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Author Topic: How complicated can it get?  (Read 13517 times)

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Offline Wayne

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How complicated can it get?
« on: July 25, 2017, 09:45:08 AM »
My wife saw two different Notaries and got the same list for selling a flat in Crimea:


1. Complete certificate of the registration of the Property right for the apartment.

2. Title document (contract of purchase and sale and privatization)

3. An extract from GKN (EGRP) (The uniform state register of the rights for the real estate)
4. Technical passport plan.
5. Cadastral passport.
6. An extract from the house register.
7. The reference from hospital on sanity and lack of intellectual deviations of the seller.
8. The reference from hospital on lack of drug addiction of the seller.
9. The lawyer has to issue the document which provides the information about all persons who live in the realized housing at the moment, or before have been registered to his address. It is possible to learn from this document whether housing is burdened with any arrest or whether certain restrictions are set behind him.
    existence of encumbrances;
    status of the owner;
    data on whether the apartment is a subject of judicial proceedings.
10. Lack of debts for utilities.

Offline jone

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2017, 11:29:05 AM »
Crimea, now being under Russian law, requires registration of title after the property is acquired.   Otherwise, title claims can pop up years later and your property can be seized.  Typically, perfection of title is done six months after acquiring a property.
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Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2017, 11:49:57 AM »
My wife may have not translated everything correctly. I am sure the list was in Russian to start with. We are the sellers.

Wife says we have to pay 13% tax on the money we receive for the sale. That is regardless of profit or loss! The lawyer's fees are split 50/50 with the buyer.

In Ukraine and now in Russia, a Notary seems like some kind of little God! There fees are crazy!

Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 07:35:04 AM »
The cost for the 10 documents will be more than $3000.

We have an offer, but for much less than my wife paid for the flat. The flat is in a very old building and it has not been taken care of.

She bought the flat years before we were married; I am not sure when? The flat has windows and doors replaced, kitchen and bath remodeled.

The bedroom and main room need some work. The roof needs repair. The balcony is falling apart.

The outside of the building and common areas are average for such an old building. The flat is on the upper floor with no lift; two flights of stairs.

Offline BillyB

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 04:27:00 PM »
We have an offer, but for much less than my wife paid for the flat.


It's a buyers market. Make necessary repairs and rent the flat. Wait for the conflict in the region to end with stability ruling the land and money filling up people's pockets. Sell when the market favors sellers.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 07:29:00 PM »
It's a buyers market. Make necessary repairs and rent the flat. Wait for the conflict in the region to end with stability ruling the land and money filling up people's pockets. Sell when the market favors sellers.

It's in Crimea, Billy.  Conflict will never end while Putin and his ilk control Russia.

Offline BillyB

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 10:43:40 PM »
It's in Crimea


I still consider the region Ukraine and as long as Ukraine is affected by conflict, they will not support fully Crimea and as long as Russia is under sanctions and hurting financially, they will not fully support Crimea either.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #7 on: July 28, 2017, 08:56:38 AM »
We tried renting out the flat years ago, but the tenants damaged things since we were in USA and not able to control it. If you arrange for an agent to take care of it, collect the money, etc. you will pay a stiff fee. Plus, Russia has property taxes that we never had in Ukraine.

The condo management is collecting money each month for repairs THAT THEY SAY WILL START IN 2025!
Until then, nothing will be done.

Remember, we have the dacha which is worth way more that is tiny flat!

Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 09:37:46 AM »
The building was built in 1907 as part of a military complex. The building quality is lower than a typical USSR building. Wife invested too much into a flat in this very old and run down building. No matter how nice the inside of the flat, you still have the poor condition of the large building--and no control over what other people do with their flat!

Besides, we own other properties there!

Offline msmob

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 09:38:45 AM »
I still consider the region Ukraine and as long as Ukraine is affected by conflict, they will not support fully Crimea and as long as Russia is under sanctions and hurting financially, they will not fully support Crimea either.

Billy, you misunderstand... Putin has nailed his ass to Crimea being part of Russia - connecting it physically to Russia - be it by bridges and / or more UA territory being under separatist control...

