Kharkov Trip Report

[luvmesumknicks]

Hi everyone. Brand new to the forum. I Joined because I wanted to share my story with you, and to get feedback on my first trip to Kharkov to meet a woman.

It is important to me to know how to proceed!

My name is Michael. I went to Kharkov from New York for six days last month. I met one woman on Jump4Love.com back in October, which is an affiliate of Anastasia date. I only ended up messaging two women total on the site. One reason being the cost of pay per letter. I basically tried to determine who was the most genuine and real in the messages, and go from there.

The one girl I liked best who stuck I ended up pursuing and meeting on my trip was Kristina. We ended up writing a lot and I reached the point to obtain contact info. I felt she was the real deal and it was worth pursuing. I then took the next step to verify her identity once I had the info by sending her flowers via UFL where they take her picture and everything checked out. Once I did that we actually took our messages off Jump4Love, and started talking on Viber everyday for free, which was a great sign, and something Kristina initiated.

So we talked on Viber for awhile and I decided I would make the jump to go see her in Kharkov, as I honestly wanted a vacation and to travel somewhere fun anyway. I set up everything through Mila Lobunko so I'd have her help and a place to stay if it fell through and anything went wrong. To my pleasure, Kristina was indeed real and we met in Kharkov. She was very affectionate in person but also seemed very shy. If that seems contradicting, I guess I mean 'holding hands under the table' kind of thing. The first night we got together we went out for sushi and the whole night had a very good mood. She came with her sister. The meal wasn't expensive and they definitely didn't take advantage of my generousity.

We made plans to go out again the next night to a club. She contacted me from her sisters phone because hers had broke. I was kind of on alert heading into meeting her again because I am knowledgable of the pro dater scam. Kristina was spending a lot of time working by her own accord and we weren't actually spending a lot of time together, which I guess I expected more excitement to see me for traveling so far, but I withheld judgement. It was freezing and snowy January and she told me how her job was all she had. But regardless flags were starting to go up. Sushi, club, and I was expecting her to ask me to help her buy a new phone. I talked to her sister though to try and get more clarity and learn more about her and how she felt about our meeting, and it really made me feel a lot better because she seemed very genuine, so I gave going to the club a chance.

Kristina actually came with her sister and her sisters friend, another girl. And they offered to pay for their own entry. We got denied entry first because I was wearing cargo pants, so they brought me to a friends house at about midnight in Kharkov to change pants. To think what my mother would think. Lmao. At the club, everything seemed cool at first, but Kristina really started getting withdrawn, mopey, and would leave about every five minutes with her sister. I tried asking her to dance and she didn't want to. I'd try asking if she was alright and putting my arm around her and she would move away. The whole thing was extremely weird.

I ended up just having fun with their friend they invited and dancing with her. Kristinas sister told me something along the lines of their mother going to the hospital. It was very hard for me to understand because I was relying on rough translation and not the courtesy of google translate on my iPod with the club having no WiFi. We ended up leaving and they dropped me off. They took care of the taxi. I thought I wouldn't hear from them again after that but alas, she got ahold of me the next day and asked if I was alright and said she was really sorry for everything, that things were resolved. Her sister let me know also that Kristina was very upset that work was getting in the way of us spending more time together than we were. So she told me it was kind of a deal where she was upset because she knew I would be leaving I guess and it was hard to be close to me? If that makes any sense. We didn't see much of each other after that in the remaining days of my trip. We texted and still talked, but her sister tried helping me get her boss to let her come see me before I left and I guess she wasn't allowed, so I instead had her sister deliver her a message and a necklace basically saying if she wanted to continue things I was willing and that I do like her.

She never asked for any help or to replace her phone. She seemed very prideful and I wasn't exactly sure what happened, but I just took the whole trip in stride and was able to have a lot of fun beside her situation. We actually still talk everyday. SHe uses personal email to write me. She says she is interested in coming here to marry me in the future but she wants to take things slow.

So that's where things stand. Like I said, I had fun, I met her, she was real, and she seemed genuine. But as you can gather now is a time where after meeting her, I kind of decide to either pursue things or get off the pot and maybe focus my attention elsewhere if anyone here thinks things seemed too fishy. If anybody has any questions for me or advice, I'm open and all ears.

