FSU, I think this "test" will show absolutely nothing. You may be on a date with a spoiled woman who expects rich lifestyle, and you may be on a date with a woman who loves to cook and can cook really well, and she just doesn't have a feel of how much you can afford to spend on a restaurant (hence doesn't look too closely at the prices).

+1

I have too many experiences with FSUW to say that this girl is good or bad
based on what she ordered. I also have dated a number of FSUW in the USA
and the FSU and there is a big difference between what a girl will order in her
home city compared with what she would do in the USA.

In the FSU knowing that I cook, she might order something because she wants
me to try a bite of it. In the USA an FSUW might hesitate to order something
because she doesn't know what it is, or recognize the American name for it. 

If a girl says she's not hungry, I never believe her. I often suggest that I order
a combination of things, and we will put it all in the center of the table and then
we can each try a little of everything. Since I like almost everything, I can eat
whatever is left over or we can take it home. I've never had that suggestion
frowned upon. 

The number of times a NOT hungry girl ate enough to feed an army lends
credence to my theory of NOT believing in the NOT hungry girl claim. Often
times they are just trying to be polite. 

In the USA I get deferred to far more often. We were in North Dakota and
Angel Eyes never tried Walleye before. I told her that I really, really think
she would like it. She was game to try, and of course thought it was great.

Another time Angel Eyes wanted a fiery Szechuan shrimp salad. I told her I was
pretty sure that it would be too spicy for her so I ordered a Manderin Shrimp salad
for myself and after she took 3 bites she sheepishly tells me that it's too spicy for
her to eat. I offer to exchange her salad for mine and all was right with the world
once again.
 
One time I was dating an FSUW in the USA and we were doing on a road trip 4 hours.
I asked her what she wanted me to buy for the trip. Of course she said nothing, so I
told her I wanted something for myself. I came back with juice, fruit, bottled water,
nuts and some dehydrated fruit, she ate 90% of it.

You have to assume that they are hungry AND thirsty or will be soon.
 
IMPORTANT TO NOTE: According to Angel Eyes sometimes an FSUW will
order something expensive to see if the man is "Scrooge McDuck"
(her words, not mine) I've never had a girl run a Scrooge McDuck test on me.

Don't be a Scrooge McDuck! They would prefer that you had puss filled
blisters on your face, you don't have to throw money around either. Neither trait is
considered positive.