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RWD Discussion Groups => Cultural and Political Events => Topic started by: Jamesukjames on June 15, 2019, 08:00:39 AM

Title: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Jamesukjames on June 15, 2019, 08:00:39 AM
USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2019, 08:49:08 AM

How is sabotaging a few oil tankers going to start a war? Trump may send a few missiles and bombs to Iran but there will be no war. America didn't go to war after the first World Trade Center bombing. America didn't go to war after the USS Cole was bombed and 17 sailors got killed. America didn't go to war when rebels, using an Iranian missile shot down our drone. America didn't go to war when rebels sent missiles into an airport in Saudi Arabia. America didn't go to war when tankers were sabotage a week ago. America didn't go to war after Iran supplied weapons to groups that target our troops in the Middle East.

Iran has always and will continue to do damage to others that won't start a war. If you think Trump is sabotaging the tankers and trying to start a war, he's doing a poor job of getting support for a full on war. If an American carrier sinks, then we are talking war.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Faux Pas on June 15, 2019, 09:14:18 AM
USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways

A greater display of gross ignorance has never been displayed on this forum and there have been many in contention
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2019, 09:28:34 AM
Crew of the Japanese tanker abandoned ship after discovering an unexploded mine above the waterline. It was high enough on the hull that an IRGC Gashti Class patrol boat was at the perfect height to remove it...and place it there. If Iran didn't do the dirty deed, they should'nt have sent their patrol boat there to remove it so it can be inspected by the international community on the origin of the mine. Video in the link below clearly shows IRGC Gashti Class patrol boat on the tanker. There are some that's going to believe that Iranian boat just happened to be innocently floating next to the ship that got sabotaged. Luckily the Iranian crew on that patrol boat are mine experts since they knew how to remove the mine safely from the hull of the ship.

http://www.yahoo.com/news/tensions-oil-tanker-attacks-us-video-iranian-patrol-boat-070206514.html
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 15, 2019, 09:36:29 AM
*I* don't think it was a 'mine' and neither do the ships owners

http://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman.html)


IF it was a false flag operation - a 'ruse' to excuse an attack on Iran - don't you think we'd have seen the 'response' by now ..

I thought 'Trampu' didn't want a war ..?   

Methinks the hardline Iranian govt know this and are playing this realy smart ...


As we've seen with Moscow - always deny involvment




Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 15, 2019, 09:45:07 AM
Here is a link to an Iranian billboard claiming to drown American and
Jewish sailors.

http://isicrc.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Screen-Shot-2019-05-29-at-3.53.37-PM-2.png

I only provided the link because somebody will cry if I posted a photo here
which makes them have to scroll across the page.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2019, 09:52:32 AM
*I* don't think it was a 'mine' and neither do the ships owners

http://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman.html (http://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/14/world/middleeast/oil-tanker-attack-gulf-oman.html)


The Japanese tanker never caught fire like the other one. The very light damage on their side looks like it could come from a projectile that doesn't have much or any explosives. Could be a projectile shot to blow up the unexploded mine after its timer or transmission receiver failed. Regardless of the light damage from a projectile, the Japanese crew decided to abandon ship AFTER they discovered the unexploded mine on the side of their ship.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 15, 2019, 10:56:56 AM
Yup, 'sorry' BillyB.. I forgot you'd 'know' more about it than the owner ..
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: tfcrew on June 15, 2019, 11:36:19 AM
Quote
USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Evidence?

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 15, 2019, 11:53:34 AM
Yup, 'sorry' BillyB.. I forgot you'd 'know' more about it than the owner ..

You still haven't learned not to use anti Trump fake news sources. Try news out of Japan where they say the crew spotted an Iranian boat. Your news doesn't state what the owner of the tanker think about what the Iranian boat was doing on it's hull. Even if one of the mines didn't go off, Trump isn't wrong about the two boats being attacked by mines. As more evidence and statements come out over the next few days, anti Trump news who's sole purpose is to call Trump a liar will be proven wrong again.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: tfcrew on June 15, 2019, 01:13:45 PM
You still haven't learned not to use anti Trump fake news sources. Try news out of Japan where they say the crew spotted an Iranian boat. Your news doesn't state what the owner of the tanker think about what the Iranian boat was doing on it's hull. 
The New York Pravda Times? Video from the British press- The boat alongside to yank away evidence of the real culprits....  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-48648788
 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 15, 2019, 04:53:43 PM
James, I believe you mistakenly have drunk some leachate from your industrial waste sites.    Your brain is inoperative. 

Iran is quite possibly the most untrustworthy government on earth based on my personal experience of having lived there and worked there.   And they are now worse in different ways, e. g.,  the semi-independent IRGC capable of anything. 

No way would the US ever enter a ground war with Iran.   It would be unwinnable.   Larger than Afghanistan, more populous than Afghanistan, and crazier than Afghanistan.    There are viable options, however, if the situation deteriorates. 

When something similar happened about 30 years ago, we responded with Operation Praying Mantis (largest naval engagement since WWII).  Lasted one day and destroyed half of Iran's navy.  One problem -  today's IRGC was not even born then, so they have no memory of getting hit hard.       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis  The worse part we mistakenly shot down an Iranian commercial passenger jet. 

The US is a net producer of energy. so the situation is not so important to us other than  to maintain stability in the region.

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: calmissile on June 15, 2019, 10:59:09 PM
A greater display of gross ignorance has never been displayed on this forum and there have been many in contention

 :clapping: :clapping:
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 16, 2019, 12:39:38 AM
Now, silly BillyB is stupid enough to tell us the CEO of the firm that owns the tanker 'didn't say say what he did - because the NYT said so' !   :ROFL:


You still haven't learned not to use anti Trump fake news sources.


Classic:

Try news out of Japan where they say the crew spotted an Iranian boat.


Source?

I only ask as I did what you said and the CEO backs the NYT ( not mines or topedoes - AIRBORNE )

http://www.chunichi.co.jp/s/article/2019061401001796.html (http://www.chunichi.co.jp/s/article/2019061401001796.html)

Did you forget I told you my step-son's better half is Japanese ? ;)


Your news doesn't state what the owner of the tanker think about what the Iranian boat was doing on it's hull.


MY Japanese article say they were attacted - TWICE and if you bothered to read Japanese news, too - you'd know that the Japs aren't blaming the Iranians, yet -seeking more evidence



BillyB's 'conclusions' are hilarious..


Even if one of the mines didn't go off, Trump isn't wrong about the two boats being attacked by mines. As more evidence and statements come out over the next few days, anti Trump news who's sole purpose is to call Trump a liar will be proven wrong again.

IF he was so sure - where's the 'reponse', Billy ?

So, v.Silly BillyB is the Jap CEO 'lying' about what his crew saw ... the 'airborne objects' ?

Maybe you should check other news sources to realise what a chump you look


Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2019, 07:41:34 AM
Now, silly BillyB is stupid enough to tell us the CEO of the firm that owns the tanker 'didn't say say what he did - because the NYT said so' !   :ROFL:


Fake News takes statements out of context on a regular basis to make Trump look bad. You presented an article where the CEO of the Japanese tanker said he felt it was a flying projectile that hit his ship and not a mine contradicting what Trump says. So fake news media runs with that statement worldwide to prove Trump is a liar. Watch the video in the link below more towards the end when the Japanese CEO is taking about the incident. He concludes his feelings that the damage came from a flying projectile is an assumption or guess. He really doesn't know because he's not a munitions expert. But fake news won't tell you that part. They just promote him as the authority on what happened over Trump ignoring the fact he said he was just guessing what happened to his ship.

You've been duped by the NYT and a number of other news sources Trump was guilty of collusion for over two years. When will you learn? Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. They've fooled you hundreds of times. They get the blame the first time they did it. You should be ashamed of yourself for letting yourself get duped over and over again.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/trumps-consistent-criticism-of-iran-pushes-us-to-point-of-potential-conflict/ar-AACVBnq?ocid=spartanntp
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Jamesukjames on June 16, 2019, 08:10:44 AM
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild.  Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.  Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end.  98% of products sold in Walmart made in China.  USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 16, 2019, 08:35:00 AM
(http://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/picture/realadam/tin3.jpg)
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Faux Pas on June 16, 2019, 09:51:25 AM
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild.  Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.  Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end.  98% of products sold in Walmart made in China.  USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.

The collective IQ of this forum drops 35 points every time you post. We're dumber just from reading it
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2019, 10:34:40 AM
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon


For you to believe that, you have to believe America took out our own World Trade Center with explosives after the planes hit. You have to believe a large crew of demolition experts entered the buildings that are occupied 24/7 and drilled into the columns without making noise and dust and planted explosives. You have to believe every man on the demolition team will take the secret to their graves without talking. You have to believe Bush is the mastermind. You also have to believe hundreds of Representatives and Senators are in on it to since they approve the war with Afghanistan. They too would have to take the secret to the their graves. So what did Bush get out of this diabolical scheme? Is he much richer or leader of the New World Order? He's basically a nobody right now and probably giving speeches on occasion to pick up some extra cash.

so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild.


Sabotaging our allies tankers are going to do what? Should we get caught, the cost to America's reputation and economy should we engage in being a hostile actor  is going to help us in what way?

Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. 


Because people didn't take WMDs in Iraq seriously, hundreds of American soldiers fighting in Iraq were exposed and now have lifetime illnesses. Finally they got an apology.

http://www.vetshq.com/2015/03/army-apologizes-vets-affected-chemical-weapons-in-iraq/

Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end. 


Did a conspiracy theory website tell you that?

98% of products sold in Walmart made in China. 


What does what's sold in Walmart have to do with what is going on in the Strait of Hormuz or America as a whole?

USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.


When those two fall, somebody(s) have to rise. Which country(s) has the trust of the World community to adopt their currency and have their troops being invited into other nations to provide security? If you believe the UK is evil, why not move to a place you respect? If you marry an FSU woman and bring her to your country and you start complaining about where you live and how evil the government is, it's not going to go well for you. Multiply bad by 10 if she finds out you're reading conspiracy theory websites to get educated on how the world works.

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 16, 2019, 11:20:19 AM
Let's not let James' divert us us from Silly BillyB's contention that that the NYT posted 'fake news'...

BillyB likes to lay smokescreens and introduces red herrings to divert ..

We can deal with his confusion with soldiers suffering the effects of spent uranium and blaming it on 'WMD' another time...



Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2019, 11:29:52 AM
Let's not let James' divert us us from Silly BillyB's contention that that the NYT posted 'fake news'...


You still believe the CEO is the authority on what happened to his ship after I showed you a video of him saying his conclusion about what happened is an assumption or guess. It's people like you that keep NYT in business. Tabloid quality journalism bashing Trump is what you want and they will continue to provide. Garbage in, garbage out. Get your head examined by a professional.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 16, 2019, 11:31:40 AM
Moby, you and Billy need couples therapy. 

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 16, 2019, 11:36:00 AM
Gator, if you mean I am stubborn, granted..

However, unlike BillyB..I DO have a clue..

Now, please tell us how where you disagree with what I posted...!
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2019, 11:46:21 AM
Moby, you and Billy need couples therapy.

This week he's banging heads with me. Next week he'll be banging heads with somebody else. It'll never end.  I've concluded he likes to bang his head. I know his history here and elsewhere being banned multiple times. Even so, I tried to be nice to him but eventually, he gets under everybody's skin ruining all relationships. Surprisingly, this forum is 10 times nicer to Moby than the other. Probably why he feels welcomed here. Anyway, Happy Father's Day everyone! Got to go. My son wants to fill my belly.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: tfcrew on June 16, 2019, 02:43:38 PM
   I've concluded he likes to bang his head.
(http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/Smileys/DarkB/cheesy.gif) Headbangers...I've heard of them.
 
(http://media.tenor.com/images/91d0caf00a59bf129df17136ec8e3dd4/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 16, 2019, 04:15:35 PM

Now, please tell us how where you disagree with what I posted...!

Please don't read anything into it.  I did not read your post.  I don't have  much time, and it seemed you and Billy are bickering in multiple threads.     

Moby, you have demonstrated earlier that you know how the ignore function works. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 16, 2019, 04:43:07 PM
USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways

I certainly have zero faith that our government sources are telling the truth.   I wouldn't be surprised if we (The US) did have something to do with any incidents we try to pin on Iran.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 16, 2019, 04:44:54 PM
A greater display of gross ignorance has never been displayed on this forum and there have been many in contention

Not so fast, it would be gross ignorance to exonerate the US from being capable of creating an incident to put more pressure on Iran.    Our efforts to isolate Iran are failing so I wouldn't be surprised if we took it to the next level.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 16, 2019, 04:48:02 PM


When something similar happened about 30 years ago, we responded with Operation Praying Mantis (largest naval engagement since WWII).  Lasted one day and destroyed half of Iran's navy.  One problem -  today's IRGC was not even born then, so they have no memory of getting hit hard.       http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Praying_Mantis  The worse part we mistakenly shot down an Iranian commercial passenger jet. 

The US is a net producer of energy. so the situation is not so important to us other than  to maintain stability in the region.
...and what if somebody destroyed half our navy?  how would you expect us (The US) to respond?

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 16, 2019, 04:49:35 PM
Come on the USA fired a missile at the pentagon so firing at a few tankers is relatively mild.  Lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.  Is about to start a war with Iran that it has no plans for how to end.  98% of products sold in Walmart made in China.  USA like UK in the last throws of its own down fall sending out a wave of misery to other countries.
As we (The US) should see, even our allies are seriously and rightfully questioning what we are up to.  Can't blame them when people like Pompeo and Bolton are out there making up lies to suit our needs.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2019, 06:47:38 PM

House Intelligence Committee Chair Adam "impeach Trump" Shiff agrees with Trump that Iran did it. Those two agreeing on something? What's the world coming to? Besides video evidence, hopefully they got some intercepted radio or phone conversations of the people committing the sabotage.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/schiff-agrees-with-trump-no-question-iran-attacked-oil-tankers

Insurance rates go up for ships moving through the Strait of Hormuz. Insurance companies say if a ship sinks, they will be charging war premiums. Expect your gas prices to go up. I'm doubt Iranian tankers will be getting sabotaged. Rates should remain low for them.

http://www.reuters.com/article/mideast-attacks-insurance/ship-insurance-costs-soar-after-middle-east-tanker-attacks-idUSL8N23L2ND
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 16, 2019, 08:41:49 PM
For you to believe that, you have to believe America took out our own World Trade Center with explosives after the planes hit. You have to believe..................

Billy, in the past I have been frustrated when you make arguments like this.
"If you believe A then you must believe B", Then argue about B.

In the Pentagon there were Army, Navy, Marine, Coast Guard and others.
You were a Marine and therefore always a Marine. While you probably can't
speak with complete authority on all those other services I'm pretty sure that
you could make an argument that they wouldn't have allowed an attack on
themselves so that a politician could bump up his poll numbers or whatever.

The very idea of the Pentagon being attacked and then being fooled about who 
did it is preposterous. The very idea that some buch of renegades could pull
this off is equally ridiculous. Do it and get away with it? Absurd, crazy, and
impossible. 

Don't forget that the FBI and FAA ran investigations as well and therefore must
have colluded on deceiving the public that a plane and aviation fuel caused the
death, carnage and damage rather than a missile shot from only the OP knows
where like the OP posited.

For the OP to have an accurate depiction of events a GIANT multitude of people
must have been both in it and the cover up and nobody broke. Possibly a thousand
or more people who some of which didn't give a fig about Bush's polls numbers
or whatever possible motive the OP the has in mind.

You argued the point that the World Trade Center had good security, but you
could have argued that the Pentagon is a nearly unbreachable installation with
incredible technology and very competent professionals who take their jobs very,
very seriously.

Arguing the point that the OP stated makes a lot more sense than arguing a point
that he didn't.

That's my two kopecks

Bill
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 16, 2019, 09:56:21 PM
Arguing the point that the OP stated makes a lot more sense than arguing a point
that he didn't.


Conspiracy theorists say the hole in the pentagon building was too small for a 757 impact so it was our own missile that did it and our military was involved. They believe all of 9/11 was initiated by our government. How do you argue the size of a hole a 757 makes in the side of a building? Nobody is an expert on the size of the hole a 757 makes when entering a building because it doesn't happen everyday so it's not easy to debate a conspiracy theorist on that.  it's easier to debate the World Trade Center operation. BTW, I was in the Army, not Marines.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 17, 2019, 12:06:33 AM
This week he's banging heads with me. Next week he'll be banging heads with somebody else. It'll never end.  I've concluded he likes to bang his head. I know his history here and elsewhere being banned multiple times. Even so, I tried to be nice to him but eventually, he gets under everybody's skin ruining all relationships. Surprisingly, this forum is 10 times nicer to Moby than the other. Probably why he feels welcomed here. Anyway, Happy Father's Day everyone! Got to go. My son wants to fill my belly.

What BillyB calls 'banging heads' - is normally my pointing out - yet another howler of his..

My 'history' is it doesn't matter who they are - if I disagree - I'll post to that effect ..

Some posters seem to take being busted - a lot - rather personally and then divert to my off board life ..