Sanctions are used by Putin & co as the excuse' for woes that would otherwise be attributed to economic mismanagement

Crimea just isn't likely to be coming back...   while Putin or any other 'patriot' is in power ..


Offline ML

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 10:31:41 AM »
Billy, you misunderstand... Putin has nailed his ass to Crimea being part of Russia - connecting it physically to Russia - be it by bridges and / or more UA territory being under separatist control...

Sanctions are used by Putin & co as the excuse' for woes that would otherwise be attributed to economic mismanagement

Crimea just isn't likely to be coming back...   while Putin or any other 'patriot' is in power ..

And actually Ukraine would be better off NOT taking Crimea back, even if offered.  It was always a money drain for Ukrainian budget.

Best would be to have Russia keep it . . . and pay Ukraine billions for it.
This, of course, could come about in negotiations for lifting of Western  sanctions against Russia.

A long shot idea and would not happen soon in any event.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #11 on: July 28, 2017, 10:55:35 AM »
All the tourist attractions in Crimea have been closed down.
It is turning into one big military base.

Who on this forum have ever been there?

I can think of very few!

Offline ML

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #12 on: July 28, 2017, 05:18:09 PM »
I have been to Crimea twice for a month each time.  Toured most of the interesting places in and around several cities.  Yalta has a dozen or more interesting places to see; but I think I would prefer to live in Sevastopol . . . if it were still under Ukrainian control.  Yalta is too hilly for walking around.

Couple of USA guys I know (or knew) live in Sevastopol and own 2 or more apts each.  Both married to Ukrainian gals.
A beautiful woman is pleasant to look at, but it is easier to live with a pleasant acting one.

Offline BillyB

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #13 on: July 28, 2017, 09:45:23 PM »
And actually Ukraine would be better off NOT taking Crimea back, even if offered.  It was always a money drain for Ukrainian budget.


Owning Crimea means owning a large chunk of the Black Sea. There are commercial and military benefits owning that much waterline. Also there is an estimated one trillion dollars worth of fossil fuels in the Black Sea Ukraine could've benefited from. Of course Russia wouldn't want Ukraine to be energy independent or even worse, a competitor in selling gas and oil to Europe.
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

Offline msmob

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #14 on: July 28, 2017, 09:59:17 PM »
All the tourist attractions in Crimea have been closed down.
It is turning into one big military base.

Who on this forum have ever been there?

I can think of very few!

I've been to Simferopol, Sevastopl, Balaklava, Inkerman and done the valley of the Charge of the Light Brigade - not one of Britain's finest military moments...  I flew in / out of Belbek - which was news worthy in late Feb/ early March 2014 when unarmed Ukrainians marched to work and were prevented by 'little green men' who fired over their heads....  When I hear 'no shots fired' and all was peaceful during the MILITARY take-over - I wonder at the 'selective' visual abilities of some folks....

It might have been part of Ukraine - officially - but it felt that the Ukrainians were in a HUGE minority ( militarily and  population-wise)  and UA lang adverts seemed misplaced.

Offline JayH

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #15 on: July 29, 2017, 01:07:16 AM »
All the tourist attractions in Crimea have been closed down.
It is turning into one big military base.

Who on this forum have ever been there?

I can think of very few!

Prior to the Russian invasion and occupation --I have been there many times . Every place mentioned by others -- and many more --from one end to the other and across .
I drive myself--  so have been a lot of places that are outside of usual tourist destinations.
I consider I know Crime very well.
The coast from Yalta to Alushta to Koktebel and Feodosiya  is spectacular.
On the other side of Crimea --Evapotoria has substantial  beaches.
In the past --millions of Ukrainians travelled to Crimea for a beach holiday annually -- and in high season everywhere was extremely busy holiday destination.
Many from Russia, and in fact all over the FSU also went there.It was a happy place.
At the time I had a good friend who worked as tourist guide from Sevastopal and she covered most of Crimea but particularly her city and Yalta.- So I have also done many of the tourist things-- some  numerous times ( I was always happy to go to Sub base)  ! She is fluent in English,German,Russia & perfect Ukrainian (despite having
solid Russian bloodlines) .
It was without question --the area of Ukraine I would have chosen to live-- and did consider  doing exactly that.