Michael

[calmissile]

Without actually being there it is hard to make certain conclusions about your date.  I am glad you decided to make a vacation trip of it.  Getting to understand the culture, get to know your way around and make friends is always worth the effort.

One of the things I learned in my dating of UA women was actually something that we should apply there as we do at home.  So, without making any disparaging remarks about your gal, consider what you would have done at home.  In most cases if a gal had no more chemistry than this, you would move on and not give it much thought.  There are literally thousands of elegible women in UA that would probably be more interested in you.  Why not give it a chance to finding one?

There is also an expression about UA women that you can take to the bank........ When a UA woman is truly interested in you there will  be no ambiquity.  You will know it for certain.

It's a long read, but if you want to follow one persons detailed experience in this adventure you can read a couple of my adventures/trip reports.  There are many others as well.

Good luck!

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=15123.0

http://www.russianwomendiscussion.com/index.php?topic=18377.0

[cc3]

I totally endorse what cal has written. I would add to limit your eastern European partner search to English speakers only, of which there are an innumerable amount of worthwhile potential mates...it makes developing a substantial relationship much more likely. Before marrying my Ukrainian wife, I had dated both non-English and English speakers. Invariably, relations with the English speakers were much more pleasant and rewarding.

[Shadow]

Move on. There seems to be zero chemistry (including in the picture), and she may just be writing in order to see if you will be convinced to send her anything.

[Faux Pas]

At least you got a nice trip, met some folks and had a good time? Yeah move on I'd say, she's not into you. That was pretty evident when she showed up with the sister and later with friends.  If she had been into you white horses wouldn't have kept her away. I give her kudos for not attacking your wallet and being somewhat of a respectful host however, something else was going on. Sounds like she may have had a boyfriend.

No matter, she's history and you learned the lay of the land. Sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, you're a fairly young and good looking man. You can do well in Ukraine. You started out on the PPL/C site. Try a different one where you can have early unlimited contact. It gives you a chance to really get to know her, move on to Skype or stop wasting your time on insincere women.

Good Luck

[GatoMoon]

QUOTE:  "She never asked for any help or to replace her phone"

Not necessarily means she hasn't, but though it might be that she is hoping you would buy her a new one.  Hence telling you that her phone has broken!

QUOTE: their mother going to the hospital

Heard that story many times especially the grandmother part.  I was due to meet a girl in Kiev last December, but hours before I was due to fly out, she had cancelled the meeting due to her grandmother being very sick and died the day I was due to arrive.   Found out she lied!  Actually it was because she realised that I would find out that she doesn't live in Kiev as she told me.  Instead she lives in Kherson !!

[Noch1]

I agree, You should move on.
Take the trip as gained experience.
As has already been said, if a women from
the FSU is into you would know it.
She would be closer, even with work and family,
she would have spent every spare waking hour with you.

This is a tough  endeavour, that is time and money consuming.
Spend your efforts on finding someone who is into you,
instead of hoping it might happen.

[Jumper]

that things were resolved.

,,,, but she dint see you much from that point on either.
So *whatever* being resolved did not matter.

Move on, she just isn't really into you for whatever reason
(sounds like local BF or ex  to me, but could be any of a million reasons)

Stay away from pay sites.

As a young guy living there you'd have plenty of female attention,
so anyone that doesn't seem as interested in you, as you are in them,
just move on immediately.

Good Luck

[BC]

IMHO the first five minutes tell the tale (or tail) LOL
Chemistry is everything.  If it doesn't hit both of you right away it probably isn't happening.

Doesn't mean there is anything wrong or amiss on either side, just that anything forward with this particular relationship will be like swimming upstream.

But hey.. you met on the net, you got off a couch and on a plane and that's more than 99% of FSUW seekers do so not bad at all.  Quite an accomplishment!

[ML]

Had my spouse read the OP's post.

She mentioned two things:

1) If mother really were ill, in hospital  or going to hospital, the daughters would not be going to a club.

2) She thinks the girl was contacted by a current boyfriend or recontacted by a previous boyfriend and that's what led to the strange behavior at the club.