This forum isn't run by somone who has taken money from the Kremlin and who likes to edit my posts, ( or make them disappear when they hit home ) edits my profile, suggests I do / didsomething I didn't, and even nicked by avatar from here .. :popcorn:

Some posters think it is more important to be 'popular'



Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 17, 2019, 01:18:25 AM
What BillyB calls 'banging heads' - is normally my pointing out - yet another howler of his..

My 'history' is it doesn't matter who they are - if I disagree - I'll post to that effect ..

This forum isn't run by somone who has taken money from the Kremlin and who likes to edit my posts, ( or make them disappear when they hit home ) edits my profile, suggests I do / didsomething I didn't, and even nicked by avatar from here .. :popcorn:



Yet you have no sympathy for my "hero" Alex Jones?


Well there goes the power... Just for a few seconds...  :clapping:
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 17, 2019, 03:49:04 AM
Your Alex Jones incites hatred and has been a proven liar ...

Mind you....some of 'Trampu's' retweets aren't much 'better'....

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 17, 2019, 04:21:50 AM
Your Alex Jones incites hatred and has been a proven liar ...

Mind you....some of 'Trampu's' retweets aren't much 'better'....


I've been listening to Jones for 12 years. I know him better than probably better than anyone here. I disagree with your judgment of him.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 17, 2019, 05:22:43 AM

I've been listening to Jones for 12 years. I know him better than probably better than anyone here. I disagree with your judgment of him.

Not my judgement..he was tried and the case proven in Court
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 17, 2019, 07:18:22 AM
Not my judgement..he was tried and the case proven in Court


You are very naive about the American "Justice" system and the courts. Get the last word in and let us never discuss politics again.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 17, 2019, 07:36:25 AM
Ah....

'OK'. Unfair voting systems and dodgy leglitive system..;)
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2019, 08:10:36 AM
USA the UK does not want to follow you into a war with Iran please stop blowing up tankers and blaming Iran enough of the USAs war like ways

James-

If you knew the history behind the 'hate' between the US and Iran, maybe you'd take a more humble position today. After all, it would've been easy to get along with Iran today, but then you and your queen would still be digging through the ashes of the world wars you and your esteemed colonial cohorts extolled upon our world.

As for the idea the US 'bombing' the tankers, far fetched to subscribe to at this time. However, remembering the Tonkin gulf, Syria's chemical attacks, Libya, the Balkans, Ukraine...it won't be outside the realm of possibilities...CIA? Study Cuba post-WWII.

US Intelligence. No longer valid considering the recent revelations on our intelligence agencies led by John Brenner, James Clapper and James Comey. Two years of special counsel's 'supposed' investigation over an allegation created by the very same 'US intelligence agencies' investigating it, as their insurance if 'our version of a democratic election' didn't go as they designed. Cat..chase...tail.

Democracy, US-style: Laughable at this time. Laying witness to the current political climate in clear display of our version of democracy for the entire world to see. Who the heck would want to adopt, emulate or be subjected to this type of freedom and democracy. The US can't even honor the office of the executive branch who was legitimately voted and appointed by its constituents. Instead, you have its media and opposition political party create nefarious and faux realities to obstruct and oppose the will of its peoples. This is democratic? BS!

Sovereign Sanctity, meddling and interference: Even bigger hyperbole. Qadaffi, Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Mohammad Pahlavi, Somoza clan, Cesar Guzzetti -dot-dot-dot Much too many interferences and meddling to mention.

It amuses me having discussions like this over matters each of our collective governments have their dirty hands on. Peewee Hermann debate, "I know you are but what am I?"

Surely James, based on your country's long history of greed and murder, I'd think you'd be the last guy bathing yourself with faux benevolence.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 17, 2019, 08:13:46 AM
....This forum isn't run by somone who has taken money from the Kremlin and who likes to edit my posts, ( or make them disappear when they hit home ) edits my profile, suggests I do / didsomething I didn't, and even nicked by avatar from here ..

Nooooo! Disappearing posts that hit home?!? That actually happens here??? You don't say....

Quote
Some posters think it is more important to be 'popular'

Images in the mirror are closer than they appear. Yes indeedy! :P
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: mhr7 on June 17, 2019, 10:17:03 AM

You are very naive about the American "Justice" system and the courts. Get the last word in and let us never discuss politics again.

See how paranoid Jones has made you?
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 17, 2019, 10:19:38 PM
See how paranoid Jones has made you?


My fear of the US "justice" system happened years before my discovery of Jones. I married a Russian woman in 2002 in Russia. When she got to USA, well... I found out the laws are written in favor of women and immigrants and those laws are influenced by women's advocacy groups and the 20,000 immigration attorneys in the US. I have no criminal record, spotless. But there are other ways where the unfairness of the system can hurt and cause fear of it. Jones has nothing to do with my mistrust of the "justice" system.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 17, 2019, 10:46:48 PM
James-

If you knew the history behind the 'hate' between the US and Iran, maybe you'd take a more humble position today. After all, it would've been easy to get along with Iran today, but then you and your queen would still be digging through the ashes of the world wars you and your esteemed colonial cohorts extolled upon our world.

As for the idea the US 'bombing' the tankers, far fetched to subscribe to at this time. However, remembering the Tonkin gulf, Syria's chemical attacks, Libya, the Balkans, Ukraine...it won't be outside the realm of possibilities...CIA? Study Cuba post-WWII.

US Intelligence. No longer valid considering the recent revelations on our intelligence agencies led by John Brenner, James Clapper and James Comey. Two years of special counsel's 'supposed' investigation over an allegation created by the very same 'US intelligence agencies' investigating it, as their insurance if 'our version of a democratic election' didn't go as they designed. Cat..chase...tail.

Democracy, US-style: Laughable at this time. Laying witness to the current political climate in clear display of our version of democracy for the entire world to see. Who the heck would want to adopt, emulate or be subjected to this type of freedom and democracy. The US can't even honor the office of the executive branch who was legitimately voted and appointed by its constituents. Instead, you have its media and opposition political party create nefarious and faux realities to obstruct and oppose the will of its peoples. This is democratic? BS!

Sovereign Sanctity, meddling and interference: Even bigger hyperbole. Qadaffi, Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Mohammad Pahlavi, Somoza clan, Cesar Guzzetti -dot-dot-dot Much too many interferences and meddling to mention.

It amuses me having discussions like this over matters each of our collective governments have their dirty hands on. Peewee Hermann debate, "I know you are but what am I?"

Surely James, based on your country's long history of greed and murder, I'd think you'd be the last guy bathing yourself with faux benevolence.


GQ, most people are incapable of "linking." Certainly with events that happened 50-60 years ago. That kind of thinking is called "conspiracy theory" and grown ups are not supposed to engage in that. I see it is as Orwellian "stop think" that the MSM indoctrinated the population with. Now with the advent of internet more and more people are coming around to the thought that there is a "Deep State". And this Deep State has a history of staging "false flags".


Interestingly Alex Jones has taken the position it was Iran that did it. But others in his circle say it might be the Deep State trying to lurer Trump into yet another war. And for two reasons. First is the value of defense stocks rise dramatically during a time of war. Deep Staters are heavily invested in defense stocks and there are no breaks on budgetary spending at this time. So a perfect time for them to make a killing in the stock market. The second reason for war is to make it unpopular thus hurting Trump. Iran could be a tough nut to crack. If some of their thousands of missiles get through and some Naval ships are sunk... The Deep State is in a 'Win Win' position then, especially if Trump loses the next election and they are free to run wild in the government as they have been doing.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 18, 2019, 09:19:24 AM
Your Alex Jones incites hatred and has been a proven liar ...

Mind you....some of 'Trampu's' retweets aren't much 'better'....

Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story when
anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and
the right to free speech especially political speech.

You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 18, 2019, 09:26:45 AM
Conspiracy theorists say the hole in the pentagon building was too small for a 757 impact so it was our own missile that did it and our military was involved. They believe all of 9/11 was initiated by our government. How do you argue the size of a hole a 757 makes in the side of a building? Nobody is an expert on the size of the hole a 757 makes when entering a building because it doesn't happen everyday so it's not easy to debate a conspiracy theorist on that.  it's easier to debate the World Trade Center operation. BTW, I was in the Army, not Marines.

It's difficult to argue with conspiracy theorists in general, but better to argue
against what they say rather than what they don't say.

I apologize for my faulty memory about the Army. 

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Boethius on June 18, 2019, 12:14:49 PM
Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story when anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and the right to free speech especially political speech.

You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.

Did moby suggest Jones should be shut down?  I didn't read that.

Andrew Anglin, the neo Nazi founder of The Daily Stormer, claims Jones was his first introduction to his extreme views. 

http://soundcloud.com/user-361007340/andrew-anglin (http://soundcloud.com/user-361007340/andrew-anglin)

Google was used to find the link to Andrew Anglin's interview.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 18, 2019, 03:54:36 PM
...Interestingly Alex Jones has taken the position it was Iran that did it. But others in his circle say it might be the Deep State trying to lurer Trump into yet another war. And for two reasons. First is the value of defense stocks rise dramatically during a time of war. Deep Staters are heavily invested in defense stocks and there are no breaks on budgetary spending at this time. So a perfect time for them to make a killing in the stock market. The second reason for war is to make it unpopular thus hurting Trump. Iran could be a tough nut to crack. If some of their thousands of missiles get through and some Naval ships are sunk... The Deep State is in a 'Win Win' position then, especially if Trump loses the next election and they are free to run wild in the government as they have been doing.

Like I said above...at this time I can't 'see' the US having anything to do with the bombing of the tankers, but I am also reminded of the things we've done in the past that I didn't believe at the time.

As for Alex Jones, I listen to him as much as I do Bill "Brave? The 911 terrorists were brave!" Maher. Which is 'never'. I kind of tune out the fringes from both sides but accept they both have their respective audiences.

...You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.

Ain't that the truth! But they sure love to trumpet theirs at their leisure.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: mhr7 on June 18, 2019, 06:37:23 PM
Quote
You lefties  The progressives are all about shutting down free speech.

Us 'lefties' are all for free speech.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 18, 2019, 07:14:47 PM
One of the things we do here in the USA is we smear 'enemies', and make them out to be bad actors.  In reality in most cases they are competitors that are beating us at something, so we make them out to be something terrible, like in the case of Iran.   

Now Alex Jones is accused of sending child porn.  He has made many despicable statements and injured lots of people with his often baseless accusations.  I do think he incites hatred.   Now he is whining because he is facing accusations of child porn and that will dog him in the same way he has unjustifiably dogged others.  I doubt he is guilty of this, but I don't feel sorry for him either. 

Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story when
anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and
the right to free speech especially political speech.
 
Lawyers: Files sent by Alex Jones contained child porn

Lawyers for the families of children and adults killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School disclosed Monday that child pornography was found in electronic files sent to them by conspiracy theorist Infowars host Alex Jones.

The pornography was found in email metadata files Jones' attorneys turned over to the families' lawyers as part of the discovery process of a defamation lawsuit, which was filed in a Connecticut court last year in response to discussions on Jones' show about the school shooting being a hoax....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-infowars-host-alex-jones-202021411.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-infowars-host-alex-jones-202021411.html)

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 18, 2019, 09:46:35 PM


You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.

IF, I'm a 'leftie' - you must be right of Attilla the Hun ..  Plenty of right of centre folks abhore [ spelling error corrected ]  'Brexit' and held no fear over migrants coming from the EU - given it had a postitive effect on our economy, overall ..

Naturally, if you canot understand your Alex Jones is a a wack job and HAS incited violence ..  there's nothing more to debate ..

 'Free Speech' - YES  ..promoting polarisation, NO

'Our' Alex Jones is much more appealing - she hosts an early evening show on BB! weekdays - but is on maternity leave at the mo
(http://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/healthandbeauty/mother-and-baby/2019061274124/alex-jones-baby-date-chris-evans-wife-natasha/0-360-877/alex-jones-and-baby-kit-z.jpg)

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 18, 2019, 10:42:11 PM
Alex Jones does no such thing (incite hatred), he has stuck to a story when
anyone must surely know it's not true, but he has a right to his opinion and
the right to free speech especially political speech.

You lefties are all about shutting down free speech.




Six months ago Jones was "deplatformed" all at the same time by all the big players. He was kicked off of Facebook, Youtube, Twitter, Google (diverted searches) and many other platforms. PayPal kicked him off. Some his associates had their bank accounts shut down. Facebook users, including two members that used to post here, have been banned on FB. This morning I notice a guy that used to post here name "Golden" had his Facebook photo deleted. It has even gotten to the point that saying positive things about Jones can get you banned. Say negative things is OK by Jack Dorsey and others but not positive things. Any conservative on the "fringe" is under the watch and censor. You mainstream conservatives should be alarmed. Ever heard of "shadow banned?" That is getting banned and not knowing it. Or have your hit counts deliberately cut down by a leftist working for Google or FB. Or having searches diverted to acceptable sites. 


I ordered some nascent iodine from the InfoWars store. I got this shirt for free. Moby took the photo.


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48090362826_fb74ebc6a5.jpg)


"First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me"


Quote
"First they came ..." is the poetic form of a prose post- war confession first made in German in 1946 by the German Lutheran (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism) pastor Martin Niemöller (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Niem%C3%B6ller) (1892–1984). It is about the cowardice (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cowardice) of German intellectuals and certain clergy (including, by his own repeated admissions, Niemöller himself) following the Nazis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_Party)' rise to power (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler%27s_rise_to_power) and subsequent incremental purging (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purge) of their chosen targets, group after group. Many variations and adaptations in the spirit of the original have been published in the English language. It deals with themes of persecution (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution), guilt (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guilt_(emotion)), repentance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repentance), and responsibility (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_responsibility).



It used to be liberals said, (and some still do) "I don't agree with what you say but I defend your right to say it."
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 18, 2019, 10:47:02 PM
One of the things we do here in the USA is we smear 'enemies', and make them out to be bad actors.  In reality in most cases they are competitors that are beating us at something, so we make them out to be something terrible, like in the case of Iran.   

Now Alex Jones is accused of sending child porn.  He has made many despicable statements and injured lots of people with his often baseless accusations.  I do think he incites hatred.   Now he is whining because he is facing accusations of child porn and that will dog him in the same way he has unjustifiably dogged others.  I doubt he is guilty of this, but I don't feel sorry for him either. 
Lawyers: Files sent by Alex Jones contained child porn

Lawyers for the families of children and adults killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School disclosed Monday that child pornography was found in electronic files sent to them by conspiracy theorist Infowars host Alex Jones.

The pornography was found in email metadata files Jones' attorneys turned over to the families' lawyers as part of the discovery process of a defamation lawsuit, which was filed in a Connecticut court last year in response to discussions on Jones' show about the school shooting being a hoax....


 http://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-infowars-host-alex-jones-202021411.html   (http://www.yahoo.com/news/lawyers-infowars-host-alex-jones-202021411.html)

Fathertime!


That is a lie. He was ordered by court to send his emails in for the discovery process. There was over 6 million emails sent in. In them were 15 unopened emails that had been sent to him that contained child porn. This was a deliberate attempt to smear him.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 18, 2019, 10:48:17 PM
Dear Maxx

You've got this ass about face ..

I adore a good debate with someone with an opposing viewpoint and totally agree that they have a right to their opinion - but when they start posting shameless lies to gain support - twaddle that harms lives, upsets and infuences other to do daft things - it's time to put them on the naughty step

We are free to debate the 'poor soul's' plight
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Boethius on June 18, 2019, 10:55:11 PM
So where do you draw the line?  Should NAMBLA be free to advocate for grown men to have sexual relationships with prepubescent boys?  Should racists be allowed to hold rallies advocating for violence against the "other", whoever that is?

I think the internet has opened up all sort of pernicious things that don't deserve an audience, primarily because you can literally find a group online for anything you believe in.  Think vaccines cause autism, notwithstanding no credible scientific research supporting that view?  You will find advocates online who support that whacky view.  Do you believe the earth is flat?  Or that the moon doesn't exist? You can find online communities that support that view.

Some of the above are obviously relatively harmless.  But others are not.  The point is, though, that now, anything and everything can find supporters online, and education and reason often are irrelevant.

Imagine how hurtful it was to the Sandy Hook parents to use their personal tragedies for ratings and whacky conspiracy theories, suggesting their children didn't die.  How would you feel if someone suggested your tragedy and pain didn't occur?  IMHO, that is victimizing those parents yet again.

This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 18, 2019, 10:58:13 PM
Dear Maxx

You've got this ass about face ..

I adore a good debate with someone with an opposing viewpoint and totally agree that they have a right to their opinion - but when they start posting shameless lies to gain support - twaddle that harms lives, upsets and infuences other to do daft things - it's time to put them on the naughty step

We are free to debate the 'poor soul's' plight


Nope
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 18, 2019, 11:08:07 PM
So where do you draw the line?  Should NAMBLA be free to advocate for grown men to have sexual relationships with prepubescent boys?  Should racists be allowed to hold rallies advocating for violence against the "other", whoever that is?