I've been to Simferopol, Sevastopl, Balaklava, Inkerman and done the valley of the Charge of the Light Brigade - not one of Britain's finest military moments...  I flew in / out of Belbek - which was news worthy in late Feb/ early March 2014 when unarmed Ukrainians marched to work and were prevented by 'little green men' who fired over their heads....  When I hear 'no shots fired' and all was peaceful during the MILITARY take-over - I wonder at the 'selective' visual abilities of some folks....

It might have been part of Ukraine - officially - but it felt that the Ukrainians were in a HUGE minority ( militarily and  population-wise)  and UA lang adverts seemed misplaced.

Without getting into specifics--there was no resistance to initial landings.Russian special forces landed by helicopter and and occupied the Belbek base-- while Ukrainian government was in a state of confusion.As it happens-- I actually watched these very first landings on the internet.

Regardless of your comment --it is bs and ignorant as usual-- Crimea is and was part of Ukraine-- and Ukrainians WERE NOT in a huge minority. Repeating BS like that is typical of your ignorance :deadhorse:
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline JayH

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #16 on: July 29, 2017, 09:58:49 AM »
Moby , I know it kills you to be so wrong.
Using Wikepedia as your source -it is also wrong.

The shots fired were over the heads of unarmed troops.
At the Belbek military installation in Crimea, Ukrainian soldiers refused to surrender to Russian troops and instead marched, unarmed, to confront them in the face of warning shots.
This reference is the barracks area -- not the airport itself.Although --it is   obviously enough pretty close and part of that area.

What I described above is THE FACT of the matter.
The very first arrivals came in the guise of returning troops from doing security in Sochi for the winter Olympics .
It was immediately seen that they were in full combat gear and armed as such -- and as they arrived they immediately set up a series of secure perimeters on the airport itself.

Over the next week --much happened all over Crimea( & Ukraine),with the unmarked "green" men doing the potential serious work  on the Crimea

 -- and in unimportant areas  were replaced by local goons. The Russian military concentrated on military bases --both naval and army -- and many Ukrainian forces were trapped .
Subsequently --some did choose to surrender in a negotiated situation that allowed them to leave Crimea -- some chose to be traitors and joined with the Russians.



The events you alluding to at Belbek -- went like this-note the date.
Crimea, Ukraine. At the military airport “Belbek” near Sevastopol 4.03.2014




PS -- after writing the above -- I started looking at dates etc-- there is a high degree of conflicting reports on dates -- so perhaps that explains Moby to a degree . There was several different confrontations that lead to a negotiated position --in quite a few different locations.Above all else -- it took years for Russia and Putin to admit that it was Russia and Russian troops responsible


« Last Edit: July 29, 2017, 10:47:16 AM by JayH »
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline msmob

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #17 on: July 29, 2017, 11:46:19 AM »
Moby , I know it kills you to be so wrong.

You're a 'funny' guy.. What is 'wrong' about showing you the video EVIDENCE ... think it was doctored ? :))



"6-10 days after the takeover "... ?  :D  More JayH - fantasy ..It was on the morning of the 4th March .. The video is of the UA personnel deciding to march back to work- having two days hence been 'removed' ..


1/ Do you dispute armed troops used flash bangs in the Crimea Parliament ?

2/ Do you dispute they used tanks to knock down UA defence perimeters ?

3/ Do you dispute that Peace-keepers were fired upon?

Please carry on with your 'memories' of events in JayH's world...  As it stands you should be working for a Kremlin based news agency - as you seem to be trying to portray 'how things happened'according to them...

Who used Wikipeadia ?

Now here comes the JayH 'out' ..

PS -- after writing the above -- I started looking at dates etc-- there is a high degree of conflicting reports on dates -- so perhaps that explains Moby to a degree .