[southernX]

while i agree with much of whats written above i would add this

i would keep in touch with her , but id also be chasing up other ladys there as well , keep all options open see which ones might lead to a best result

things to keep in mind

life there is dam tough at present , anyone with a job is going to move hell on earth to keep it , you where a nice bloke , but her job will take precedence over her time &her feeling may well be that any possible future with you is a small % chance  of success way into the future , at present she must live and concentrate on the now ,

more info is required if possible
how old is she ?
does she live with her family ?
what are their views about her possibly leaving ?
does she financially support them at present ?
did she go to the night club willingly ??  or did she go to please you ??

while she may have a boyfriend in the background , its also possible she can not afford to spend any money on anything but bare essentials  & is too proud to ask you ,

if you took her with her friends , given your trying to win her and develop the relationship , its not the best move to dance with her friend and let her move away , no matter her quiet mood etc

id suggest this only may help to confirm her feeling of reluctance to put much faith in developing a relationship with you , remember many of these girls expect the worst and dont just open up easily to new people etc , no matter how much emails o skype you have it all start from scratch once you meet in person

building trust takes time and they will assess all your actions , scrutinising them , and so will their girlfriends and family especially if they dont want them to leave

im not sure the contact with her employer would have gone done well either , thats usually a big no no

anyway , thats my thoughts

keep us posted on what happens

SX

[Gator]

Welcome Michael!!!

Even when there is chemistry from beginning, it still is very difficult to make these FSU relationships work.  It is hopeless when the initial meeting goes bad. 

There are many possible explanations for what happened.  Do not concern yourself with explanations, just forget about her.   

So what do you think about UW?  Want to try again?  If you communicate directly with UW rather than indirectly through a pay-per-letter (PPL) agency, you will know much, much more before you get on a airplane.  Many of the letters you receive from PPL agencies were written by staff, and frequently the women never see your letters or photos.   

From the photo, you appear to be a young, fit man.  From your one post, you are a decent person and not an idiot.  And you have the money to take a trip.  So my guess is there are 100,000 UW out there who are dying to meet you and who would treat you better than Kristina. 

[luvmesumknicks]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I appreciate it and I can always take any feedback good or bad.

To someones question above, she asked me if I would go to the club with her when the first nights date, the dinner date, was over. She invited me to do that. I could have pushed her to stay with me more in retrospect but we made plans so I just left it.

Honestly, my gut assessment of the situation told me that maybe it was more an issue of she didn't expect things to be serious between us, seeing as how probably only a fraction of men who potentially write girls make the trip, and once we started doing things together it got very real and maybe put her in an awkward position? Like perhaps she was just expecting to entertain me, and then saw I was a decent young guy. Not necessarily assuming the best possible outcome, but I am simply keeping my options open with her.

Do I think there was/is another man in the picture? I doubt it. Her sister was telling me that Kristina was "happy again in a way she hadn't been in a long time" among other things in my exchange before going to the club to gain clarity. My gut told me they were both honest. For all I know, she could have joined the PPL site BECAUSE she does not have a lot of income like a poster mentioned above or live well. Out of respect for her though I won't judge that or get into that. All I can say is it wouldn't be fair of me to ask any decent girl to jump in the deep end and ditch her livelihood right off for a blossoming internet fling! All I will do is continue talking to her as that has been going great and be there for her. Invest what I get back from her.

I'm actually in a good place where I'm waiting to start a new job. I used the time in between to go on this trip, and the cost wasn't bad at all. I flew from NYC to Kharkov with only 1 brief stop in Kiev for about 600 or 700 round trip. Definitely wouldn't mind doing it again. I know even if a FSU girl totally likes you, moving to marry is a huge thing, and a decision that takes a lot of patience and understanding. So I will take it slow, focus on my new job, save some more money, and keep my options open. Focus on Kristina but not drown myself in investment. Also stay open to other girls if things don't work out.

I'll keep you updated on how things progress.

[GregfromGa]

Stick with women that speak your language. It's tough enough as it is. Kharkov in January is hard. I spent a month in January back in the day.

[BillyB]

 Welcome to the forum Michael. It seems you are going to stick with Kristina.  Many here have had trip reports much more exciting with less doubt than yours. You can have this experience too.