I think the internet has opened up all sort of pernicious things that don't deserve an audience, primarily because you can literally find a group online for anything you believe in.  Think vaccines cause autism, notwithstanding no credible scientific research supporting that view?  You will find advocates online who support that whacky view.  Do you believe the earth is flat?  Or that the moon doesn't exist? You can find online communities that support that view.

Some of the above are obviously relatively harmless.  But others are not.  The point is, though, that now, anything and everything can find supporters online, and education and reason often are irrelevant.

Imagine how hurtful it was to the Sandy Hook parents to use their personal tragedies for ratings and whacky conspiracy theories, suggesting their children didn't die.  How would you feel if someone suggested your tragedy and pain didn't occur?  IMHO, that is victimizing those parents yet again.

This post was composed without the aid of google.


Do you think members of NAMBA would vote Right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZliG1YBROE


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQ0if9bH4Y0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Pkieco3u0Y


http://www.kuow.org/stories/libraries-drag-queen-story-hour


OK for the Left to push 'Drag Queen Story Hour' at a public library and have little children sit on laps of bearded drag queens to promote LBGQTXYZ
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 18, 2019, 11:13:14 PM
IF, I'm a 'leftie' - you must be right of Attilla the Hun ..  Plenty of right of centre folks abhire 'Brexit' and held no fear over migrants coming from the EU - given it had a postitive effect on our economy, overall ..

Naturally, if you canot understand your Alex Jones is a a wack job and HAS incited violence ..  there's nothing more to debate ..

 'Free Speech' - YES  ..promoting polarisation, NO

'Our' Alex Jones is much more appealing - she hosts an early evening show on BB! weekdays - but is on maternity leave at the mo
(http://www.hellomagazine.com/imagenes/healthandbeauty/mother-and-baby/2019061274124/alex-jones-baby-date-chris-evans-wife-natasha/0-360-877/alex-jones-and-baby-kit-z.jpg)


Ever notice how conservative women are more beautiful than their liberal counterparts?
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 18, 2019, 11:17:41 PM
Maxx

I have no idea of our Alex Jones' politics ... How do you ? ;)
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 18, 2019, 11:30:53 PM
Maxx

I have no idea of our Alex Jones' politics ... How do you ? ;)


WOW! Your refusal to look at the other side goes to that depth??? Unbelievable! Someone told you she was equivalent to Alex Jones and you accepted it and up went the blinders? Amazing!


So what is the latest about your ETA to Georgia?
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2019, 12:49:40 AM

WOW! Your refusal to look at the other side goes to that depth??? Unbelievable! Someone told you she was equivalent to Alex Jones and you accepted it and up went the blinders? Amazing!


So what is the latest about your ETA to Georgia?

Maxx,

'our' Alex Jones co presents a weekly,  show..She does not try to make a 'name' for herself posting stuff that, rightly, ends her up in Court..

There is no latest.. I cannot make a plan until a certain Russian gent hands SC a revised gadget (

It is promised for this weekend.

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 19, 2019, 01:29:30 AM
Maxx,

'our' Alex Jones co presents a weekly,  show..She dies not try to make a 'name' for herself posting stuff that, rightly, ends her up in Court..



Winding up in court for "posting stuff" is how the Left is trying to stifle the speech of the Right. What is wrong with making a name for yourself? What is wrong with "formatting hate" if the hate is for evil things? Evil things like infanticide. Killing a child after it is born alive? The Democrat Governor of Virginia says it is OK as long as the baby is kept comfortable until the doctor after consultation with the mother kills it. We are living in a crazy, crazy world! Alex Jones has the courage to expose it.


Did you know that Bill Clinton's name is on billionaire Jeffrey Epstein's private jet's flight log, the Lolita Express? Jeffrey Epstein is a convicted Paedophile! He had his own private island in a Caribbean where his shenanigans went on with 12 year old girls. And Bill flew with him to this island. 


"Drag Queen Story Time" for little children is going on all over America. Jones exposes this stuff that others fear too. That is why they are trying to shut him up.


A few years ago I watched the Alex Jones show when Matt Drudge of the DRUDGE REPORT paid Alex an unexpected visit. Drudge was there to tell Alex that he needed to get out of the "media ghetto" of FB, Youtube, Twitter et cetera and establish his own platform. Matt Drudge said that he got tipped off by a Supreme Court Justice that banning him was in the works. I seen this. So when Alex got banned, I knew it was coming!
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 19, 2019, 01:38:02 AM
2015, time flies!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yY-IKDRIReQ
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2019, 01:46:07 AM

Winding up in court for "posting stuff" is how the Left is trying to stifle the speech of the Right.

Maxx, your President has over-seen  a right of centre Supreme Court and there are some REALLY scary laws being passed re abortion rights in extreme cases of rape, etc.,

Your nation voted' - by minus 3 million votes - to 'elect' a right of centre President and you are 'complaining' of some sort of 'campaign'.. ? :cluebat:


Jones is a wack-job - period
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2019, 01:48:35 AM




Did you know that Bill Clinton's name is on billionaire Jeffrey Epstein's private jet's flight log, the Lolita Express? Jeffrey Epstein is a convicted Paedophile! He had his own private island in a Caribbean where his shenanigans went on with 12 year old girls. And Bill flew with him to this island. 

Clinton did have sex with that woman and has done some really stupid things..

You guys elected him ( and he actually got more votes than the other guys )
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 19, 2019, 02:34:42 AM



Matt Drudge starts talking at the 6:00 minute mark. At the 17:00 minute mark Matt Drudge says he had a Supreme Court Justice tell him "It is over for you". That the Drudge Report would be taken down on copyright violation. Even using just the headlines to links to stories was enough for legal action to be taken. At the 19:00 Drudge tells Jones why he came to see Alex. "The media is trying to put us to sleep. You are not letting them Alex."
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 19, 2019, 02:47:03 AM

Jones is a wack-job - period


Name calling doesn't help your argument. Neither does calling people names that post here. It makes me wonder if you are trying to formate hate? Nah... I don't believe that. In many ways you are like Jones. You both have a flamboyant personalities.


Yesterday at the gym Alex asked me when he was going to see you again. Perhaps when you come we can arrange a party at Joggo's place? 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 19, 2019, 04:01:11 AM
Hi Maxx

Now, I AM worried about your judgement))..

I am male and outgoing....I think any other comparisons are tenuous..

I have not got any criminal / civil convictions and am not banned from FB, YT, et al.


The 'name calling' is based out what your AJ has said and done.. demonstrable lunacy..


Your friend Alex is a great guy and I even missed being with SC on her birthday..as I am not free to travel / make plans for another week.

My Mum duties are being taken up by 'sis




Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Boethius on June 19, 2019, 11:52:42 AM

Do you think members of NAMBA would vote Right?

Your photos are of drag queens.  Typically, they aren't looking for underaged boys.

As for the question, two words - Dennis Hastert. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 20, 2019, 01:00:59 AM
Your photos are of drag queens.  Typically, they aren't looking for underaged boys.

As for the question, two words - Dennis Hastert. 

This post was composed without the aid of google.


Hastert was a hypocrite.


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48096538241_af82059462.jpg)


Little boy twerking at a Gay Pride Parade


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48096537661_0047b6bb4f.jpg)


Dances in Gay strip clubs and has grown men put dollar bills in his G-string.


BTW Boe, those were videos and not photos I posted before. I think you have no idea how degenerated your side has become.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 01:28:54 AM
Or how 'stiff' and pompous some folk are..?;)

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 20, 2019, 02:06:42 AM
Or how 'stiff' and pompous some folk are..? ;)


For some things it is OK to be stiff, pompous, format hate and hate. Things like sexualizing children into the LBQGT way of life.


(http://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48096755626_d72fe022e0.jpg)


This post was composed with the aid of InfoWars
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 02:30:56 AM
Probably wasn't even a 'gay' parade .. given the 'info' from 'info'wars..


Tell me, Maxx... do you think that SC should not go topless on a beach, too ? ;)
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 20, 2019, 03:28:36 AM
Probably wasn't even a 'gay' parade .. given the 'info' from 'info'wars..


Tell me, Maxx... do you think that SC should not go topless on a beach, too ? ;)


I'd advise SC to wear more clothes and be prepared to be hit on by many, many Georgian men. I'd also advise her to wear a wedding ring. That was what AW are advised to do who taught English here with the LTG program. Topless? I suppose she could. I'm not sure if the police would arrest her for indecent exposure if she was somewhat discreet about it. The place where I advise for sun bathing and splashing in the Sea is by an Army outpost. The water is the clearest there. I took you over there. She'd give the soldier on watch something to watch (probably with binoculars).
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 05:28:53 AM

I'd advise SC to wear more clothes and be prepared to be hit on by many, many Georgian men. I'd also advise her to wear a wedding ring. That was what AW are advised to do who taught English here with the LTG program. Topless? I suppose she could. I'm not sure if the police would arrest her for indecent exposure if she was somewhat discreet about it. The place where I advise for sun bathing and splashing in the Sea is by an Army outpost. The water is the clearest there. I took you over there. She'd give the soldier on watch something to watch (probably with binoculars).



Hi Maxx

I think you know my question was 'generalised' .. as in many American beaches goping topless is frowned apon ;)

SC knows how to handle Georgian / Turkish guys !

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 20, 2019, 07:41:40 AM

SC knows how to handle Georgian / Turkish guys !


My guess she knows how to handle stares as well.  :D 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 08:15:18 AM
Attilla the Hun was a lefty all dictators are. Control by the State is a Lefty ideal.
Liberty, freedom and protection FROM the State is a Righty ideal.

Maybe you don't know what characterizes lefties and righties. 


Really, who WAS your teacher of history,  Beel ?  They must join your Mathematics teacher in shame..

So, according to the Beel School of revisionist History   ( or BS for short !) Hilter was a 'leftie' because he was a 'National Socialist ' ? ;)   What about Mussolini, Franco et al ...  ? Why were socialists fighting them ?



Good lord, only you can bring up Brexit when discussing imaginary plots between
the USA, Japan and Iran, neither being a party to your beloved Brexit.

'Imaginary plots ?' Do tell us who is 'imaginating' what ?

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 08:19:34 AM
Yes, definitely a Lefty. Using words like polarization as an excuse to shut
down free speech.

The very definition of free speech is to be able to speak freely about stuff
and not only stuff that lefties agree with. Lefty Dogma only works in a
vacuum where alternative thoughts and ideas aren't allowed. That's
why lefties nearly always lose debates. Their ideas suck.

1/ I care not what people call me - but at least they could listen to a fact or two, before being foolish ..

2/ Freedom to post bollox like 'Holocasut denial ' - you think THAT is OK, too ?

'Leftes' - sadly - often win debates - by gaining power in free and fair elections ..


Put on your listening head, 'Beel' .. You ain't thinking straight

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2019, 08:23:00 AM
Your photos are of drag queens.  Typically, they aren't looking for underaged boys.

Yet, 100% of men who like underaged boys are homosexuals.


As for the question, two words - Dennis Hastert. 

Jeffrey Epstein

You found ONE right wing pedo what has that got to do with his question? 


Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2019, 08:30:15 AM
1/ I care not what people call me - but at least they could listen to a fact or two, before being foolish ..

You are a lefty, your opinions are lefty. Just because you know people who are
more lefty doesn't mean your right of center or even center.



2/ Freedom to post bollox like 'Holocasut denial ' - you think THAT is OK, too ?

Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.


'Leftes' - sadly - often win debates - by gaining power in free and fair elections ..

Put on your listening head, 'Beel' .. You ain't thinking straight

There are all sorts of reasons that lefties win elections, winning debates is
rarely one of them.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 08:40:10 AM
You are a lefty, your opinions are lefty. Just because you know people who are
more lefty doesn't mean your right of center or even center.

As I said - you can 'label / call me daft 'names', as you please- but I support entrepreneurship- that's hardly 'leftie'  :popcorn:

Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.

'Ri-ight'... So, do tell us why wackos like Alex Jones are having their ability post post lies removed ?  Really - bearing in mind your point ? :popcorn:

There are all sorts of reasons that lefties win elections, winning debates is
rarely one of them.

Wow, there was me thinking that they were trusted to govern more by the electorate - hence winning ..So do tell how Tony Blair's new Labour actually came to power ?


Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 20, 2019, 02:11:01 PM
WE INTERRUPT THE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION TO RETURN TO THE THREAD TITLE


Yesterday Iran downed an American military drone suveilling the Straits of Hormuz.    These are not ordinary drones.  It was the size of a commercial jet and cost $153 million. 

Iran claims the drone invaded its airspace.  The US military says it was over international waters.  A response is forthcoming. 

My question:  What do you believe the US military should do in response?  Will do?


My guess:  The US will require Iran to pay for the drone and to curtail its aggressiveness.  When we downed one of Iran's commercial airplanes 30 years ago, we paid Iran in an international court for the airplane and added some compensation for the lives of Iranian citizens killed. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 20, 2019, 04:08:04 PM
So where do you draw the line?  Should NAMBLA be free to advocate for grown men to have sexual relationships with prepubescent boys?  Should racists be allowed to hold rallies advocating for violence against the "other", whoever that is?

This post was composed without the aid of google.

What do you think NAMBLA advocates? What is the purpose of their organization?
You can use Google to find out. Do I have to listen to them? No, I don't.

The ACLU came to Nambla's defense.

ACLU To Represent NAMBLA
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20000831/aponline171914_000.htm
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 20, 2019, 08:36:43 PM
WE INTERRUPT THE OFF-TOPIC DISCUSSION TO RETURN TO THE THREAD TITLE


Yesterday Iran downed an American military drone suveilling the Straits of Hormuz.    These are not ordinary drones.  It was the size of a commercial jet and cost $153 million. 

Iran claims the drone invaded its airspace.  The US military says it was over international waters.  A response is forthcoming. 

My question:  What do you believe the US military should do in response?  Will do?


Forgive me everyone for saying something on topic. If on topic material offends you, please stop reading now.

If we crossed into Iran's airspace, Trump should do nothing. If we were in international airspace, Trump should send a few cruise missiles into Iran as punishment. In the last month, 6 tankers were sabotaged, multiple drones were shot at, Saudi Arabia was shot at with missiles. This will not end by continuing to do nothing. This should not escalate to war but something should be done.

My guess:  The US will require Iran to pay for the drone and to curtail its aggressiveness.  When we downed one of Iran's commercial airplanes 30 years ago, we paid Iran in an international court for the airplane and added some compensation for the lives of Iranian citizens killed.

Iran will not pay even if they are in the wrong. They have their story and their sticking to it. If they reverse themselves and admit they are shooting and blowing up things beyond their boundaries at sea, then it shows everybody they lied and paying the country they call Satan, is a sign of weakness and God may deny them 72 virgins for sinning.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 20, 2019, 08:54:42 PM
Yes, definitely a Lefty. Using words like polarization as an excuse to shut
down free speech.

The very definition of free speech is to be able to speak freely about stuff
and not only stuff that lefties agree with. Lefty Dogma only works in a
vacuum where alternative thoughts and ideas aren't allowed. That's
why lefties nearly always lose debates. Their ideas suck.

That's because commies were banned during the cold war. After the cold
war they became allowed again so the lefties want to ban conservative
speech. ESPECIALLY if they are effective speakers


So on that subject you are to the right of commies. Almost everybody is to the
right of commies. Hitler was to the right of commies but to the left of you.

I didn't bring up Alex Jones, Maxx did.

Goalpost moved, Moby swerve. You talked about winning debates causing lefties
to win elections, now you are talking about trustworthiness winning elections.
Lefties rarely win debates.

I would have to think hard about something that I care less about.

Hmmmmm.................

I care less about whether the Pope wears boxers or briefs, but I don't
care about either enough to debate with you about them.



Looks like Mobers drove Bill nuts with his posts.  Not too hard to do obviously. 

Reality is bill is a bit of a weirdo when it comes to labeling, and 'lefties'.    Rather than address a point, it is much easier for bill to just commence with the labels and pretend it is relevant. Demonizing people that are thinking of solutions that don't support the status quo or current power structure,  may not be considered 'right wing' thinking, but in many cases it is how problems get solved. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 20, 2019, 09:04:22 PM
.

If we crossed into Iran's airspace, Trump should do nothing. If we were in international airspace, Trump should send a few cruise missiles into Iran as punishment. In the last month, 6 tankers were sabotaged, multiple drones were shot at, Saudi Arabia was shot at with missiles. This will not end by continuing to do nothing. This should not escalate to war but something should be done. 
I'm convinced our escalation is the problem with the whole situation.  We (The US) is upset with Iran since we are out of the loop regarding their oil profits, and their use of the Euro in lieu of the dollar isn't appreciated either, as it encouraging other nations to do the same.   All our sanctions and efforts would go away if Iran would fall in line with what the US wants.  Saudi Arabia can get away with murder in our eyes, just look at how Pompeo bent over backwards to defend them. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 20, 2019, 09:17:22 PM
Iran will not pay even if they are in the wrong. They have their story and their sticking to it. If they reverse themselves and admit they are shooting and blowing up things beyond their boundaries at sea, then it shows everybody they lied and paying the country they call Satan, is a sign of weakness and God may deny them 72 virgins for sinning.