JayH : There's never been any confusion on my part  I saw the Belbek vid on UK Channel 4's news at lunchtime on the 4th 

So much for '6-10 days.. So, JayH - does it 'kill you to be proven wrong' - AGAIN .. ? :))

This is yet ANOTHER howler:
"Above all else -- it took years for Russia and Putin to admit that it was Russia and Russian troops responsible
"

About a month, actually ... April 17th 2014..http://uk.reuters.com/article/russia-putin-crimea-idUKL6N0N921H20140417

Offline whynotme

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #18 on: July 29, 2017, 03:07:52 PM »
The cost for the 10 documents will be more than $3000.

We have an offer, but for much less than my wife paid for the flat. The flat is in a very old building and it has not been taken care of.

She bought the flat years before we were married; I am not sure when? The flat has windows and doors replaced, kitchen and bath remodeled.

The bedroom and main room need some work. The roof needs repair. The balcony is falling apart.

The outside of the building and common areas are average for such an old building. The flat is on the upper floor with no lift; two flights of stairs.


If the property was bought more than three years ago, the taxes are not paid. You don't need a notary for sale, just state registration. Well, the sum in $3000 causes the big doubts for me. If your wife bought a flat, she should have almost all papers from the list. 
However, keep talking about the horrors in the Crimea.  ;D

Offline Jumper

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #19 on: July 29, 2017, 07:51:36 PM »
All the tourist attractions in Crimea have been closed down.
It is turning into one big military base.

Who on this forum have ever been there?

I can think of very few!

I've been there a few times.

While certainly a resort area, it has long held military significance, predating any modern countries being there.


 
.

Offline JayH

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #20 on: July 29, 2017, 09:18:59 PM »
All the tourist attractions in Crimea have been closed down.
It is turning into one big military base.

Who on this forum have ever been there?

I can think of very few!

Wayne --when were you there?

That question has been asked by a few people -- and I am curious to know that answer myself.

So --when were you there ?
  eg When was the last time ? The first time?
How much time have you spent there?
SLAVA UKRAYINI  ! HEROYAM SLAVA!!!!
Слава Украине! Слава героям слава!Слава Україні! Слава героям!
 translated as: Glory to Ukraine! Glory to the heroes!!!  is a Ukrainian greeting slogan being used now all over Ukraine to signify support for a free independent Ukraine

Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2017, 09:48:12 AM »
I first went to Crimea in winter of 2001. My wife and her family are from there. I was last there in 2014. My wife sends me photos when she is there. For example, I attach a photo from last week showing a beach that would normally be full of people in July.

I have been to the military base that people have talked about.

Offline Anotherkiwi

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #22 on: July 31, 2017, 05:46:53 PM »
I first went to Crimea in winter of 2001. My wife and her family are from there. I was last there in 2014. My wife sends me photos when she is there. For example, I attach a photo from last week showing a beach that would normally be full of people in July.

That's a pretty nice beach, Wayne.  Almost looks like it could be the south coast of England - if the cliffs were whiter!

Offline Wayne

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2017, 09:28:53 AM »
Responding to:  "That's a pretty nice beach, Wayne.  Almost looks like it could be the south coast of England - if the cliffs were whiter!"

The wild, natural beach extends for many miles. There is a break in the cliffs near our dacha where you can walk or drive a 4WD vehicle down to the beach. This time of year, people usually have tents set up and are camping there.

Reminds me of several places along the shore of Lake Superior; e.g. Pictured Rocks, Indian pictographs, etc.

We can also get in the car and drive a few miles north or south to small towns on the shore with developed beaches.

I attach photo of our yard in early Spring. The same trees now with fruit.

Offline BillyB

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Re: How complicated can it get?
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2017, 09:34:52 PM »
I attach photo of our yard in early Spring. The same trees now with fruit.


Looks like a good yield on those trees. If you can't eat them all, you know where to send them.  :D
Fund the audits, spread the word and educate people, write your politicians and other elected officials. Stay active in the fight to save our country. Over 220 generals and admirals say we are in a fight for our survival like no other time since 1776.

 

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