Whar are good reasons for you to dedicate your life to Kristina at this moment? Why should Kristina dedicate herself to you? She hasn't earned your trust and you left Kharkov trusting her less. You made mistakes too. A man should pay for everything on a date, including the woman's transportation and even if she offers to pay, you need to step up. You haven't gained her respect and without respect, you're not going to get love. Without love, there's no sincere reason she has to marry you.


If I were in your shoes, I'd move on to a sure thing and get rid of the cargo pants forever.

[luvmesumknicks]

Thank you, I'm 25 so this journey is just starting. Certain aspects of my trip I didn't include in my posts. I paid for our dinners, drinks, transportation no questions asked. And the issue of trying to get her boss to come see me was simply her sister calling her at work and asking her if she could come. I did not mention this explicitly. So it wasn't anything like us showing up there. I also even gave her some money back with the letter I  gave her the day I left for taking care of the taxi ride back home that night. They had dropped me off back to my place before being dropped off home themselves.

The trip could have gone a lot better, but based on everything they told me and explained to me, I wouldn't just throw away our communication over how it unfolded. Did I drop the ball anywhere? Eh probably, but nothing too egregious I think it would alter her opinion of me. I was very open and took care of her the whole time. It won't take long to see how things progress from here. Worst case scenario, I go back in a couple of months with more experience and the same thing happens, I have Mila help me meet someone else and enjoy myself either way. Then I do things better than before. I will limit future communications to better sites too.

[southernX]

LVSMK

sounds like your are being pretty sensible in your outlook ,
trust your gut instinct , it usually is close to correct ime , the next few weeks or so will give you agood idea of what your next trip will entail

if your using mila again locally i have no doubt you will find success in kharkiv

best wishes
SX

[Jumper]

You can certainly keep communicating with her, why not?

I just wouldn't count much on it.
why?  I'll list just a couple reasons.

1. A lot of Pay sites pay the girls.
This semi- good, yet semi disinterested reception to a man showing up,
 is a haul mark of a women not really truly interested, for any reason, but it is indeed a staple of those working for the aweb satellite agencies.

2.Her friend seemingly showed more interest.

That's just a simple one to illustrate that a women ,just meeting you, and  mildly interested in you, showed as much or more interest than the one you had been communicating with.
She wasn't distant, moody ,or making excuses for not spending time.

Interested women are not that hard to find, so its just better *general* advice to tell you to pursue women showing active interest.
The ones not making any excuses, and genuinely wanting to spend as much time as they possibly can  while you are there.

3.Yes absolutely work can get in the way, sure!
This is easily discussed , and understood.
It is clear cut, it is black and white,not the grey you left Kharkov with.

So be mindful of what you would do if interested, and she came to
see you, if it's not the same actions, then the interest level simply isn't mutual. Do not chalk anything like that up to cultural differences.

Its a bit odd the sister is so much of a go between.
That doesn't  bode well either.

If she treated a Ukrainian guy who came to visit from Kherson this way, its doubtful they meet up again.He'd go out with her sister or the friend.Kharkov is full of coeds for a 25 yo male there.Things are simple in that aspect.

In the FSU actions speak volumes over words.
This cuts both ways.

So mind what you do, what actions you take.
and mind what the FSU women  actual do! Their actions , not what they say, not what the a sister says they  *mean* by their actions,
by what they actually do.period.
Nothing more nothing less.
This simple premise will help you more than anything else i can think of.

 In this case she seemingly met you 2 or 3 times (?) at most and during the meetings acted both interested and disinterested /moody.
I wouldn't see a woman again on such a mediocre note without some solid fully discussed reasons for her actions.
(nor would i expect her to see me again if i was that vanilla about our meetings unless i had some damn good explanation)

Also watch how they treat others, not just you, as eventually how she treats others will be how you are treated

Good Luck

[luvmesumknicks]

Thanks. I do understand the feedback from all sides. All these things, including the incentive to go out and meet these guys from the agency, weighed on me as they happened, but if you automatically assume this is the case with all these girls, they'd all end up alone! Plus if you're a decent enough guy, you could win them over in some regard anyway.