This may seem like a matter of semantics but make a clear distinction in who carried out the decision to down the US drone. IRGC is a secular power in Iran. It doesn’t answer to Iran’s politician, president or otherwise. Centcom was very clear in their report which they repeated multiple times. They reported it was fired by the IRGC.

Trump backed off from his initial rhetorics likely because he got briefed on who fired the missile. Saying only it was a mistake by a loose and stupid general. My suspicion he already received a Farsi-accented phone call.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 20, 2019, 09:23:02 PM


Quote from: 2tallbill on Today at 09:30:15 AM (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=23741.msg512447#msg512447)Freedom of speech is exactly that, freedom to speak or to write. You don't have
that where you are, but in the USA we do. People can write books about denying
the Holocaust in the USA, but they can't make people read it. People in the USA
can write books about terrible things and it's protected by our first Amendment.

'Ri-ight'... So, do tell us why wackos like Alex Jones are having their ability post post lies removed ?  Really - bearing in mind your point ? :popcorn:



That is the issue, for me anyways. Alex Jones is having his free speech shut down by the media giants who support political Leftists.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 20, 2019, 09:36:26 PM
Saudi Arabia can get away with murder in our eyes, just look at how Pompeo bent over backwards to defend them. 


I'm sure ever nation's intelligence agency murdered somebody at one time or another. Saudi Arabia got caught. Can't sanction every nation for flaws. We need Saudi Arabia to keep the peace in the Middle East, kill terrorists, and counter Iranian influence.

This may seem like a matter of semantics but make a clear distinction in who carried out the decision to down the US drone. IRGC is a secular power in Iran. It doesn’t answer to Iran’s politician, president or otherwise. Centcom was very clear in their report which they repeated multiple times. They reported it was fired by the IRGC.


Everybody, including the Iranian president, answers to a few religious fanatics. If one group is truly independent of the others, Trump should  punish the IRGC and the other groups should be left alone.

Trump backed off from his initial rhetorics likely because he got briefed on who fired the missile. Saying only it was a mistake by a loose and stupid general. My suspicion he already received a Farsi-accented phone call.

Pushing buttons and launching off missiles shouldn't be a mistake. A General is supposed to be smart enough not to make a mistake that can escalate his nation into a conflict with a major power. All of what is happening now is done on purpose. Iran stated they will close off the Strait of Hormuz last month. They stated they will defend their airspace so their officers are told to fire on intruders. They have radar and know how far flying objects are off their coast. They've shot at numerous drones of ours already. This drone just happened to be the biggest prize. 220 million taxpayer dollars down the drink. If Trump does conclude Iran made a mistake and does nothing, you can bet everything you own that Iran will make more mistakes. Mistakes will stop when mistakes cost Iran more than the mistakes are worth.

http://www.wired.com/story/iran-global-hawk-drone-surveillance/
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 20, 2019, 11:57:20 PM
Well, I woke up to shocking news..

1/ 'Beel''s' howler re Fascists ( 'lefties to him' ) was put down while I slept ... thereby rendering any definition of left / right political views from him as "a very personal viewpoint to which he is entitled" ;)


2/ GQB  thinks the Iranians have 'apologised' for the tanker incidents ( but then shot down a drone, for good measure)  ..

Yup - the world could be going mad - and 'Trampu' ruining a Nuke deal 'O'Bama' has done with Iran - supported by the EU, RU, China et al - kicking off oil price hikes - isn't a suprise at all .....

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 21, 2019, 06:36:33 AM
I'm sure ever nation's intelligence agency murdered somebody at one time or another. Saudi Arabia got caught. Can't sanction every nation for flaws. We need Saudi Arabia to keep the peace in the Middle East, kill terrorists, and counter Iranian influence.

Iran simply doesn't want to be forced into the US system of giving us a portion of their profits.  As is normally the case the US doesn't care about the "Iranian people", just the money.    Once these obvious facts are accepted, everything else makes sense.   

 The US economic war on Iran is a war of aggression in an effort to force Iran to bargain with us.  They haven't folded, nor does it appear they will.   Since our economic war is failing, we are potentially helping to create incidents to justify a military war, or the threat of military war.   

The US is 1000's of miles away from home, aggressively trying to stage scenes right on Iran's doorstep.  It is very clear who is being aggressive.  The leading sponsor of terrorism in the world, the USA.   Like many nations recently Iran is holding it's ground.  Trump's policy of aggression has failed in Venezuela, North Korea, and now Iran.  Many of our traditional allies aren't quite backing us like they used to, so I"m curious what is going to happen next. Generally Trump has taken the US right up to the point where it appears we are going to attack, and then found a face saving reason not to.  Attacking Iran and starting a war would be an error and be a ruinous lose/lose.

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 21, 2019, 06:44:53 AM
2/ GQB  thinks the Iranians have 'apologised' for the tanker incidents ( but then shot down a drone, for good measure)  ..

Hhhhmmm....chalk that up to...

http://youtu.be/ZRzOJJ74-IA
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 21, 2019, 07:30:16 AM

Yup - the world could be going mad   


So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint.   Even more remarkable is his transparency.    The hawks are not happy.

Evidently his plan is to get Iran to the negotiating table. 



Quote
and 'Trampu' ruining a Nuke deal 'O'Bama' has done with Iran - supported by the EU, RU, China et al -   


The Nuke deal was woefully weak.    It still allowed Iran to develop a nuke in 15? years.  Meanwhile Iran is using its oil revenues (boosted initially by the $1.7 billion cash payment) to accomplish the following:


    1.   Developing long range missiles to deliver nukes

    2.   Supporting armed conflicts in several parts of the Middle East (proxy wars).

    3.   Funding a clandestine nuke program (inspections allowed by the Obama nuke deal were limited) 

    4.   Building a Shia terrorist network to be released on call around the globe.
   



Quote
kicking off oil price hikes - isn't a suprise at all .....


Wrong!  The world is awash with oil supplies mostly because of US's fracking operations.    VZ, Libya, Iran produce less and less, yet price of oil is in a long downward trend.   The decline in oil price will stabilize as it approaches the cost of production.  It could zoom if the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 21, 2019, 08:00:50 AM

So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint.   

 :cluebat:

It's down TO him that we have this inevitabe and predicted mess



The Nuke deal was woefully weak.    It still allowed Iran to develop a nuke in 15? years.  Meanwhile Iran is using its oil revenues (boosted initially by the $1.7 billion cash payment) to accomplish the following:

Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...

The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better.. the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players

Wrong!  The world is awash with oil supplies mostly because of US's fracking operations.    VZ, Libya, Iran produce less and less, yet price of oil is in a long downward trend.   The decline in oil price will stabilize as it approaches the cost of production.  It could zoom if the Strait of Hormuz is closed.

Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..

They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy ..   This is 101 stuff... the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out ...

Trade Wars cause real wars
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 21, 2019, 08:31:37 AM
:cluebat:

It's down TO him that we have this inevitabe and predicted mess


Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...

The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better.. the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players

Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..

They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy ..   This is 101 stuff... the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out ...

Trade Wars cause real wars


You play checkers while Trump plays five dimensional chess. He will go down in History as the Greatest Man of the 21st Century!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 21, 2019, 08:48:47 AM
...Everybody, including the Iranian president, answers to a few religious fanatics. If one group is truly independent of the others, Trump should  punish the IRGC and the other groups should be left alone....

Actually no, BillyB:

1) IRGC is literally a 'state within a state' as far as Iran is concerned. As a matter of fact, IRGC's military body is completely separate from Iran's military - Artesh..
2) IRGC, like Iran's political body/state answers only to a 'supreme leader'. Although most believe IRGC mostly acts on its own accord in its intent to protect Iran domestically and internationally.

Quote
... If Trump does conclude Iran made a mistake and does nothing, you can bet everything you own that Iran will make more mistakes. Mistakes will stop when mistakes cost Iran more than the mistakes are worth....

There already was a counter strike primed in 3 different locations. When Trump asked and briefed 10 minutes prior to the attack what the estimated casualty will be (150), Trump backed off and cancelled the strike. He didn't believe 150 deaths is equivalent to the lone drone.

A lot of great information here, BillyB: http://www.centcom.mil/
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 21, 2019, 09:01:35 AM

You play checkers while Trump plays five dimensional chess. He will go down in History as the Greatest Man of the 21st Century!  :clapping: :clapping: :clapping: :clapping:

 :shock: :ROFL: :trainwreck:
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: mhr7 on June 21, 2019, 10:17:44 AM

That is the issue, for me anyways. Alex Jones is having his free speech shut down by the media giants who support political Leftists.

Quote
The results of the study are consistent with the results of a similar exercise undertaken by Media Matters last year. That study, which measured engagement on the same set of pages over the previous six months, found that right-leaning pages had a nearly identical average rate of interactions with left-leaning pages. It also found that the right-leaning pages it studied earned 51 percent more total interactions than left-leaning pages.

http://www.theverge.com/interface/2019/4/11/18305407/social-network-conservative-bias-twitter-facebook-ted-cruz

Facebook is only censoring those on the fringe. Alex Jones is a complete whacko who denied that Sandy Hook ever took place. Why listen to this man? Why support him? He's scum. This has nothing to do with Leftist media giants.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Boethius on June 21, 2019, 11:56:06 AM

Hastert was a hypocrite.


Irrelevant.  He was a Republican who could have supported NAMBLA, which was your question.
Quote
BTW Boe, those were videos and not photos I posted before. I think you have no idea how degenerated your side has become.


I don't have a "side".  I am far more conservative in my personal life than any poster on this forum.  I am fiscally conservative (by Canadian standards), but socially liberal (though middle of the road by Canadian standards).
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 21, 2019, 01:32:56 PM


Only 'Trampu' and his hawks thought so ...

The RoW don't agree and understand Iran - which you should - better..

I am not sure of who is RoW.  Does RoW stand for the "realm of weenies?"   :ROFL: 

I guess these are Europeans who wanted to trade with Iran and Obama the Great Appeaser, conceding to demands just to get a signed deal. 


   
Quote
the idea was to reward Iran comiong vack into the fold and hoping the progressive majority will undermine the Iranian hawisk conservatives ..'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players


Noble idea, reminds me of Chamberlain's   "peace for our time."  Iran had its chance to come back "into the fold."    It did not. 

BTW, when was Iran ever in the fold?  Under the Shah, whom the populace despised?

 

Quote
Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..

Unstable?  Where ever you obtain your information, stop!

I assert oil prices were much more unstable before Trump. Let's do a litmus test.   

       - In June 2008 oil was $160/bbl, soon dropping in response to the Great Recession.
       - Under Obama prices started at $50 when he took office, rising to $130 in April 2011, and dropping briefly to $35 as Iran doubled its oil exports after the Obama nuclear deal and fracking increased. 
       -  Under Trump prices have varied in a narrow range, $50-65 even though Iran and VZ reduced production. 

Dr. Mobs, do you still consider this unstable!!!!



Quote
They fell due to falling demand expected rom China ..They've gone up because of the inveitable fal out of pressure on Iran's economy ..   This is 101 stuff...

What?  The production increases in North America (Canada and Mexico are big participants) have kept downward pressure on oil prices. 



Quote
....the USA did this to Japan in the thirties and look how THAT worked out .



Japan was such a saint in the decades before WW II., expanding aggressively in the Pacific, particularly into China.   Some remarkable similarities between 1930s Japan and today's Iran. 

Anyway, look where Japan is today after ridding itself of its militaristic and expansionist mentality. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: SANDRO43 on June 21, 2019, 04:07:56 PM
Please do not bomb Iran :(, the world's major producer (47%) of pistachio ;D.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 21, 2019, 05:11:53 PM
So far, Trump has shown remarkable restraint.   Even more remarkable is his transparency.    The hawks are not happy.

Evidently his plan is to get Iran to the negotiating table. 


Trump won't get any deal better than Obama's. Obama got them to agree to delay their nuke program and in return, they got money and were allowed to advance their ballistic missile system to deliver the nukes. Nukes aren't any good without a delivery system so making a deal that lifts sanction, gives them money, and allows their ballistic missile program to catch up to their nuke program is a win win for them.

Trump won't give them any nuclear related programs that they can advance so Iran won't deal. If Iran continues to make "mistakes" in the Strait of Hormuz, and Trump decides to launch an assault, then Trump should target their nuke facilities. Set them back 10+ years and making a deal with them isn't a priority anymore.

Trump criticized previous Presidents for not stopping N Korea's and Iran's nuke programs. His current policies will make him no better than the Presidents he criticized because his policies won't work.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 21, 2019, 08:22:40 PM

Noble idea, reminds me of Chamberlain's   "peace for our time."  Iran had its chance to come back "into the fold."    It did not. 
Everything that isn't bombing of 'disobedient' nations reminds you of your tired tired old quote from Chamberlain.


Reality is Iran stood up to our ridiculous interference and attempt to bully on their doorstep.   Trump had to respect that they did.  Had trump tried to bomb them, it would have made very clear to the world Iran's need for nuclear protection. 

So far Iran is also holding firm in not being willing to even to talk to the US/Trump until sanctions are terminated, so they aren't relenting an inch.  Iran has successfully forced trump into a box now.  No options are very good, which is what happens when a nation like the US over plays their hand as we have done.

Fathertime!   

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 21, 2019, 08:24:16 PM
Trump won't get any deal better than Obama's. 
 
And why should he ?   Iran is under no obligation to make what they feel is a good deal for the US.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 21, 2019, 08:28:47 PM

Trump criticized previous Presidents for not stopping N Korea's and Iran's nuke programs. His current policies will make him no better than the Presidents he criticized because his policies won't work.
...but it is humorous to see some of the 'patriot' hypocrites defend Trump when he clearly stands down, whereas if it were Obama it would have been an angry excoriation of how big a wimp he was!   

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Maxx2 on June 21, 2019, 09:09:14 PM

Irrelevant.  He was a Republican who could have supported NAMBLA, which was your question.



Hastert would never have been elected if his supporters, his Republican supporters, knew he was a paedophile. You take the exception Hastert, and make it the rule.


Yes, you do have a side.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 21, 2019, 09:13:16 PM
I am not sure of who is RoW.  Does RoW stand for the "realm of weenies?"   :ROFL: 

'Rest of the World '...  :popcorn:

"agreement reached in 2015 between the Islamic Republic of Iran and a group of world powers: the P5+1 (the permanent members of the United Nations Security Council—the United States, the United Kingdom, Russia, France, and China—plus Germany) and the European Union.".. 

30 nations agreed -  including the USA - and 'Trampu' f'd it up ...and here we are ..



I guess these are Europeans who wanted to trade with Iran and Obama the Great Appeaser, conceding to demands just to get a signed deal. 


Not just Europeans, was it ?..


   
Noble idea, reminds me of Chamberlain's   "peace for our time."  Iran had its chance to come back "into the fold."    It did not. 

Once again, you prove VERY naaive, historically ..  Chamberlain bought time ...

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/NevilleChamberlain (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/NevilleChamberlain)

"Though he publicly proclaimed that the move would avert war, he started Britain's programme of rearmament just to be on the safe side. His wisdom and foresight paid off when he was forced to declare war upon Germany in aid of Poland in September 1939… and the public rallied behind him and a war they then understood was inevitable"


BTW, when was Iran ever in the fold?  Under the Shah, whom the populace despised?

We've both been there .. I was there before the Shah fell and after ...  The Conservative rulers - you think THEY are 'popular either ?   The idea was to give Iran a chance to trade and through business - become more open - less hostile

 
Unstable?  Where ever you obtain your information, stop!

I assert oil prices were much more unstable before Trump. Let's do a litmus test.   

       - In June 2008 oil was $160/bbl, soon dropping in response to the Great Recession.
       - Under Obama prices started at $50 when he took office, rising to $130 in April 2011, and dropping briefly to $35 as Iran doubled its oil exports after the Obama nuclear deal and fracking increased. 
       -  Under Trump prices have varied in a narrow range, $50-65 even though Iran and VZ reduced production. 

Dr. Mobs, do you still consider this unstable!!!!

http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/crude-oil/1-year/ (http://www.infomine.com/investment/metal-prices/crude-oil/1-year/)


Hmm.. 1 year under 'Trampu' .. Theprice has varied from $50 - nearly $85  / barrel .. that's a SIXTY-FIVE percent swing - and that's 'stable' to you ?

(http://i.imgur.com/23px47x.png)

What?  The production increases in North America (Canada and Mexico are big participants) have kept downward pressure on oil prices. 

Increased production drives oil prices UP ... China is way DOWN - FAR outweighing the USA / Mexico ...


Japan was such a saint in the decades before WW II., expanding aggressively in the Pacific, particularly into China.   Some remarkable similarities between 1930s Japan and today's Iran. 

..and the USA was competing with Japan for those same resources - the Middle East Oil boom hadn't happened yet ..   The USA sided with China and imposed sanctions of Japan and made war inevitable ..  This is 101 stuff, Gator ...that our fore-fathers were surprised is bizarre, now




Anyway, look where Japan is today after ridding itself of its militaristic and expansionist mentality.