I asked myself if it was the other way around and she came here to see me how I would act and how often I would see her. Knowing she lives maybe 20 minutes outside the heart of the city where I stayed and popping in and out wasn't exactly easy I gave a lot of the absence the benefit of the doubt, but I'll stress treating the next few weeks as a good gauge of where things stand. It'll be easy to determine interest level I'd say, and if things cool off, I can begin exploring better options on other sites.

[Irina-Rina]

Thank you for telling us your story. I also agree with majority that the best thing would be to move on, because this particular story may last for a long time without any result for you.
I am a Ukrainian woman, too (also from Kharkov, by coincidence). I have heard many similar stories about our women. Neither of them ended in anything worthy.
I also believe that now, after you had this experience, it is time for you to take a good look at your approach to selecting and meeting women. If you don't do this, you risk to get into similar situations again and again.
To me, the best indicator of woman's commitment in a relationship is her behavior, demonstrating her sincere interest in the man.
1. If she wants to be with you, what is her sister doing there all the time? (she could bring her sister to one or two meetings, but not to the first one and not to all of them)
2. When people live in different parts of the world and seriously consider an opportunity to unite, they should be discussing their future like crazy all of the time duting the short meeting (and online, too, by the way). Especially women, who are very practical and self-protective by nature. A woman who really considers moving to a new country will shower you with questions about life there and will be talking without a break about visiting your home country before making any serious decisions.
3. A man who seriously considers becoming a husband (which to a woman automatically means becoming a father, a supporting friend, a money maker, and a protector - all in one) should be able to demonstrate all these qualities to his woman at the very first meeting. A hard task, I know, but I have seen men do this, and those men were the winners.
Well, I could ramble more, but that would be too long. So, these are my 5c.

[BillyB]

Very good post Irina-Rina. Michael, you're at a young age of 25 and you still got a lot of life ahead of you. Most men on this forum didn't get it right the first time. You don't have to follow in our shoes. If it doesn't feel right, don't dedicate yourself to the girl.

[luvmesumknicks]

Here's me and their friend having fun together as a reference!

[BillyB]

Michael, what can you tell us about Kristina that would make her great wife material? Did she cook you some nice meals? When you learned her grandmother was ill at the club, did she ask to leave so she could see her grandmother or decided to stay and dance the night away?

[luvmesumknicks]

Michael, what can you tell us about Kristina that would make her great wife material? Did she cook you some nice meals? When you learned her grandmother was ill at the club, did she ask to leave so she could see her grandmother or decided to stay and dance the night away?

Talking to her actually goes very well in terms of on the phone and through email. We exchange a lot of music and youtube videos. We started using email so we could email and be able to actually send links. I still write her on the site once in a while if I have something to say but don't want to send two emails in a row, but I haven't seen her online on the site anymore so that's encouraging. Her behavior at the club to me wasn't congruent with a girl trying to hook a guy so to speak. Yet if I did something wrong or repulsed her in any way she still initiated contact after and has since outside of any revenue generating avenue. So like I said, I'm being very cautious in the next few weeks to gauge the mood of our interactions. I don't want to necessarily jump to the wrong conclusion.

However I'm pleasantly surprised at the support and encouragement I am getting from you all to do this right and to not mess up by jumping in the deep end with the first girl and awarding bad behavior. I appreciate all of the feedback.

[BillyB]

You haven't said anything that would make her great wife material. A guy should get a sense of the kind a wife a woman would make after his first visit. You mentioned earlier you wrote to only 2 women because of the costs of the AnastasiaDate affiliate were charging you for ongoing communications. Sign up for Mamba.ru  Make sure you click English so you can navigate the site. It's free and you can write to tons of ladies there. You might find a lady that's a world of difference from Kristina.




It's hard to let someone go, especially when you have a heart and invested time and money into a girl but you got to look out for yourself and choose the best possible person to compliment your life. I've let go of much more women than women let go of me. I don't feel guilty doing that since I know each time I do that, I'll be a step closer to a better woman. You want to still talk to Kristina, do so but understand your trip wasn't a home run and you're entitled to search for better if Kristina didn't meet all expectations so give Mamba.ru a chance.