Yup - the developed nation with the highest Public debt to GDP ratio...
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 22, 2019, 06:24:57 AM
..and the USA was competing with Japan for those same resources - the Middle East Oil boom hadn't happened yet ..   The USA sided with China and imposed sanctions of Japan and made war inevitable ..  This is 101 stuff, Gator ...that our fore-fathers were surprised is bizarre, now


America's sanctions led to Japan lashing out and invading China in the early 30's? The League of nations didn't apply sanctions because America and Britain were main trading partners with Japan.

http://www.johndclare.net/EL5.htm

Iran isn't nowhere near as powerful as pre WW2 Japan. Iran doesn't have the ability to conquer most of its neighbors. They will instead spread their influence and support radicals in their neighbors countries.

Gator earlier said a war in Iran is impossible to win. I disagree. Iraq fought Iran for 8 years to a stalemate. A few years later, America's troop rolled all the way to Baghdad in a matter of  days. Afghanistan was supposed to be unwinnable do to them keeping the Soviets out. With supplying a few special operation troops, air support and supporting pro American Afghans, Al Qaeda and the Afghan government was beat. Maintaining stability in a country after a war is a different story. I suspect most Iranians prefer a different government just like the Iraqis so I don't see them resisting much.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 22, 2019, 07:54:46 AM
America's sanctions led to Japan lashing out and invading China in the early 30's? The League of nations didn't apply sanctions because America and Britain were main trading partners with Japan.

http://www.johndclare.net/EL5.htm

Iran isn't nowhere near as powerful as pre WW2 Japan. Iran doesn't have the ability to conquer most of its neighbors. They will instead spread their influence and support radicals in their neighbors countries.

Gator earlier said a war in Iran is impossible to win. I disagree. Iraq fought Iran for 8 years to a stalemate. A few years later, America's troop rolled all the way to Baghdad in a matter of  days. Afghanistan was supposed to be unwinnable do to them keeping the Soviets out. With supplying a few special operation troops, air support and supporting pro American Afghans, Al Qaeda and the Afghan government was beat. Maintaining stability in a country after a war is a different story. I suspect most Iranians prefer a different government just like the Iraqis so I don't see them resisting much.
You are casually discussing the killing of hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions in an unnecessary war.  A war based on nothing more than the US wanted to make more money.       I agree with Trump's decision not to bomb Iran.  I don't think he needed to agonize over it, it should have been a no brainer.   Of course I do agree the US would militarily make Iran submit, assuming other nations don't get involved, but the victory would cause more harm than good.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 22, 2019, 08:56:10 AM
You are casually discussing the killing of hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions in an unnecessary war.


I believe religious fanatics who think God is talking to them and crazy people like Kim Jong UN who has not Parliament or Congress to provide checks and balances on his decisions are capable of launching nuclear missiles killing tens of millions when they get upset. It really isn't a question of if this will happen, just a question of when. It may not happen when we're alive but it will happen because that is what crazy people and religious fanatics are capable of.

I also believe Iran who are supplying weapons to terrorists will supply them nukes eventually. It's better for them if someone else nuke a Western city so they can say they weren't part of it.  Lives are important to you. They are important to me too. Lives will end doing something or nothing. How do we minimize the death toll?
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2019, 09:47:43 AM
Silly BillyB

IF a war kicked off - Iran can rely on Russia to supply - logistically the USA will find it much harder ..comparing Iran v Iraq - pointless

You forgot the mad man in charge of the White House as a factor ...


The US did not want Japan competing for the same resources
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 22, 2019, 10:01:39 AM
I believe religious fanatics who think God is talking to them and crazy people like Kim Jong UN who has not Parliament or Congress to provide checks and balances on his decisions are capable of launching nuclear missiles killing tens of millions when they get upset. It really isn't a question of if this will happen, just a question of when. It may not happen when we're alive but it will happen because that is what crazy people and religious fanatics are capable of.

I also believe Iran who are supplying weapons to terrorists will supply them nukes eventually. It's better for them if someone else nuke a Western city so they can say they weren't part of it.  Lives are important to you. They are important to me too. Lives will end doing something or nothing. How do we minimize the death toll?
I don't think it is a matter of all these leaders being 'madmen'.  Venezuela, Iran, North Korea, and others aren't conforming to what the US wants.  That is the reason the leaders are 'madmen'.  It is the US that is creating the issues, and much of the world appears to recognize that nowadays.    We are seen as the 'madman' with nukes. 

Eventually nations like Iran will get nuclear weapons, because they truly need them.  They can't afford not to have them because the deterrent pretty much takes military action off the table for the US.  North Korea is a perfect example.  Trump huffed and puffed, but reality was in the end he didn't do anything much militarily. 

The best way to avoid casualties and killing in a war is to avoid the war itself.  We (The US) will have to accept that other nations are going to do things the way they want, and not be a part of the US system of dominance.  If we are to remain at the top or near the top it will require hard work, which are current populace hasn't been capable of.  More young/willing workers, like the ones coming from South of our border would help!     :) 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Jamesukjames on June 22, 2019, 10:28:40 AM
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA.  What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 22, 2019, 10:36:44 AM
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA.  What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west

That's because you don't know how much the Shia and the Sunni hate
each other. It's lots and lots and lots.



Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 22, 2019, 10:59:04 AM
That's because you don't know how much the Shia and the Sunni hate
each other. It's lots and lots and lots.
This is what YOU hope.  The US is very much ok with driving the wedge in further between different segments of their religion(s) as long as it helps us make more profits at their expense.  We will gladly try to arm one side or the other while fomenting discord.   Our system of dominance isn't appreciated much by the anyone much any much. Rather than working a little harder, we are more about exploiting others, and it shows. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 22, 2019, 11:20:48 AM
 

'Rest of the World '...  :popcorn:

Why would you defend Iran?  What are Iran's redeeming qualities vs. all Iran continues to do to destabilize the region. 

Contrarian you are.   


   
Quote
Once again, you prove VERY naaive, historically ..  Chamberlain bought time ...


And now you defend Chamberlain.   

Contrarian You Are II.   




Quote
The idea was to give Iran a chance to trade and through business - become more open - less hostile
 

Noble idea.  So please point to examples of Iran's open and peaceful initiatives......"Death to Amerika."

Contrarian You are III.

 


Quote
Hmm.. 1 year under 'Trampu' .. Theprice has varied from $50 - nearly $85  / barrel .. that's a SIXTY-FIVE percent swing - and that's 'stable' to you ?

(http://i.imgur.com/23px47x.png)

Good data source, other than 50-day moving averages are more helpful to analysis.

You say 65% swing.  Let's look closer.  The $85 price was short-lived and  resulted from 1) increased demand (America's economy was growing at a quickened pace due to tax and regulatory reforms)  and 2) reduced supply (VZ, et al).  Note that the price came down as US oil production continued to increase and Europe and China slowed, even managing to decline as Iranian supplies dwindled.   

The manner in which you read your chart without examining underlying factors sdemontrates: 

Contrarian You Are IV


In summary, you relish playing the part of the contrarian.  Admit it. 

   
____________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________

Quote
Increased production drives oil prices UP ... China is way DOWN - FAR outweighing the USA / Mexico ...

You must be misreading me.  My statement was about oil production


Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 22, 2019, 11:30:25 AM
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA.  What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west

It is worse than that.  I am fairly certain Iran has embedded IRGC cells around the globe equipped and ready to hit soft US targets. 

But Bill is correct.  Muslims are diverse and would not unite. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 22, 2019, 12:02:13 PM
USA bombing Iran I can't imagine a better way to unite the Muslim world against the USA.  What the western world is only just realising is there are more jihadists in the east than patriots in the west

Most Arabs would be happy if we bombed the Persians. America is currently defending Arabs and Muslims. we’ve gone to war twice in the last two decades to rescue people who are predominantly Muslim. Most Muslims know America doesn’t hate Muslims.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 22, 2019, 02:13:17 PM
'Trampu' is f'n up all the good works of wiser players


(http://media1.giphy.com/media/3i7zenReaUuI0/giphy.gif)


John Kerry was the dumbest person to be Secretary of State in US History.

Oil prices are unstable - mainly because of ...'Trampu'..


You should do stand up

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 22, 2019, 05:55:57 PM

(http://media1.giphy.com/media/3i7zenReaUuI0/giphy.gif)


John Kerry was the dumbest person to be Secretary of State in US History.

You should do stand up


I realize that you want it to be right wing but it's far left of everything EXCEPT
Socialism and Communism. So it's right wing compared to Communism, but
not compared to our American market economy and Constitutional Republican
form of government. Compared to what we have in the USA Fascism is left wing.
It almost exactly mirrors what they have in Modern China. Tell me how Modern
China is right wing.

Fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer.

"Where socialism sought totalitarian control of a society’s economic processes
through direct state operation of the means of production, fascism sought that
control indirectly, through domination of nominally private owners. Where
socialism nationalized property explicitly, fascism did so implicitly, by requiring
owners to use their property in the “national interest”—that is, as the autocratic
authority conceived it.

(Nevertheless, a few industries were operated by the state.) Where socialism
abolished all market relations outright, fascism left the appearance of market
relations while planning all economic activities. Where socialism abolished
money and prices, fascism controlled the monetary system and set all prices
and wages politically. "


Follow my source by clicking here (http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc/Fascism.html)

If you change the words plunder and extortion with the word Taxes
then it sound pretty lefty to me.


Yet the Chinese have done EXACTLY that, 

They have converted from communism/socialism one step to
the right to fascism. Deng Xiaoping 101


What you are accidentally telling the world through you posts is what a significant segment of trump voters think like.   Most people from abroad are going to think you have a screw or two loose.  Here in the states most people will understand you have been metamorphosized  into an extremist through years of right wing brainwashing.

A significant portion of the right wing in the US is as dangerous as any muslim or terrorist organization.  What they would like to promote will produce much death and destruction.  Of course they will justify it in their own small minds, and make themselves the hero destroying the savages of the world.   

Fathertime!
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: msmob on June 22, 2019, 11:50:55 PM


Why would you defend Iran?  What are Iran's redeeming qualities vs. all Iran continues to do to destabilize the region. 


Why would you even suggesting I'm 'defending' Iran ..?   This seems to be the 'modern way' of trying to divert from the point ..

'We' - as in the other 29 nations ' Trampu' thought he knew better  than appreciate that Iran's 'leadership' does not represet the people and the deal was an attempt to show the people of Iran how they can normalise trade relations

   
And now you defend Chamberlain.   

Did you read the aticle ? Clearly not ... He bought time and prepared the UK people for a war - at a time when they might have sued for peace and allowed Hilter to invade the UK at will ....


Noble idea.  So please point to examples of Iran's open and peaceful initiatives......"Death to Amerika."

Again, you've been there and should know better ..America and esp. Britain ARE mistrusted as 'we' shafted Iran re oil deals - 'we' took the money and put xip back into Iran - paying to ensure the Shah ran the nation and oppressed oposition

I am WELL aware of Iran's hands in Syria, Lebanon and Yemen and the 'nuke deal' was - as I said - a way to allow Iran to IMPROVE it's economy - instead of lashing out at 'us' in other spheres


 

Good data source, other than 50-day moving averages are more helpful to analysis.



You say 65% swing.  Let's look closer.  The $85 price was short-lived and  resulted from 1) increased demand (America's economy was growing at a quickened pace due to tax and regulatory reforms)  and 2) reduced supply (VZ, et al).  Note that the price came down as US oil production continued to increase and Europe and China slowed, even managing to decline as Iranian supplies dwindled.   



In summary, you relish playing the part of the contrarian.  Admit it. 

 

1/ You suggested 'stabilty' - a 65% swing is anything but, over a year - no matter how you try to 'dismiss it'

2/ The peaks and troughs corrspond with events that correlate with the reasons for them ..'Trampu's' policy re Iran and Trade War's brought about most of those swings in your time of 'stability'...


Conclusion


Gator tries to avoid the FACT that 'Trampu' pulling out of the deal is why we are here - '
Thanks' - once again, 'Trampu' for proving "you re a risk to peace" - while suggesting otherwise

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 23, 2019, 08:56:02 AM

Again, you've been there and should know better ..America and esp. Britain ARE mistrusted as 'we' shafted Iran re oil deals - 'we' took the money and put xip back into Iran - paying to ensure the Shah ran the nation and oppressed oposition


That I did know.  The CIA interference was wrong. 

You said Iran's Conservative leaders today are despised.   For sure by the Iranians you knew (let me guess, educated at Cambridge).   With the UN, I traveled well outside of Teheran and met the ordinary people, who revere their religious leaders.   Very religious people: worshipers of shrines, self-flagellation ceremonies, and an underlying culture of martyrdom.   Separate from religion is a culture of accepting and respecting deceit.  Their culture of deceit means this country can never be trusted, and their martyrdom culture means they are dangerous.  A part of the world community....what a sad joke.     



Quote
Gator tries to avoid the FACT that 'Trampu' pulling out of the deal is why we are here - '
Thanks' - once again, 'Trampu' for proving "you re a risk to peace" - while suggesting otherwise


Obama should have negotiated a better deal, one that would have been ratified by Congress. 

Bottom line - the world will be far better if Iran curtailed its proxy wars, its goal to annihilate Israel, its quest for nukes, its IRGC, ...... 

Trump, the rest of the West and Iran's Sunni neighbors are clueless on how to get there because quite possibly it is impossible. 

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2019, 09:47:50 AM
Iran to IMPROVE it's economy - instead of lashing out at 'us' in other spheres


If Iran needs America for an Improved economy, it should not be lashing out at us. If you need a company to give you financially security, you don't bite off the hand that feeds you. If Iran feels they can function without depending on any country, they are free to try to do so.

Separate from religion is a culture of accepting and respecting deceit.  Their culture of deceit means this country can never be trusted, and their martyrdom culture means they are dangerous.  A part of the world community....what a sad joke.     


I believe a lot of what goes on in the culture is due to what type of government is running the show. If we had a mafia controlled government that increased what they took from citizens and increased control, Americans may get desperate and when people are desperate, they steal, cheat or do whatever to survive.

Google "Organization Iranian American communities" and check out the photos. Large crowds of Iranians marching in front of Congress, the White House, and cities across America to promote a freer Iran. I think most people in other countries what we want. Freedom, liberty and a good life for our families but they are scared to speak out.

In other news Trump probably did cyber attack Iran before calling off the bombing. Cyber attack knocked out Iran's missile batteries.

http://www.engadget.com/2019/06/22/us-cyberattack-reportedly-knocked-out-iran-missile-control-syste/?yptr=yahoo
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2019, 10:08:34 AM

Iran shows photos claiming they are of the recovered drone that they claim was shot down in their territory. No US markings or serial numbers on the parts though. What do you guys think? Real or propaganda?

http://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/06/21/iran-makes-show-drone-wreckage-after-trump-calls-retaliatory-strike.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-shows-navy-drone-wreckage-suggests-tehran-got-first-2019-6
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 23, 2019, 12:46:09 PM

I believe a lot of what goes on in the culture is due to what type of government is running the show.


In Iran's case their dishonesty/deceit and martyrdom is probably centuries old.  The martyrdom from the Shia religion and the dishonesty/deceit something fairly common throughout the Middle East.  They respected the best liars the way we respect intelligence. 

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 23, 2019, 12:53:47 PM
In Iran's case their dishonesty/deceit and martyrdom is probably centuries old.  The martyrdom from the Shia religion and the dishonesty/deceit something fairly common throughout the Middle East.  They respected the best liars the way we respect intelligence.

In the case of the USA we respect dishonesty/deceit...just look at trump!   

We may dress it up a bit differently but we are about the last ones that should be trying to chastise another county based on our own behavior.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 23, 2019, 12:55:39 PM

That I did know.  The CIA interference was wrong. 

 

...and now must be dismissed, and all the consequences and ramifications must be ignored.     ::)

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 23, 2019, 12:59:11 PM


Bottom line - the world will be far better if Iran curtailed its proxy wars, its goal to annihilate Israel, its quest for nukes, its IRGC, ...... 
 

Bottom line- the world will be far better off it the USA would stop its proxy wars, it's goal to annihilate Iran, and disassemble it's 1000's of nuclear weapons. 

Fathertime!   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 23, 2019, 01:02:30 PM

In other news Trump probably did cyber attack Iran before calling off the bombing. Cyber attack knocked out Iran's missile batteries.

http://www.engadget.com/2019/06/22/us-cyberattack-reportedly-knocked-out-iran-missile-control-syste/?yptr=yahoo

I know nothing about how this is accomplished and how to prevent it.   I question if revealing we have this capability is good.  Now they know.  If these air defense missiles are Russian, now the Russians will be investigating how to prevent cyber attacks.  Again, I know nothing and it is very possible that the Russians knew of this vulnerability and already had ways to counter cyber attacks. 

These little skirmishes have always been good for testing technologies against the Russian weapons and systems.  The market for Russian tanks collapsed after US military wiped out the Republican Guards in Iraq in 1991.  In one battle the Iraqis lost 186 tanks, we lost 4.  In another, the tank casualties were 160 vs. 0.     
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 23, 2019, 06:13:12 PM
I know nothing about how this is accomplished and how to prevent it.   I question if revealing we have this capability is good.  Now they know.  If these air defense missiles are Russian, now the Russians will be investigating how to prevent cyber attacks.  Again, I know nothing and it is very possible that the Russians knew of this vulnerability and already had ways to counter cyber attacks. 
 

Russians have some of the best, if not the best, hackers in the world. I'm sure they tested their equipment against their own hackers. I'm sure they couldn't figure out how to 100% stop hacks on their equipment but got to manufacture the equipment anyway knowing it's still vulnerable to hacks.

My feelings are Trump is going to continue with cyber warfare on their radars and missile batteries to prevent further downing of aircraft.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Boethius on June 25, 2019, 10:12:01 AM

Hastert would never have been elected if his supporters, his Republican supporters, knew he was a paedophile. You take the exception Hastert, and make it the rule.


And he would have been had he been a Democrat?  I don't think so.

Quote
Yes, you do have a side.
Exactly what side is that?


This post was composed without the aid of google.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 25, 2019, 05:00:57 PM
In the case of the USA we respect dishonesty/deceit...just look at trump!   

We may dress it up a bit differently but we are about the last ones that should be trying to chastise another county based on our own behavior.

LMAO! Fathertime...must sux to be so conflicted, man. You hate Trump as much as you do Obama. Methinks maybe moving to Bangladesh or East Timor would suit you much better, no? New Zealand certainly can use more humans. There are more sheeps in NZ than people, you know.. :P

Speaking of Obama (sheep) and humans ::::hehehe:::::

Jesse Smollet can easily be Obama's, er...let's see..Gender Noncomforming? Maybe Cis Female? Obama's Agender? Could be Two Spirit? Whatever I say...
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: tfcrew on June 25, 2019, 05:36:45 PM
Trump won't get any deal better than Obama's. Obama got them to agree to delay their nuke program and in return, they got money and were allowed to advance their ballistic missile system to deliver the nukes. 
Obama agreed to extortion. Maybe that should read...  Trump Iran won't get any deal better than Obama's.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 25, 2019, 08:09:44 PM
Iran won't get any deal better than Obama's.


That is true. Trump certainly won't give them a better deal. There will be no deal because Iran wants concessions and the ability to advance some of their nuke or ballistic missile program. Trump won't allow any of it so why should they agree to a deal? The Iranians in charge will always eat and live well. Sanctions will only make the average Iranian suffer. We hope the average Iranian will rise against their leaders but apparently there are not enough willing to do so.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Jamesukjames on June 25, 2019, 09:29:01 PM
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime.   USA and UK entered via Kuwait a country with far worse human rights my friends were told to leave women tied to telephone poles with no food or water in the desert as they were because it was the local custom.  Please don't try to sell the macdonalds in every town franchise  no one outside the USA believes in the good old USA.  No one in Iran will rise up as their entire family tree will be executed.  The world is tired of Israel joined with USA propaganda. Trump just makes the USA look like a bunch of idiots the man is an idiot has the USA degenerated so far that an idiot can be their President  ?
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 25, 2019, 10:32:49 PM
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime.   

This is your oipening statement and your position  collapses with it for two reasons.  First, the issue is not Iraq but  Iran, namely its proxy wars, Iranian-supported terrorism, its missile program, and clandestine nukes program.   Second, your statement  is true for just the Sunni minority.  The Kurds, Shia, were discriminated against by the ruling Sunni and  Ba'ath party.  The Kurds certainly are doing better today. 

No one in the US wants a war, so r-e-l-a-x Jimmy.     So far Trump is walking the fine line between being tough and going too far such as to start a shooting war. 

What specific  Trump positions do you dislike?  His orange hair doesn't count.  Did you believe Iran is a model nation in the region?   

   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 02:43:53 AM
LMAO! Fathertime...must sux to be so conflicted, man. You hate Trump as much as you do Obama. 
You are wrong.   I don't hate Obama OR Trump.  I don't agree with either of their policies though, so my position has been consistent.     

The conflict should be with republicans that once chastised Obama for being a 'wimp', and now gleefully accept when trump backs down as he did in Iran.  Obama would have never allowed a US drown to be shot down without consequence as trump has....what a wimp Trump is!    Of course I agree with the trump non-response, because the US drown was probably snooping in Iranian airspace.  Trump has not put the US military on the ground in too many places so that is where I can support him.  He substitutes rhetoric and 'harshly worded tweets'.  which nations can ignore or chuckle over. 

Methinks maybe moving to Bangladesh or East Timor would suit you much better, no? New Zealand certainly can use more humans. There are more sheeps in NZ than people, you know.. :P

Speaking of Obama (sheep) and humans ::::hehehe:::::

Jesse Smollet can easily be Obama's, er...let's see..Gender Noncomforming? Maybe Cis Female? Obama's Agender? Could be Two Spirit? Whatever I say...
I'm not moving anywhere out of good old California for now among mostly humans. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 02:44:54 AM
  Did you believe Iran is a model nation in the region?   

 

Is the USA the model nation in that region?  What are we doing on other nation's doorstep trying to push them around for?

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 02:46:30 AM
.  The world is tired of Israel joined with USA propaganda. Trump just makes the USA look like a bunch of idiots the man is an idiot has the USA degenerated so far that an idiot can be their President  ?
Yes it appears much of the world is fed up with the USA's antics.  Although you can see a segment of the US populace thinks the USA should be sticking it's snout throughout the world, because we know better.

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: 2tallbill on June 26, 2019, 04:41:37 AM
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime.

Irrelevant, the Bush gang invaded Iraq. Trump wasn't president, he was
a private businessman.

Trump is the first elected Republican to say that it was a mistake. If Trump
wanted to lob a few missiles over into Iran he would have done it already
so your original premise that the USA did this to start a war is wrong.

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 06:00:53 AM
Irrelevant, the Bush gang invaded Iraq. Trump wasn't president, he was
a private businessman.
 
Minimizing US blame and pinning it on one guy (Bush) isn't going to work.  The US is responsible and no way to weasel out of it.


Trump is the first elected Republican to say that it was a mistake. If Trump
wanted to lob a few missiles over into Iran he would have done it already
so your original premise that the USA did this to start a war is wrong.


There already is a war, even if it is currently a war without bullets.   We (The US) might do more if we could get away with being more aggressive, without blowback.   There is little international support for what we are doing, and little to no appetite from the public for a shooting war. 

   We should be cutting our military budget drastically in part because we won't be able to use it in the foreseeable future because of the international pressure, and the internal disgust.  Although who knows how we (The US) will stage events in an effort to gain more support for military intervention. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 26, 2019, 09:47:22 AM
You are wrong.

No, I'm not  :P

Quote
... I don't hate Obama OR Trump.  I don't agree with either of their policies though, so my position has been consistent....

Hate = passionately dislike. Same ol', same ol'...

This next statement, if read VERY carefully, actually does show you're a conflicted man...
Quote
..The conflict should be with republicans that once chastised Obama for being a 'wimp', and now gleefully accept when trump backs down as he did in Iran.  Obama would have never allowed a US drown to be shot down without consequence as trump has....what a wimp Trump is!    Of course I agree with the trump non-response, because the US drown was probably snooping in Iranian airspace.  Trump has not put the US military on the ground in too many places so that is where I can support him.  He substitutes rhetoric and 'harshly worded tweets'.  which nations can ignore or chuckle over.

1) It's 'drone'.
2) You call Trump a wimp but you agree with him, which makes you what exactly? Conflicted, maybe?
3) Trump has not put military on the ground in too mane places and you support him, etc..you seem to agree with everything he had done so far based on that statement, yet you hate/passionately dislike his policies...conflicted, maybe?

The dude is simply awesome to me, man. Apparently, to you, too..

Unemployment in the sub--4 percentile. Record.
Lowest black/latino unemployment. Record.
Outstanding GDP reports. Awesome!
Highest female employment. Record.
Abolish NAFTA and replaced with USMCA. Amazing.
Rejected the stupid Paris Agreement (depriving Europe of a cash cow). Awesome!
Deals directly with China's unfair trade practices (that everyone agrees IS unfair). Phenomenal!
Mostly eliminated the ISIS caliphate in less than 2 years! Awesome!
Tabled peace negotiations with NK. Bravo!!!!
Despite a deluge of silly obstructions by the Democrats/MSM, had massively exposed cronyism in DC and the DNC including the corruption with the intelligence agencies. Incredible!!!

I mean, there's so much more to state to show how much THE Trump had accomplished in just less than two years of his presidential term as he move forward to Make America Great Again!!!!
 
Quote
I'm not moving anywhere out of good old California for now among mostly humans. 

Fathertime!

I understand. A whole lot of liberals did too despite saying they'll leave if THE Trump is elected president. Gives us a glimpse how much their words really mean.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 11:17:12 AM
Gozpedy,

this whole thing with Iran IS BECAUSE OF TRUMP...
dont ya’ll get it?

Iran was shipping over 2.5 MB/day of oil, most of which was sold in Asia (with clear intent to INCREASE production)
now it’s around 1.0 MB/day because of Trump’s unilaterally imposed sanctions on Iran because Trump pulled out of the nuclear deal between the USA and Iran

OK? with me so far, or is this too hard and taxing, and ya’ll need a little nap first?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-oil-iran-exports/irans-oil-exports-hit-new-2019-low-so-far-in-april-sources-idUSKCN1RS1I9

that’s a HUGE loss to Iran, HUGE and that’s after they spent couple hundred billion to INCREASE production....

so what’s Iran to do?
just let their country fall into economic ruin because Donald Trump said so
or...
keep moving closer and closer to shutting down the  Strait of Hormuz to oil and LNG shipping
think of the consequences of that boys and girls
at it's widest point the Strait of Hormuz is 21 miles long from Iran
Iran can use long range artillery or anti-ship missiles that it manufacturers
to shut down the straits anytime it wants

they are trying to do it in a way that will have foreign support
from Arab states
from Russia
from China
by "baiting" the USA into making a move that exposes a US Navy Carrier to anti-ship missiles
and Iran will launch 100 missiles at it and sink it
and meanwhile the stock market crashes
and gas is rationed
and the dollar crashes
and Syria cuts all oil and gas pipelines in the North
and Russia cuts off gas and oil to Ukraine

and interest rates start climbing and climbing along with unemployment
and when you calculate the new higher interest rate with a 20 trillion federal debt...
it makes it harder to come up with stimulus money to try and offset rising unemployment
when interest payments add hundreds of billions more in deficits per year than just 5 years ago...


meanwhile America’s allies are backing away, mistrustful of Trump
who they understand is the one who unilaterally without European support withdrew from the treaty and thus is responsible for starting this entire thing...
and this after Obama cemented the treaty and gave us peace....
we ALREADY had peace with Iran when Trump came in...

just one of MANY foreign relations disasters for the USA
which ain't over
and could easily result in a war and depression

making America Great
go "F" yourself

if we can avoid a war over the straits, then we'll be lucky...
but if I were Iran
I would bait the USA into a stupid move that makes them bomb
and show some pictures of little kids killed by American bombs in Iran
and then smack them hard by sinking a carrier
and THEN completely shutting down the straits

if Iran did this, there would be a LOT of cheers
and as long as they could hold out and keep the straits closed
for as long as possible
they will WIN
and AFTER
they can ship as much oil to Asia as they want
AND
DO NUKES!!!

so what will Iran's next move be?

I see an escalation coming...
I think the next ship bombing will be below the waterline...
and the consequences more serious

Iran will try and outflank Saudi Arabia by supporting rebel groups in Yemen and Sudan and using them as proxies
to attack Saudi shipping and pipelines from all directions around Saudi Arabia

in the end, a future US president will have to try and redo the treaty but the USA will have zero credibility after Trump...




Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 26, 2019, 02:49:23 PM
Sadam the average Iraqi was far better off under his regime.   USA and UK entered via Kuwait a country with far worse human rights my friends were told to leave women tied to telephone poles with no food or water in the desert as they were because it was the local custom.  Please don't try to sell the macdonalds in every town franchise  no one outside the USA believes in the good old USA.  No one in Iran will rise up as their entire family tree will be executed.  The world is tired of Israel joined with USA propaganda. Trump just makes the USA look like a bunch of idiots the man is an idiot has the USA degenerated so far that an idiot can be their President  ?

Speaking of a nation of idiots, when will that useless old hag going to croak? All she ever do is throw those pompous parties so she can wear those stupid looking, color-matching gawdy hats courtesy of the hard-earned monies skimmed off the backs of her peons....Heck, her peons murdered, raped, pillaged nations and tens of millions of its inhabitants, courtesy of her 'name'. Now that's what I would call 'idiotic'. Imagine that, at least the Spaniards blamed it all in the name of a religion.

Oh and btw, when she does croak, are you sure a 'king' will take her place? I mean, rumors have it, and likely The Lady D's little big smelly secret is he ain't exactly a 'he', knowhatImean? It shouldn't really matter if good ol' Charles/Charlie/Charl/Char/Cherry/Charlise, or whatever else 'it' wants to go by these days, it's all that same. Shafted is shafted for you regardless, yes?

Since we're calling a 'spade' a 'spade'..best you call 'it' queen Charles. This way, you won't even need to amend your national anthem.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: ML on June 26, 2019, 03:07:12 PM
Iranian Air Defense Site: 'Unknown aircraft you are in Iranian airspace. Identify yourself.'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States aircraft. I know that I am in Iraqi airspace.'

Air Defense Site: 'You are in Iranian airspace. If you do not depart our airspace we will launch interceptor aircraft!'

Aircraft: 'This is a United States F-35 fighter. Send 'em up, I'll wait!'

Air Defense Site: (... total silence)
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 26, 2019, 03:16:33 PM
so what’s Iran to do?

Simple.  Give assurances they will not acquire nukes and missile delivery systems. 


Quote
....keep moving closer and closer to shutting down the  Strait of Hormuz to oil

If you believe the world community would sit still if Iran attempted this drastic move, you are crazier than a shithouse rat.  Maybe you are. 


Quote
they are trying to do it in a way that will have foreign support
from Arab states
from Russia
from China


Arab states?  Nope.   A few Shia dominated states, no Sunni states. 

Russia?  Of course!  The murderous thug at its head has domestic problems that can be fixed only with dramatic increases in oil prices.  Iran and Putin deserve each other.     

China?  Nope.  China the Great Exporter does not want to see the world go into an economic recession,  thereby reducing demand for their exports. 


Quote
by "baiting" the USA into making a move that exposes a US Navy Carrier to anti-ship missiles
and Iran will launch 100 missiles at it and sink it

stock market crashes....gas is rationed....dollar crashes.....interest rates start climbing and climbing along with unemployment
...harder to come up with stimulus money to try and offset rising unemployment   

Krimster, on this RWD forum you have make about 100 dire predictions and NONE (as in zero) of your predictions have occurred.  What a bunch of hot air.  msmob is more grounded than you are.  Its not even close.  How can you keep a hot UW wife when you are such a nervous pansy ass?!?!

Quote
  Trump....is the one who unilaterally without European support withdrew from the treaty and thus is responsible for starting this entire thing...

News for you - it wasn't a treaty.  Congress would never have ratified such a weak agreement. 


Quote
Obama cemented the treaty and gave us peace


Peace?!?!   How many proxy wars does Iran support?   How many people have been killed in those wars?  How many Americans have been maimed if not killed by explosive devices manufactured by Iran and given to terrorists for that purpose?  What does the world really know about Iran's nuclear capabilities (amazing how Iran was able to ramp up their enrichment program so quickly)?  Why does Iran develop long range missiles for delivering nukes?  Why doesn't Iran come to the negotiating table if it has nothing to hide?  Why chant "Death to Amerika"  after signing the agreement and taking billions in cash. 


Quote
but if I were Iran...then smack them hard by sinking a carrier....if Iran did this, there would be a LOT of cheers

Cheers!   Cheers for the deaths of American sailors?  Cheers for starting a world recession?  The only people cheering would be some Iranians and sick, treasonous bastards. Which one are you....sick or treasonous?  I hope your behavior in real life is not this disturbing.       
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: ML on June 26, 2019, 03:32:54 PM

Oh and btw, when she does croak, are you sure a 'king' will take her place? I mean, rumors have it, and likely The Lady D's little big smelly secret is he ain't exactly a 'he',

Husband has always insisted that lights be off during sex.

After some years, the wife cannot contain her curiosity and turns on light.

Wife:  How can you explain your use of that cucumber ?

Husband:  You explain the two children.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 26, 2019, 03:50:18 PM
Husband has always insisted that lights be off during sex.

After some years, the wife cannot contain her curiosity and turns on light.

Wife:  How can you explain your use of that cucumber ?

Husband:  You explain the two children.

Hhhmmm...what a 'pickle'  :o
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 06:08:58 PM
"when you are such a nervous pansy ass?!?! "

whatcha talkin bout Willis?

my strategy is for the USA to have a new nuclear arms race with smaller tactical nukes
have a new submarine ballistic missile fleet
each sub is larger than current Ohio class submarine
but instead of 24 tridents have 128 smaller tactical nuclear missiles with a 10 KT warhead and 1,200 mi range or can use a high explosive warhead
warheads are accurate to 3 meters and there's a bunker buster version
since we no longer have any kind of intermediate missile treaty we should push this approach
have 40 of these boats with a mixture of high explosive and nukes
with precision up to the minute satellite reconnaissance and super encrypted underwater communication
to pinpoint each target in real time to the meter - simultaneously for hundreds of targets
with an invisible fleet hidden beneath the waves
protected by our surface navy

whether Iran or North Korea
we could position this fleet off shore
and send one warning shot per hour
and then fire hundreds of tactical nukes
with a maximum of 3 minute radar warning
that would completely remove any trace
of either country
centuries after they were destroyed
people would wonder if they in reality
ever really existed

but you are right about one thing!!!!
I AM "bat shit" crazy!!!!!
I even sell my droppings on Ebay as a natural fertilizer
for home gardeners who insist on the very best...
with fresh Krimster premium grade guano
you will just feel your vegetables growing faster
I personally guarantee it!





Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: tfcrew on June 26, 2019, 06:41:52 PM
USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran

How did all of this stuff get into ...
Quote
Cultural and Political Events (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?board=9.0)

 Recent events in Ukraine have captured the interest of the world. This section is available to discuss all such matters, especially as they bear on the women from the FSU. (http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?action=.xml;board=9;type=rss)

  ?
   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 26, 2019, 07:51:50 PM


but you are right about one thing!!!!
I AM "bat shit" crazy!!!!!
I even sell my droppings on Ebay as a natural fertilizer
for home gardeners who insist on the very best...
and the smell?
when you catch a whiff of the aroma of some fresh Krimster guano
you will just feel your vegetables growing faster
I guarantee it!

This variant of Krimster's Dissociative Identity Disorder is much better;   I know it well and find pearls to appreciate.   

The Chicken Little variant is disconcerting because I am not sure if you are pulling our leg because some of the bullshit comes across too serious and so wrong that it should never be mentioned - e. g., cheering the sinking of a US aircraft carrier.     
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 26, 2019, 08:15:56 PM
so what’s Iran to do?
just let their country fall into economic ruin because Donald Trump said so
or...
keep moving closer and closer to shutting down the  Strait of Hormuz to oil and LNG shipping


I'm hoping Iran takes some notes from other nations in the world that are doing very well without the problems they are having. If they behave like those other nations, they'll be successful. Some guys are clueless and don't get it. Iran is one of those guys.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 08:23:56 PM


Hate = passionately dislike. Same ol', same ol'...
Wrong.   
I don't hate nor even passionately dislike Trump personally.  I know people who do, but personally I think he is rather humorous.




This next statement, if read VERY carefully, actually does show you're a conflicted man...
1) It's 'drone'.
2) You call Trump a wimp but you agree with him, which makes you what exactly? Conflicted, maybe?
3) Trump has not put military on the ground in too mane places and you support him, etc..you seem to agree with everything he had done so far based on that statement, yet you hate/passionately dislike his policies...conflicted, maybe?

For the most part wrong again.   Me calling trump a 'wimp' is being sarcastic because that is what the conservative patriots would call Obama if he were to have reacted the way trump has to Iran shooting down an expensive drone.   Of course now many patriots are refraining from labeling trump a wimp.   
And yes I do agree with trump's decision not to attack Iran militarily.    I don't see a conflict,  I have the capacity to agree with certain aspects of trump policy and disagree with others, and I feel fine about it.    I find the conflict with supporters that once advocated hard line tactics when Obama was president now are suddenly dovish because trump 'wimped out'. 



 

Unemployment in the sub--4 percentile. Record.
Lowest black/latino unemployment. Record.
Outstanding GDP reports. Awesome!
Highest female employment. Record.
Abolish NAFTA and replaced with USMCA. Amazing.
Rejected the stupid Paris Agreement (depriving Europe of a cash cow). Awesome!
Deals directly with China's unfair trade practices (that everyone agrees IS unfair). Phenomenal!
Mostly eliminated the ISIS caliphate in less than 2 years! Awesome!
Tabled peace negotiations with NK. Bravo!!!!
Despite a deluge of silly obstructions by the Democrats/MSM, had massively exposed cronyism in DC and the DNC including the corruption with the intelligence agencies. Incredible!!!

I mean, there's so much more to state to show how much THE Trump had accomplished in just less than two years of his presidential term as he move forward to Make America Great Again!!!!
 
Trump is continuing and hasn't harmed the recovery that occurred under obama.  Many numbers compare closely.  Many of his policies aren't progressing. 

Fathertime! 



Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 26, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
"bullshit comes across too serious and so wrong that it should never be mentioned"


i have a cousin whose kid is on one of those carriers, so I'm not cheering
but plenty of people in that part of the world will be
losing a carrier to Iran would be a HUGE military blow to the USA
and Iran can easily accomplish this

Khalij Fars is anti-ship missile produced entirely in Iran
300 km range with 650 kg warhead
transported by 18 wheeler
handful of these can sink a carrier
and smaller Noors can be used to strike tankers

they also make the Ra'ad, an enhanced copy of the Chinese silkworm anti-ship missile
360 km range with a 550 kg warhead

they ARE going to escalate
forcing Trump to respond militarily
and sooner or later it'll be with a carrier



Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 08:27:17 PM

Peace?!?!   How many proxy wars does Iran support?   How many people have been killed in those wars? 
Typical hypocritical response.  How many proxy wars does the US support AND start?   How many people have been killed in our wars?   

Fathertime!
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 26, 2019, 08:29:43 PM


Cheers!   Cheers for the deaths of American sailors?  Cheers for starting a world recession?  The only people cheering would be some Iranians and sick, treasonous bastards. Which one are you....sick or treasonous?  I hope your behavior in real life is not this disturbing.     
YOU cheer on the military when other people of other nations are getting killed so what is the difference if other people cheer if US citizens are killed? 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 27, 2019, 06:44:32 AM

i have a cousin whose kid is on one of those carriers, so I'm not cheering
 

Sorry, I misinterpreted your comment.  We do have many Americans who would cheer.   


Quote
losing a carrier to Iran would be a HUGE military blow to the USA
and Iran can easily accomplish this

Khalij Fars is anti-ship missile produced entirely in Iran
300 km range w

they also make the Ra'ad, an enhanced copy of the Chinese silkworm anti-ship missile
360 km range

If so, we need to keep carriers 300-360 km offshore.   Super Hornets have a range of 3,000+ km, so no problem.  Keep in mind the carriers are supplemented by Air Force combat planes stationed at land bases on the southern shores of the Persian Gulf.  Add to this the firepower of missiles from smaller Navy ships, nuclear subs,  and land bases.   

I sleep at night. 3000+ years of civilization did not bring peace; deterrence did. 

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 27, 2019, 06:47:36 AM
Dear American Rednecks and Village Idiots

something for you to consider...
August 1, 1941 the USA blocked oil exports to Japan
Dec 7, 1941, Japan responds...

so go ahead and put an embargo on Iranian oil...
after the whole world, including the US supported the Nuclear treaty
when Iran responds, you'll have another day that lives in "infamy" to mark on your calendar
100% provided to you by your chosen god, Donald Trump...
hope ya'll enjoy the ride!
it's gonna be a long way down folks!


Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 27, 2019, 06:57:17 AM
Trump's unilateral actions have given Iran NO OTHER option than to use a military solution to remove sanctions...
and if it works, Russia will copy it...
so again, this WHOLE THING IS TRUMPISM
Trump's reason for quitting the treaty?
"President Trump said Iran was violating the spirit of the deal, arguing that Iran was not an ally and that it was working against US interests in the Middle East. "
yeah, some pretty deep thinking going on there, at least it wasn't because of Hillary's emails, or was it?
so do you expect Iran to accept having its primary source of state revenue reduced by 2/3 which results in economic ruin for the country
just because Trump said so and for no other reason than that...

based on the success of the last treaty
do you think Iran should pursue ANOTHER treaty with the USA?
or do you think this time they will try to make a deal on their own terms
where the medium of exchange is American blood
why not, Iranian people are suffering because of sanctions
Persians and vengeance...I believe these two are well acquainted with each other
so we are on step 1
and Trump bailed on step 2
so Iran will now make more and bigger step 1's
and at some point Trump will walk right into their trap
and a whole bunch of poor and middle class Americans are gonna get some real sympathetic next of kin letters from the US military
maybe the NRA can send some of their "thoughts and prayers" along to these folks as well, if they even exist after next year

but I don't want ya to worry, no, no, wouldn't want that
there won't be ANY Trump or Romney family members who might be harmed serving in the US military
cuz obviously, there never was and there never will be any there....
just YOU dumb asses will have your kids there

Iranians are among the deepest strategic thinkers I have ever encountered
ahead of Russians and Chinese, chilling, kinda like melding a Thugee cult into politics
I read a nonfictional account of a group of Iranian clerics
who controlled Iranian politics through assassination
it was like a giant chess game
everything going on in the middle east is an Iranian chess game
and you guys got Donald Trump playing for your team!!!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
how do say checkmate in Farsi?


these are people who got hundreds of Vespa scooters and welded a copy of an M20 recoilless rifles to the frame and added an enlarged trigger and shorter barrel
meant to be fired at less than 50 meters from target
they recruited teenagers for suicide missions where 30 teens on these scooters would attack in a wave each Iraqi heavy tank
about half survived
the operation was considered a HUGE success

USS Cole nearly sunk by 4 Arabs in a row boat (2 of them children)

Al Queda with just 19 soldiers armed with boxcutters, killed thousands of Americans, destroyed 3 commercial airliners and bombed the pentagon
caused 100 billion in economic damage to the USA
caused the USA to engage in two wars costing thousands more lives and trillions of dollars
and they are Sunday school amateurs compared to Iran

sleep well...

if you look in detail at what Iran is doing
you can see that it's VERY calculated and deliberate
and the next step will be an escalation
a tanker will be sunk or pipeline blown up

you can bet with 100% certainty
that whatever plan Iran has cooked up
they've already spent years training for it
and they're ALL just itching for a chance
to do it....

Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 27, 2019, 08:05:09 AM
" deterrence did.  "

and when deterrence no longer deters
because the stakes are too high?

you don't understand Iranians



I lived and worked with them for two years.   Both those educated at Cambridge and those who herded sheep.  I understand their culture of martyrdom.  I understand their culture of dishonesty.  I understand their religious zeal.   

I also understand some of their weaknesses.  Example - traffic in Teheran was absolutely horrendous.  British consultants for UNDP analyzed traffic volume, width of streets, signaling, police, etc.  Their conclusion - there would be no traffic jams if drivers followed the rules.  They do not queue.

Example Two -  One evening a date and I went to a Teheran cinema showing an English film.  Hordes of Iranians crowded outside the doors (no queue), so we paused outside to ponder options for the evening.  The theater shared a building with a restaurant where suddenly flames broke out of a window.    This had the ingredients for a horrible tragedy: fire moving from the adjacent restaurant into the theater,  theater doors blocked by an unruly crowd, traffic jam blocking arrival of fire fighter equipment. 

Within mere minutes I could see the fire trucks making their way through the traffic jam.  Running ahead of each truck was a team of muscular Iranians pushing cars into the bordering jubes (large, open drainage ditches alongside the major streets).  The trucks got through, and the fire extinguished.  The next day some cars remained stuck in the jube. 



The answer to your justifiable concern - no boots on the ground.  Economic warfare.  How are we doing?  My concern is with sleeper cells of IRGC embedded across the globe, ready to hit us. 


Their civilization is older than 3,000 years, and look at them today.  The classic Persian literature speaks of encounters with Vikings (probably from Sweden) a 1,000 years ago and describes these ancient Swedes as  filthy, stinky barbarians.  Things change.      :D ;D ;D
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 27, 2019, 08:16:21 AM
Dear American Rednecks and Village Idiots

something for you to consider...
August 1, 1941 the USA blocked oil exports to Japan
Dec 7, 1941, Japan responds...


And Japan woke a sleeping giant. 

Japan in 1941 was relatively stronger than Iran in 2019. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 27, 2019, 08:24:32 AM
you should study the history of the Spartans...
hundreds and hundreds of military victories created their culture over two centuries...
but the first time they suffered a major military defeat
their civilization collapsed

when US sanctions on Iran and Russia are overturned by clever asymmetrical warfare
so that US sanctions become irrelevant
America's military prowess becomes a laughing stock
if a carrier is sunk by 2 old men and a boy in a fishing boat
or an Italian registered oil tanker firing a salvo of Silk Worm anti-ship missiles
where's your deterrence then?

this will be the complete END of America's super power status if this happens
this is the bet your great leader has chosen for your people...
let's see which way the coin lands when it gets tossed...

don't go by WWII
might as well be medieval knights in armor

everything's asymmetrical warfare now...
all Iran has to do is shut down the straits
take whatever punishment is inflicted for this
and holdout for as long as possible
since you know Iranians AND Americans
who do you think will blink FIRST?



Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 27, 2019, 08:44:26 AM
Wrong.  I don't hate nor even passionately dislike Trump personally.  I know people who do, but personally I think he is rather humorous.

You see how conflicted you are. You previously cited your passionate dislike was about his/their policies. Not personality. Now you're citing personality. You do know the first impulse of a conflicted person is deny that they are. You know that, right?

Quote
For the most part wrong again.   1Me calling trump a 'wimp' is being sarcastic because that is what the conservative patriots would call Obama if he were to have reacted the way trump has to Iran shooting down an expensive drone.   Of course now many patriots are refraining from labeling trump a wimp.   
And yes I do agree with trump's decision not to attack Iran militarily.   2I don't see a conflict,  I have the capacity to agree with certain aspects of trump policy and disagree with others, and I feel fine about it.   3 I find the conflict with supporters that once advocated hard line tactics when Obama was president now are suddenly dovish because trump 'wimped out'. 
Trump is continuing and hasn't harmed the recovery that occurred under obama.  Many numbers compare closely.  Many of his policies aren't progressing...

...and here are more reasons why I now know for sure you are conflicted.

1. Steve Kerr was asked after losing the 7th game in the finals about what does he think would've happened had Klay Thompson not go down in the 3rd quarter, to which he immediately replied..."I don't 'think' because it didn't happen. He went down!" That, FT, contrary to your stated sentiment above, is an example of a man who is not conflicted. Downed drone under Obama's administration didn't happen during his presidency. It happened with Trump's.

2. Your overwhelming 'disagreement easily far outweighs your agreement. The TRUMP thread (I can't believe that thread is still active, 3 years after the election. LMAO), where you likely own half the posts in it showcasing your passionate dislike of Trump's presidency - hardly supports the notion you're 'indifferent'. Matter of fact, not until we engaged in this current exchanged that you admit to actually 'agreeing' with Trump on anything. Definitely conflicted there., too.

3. In your conflicted state of mind, you aren't able to discern the difference between Obama's 'redline' threat from Trump's cancellation of a military strike. Now mind you, and unless you were ignorant of it, the US succeeded in virtually shutting down IRGC's radar systems and missile base systems rendering the IRGC's incapable of defending itself momentarily to which a supporting ensuing military strike was wholly unnecessary. That was enough to remind those idiots where 'control' really is. Thus, Trump  simply said he's open for renegotiation again. SO - you may rest in your laurels that Trump didn't 'do anything' despite what he said he was going to do - but that's OK with me, too. I am not the conflicted one.

Moreover, saying the current economy is Obama's doing is another reason why I know you're definitely conflicted. It's akin to saying Obama caused the financial collapse because the repercussion happened during his term.

Methinks FT, you listen to Rachel Maddow & Co. too much...
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 27, 2019, 09:14:15 AM
only total dumbshitz think the sun shines out of King Trump’s ass
but ya'll are gonna get sun burn though or something that looks like it, burned definitely....
don't get too close...
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 27, 2019, 09:19:41 AM
:::::hello darkness my old friend:::::I've come to talk with you again:::::
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: tfcrew on June 27, 2019, 09:43:03 AM
Hhhmmm...what a 'pickle' 
But it's no big dill.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 27, 2019, 10:43:37 AM
You see how conflicted you are. You previously cited your passionate dislike was about his/their policies. Not personality. Now you're citing personality. You do know the first impulse of a conflicted person is deny that they are. You know that, right?

 
The one is is confused and conflicted sounds like you!   Lets be clear, personally trump is ok with me if he were an individual in our society.  As president, I think not.   That said, it is ok with me if you want to think there is a big conflict in how I view Trump.  You are mistaken, but no worries.



...and here are more reasons why I now know for sure you are conflicted.

1. Steve Kerr was asked after losing the 7th game in the finals about what does he think would've happened had Klay Thompson not go down in the 3rd quarter, to which he immediately replied..."I don't 'think' because it didn't happen. He went down!" That, FT, contrary to your stated sentiment above, is an example of a man who is not conflicted. Downed drone under Obama's administration didn't happen during his presidency. It happened with Trump's.

 
3. In your conflicted state of mind, you aren't able to discern the difference between Obama's 'redline' threat from Trump's cancellation of a military strike. Now mind you, and unless you were ignorant of it, the US succeeded in virtually shutting down IRGC's radar systems and missile base systems rendering the IRGC's incapable of defending itself momentarily to which a supporting ensuing military strike was wholly unnecessary. That was enough to remind those idiots where 'control' really is. Thus, Trump  simply said he's open for renegotiation again. SO - you may rest in your laurels that Trump didn't 'do anything' despite what he said he was going to do - but that's OK with me, too. I am not the conflicted one.

 

I would suspect that YOU are conflicted regarding trump and projecting that conflict onto me.  Reason being he has taken positions contrary to prior positions you have taken, like the dealing with the Palestinians.    Your Kerr example has no relevance to me  Trump allowed the US to take one on the chin and did nothing much to respond except try to 'scare' Iran with words.  They are as 'defiant' as ever though so that didn't work either.   

I really don't care if you personally are conflicted.  It really doesn't have anything to issues where I disagree with trump and the attitude he projects.  Overall the belligerence he is projecting is probably more harmful then the positives of keeping the economy going well. 



Methinks FT, you listen to Rachel Maddow & Co. too much...

I do not watch any TV aside from some youtube clips of which Maddow is never one of them. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: GQBlues on June 27, 2019, 11:53:40 AM
The one is is confused and conflicted sounds like you!   Lets be clear, personally trump is ok with me if he were an individual in our society.  As president, I think not.   That said, it is ok with me if you want to think there is a big conflict in how I view Trump.  You are mistaken, but no worries.
I would suspect that YOU are conflicted regarding trump and projecting that conflict onto me.  Reason being he has taken positions contrary to prior positions you have taken, like the dealing with the Palestinians.    Your Kerr example has no relevance to me  Trump allowed the US to take one on the chin and did nothing much to respond except try to 'scare' Iran with words.  They are as 'defiant' as ever though so that didn't work either.   

I really don't care if you personally are conflicted.  It really doesn't have anything to issues where I disagree with trump and the attitude he projects.  Overall the belligerence he is projecting is probably more harmful then the positives of keeping the economy going well. 
I do not watch any TV aside from some youtube clips of which Maddow is never one of them. 

Fathertime!

Okay now, you remember about what I said regarding 'denial' as a first reaction, right?

I used Steve Kerr's response as an example to show you how a non-conflicted person will never rely on hypothesis to drive their point like you do when you try to tell us what Obama would've done, or not do, had some hypothetical state downing some hypothetical drone. Why? Because like Kerr's position about it - It's utterly useless. Only very conflicted people do that sort of thing.

To make it even worst, you then try to compare two distinct different scenarios as though they shared similar circumstances. You just compounded the severity of your state! It's conflicting!

C'mon FT, admit to us you're conflicted. That'll be a good first step to your recovery.   :P
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2019, 03:57:45 PM
And Japan woke a sleeping giant. 

Japan in 1941 was relatively stronger than Iran in 2019.

Japan was relatively much more stronger than Iran AND America then was relatively much more weaker than America of today.

Iran fought Iraq for eight years and gained nothing. America fought Iraq and marched all the way to Baghdad in a few days.

If Iran tried major military action, it would give their neighbors and America the green light to bomb their nuke program.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2019, 04:34:07 PM
Iranians are among the deepest strategic thinkers I have ever encountered
ahead of Russians and Chinese, chilling, kinda like melding a Thugee cult into politics


1941 Japanese could sail all the way to Hawaii and annihilate a docked American Fleet. Nearly 80 years later, Iran wouldn't be able to do that. They may be smart but apparently they aren't smart enough to acquire the tools to do what 1941 Japan did.

They even have to buy N Korean nuke technology to advance their nuke program.

America's military today is designed to dominate any opponent. We train to fight at night when the enemy can't see and when they can see, we blind them.

Hundreds of well trained Russian mercenaries died in Syria when they approached an American troop position. Zero American troops died. Iranian troops don't have near the experience in fighting as Russian troops do.

Iran isn't going to start WW3. Japan had Germany and other Axis powers to lean on to split the attention of the Allied powers. Who will gamble their entire nation to join Iran?
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 27, 2019, 05:29:34 PM
stop thinking about WWII
you might as well be talking about men in armor
warfare has changed

19 Arabs with box cutters killed more Americans on 9/11 than the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor that took the Japanese 5 aircraft carriers...
it's called asymmetrical warfare
this is how Iran will fight
and they may well be the world's best asymmetrical warriors
they have EVERYTHING to gain from this fight and they intend to win
your side has Donald Trump as its commander in chief
if I were you
I'd go build a wall and hide behind it



 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: ML on June 27, 2019, 07:49:57 PM
America's military today is designed to dominate any opponent. We train to fight at night when the enemy can't see and when they can see, we blind them.

Well, I am still very embarrassed by our results in Vietnam.

And also by our results in Afghanistan.

Sure, it is easy to say we didn't really go 'all out' in either case . . . but still, I think it casts some doubt on our invincibility.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: BillyB on June 27, 2019, 08:35:33 PM
stop thinking about WWII
you might as well be talking about men in armor
warfare has changed

19 Arabs with box cutters killed more Americans on 9/11 than the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor that took the Japanese 5 aircraft carriers...


Armor was added to pilots doors in airplanes to prevent another 9/11. Box cutters won't cut it this time around.

Well, I am still very embarrassed by our results in Vietnam.

And also by our results in Afghanistan.

Sure, it is easy to say we didn't really go 'all out' in either case . . . but still, I think it casts some doubt on our invincibility.

Politicians, not generals, ran the war if Vietnam. Generals weren't allowed to advance. Our military wasn't allowed to do what it knows best.

As far as Afghanistan goes, easy war to win for America. Soviets struggled and it worried people but Bush allowed the generals to run the show. Managing countries after a war is a different story. It wasn't always easy for Rome and it's not always easy for us. West Germany and Japan are great rebuild stories after a war. Give credit to the citizens that live there. The people over in the Middle East and in Afghanistan are different breeds.
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: fathertime on June 27, 2019, 10:52:34 PM
Okay now, you remember about what I said regarding 'denial' as a first reaction, right?
What difference is it what you said? 

Okay now, you remember about what I said regarding 'denial' as a first reaction, right?

I used Steve Kerr's response as an example to show you how a non-conflicted person will never rely on hypothesis to drive their point like you do when you try to tell us what Obama would've done, or not do, had some hypothetical state downing some hypothetical drone. Why? Because like Kerr's position about it - It's utterly useless. Only very conflicted people do that sort of thing.

Clearly you are lacking logic here but run with it all if you like.   Reality is I'm not a fan of trump for president.  If you don't believe that is the case then I can live with it.  I'll still agree with specific decisions he makes, like his 'wimping out', in Iran.   Had obama 'wimped out', the patriots would be jumping up and down.  Since it was trump, it was smart or he was 'restrained'...had it been obama he would have been a 'wimp'.


C'mon FT, admit to us you're conflicted. That'll be a good first step to your recovery.   :P
Many trump supporters aren't conflicted, usually the less intelligent ones of course. 

Fathertime! 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2019, 08:38:37 AM
when my children were little, they asked me...
“Daddy what is a war like?”
I told them, I’ll show you, go inside and get a banana and come back outside
then I told them, “peel the banana and lay it on the ground by the porch, but somewhere where your mother won’t see it”
they did so...
then I told them, “in a few days, you will know what war is like”
a few days later large botfly maggots were emerging from the banana
then I told my children as they were staring at the maggot covered banana
imagine that banana is your best friend’s face,
what you’re feeling right now...
that’s what war is like

so the people who took pride in their frontier guerilla tactics pitted against the World’s super power now look with disdain upon that very tactic

look y’all I’m just gonna come right out and SAY IT, ok...
this comes straight outta the "friendly" GRU folks, same folks who tried to warn y’all about the Tsarnaev bros in Boston, who WARNED you...

I am passing along a second warning
Iran is gonna turn the world upside down
this is the song YOU will play
the same way Cornwallis did at Yorktown
and you will go the way of Sparta

50 years from now
America will be a playground for rich Chinese "bizznessman"
and everyone will still be laughing about how you were COMPLETELY outsmarted by a bunch of Muslim clerics
all because of Saudi/UAE money influence over Trump and Kushner...

you more or less deserve what's coming, but I am warning you anyway...
YOU ARE WALKING INTO A TRAP!!!!
we're still at the beginning phase of the "setup"
Trump didn't take the bait this time
so an escalation will come until he does....
then we go into phase II
the USS Abraham Lincoln

PS
Dear America
Russia has secretly given S-400 missiles and S-400 technology to Iran
Ever see a world champion skeet shooter bust a buncha clay targets with a semi-auto shotgun
that's what the S-400 does to Mach 2.5 aircraft...
there are more anti-aircraft missiles than trees in Iran
factories have been chrunin em out for years...
upgraded with latest S-400 Russian technology
and some Iranian American help from California as well
with latest American technology go Intel!







Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2019, 12:40:45 PM
http://www.janes.com/article/89195/iran-unveils-new-sam-system


half the stuff going on in the middle east is the struggle between Saudi Arabia and Iran
Saudi/UAE money got to Trump/Kushner to hurt Iran
now Iran's ONLY option
is to FIGHT!!!
just like JAPAN after August 1, 1941
when we put an oil embargo on them

to fight back
Iran can use its terrain to its advantage
it's widest point strait of Hormuz is just 21 miles
it's WIDEST!!!

easy peasy for them to close this to shipping
they have gazillions of Noor anti-ship missiles that can be carried by a pickup truck
to do the job

21 million barrels per day passes through the strait
what happens when you SUDDENLY take that much oil out of the market
what happens to the price?

what happens to availability
do you remember back in the 70s when the USA had gas lines?

whatever retaliation the USA can throw at it, if Iran can show resolve
that it accepts the price
then it becomes a war of attrition
can an asymmetrical offense
i.e 9/11 type attacks vrs aircraft carrier launched attacks
produce more leverage over an enemy population

just the loss of oil alone would have a devastating effect on the American economy
and 100% gas would be rationed
for as long as this conflict lasted

also remember the 9/11 attacks besides killing thousands
caused 100 billion in direct loss and the stock market to lose hundreds of billions....
and these attacks were done by 19 guys with box cutters
and THOSE guys were all "C" level guys
Iran has THOUSANDS of "A" level guys

they will be like assassins who climb in your window at night, so...very...silent...
creeping slowly towards your bed
and then put one hand firmly over your mouth so you don't scream
and with their other hand hold a Damascus steel knife, and cut your carotid artery...
then on to the next address on the list
repeated hundreds of times and places across America simultaneously each night....

until the United States accepts a peace treaty
whereby the United States removes ALL SANCTIONS from all countries
and renounces sanctions and will never use them again

Iran is now free to ship as much oil as it wants
AND DEVELOP NUCLEAR WEAPONS
and now so is every other bloody idiot in the world
making it just a matter of time
before one is gonna get used...




Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 28, 2019, 04:01:45 PM


21 million barrels per day passes through the strait
what happens when you SUDDENLY take that much oil out of the market
what happens to the price?......just the loss of oil alone would have a devastating effect on the American economy
and 100% gas would be rationed for as long as this conflict lasted


You are destroying your own argument.  You talk about the price of oil, yet  Brent crude is at a lower price today than in May. This reflects how the smart money (and I am talking about a trillion or so) assigns a very low probability to your apocalyptic scenario.

(http://www.hellenicshippingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/BFJgborFBJrkthfbk-hfdihi2.jpg)

BTW, it is not 21 mm bbl/day.  Maybe a few months ago, but Iran is shipping less oil.  If the Strait were closed, Saudi has an unused pipeline that could divert 5 mm bbl/day to the Red Sea.  The UAE can pipe 1.5 mm bbl/day to east of the Strait. 

Nevertheless, the world oil market would lose about 12-14% of its daily oil supply.  If so, oil reserves would be used, and if the Strait remains closed for long period, some countries would be hit harder than 12-14%.  Not the US,  as we are a net exporter of oil, yet there would be some disruptions in how the oil is distributed.  Most important, some of our trading partners would cascade into the American economy. 


Quote
they will be like assassins who climb in your window at night, so...very...silent...
creeping slowly towards your bed
and then put one hand firmly over your  mouth so you don't scream
and with their other hand hold a Damascus steel knife, and cut your carotid artery...
then on to the next address on the list
repeated hundreds of times and places across America simultaneously each night....


 :ROFL:   If you are trying to imprint your nightmare on me, it is not working.  I sleep well.  And so does the oil industry based on oil prices. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 28, 2019, 04:08:22 PM
I see that you are so wound up, you did two apocalyptic posts back-to-bak!!!!!



there are more anti-aircraft missiles than trees in Iran


How effective are they against missiles? 

BTW, Iran has an extensive European climax forest in the Caspian Sea littoral region. 
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 28, 2019, 04:57:11 PM
"You talk about the price of oil, yet  Brent crude is at a lower price today than in May. "

and each glitch on your price chart was caused by a limpet mine the size of a dinner plate
set to go off ABOVE the water line
that didn't actually effect the flow of oil...
YET...

these guys are moving SLOWLY and deliberately
it is a chess game
they ARE trying to bait Trump
because they want MORE
than just shutting down the strait
they can do that any time they want
they want an end to the USA in the middle East
and an end to ALL sanctions
and the people of Iran are willing to martyr themselves to achieve this goal
so they are going to have to kick America's ass to get this
and guess what Trump voters
they have put together a plan that might actually work...
but...
how silly of me, I overlooked the obvious
that America has a stable military genius as its commander in chief
who is invincible
so no need for concern, right Trump voters?
cuz Gawd, sent Donald Trump to make blah...blah....blah....

go long on oil and gold
short the dollar

go long on oil and gold
short the dollar

go long on oil and gold
short the dollar





Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: Gator on June 29, 2019, 06:29:40 AM

go long on oil and gold
short the dollar

Keep in mind past history: 

Quote
...history gives decent odds that six months later, the market would be higher than where it stood before such a war broke out.

Source:  http://www.barrons.com/articles/iran-war-stock-market-51559052028

If you are so certain, why not leverage by buying short-term put options for the US stock market.  If not  crafted as a hedge for your existing portfolio, such is speculating, not investing; however, I doubt if that concerns you.   

Historically, the stock market sells off in anticipation of conflict but almost always begins to rally once conflict begins.  That is why I suggested puts expiring in the near term. 

Counter to your apocalyptic scenario, the market is trending upwards this month, the best June in 50 years.  I am an honest man and admit the market dipped a smidgen after the burning tankers incident, and then leveled off and resumed a strong upward trend.    After the drone incident, the market dropped more, yet has leveled off and ticked slightly up (too short term to see a pattern as China and interest rates are also factors).   

So if you bought out-of-money puts when the tanker incidents occurred, you would now be below water, and  the "smart money" would be smiling.   If purchased after the drone incident, you would be slightly below water. 



   
Title: Re: USA blows up 2 tankers and blames Iran
Post by: krimster2 on June 29, 2019, 06:54:37 AM
"If you are so certain, why not leverage by buying short-term put options for the US stock market.  "

that's what shorting the dollar means...
George, I mean Mr Soros is doing this...right now....
my broker is telling me to pull out of equities now, that the bond market has inverted
and a recession is guaranteed
perfect timing for Iran
always take advantage of natural existing conditions
just like ALWAYS use terrain to your advantage
perfect storm

as you have acknowledged...
the price of oil was altered in Iran's favor
by two guys in a rubber raft
who planted a limpet mine
that cost Iran $100 to make
you think they didn't NOTICE?

there is an actual quantifiable number
let's see what that number is when the attacks "escalate"
either a mine below the waterline
or the introduction of a new weapon
like a floating mine...

which might require American mine sweepers to enter the straits
hmmmm, what could go wrong with that?

Just like in the British Navy
in the war of 1812
with the rockets red glare
rows of sturdy young men
grim faced, lifting the rockets

and then the back doors of every falafel shop in Kolahi opens up
and 100 Noors (Phase IV)* come flying out

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noor_(missile)

the straits of Hormuz are THEN officially closed
21% of the world’s oil mainly from Saudi Arabia is then “embargoed” by Iran
meanwhile Saudi pipelines and ports are being attacked from all directions
by a ragtag navy of speed boats armed with powerful missiles and suicidal crews
and sappers coming ashore and crossing distant borders in massive numbers

bad boys, bad boys whatcha gonna do
whatcha gonna do when they come for you

cuz this is a big part of it
they’re coming for you MFers
from the INSIDE
they’re ALREADY HERE!

hundreds of “crews"
with a level of training and resources
far above Al Queda and 9/11

I’ve personally traced an Iranian crew in Fresno, California
they’re freaking everywhere

The guy known as the underwear bomber
visited a mosque in Houston, right before he got on a plane with a bomb
this particular mosque has a HUGE number of Iranian crews


don't know why Trump/kushner haven't maneuvered Israel into a war with Iran
Saudis and USA can join in and finish off Iran
75% of mid east problems would disappear
THEN negotiate with the Saudis over the limits to Wahhabism
and get them to co-sponser a two state solution for Israel/Palestine
by then, you've pretty much worked out all the major political issues in the middle east
except for the kurds, who SHOULD be given an oil bearing homeland in Iraq
and this new Kurdish state will be a USA vassal state like Israel
and be used to stamp out extremists in the region
cuz it has an army of 20,000 trained to USMC level
backed by US aircraft and high altitude reconnaissance